1625: Yeast Infections in Horses, A Multifaceted Problem - Horse Tip Daily

0:00Hello, everybody. I'm Justin Long, host of Straight from the Horse Doctors' mouth, and I want to talk to you about something every horse owner dreads, emergencies. In these moments, indecision makes it hard to know what to do, or if you should call your vet. That's why Dr. Latcher and I created the Equine Emergency Vet Care Guide. This is an app that walks you step-by-step through common equine emergencies, helps you decide when to call, and tells you exactly what information your veterinarian needs. It's not a replacement for your vet, and helps you work with them towards the best outcome for your horse. Search Equine Emergency App in the App Store or Google Play and be prepared before the emergency happens. You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family. Greetings, everyone. Coach Jen here, and thanks for tuning in to Horse Tip Daily, episode 1625. This time we get to be a fly on the wall.

1:00As horses in the morning co-host, Glenn and Jamie chat with Dr. Marcello from the University of Florida about yeast infections and horses. I would like to welcome to the show Dr. Rosanna Marcella, and she is the veterinary dermatologist and full professor at the University of Florida. Thank you so much for joining us. I pleasure. Now, Glenn and I have covered for 15 years horse health topics. And I really think this might be the first time that we've covered this. And I also think it's the first time I've heard this word, and I've been involved in horses for a long time. And you tell me how to pronounce it, and it's called Marcezia. Marcezia, yes. What is that? Well, it's a name for a yeast that we see in allergic individuals. I mean, people get it, horses get it, dogs get it, and it's just an overgrowth on the skin.

2:03Whenever the skin is moist and irritated, for example, in horses, the most common scenario is when horses have a fly mask for too long, and they sweat underneath. They are prone to get a yeast infection. And most of the time, it's Marcezia. OK, so yeast, in fact, because I mean, as a woman, I hear, I mean, all of us know what that means in human world. Unfortunately, so on, in horses, it's not that area. It can be pretty much, I guess, anywhere on the skin. Yeah, so in people, the most common scenario is that you are antibiotics, and that kind of answers your flora, and so you have an overgrowth of Candida. But in horses, that has nothing to do with an antibiotic course, has everything to do with an imbalance of the floor of the skin, and it's frequently both bacteria and yeast

3:07that, rather than being competitive with each other, they are what we call symbiotic, so they help each other. So many times they go hand-in-hand, and sometimes people are concerned that this is the result of an antibiotic course, but it's just an indication that the skin is inflamed and the state moist for extended periods of time. So a lot of sweat, common area is under the forelock, that they sweat a lot, and then if people forget about the, you know, any rains, or they just simply sweat underneath, that's what they tend to get. And there is very itchy, and it looks like little areas of loss of pigment. So the skin kind of loses its pigment, and it can look like pink or, yeah, just discolored. Yeah. So they might lose their hair.

4:08I was going to ask you, next, what does it look like? So it looks like a pink area, or is there hair loss associated with it? Yes. Many times there is hair loss, and as well as itching, because they... This is what my pony had, Dr. Marcella, a really bad case. It's getting better now, but over the last month, and all across the top line, you know, between the legs and the back, it looks raw. It just looks raw, and it did lose its hair in those spots. But it was pink and looked raw, and itchy as all get out. Poor boy. It's like... Yeah. So the inguinal area is another common area. And also, anywhere there is a fold, or it's just simply stays moist, and the skin needs to stay dry. You know, so when there is a prolonged moisture, then these infections are very common. It is unusual to have yeast alone. So the times are in combination but here in yeast.

5:10And then it creates this snowball effect, because the animal is itchy. So the more they traumatize their skin, the more they impair the skin barrier function. Therefore, it's easier for all these organisms to take over. And actually, if I am able to add this piece of information, secondary skin infections are the most common cause of treatment failure when people try to allergic horses. So like horses that, you know, maybe used to respond, let's say, to steroids. And then they become completely unmanageable and very itchy. It's typically because they have developed a secondary infection on top of their their allergy. Oh, that sucks. As as as a horse that sucks as horse owner really sucks because you're trying everything you can. So what do you do? Yeah. What? Yes. So what are the options? So one is correct.

6:11So correct. It is many different products, anything between two and four percent correct sitting, which people can order online. They don't need a prescription. Yeah. So it basically will kill both the bacteria and the yeast. For animals that have become allergic to clorexinine because sometimes that is the case. Those are the ones that turn, you know, very flaky after the bath. Then an alternative, it would be a silver shampoo. There is a product, a silver honey shampoo, as well as an anti-fungal shampoo. So the classic would be Nisorol. The Nisorol is a human product that is available over the counter is ketoconazole shampoo and people can mix their shampoos, you know, if you haven't mixed infection and that is the best way to provide relief. Oh, my gosh, just things to just freak out every day.

7:16It was awesome, Jamie. This particular thing with the pony was it was it was a two months of battle, you know, with the bed out and the whole thing and it was just, it was awful. And Jennifer did blame the bugs a bit. She thought that the bugs had something to do with it that could that be true or not? Yes. And like I said, many horses have an underlying inset allergy like no seams or, you know, different types of bugs. So they start with that and then they progress into an infection. And so the way to deal with this is one, use a good repellent. And I could spend hours talking about that, but use a good repellent on a daily basis to minimize new bites and then address the secondary infection. Now sometimes people think it's only bacteria so that they put the animal, for example, on TMS, right, the sulfon, the sulfonite.

8:17And they don't quote, don't get better because they also have a yeast infection, right? So when you use an antibiotic, you're killing the bacteria, but you're not doing anything for the yeast. So that is something to keep in mind. Many times these two types of infections go together, but yeast are the eightiest ones. Now, so there's something specific about yeast that makes the type of it unresponsive to steroids and particularly intense. It's not any fun either. As a human, I had Lyme disease early in the days of Lyme disease when they didn't know how to treat it at all. And I was on the antibiotics often on for a year and yeast infections were the most common thing when, even with humans with that, that dosage of antibiotics over a long time. Oh, yeah. And you're not even a girl. No. You mentioned good repellent, and you said you could talk forever about that. Can you please tell me what the magic fly sprays this year?

9:21I swear. Okay. So there's a lot of confusion. And unfortunately, they're not good laws to regulate what people can say on the label. So I see this all the time with horse owners are very frustrated because they think that they're doing everything possible. But there are some products that claim to have repellent activity when they don't. So I encourage people to always look at the label. So let's start with this. Pyrethrine is not a repellent. It's an insecticide. So it means that if you spray a fly that is already on the horse, it will drop dead. But it will not prevent the fly from landing on the horse. So if I have a horse that is allergic, then I want a repellent. So you need to have per meter in some products have very low percentage of per meter. So it's very important to look at the label.

10:21You want to have at least like 0.5% per meter in order to be a repellent. Or you can use a per meter in derivative like second meter in which case, you can use a lower percentage. I mean, I can give commercial names, but I don't want to, you know, in case this is not allowed. But those are the ingredients for horses that become, quote, allergic to those types of chemicals, you can go botanical. And so in that group, the most effective is neem oil. And it has to be 1%, there are some products for horses they're ready to use so that people don't have to do any dilution. If people buy the concentrated neem oil, they need to dilute it. Now other options like garlic, you know, garlic is not a good repellent for bugs.

11:26And the citronella is very short-lived, able skin to soft is very short-lived. So all this, you know, all these things basically will last a very short amount of time. So the longest acting products are other per meter in per meter in derivative or neem oil. Oh my gosh. I'm taking so many notes on the phone. Okay. So we've got the pyrethrin is not good. It's an insecticide, which I don't really want to spray on my horse or get all over me. So it will kill the bugs dead. So that spray your floors and tack room with, but permythrin or cypropyrmythrin would be the ones that would be a repellent. Now if you want to, I'm just repeating what you said. So make sure I got it all straight. Neem oil, 1% dilute it. And we all know that there's, you know, I think aquederma is the neem oil spray.

12:30And I do, I do have some of that. And then there's a yellow bottle, I think it's called piranha. Is that permythrin or pyrethrin? It's a combination, low percentage pyrethrin and permythrin. So most of these products also have some pyrethrin in it. So you cannot avoid not spraying your horse with it because they have the pyrethrin. But I encourage people to look at the label. So many of these products, when you actually look at the label, I have a very low percentage. So they are okay for the average horse, but they're not okay for the nocym allergic horse. So the nocym allergic horse needs to see permythrin and a higher percentage of permythrin. There are some, for example, topical that you can apply on the pole area that have larger percentage of permythrin like aquispots, for example, you know, if they work, they work

13:34for like for the selected areas, right? So, for example, nocyms like to, they're different species of nocym, some would like to feed on the face. Of course, people don't spray the face of a horse. So then you are left having to decide whether you use a fly mask or you use a topical repellent. The fly mask, like I said, that if you are in an area that is hot and humid and I speak of experience, I am in Florida. So fly masks, when it's like 97 degrees, 99% humidity is typically not a good idea. So you use the topical permythrin spots, the spot on, on the pole area. And then you spray the rest of the body. Because of the humidity and the sweating, these products need to be applied every day or, you know, sometimes even twice a day, depending, you know, if you had a down pole in the afternoon

14:38and stuff like that. So it goes against what it says on the label of many of these products where they could say it kills and repels for up to 14 days. Yeah, that was all garbage. Right. So I'm not sure where they did the study, but I can promise you that if you're in an area where the bugs are an issue, that is so not going to be true. So if people need to basically be brave and apply generous amounts of this product on a daily basis on their horses. Okay. I have just found a super discovery. Okay. Are you ready for this? I love the equiderma products and my senior kelding, he's 33 and his belly, like the ventral midline of his belly always is so itchy because of the bugs getting under there. So I learned that I had this equiderma wound ointment and I've always put on wounds and it

15:38repels the flies. So now I just take this equiderma wound ointment and I just get a big thing and I just go underneath his belly, right? I don't know. I didn't know I worked. I just looked it up. It's made out of calendula and neem wound ointment, oh my god, I know now. Yes. So that ventral midline dermatitis, which is what you're describing, is caused by flybites. So that is a classic area, you know, so putting a repellent in that area. So you were on the right track, maybe not even knowing why this was working, but yes, that's what you want to do. You want to make sure that there are some preferred feeding sites where you need a good amount of repellent to avoid an issue. I keep it in my refrigerator like a tiny little barn fridge and I keep the wound ointment in the fridge. So when I scoop it out every morning, I put it on his belly, you know, and he just loves

16:39it. I scratch it in there and it's like his favorite thing in the world. And now I thought I was like, I had some sort of magic trick that I nobody knew about and it just turns out it's just a neem oil in there because I noticed it. When you put that on wounds, the flies stay away and it's better than swat and all that stuff too and it's natural and it's great. Oh my god. Okay. Well, here you go. Here's commercial for epidermal. We didn't even mean to have it. Sorry. Well. This is important. Right? The wounds. I mean, if I may add one thing quickly. So any open area where the flies can land, it will lead potentially to summer sores. Right? So, yeah. So it's very important. Any area that is a wound to be covered or to use generous amount of repellent to avoid turning that little scratch into a chronic summer sores. Oh my gosh. You are so fascinating to talk to. I could talk to you forever about all of this, but I did want to touch the topic that I

17:43found out that you actually speaking of our last guest, you actually own Andalusians too. We're like best friends already. I can tell. It has. I mean, I'm an addiction, right? So I think my experience, yeah, I started with them over 20 years ago and now I have quite a few at the house and there is once you have an undilusion, I think it will be very hard to be satisfied with another breed. And I, you know, I mean, this with, you know, respect toward other breeds, but there is something very unique about the undilusions. Well, we were talking before we started about the fact that they kind of pick one person and I 100% feel that I've had a student working student, I'm sorry, an exchange student lived with us the past year and she wrote them all year and had so many different issues with like he wouldn't stand at the mounting block.

18:43He wouldn't do this. He wouldn't do this. And now he's back to me because she's gone and I mean, he came to the mounting block today. He's like, he walks up to me and just puts his head down by my knees so I'll scratch his ear. And I'm just like, I'm like, oh my God, I forgot, you love me so much. Yeah, once they bond, they will do anything for you and that's how they are, they tend to have a preferential bond, they don't do well when they are passed around, they get their feelings hurt, you know, so you know, you have to be very sensitive and in tune with their emotions. And once you have that bond, you can absolutely do anything with them. So it's a very, it's almost like a huge dog, you know, that's the way. So here's, I'm going to ask you a personal question. How many do you have? I have 16 on the illusion. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yes.

19:43That is an addiction, yes, I just had a baby last month. So yeah, 16 and I promised it's my last baby, yes, sure, and yeah, we believe you. Well, this has been so fascinating, Dr. Marcella, if people have any questions, where can they go to maybe ask you whatever they want to know? I would encourage them to shoot me an email. My email is my last name, so M-A-R-S-E-L-L-A-A-U-S-L-L, like University of Florida dot E-D-U, like education. And I'll be happy to help. I mean, I am a vet, I'm an equiner, I'm a dermatologist, but you know, I'm a horse owner and I am always happy to help. For first time horse owners and new riders, finding the information and support you need can be challenging, that's why equine network has partnered with Sentinel and absorbing

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