169: How To Be Mysteriously Virtuous [Tao Te Ching Ch.10]

0:00Hello, and welcome. Hello! I'm Artemis Nihai. And I'm Bartleby Nihai, and we are the Kinetic Paranormal Society. A pair of socks and a magic wardrobe traveling through time and space investigating the supernatural. And though the ultimate truth can never be spoken, we persist nonetheless. And sometimes we accidentally bump into the ultimate truth like stepping a toe while wandering around in the dark. You're listening to Meta Cosmos. Or more precisely, you're listening to Meta Cosmos 2. 2 Meta 2 Cosmos. Right, and yes, Meta Cosmos 2, a podcast about the Dow Day Ching. And this week we will be reading Chapter 10. Yes, totally, and we might even have a little bit of Meta Cosmos 1. Later on in the episode. No, Bartleby, we're doing Meta Cosmos 2 now. And you can't just keep squeezing in extra podcast episodes. We only do one a week. Sure, sure we do.

1:01But first we got to do our role-playing choose your own topic podcast adventure, Artemis. Because last time we left off, we were on a foggy beach, where we met two smugglers, the very tall and very fuzzy, woogie-woogie, who only speaks of woogie in, along with his translator, Popo Boingo. And they have recruited us to go on a salvaging mission with them in their spaceship. Oh, yeah, that's where we last left off, Artemis. So here we are walking along on a beach. And we see the silhouette of the ship and the fog ahead of us. Oh, and what does it look like? Well, it kind of looks like a hunk of junk. Oh, okay. And Popo Boingo says, Look, I know it doesn't look like it's much, but this year's my trusty ship, the Chug Chug Turbo Daddy. Excuse me? That's right. Maybe the fastest ship in the galaxy. Oh, um, wow. I know. Pretty impressive.

2:01Me and Chug Chug Turbo Daddy have been together ever since I, wondering a gambling match with my friend, Lasso Onion Bulb. Popo Boingo, are you just saying random words? No. No, not at all. I'm making up names by just kind of stringing together random syllables. Lasso Onion Bulb? You think those are random syllables? Oh, yeah. You know, if you just string a long enough random syllables, you can only announce them real words, eventually. Okay, then. Wow. Popo. What amazing adventures you have had. Well, I guess we should be boarding your Chug Chug Turbo Daddy. Hey, a little respect on the name when you say it. I don't think I was being disrespectful. Well, you know, honestly, I don't miss respects of anything. It's very, um, subjective. Indeed, yes. Well, let's just board the ship, and I do have with me my two translations of the Dowdaging, one by Stephen Mitchell, and the other by Ursula Kayla Grimm.

3:03And I'm going to go and find myself a seat on this hunker junk of a spacecraft, buckle myself in, and break out my books. Okay. Fantastic. So I guess I'm going to sit next to you, and I'll seatbelt myself to, and then popo boingo, and woogie-woogie, they go into the cockpit, and start up the Chug Chug Turbo Daddy. And man, that's when we find out, just how appropriate a name that is, because the engine starts going, chug a chug a chug a chug a chug a chug a chug a chug a chug a chug! And then this, like, all encompassing hum, starts whizzing around us, and oh my goodness, Artemis, everything inside of the ship suddenly loses gravity, including the ship itself. And so your two books, they start floating up in the air. Oh, dear. Well, I'm grabbing them out of the air then. Good call, good call. You better hold on to those, because I don't want to get into the a position of it all, but this is an anti-gravity-defined ship. That's how it's able to lift off the ground without wings. Yes, that's something that's not discussed

4:04much in science fiction, but it occurs quite often. Yes, and in this particular case, well, the inside of the ship also loses gravity, the moment you turn on the anti-gravity machine that allows the ship to fly. Ooh, I like that detail. Well, I have my two books here, and I think it's time we start exploring the Dow Day Ching. Yes, yes, okay. Let us start the Medikasmos, too. Indeed. And as usual, I would like to begin with Stephen Mitchell's translation. And here we are, Chapter 10. Can you coax your mind from wandering and keep to the original oneness? Can you let your body become supple as a newborn child? Can you cleanse your inner vision until you see nothing but delight? Can you love people and learn to leave them without imposing your will? Can you deal with the most vital matters by letting events take their course?

5:04Can you step back from your own mind and thus understand all things? Giving birth and nourishing, having without possessing, acting with no expectations, leading and not trying to control. This is the supreme virtue. Oh, man, Artemis. I think we can really take that one apart, but because I think we might be doing some Medikasmos one at the end of this episode, I think we should probably like, you know, pick up the pace in the beginning here, and maybe you can just go straight into reading Ursula K. LaGuins translation before we start analyzing the material. But I don't want to do Medikasmos one at the end of this. No, really? Honestly, it's kind of like the yin and the yang. It's just two sides of the same coin, Artemis. No, that's not what this is. Well, I think that's going to be a really interesting debate that we can get into. Perhaps in an episode of Medikasmos one

6:04that might just come up later on. All right, well, if we've already built up to reading both chapters for this long, I'm going to read it, but that doesn't mean we're doing Medikasmos one. Why thank you, Artemis, and honestly, I think that would be a very interesting topic for Medikasmos one, because I haven't even come up with a topic today, so I don't even know what it's going to be about. Well, wait a minute. If you don't know what it's going to be about, then why do we even have to do it? Because we're already doing it, and we've been alluding to it this whole time, so we've got to follow through. Oh dear, all right. Let's read as the Caleb Winds translation of chapter 10. Techniques. Can you keep your soul in its body, hold fast to the one, and so learn to be whole? Can you center your energy, be soft, tender, and so learn to be a baby? Can you keep the deep water still and clear, so it reflects without blurring? Can you love people and run things,

7:06and do so by not doing? Opening, closing the gate of wisdom, can you be like a bird with her nestlings? Here seem bright through the cosmos, can you know by not knowing? You give birth to nourish, to bear and not to own, to act and not lay claim, to lead and not rule. This is a mysterious power. Wow, Artemis. You know both of those poems, their last lines are so the same indifferent, because one is saying that if you do what I'm telling you, you will have this supreme virtue. And the other one is saying that what I'm describing is this mysterious power, and it's interesting because, you know, like virtue and power, those are definitely considered like things people want. But supreme and mysterious are very different versions of what it is that people think they want, because so often people like,

8:06give me the best one of everything. So they're like, yeah, I want the supreme virtue, not the regular virtue. But you don't have anything people are like, give me the mysterious power. Yeah, that's the one I want. No, no, no, no, I don't want the unmisturious power. I want the mysterious power. Yes, well, perhaps they're really just saying the same thing, especially in terms of the Dow Day Qing, or according to the Dow, the mystery is the supreme. And perhaps the virtue is the power. Yeah, but it's not like the regular kind of power, because it totally the like, you know, I can carry this, but it's not mine. And like, I'm ready to take action, but you know, again, not going to like claim. I actually prefer the way that Stephen Mitchell phrases the acting line of that verse, in which he says, acting with no expectations. So we may contribute to a situation without any sense of what we're getting back from it. Oh, yeah, I like that better too. And what about the next verse?

9:06The Gwen said it was to lead and not rule. Yes, but for the most part, I think that for the other verses, they are mostly boiled down to the same implications, but really we're just analyzing the end of the poem. And perhaps we can go back to the beginning and compare the two translations, or Stephen Mitchell starts off saying, Can you coax your mind from its wandering? And Ursula K. Le Guin says, Can you keep your soul in its body? Oh, I love that. That is so much more provocative to say like, Hey, your mind isn't what's wandering. It's your very soul, leaving where you're at and leaving its presence, and like basically going to the astral plane, because that's what a wandering mind and a daydreamer is doing. They are astral projecting. Well, yes, most definitely. And for the most part, they're doing it in a very untrained, and undisciplined manner. Yeah, yeah, not a lot of them go looking for gurus to teach them how to, you know, get good at it. Well, yes, but who could blame them

10:06having seen the quality of gurus? They're very often asking for donations to fund their temple, where everybody volunteers to treat them like they're special. And very often, many of these gurus tend to have to be exploitative. And so, yes, I don't blame any amateur astral projectors out there, especially in this economy. Hmm. Yeah, sometimes you just have to ask spirit directly, like what to do. And sometimes the answer is just daydream. Well, indeed, every idea has to begin somewhere. Yes, indeed. Okay, so the next verse is, and keep to the original one this, and Ursula Kailagwin says, hold fast to the one, and so learn to be whole. And if I was to interpret that, I would say that like, you know, everybody is at one with each other, when you think about it. You know, there's a kind of continuity of existence that everybody is a part of, like in the Venn diagram of everything, it's like the same Venn diagram as God. So I guess basically if you're astral projecting,

11:06maybe you're not staying in the moment, and you're not like being there as the oneness is existing in the moment that it's existing, and that if you really want to be a part of the whole thing in the oneness, you just got to kind of like, you know. Day present. And I have your salt wandering around outside of your body. Hmm, well, can you let your salt become supple as a newborn child, or is it Ursula Kailagwin put it, can you center your energy, be soft, tender, and so learn to be a baby? Okay, well, supple, soft, tender, and if you can be those things, then it's like basically saying you can be like a baby. Did like ancient China have yoga back then because if they're telling you that you want to be supple like a baby, it sounds like they probably had a lot of good stretching exercises. Well, yoga had existed for a very long time by 600 BC, so I'm going to guess yes,

12:06they probably didn't have some form of yoga, or at least stretching. Much of the martial arts of Tai Chi in Akito, they follow many Taoist principles, and though they're relatively young martial art forms, in comparison to the Tai Chi, many of the same principles are embodied, so truly there were stretching exercises that encouraged being flexible in soft, tender, and supple, comparable to a baby, yes, comparable to a baby, and yes, the Tai Chi has gone on to inspire its own stretching and martial arts exercises. But I don't think these are just physical exercises we're talking about here. For the next verse, asks, can you cleanse your inner vision until you see nothing but the light? And in us the Kayla Gwynn's vision, can you keep the deep water still and clear? So it reflects without blurring. You know, I really like how literal as the Kayla Gwynn is, compared to like the vagueness of saying,

13:07hey, can you do nothing but light? You know, seeing nothing but light is a relative experience, and if you're like looking at the experience and going, yeah, I'm going to try to see nothing but light, then maybe you can just start denying the darkness you see and say, yep, there it is, nothing but light. But when you compare it to Ursula's translation, she's literally saying, can you keep your water still so like it has no rippling at all, so that you can see a reflection without blurring, which is a lot harder to be in denial when there's any ripples in your water. So I speak. Oh, yes, good point. And also like in last week's episode, we were talking about how your own nervous system kind of allows your experiences, and that like when you close your eyes and you just do nothing but darkness, all of the patterns that you're experiencing are a part of your neurology. Well, I think we said it was a little more complicated than that. We were talking about how neurology interacts with the mercurba. Well, yes, okay. But what I'm getting at here is that when we say like,

14:07hey, cleanse your own vision, you'll see nothing but the light. You've got to realize that the light you're seeing is going to be a little bit, you know, colored through your own nervous system. And maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe there's a little degree to it, which we can never really fully make the water become still so that the reflection has no blurring. I mean, like, have you ever seen water that still before, Artemis? Well, yes, but I do believe those moments have their own paranormal factors. I don't know if they count. Exactly, exactly. All right, well, maybe we should look at the next verse and see what we can learn about it. Or Stephen Mitchell says, you can love people and leave them without imposing your will. While Ursula K. Le Guin puts it, can you love people and run things and do so by not doing? Well, hold on a second. So basically, she says, can you do so by not doing? So she's saying, way, way, way. Stephen Mitchell said, without imposing your will.

15:07So does that mean that the very act of practicing will way means not imposing your will? Is your own will, the opposite of will way, Artemis? Oh, that's a very provocative question. I'm not sure what provoked them to each translate it this way, though this verse is also reflected later. Or can you love people and lead them without imposing your will? Well, leading is one of the supreme virtues as long as you're not trying to control as you do so. Or is Ursula K. Le Guin put it not ruling? Yes, exactly. Okay, man. You know, I think honestly, Ursula titling this chapter techniques was really appropriate. Because this episode is turning out to be you like one of those self-help side-orders. Remember when we used to do diner-themed role-playing games, Artemis? Yes, I remember. But yeah, this is totally like all of these different questions throughout the poem are like challenging the reader to like say, hey, am I ready to follow this particular practice

16:07that will have the kind of outcomes I'm hoping for? Well, speaking of outcomes we hope for, the next verse, as Stephen Mitchell translated, can you deal with the most vital matters by letting events take their course? And so it really is stepping out of the way of the process. And again, not being passive, but just doing where the doing is done in a non-doing kind of way. What does that even mean? It just means acting without expectations. One takes actions, but one does not necessarily expect what they're going to be getting from it. And so one just lets events take their course. And the next verse is asking a very similar question. Can you step back from your own mind and thus understand all things? And the next verse is asking the same question, but rather than asking about how events turn out, is examining the present. Or it asks, can you step back from your own mind

17:08and thus understand all things? Because, well, when you're consumed in your own thought and your own process, one might be a bit removed from perspective. And as we already know, the Tao can never really be spoken or comprehended in a natural way. So in a state where one steps back from their own mind, only then do they have a chance to understand the state of all things. But returning back into one's own mind, you will no longer have whatever understanding you had just recently tasted. Oh man, it's like epiphanies. And like, Satori in the state of enlightenment. Like, while you're there, you're there. But like, you can't quite bring it back with you and you don't really become enlightened forever. It's just kind of a moment that you can kind of use as a landmark. But it's not really like where you're going to dwell as a person from then on. No, no. And many people go chasing that proverbial dragon

18:08after they have that experience the first time. For quite a while, acting as though they're enlightened. But deep down, having some assault of imposter syndrome in which they're just hoping desperately for another taste of that half-restate of mind. Oh man, totally, totally. So who kind of meld the two verses from Stephen and Ursula together? I'll just say to give birth and to nourish, to bear without possessing, to act with no expectations, to lead without trying to rule. This is the mysterious virtue. Ooh, I like that mixed flavor, very anonymous. Why, thank you. Maybe I could call it my own interpretation. Well, it would be a very plagiarized interpretation, but sure, whatever. Okay, we'll find, be that way. But there's actually a note here that Ursula K. Le Guin included at the end of this chapter.

19:09And she says, most of the scholars think this chapter is about meditation. It's techniques and fulfillment. The language is profoundly mystical, images charged, rich in implications. The last verse turned up in nearly the same words in other chapters. There are several such refrains throughout the book. Identical or similar lines repeated once, twice, or three times. Oh, so the whole, like, don't act with expectations, and don't have without possessing, we're going to hear this one again. Well, I guess we are. Perhaps we could call this a little bit of full shadowing. I guess we can. Well, this has been a very exciting episode possibly, and I think we can wrap it up from here. Well, I'm sure you do think that, Artemis, but actually, it's time for our fan favorite segment. Random logical fallacy. No, it's definitely not a favorite.

20:09Well, it might be. You never know, Artemis. But we are back to do another random logical fallacy of the week. And I'm going to generate a random number now, and let's see what we get. Number two. Oh, boy. What's this going to be? Add hominem. Oh, man. That's one of those fancy Latin logical fallacies, Artemis. Well, many of them have Latin roots. Well, this one managed to maintain Latin name. How about you read to us about it from your logical fallacy is.com. Are we still using this website? No, this is the new website. We changed websites. Yes, but I think this one's selling some sort of product. We really should probably be using Wikipedia about me. Okay. Well, the Wikipedia's not as like, well phrased necessarily. I don't know if any of these are well phrased. Haven't we noticed there's a pattern? Every single website that focuses on logical fallacies has to come up with examples. And each of the examples are very likely going to be straw mountain fallacies,

21:13where they make up a perspective of someone who's been irrational by their account. And then they say, see, this is an example of this logical fallacy. But chances are, anybody that they think is using a logical fallacy, maybe these people that they write off as being illogical, are just someone that they can't follow the logic of. And if they had a better perspective of who they were talking to, they might not depict them in such a cartoon character way, as these examples on these logical fallacy websites provide. Well, that is a very good point. Right, it means. But here, right here, if you could just read this. Okay, fine, fine, here we are. Add hominem. You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument. Add hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument.

22:14The result of an add hominem attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it. Example. After Sally presents an eloquent and compelling case for a more equitable taxation system. Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married was once arrested and smells a bit weird. Oh dear, so that would be an add hominem attack? Because Sally's argument has nothing to do with whether she's a woman or married or was ever arrested or even how she smells. If she is arguing an eloquent and compelling case, she should be judged for that merit. Oh man, wow, Artemis can't disagree. But I think I have another example I want to give of an add hominem attack. Okay, and what is that? Well, what if, for example, someone was judging all of the logical fallacy websites

23:16and kind of having an add hominem attack at them by saying, hey, just the act of trying to create this website in what you created is actually inherently flawed. And so I don't want to listen to you smelly dudes. I didn't call them smelly. Well, yeah, but I think you implied it. Win. I don't know Artemis, but you know, it's just kind of one of those things that snooty, snooty people like you do. Wait, hold on, this isn't add hominem attack right now. You're add homineming me. Yes. Yes, I am. Thank you for noticing. And I'm not too proud to admit that, yeah, I think I probably do a lot of add homineming to you in general. Well, um, thank you for admitting it, but I must confess it's very hardball to be not prefer if you didn't. Well, yeah, okay. I do see that it's really challenging for you, but I think I do it to challenge you. Because, man, right after you get add hominemd,

24:16you really come back swinging Artemis. That's where we get some of our best material in Metaclasmos. Because you are always ready to double down on this snooty snooty stuff. Now, wait, why are you complaining about me being snooty snooty if you want me to double down on it? Well, because that's how our personalities make compelling podcasting Artemis. And maybe sometimes an important ingredient in making an entertaining Metaclasmos is just adding a little hominem. If you know what I mean. Hmm. I don't know if you're using this segment of random logical fallacies. But good instead of evil ball to me. Well, thank goodness we've already learned in the Dowd-Acing that believing in good is what makes people start thinking there's such thing as evil. And that the real good is being like water, Artemis. Remember that? Yes, yes. That was just two episodes ago, episode 167. Talking in the Dow. Also known as episode 8 of Metaclasmos 2. Welcome to Waterworld.

25:17But yeah. I think this would be a great time to shift over to our episode of Metaclasmos 1. The Metaclasmos from another time. From the before times. Metaclasmos Plastic. Oh, Bottlebee, is this really necessary? Well, not technically necessary. And honestly, I'm not really sure what today's Metaclasmos 1 is about. I haven't really thought this through all the way to be honest. But I've been missing Metaclasmos 1. I know like really like doing stuff that's like topical, maybe not current events. But you know, something that's maybe topical that we could all think about and apply to our own process. And I really like how Metaclasmos was like doing that and finding that space. And ever since we became Metaclasmos 2. I just feel like we're missing that old, down-home, classic flavor. The original flavor of Metaclasmos. Metaclasmos Classic.

26:17Why are you saying it like that? Oh, I don't know. No reason. I'm just like saying that Metaclasmos 1 is like waking up to the smell of a hot cup of coffee in a donut. With a crackling fireplace, down-home, with a holidays, together, that classic flavor. But I'll be stopped already. You'll just procrastinating and buying time while you try to think of something to make this episode about. I am not. And by coincidence, Artemis, actually, I just thought of something. Oh, really? Yes, yes, really. And whatever thought we could do for this episode of Metaclasmos 1 is offer our listeners a little bit of which crafting techniques. But they can incorporate into their own lives. Because everybody's out there trying to make themselves. And I recently came upon a really good pro tip. When I heard it from this lady named Allison Strickland. And she calls herself an intuitive guide. And, well, she was posting on Substack.

27:19And she was talking about how, like, for four years, she had a shamanic mentorship. And her mentor told her, and I quote, The greatest energetic projection is being who you say you are. And doing what you say you're going to do. Oh, that's very simple. I like that. Yes, yes. And that's why it's so important that you know thyself. And that you are trying to get to know thyself. Because really, you're a work in progress. So you've always got a kind of adjust to figure out who you are now. And that process is going to keep you current on being who you say you are. And doing what you say you're going to do. Because you can't do what you're saying you're going to do if you don't know where you're at. And if you do know where you're at, then you can get that stuff done. But if you don't realize that you're ever changing, you may not recalibrate to become the new you that you become. And follow through on the things that you said you were going to do.

28:21Because you didn't realize where you were at and what kind of person you were to follow through on it. You know, I can see some very practical applications that same. Because if you know who you are, then you're not going to be making any promises that you can't follow through on. And that, well, that will do well for your reputation. And if you give a good reputation, you won't have as much need to protect your energy. Or not only will you be less likely to receive any negative energy from others. But you will have a basket of positive energies woven around you from the community that you were partaking in. So yes, I will very much agree with Alison Strickland's mentor. Being who you say you are and doing what you say you're going to do is a great energetic protection. Yeah, exactly. But you also have to stay current on knowing myself. Because time changes all things, even you. Especially you. No, you. Aren't we talking about like everybody, you?

29:22Exactly. Okay, then. Well, thank you, Walter B. for such a short episode of Metacallsmos1. I do appreciate that. Oh, um, yeah. Yeah, I guess it just about says it. Doesn't it? Yes, it does. And thank you so much for being such a agreeable co-host to end this episode right now. Thank you, Artemis. Thank you. But like, if you're trying to end the episode and start the credits, no. That's not how this works. We haven't finished our role-playing game this week. Because where we last left off, we were writing in the ChubbChub Turbo Daddy. I really don't like that name. Well, that's only because it's so provocative. No, I don't think that's it. No, that's definitely it. And well, as we were taking off and flying out of the atmosphere, there was no gravity in the ship. And you had to hold on to your two copies of your book. And man, oh man, weren't we lucky we buckled ourselves in? Yeah, it's all to be lucky. And well, once the ChubbChub Turbo Daddy got out of the atmosphere of the planet,

30:26that's when the anti-gravity machines turned off Artemis. And everything kind of turned back to normal in the ship. Wait, hold on. How is that gravity in space, but there's no gravity while we're on the planet? Well, because the machine has gravity bending technology, Artemis. And the only way this thing got off the planet was to lessen its own gravity. But once we were out in space, there is no gravity. So we have to increase the gravity on the ship. Boom. Okay, well that actually does make sense. Thank you, exactly. So, here we are in the ship. And now, like, you know, I take off my seatbelt because I don't need it anymore. I don't know if you want to. I'm gonna get up and stretch a little bit. And if you want to get up and stretch, just let me know what Artemis. No, I'm just gonna keep sitting here. Okay, well, while you're just sitting there, Papa Boingo and Woogie Woogie, they come out of the cockpit. And Woogie Woogie says, Oh, Woogie Woogie. So Papa Boingo translates for him and he says,

31:27Woogie Woogie says he hopes that wasn't too crazy for you guys. Um, no, Woogie Woogie. Thank you. Oh, Woogie Woogie. And Papa Boingo? He translates, he says. Woogie Woogie says no problem. But he's curious about those books you have there. You heard you reading them back on the beach. And he's hoping you're gonna summarize this week's episode. Oh, well, there are many techniques. One may use two. Better line themselves with the dowel. And these techniques and practices of Dane present in one's body. Remembering to stretch and stay supple? Both literally in one's body but also figuratively in one state of mind. And who may be clear and calm the mind? Who that the waters do not ripple? And if you're going to lead people, love those people without taking charge of them. Yeah, I personally think that the love is enough, even without the leadership. It's the best kind of leadership would be honest.

32:28Yes, well assuming someone has worked out a version of love that isn't abusive. Oh man, whoa, dang. What are you trying to say, Artemis? I'm just saying it's very common for souls to have to be reborn. Thousands upon thousands of times. Just to get that love polterized. Yeah. Yeah. And they usually have to figure out how to apply it to themselves first of all. Yeah, I guess that's what a Ursula K. Le Guin meant by opening, closing the gate of heaven. Can you be like a bird with her nestlings? Piercing bright through the cosmos? Can you know why not knowing? Hmm, you know, I actually glossed over that pot when we were doing the recap. I find it to be... Well, especially vague. Oh, I don't know. If you compare it to like dealing with the most vital matters, what could be more vital to a bird than a nestlings? Well, I guess he's just going to have to let those events take course. Totally. She can't decide to choose when they decide to.

33:31Leave the nest and fly for the first time, and it's not always successful. And if they do fall out of the nest, she usually doesn't have any way to get them back in, let's be honest. These aren't little kittens we're talking about. Who? To hear about the bee. Yeah, but, um, you know, don't mind me. You know, you were just summarizing. Go on, go on. Oh, okay. Well, I think it's time we step back from our minds, and thus understand all things and end this episode possibly. Okay, sure, but before we do, I think we could probably ask ourselves just a little bit. How we could apply this advice to, you know, making Metacysmos for instance. Well, we give birth and nourish it, so I guess we can't seem to stop doing that, so that's done. We have to bury it and not own it, and I have no problem with that, because I do think this is a burden that I have to bear, and I certainly don't want any part of it. I don't want to consider it my own, so that's done, and acting with no expectations.

34:34I guess we're doing that because it's not as though there are many people listening. And I certainly doubt we're going to get any more. So I think we're doing very well in that department, and we have leading without trying to control, and we're just socks, so I don't think we could control even if we wanted to. Though, honestly, I think we've got these old dial dims. Wow. Metacysmos is a mysterious virtue. Am I right? Yes, though, I would say the real mysterious virtue I'm looking forward to how we find the end of this episode. Good question, Artemis. But just now, the sensors on the ChagChag Turbo Daddy start going, weep, weep, weep, weep, weep. And Papa Boingo says, Uh-oh. It looks like they found us. We better take a base of action. Um, who found us? Lasso onion bulb in his men. Wait, is that the character you won this ship from in a gambling match? Yeah, but he says I cheated.

35:34But he's the real cheater. Lasso onion bulb. Wait, didn't you say you were friends? You two better buckle up. The ChagChag Turbo Daddy is equipped with far more than gravity bending technology. Hold on tight. Because we're about to have an action-packed chase scene that happens in between episodes. Oh dear. Okay, Artemis, we better buckle up. And man, oh man. Are listeners better buckle up? Because they're going back to reality. Oh dear, how unfortunate for them. Yes, yes, exactly. And that's why we should be making more Metacysmos per week, Artemis. We need to give them a refuge. No baltabee, this isn't a refuge. If anything, Metacysmos should serve as a catalyst. In its best form, it is a launching point to project them into their best cells. Well, they don't necessarily need any refuge. Yes. And in that case, they would just comfort the nostalgia and the cogenous. Okay, well, I guess until then baltabee, I still have the same question.

36:36How do we end this episode? Oh, well, it really just comes down to saying, thank you, Artemis. Thank you. Thank you for being such an amazing sock. Oh, well, you're a pretty darn good sock too, if you know what I mean. Get it, darn good sock. Thanks, that's so sweet of you to say. And our listeners are darn good listeners. No baltabee, the pun doesn't work when you apply it to them. Maybe it does. There might be socks listening. Okay, well, if you insist. Yes, I do. I do insist. And they are amazing both socks and non-socks alike. Because they're with us every week for this amazing adventure. And somehow, someday, they're gonna actually write those reviews, Artemis. And maybe even rewrite their reviews because if they keep writing new reviews, we'll keep hearing about them. And it'll make our show look more popular. Mmm, baltabee, you should be acting without expectations.

37:38You'll be happier that way. Trust me. It's a supreme virtue. No, okay, fine. Don't write the reviews. Nope, baltabee, no expectations goes both ways. You don't care if they do all don't write the reviews. It's fine. Really? Absolutely. Okay, well, thanks, Artemis. And thank you, Lith News. And thank you supporters. Oh my god, you guys are so supportive. Especially those that give that special existential support. Mmm, indeed, yes. Those who go to kineticperinormalsociety.com Blush, love Bluefoot. Where they can find links so that they may contribute to the production of this show and support our producer. Yes, our producer's Isaac Bluefoot. He makes this show and he makes our website. And honestly, he does a lot of things. And I'm not sure how he gets it all done. Including writing and producing a podcast of an unauthorized biography of Clark Kent.

38:39And it is awesome. And you can find it wherever it was in the podcast. And it's sent about podcast.com. Additional support from Intercosmos comes from Humboldt Hot Air. Where you can find music and talk shows. And this talk show at HumboldtHotAir.org. Thanks, Humboldt Hot Air. And thank you guys. This has been great. Always, I can hardly wait till we do this again. Bye-bye. I love you. Okay, Bob, to be honest, if you can keep these Metacosmos one episode that short, maybe we can work them in as a segment every week. Oh, man. Yeah, you're loving the flavor of that Metacosmos classic. Like a morning sunrise, waving to your neighbor, and realizing what a wonderful world. Metacosmos classic. Good morning, Metacosmos. No, no, don't phrase it that way. This is the end of the episode.