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0:00The inter-retake synonymous expected to turn the right of the bat when Stafford declares that Britain lacks the wherewithal to tackle a project like Cybersinn. Britain takes it a step further by calling his fellow Brit's ship, yes that's the very word he's using. And it only gets stranger from there. As it was not a friendly interview, I was clear that I began to raise some questions. Joe Hanlon views Cybersinn through a lens of radical laftest militancy, perceiving it as excessively top-down, illiterate and quite disconnected from the masses. It's probably how someone from Mir that radical laftest Chilean movement would view a project like this. The whole key was that what Stafford Beer was doing and what he said he was doing was

1:03in secret so that he was not using it as a mobilizing tool. Of course I end up may have been better served by a grassroots cybernetic social network, a proto twitter or Facebook of some kind. And there's top-down operations room of Project Cybersinn, but sadly it wasn't really an option in 1973. And for radical laftest, including Joe Hanlon from the new scientist, this lack of mobilization is what doomed not just this project, but I end this regime as a whole. Unless you have community support, unless you mobilize, you can't work in secret because you don't have a base. And what the CIA understood is they could do it better than Stafford Beer could. Joe Hanlon doesn't mean swords and historical articles, and they aren't exactly what Stafford had in mind when he sought out positive media coverage.

2:04Few people, Joe writes, have ever had as much power to give a Stafford beer. He has chosen to give it not to the people, but to a government he approves of. End of quote. His verdict, Stafford Beer is the, and I'm quoting, the super tacitard of them all. Well, that must hurt. So, when the big day of the lecture comes, Stafford doesn't really know what to expect. As he pulls up to the bright and lecturing his luxurious rose-roise, he finds himself in a halt bit of radicalism. This town is buzzing with students like Mike Hales, students who are researching the very politics of experts such as Stafford Beer. In Mike's eyes, this scientist Iain Denial about the immense power that they possess. I'm a working class kid. I grew up in a declining industrial town in Yorkshire.

3:05I didn't know anything about the middle class professional people. Mike Hales sits among the sea of attendees at that bright and lecture. It's not the most welcoming of species. So it was in big lecture theatre in the bright and polite technique. Huge great cavernous, conventional kind of hall, high stage, dark. As Mike takes in, he surroundings, he comes how but feel a sense of gloominess. Gloominess that permeates the lecture hall itself. I wouldn't have liked to win a speaker in that place, but that's not a thing that would be done Stafford Beer because he's a big man with a big voice and lots of charisma. So he would just be projecting like mad into that space, being completely messianic with his message about how he got a machine for saving the world. The lecture goes off without a hitch, but the question and answer session quickly becomes contentious when you'll be here as among those in attendance.

4:09He was crowded and it had a very hostile reception. I mean, I'd no idea what was going on, but people were quite aggressive with him from the floor, from the question time. When you let it calls that some members of the audience found the cybersome story to be implausible, even questioned whether it was just a figment of a father's imagination. I just remember there was some doubt about the existence of the whole project and some woman seemed to be saying that she'd been there and it hadn't happened or something. So as the Q&A session hits up, British academic, who's also an advisor to the Chilean government, poses an almost insulting question to Stafford. I remember Stafford saying, you know, you wait till you have enemies darling, they're telling me that I never did any of this. And you know, he had a great deal of proof that he had been in Chile.

5:13Stafford's encounter with the academic will have long-lasting repercussions. Her insinuations about Cybersinn will even come back to harm him when he returns to Chile. Now the lecture is over. Stafford and Mike Kales retired to a nearby pub. The Mike hopes to interview Stafford for his dissertation. And Stafford uses the occasion to deliver a pitch that Mike has heard countless times before. As Mike notes, consultants like Stafford just love to emphasize their outsider status. Basically their concern was that society didn't take enough notice of science and they wanted to see a society that was run on more scientific lines. It's a tale as all this time. Historical scientists think that they have all this groundbreaking ideas, ideas that could shake up the entire system. But as their work gains more attention, many of these experts succumb to a dangerous temptation. The temptation to work with the corporations or the military.

6:15And before we know it, they are no longer the age radicals they once were. They were the lightest players in that game of being radical, but only until their practice became mainstream. Mike's conclusions echo those of Johanland. Saberson is conceived and executed by Chile's technical unit with no real concern for the workers' own interests. There was given an opening in Chile because there was a large professional marginal class of scientists and engineers in Chile who not only had the year of the president I end there, he was a member of that class. Mike has a point here. Why and his ideas do sometimes smack of technocracy? Perhaps it's his background in Madison that has left residual influence. Joshua Fred String explains how the technocratic and scientific dynamic play out in one peculiar domain, that of food and nutrition. Ayanne was part of a generation of medical experts, part of a group of a scientific community,

7:26particularly in the area of nutrition, that tried to make food simply an agglomeration of micronutrients or of calories, of protein, of vitamins, and essentially lost sight of the essential cultural and social significance that particular foods had throughout Chilean history. The government's much-tourant nutrition campaign, a campaign aimed to have people eat more frozen fish, offers a very good illustration of this. Despite the campaign's best efforts, the public remains extremely reluctant to consume this frozen fish. It's another case of government paternalism falling somewhat short of expectations. The language of science, at least the language of science alone, is not enough to change

8:26entrenched cultural attitudes. This fish is not exactly a culinary hit. It is certainly not anything like beef, and even though both are very high in protein, it's something that most Chilean consumers are quite averse to actually purchasing and serving to their families. The government, including the Santiago Bois, of course, pay us to appreciate this subtleties. Yes, sure, they're scientists and engineers, not cultural anthropologists. Still, some more attention to the subtleties of human psychology would probably have earned them deeper respect among the working classes. The critique of Cybersine that is emerging from the British left is not to be dismissed so easily. Is Stafford's Sabinetic Wanderland truly empowering for the workers? Or is it merely a technocratic charade? While Stafford's vision of popular power is certainly something to admire, it also

9:31has a share of political blind spots. Doesn't it reduce workers to trivial positions? Are they supposed to be knowledge contributors to his flowcharts and nothing more? Or mere button pushers who are stuck in the operations room? That old setup feels more like a superficial nod to democracy, not a system that genuinely values workers' wants and needs. And one of Stafford's mammoths to the team come across as patronizing. Show the workers how to make quantified flowcharts. The thing is immediately obvious. They can do it. They will see its value because it is a good way of thinking about the plant. But is this thing immediately obvious? And is this really a good way of thinking about the plant? It says who? Another question that comes to mind is this. How much control do the workers have over the design of Cybersinn? For one, Stafford beards the one deciding how many chairs and screens go into the operations

10:32room. He also decides what buttons they can push. But what if they don't need that room at all? What if they have better ideas for using chillist cars' computer resources? But Stafford of course doesn't really ask workers for their opinions on these issues. No, he prefers to answer all these questions himself, sitting by his golf-ish pool and his mansion and assuming that he knows everything. But is that really so? When I'm more serious now, Stafford and I end up do share common belief in the need to guide workers, to guide them towards their own liberation. But why I end up acknowledging the political nature of his leadership, workers after all can get rid of him anytime they want. Stafford presents his technical expertise as a political, eternal and grounded in science. His advice on the restructuring is a workplace. He's supposed to be self-evidently valid and true. But how do we know what makes a good workplace? Is it something that we can measure and test with scientific methods, with cybernatics

11:35and all these other techniques he's using? Is it something that depends solely on our values and our interests? And who gets to decide what counts as a good workplace to begin with? So let's face it, Stafford doesn't really ponder all the politics behind Saberson. To him, Sabonatics is the panacea for all work issues and they will certainly embrace it the moment they realize just how good it is. At best, he's quite a bit naive, as that mama we said it earlier suggests. We have started a process by which the workers will ask us for cybersinn. If a worker is operating an old fashioned machine and he hears about a better one, he usually demands it. Then it is not imposed on him by technocrats. Other members of the team are also not really inquiring into the project's politics. Harole Spacho admits as much today. All the arguments of cybersinn and all the, shall we say, the ideology that is behind cybersinn

12:47is something that wasn't clear to Stafford or to me or to anybody else. That was clearly something where he was weak and if he was weak in that I was several times weaker. So it's no shock that Stafford beer shrugs off Mike's criticisms in that Brighton pop. When I was questioned out, he put out his last cigar and went outside and got into his roll's rice and drove off back to the stockbroker belt in the Tim's Valley. But despite putting up a brave face, Stafford is more wounded by that lecture than he cares to admit. In the Rathras pack, this is how he would reflect on that experience. Perhaps the reputation that what I was doing in Chile was a piece of mad technocracy centralizing all decisions and betraying the people by computer began with that false lecture.

13:49I have been in trouble with this canar ever since. Well next time he's going to speak to radicals, he should probably leave his rolls behind and rant the folks fucking battle. Meanwhile back in Santiago, the Prashewnai and the Ritchie's a fever pitch, as he faces yet another political inferno. Remember Mappu, the political party that is a crucial element in his coalition and something over heaven for the Santiago boys? Well now it's torn apart by a bitter dispute over ideology and tactics. Journal of Flores and the moderates push for a continued alliance with Ayende while the radicals demand a more work-oriented approach. The usual conflict of course that has been tearing apart Ayende's administration since the very beginning. Here's how Gabriel Rodriguez remembers those intense debates. The problem was that inside Mappu, all the groups of militants from the South, mainly

14:50from conception, influenced obviously by it mere, were in the positions similar to the socialists. The popular unity coalition is of course still popular, but it's hard to notice that there is less and less unity in his ranks. But amidst all this chaos and uncertainty, another glim of hope emerges and from America of all places. The setup is finally ready to hold hearings on ITT and CIA's involvement in Chile. So tensions predictably are running high. Behind the scenes there is a growing sense of an ease, with mainly inside the US government worrying about the fallout. Just how much classified information would be revealed about America's own role in first preventing Ayende's victory and then in destabilizing his government. The reason however won't let that pass.

15:51The White House lawyers are using every trick to block the release of the most sensitive documents. Documents that could compromise Kissinger, Nixon and the CIA. The secret documents, arguing some lawyers, are protected by the so-called executive privilege. The public is not entitled to see them, but let us not forget the irony of the situation here. While Chile is being criticized for the secretive project Cybersinn, Nixon is invoking executive privilege to keep his own administration's discussions fully confidential. Who is the real big brother here? As the long awaited hearings begin, it's not all good news for beer and ayende. Only in the American capital greed their projects with plenty of skepticism, if not outright opposition. Around this time, something else happens.

16:54A powerful Washington insider launches a blistering attack on Cybersinn, and he does so on the pages of the new scientists with his admits a letter. So this prominent figure at the National Bureau of Standards doubts the very existence of Cybersinn. And even if it does exist, he argues, it's nothing short of monsters. But Stafford is not taking this attack lying down. He publishes a bold response in the same pages. He's not just a data banker or a matrix inverter, insist. He's a cybernetician, and he's not going to be dismissed to undermine so easily. He writes, and I quote, perhaps it's intolerable to sit in Washington DC and to realize that someone else got there first in a Marxist country on a shoestring. End of quote. The initial public exchange within Stafford and this Washington critic has no move to private correspondence. Here's Stafford, writing to that scientist. Please stop being so unpleasant and hear a few facts.

17:57Chile is trying to get its economy running in the face of intense opposition and even sabotage. Iyend is policy is to do this by devolving power as fast as possible to the people. Stafford goes out of his way to clarify the challenges that are standing in Iyend's way. How does a group of workers run a factory? When its communications have been broken, its record stolen, and it has no orthodox management card. How can factories get computer assistance when there is no foreign exchange to buy them computers? How can science be handed to the people instead of being used to exploit them? But just when it seemed like things couldn't get any worse, this Washington critic commits a major fall power. He compares Stafford and Fernando to this other tag-mavens, the much-hated bosses of

18:58ITT, this sends beer into a rage and he responds in kind. You have no more basis to compare florists and beer with Janine and Macone than I have to compare you with Stalin. The back and forth between Stafford and this critical scientist, the so-called Stalin from Washington, stops shortly thereafter. It's hard to believe but some challenge, cyber-sense existence, even after a single operations room with their own eyes. One visiting American professor is particularly baffled. A role is pothole is puzzled by his reaction. He came saying, everything you are saying is a lie. That couldn't have happened. And I thought, Christ, this guy is not a very friendly one. Some of the end his own officials are starting to have doubts about the practicality of

20:00this project. Among them is Sergei Bitar, the minister of mining. Sergei is part of the wider universe of the Santiago boys and he's even worked at the core for early in his career. He knows quite a few things about planning. But as he gazes upon the intricate web of wires and machines that make up Cybersinn, he's going to help but marvel at this cutting-edge technology. The complexity of the system is staggering, but what purposes does it serve? A Sergio contemplates its application to his own managerial routine. He finds himself at a bit of a loss. In a chili-wrecked turmoil and upheaval, he cannot really grasp how it could be of any practical use to anyone. I knew that that was an exotic experiment in a quite different reality.

21:04It's a sobering realization. Three months have passed since I end this visit, he had the operations room remains eerily quiet. Does anyone really need it at all? Raul's talc's message to Stafford drives the point home. He useless to tell you that the operations room is not being used, as what he says. First of all, even the chair's ergonomic arm rests are left untouched, without a whiskey glass anyway inside. Just when Stafford sawed that he had survived the media storm, the British radicals go for the Jaguular and prepare their final push. Now the attacking Cybersinn in another publication, Science for People. This magazine, a breeding ground for radical scientists and engineers, holds nothing back. They even call Cybersinn a quote, a computerized model of tyranny. Ouch. Cybersinn, they argue, and again I'm quoting, will concentrate power in the hands of those

22:07who control the control room. My case is that it remembers that's thinking critique. It was basically what about workers? Yeah, beer doesn't seem to realize that he's not empowering working people. He doesn't seem to realize that he's just empowering the management. Stafford's friend Jonathan Rosenhav is probably feeling a little rat-faced. After all, he's the one to have brokered the initial meeting between Stafford and the Science for People crowd. The encounter that led to that ill-fated article. They saw Stafford as some kind of big capitalist who drank whiskey from a hip-flash, and smoked cigars, had a Rolls-Royce, had a big stockbroke about Harris and all of those sort of things. So they had some, possibly some tension against it anyhow. This and the other boys are feeling frustrated with the latest drama. But this time it's harsh critique coming from fellow scientists, from fellow engineers.

23:08It's a critique that they cannot just ignore. Carlos Santa is still fired up about the article 50 years later. They ride their Leistic thinking about science for people in a broad sense, in a broad sense, in no concrete sense at all, and you're nothing about the terrain itself, the ground in which we were. Even Stafford's wife Sally is upset about the article and tries to him saying that it makes her want to vomit. Stafford's response to the article was another fierce letter, suggesting that science for people should be renamed no science for people. Or science for people in theory only. The latter also campaigns jumps like this. If at this stage of human development, our only way of preserving liberty is to be so inefficient that no one, then or us, can exert any regular society, then our species is doomed. Any managerial revolution, such as I am trying to mount in Chile, offers any hope.

24:15Such arrogance is exactly what science for people called out is calling out in Stafford. Who does this wealthy Brit think he is, leading a socialist revolution in Chile? And who says that this revolution has to be managerial? And why is it Chile's only hope? Because Stafford's hubris, as a touch of cybernatics to it, doesn't make it any less repulsive. The media coverage of Stafford's work for Iyenda is also causing some ripples among the British elites. Like the leftist radicals, they too are scratching their heads over Sabisyn. But of course they're confused for entirely different reasons. We all look upon him as associates. This is Iyenda, Stafford's brother, who wrapped shoulders with the upper crust at the swanky dinner parties. He had cut out for himself a particular kind of figure, which was clearly not part of British society itself.

25:17And it was clear to us that he was happier in this extraordinary society which he found himself in in Chile. Even who supports Fanatic thinks he has come up with a perfect metaphor for Stafford's situation. He found a team to play with in Chile. He couldn't find a team to play with in England. Well this is stretching it quite a bit. We fear not everyone on the Chilean team is enamored with Stafford. There are plenty who would love to see him go. Perhaps he has already overstayed his welcome in the country. Remember the academic from his Brighton talk? Do you want to have a tax staffer during the Q&A? Stafford is convinced that she's still gunning for him, blabbering to have pals in the Chilean government that he's using Sabisyn only to pimp his own consulting gig. It isn't really a major offense and the dog eat dog business world, but I end the socialist supporters. It might seem like a cardinal sin.

26:17Who will add this shameless capitalist vampire inside the socialist shrine? This is the media whirlwind surrounding Sabisyn is beginning to fath. Chilean engineers come knocking on Stafford's door. They have some pressing questions. This engineer wants Stafford to address the recent media criticism and to explain the project to the Grammy. And he must do so in a big public talk. I talk that he fears will be a repetition of his disastrous lecture in Brighton. And of course it is. Here are Stafford's own recollections. The lecture should not have been given that I resisted giving it with all my might. The result was naturally disastrous. It was probably the worst address I ever made. Rulis Pacher was there too. These people were not Marxist engineers and they were not understanding the arguments of the project, nor the ideological points.

27:19They were deeply shocked. They called me partisan. Stafford would recall later. This whole thing is starting to feel like yet another multi-pitence catch. The science for people crowd are struggling to grasp Stafford's deeply confused political readings. While his Chilean naysayers are convinced that he's a socialist radical, someone who's abandoned all pretence of scientific neutrality to serve as a Yanders lab dog. Ironically Stafford has become an Iyanda-like figure, a figure besieged by opposing forces. The radicals find both of them too mild. The moderates and technocrats on the other hand, are convinced that these are determined Marxists who are keen on overturning the world order. But unlike Stafford, Iyanda is a crafty politician. He knows how to straddle that divide. He even benefits from all this ambiguity. Stafford on that other hand won't tolerate anything of the kind. He veers deeper and deeper towards the radical pole. So much so that his plunge into ultra-laftesb has left some wondering if he's in over his

28:24hat. After all, what is this wealthy man doing playing the radical? As the chorus of opposition to Cybersyn grows louder, Reuli is pushing for Fernando to go public with the details of the project. Such interventions he writes to Stafford and quote, would open the mystical black box, which, as a role, is today's image of the project. But perhaps Fernando wants this musical black box to remain close, and aura of cybernetic mystic has never hurt anyone. As the project's father figure, perhaps he knows that the more enigmatic it appears, the more cultural capital he himself accumulates. There are other problems too. The reality of Cybersyn's reception is harsh and Stafford may have anticipated, and the workers aren't exactly beating down Corpher's doors to get their hands on it. A role's assessment is that the workers, along with many other social groups familiar

29:26with the project, see Cybersyn as impractical and obscure. For them it's an example of, and quoting here, a refined technique alien to the country. Reality may be stronger than theory, as I am to himself claims. But theory so far is all that they've got. So I missed all the scales, Stafford writes a scazling essay. He means there's no words describing the project's results as utterly disastrous. The team he says isn't shambles, with personal attacks taking the place of productive work. And to add insult to injury, Stafford has lost faith in the children and the workers all together. Yes, the very forces that are funding this project. I can see no way of practical change that does not immediately affect the organisation of Corpher. I can see no way of practical change that does not very quickly damage the Chilean bureaucracy

30:29beyond repair. Without this change, this abinatic revolution is in jeopardy. If there is no politically realistic proposal in this area, then the revolution is not feasible in its current form. Does it take more courage to be a cyber-neutician and to be a government? But what will the cyber-neuticians do when the real government come out to play? The capital does Stafford know that he isn't the only Brit with such a keen interest in Chile. Deepened the shadows of the British government, a secretive unit has been dedicated to undermining the Iandis regime from the very start. It was basically designed as a propaganda unit within the foreign office to counter the threat of a global communism. This is Kevin John McEvoy, a British historian. He is an expert on the information research department, or IRD. It wasn't just about global communism, it was also about combating any kind of threat

31:33to British interest, commercial interest, strategic interest, political interest abroad. And those working for this unit, the IRD, are not at all afraid to leverage the soft power of the British media. In fact, they do so in the Middle East, in the early 1950s, where they use one of Britain's most important cultural assets for their geopolitical purposes. The BBC Persia, on behalf of the British state, was consistently disseminating messages that the Iranian people were not capable of adequately using their own oil. It should come as no surprise that BBC played a crucial role in the 1953 Iranian coup, a coup that sabotaged the government's plan to nationalize all reserves. In an effort to help that coup succeed, the BBC inserted an extra phrase into the regular broadcast. This is the call for the off-precies in Iran to get going into any shite coup. So back then, IRD was a very powerful player.

32:37And it was just the beginning of the involvement in some of the most significant political appeals of the 20th century. In Guatemala, the IRD laid the groundwork for the CIA-Ladrige change, using a combination of psychological tactics and propaganda. Nine years later, they would provide critical support to the CIA's Operation Mangos in Cuba, you've heard all about it in an early episode. And later, they would also back the anti-Jango groups in Brazil. After that 1964 coup, they would go on to take the efforts in Brazil to a whole new level, training Brazilians in brutal interrogation techniques. The same techniques that activists like the Brazilian engineer Carlos Sema would later be decrying in the anti-torture reports. So as you may have guessed by now, shortly before and after I end this election, this unit, IRD, was active in Chile.

33:38The main goal, this Troy I end this reputation. Inside their broader network was a CIA-funded company called Forum World Features, the Camrish and Alirico of its day. I discovered it while talking to Indy Baguette, who is a columnist for the Guardian. He wrote a very interesting book about British Chilean relations. While doing research for that book, Indy scored an interview with the elusive founder of Forum World Features. Once the initial coverage of the regime, which had been positive, began to fade, the British right wing press, and if you like the more clandestine press like Forum World Features started to disseminate these ideas about I&A as a kind of Soviet stooge, essentially. One day Indy paid a visit to his uncle, but the time was working as a journalist at the time of London. He had material that he'd been given, or been sent him at the times that was essentially material from Forum World Features, giving a kind of cold war perspective on the I&A

34:41regime, essentially, a former Black propaganda. So that's what other British consultants were doing in Chile during I&A. They were not there to promote the revolution of Red Wine and Empanadas. Now they flew from London to Santiago to put a bloody end to it. But with so much secret money, flowing to discredit I&A in his government in the British press. Is it a mere coincidence that so many of the London-based media outlets attacking Project Cybersinn? This sadly will probably remain a mystery until at least we see more of the still classified official documents. The effort, of course, doesn't know that there is the sustained British effort take down I&A. So he's naturally shocked by how the British media discussed Chile and his president. He finds their hostility toward a young man nothing short of scandalous. We have a tape of him, unfortunately not of the vast quality, voicing those frustrations.

35:47Now the whole of the rich world were being told that he was a disaster, that his policies would be inflationary and all the rest of it. I have never seen a more misrepresented thing in the media in all my life. It was outrageous. Chile has shown him something that Stafford Beer never expected to find out. What it feels like to be on the receiving end of a British civilizing mission and now he hates it more than anything. Stafford's past through life never pointed to this moment. He was meant to work against Ayende, not to help him stay afloat. In other words, this is a man cut out for something like IRD's propaganda mission and not for building cybernetic socialism. And yet he ends up on the other side of the barricades. It's interesting how his life took a most dramatic turn in the late 1960s, long before that faithful letter from Fernando Flores. As a hiring executive at IPC, a publishing empire was linked to the CIA itself, he was

36:50caught off guard when his boss tried and failed to bring down the British government. With time those events became a notorious chapter in British history. Some still are unable to believe that IPC's top boss, the press baron Cecil King, may have been pushing for a coup. Whatever it is Cecil King was trying to do, he failed. As his protégé, Stafford knew that his days at IPC were numbered. And he was right, soon he was shown the door. Undeterred though, Stafford became a consultant, eventually finding himself working for the very man that the CIA has been trying to discredit. But under only slightly different circumstances, he may have emerged as IPC's liaison with the CIA, or perhaps something even worse. The times of the Cold War were truly truly weird. In the end, IITT and IPC, the two tech giants of that epoch, really that different? Perhaps that Washington scientist comparing Stafford beer to John MacCone, isn't so far

37:55off. So as the climate in Santiago hits up, the British propaganda machine also gets into full swing. And Stafford is about to get caught up in the action, as BBC's flagship show has expressed an interest in doing a segment on Ayende. As a respected member of the General Advisory Council of BBC, and someone with very close connections to Ayende, Stafford naturally agrees to speak to the BBC crew when they arrive in Santiago. So he missed with the producer at his favourite chariton bar, and he's outraged by the biological bias of his combat spirit. By the way, the two clips that follow were made in a Welsh pub a long time ago. So apologies for the sound quality. And then he said, what are your views? I said, well, that's a very stark. This is absolutely irrelevant. That is, that is far enough, this propaganda. I will now take you to the truth. Have another pistol. And I talked to him for about four hours.

38:56The emotionally charged discussions at the chariton are ultimately futile. And they just did the thing, as originally planned before they left England, of course, and I'll never forgive him for this. And the only feedback I had was that the wife of the Chimian ambassador told me that she watched this programme and broke down and cried and cried and couldn't be at his own. Every rostaffer lurks, he finds himself at Lagerhats, with one group or another. Core 4 is not his cap of tea. The Chilean engineers aren't buying what he is selling. The British laugh test are giving him the cold shoulder, and now he's even getting into it with the BBC. The Chimian consulting is good, sure, but has this man tried anger management? So whilst effort contemplates the respective merits of Sabineticians and gunmen, danger looms as the real gunman make the move against Ayyanda.

39:59A report is sent to Henry Kissinger around that time, and it contains news that is far from uplifting to anyone who's hoping that Sabinetic's synergy might still help Ayyanda. The presence of the Chilean Air Force have worked out a plan to overthrow Ayyanda. It envisions seizure of the presidential palace by Air Force troops, supported by an armoured battalion of the army plus helicopters. Three commanders of key army units in or around Santiago are sent to be backing this effort. It's a race against time for Stafford Ayyanda and the Santiago boys. As the enemy closes in on them, they have to make some tough choices. Who can they trust? What are they willing to sacrifice? And how will they fight back? Next on the Santiago boys, a crisis looms over Chile as Ayyanda's empanada revolution

41:02faces a critical flower shortage. And the dream of technological sovereignty seems more and more elusive at least for our Sabinetic team. And they have bigger problems to worry about. I am the enemy that is closing in and the Santiago boys are given orders to dismantle the operations room. And they want to do it before it falls into the wrong hands. The hands of the coup lords or the military or the patriarchy and libertat. Meanwhile, Fernando Flores studies counter-insurgency marios and some indigenous tanks do surround the presidential balance. And there are also hints that a shadow figure has been plotting to end global communists and to do so with high-tech weapons. And he can't wait for Ayyanda's regime to fall to implement his plans. All of this and more in the next episode of the Santiago boys. Stay with us. The Santiago boys is a co-production of core media and post-utopia.

42:07Writing research, development and presentation, Yvgeny Marosov. Music main theme, Luca Mikéle, audio editing and post-production, Matthew Lichotti, music supervisor, Luca Mikéle, post-production producer, Mateo Salza. The people who have been helping me was organizing, recording and processing hundreds of interviews. Unfortunately, too many to name here. But I'd like to extend special things to Ciara Dileone, Ekiyth Cancella, Nikolai Maxim Chuk and Matemia Walde. All of them have helped me in more than one way. Full credits are also on the podcast website, the hyphen Santiago hyphen, boys.com.

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