How to Wake Up Excited About Your Goals - Chris Bailey - #1077

0:00Given all of the work that you've done, why is it that some goals feel effortless and others feel like a chore? It's such an interesting question and that that was what I Wanted to figure out with this book because I find with my own life I'm productive on a daily basis. I'm focused on a daily as you would hope get given I study this stuff for a living Looking at the research for this stuff for a living, but there were still Goals that kind of fell by the wayside for me You know, they're exercise equipment that was in the basement that I hadn't really followed through with You know things that didn't really fire me up inside that I found that I wasn't really accomplishing and so That that was what set me on this journey to write this book is seeing that we all have a sort of graveyard Forgotten goals every single person on the planet does and so what is it that actually separates the goals That we're able to achieve and follow through with From the ones that were not and you you when you dig into the research on this topic

1:03So I dug into the academic literature on this topic. I actually spoke with a lot of Buddhist monks who you know No more about intentionality than Almost any demographic I would argue even the scientists that study intentionality and goal attainment all in an effort to Untangle that web of Essentially goal attainment, right? Why is it that we attain some goals and others they feel meaningless? We procrastinate on them that we You know, we kick them down the street for another day or they're just not something that fires us up inside and so You discover a web of factors. You discover, you know procrastination is his one Angle right we procrastinate on some things when we follow through on others Values are another angle actually where you know values my eyes have always glazed over when I've heard the be drinking there By the way looks pretty old. This is I this is one of the rare times that I'm drinking something that I'm not sponsored by this is a while

2:05This is a bloom pop Hold on. By the way, everybody everyone's like, I want to know what it is after procrastination. He was talking about values So this is this is a bloom pop so my friend Greg Levakia He owns this company called bloom. They do green strings and this is a Like a poppy or an olipop if you're familiar with that. Um, is that a you think? No, I mean it takes us dude. Oh, okay I'm Canadian though. Well, okay, you maybe it hasn't got there. You guys have just received the fucking wheel jacks. Um This bloom pop stuff fucking reps dude. It's so tasty. I'm a massive fan of a chilled beverage. I'm a big chilled beverage guy so highly recommend this is the Raspberry lemonade and I'm not sponsored, but Greg wasn't my house for The Super Bowl and he brought around cases and cases of it. So I'm nice. Well For not sponsoring you first of all, but yes, there's this web of of things that That affect how much how many of our goals we attain from you know procrastinate the answer

3:10For procrastination to to values To desire there's a lot of science behind desire as well and social contagion And so you discovered just how many little nodes there are but a lot of the little things That that either lead us to do something or not they seem to orbit around both a version Which leads to procrastination as well as values which sounds like an incredibly Fluffy topic, but I promise it isn't there's real science behind that too. Okay. He talked to me about the science behind values Okay Yes, so whatever I hear the word values my eyes have glazed over because I think you know some corporate Consultant will come in and they'll give you a sheet of paper and there's a hundred values on it And this is exactly what comes to my mind when I've heard it and That there'll be a hundred words on the page and they'll say circle the the things that you value most on this page And there'll be words like humor and grace and love and health and fitness

4:13So you know all the things that we all care about And so you know part of me will want to circle the whole page because I think how can I be against any of this stuff But all you have to do to figure out values is go to Google scholar and type in values the research does come right up There is Incredible research in my opinion that was started by Shalom Schwartz He's probably the world's foremost expert on values in the world where essentially there are 12 different Fundamental motivations that we all have on a deep and fundamental level So these vary from you know Looking at you you self-direction right would be one aspect the accomplishment is another strong value for a lot of people But they vary right pleasure is a fundamental human value as well Which is one of my highest self-direction and pleasure are my highest So I love going my own way doing my own thing thinking my own thoughts, but I love

5:18A gigantic Plate of butter chicken at the end of the day for example, so we all have the a different combination Of these 12 values you know from self-direction to conformity is actually a fundamental value to tradition humility is a fundamental value as well To benevolence so kindness universalism Which is protecting the welfare of people and of nature I have the wheel in front of me here So I'm cheating a little bit with the ones I miss so self-direction Stimulation, which is loving novelty um pleasure which is called hedonism in the research, but that has a lot of you know Sultry connotations I guess Achievement power is a fundamental human value curious. It's it's lowest overall Cross culturally especially face is a value. So how you come across to other people? That's what that means Security is a fundamental value. So that's personal security and societal security That's been going up in recent years

6:19Tradition got that conformity think I mentioned yeah humility universalism and benevolence So these 12 fundamental values we are all a a distinct Combination of these 12 we have some in spades like for me self-direction and pleasure slash hedonism and some are super low for us So powers one of my lowest value conformity is one of my lowest tradition is one of my lowest And you know like attracts likes so we're probably very similar listeners are probably very similar in these regards But we all have Different values that are strongest for us and these are what motivate us The most on a deep fundamental human level Goals on values though No, no, so So goals The interesting thing about goals that I really Started to believe in speaking with the monks you're right goals are not values

7:22But I think goals and values are both almost intentions in our life Right because a value is something that we intend to be over the course of our life right we intend to be Somebody who is secure and so that might lead us to different Priorities like fitness for example a lot of people invest in fitness for that value of security other people might value the Accomplishment value and becoming fitter other people might you know to have a body that they feel proud of for example and and goals are Intentions as well right because there's something that we plan to do over a longer period of time And values are intentions as well because there's something that we intend to be And so this is this was the very interesting connection is You know an intention is just a plan that we're going to do something and So that values are a type of intention Priorities are a type of intention right because there's something that we plan to be they kind of live between

8:28Our values and our goals goals are a type of intention because there's something that we plan to do Priority you know priorities our goals and also the plans that we make our intentions and the things that we Are on our to-do list on a daily basis our intention So this is the fascinating this is why the book is called intention because we have all these different Layers of intention in our life and so by understanding these layers and How they can work together with one another That becomes a superpower that is one of the best things that we can do for goal attain Okay, explain to me how all of these different things slot together I imagine that you must have a hierarchy of the way that these things end up becoming a pyramid Yes, oh yes, they are kind of shaped like a pyramid because you can think of the I'm flipping through the book I don't what what what's the ratio between how many people Listen to these things versus watch your interviews now that you can do

9:28Video on Spotify It the audio platforms aren't even Insulated from having to look at us. So it's it's a it's pretty high. I mean if you even just YouTube versus Spotify is nearly pretty 50 50 there's a lot of audio audio is huge Yeah, it's audio is actually probably about 60 percent but um Yeah, it's uh A lot of people will be looking but you might have to describe what you're about to show I was just flipping through the book while you're chatting and there's one of my wife's hairs on the book For some reason So this is something in the book that I call the intention stack. It's flipped on my screen But it'll probably flip it looks like proper. Okay, perfect. So you can see How's this for production quality holding up a picture from from elite absolutely elite This is this is top tier s tier production quality right here So you can see that the width of one of our intentions is How long we we express it over right? So at the very bottom of this

10:29It's kind of shaped like a like a funnel all most We have our present intentions. These are the things that are honored to do this right You know, we have a tiny intention to tie our shoelaces to go for a run or something And then we have above the present intentions now now you got me all self-conscious because so many people watch your podcast I think it how are my nails today because my nails are you look fantastic So Above the present intentions we have our our plans which are a bit broader So the present intention to tie your shoelaces might fit into a plan to go for a run And that might fit into even something broader than that which is a goal to run a marathon in a certain amount of time Which might fit into a broader intention than that called a priority which might fit into becoming Ultra fit which might fit into a value which we talked about so fitness value it Actually it varies depending on gender which is interesting for fitness Type priorities where as women are more likely to

11:33See becoming fitter as an expression of pleasure right because they feel better in their bodies Whereas men tend to err more on other values like security right feeling Strong and stable in their body as well as values like accomplishment. So So this is what I call the intention stack in the book Where There's this beautiful alignment that can happen when we have a goal that we set which is kind of a medium Term intention in our life When that is aligned with a value That becomes far far more motivating than a goal that isn't so you know to keep with the fitness example I think a lot of us build our Fitness goals around the value of face right how we come across to the people right I want six pack Abs by beach season so I can look incredible whatever whatever it might look like Um, I like butter chicken too much for for goals like I'd like a true Canadian

12:33Yeah, yeah, Poutine beaver tails, you know, hit all the Canadian staples Poutine is actually do you know Poutine right yeah, okay? Okay, good. I'm happy that that is one of our Strong cultural exports But if you don't value face that goal to look a certain way by a certain amount of time That's not going to be motivating for you And you're going to find that you have this this headwind for the goal all throughout the process where If you value security or benevolence for example having a goal to Develop an incredible cardiovascular system for Longevity and to be able to play with your grandkids late into late age whatever it might look like That's far more aligned to not only your values, but because your values make up who you are There's that motivational alignment too and so goals feels the far more effortless in that way I click aside if you've noticed your energy isn't quite what it used to be even though you eat well and stay active

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14:35That's timeline.com slash modern wisdom Why is it the case then that intentions feel slippery Because a lot of the time we have We start off with an intention And over time we end up doing things that aren't aligned with that intention Now sometimes that's because we've genuinely upgraded To something new our intention has become has been supplanted by a different one But other times it just feels like we're not acting intentionally We kind of look back on our day And we ask ourselves what did I contribute to or what did I do And you don't really know What do you think about intentionality as an idea Yeah, so that's the interesting thing about intention So intention at the same time is not only the key to accomplishing our goals It often leads us to not accomplish our goals So we have the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions

15:35And it's because And I've really started to see goals as something different Over the course of writing this book and chatting with the the scientist But also more so chatting with the Buddhist monks In writing this book where there's kind of a reframe I think that we have to go through with the goals that we set Where we see a goal as something that we are going to accomplish Sure that you know that that we should compare our results to right But I've started to view goals and I think this is a much better frame for them As almost a prediction Right every goal is a prediction Where you believe your current and your planned actions will take you Right and so So often those predictions those goals which are really predictions in disguise They turn into expectations For how things will go

16:35Which then turn into Disappointment when we inevitably aren't predicting the future properly Which we're horrible at predicting the future right We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow let alone oh We don't know if the hot water tank is going to break in our house and flood our basement and up and all of it We don't know if a kid is going to you know get sick and have to stay home We don't know how things are going to end up But when goals are just predictions in disguise I really think we have to internalize that idea and edit our goals as we go on Right because we we develop this attachment to how we believe things are going to go And so we set a goal we develop an attachment to it turns into an expectation which turns into Inevitable disappointment usually To take New Year's resolutions for example, which you know are have mostly fallen by the wayside by the time people are Will listen to this podcast or watch it You know 92% of us fail at the New Year's resolutions we make because we set them with these beautiful hosts

17:40Right we're like We're like you know that that classic trope of somebody who just arrived in New York City and they you know She she hops off the bus and she's got this big smile on her face And then you know cut to a year later when all the future that she didn't predict ends up happening and then you know She's in her one bedroom apartment looking all sad or something The same thing happens with her goals because they really are predictions in disguise So holding them a bit more loosely and I think editing them and dropping them is also a really helpful strategy Seeing them is not something that's fixed But that we need to revise over time and then often drop When they're not working out is an incredible strategy For actually following through with them because we get closer to what we actually want There has to be a difference between Default intentions and deliberate intentions though. Yeah Yeah, and this was a surprising

18:41Thing that really came up in the research where you think of an intention as being always deliberate right You know we intend to do something so we do it Or not Right a lot of the time But there really are these two types of intentions so Like I was saying a little bit ago and intention is just a plan that we're going to do something And we set plans to do things both Automatically right which are called habits right So you wake up in the morning and maybe your phone wakes you up and so you you tap you swipe around between a few different apps and you respond That's habit energy which is what monks call you know just living on our default intentions but eventually A time will come when you Snap out of those default intentions that you have when you're lying in bed You know you're not really feeling What you're doing and so you think okay? What do I really want Here in this situation. What do I really want to get out of my day?

19:44What do I really need to accomplish? We all have these little moments of awakening where we go from Being on autopilot mode Just doing things in response to whatever is happening around us to tapping into something that is called our self reflective capacity Which is our ability to look inward to where we really wish to be going what we really want to be getting out of a situation And interestingly the that you know, so we go from living on default intention to these deliberate intentions And we snap out of just this autopilot mode and really decide where to go. It's quite a beautiful A transition actually and the more we do that the more You know deliberately intentional we become and the more we end up accomplishing of what we want right we need these moments of awakening Where do our defaults come from? Oh, I love these questions um They come from a lot of different places so I remember early on in the writing journey asking

20:49Among where do intentions come from in general and he listed a lot of different sources that actually mapped on top of the research from The social environments that were a part of right we have these this phenomenon of social contagion where you know There's the classic saying we're the average of the five people we spend our most time with We have our desire to avoid pain and experience greater pleasure We have You know, and so that leads us to you know walk up and say hi to somebody at a cafe or just connect with somebody or go on tinder Whatever it looks like right um, but we have our biology too, which you know, it's probably connected a little bit with the tinder example But you know, we're on a road trip for example, and we feel the urge to go the washroom And so we set an intention to stop at the next you know, rest stop for example Um, but we also have so those are the more Default places that intentions tend to come from

21:51But then we have this gradient where we transition from living on default Living on autopilot mode just not really achieving the goals that we set but you know doing fine We're kind of Maintaining the life that we have we go from Being on deliberate on or default autopilot mode to being more deliberate about what we do So one of those places that intentions come from are the lessons we've learned right see listen to an incredible book A great podcast you read a book you listen to Chris or the other Chris me you know sharing ideas or whatever it might look like You learn something And what that does is it puts a learning loop in your mind so that when you encounter The same situation in the future you'll respond with a different Intention from the one that you had originally Um, and the deepest ones come from a place beyond that right I think what one of the times I was on in the past You know, we were chatting about scatter focus this mind wandering mode where we just let our mind roam free

22:57And we find that it wanders to the future a remarkable amount of time 48% of the time that our mind is wandering. It's thinking about the future So you know, we're taking a shower for example We're going for a run. We're going for a walk and we're listening to classical music or something It with a notepad in our pocket and we always unearth ideas. We always unearth plans and we always tap into this Intentional Capacity that's in our mind to set different intentions From the ones that we would be would be doing on default. So It looks very interesting in practice where you know often becoming more intentional To break out of the mold. It looks like more wandering Sometimes because that gives us a different way to go Then the one that we would be inclined to do by default This episode is brought to you by Jim Shock you want to look and feel good when you're in the gym Jim Shock makes the best men's and girls gymwear on the planet. Let's face it

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25:00And not really choosing the direction that you're going in or taking agency life happens to you You don't happen to life and yeah This uh, I think a lot of people struggle with the tension between structure and Sort of serendipity might be a good way to to put it from a cognitive standpoint Yeah, and it's very Interesting the the little gaps in our day as well where that that's sometimes where our greatest intentions come from You know, it's in these little moments between things. So you know if if we're having a conversation if we're right after this conversation We pick up our phone or something You know intentions might never occur to us that would be incredibly valuable to us If you're walking to a meeting or something right you're at your office or something You're walking to a different office in your building and on the way there you're on your phone Intentions aren't going to occur to you because you don't tap into this wandering boat

26:00So that there really are these two levels of wandering where we have the little gaps in between the things that we do Right, especially before and after we do something that that's sometimes the most fruitful time to wander because Beforehand you set an intention because you're thinking about the future and the the impending thing is so front of mind That you're more likely to wander to it for about you know, then about half the time It's probably closer to 75 80% of the time that you'll be thinking about the future just automatically Setting intentions and after two right it's the learning loop where you can set different intentions or Think of action items from a meeting or you know something as simple as that or you know, you have a meaningful conversation So at a coffee shop with a good friend or something and so you can reflect on it on the walk back home instead of just Filling your attention to the brim or distracting yourself You'd actually internalize something that leads you to set different intentions

27:04Later on and so so the default intentions that we have you know a lot of them are habits but we need some Reinforcement mechanism almost so that the more deliberate things we do can change our defaults if that makes that Yeah, it does. I think I had a I got a bit of stick for suggesting that New Year's resolutions are important On a podcast a couple of months ago And I'm not saying that there's anything special particularly about January 1st, but the point that I did think was kind of interesting is that people are already Obsessing over the future and ruminating about the past. They're just doing it in an unstructured way Yeah, right. It's just invading your life. Yeah, it carines into consciousness You don't know where it came from you don't know how long it's gonna linger you can't get rid of it Yeah, and then it leaves and you go I guess that was kind of like me Planning and reflecting except for the fact that it felt bad

28:04I didn't mean it to happen. I was supposed to be doing something else and it wasn't in any way productive or contributing to my life Well, okay, why don't we then Every so often just take a little bit of time take it down beat But speaking of that you know New Year's resolutions kind of one of the go-to Garden variety productivity tools smart goals or another one And you seem to take a a bit of issue with smart goals something that every business Undergrads from all times just become familiar with what's your issue with smart goals? Yeah, yeah seriously I actually have never had an issue with them Until I encountered the research on them. So I I personally thought smart goals would be a shoe in for this book And because I've written about them in the past they sound incredible right these goals that are specific measurable attainable realistic and time-bound smart right it sounds Like it should work right, you know, they're smart. Do why would you set dumb goals or something Um then you look at the research on them where

29:06And if you don't believe me, you know And I hope to actually stir up a bit of Controverted mercy with this, but I can't wait for the productivity community to be up in arms They'll be using the fucking Alfred extensions and then notion templates to send you big long arguments about why smart goals are actually underrated and overrated They're gonna they're gonna have their keyboard, maestro Scripps automatically interact with clod co-work to do a deep research and to just what's wrong with me or something I don't know But it's it's so it's so interesting because I thought they'd be a shoe in for the book right aren't specific goals incredible Aren't you know, don't we want our goals to be attainable that sort of thing But the when you look at the research and if you don't believe me go to google scholar and type in smart goals See what comes out you might be as surprised as I was um It turns out realistic goals often aren't good enough Right we're limiting our potential when we make a goal merely realistic

30:09um because When we make a goal challenging the research shows we actually achieve more than we would otherwise by simply Making it kind of a low hanging bar or something that we can just step over and there's also redundancy In the criteria right so aren't specific aren't measurable goals also specific for example Um, and what I looked into the into the research on where did this actually come from and it came from the smart goals originated as An article in a management review uh It wasn't an academic journal. It was just kind of an article somebody wrote on how to better manage your employees And it didn't stand for what the current acronym does today And so it's kind of like the you know the 10,000 Uh Step rule or the 10,000 hour rule these nice kind of things that sound like they should work and so there's a Virality that's associated with it that you know kind of gets morphed in a

31:10Cultural game of telephone ever since they were introduced and so I This was actually quite a big surprise for me because these sounds so good and I remember you know Encountering this research writing about it in the book um, I actually had a little bit of a chapter drafted About smart goals inside but I thought okay need some research backing here You know did did a deep dive into the research and found that there's you know a lot of researchers say that there's even research Waste that occurs around smart goals because it seems like they make sense to study so many businesses do them I can't wait to hit the the speaking circuit for this book and and tell every business Yeah, exactly really just You know cause controversy within all these companies and stuff Productivity controversies are probably the lowest Stakes and least important controversy you can ever imagine some political ones at the moment that seem equally stupid

32:12But yeah, yeah, there's stupid controversy and enough of it to go around it At any given time and this kind of outraged Driven algorithmic world that we're in but yeah smart goals Maybe we should have something because then we could say actually better goals that are rooted in Not only our values, right? We can edit our goals over time so that they're better fit for our values We can actually overcome a lot of the things that are getting in the way of our goals too Like a lack of alignment with the social environments. We're a part of like procrastination which is another Huge huge Inhibitor to just how much we're able to accomplish and in our day in our life Yeah, let's talk about let's talk about procrastination like I have to assume It Procrastination gets in the way for lots of people That there's a thing they understand their intention. It hasn't got slippery It hasn't dropped out of their mind and for some reason the thing that they need to do in order to move themselves toward achieving

33:16the intention for some reason They can't get started or they keep on stopping or something so what did you learn procrastination big picture? Yeah, so big picture Very big picture there are for any goal We have this function of desire Where we either desire doing it which is usually aligned with our values actually so the more aligned Something is with what we value that's our motivational nature are unique Motivational nature I should say And so that's the desire component the values component but then there's the aversion component where To get the how much you actually care about something or want to do something you have to subtract How much aversion you have to doing it from the amount of desire and sometimes we end up in the negative And so there's a lot of goals that we don't want to follow through with there's the negative amount of energy around that goal And so we punt it down the street for a later day. It's called procrastination

34:17But the interesting thing about procrastination is it's a purely visceral and emotional Reaction to something that we don't want to do there's very little logic embedded within it whatsoever. So You know, it turns out that there are certain Triggers that a task can have that lead us to a greater amount of aversion which leads to procrastination So those are whether something is boring More boring something is the less we want to do it frustration Is another one so the process of doing something is very frustrating unpleasantness Right, it's just something is just not pleasant to do when something's far away in the future Right, the further away something is The less we desire to do it because we can Justify to ourselves. We don't feel you know that the impending deadline of having to do it When something is unstructured as well

35:17That's another trigger of procrastination and the interesting thing about that is that one kind of frustrates me because You know you can structure things You know if you if you feel aversion for that reason You know if you don't want to go to the gym because you have no workout plan or something Um that is very solvable, right? The other ones are kind of uglier. They're messier Taking the list from the top again Yeah, so boring Frustrating unpleasant far away in the future unstructured and the final one is meaningless So it's not aligned with our values which we've which we've covered. Okay What are the Easiest solutions for people Yeah, there's some of those feel a little redundant like boring frustrating. Yeah meaningless They feel I'm aware we're playing semantic games here, but they seem a little similar What's the 80 20 what's the 80 20 of people overcoming procrastination? Hmm

36:17Is something unstructured Structure it You know that that's the lowest hanging fruit for for for procrastination and usually you'll find when you cross reference and you're right There there is overlap you know, there is some debate in the research on whether these are distinct characteristics of tasks But generally, you know, you can kind of Because you'll find that when something's aversive it sets off multiple ones, right? You don't want to do your taxes because they're boring. They're unstructured. They're frustrating. They're unpleasant And so you procrastinate and maybe they're they're you know, you kick them down the street for a later day But structuring things is some of the lowest hanging fruit you can do for so how can you add structure to doing your taxes? Can you just hire somebody to do it right delegating something is the easiest way to overcoming Procrastination on it when it's something that's a delegatable So add structure and go back to goal editing right if you have a goal that's really aversive for you

37:19But it's still on your list and you really See the tangible payoff of having done it right not of doing it Not the enjoyment of doing it, but the tangible payoff of having done it Edit the goal so it's more in line with your values right turn the goal from that Six pack abs by beat season face goal into that goal of you know having a feeling secure in your body That your heart isn't going to attack you in retirement or something right connect with the deeper meaning behind it And connect with that you know your top two values for example But also, yeah, make it do what you can to make it an actual enjoyable process for you And this goes back to the unstructured nature of a goal Where also unpleasant presumably yeah also unpleasant also boring, you know Frustrating you know a few of these different things at once Can you do it over I don't know a fancy latte can you do

38:19Can you you know have it a resistance list? This is one of my favorite productivity strategies where you know Make a list of everything you're resisting doing and then a set of rewards that you can treat yourself When you do those things right? Maybe assign a number of points that you can redeem for those rewards or something I call them habit points in the book So you know there there are ways of making the process more enjoyable making a game out of something that you don't want to be doing So upping that enjoyment level however you pause having a you know Glass of wine or whatever that colorful drink is that you're having what while you're saving it for that period period of time Habits stacking right where you invest in the habits that you Are kind of like guilty pleasures almost on some level Investing in those when you do the adverse of things, but there's so many different You know overcoming the resistance level we have to things

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40:20what about the I get I'm thinking about stuff that's just going to be tough That you're just sort of facing and there's not really anything. There's sacrifice reward dynamic There's no way around this and it's just going to suck I guess you could try and stack listening to good music that you enjoy at the same time you could go to the coffee shop to try and make it a little bit easier Uh, I'm just wondering how people get how many times there's someone right. I've got my favorite song on I've gone to my favorite coffee shop my latte and fuck I opened Instagram shit. Whoops Yeah Yeah, and so so this comes down to often giving yourself No choice but to do something. So um, you know freedom is one of my favorite apps on the computer for this reason I'm not affiliated much like you in that drink. You know this but I guess should be sponsored by what's the name of it again Bloom pop bloom pop um and freedom

41:23Freedom is one of my favorite apps. So are you are you familiar with it? Do you use it? I use cold turkey, which I think is something similar. Yeah, the same difference freedom cold turkey I think self-control is another one where essentially you disable access to a lot of the things that you find More attractive than the thing that you really ought to be doing Than the thing that you want to be doing over a broader period of time So personally whenever I write I find I gravitate the things that are more interesting than writing I'll want to check my email one more time. I'll want to you know fire up social media I'm not you know big into social media But sometimes I'll fire up social media see what my friends are up to check the news You know whatever might look like And so freedom Disables the things that are more attractive on your computer than what you ought to be doing You can specify a block list ahead of time. So even if you you want to access these things

42:26You have to restart your computer if it's in the time period that you specify Another one of my favorite habits is a version journaling so So what I'll do is I'll grab my notepad which is always by my side as I work in my Pilot precise v5 RT pen, which you know as long as we're throwing productivity Uh fire out there or whatever it try trying to cause controversy. This is the best pen available You can come out and available. Yeah, it's the best pen available. What what makes it the best pen? Oh, have you tried writing with a What's it called pilot precise v5 RT Chris? No, no tell me about it. What's the experience like? Oh, wow It what the it won't come through a video right? Okay, yeah, this is the same as who's your girlfriend in school? And it's like how she goes to a different school you wouldn't know Hey, no, no, no, no, I promise. I promise. It costs like two dollars People can try for them. So you'll never go back My wife and I got in an argument one time

43:28Because I said the pile you know, I know what the best pen is you and she said no, I know what the best pen is And we had this argument before sharing what pen we were talking about turns out we were both talking about the pilot Precise v5 RT, but what I'll do with the pilot precise v5 RT is Real is right off the tongue doesn't it? It is I'll grab the notepad and I'll do some I call it a version journaling Where when I find that I'm resisting doing something I'll write down why you know and it won't sometimes it'll be as methodical as going through each of the triggers, you know, is it boring? Yeah, is it frustrating? No, but it's really boring. So I'll go through the triggers sometimes or it can be more Lucy goosey more casual, you know, I'll just grab the notepad and start writing Why do I find this thing so ugly and what can I do about it to counterbalance that ugliness? Right to to make it less aversive and I always leave with some tactical thing that I can do

44:30To make it less ugly for myself And if not that, you know my relationship with a change is a little bit I understand what makes it so aversive And so give yourself a choice to either do some aversion journaling or do the thing And so eventually the time will and you'll gravitate to the journaling at first But you'll end up untangling the knots that you have to doing something And overcome that resistance to doing it so the interesting tactic, but it works Almost without fail for me personally I might I think it will for readers listeners to viewers What about the difference between ugly goals and attractive goals Because there's some again, I'm trying to think about as much objection handling as possible There are some things that are just funner goals than others There are some goals that are uglier and some goals that are more attractive Hmm

45:32Yeah, it's just every goal is a bit different on that fundamental level And so you know often you'll edit a goal And you'll get it to as good and good as shape as you possibly can And it's still ugly it's still fugly in a lot of cases And so you got no choice at that point to decide it is this goal worth pursuing And you know sometimes the fact that you have tried to edit a goal Um extensively and you still find it ugly You know sometimes that's a sign that it could be worth dropping when it's just fundamentally not Aligned to who you are and what you care about But then you have the goals on your list that's like you know lower my cholesterol or something Which probably a few people want to do but if your cholesterol is high you should probably do it And so then you have the goals that you really ought to be achieving and so the limous test is you know is thinking okay Will I be happy that I did this thing and what tangible difference will it make to to my life because

46:37I forget who said but the somebody said you know for our days To for our our days to be different our life needs to be different I think you know you can kind of transpose those for our life to be different our days need to be different What what do your goals look like on a tangible daily basis Because another trap we fall into a lot of times and I call them sepia tone goals where you know we have these beautiful fantasies of you know just exactly how different our life will be after we integrate a change into our life The one that comes up from me Is waking up at 5.30 every morning So I love this idea of being an early rise you know and I've struggled and I've Integrated this goal into my life several times actually where you know I'll wake up at 5.30. I'll do all these you know things that Feel like they should be good in my head. I'll meditate like I usually do and I wake up. I'll go to the gym

47:39I'll read the paper. I I was gonna say still get the physical paper, but I'm not that old Um I read the physical paper though that arrives every morning You know all these holy things with the morning, but then I realized that I Absolutely hate the ritual right I have to go to bed in order to get a good enough sleep when people want to hang out when good hockey games are on when When she's actually happening. That's interesting in my life Um, and so there's this idea of a change sometimes that is sepia tone That leads to these tangible changes that we don't really actually want um, and by the way for waking up early if you're a A night owl like I am that actual research on it. I believe by Till Ronenberg Um has found that there's no difference in somebody's socio economic standing based on their wake-up time So people wake up at 8 a.m. Are just as successful as people wake up at 5 a.m

48:40But it's how deliberate how intentional we are with our time uh, that makes the biggest difference You know still wake up at yeah 738 read the paper meditate just everything is just shifted over Do you think? How many goals do you think people have that are just kind of socially acceptable cause plays of ambition? I think so many people love the idea of saying that I have this goal the big and Maybe the reason that lots of people aren't achieving their goals and their intentions is that if they were to look a little bit more closely They'd realize that they weren't theirs They're doing it is this sort of cool trendy t-shirt that they can wear that when other people ask them what their goals are They can say oh, I'm I'm I'm doing a keto diet or I'm doing meat and fruit at the moment. I'm I'm micro-dosing Well, you know, I'm do I but that's not actually what they want. It's what they want other people to hear them saying that they want Yeah, yeah, I'm micro-dosing meat and fruit. You know whatever it is

49:42That's such a big part of it and so you know one Tactic that I'm a big advocate for is keeping a list of your goals Yeah, and I divide mine based on context So personal and work and inside I list the goals under the values that they're a part of And when I started doing this I did realize that there were a lot of goals on the list like waking up early is one of them Where I feel It's still interesting, you know that the the guilt that we experience when we don't follow through with The expectations that other people have of us like waking up early or so I know all the research And I know what works for me. I know what my biological prime time is which is when we're wired to perform I know all these things. I know I Have a better life. I enjoy life more. I do better work. I create better things when I wake up later But still I feel guilty when I roll out of bed at a later hour than you know then whatever I

50:46Deem justifiable in my head and so there there is this, you know, I love I love the cosplay A phraseology that that you use and it's interesting because I feel our relationship is different depending on our Values in that context where you know conformity is one of the fundamental human values Some people do value conformity and so if that's you which is Probably unlikely if you're listening to this podcast But I was hanging out with with a couple people last night who's you they identified that as one of their highest values Which I found interesting But if that's a high value for you and there's a goal that other people expect you to achieve What the research shows is you will actually find it meaningful To achieve that thing because you're living within the expectations that other people have of you But if you don't have that value which it's low for me. It's probably low for you too knowing knowing you to some extent

51:52You're not going to find much meaning and you know for me my value of self-direction is so high as the highest By a wide wide margin and my value of conformity is so low that if I feel I have to do something That'll make me Not want to do it. It'll make me want to rebel against the expectations of the other people have of me But there still is that fundamental guilt so it really is a you know So it's kind of like when you ask somebody how you know how's work for you in this? Oh, I'm so busy You know, I have so much going on Where the busyness you know people overestimate how long they work for first of all But second of all they wear that busyness is almost a badge of honor of you know, oh the The world needs me so much, you know and I'm so wanted by the world so needed by the world and be so I'm so busy We have kind of a similar status projection with our goals sometimes But you know tapping into that this what makes tapping into that self-reflective capacity just so

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53:58They just give you your money back right now You can get the brand new whoop 5.0 and that 30-day trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join woop.com slash modern wisdom. That's join.woop.com slash modern wisdom. Yeah, I suppose Look social pressure is a hell of a Improver to hell of a assistance when we want to try and get something done It's why you train harder when you're in a class than when you're on your own typically I guess How can people make their Goals and intentions feel deeper there's certainly some that resonate with us a lot And then there's others that don't so much but we wish we That they did is there something we can do to make goals sort of feel deeper Yeah, so the values component is one and that's a big one And there is you know you're touching on the social environments that we're a part of There are kind of a lot of productivity extremists out there I'd call them you know

55:03People who you know, they'll say never surround yourself with people who don't support you and your goals But life is just more complex than that, you know, we have good friends that have bad habits, you know speaking personally What when I'm around family a lot of their I'm not gonna call anyone out But a lot of their habits aren't conducive to you know the goals that I have but still I'd be a cold and heartless to to weed them out of my life or so, you know some But but but there are it's kind of positive social contagion That I think we can introduce for a lot of our goals where if you have a big new goal a big new habit that you're trying to integrate into your life You could really reflect. Okay, how can I actually double down on how much contagion I'm experiencing for for this goal? And so there is that level of deliberateness that we can layer on top of whatever that goal is Where is it can I join a running group?

56:05You know if if my intention is to To you know get a certain workout time or a certain run time If you're joining a knitting group, right? I used to be a bigger knitter than I am right now And I wanted to get more into it because it's a great way to scatter your Yeah, yeah, and so it's all like for people to get yeah, and there's a knitting store in the city that I used to live in Um, I'm not a good knitter You know by any stretch, but I found it a great way. I love the smirk that you have right now It's like I'm blown away by the fact that there's people getting together like CrossFit on an evening. Oh, yeah Cross knit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be good Yeah, well, I'm no good like I can make dish claws and stuff, but But when I was a part of the knitting group in in the city that I used to live in Man, I like my level of improvement with that habit was a different curve than it is right now if anything It's uh, I'm kind of letting the habit die right there's a knitting store in the city that I used to live in which which hosted this kind of meetup all

57:11You know older women the some of the Like my favorite people in the world We're in that group um, and And so you know having that social k-tage and because of root can really support you in the habits that you want to form Um, that's one way to make it deeper and that nothing feels deeper Um in our life than uh human to human connection All right Taking all of this together What's this what's the structure someone Is bought into the fact that intentions are important They realize the procrastinations there. They've got goals. They've got actions. They've got daily daily purple all the rest of the stuff What's the best way to put this into a format to follow? How should people design better intentions? Mm-hmm Yeah, so it's interest something that I really believe now is becoming More intentional is a skill that we can get better at over time. So you know, if you look at your level of follow through um

58:12The book was originally called follow through but it has a weird weird connotations in the UK that I was not aware of Uh, if you're probably familiar with them right follow through it. Yes. Yeah. Yes People can go on urban dictionary in their own time But if you're looking to increase your level of follow through with your goals. I should say It'll make sense when you look it up Um, that was like totally out of left field for me having to rename the book because it's such a good It was such a good encapsulation originally called follow through. Yes, it was Wow, yeah, well, no, you only need to re-wit rename it into you uh in the UK who'd have been fine in the US Well, yeah in the US it would have been fine if the UK publisher really Ray and marketing is so awkward when you have differently named books I'm fortunate that only my subtitles have been different across geographies But but realize that Increasing your level of follow through is really a skill that you can get better at over time So it may be you set goals you set intentions right now and maybe

59:16For a given goal you follow through with it. Let's say the default right 8% of the time We follow through with our New Year's resolutions Maybe when you resolve to do something big you follow through with it 8% of the time But you can build this skill of intentionality and you can build these practices of intentionality For you know, there's the obligatory Ugly stuff lowering your cholesterol you can deploy the procrastination habits on those so just looking to get started on something one of my favorite Tactics out there is shrinking your resistance level to doing things So if you're writing a book for example and you have free to mom or something cold cold turkey on but you're still resisting it You can shrink how long you do it for and tell you overcome that resistance right it adds structure It makes the less boring less frustrating all that stuff. So you might think okay. Do I want to write for an hour No way in hell. What about 45 minutes? No, what about 30 Mm-hmm. What about yeah 20 I could write for 20 that and and so you overcome that resistance

1:00:22By shrinking how long you do something for being kinder to yourself in the process so you know So the procrastination for the obligatory ugly things The procrastination tactics are very helpful for those but usually There's more latitude in editing our goals than we believe right so Maybe there's some project that you don't want to do what one one you know this one example right Maybe you have to write some employee handbook or something and so you know on your to-do list It's right employee handbook or maybe you're making the list of goals. It's right employee handbook And that's aversive right it feels like something you have to do which fits with that value of conformity But maybe you added it maybe your biggest value is benevolence so Helping other people maybe it's self-direction so going your own way. It's a better goal a better frame for the goal might be you know mentor

1:01:22new employees And get creative with the handbook project So you might actually perform the same set of actions under each goal But one feels like something you have to do that isn't aligned with what you value The other feels like something that is actually connected with with with what truly motivates you on that deep Fundamental human level. So know your top values as well So you know, we mentioned the 12 of them earlier in the podcast won't go through them again We've already talked about them But what top two are the strongest for you and how can you align more of your goals to them right the easiest way to tell if something If a priority if a goal is aligned with your deepest values is you've done it already Right because the best most aligned goals they feel effortless. They feel like just an extension of who we are So okay that covers Procrastination let's give it a little system for people that that covers procrastination on the ugly stuff

1:02:23editing the stuff that Can be framed differently Increasing your desire right modifying your social environments, but a big one where you see and you accommodate the different Layers of intention in your life is setting intentions across multiple time frames at once One of my favorite rules for this is the rule of three, but I'm trying to remember I'm one of the past times we were check did I mention the rule of three Maybe give us again Okay, so All this is is you know at the start of every day. I like to Start with the goal on the on daily basis because then you see kind of where the rubber meets the road And you can Begin to form different intentions so at the start of the day You fast forward to the end of the day in your head and you ask yourself What are the three main things I will want to have accomplished by the day's end That's it where the three main things I'll want to have accomplished by the day's end and because you can only pick three

1:03:30It forces you to To prioritize what's on your plate you have to choose three things that are important and everything else that isn't But if you find the rule works every day you might think okay, what are three things that I want to accomplish this week Right Maybe in a work context and a personal context so that when you set the daily intentions You can look to the weekly ones and think okay, how can these contribute to the broader plans that I have so in this way your daily intentions begin a begin feeding into your plans And so when you set your weekly intentions you can look to your goal list Right, you can think how much of this stuff do I want to bite off today and so You begin to develop the different layers of intention that you have in your life your daily intentions fit with your weekly intentions which fit with your plans your goals which can fit with your values as you edit them more over time

1:04:32So This is kind of the skill that we can develop in setting better intentions over the longer arc of time and upping our level of follow through The goal kind as well as our level of accomplishment if that's something that you value What do you think I know the books new Yeah, what do you think is something that people are overlooking from this big thesis that you've put together you know you've got The the obvious things that people go to zero in on probably the insights around procrastination and ways to reframe intentions and stuff like that But is there something the so a less sexy but powerful Element that you think most people are overlooking Yeah, my I'll share my personal favorite it is That our values are constructed out of our default intentions So our default intentions they form

1:05:35Uh a shape and so you you can look at and the shape is the values that we have so you can look at all the things you do by default and There's always an underlying motivation behind the things that you do by default right you Have a default habit of meditating because that allows you To Get closer to what you want with self-direction or you know, so you feel more secure in your mind you feel calmer You have habits to you know call friends and that might connect with Different values of benevolence and and serving others But even even the simple things right over reading or something might fit with that biological need for Security and not starving you know so from the deeply deeply ingrained To the default intentions that we form so That these form

1:06:36The framework of our values and this might be two in the weeds for an answer to this question that's interesting But I think this is very underrated where our values are made out of the things that we do by default And it's for this idea that I think our default intentions aren't you know That they're not just something to get frustrated by you know, why do I Overreached or why do I do this? Why do I do that? There's something on on many levels to admire Right, we can observe ourselves acting Through pure habit energy and you know playing with our kids on habit Whatever it might look like and I think our default habits you know Sometimes they're worth getting frustrated by and setting a different intention after something we've learned maybe or maybe after tapping into that self-reflective capacity But I think other times they're worth marveling at right we have all of these Frankly in my opinion beautiful

1:07:37default intentions that I think make us human right because we're not only ingrained in a certain way to To act in a certain way, but we also you know We can also admire that the person that not only Nature has formed but but also that we have formed through the decisions that we've made in the past and that those deliberate intentions that We can layer on top of the defaults of our life That's only that that's that's this wonderful way that we can go in a different direction and really guide ourselves and Our lives to go in a different way and goals are a big part of that but values are a big part of that priorities plans and daily intention so I just think marveling At our defaults is An underrated idea from the book I can Chris Bailey ladies and gentlemen. Why should people go to check out everything that you got going on? Oh, oh, yeah Well, first of all, thank you for having me on on the pot again intentional how to finish what you start is the name of the book

1:08:42If you feel inclined to check it out. There's an audio book too. That's your style um Chris Bailey calm. That's where my news Letter is and then all the good stuff they can find in the I don't know where you want to call it the Chris Bailey verse whatever Yeah, thanks for having me on again. I got you man. I appreciate you. I like your work. Keep on doing it Oh, thanks buddy great to chat with you always if If you are looking for new reading suggestions look no further than the modern wisdom reading list It is 100 books that you should read before you die the most interesting life-changing and impactful books I've ever read with descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them and you can get it right now 4 free by going to chriswillx.com slash books. That's chriswillx.com slash books