Why You Can’t Behavior Yourself Into a Great Marriage

0:00I can't behave yourself into a great marriage. I had to trust the Lord and allow him to transform me completely. Welcome to the Grace Marriage Podcast. I'm Brad Rhodes. And I'm Marilyn Rhodes. We're here to help you build a marriage that's stronger, more connected, and full of grace. I'm Rick Dayton, joining Brad in Maryland. If we bring you weekly conversations designed to inspire and equip you to live intentionally in your marriage, we'll share practical tips, powerful stories, and strategies to help you and your spouse grow closer and thrive together. So whether you're just starting out or have been married for years, there's always room to grow. Let's do this together. This is the Grace Marriage Podcast. Welcome to this episode. This is Brad Rhodes. And I have a friend in ministry, Candace Nassar. And she is a passionate voice for emotional health,

1:01and spiritual formation, and for cry center relationships. She wants people to grow and self-awareness and deeper connections. So welcome to the podcast, Candace. Thank you so much, Brad. I'm really excited to be here. Well, why don't we start? But you just kind of introduce in yourself to our audience and kind of tell them it's like, kind of what, how the Lord brought you into the ministry you're in and what your ministry is. Oh, I'd love to. Well, as you said, I have a passion for helping people grow in the Lord. And I came to Jesus as an adult. So I was 30 years old when he met me in a Bible study for moms that had childcare. And my marriage was super on the rocks. And I came from a lot of dysfunction. And so when I met Jesus and understood that he died for me, it just completely changed my world. My husband ended up coming to the Lord and we were able to raise all three of our kids

2:01in a Christian home. We're cyclebreakers. We both come from divorce and it is not us, but our parents. And so I just have a passion for helping people understand what God can do in a life and in a marriage and in a family when you don't have the tools at all. And I can't behavior myself into a great marriage. I had to trust the Lord and allow him to transform me completely. And now of the married, almost 35 years, I've a granddaughter and all of those things I completely give glory to God. So I guess it's kind of the seek first, it's kingdom and all these things will be added to use kind of what your kind of ministry is. Yes, yes. The ministry that I lead is a discipleship mentoring and a ministry where we help moms integrate Jesus into their everyday life and just live out their faith, disciple their kids, transform their lives,

3:05their confidence, improve their marriages, all of that. Well, we'll get a little more specific and cause you know, I think there's real power in testimony, you know, because most people that have a passion for people's lives being transformed by Christ have had their life transformed by Christ. So tell me kind of a little bit more detail about your story and about how things change. A lot of our listeners are, you know, they try to impact marriages and they talk to people about marriages. And so I'd love to hear more about your story and what they could learn from it. Well, so I think the biggest thing is my husband and I are both chiefs. I have a master's degree and came into, you know, our marriage feeling very smart and sure of myself and thought that I was gonna have this great career. And somehow we didn't come together on the fact that he was raised in a very traditional home. He wanted to, he was raised in the faith. Well, he was, he was raised Catholic and I wasn't raised with anything.

4:05And so I liked that fact of him, that bowed him, that he had that grounding, but he wanted me to really focus on raising the kids. He wanted this big family like he had and we just came to an impasse right away when I wanted to keep working and he wanted to, he had a different vision for our family. And he's very strong and wanted to lead and I wanted to lead. And I didn't understand the biblical model of that at all. And so that was a big thing in the beginning for me to process that as I came to know Jesus and his heart that we were a team and I was the co-pilot in a sense that somebody had to be the final say and so I could stop. And I still to this day struggle with it, but just allowing him to lead instead of trying to control everything. And a lot of that came from fear, right? Fear that he wouldn't do it right or fear that

5:07we would end up like my parents or whatever. And so I think that that was probably the starting place of me realizing that I couldn't, I didn't need to control the marriage that that was really God's job that I needed to stop trying to control things and out of, you know, and control the outcomes. But you seem like you can spiritual leadership is a big controversial thing, you know. And you, you see two ditches, you know, one authoritarian, narcissistic can be abusive. Then you see the other passivity, lack of leadership, you know, kind of if you could kind of tell how would you tell folks to navigate the spiritual leadership waters, both it's like when you're trying to disciple marriages but also in your own marriage. That is such a powerful question. I think the first thing that I had to learn was that, let me think about this for a second. I think that he wanted me to come under his leadership

6:12but at the same time he didn't really have that understanding of the Lord's being his head, right? And so we had to, it was really a lot of both of us, me, him learning to hear me and listen to me as I was saying this, these are the things that we need to do together and getting mentors, getting counselors, getting being in community in a strong Christian church that we were able, we saw people, we saw the role models, we saw the people who had marriages that lasted and we wanted that. So we began to try to lean into their advice as well, as well as just constantly being in the word. Both of us having a desire to have a good marriage and learning what was getting in the way of that. And so the spiritual leadership, I think he wanted to lead

7:13but not necessarily spiritually. And so when he began to understand what that looked like, I could allow him to lead. And sometimes it meant me getting my back all the way to the wall to give him some space in front of me. And it was a lot of work, I will tell you that. And just allowing, again, praying together, both of us, we would have these really bad fights but then we really loved each other. And so we would lean in, okay, what just happened? And really it's in the recent last few years that we've really truly learned the patterns of that we got in childhood that has impacted our marriage. So that's been a big thing too. But that's great. And I know when you're talking, you talk about the phrase growing in love and you talk about people that we love most often

8:13get the most reactive version of us. So what do you mean by that? Well, when we're at home, right, we let our guard down and that behavior that we can present in public, I think we can't manage it the same because we let our guard down, the stress comes in and it's our closest relationship and that reveals the pattern, that stress reveals the pattern that we've learned, that we've seen and that we've practiced a lot of times just how to habit, not even realizing it. So some of us want to attack, some of us avoid that kind of thing. And so, and transactional love, really. You know, growing in love, I mean, a lot of us know the verse from a current, everyone knows it almost. If you, I mean, even in my, before I was a believer, I knew first Corinthians 13, love is patient, love is kind.

9:15It does not envy, it does not boast, it does not proud. We know that and yet living that out in our marriages that expose that part of us, that you and I've had this conversation about how marriage is so sanctifying, right? And so those traits, those characteristics of love, are, we can't do that in our own strength. And so overcoming those patterns and that transactional feeling of, you know, I'll love if you love me, I'll give as long as this is fair. That's not Christlike love. Yeah, you're right, it's like, and really the only person that really knows you is typically your spouse. Mm-hmm. Because like, I'm in Berlin, I'm married, I told them, I was like, everybody else likes me fine. You know, what's your problem? You know, it's like, it's like when I'm at work, seem like people dig bread, okay, and you don't dig bread, but she's the only one that really knew me. And I've heard someone say, the person that knows you the best

10:16likes you the least, there's probably something wrong with you. And so it really hit me, but you know, when you're home, you can't hide from your spouse because you live there. So they, they see withdrawal, they see, you get it angry, they see, they see sides if you nobody else sees. And that's, that's, when you say that's part of why marriage is, is, is the bet is the most satisfying human relationship, but also the most difficult human relationship. Right, right. It is, you know, we, we're with them all the time, or more than anyone else. And so they're definitely going to see that side of us, that true deep down sin nature that we have. And so we have to, we have to learn to absolutely surrender that and, and just lay it down every single day. And pray, I mean, I have had to pray, Lord help me, show me how to love my husband, show me how to love him today. So that, you know, I can, I can walk in your will.

11:19And, and it's a lot of times it's just an act of obedience, but then the heart follows. So, and we've all said, one of the beautiful things of marriage is like, when somebody knows the very worst of you, and they're still your biggest fan, there's something really special about that. Like, Maryland, Maryland knows, like nobody knows my thoughts like Maryland, but nobody thinks more highly of me than Maryland, which to me makes the relationship, you know, it might have met George Straitsong, you know me better than that. You know, you know that me that gets lazy and a fat, you know me better than that. And it's talking about like another girl that thinks the world having these like my life. She knows me and still loves me. Yeah, there, and I, to this day, I'm amazed at the love that my husband has continued to show me over the years when I have done some really ugly things and said some ugly things and been just appalled at my own behavior. And, and I love Jesus. I mean, I've been, I've been all in since day one.

12:19And I'm in the word and not, you know, and, and yet, I still have these reactions that are so ungodly and he continues to love me. And so that is, that is a security. And then of course, going back to what is the heart, where does love come from? It comes from the Lord, right? And so knowing that my husband, that my Jesus loves me loves me unconditionally and that he loves, I love because he loved me first. Having that security, that's where the love comes from. Well, the interesting thing is, so your spouse sees the worst of you, they see, you know, stress manifests more in the home than we kind of covered up when we're in meetings and things. So they see the worst, they see the worst of us, they see the negative emotions, the positive emotions, which does make marriage more difficult, but it also makes it more meaningful because there's a deeper knowledge, a deeper understanding, a deeper interconnection. So the fact that Marilyn knows my struggles

13:21and knows my ditches and knows all that, she knows me more in your deepest relationships where there's the greatest knowledge and not just the knowledge on the positive side of the ledger. Right, that's right. I completely agree and it's, it's a gift. It's honestly a gift and it's worth fighting for. And I think, you know, I read something recently that more millions and millions of women in their 50s and 60s today are just quietly quitting their marriages. And I just found that so, so sad because it's, I've continued, you know, it is hard. You have to continue to work, you have to continue to lay down. It takes a lot of humility, you know? I mean, honestly, that's the core of it. But the satisfaction of coming out on the other side and having that incredibly close, just beautiful friendship and relationship, it's so worth it. And that's, so that's why, you know,

14:22I read that statistic and I thought about all those women just living as roommates and it just broke my heart because it's possible. Well, and there's a hopelessness that drives it. You know, see you have wives that have cried out to their husbands and you know, I wish we were closer, I wish we dated more. I wish she spent more time together. I wish she, and then just didn't happen. Well, yeah. Then they just get to a point where, you know, it is what it is. I'll just settle in to, I'll find this norm I can tolerate and I'll have a, it's tolerable marriage is possible and it's good a life is possible outside of the marriage. So what is it, what would you tell a woman who kind of feels like, you know, I've cried out for more attention. I've sought more attention. I've tried to sign up for marriage stuff. He's not interested. He's fine the way it is. I'm not, but I'm just having to learn to be fine with it. How would you counsel that woman? Because there's a lot of them out there. There are and I would say I, there was a bit of time when I was stuck in that and one of the things I had to understand

15:24is that I can grow even if the other person doesn't change. And so I just decided to focus on myself and my walk with Jesus and continuing to learn to lay down my sin and my pride and just focus on my responses and things. And you know, I, one of the things I learned is that I'm very critical and I'm critical of myself and I could be very critical of my husband and he's an avoider. So he's gonna take that as a, you know, he'll just go in the other room and we don't have those discussions that we need to have to to, you know, work through the conflict. So I guess what I would say is start by focusing on yourself and even if you've done that, just keep doing it because that's all you can do. And I know for me the more that my husband witnessed me making changes, having different responses, doing the things that I wasn't doing before,

16:25it encouraged him. It really did because there's gotta be some person that starts to make the changes. And if you're really honestly following Jesus and obeying that light will shine brightly and just keep clinging to Jesus because he sees you, he knows that you're in that situation, he is with you, he is your friend, he is your father, father God and he will help you through. You can get through it. Yeah, and Marilyn, early in our marriage, so Marilyn got to that point pretty quickly because she cried out for more attention and I just didn't give it, you know. So it was like, she just kind of lured in my sentence to a life of this. You know, it's like this is it, it's not good, you know? Right. But then the Lord's shoulders said this, I'm sufficient for you, Marilyn. Exactly. Marilyn came to me and said, and I've shared this on a previous podcast episode. She said, she said, I don't need you.

17:26She said, I'll do my best to be your godly wife but she is my joy, my happiness, my security, my beauty. It's not hitch to you, it's hitch to Jesus. It's not 95% Jesus, 5% you. It's 100% Jesus, 0% you. She said, I'll do my best to receive from Jesus and be your godly wife and walk closely to God but I am not going to be, I'm not going to get, my joy is not just going to go up and down based on how responsive you are. Yeah, that's a heart, that's what, when I talked to you guys, I was so impressed that she got that early because to me that took many, many years to come to that because my role model looked, my mother looked to men to complete her, she was not a believer. And so I thought my husband should complete me, should make, he should be the source of my happiness. He should do all the things I wanted him to, he should be the way I wanted him to be. Well, that's just, that's not who God created him to be. And so there was a lot of humility and laying all that down and it took me years to get to that

18:27and just seeking God constantly and him to fill me up and find that security in him and not my husband. Yeah, and I think I helped her because I was a very bad non-responsive idol, you know, so I was thinking, I was such a non-fulfilling dude that you know, it made it easier to look elsewhere. But I do think that one of the reasons a lot of marriage is strong all this, because you're asking for it for something I can't give, you know. Marriage doesn't make a man feel respected. And marriage doesn't make a woman feel beautiful. Marriage doesn't make a woman feel secure. Marriage doesn't make a man feel like a man. You know, that comes from a confidence in Christ and a security and integrity and those things. But a lot of times when we don't feel respected, well, it's because my wife doesn't respect me or we don't feel beautiful. My wife, my husband doesn't make me feel beautiful. You know, it's, I think it's really seeking from the source and not making the ultimate source horizontal

19:29but making it vertical. Yeah, I mean, really, and if we think about it, it really is kind of an idol to think that some other person can meet those needs for you when only our father promises to meet those needs. And then it's, but what's so ironic is that when we do look to him completely for that, then it improves our marriage because then we can love sacrificially. We can initiate, we can have Christ like love when we're secure in our love and him and that Christ like love transforms hearts. And it's so good. And it changes the lens of which you look at your spouse because you know, you don't kind of look at your spouse as this being that makes my life better. You look at your spouse, this unique, fascinating creation of God that I'm committed to love the rest of my life. And I just was hanging out with a couple recently and they've, they've made the neat transformation because they're totally different people, totally different. One's really anal and high strung.

20:31The other's really laid back. The other one's really in their appearance. The one's not in their appearance. And they were on each other's nerves a lot. And then I've watched them grow. And now they're fascinated and adore them how God created them. And it's a tangible, different feeling when you're around them because all of a sudden they just, they just fully focus on loving one another, not wishing the other was different to make their life a little easier. Yeah. And that has, that is a transformed heart of understanding of where love comes from. And also understanding that God has chosen this person for you. I mean, instead of fighting against it, you know, fighting for it, just saying, okay, this is who God has put my life, why? Well, yeah, how many people are attracted to the exact opposite of themselves and marry that, right? And we know that God sanctifies through that. And so, yeah, that's beautiful. I love hearing those types of stories of when God can just transform hearts and marriages

21:33and we can decide, you know, with his help, we can completely change our view of our spouse. And I'm telling you, there have been, there have been many times when I thought that I was gonna walk away from this marriage, even as a believer because I just didn't think it could change or get better. And here we are at almost 35 years and our marriage is a strong, it's stronger than it's ever been. Yeah, and I think as we close, you know, scripture says, if you get married, you will have much trouble. In the scripture, the scripture says, in the scripture talks about how we all continue to struggle with remaining sin and challenges. So I think also the fact that merging two lives into a mysterious oneness of marriage with different backgrounds, different family origins, different personalities, different priorities, and you merge those into one home. I think people are too surprised when it's hard. Yes. And they're too discouraged when it's hard. You know, I've told numerous couples

22:35in crisis counseling that you're not really in crisis, you're more normal. Now do me with a lot of couples that are truly in crisis, but some of them, they're not even really in crisis. They're just having the normal problem of a merger. I was like, yes, yes. I mean, having, I have a business background. I mean, mergers are extremely difficult and there is a lot of conflict. And so expecting that, absolutely. I think expecting that we, as a society really, we just want things to be easy. We don't want anything to be hard. And so when marriage is hard, especially those first few years, we just want to walk away because we think that's gonna make it better. Well, that doesn't either. I mean, I can tell you that doesn't. So. To sum up, as we close this episode, people don't satisfy people, God satisfies people. Amen. And when we seek satisfaction from our marriage, we live perpetually unsatisfied because we're all jacked up,

23:35because remaining sends a reality. And none of us handle life well. If you are handling life well, just wait a few weeks until for some reason, we feel down or anxious or whatever it is. So it's God created us to receive from Him and love others not to be ultimately satisfied by the horizontal. Yes. And when you can live that out, it's the sweetest thing. And it's a battle. I mean, it's the kind of the reality I've had to wrestle with is you just don't arrive. Like there's times I feel like I'm just, I'm at total peace, I'm loving my kids. And then when this is a great state, and then the next day I raise my voice and my kid and get up and say, what happened? It is that thing that that's Hebrews 4 past, strived, entered the Sabbath rest of Christ. And you've got to strive to trust, strive to rest, strive to love. It becomes more natural as we pursue God,

24:36but it's always a battle. Always a battle. And then we of course have the enemy that's right there screaming in our ear. So. Well, thank you so much, Candace for being on this episode and we'll continue this conversation. So thank you so much for your ministry, your pursuit of Christ, and then you sharing your pursuit of Christ and others to encourage them and the Lord and the people. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining us on the Grace Mirage podcast. We really hope you're feeling inspired to take intentional steps to grow in your marriage. If you enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to like, subscribe, and share it with a friend. Your support helps us spread the message of grace and reach even more couples. And if you have a moment, please leave us a review. Your feedback means a lot to us and helps others discover the podcast. To learn more about how you can grow in your marriage, visit us at gracemarriage.com. Keep building stronger Grace Build Marriages. We'll see you next week on the Grace Marriage podcast.

25:39Until then, keep growing in grace.