229. The 3 Metrics that Matters to Guarantee Profitability

0:00Most agency owners think pain employees more will kill their margin, but today's guest believes the opposite and has built and sold multiple agencies proving it. NicaVaria started by fixing broken agencies after leaving a $100 million dollar company. What began as consulting turned into running teams acquiring struggling agencies and scaling them using one core belief. The fastest way to grow profit isn't better tactics, it's better paid people. I'm Ryan Ackinson and you're listening to help the podcast where we uncover the secret to building and running successful businesses and I am so excited to welcome Nick here today to talk about how you can scale an agency to $1 million by paying above market it actually increases profits and so much more so Nick thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me Ryan I'm excited to be here. Yeah it's going to be so good and if someone's hearing you for the first time like okay who is this Nick guy give us a quick 30 second background just so people can understand you a little bit more than we're going to dive into all the good stuff. Totally so like yeah like quick 30 seconder I'm a guy that actually started kind of in like almost like an internal management consulting role in this like really large like industrial

1:02services business I was working directly with like the vice president of sales and marketing the COO CFO etc and we ended up doing like a bunch of like mergers and acquisitions in that space so like learn to analyze business real well fast forward a few years because like I did a bunch of entrepreneurship between then agency grew my own agency sold part of it became part of another one we did a bunch of M&A there left that agency went on to found my second agency that was like solo did some acquisition there as well and basically what my whole takeaway has been time and time again is exactly the intro like pay people more to get out of the day-to-day business my core belief that like agencies are I love them because they are places where like having a good culture and treating people well is like a requirement and I really like that about agencies like having come from like the industrial services background like it's like really rough around the edges people aren't kind to each other and agencies it's just like a much nicer place to be and I want to work

2:04with nice people I like it let's actually dive into first about paying people above market why does that actually help people instead of like killing markets that way here here you know paying someone $100,000 instead of $60,000 I mean that takes $40,000 away from profit so I mean push back on me there I mean how is that actually going to increase profits for someone that's listening first of all there's like a second element that maybe that's the second thing we talk about but it forces you to charge more for your services to be able to afford the person in the first place which is in my opinion not the wrong thing so like we can talk about why that's the right thing later but ultimately the other benefits of this is like well how much management do you need to give somebody that you pay $60,000 to versus like a hundred and how much supervision does 100% the caper year person need versus like 150 or two or three and you start figuring out pretty quick that the curve like if you think about this on a curve the amount of time that people need for you to invest in them to actually get them to produce like outsized outcomes like revenue

3:06profitability wise as you go up the ladder of how much you pay the amount of time falls but not in a linear fashion it's actually way faster than that right so like somebody that you pay 200K a year versus somebody that you pay 50K a year do you manage that 50K a person per year four times as much as the 200K person per year it's like no you probably manage them even less not only that but they're probably telling you what to do so they're actually like inverse managing you it's like they're actually telling you what to do and saving you time rather than you know you having to like burn the midnight oil because this person at 50K a year screwed up and I need to salvage the work and now you stop selling because you've got to fix the work and now you're kind of caught in this like eternal put out fires place and on the hamster wheel and you're getting nowhere fast talk to me about this though so someone's going to start an agency from grounds euro um obviously the fact you're going to have to do some stuff you know early on but like hire like one or two

4:06are you saying like someone should be going after that 200K person opposed to like a 50K person or is there like kind of steps you need to like get there so the answer is it depends okay this all almost touches into the second point around like maximizing dollar per hour like look if you're good at what you do and because this is why you open an agency right you open an agency because you're good at something and you should be probably not just good you should probably be exceptional the fastest way to become a highly scalable business is to start it off the opposite meaning like non-scalable what does that mean that means that you are the product and you are the delivery mechanism of that product for as long as possible this is where people get this wrong though they price their services in a way where it's like okay well if I were to hire somebody else I can still charge this amount and that's the wrong way of thinking about it the first thing you need to do is just push up the price as much as possible because you should be exceptional meaning like you do better work than the majority of the market therefore if the majority of the market is charging

5:073k a month or 5k a month or depends on the service mix that you have you should be charging well above that and the reason that people are going to pay you that is because you have a certain reputation around like being great at what it is that you do the ultimate truth of how much you can charge for the services of an agency it's fundamentally anchored to that founder and what they can do let me give you an example I've worked with agency owners that for their own time if you want them on a call to consult etc it's anywhere between a thousand to two thousand dollars USD per hour right wow what they charge for their own agencies time like meaning like hey like somebody that I trained etc it's 300 bucks an hour and they get it because it's anchored to the fact that they charge two thousand dollars an hour now if we're example the founder charges five hundred dollars maybe even like three hundred dollars an hour why would somebody else pay the person beneath you 200 you know what I mean and the relationship isn't one to one so it's not like oh you know

6:08whatever the founder charges you can charge like 30% or whatever that's not how it works there's a diminishing returns thing that goes on but at the beginning when you're trying to launch your first order of business is charge as much as possible to create the margin so that therefore you can hire somebody that maybe isn't 200k but as somebody that is so independent that when you hire them they require very little of your management and you can teach them how you do things now are you going to be able to charge as much for what they do versus you doing it no but it's still going to be ideally above market of what everybody else does and like you basically have to create the margin room to do this and this is the number one way that I know how to do it yeah I want to talk about like pushing pricing up because it's something that we're dealing with our own agency we're like we had packages of like 12,000 14,000 16,000 and like our win rate was like 50% on like a 16k package like it was absurd I was like well we just can't keep doing that so our new price is like 14k 19k and 24k so they went up slightly close rates are starting to like definitely fall on that

7:15but like how do you measure pricing and if you're like pricing too high or like not pricing enough like what metrics are you looking at like what advice would you have for me on that because that's what we're currently like look I have this like like I call it like the 3030 rule right and when you're getting into prices like you're talking about like the half of the 30 is probably taking care of really well and the other 30 maybe I don't know based off your current increase so the 3030 rule is simple is the product and service that you're delivering 30% delivery cost meaning like 70% margin after like direct costs so like your direct cost to deliver that thing is 30% or less that's the first half of the 3030 rule at those prices you can definitely massage it the hours etc so like get there and if you can't like you have an operational problem at that point so like you got to figure that out okay the other half of the 3030 rule is close percentage so like you said we were closing 50% so I pushed prices up that is actually the 3030 rule in action if your close rates between 30 and 40% once you get to like the north side of

8:18that range like 35% plus it may be time to increase prices like for me if I see like a 40% closer and I'm like yeah price increase time like here we go because especially like if you have like a reasonable pipeline right like if you have a few leads like you don't need like you know hundreds of leads a month or anything but like even if you have like 10 leads like a month and you're closing you know of the sales qualified ones and by the way there's an important distinction this is 30% close rate of sales qualified leads not marketing qualified leads so like if you get 20 leads and and then you're like oh I'm only closing 25% but your sales qualified leads are like half of that or less it's based off of sales qualified leads in terms of divisor so like if you're closing you know five of 10 sales qualified leads that's 50% like you have to push your prices up and you keep doing that until you hit like 3035% like that's the math are you ready to launch grow and scale a business inside the uplipacademy you'll get a complete roadmap to shortcut your success

9:18with 25 plus step-by-step programs taught by active business owners not gurus who share their step-by-step blueprints plus ongoing live workshops skills training a business idea database and community to share resources and celebrate your wins click the link in the description below to join the uplipacademy today and start surrounding yourself with the people and tools that can change everything for your business. I'm literally working through this today I'm talking about co-founder literally in an hour like this is not a joke that's what like the close rates that like I'm gonna like I want to be around like that 25 to 30% but hit on the marketing qualified leads in the sales qualified lead a little bit deeper because I know pretty well what you're saying but our audience might what is the two distinction of it because I love that you're saying that it's literally how I think about it today so I love that you said that the marketing qualified leads are mean like any lead that comes your way right one way or another like if it's inbound if it's outbound like it changes in definition a bit like I mean like it's not technically and marketing qualified lead at that point it's more like an interested party but if it's inbound marketing

10:20qualified lead is every single lead the sales qualified leads are people that follow your ideal client profile like your ICP and that have needs so like ICP is not enough and like look a lot of people get their sales qualified deaf leads definition wrong they're like oh this person's like part of target audience it's like but do they have need do they have budget like if there's more than one element to this and so your sales qualified criteria should be pretty tight and like why people generally loosen the sales qualified criteria is because they look at their marketing funnel and they say oh well only 20% of our leads are sales qualified like let's expand what sales qualified means so that we don't feel bad about the fact that only two and 10 leads are viable but guess what like it depends on your funnel like if you have like a very content and personal brand focus funnel yeah you're gonna get like sales qualified leads at a much higher rate but if you're doing like YouTube ads and like Facebook ads and like things that are a lot colder in general 10 to 30% is sort of like the average that I've seen across like multiple agencies yeah that's

11:24where I was gonna ask that we're like a video marketing agency and so obviously I didn't reinvent the wheel here like we do like product demos like explainer videos like those types of videos so I would say like our goal every month is to book like honestly like 40 meetings like a month and like we can like hit that like actually pretty well but like what percentage of that do you think should actually be like a sales qualifies that 10 to 30% then or break that down for me and yeah oh if you're 10 to 30% yeah I mean like but by the way like it depends on how you get the lead so like so to me like for example like if it's a personal brand that's generating the leads it's like your sales qualified should probably be like I mean truly anywhere between like 30 and 50% it's just naturally at higher if it's like Google Facebook like VSL's like you know like video sales that are etc like it's gonna be at a lower rate right why primarily because of budget once you like eliminate the budget side generally people are gonna qualify more often the not but not all the time the other thing I would say is like price dependent so like look if if any agency has

12:27like a two to three k product your sales qualified definition is way broader than somebody charging you know 10 or 20k a month it's just obvious because of budgetary constraint it's interesting because like since we pushed our pricing up to like 14k for like two videos essentially like 7k a video people have been like coming in a lot more like can I actually just like get started with one video at a lower price point it's an interesting problem because we never really had it before we like raise prices so would you have any like advice on like how to think about that problem where like people I get I'm throwing this all at you on the spot here but any advice there's two fundamental challenges right it's like this could be a sales challenge in terms of how it's packaged so like you're not necessarily getting a objection like this is not like a like a straight-up objection but how I think about sales and by the way I'm not that good of a salesperson so but I still consider what you just said an objection right because it's not necessarily they don't want to buy they just don't want to buy what you're telling them to buy which is effectively an objection the problem is is that the question comes up in the first place so how I would approach it

13:32is actually like maybe overly simplistic and maybe not in the scope of what you're asking but how I would solve it is hey we sell a package of two the reason is is because like B-roll synergies dada dada dada dada like all of these synergies that like it's like we're able to take these elements so if you want to it's 14 and like then it would would be like I would straight-up give people the option to do one it's just that like one is like 11 or like 10 or whatever right because it's like hey like getting the editor to edit two videos it's faster than editing one so they need to understand that and so like either A show them the price for one from the get go and have like a pricing matrix of like here's our pricing matrix number one or number two it's like you need to talk them through your process which is like your unique process and how you're able to render the value in the way that you're able to render it so like the question is never asked to me like any kind of sales objection is like what are we doing wrong that the question is asked in the first place like that's where my brain goes that's why I was working through last night because like when I'm packaging these together I was like okay obviously like I'm not

14:35conveying the value here like somehow like I'm looking in before I'm looking outward on that it's something that you understand that they don't understand that's why the question is occurring that is super helpful I want to ask them of course I'm gonna get a lot of advice out of you to date Nick so how should we think about scaling so we did about 348 last year in 2025 it was about 128% increase from our first year in operation in 2024 first of all when you're below five million dollars in revenue never look at percentages they make you feel good but they're not real I also know that but it does make me feel good so I'm gonna say it so how would you think about you know getting an additional 700k in revenue this year with like go to market either your customer's retention I know you're really big on that referrals the first question I would ask you based over your current system because you're closing at such a high rate is like well how much is the re-buy rate and or is there some sort of like product or service that you're tacking on that creates monthly recurring revenue in any way shape or form right because like here's the thing like like look I don't know the details of your business and depth but if every single client comes in by something

15:37and then leaves if you're trying to create a one million dollar agency that means that you need to sell a million dollars and if you like per year and then if you need one a two million dollar agency you have to sell two million dollars per year but if you have a business that you know for example is fully monthly recurring then it's a question about like client retention and so if you sell a million dollars this year and you have a three-year retention next year you're gonna sell a million dollars again now you're gonna be at two and then next year you're gonna be at three right like that's how this works so like what's the monthly recurring revenue component that you currently have going on and what percentage of the business is that it's all retainers basically like you'll buy like a package of like six videos four videos like two videos essentially so there really is no like monthly recurring all like per month per what so basically like a two video package will expire within like four months a four video package will expire within like eight months and then a six video package will expire like within a year so the reoccurring like honestly isn't great I know it's a challenge like of our business it's not recurring it's all you've done is like put term limits on a on a project basis exactly yeah it's not reoccurring I

16:41agree with that 100% like I don't think it's reoccurring at all so like is our biggest challenge like that we don't have reoccurring how you need to figure out the recurring element and put it into place or you need to figure out how to like absolutely make it rain leads okay fair it's like look as I'm not telling you that going project is not in the cards I have seen agencies doing like five six million dollars a year on a project basis only but they are like sales and marketing machines and the first question I asked them I'm like why like why are you doing this to yourself like they're like well it's work it's not broken we're making good money but we want to grow and like we can't grow more and like you know we've thrown the you know we've thrown like everything at like sales and marketing and like we installed now so now we're doing monthly recurring revenue I'm like you should done this like you know 80% ago when you were like a million bucks I was having this conversation the person before I told you that recommend the emeth you saw me yesterday about like a flooring company where they're like well they're a flooring company but like really

17:44there are sales and marketing company that like just happens to do flooring they're just kick ass at sales and marketing that's why they do like a billion dollars when I mean I was like that's kind of like my agency so yeah that's I think our problem is like we need to rain leads as you basically said to reach like a million revenue there's really no other way if we don't have like a reoccurring model there and to be frank like I mean the question is do you want to be a sales and marketing organization or do you want to be a product like do you want to be excellent at the product you deliver and by the way this is a strategic decision for sure yeah to me like look like I have a client that has sub 1% turn monthly like sub 1% monthly revenue which is insane okay in fact their actual numbers are 0.65% per month oh my gosh that's crazy for all of 2025 and the reason that this kind of approached me in 20 like late 2024 like I think it was like August or so 2024 they're like Nick you talk a lot about client retention we have a like we think we have a client turn problem I look and it was like 1.5% monthly turn and I'm like dude like best practice is below

18:482% like they're already you're crushing and the guys like can you help cut it down further I'm like all right like let's go through your systems I'm like I can improve it but like man like no promises sure enough like within you know three months we got the turn down to like I think it was q1.1% oh wow for q1 q2 it went up and it would like it basically average out to 0.65 on the year but like totally abnormal my point is this it's like how many deals that they really need to close to grow when you're losing that little revenue right and the answer's not a lot right because what we were really saying is that they lost 8% like because 0.65 times 12 they lost 8 less than 8% of their total revenue in the year by the way that's just like straight up looking at churn without considering upsells and referrals if we consider upsells and referrals which in my world I do they didn't but like because they're like that strict about it I was like guys you have

19:49negative churn because just the referrals and upsells accounted for more than that and then on top of that they did sales and marketing but they were doing sales and marketing at such a low level where it was like 3% of their budget and guess what like other agencies are spending 8 to 12% I know agency spending 12 to 16 or even like sometimes 20% plus on sales and marketing guess what happens when you're spending like 2 to 3% and you're still growing like that delta between like 20 and like 3 it's all going to the bottom line and it was right and so they're insanely profitable losing no clients and the guy was like oh well you know I sleep better at night knowing that our churn is low I'm like dude like you like you're telling me that 1.5% a month was keeping you up at night like and I'm like I've worked with people doing like 15 to 20% monthly churn right like that's you keep you up at night and like the reason I tell this story is because to me and like this is not wrong by the way if other people operate this way to me being a sales and marketing organization and putting a lot of the focus there means that you're not obsessed with a client

20:51delivering client retention and to me knowing that the average client is going to stay with me for like 3 plus years helps me sleep at night here's the thing like sales and marketing and especially in the agency space is streaky right meaning like you figure out how to generate leads from like Google for example and you go all in on that and then Google changes algorithm it's like bang it's not working anymore or like you figure out like this optimal VSL on you know meta and like you get a bunch of leads and then all of a meta changes its algorithm they launch a drama and like some of your ads work and they slowly start to taper off and not work and you need to figure out something else and it's like if you're a sales and marketing organization because of the world that we live in today unless you're generating your leads through like tending events in person roll a dex and like calling people or like outbound or or outbound email which is like people can do it and they can figure it out but again all of these things are so subject to these algorithms that we have no control over you're like one algorithm change away from your sales and marketing part of your organization completely going down in flames and like I can't sleep at night that way

21:55it's so funny because we were we were sending how we get like primary our leads is like basically sending like offer emails every day like it's probably a tribute of like over 80 percent of our revenue in 2025 but we were sending them through HubSpot originally August comes along boom open rates drop from 30% to legit like 5% and it's like we were scrambling to like get something we got like a new system up but it took like a month to like get it like back and run in like that's true to like what yeah how did that feel yeah it sucked imagine if every single one of your clients it's like you knew that every single one of your clients is gonna last three years how do you feel about your business out it's like I know what a business I want to run and like to be honest if it comes at the sacrifice of the sales and marketing engine it's like so be it because here's the thing like like people that open an agency they can get like 10 to 20 closes a year even if it's just like word of mouth networking you can get 10 to 20 closes a year you just got to put in the elbow grease right so it's like okay well what if every single client like look quick math every single clients 5K you close 20 of them that's 100k a month you're now a 1.2 million dollar agency it's insane

22:58that's literally crazy every client lasts for an average of three years that's like you're at 3 million bucks it's like that's the math it's not that hard and so like this is my entire thesis and by the way like how I came about this was that in my own agency at one point I did the mass and we were averaging 15% turn oh gosh I had like account managers so like this is the thing people like oh I know my turn rate and I'm like do you know your turn rate by account manager do you know your turn rate by sales rep why when I was averaging 15% turn I had one account manager that was doing sub 1.5% turn I think it was like 1.2 1.3% turn that's what she was doing and she had the lowest turn rate of everybody the person in second place had something like three or four percent and then I had somebody at eight then I had somebody else at like 12 and another person like 22 oh gosh 22% sure like this person was like evaporating like clients in like real time like as soon as they touched their hand right and so what did I do it's like I reverse

24:02engineered with a person doing like one and a half was doing right got all their stuff the person that was doing like like three to four I went in there too just to see if there was anything good going on and then I basically like said like okay now account managers are judged on churn your specific turn number not the company churn number like your book of business churn and like this how we're going to go about it and sure enough like some people that had really high churn left the business because they knew that the writing was on the wall and they didn't want to make the change and sure enough you know fast forward to like a few months later our churn was basically like sub two and a half percent across the board yeah well so how did you do that like what were some of the factors I mean for people that are under a few percent like there's really only like two macro factors and then there's probably like three sub factors in each so the two macro factors high level are people management and accountability and I'm going to get like deeper because like that's not helpful and the second one is like basically like the high level client retention systems okay so on the people management systems I swear by objective metric API so like

25:10what are the top objectives by role what are the metrics that measure the success of that objective and what are the KPIs that measure the likelihood of success of the metrics so for everybody out there like look people use KPIs and metrics interchangeably as names but that is not correct okay a metric is something that is closely related to money that happened in the rear view mirror so it's already behind you it happened it's immovable a KPI if you spell out the actual acronym is key performance indicator it's an indicator of performance it is not actual performance a metric is actual performance so that role of the KPI is to show you what is the likelihood that the metric coming up is going to be favorable right so let me break this down into like an actual example for my account managers I had objective number one be client retention okay so that's the objective

26:10how do we measure that objective what is our metric okay we're going to measure this by client churn revenue based by account manager that's the metric what is the KPI like what is the thing that can signal to us that that metric is going to be good or bad net promoter score right like how likely how basically it's like right like net promoter score is like scale of 1 to 10 how happy are you with us nine or 10 they're super happy seven and eights are considered neutrals and an mps score and sixes and below's are like they're going to leave so now if somebody gives you a nine or a 10 you have a reasonable chance of retaining these people for the long run meaning like the churn metric is like generally safe but if a whole bunch of people start scoring you five and six is you're like uh oh the metric is about to get bad and you know that before it actually happens so you basically you know line up three four of these objectives per roll and then you have a metric based dashboard and a KPI based dashboard why the metric based dashboard is actual performance

27:13you judge people's performance on the metrics the KPI's you do not judge people on KPI because it's not actual performance it's indicators of performance and it's a basically a future facing dashboard so you need to divide dashboards between past facing what actually happened versus future facing what's about to happen and unsurprisingly when you have both it's almost impossible to fail because if you can predict the future like how hard is it to manage against it if you know what's coming your way yeah it's uh I think like the metric is the biggest thing I feel like that's where potentially meaning correct my wrong where a lot of agencies go wrong especially when it's getting started is like knowing they measure the wrong it's not that they're not measuring things is that they measure the wrong thing I'm gonna kind of put you in a tight little bundle here if they can only measure like two metrics to start out is it turn what are like the two metrics you must know for your first 500 day okay I'm gonna go totally off the rails here and tell you like as an agency owner like if you if it's your like metric this isn't even like this is early a metric but

28:13it's like cash like look at your bank here on every day like that's the number one thing you need to manage like learn it learn the patterns of it how does it fluctuate like week to week month to month quarter to quarter you need to learn how this thing like moves because it moves differently for every business and you need to be like in tune with that number one but to answer I think what the true spirit of the question is client retention definitely number one and I'm not gonna tell give you two I'm gonna give you like what I called the golden triangle of like objectives and this is primarily for billable people and or people that are client facing client retention objective number one objective number two is client results objective number three is productivity those are the top three why if you have good client retention and you have good client results and you have good productivity impossible to lose money very scalable organization because you retain people for a long time if you have great client retention and great client results but you have bad productivity you can maybe retain revenue for a long time but maybe you're not making any money if you have good client retention for now bad client results good

29:17productivity you're profitable but even though your client retention looks good now because the client results aren't that good they're gonna leave you with your retention's about to look bad right and if you have like good client results and good productivity you're profitable and you're getting client good results but they don't know it and therefore your client retention's bad because it's like if your client written results are good and productivity's good and the clients like leaving you it's like why if the results are good because you haven't been able to figure out how to communicate the value of what we offer and by the way this is why it's measured separately from client results in my mind because people are like oh aren't client results retention it's like no there it's not I've seen so many agencies that provide well above market results for their clients and clients leave them because the clients don't understand the value that they're getting because they're the mechanisms aren't in place to actually show people and that actually leads me to that second macro item which is like client retention systems right client retention systems isn't just like get results like client retention systems is like outside

30:20of the product it's like how do you deliver this how do you communicate to people and like there's three big items under client retention systems to me it's about having a very equal balance of client expectations setting client experience and education for the client those three things will predict how long clients stay with you and generally agencies are bad at like two of the three yeah I like it there's a lot to take away from this this conversation is fascinating for me in the sense of like you know like sometimes I think I know like what I'm doing but then I have a conversation like this it's like well I actually have a boat low to learn so I want to thank you for that Nick I want to jump to our fan blitz questions you and these are your questions submitted from our community or service if you want to join our world class entrepreneurs go email us at podcast at uplip.com and get your questions submitted there but ready for our last five year Nick yep what's the fastest mistake you see new agency owners make that kills momentum early hiring too late and hiring too early hit the Goldilocks zone if you had to cut an agency down to just two

31:25priorities on the road to one million what would it be stick to one offer if you can sell it five times you can sell it a hundred times don't fiddle around with the offer number one number two push the price up as much as possible before you hire what's one piece of common agency advice you can completely disagree with sales fixes everything it just scales problems like that that's the one what's the decision you see founders delay way too long that cost them their first million spending real money on a second in command so like if they're the primary founder spending like good money on like a second in command that can up like in the second in command and like for your first hire can take a lot of different forms it could be your head of accounts your head of delivery they should not be the head of marketing nor the head of sales there's a huge premium on founder like founder led sales close at a much higher rate so never outsource sales or marketing it's either client it's an account director role or it's generally like the service role and then after you have one of those two taking care of the second person can either be the opposite or

32:28an operations role last one for you if you're starting agency tomorrow what's the first thing you do in the first 30 days I'd figure out my offer I would pick an offer that has a naturally leaning higher lifetime value not all offers have naturally occurring higher lifetime values I would probably start some sort of like content agency because content people are willing to wait for results Nick this was amazing thank you so much for your time today it sounds like oh my gosh I need to learn more about Nick check out his website where can they connect with you and do so at agency acquisitions.io or you can find me at Nick Averia on LinkedIn and also be leaving behind a free training that I give people it's five hours on how to delegate basically it's like how to get yourself out of the day-to-day of your business and so you can work on your business and focus on scaling it rather than putting out fires all day long so I'll leave that link behind as well. Aaron that was amazing episode with Nick three quick takeaways for you number one push price as much as possible early on that's higher than you'll be able to hire for your first individual

33:31number two reoccurring revenue is everything when you're building an agency you gave me that feedback that I need to change to reoccurring I absolutely love that feedback and the number three cash and client retention those are two very important metrics you need to know when you're disking started what is your cash flow what is also your client retention guys who join this podcast please give us a five-star rating wherever you get your podcast and give us some feedback at ryan at upflip.com looking forward to seeing me all next Monday Nick thank you so much for your time today thank you