#1331: Secrets of Strixhaven Set Design with Reggie Valk

0:00I'm not pulling on my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for their drive to work at home edition. So often I use this to talk to people and today we're going to talk secrets of Strixhaven with the set design lead Reggie Malk. Hey Reggie. Hey Mark. Happy to be here. Okay, so we're going to talk all sorts of this set is really interesting in that what got handed off from vision, like sets can change a little, they can change a lot. This set changed more in set design than I would say the average set. So we're going to talk through that. Yeah, we're going to start from the very beginning of set design and walk all the way through to the end. So let's start with what was your first impression of what you got handed? So I feel like what I got handed from vision and to be clear, I actually took over set design, I think Induke was the first lead of set design and he had led for maybe two or three months. And then I was taking over, he was moving on to bigger and better things that are down

1:03the pipeline. And he hadn't changed very much about the structure at all. So I felt like what I got handed off was something that was very honestly Strixhaven school of mages too. It was a really general set of the schools were pretty, the theming was really lightly mechanical. They had themes, obviously, but no keywords and they were a little more open-ended to discover. They still had some things that did end up making it all the way like new mascot tokens and the like, some themes that made it all the way through, like expel matters in Quandrix and the like. But prepared was everywhere in the set, extra credit was kind of trying to be another thing that was across all colors, extra credit was caring about casting your second spell, kind of doing something extra when it was your second spell.

2:05But honestly, that was a lot of it, like there really weren't very many mechanics to hook into. It was pretty open-ended, which is an exciting place to be. But for me, it was a little daunting also. But Regi, let me jump in real quick. So just so the audience understands, when we made original Strixhaven, which was actually my set, we were trying so hard to not be Ravnica, one of the things that we did was we were trying to have a very different structural approach. So on purpose, rather than having each faction have its own mechanic, we did this thing where we had like three mechanics and then all everybody had all three mechanics, but then executed on them differently. And so that was a very different structure, when we envisioned design, we kept that structure. That's what we're talking about. Absolutely, which is why, yeah, like it was Strixhaven 2, and you know, prepare was in lieu of learn lesson, which was, you know, serving that kind of main function. Because it is a little crazy to think about, but Strixhaven School of Majors really had

3:07two mechanics. It had learn lesson and it had magecraft, and they were just everywhere. And the rest of the set was pretty simple. Ward actually was technically also a new mechanic, it ended up getting codified in Strixhaven, but I don't know if that one was the most exciting. There were also double-faced cars where I'm set to. Oh, that's true, the modal double-faced cars, yeah. But I was here, and I worked on the original Strixhaven 2, and I remember you talking about, yeah, why we were intentionally doing that structure, and it made sense, and I mean, it worked. Strixhaven was an amazing success, a set that I love. But I had kind of taken a step back. We had already worked on a couple more faction sets. I don't remember. I think Tarkier Dragon Storm was probably nearing release, or you know, like very close to wrapping up design. And I felt like faction keywords were just kind of like a key piece of the puzzle in my

4:13mind. Obviously, we proved we don't need to use them, but I kind of actually remember, you know, I've chatted with Chris Mooney about this a lot of times, another designer, about, you know, what makes a faction set? And like, what are the key elements that, you know, define faction? And, you know, is it like they have their own token, their own watermark, their own mechanic, their own, you know, like, color is identity, you know, all of the pieces of the puzzle. And it did sort of feel like something was missing. At the same time, I feel like our feedback from our most recent couple of drafts before I took over had been, I was having fun, but it was a little meandering. It was pretty hard for me to find my lanes, like I wasn't sure where I was going. And it felt like we probably needed to make some kind of a switch up, either like adding some more directionality with like more gold cards, or just like kind of better defining our themes somehow. And I'll admit, it wasn't really what I had in mind, because I was stoked to get to be

5:17the set lead, you know, this is my first big project, and of course it was exciting. But I just had this inkling, no pun intended, in my mind that the set would really benefit from just our tried and true kind of proven method for faction keywords. And similarly, we had talked about also was flashback was actually a big impetus for this too. So flashback, one of magic's greatest keywords. I picked it number one on my best keywords of all time, not a bad choice. You know, lore hold was struggling a little bit. We were running back a very similar theme of leaves your graveyard, which is obviously awesome for archaeomancy, and still just like something we really wanted to hit on, because it felt like it was just like so perfect for what the school was about. But it was just challenging. It was tricky. We were struggling to make it work. And frankly, that was one of the places where I think we struggled in the original Strix

6:17Haven too, lore hold, especially unlimited kind of missed the mark a little bit. A little quick behind the scenes from the original Strix Haven, we had flashback in original Strix Haven. I've heard this. Yeah. We got taken out because we knew we were going to go back to in a straw, in a straw. Yeah. I was fine with both sets having flashback because I thought they used them differently. Yeah. R&D as a whole just didn't want to do it. So we pulled out. Yeah. I actually, I had forgotten about that. But yeah, I remember hearing that story in the moment. And so yeah, we were just like, I mean, I think flashback would really help because we know that we can make flashback archetypes successful. We've done that before. And looking into leaves your graveyard is just like a little twist. It would be nice. But we weren't sure where we wanted to deploy it. If we wanted to have flashback that was also in a very similar design space to prepare. Like frankly, they had a lot of the same restrictions of like, they were sort of face up sorceries

7:17or instants on the battlefield sometimes. So we felt like, no, we probably only want a small slice of it. Is it just a lore hold thing? But then we felt a little weird that lore hold had a mechanic and none of the other colors did. And so when I found out that I was taking over, I had taken a couple of days, but then I sat down and talked to Ian and Brian and it was just like, hey, I really think that the set would benefit from like a pretty big structural change. You know, this isn't something that I'm normally keen to do. Frankly, I think as a lead, I am pretty inclined to stay the course on a lot of things. But I don't know. I just had this feeling and we ended up cloning the file. We ended up like making a second copy and we're like, all right, Reggie, we'll do your experiment. You know, Ian actually stayed on and like, let it for the extra month. And we copied it over.

8:17We like sketched out what these mechanics looked like. Not all of them ended up making it all the way through. I actually forget what we had had, but increment was not the first quadrix mechanic that ended up actually also being a Chris Mooney solve down the line. We ended up trying it out, copied that file over and people were really liking it from the jump. They were, you know, excited and happy to have the rails and I felt pretty strongly that, you know, Strix Haven just had its own identity already. Like, you know, I understood why we had done it the first time, but I felt good that this isn't Ravnica. They won't think it's Ravnica. This is its own thing. Prepare is still doing so much cool lifting. It's still instance and sorceries matter and just kind of ran with it. Yeah. Something we should just mention to the audience. I always talk about in a design, there's what I call the greedy theme that there's a theme that just makes your set, you have to build the set around it.

9:18Yeah, yeah. And in this set, the greedy theme is instance and sorceries that you just can't, you just can't make instance sorcerers matter without really dedicating a lot of space and energy to making it matter. That's the truth. And so, you know, prepare was doing a lot of that lifting and we definitely tried to make sure that the other themes at least played well or were well supported with instance and sorceries in their kind of core limited aspects. And I'm pretty happy with where it landed and then so I still don't, it looks a little different from where vision started, but I still look at the file as it's finished now. And there are a lot of cards that like made it unchanged from vision still, which I think is delightful. Yeah, another thing to be aware of and we walked through the mechanics here is, so we had magecraft, vision design headed off magecraft, but a lot of our magecraft had like little subcategories in the cards.

10:18So let, because like both repertain opus, I think we're kind of riffs of what we were doing with magecraft. Very much so actually, yeah. So let's just, I want to walk through, we're going through each mechanic and you can talk about it. So let's start with repartay. We'll start with several. Well, yeah, like you said, it's like a little bit of a generalized magecraft in a sense. So whenever you cast an instant or sorcery that targets a creature, do something and we already did have this theme in the set pre like, you know, repartee being named in like a light dosage, we ended up adding like a little more once we decided that we were going to give the keywords names. And yeah, I don't know, it just felt like a really awesome, white, black thing to do. It was like the mixture of heroic and crimes and really all what Silver Quill is about, you know, do you use your words to uplift others or put others down and just kind of felt

11:19really fun. We had, you know, seen in real world how crimes had played in outlaws of Thunder Junction not long ago and felt like we had some learnings about how we could maybe make some stronger cards, how we could develop it easier. Heroic is one of my favorite, you know, mechanics and decks. And so it was just pretty exciting and fun to run with and obviously fit the theme of instance and sorceries played really well to with prepared and flashback. A lot of the prepared spells, especially at low rarities, ended up wanting to be kind of like simple combat tricky abilities or, you know, like sorceries that like had team pump, sort of like, you know, approximating things like, you know, battle rattle shaman and, you know, just like good limited designs and it ended up being a really nice way to then kind of reward those style of designs that we already wanted to make a lot of, you know, fun, flavorful Silver Quill the other thing to note is because heroic was my mechanic from way back when one of the lessons

12:23of heroic is because you have to target the creature that cares like heroic means if you target me, something happens and that that it just became very hard to make happen and that repartee is saying, well, you just got to target something. You don't have to target me, just something. Yep. Okay. I was just going to say I really enjoy to one of the things that might have been what you had handed off, but I always remember Yanni who was the lead of Strixhaven School of Mages talking about when I was on the team was, you know, a real goal to try to, you know, add depth to the limited format. We've learned this lesson when we're doing a set with only five archetypes that we really want to make sure that there is depth and replayability there and try to, you know, seed in what we hope are, like, kind of two specific archetypes for a given color. And I really like how repartee played in that way of we were really hoping and, you know, we'll see what happens that you could build a really kind of lean, aggressive, very heroic Silver Quill deck or a kind

13:27of big mid-rangey controlling crime Silver Quill deck. And so I really liked what it did there, too. Yeah, that was something in original Strixhaven. We, I mean, Yanni, by the way, was on the vision design. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the idea of each of the schools having two sort of archetypes, so there's different ways to play them. Yeah, that was something we built in last time. Okay, can we move on to Prismari? Let's do it. Okay, so Opus was kind of similar to repartee, right? Yeah, a little bit, you know, we were kind of tongue in cheek calling it mega-mage craft when it was in the set from early handoff, because in some ways, that's what it was. You know, whenever you cast an InstaSource respell, you always do something. You always get, you know, a little prowessy sort of a treat. And then if you spent five or more man at a cast to that spell, you do something bombastic, which felt very in line with Prismari who are trying to, you know, steal the show, make the biggest, most crazy displays. We also liked that it incentivized

14:29playing a bit of a different game from, is it, where, is it was often all about, you know, goblin electromagnetzer, we drag on knots, you know, spam lots of InstaSource res, which is obviously an awesome way to play, but we wanted something different. And so getting you to play and pay, you know, huge mana costs and do just like the biggest, most over the top thing ended up being just something that we really enjoyed and was obviously a big part of what Prismari was doing in the original Strixie of N2. Yeah, the, the big challenge was Prismari was, we wanted to not be Ravnica. The blue and red was about InstaSource res in Ravnica. Yeah, it's a struggle. Now that's why we went big spells. That's how we ended up with big spells, because the, the, the play thought of your talk was like, that was, is it? So we wanted to have something different. Exactly. Um, but yeah, you know, this was pretty much exactly the mechanic that was from vision and early set that we just ended up, you know, codifying again because we felt like it would add

15:29some nice hooks. You know, the biggest thing here was just open discussion about spend five or more mana or a spell with mana value five or greater, you know, ended up being a lot of pros and cons, a force of will being on the mystical archives. Like, oh, it is, you should force of will trigger your opus. Um, but we ended up landing here and I'm actually really happy that we did it ended up being a pretty nice hook with, you know, some of the mystical archive cards still like I think burst lightning is like a really awesome glue piece of, you know, great one mana spell that perfectly kicks and ends up costing five mana. Um, and, you know, is fundamental to triggering your opus abilities. There are a lot of flashback costs that end up, you know, being cheap to cast but have five mana or more flashback costs. So, you know, the mana value of that spell is still low, but you're spending more mana. And so there's good through lines and red. A lot of the prepared spells ended up wanting to

16:32cost, you know, a lot of mana because they were pretty onboarding. And so it made just five mana, the sweet spot. And I'm pretty excited. X spells matter to ended up playing in nicely from quadrix. So lots of ways to have big mana sinks. Okay, let's move on to wither bloom. Um, where did infusion come from? Uh, you know, infusion is a really simple one honestly. If you gained life this turn reward, uh, you know, we do life game themes all the time. We know that they're really popular and fun. Obviously infusion wither bloom is a fun twist on it because we do a lot of life game themes, but so often they're white black or they're white green doing it in black green is a little different and cool. And yeah, you know, something that we always have to talk about when we are doing a life game theme and a set is just figuring out how we want to reward the life game. You know, do you want all of these? A Johnny's pride mate style cards that are, you know, whenever

17:37you gain life, do something, do you want binary checks of if you gained life this turn, do something, do you want to care about how much life you gain, reaching, like, you know, gaining three or more life in a turn to like hit a threshold and play with like food or something like that. And so infusion just kind of ended up being the easy solution for, well, we know that this is what wither bloom is about. We know that we're rewarding this in a lot of different ways. This is just kind of a nice way to, you know, say, all right, here is how wither bloom is caring about life game. And now we get to put this line of text on all the cards and, you know, just kind of like streamline how we wanted to think about it from the set design perspective. Yeah, so just to add a little story of my own, we just had a, I just did a little draft with Secrets of Trick Sabin. We got the cards in early, so we did a little draft. And there's a card in the set called Poisoner's App Apprentice. Yeah. You can be two, two, it's an orc warlock.

18:38It has infusion. It says when the Screacher enters, target creature deployment control gets minus four minus four until end of turn if you gain life this turn. And I drafted a couple of them. I really was like, am I supposed to play this? So I ended up putting them in a deck and it was awesome. Yeah. That definitely played your point. If you're playing wither bloom, definitely play your Poisoner's Apprentice because it was, it's really fun that they just made me figure out like, okay, God, it gained the life. How do I do that? Because I'm not going to play this like in the life, but there were a lot of ways to do that. It was, it was super fun. That's kind of becoming giving MVP for me when I was even sure it's going to go on the deck. No, that's actually really funny. This is a card that is kind of near and dear to me. I like it because I agree, you know, it sort of ends up being a bit of a teaching moment, especially with our new pest tokens that are instead of dies gain one life, they're attack gain one life. And so I love cards like this that pretty loudly tell you, you know what? Actually, sometimes you're supposed to play your creature post combat. You know, that's actually a good time

19:40to place things, you know, make your attacks first and then see what your opponents do. And this card is really teaching you, yeah, attack with your pests and then play me and figure out how to make it work. We also ended up getting it templated so that it works really nicely with like ETB gain one life effects with how it's triggered. But this card actually, I modeled it after vengeful rebel, which is a pretty similar design with revolt from aether revolt aptly. It's a three mana three two with revolt when it enters if a permanent left the battlefield under your control this turn, target creature and opponent controls gets minus three minus three until end of turn and it's a three mana three two. This is just a bizarre, but aether revolt taladesh limited is my favorite limited format. Just I ended up drafting so much of it on magic online and in PTQs it was just a delight and something tickled me about getting to like put in a

20:45card that, you know, was one of my MVPs from aether revolt limited into here even though it's, you know, a different theme and a slightly different function. I had actually just sent a message to Ben Hayes the other day about, hey, this card's here, aether revolt limited will never die, who was, you know, the lead of that set. You know, before we move on, I just want to say, I draft this set, if you, there's a card called bog water lumerat, green two two, it's a spirit frog says, whenever this creature or another creature you control enters you gain one life. Oh my goodness, take this card if you're ever playing with their balloon. This card with the last card we've talked about, it was a great combo, but anyway, just, yeah, absolute little tips and it's really cute. Mark, you need to take it because it's really cute. It's really cute and amazingly good. So, you know, it's the little tips for all the people playing with their balloon at, uh, it probably says such. Okay, so let's move on to lore hole. Well, you talked about a little bit, but let's just talk a little bit about once you decided that flashback was just lore hole, what did you do with that? Yeah, I mean, lore hole admittedly does get to a cheat a little bit

21:50because, you know, their theme is really this whenever one or more cards leave your graveyard, dot, dot, dot, and that was kind of the running off point. There was a different world where maybe we gave that inability word, frankly, but instead flashback was their word because it was so good, you know, the history, the flashback and that line of text is just unkey worded on a handful of cards. And so, yeah, you know, you're just trying to fill your graveyard a lot, trying to get things to leave slowly, surely, you know, one technology piece that we actually deployed here to that I appreciate a little bit of a color pie experiment, uh, here is the middle bottling that we have. So bottling is what we normally do with exile the top card of your library. You may play at this turn until the end of your next turn named after Elken bottle. But here, you know, there's a little bit of bottling like normal, but we're like,

22:51oh, we really want to care about the graveyard. And so there are a handful of cards like I'm looking at tablet of discovery that has when it enters mill a card, you may play that card this turn. And so, not something we normally want red doing, we don't want them to mill lots of cards, but just this once we're allowed, you know, do a little bit of mill because it's, you know, you're approximating exiling from, you know, casting it once a turn, but it ended up kind of being another nice tool that greases the wheels and lets cards leave your graveyard. And I think that the theme is working pretty nicely. Oh, definitely. Okay, let's move on to quadrics and increment. Quadrics. This is my favorite. I ended up, I felt really good, actually. I kept saying in interviews that I was quadrics. And then I just went to Pax East and we have a magic mirror quiz that I think might be at Vegas too of, you know, filling out the quiz and figuring out who your college is and during some downtime, I filled it out. And I was quadrics. So I'm glad I wasn't leading people

23:53as stray. Yeah, increment. So whenever you cast a spell, any spell, if the amount of mana you spent is greater than this creature's power or toughness, put a plus one plus one counter on this creature. So yeah, we were struggling a little bit with figuring out what we wanted from a quadrics mechanic. You know, quadrics was still doing a lot of things with plus one plus one counters because they tied in nicely with their fractals. And there was an expel matters theme that was in from vision that we thought was really charming and we wanted to preserve. But we ended up figuring out as we played more and more that it just worked better in a light dose as just like something fun that you could draft, but wasn't the primary strategy. But we still wanted to like hook into that and support it. And so we had tried a couple of different things, but I remember I was talking to Chris Mooney about this of trying to figure out, you know, what the faction keyword could look like. And they had pitched an evolved riff, which, you know, evolve, which is a similar

24:57mechanic. It's when a creature enters. If it was bigger than the current creature, you put a plus one plus one counter on it. I think evolve is an all-timer. I think it's a really fun mechanic that people remember. Well, honestly, a little surprising that we haven't returned to it. I think just we haven't found the exact right spot. Well, we will. My, my, my day. Exactly. You know, I agree. It's like certainly a win not if. But we just ended up thinking, oh, what if we could take a little bit of a spin on that? Because we know that there's something awesome about that formula. And we ended up tinkering with it and found this, which, yeah, again, works really nicely with a lot of your expels, just like big mana spells that Prismari ends up like wanting you to play. Quantrix is usually pretty ramp heavy. And so it definitely rewards you for just going bigger and bigger. And there's a little bit of that mathy sequential nature that, you know, where we were trying to see it into of we want you to feel clever and smart about, you know, really like planning your plays and lining them up perfectly. You just want to point out before we move off the, the, the

26:02factions. It's interesting to note that in each case, the themes you're talking about were there, not all of them had a keyword, not, but, um, like, Quantrix clearly was messing around with expels space and stuff. And this, this plays in that space really fun. Um, so it's interesting to note how even though we handed off a file that was structurally different, the actual what the schools were up to didn't change all that much as far as structurally. I agree. That's why when I look at this, you know, obviously superficially things changed, but I still see a lot of what was handed off. And, you know, which is the point that was division. And I think I saw it. Okay, so next we're going to talk about prepared. How easy or hard was it to make prepared spells? You know, I would say pretty easy, which was great because I think we really like it. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's something that we see more of in the future. So prepared.

27:05Obviously, you know, creatures enter, prepared or become prepared. Otherwise, while it's prepared, you may cast a copy of its spell doing so unprepared is it. And then kind of like adventures or omens, they've got their spell in the other half of their text box. And so, you know, I'm like, looking at studious first year that prepares rampant growth and iconic magic card. But, you know, the card is actually kind of approximating, you know, like borderland ranger, you know, three mana enter, get a land and put it onto the battlefield like wood elves or something like that. And, you know, I just felt like it was just, I think we knew that it was just going to be awesome from the jump. It was just so epic and awesome to get to write powerful existing spells. It was so in line with what strict saven was all about too with the mystical archive and, you know, harkening back to magic's history and learning from the greatest instance and sorceries.

28:08And, yeah, I would say it overall just ended up being pretty fun. You know, we learned a lot of things that I've already sort of seen real world sentiment agree with of, you know, it's really awesome to get to use existing magic spells. I think that elevates the mechanic even further. And so, we certainly tried to do that wherever possible. But at low rarities and on a couple of cool rares, we explored the design space and, you know, made new stuff where it made sense. And similarly, it's really easy to make cards that just enter prepared. They're the most simple to play with. They end to just kind of understand. But it's really awesome and aspirational to get to have ways to re-prepare yourself and get to cast your spell again and again. And I think players are agreeing with that. And so that was sometimes the most challenging part of development was I think this card would be awesome if it could re-prepare itself how and figuring out, you know, what quest made sense, especially when you were trying to solve that for how can I cast ancestral recall over and over again or something like that. Okay, we have two more mechanics to hit and then

29:12we're gonna wrap up for today. But all right. So let's talk paradigm. This is another sort of old mechanic redone. Well, you talked to me about epic mark. What? Talk to me about epic. Well, epic was made by Brian Tinzman. I think he was trying to figure out how to make like legendary spells with his original inspiration. And so he came up with this idea of a cycle. I think it was a rare cycle of time. But anyway, it's like, how do I make a spell that's so epic? Well, it happens every turn. Except he was worried that that was too good. So he put a small tiny drawback on it. It is. You can't play spell through the rest of the game. Yeah. You know, something about that cycle, like, has endured. Even though it, you know, isn't a super successful mechanic, I think you have rated it among the lowest. You know, it's just a little harsh. A little harsh. But you know, like, enduring ideal is like

30:18such an iconic magic card, like people still play that and try to play it and want to love it. Because it just does something so incredible. And so we had just been thinking about, you know, ways to add a little more judge to the set. We were trying to find some cool things. And especially cool instance and sorceries. And we were really trying to explore how instance and sorceries could affect the game in a variety of different ways. You know, we had some build around instance and sorceries. We had some rate cards that were removal spells or card draw. We had some that were kind of creature token based and, you know, filling in the creature curve. But we're like, oh, what if we could find something that was awesome and had this, you know, enchantment-like effect turn over turn. And we're like, oh, I guess that's kind of like epic. And we just tried to figure out, could we make epic that didn't have that drawback? What would that have to look like? And we ended up play testing with it and it turned out we could. And so we were pretty excited. Okay, so the last mechanic is another returning, or this is a

31:20returning mechanic. And if you had had me guess, like, named what returning mechanic is going back, I don't know if I would have guessed this one. Which is converge. How did you, how did converge come back? You know, the archaics are these crazy multi-armed avatars of like inscrutable magic and colorless crazy monsters. They are some of the main antagonists of the set, especially the dawning archaic who you see in a bunch of art pieces and is pretty cool. We knew that we wanted to have a little more of a focus on these archaics. And at the same time, when I tell you, think of a massive colorless, inscrutable monster with, you know, magic, you can't fathom. That sounds a lot like Eldrazi. They don't look like Eldrazi very much. But, you know, like mechanical overlap was definitely there. And so we were trying to find ways to make the archaics feel distinctive from other things that we've done because they are cool and awesome

32:23in their own right. And we were also trying to, you know, still think about how can we add depth and replayability to the limited format. And so one of the ways that we do that from times to time and factions, that's especially are these like five color archetypes of, you know, here's something extra you can do on your, you know, 10th draft. And it just kind of ended up being a through line of we had all of these colorless creatures that we wanted to include. And we're like, oh, well, what if instead of them being, you know, colorless colorless, they were converge instead. And they were our five color archetype. And then they're so antithetical to Eldrazi. Eldrazi care about colorless and stuff. And these old, or these archaics care about all the colors. And we had a gotten buy in that we could make a couple of archaics that were tuberid too, which ended up into the final file and looked pretty sick. That was actually an original idea from Annie from vision too, which we ended up coming back on after they had been out of the file for a little while.

33:24And so it just ended up working out really nicely. The kind of two things dovetailed into one. And converge gave archaics a life of their own and gave us another archetype that we really liked. Well, anyway, we're bugger wrap up here, but I want to say that it all came together really cool. I mean, I've, I've been getting a lot of feedback from the audience and everyone's really, really excited. I'm really, really excited, Mark. I mean, yeah, I've been hearing and seeing the feedback too. And it's overwhelming. So I can't wait to play. Well, anyway, I thanks for joining us today, Reggie. It was fun to have you on talking about your first, your first lead. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait to be back. So everybody, I'm now at my desk. So we all know what that means. It means the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. So I'll see you guys all next time. Bye-bye.