Why Innocent People Get Convicted | Lawyer Exposes Corruption

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1:01Now they owe him money. Yeah. It's obvious being on me. So this was all set up from the police? Yeah. From the get-go is all set up. You're always coming straight from law school into the public defender's office or, and you know, I mean, I'm in law school for God's sakes. I really don't know what's happening on the streets, and you start learning real quick what is happening on the streets. So you go from, I got my jurist doctorate to agree to, you know, here's all these S-cords and these drug dealers, and they're telling you what went down and how they got caught and the ins and outs of it. And you're like, I don't know. Okay. I had no idea. Are you, I mean, are you, even, listen, I had 13 years in prison are surrounded by drug dealers. Right. And still to this day, these guys will come and sit down and start talking and I'm like, what, what does that mean? Right. The street because it's always changing. The problem too from their perspective is they think nobody knows what's going on.

2:02Their phone gets searched. They're looking, the cops are looking through all this communication on some Snapchat or whatever. And people think you can't get at snap. You can get at your snaps, please. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, I was talking about a sandwich, you know, I was talking about, no, you weren't. But they know it's pretty obvious from the context. But yeah, I was going to say I read a, I wrote a book called Generation Oxy about these guys that were, these guys that were doing doctor shop and they were like high school students who, as they were graduating, they started this and they went to different, different colleges and got scholarships as wrestling. They were all in the wrestling team and they started shipping it all over the country. But, you know, when you would read the, you know, they have like a, when you read the transcripts of their, of the wire conversations, you know, I need, man, I need, you got any blueberries? I need six blueberries. I need, you know, exactly for Greek, for green apples, it's like, what are you, what are

3:07you doing? Do you, the cops aren't stupid? Like, they think that. Yeah. I mean, they, you're not grocers. No, no. It's pretty funny. Yeah. That they come to you and they're like, well, they don't know what's going on. Oh, no. They, they, they know what's going on. And I had recently, it was a huge racketeering case and it was Oxy and the problem now with the drugs is that the drugs are getting mixed in with, yeah, they're always put, they're putting on everything. Right. And I'm no scientist and, but you could just, I mean, you can put a, remember Dave Chappelle used to have this joke about like, we're going to sprinkle some crack on some right when the cops do something wrong. And that is you just sprinkle a little that in anything that you're dealing. And you can cut it up and you can make it go farther and you can make more money. Right. And then they get smacked for like trafficking. No, I've had several clients come to me, they go, they swore. They were not trafficking and because they don't know their supplier.

4:08Yeah, they don't know what they have no idea what they're getting. They bought this from some Mexican guy who's been, they, and he doesn't even know what's coming in over the border or whatever, but they'll test it. It makes them feel a certain way. And therefore, well, this must be Oxy. This must be what age or whatever, no, no, it could be a hundred other things. And then it just gets more and more serious. So, you know, I know you probably talked to those guys in prison, but it's just getting worse and worse and worse and I, you know, well, I was just thinking the lingo because let's face it, you come down from up north and you're throwing into the mix and I'm, I'm going to go out of my, I'm going to assume that you, uh, you weren't raised on the streets. No. You were probably middle class, you know, you're middle class guy. Absolutely. And you're being thrown in there and you're, you've got these guys coming straight from the projects talking about, you know, yo, yo, yo, see what happened at two doves and, uh, you know, and, and what do they call a stack or rack, five racks and a, this and that dove and you must have been like, right. What?

5:09What are you saying? Fortunately, they would translate for it. But yeah, absolutely. So I get a translate. He's speaking English. I know. I know. So, but it was, you get thrown into the fire. Yeah. And I think the hardest part is not even the law, but the hardest part when you get thrown into criminal defense is just, you know, I'm sure you felt the same way going to prison where you kind of, you start learning about human nature and you start learning about things about human nature that you didn't think you were going to encounter or learn about. And so I remember when I first got to the office, we had this case where, um, these two male dancers, they, they were on tour. They're always male dancing, whatever that is. And they would bring home a young lady after the dance. And so they brought home like this tiny little 90 pound girl and she calls the police and says that she was roughed up and assaulted right now.

6:12This is when I first get to the public defender's office and she wrote a two page sworn affidavit that was just straight out of like some sexual story about how she was abused. And so the cops finally get the statement and they decide to go into the apartment. And the apartment is like what you have set up here. You walk in a front door and you've got a bedroom over there and a bedroom over there. And these two dancers each had their own bedroom and there's a living room in front. And the cops put these guys immediately in handcuffs, right? Because what she was accusing them of and this was in 93 or 94, they'd still be in prison. Yeah. Maybe I gave something away, but the point is they start laughing at the cops and they're like, why are you laughing? What's going on? They're like, well, go behind the TV. Behind the TV, there's a camera. We recorded the whole thing. So the one dancer comes in, he hits record, then they bring the girl in. They bring in a girl, different girl every night.

7:14They record the whole thing. It was completely consensual. She had the time of her life, but they wouldn't give her a ride home. They were just total dicks and she wanted their number to come back again. They're like, we don't do repeats like we get enough fresh from our dancing. And she was really offended. And so you could see her on video calling her fiance. And you could hear, you could kind of be like, she's looking around, she finds an envelope and then she calls the police. They don't know this. They're already in their rooms, sleep and they didn't want to hang with her. And this is bright as I get to the PD's office. And we're representing this girl on filing a false police report because this is a lesson learned in terms of, she's not taking back her story. The cops watch the video, ma'am, you are going to have handcuffs if you don't take back this too. She refused. She absolutely refused. Totally had a way out and everything.

8:14Just still. They gave her a way out and you know, we see this all the time. You can drop bombs on people's lives. You can wreck them with accusations. And really there's no consequences. This is probably one of the first times I had seen consequences. I was just thinking that typically these false accusations, once they're found out to be that they were completely fabricated, nothing happens to these people that do this. I know. So that's amazing. Oh, it is amazing. We're representing this girl because she wouldn't take back the accusations. There's a video. There's a video of her literally walking. The video never stops. They didn't right in front of her bother stopping the video. Right. So long. Remember, VCRs like they ended on six hour mode. So here we are. But it's a lesson learned in terms of as you can't get people to admit their lying. And I know that our clients, they want this show like he's lying and you need to prove

9:14he's lying. Dude, I can't prove. I mean, I can do the best I can. But this woman was confronted with video and she ain't taken her story back. And that's very typical. People will hang on to their lies for dear life. And that's just what if you're accused of something in Florida, that's just what you're stuck with. They want you to do the, was it the Perry Mason? Yes. The Perry Mason moments with a guy. Okay. You got me. Yeah. I lied. Yeah. Now, I'm not a good enough attorney because I couldn't get these people to cough it up. They ain't coughing it up. What happened to her? She got, the offer was 90 days jail. And that judge demanded 90 days and she's going to turn herself in. And that judge got sick and we got another judge and we moved up the court date for the other judge to get her like 30 days. Okay. So she got, she got 30 days in jail.

10:14But had that gone to trial, those guys would have gotten, they still be in right now. 30 years later, they'd still be in. I, I was locked up with a guy that had gone on a cruise with admittedly, and this was probably to his detriment was it with his like his fiancee, right? Black guy. It was his, I don't know if you know this, you probably know this, you know, and this is just something I learned in prison. It's a cultural thing. Black guys. Oh, get me in trouble, but they have what they call a wifey. You heard the wifey? I've heard of it. Okay. So they'll, women that are an overweight woman that's unattractive that has a good job. Right. This guy who's good looking guy, she's never get with him. But they call her their wifey and sometimes they'll get, they'll even marry these women and move in with them and, you know, they, they go to their parties with them and they,

11:15they play the part in front of all their friends, but they're allowed to have a girlfriend. Or two, they're allowed to run around, don't embarrass me, whatever. You stay here at night, you, and that's his wifey. That's kind of European, too. Like the Europeans are like, look, I know he's a man, but just don't embarrass me, right? She's a woman, just don't embarrass me. I would not go over her well. I can tell you that right now. Just saying that I've heard that similar, similar story. I've been using Mando's whole body deodorant and let me tell you, you can use it anywhere. Pits, balls, thighs, and even your feet. Mando's powered by Mandelic acid, so it stops odor before it even starts. It blocks odor all day. I'm talking 72 hours. I love the sense, too. My favorite is bourbon leather. It smells amazing. You can choose from other fresh options like Cloverwood and Mount Fuji and Westpart, no baking soda, no parabens, just clean, safe deodorant for your whole body. I've added Mando to my daily routine, and honestly, I feel fresher and more confident.

12:20It works way better than just showering alone. Use promo code Cox at ShopMando.com to get 20% off plus free shipping. Once again, that's promo code Cox at ShopMando.com. So he goes, they go on a carnival cruise line. There's always shenanigans, too. Oh, it's pure. You could do a whole series of carnivals, they've had it. But he goes on this. He has a room with the wifey, and he's got a separate room. She knows about it. It's on her credit card. She goes to bed for the night. He goes to a bar. Now the bar is after up to 10 o'clock or something, it's whoever is there, whatever. There's no age limit. But after 10, it's like, it's adults only. He goes to the bar, he walks up, girl is there, chatting with a couple of guys, starts chatting with him. He buys her a drink. He said, I'm assuming she's 21 years old.

13:22She's there. The bartender's serving her. He said she proceeds to have several drinks. Somehow or another, and I'm going to get the story wrong, I'm sure. He ends up leaving because she's talking with the other guys as much as with him, and he's like, yeah, so he goes back to his room, goes to lay down, can't go to sleep at one o'clock or something. He leaves to go back to the bar, see if there's anybody else there, goes back to the bar, gets into the elevator, or when he gets out of the elevator, the two guys and the girl are all getting on the elevator, and they say, do you want to come with us? And she looks at him and she's like, yeah, and he's like, okay, so all three of them go to his room, he's like, I got a room, they go to that room, they all have sex with her. These guys leave, he leaves. The girl, I don't know when she left, but he goes back to the wife, the wifey, goes there

14:25five or four or five o'clock in the morning, there's banging on the door. He opens the door and it's two security guards and the manager or something, and he's like, what's going on? They're like, you need to come to security. He's like, what's happening? He gets down there. He said, when I walk in, they tell him, we got to go over something when he goes, when I walk in, he said, the two guys are there at a desk. He said, one of the guys is just full blown, just crying. I mean, he's like, I mean, just, he said, tears running down the guy's nose, just puddling, and just can't, you know, just inconsolable. And he's like, what is going on? And so these guys are just shaking their head. So the girl, what she did was after they had all separated, she immediately went and went down and told the security that these guys had assaulted her, you know, and there were three of them and they brought her into the room. She went back to the room because they'd given her some drinks.

15:27She didn't really know what was going to happen and when she got there, she said, no, and they just, you know, weren't taking no for an answer. And so, and by the way, she was 15. So he, of course, you know, first of all, he's like, he's saying like, and here's what happens when they start talking to him, he's like, yeah, no, we went back, we, we slept with her. We this like, what are you talking about? But these guys already know she's 15 and she gets served 10 drinks. Right. He's like, she's, what are you talking about? And then they, of course, they say, no, she's saying this, she's saying this and, and by the way, she's 15, he's like 15, right, you're talking about, she's in the bar. It's 11 and 1 o'clock in the morning. Right. He ends up going to, and he's, by this point, he's already admitted it. They've already admitted, these aren't police officers. The order of those questions really got him off a little bit. Right. Real bad. So when he gets back, he says, so he basically is told to stay in his room. And when he comes, when they come back to the port and gets off the FBI arrests him,

16:30because it's, it's a, you know, whatever they're in international waters, whatever that the case may be. Kind of like aircraft. So he gets arrested, they all get arrested, but they end up not, I don't think they charge or the other guys got, they got off somehow or another by agreeing to testify against him. And they, even though their stories were less aggressive, oh, I know, I know what it was. The DNA came back with him and not them. And somehow or another that helped them in some way, regardless, he goes to trial. He goes to trial. He pleads guilty. He gets 20 years. It comes out when his lawyer is doing the research. And by the way, he had already passed a police academy. He's going to be a police officer. He's, he's literally, he was waiting. He had been hired, I think, and was going to, and he started in like 60 days or something like that. I mean, and he would, he had been working as a security guard for like four or five years.

17:32So he's like, he's going to be a police officer or deputy or something. I mean, it's just derailed his life. So he's, he gets 20 years. And during the course of the trial, it came out that the girl had a, this was the third or fourth time she had accused someone of an assault, exactly like this. And those had all been thrown out, like two have been thrown out. One guy took a plea, you know. And so. And none of it's allowed in for some reason, federal court, and they wouldn't allow any of that in. So. And like I said, this is, it's funny because Frank, I'm a day, this lawyer in prison was actually handling the case because I actually asked because the guy kind of was telling me it because he wanted me to write a story about him. And I talked to Frank and Frank was, oh, this is exactly what happened went through the whole thing. And like I said, I'm sure I got some of the stuff wrong. But in the end, I think that the problem that he had a separate room, the situation with

18:33the wife, the fact that he's married, that the jury was just looked bad and it doesn't look like. Oh, geez. That's, it's heartbreaking what happens on some of these cases where you just get misled or what happened. Right. I had this guy and he was accused of the same thing. He was a really well, like well built, but he was a black dude in a, in a resort hot tub with two 15 year old girls. And mom comes up, right? And mom sees them like just close together and she goes ballistic and she calls the police. And he ends up playing to an offense, right, against both of these girls. And now he doesn't go to prison. He gets probation, but you know probation is a trap. That's a whole other thing. He violates probation six times. Now I am on the sixth violation. He hires me on the sixth violation.

19:36And he's telling me he goes, I'm innocent. Like I really just took a plea because this is probation and I would go to prison on this. And now, now he has a judge on the sixth violation that is sending everyone away on this type of assault. Right. So I said, okay, you're innocent. I tell you what, we're going to hire an investigator and we're going to go talk to these girls. They're not 15 anymore. They're like 31. Right. So we track one down in Georgia and we record our investigator records the conversation, knocks on the door. Oh, yeah, remember that did he really, no, he didn't do anything. There was pressure from my mom, like he's literally being honest, right? Will you please give us a statement? Will you please give us a sworn statement? Right. Yeah, sure. I'll give you a sworn statement. Bless her heart for giving us a sworn statement. Now you would think this would go well. Yeah. We try to get the other girl. She's like in Guam or somewhere, I don't know, she's, and we couldn't even get a private

20:40investigator to kind of go work her in Guam. They had to do something and she's just doesn't want to talk about it. She doesn't want to do anything to help out. And like he can, he can rot, you know, she doesn't care. So we go to the judge and the judge is not very receptive. Here we are sworn statement. He didn't do it. And then the other girl doesn't say anything. And the judge still hits them for like 13 years prison. Oh, I know, I know. And it was like, that's not the charge you want to go to a state prison with. No, it's not. And I tell you what, like we did everything we could, but I was surprised that nobody for 15 years in a zillion violations had ever looked into the fact this guy was innocent. It's just that a 15 year old girl doesn't stand up to her mom that maybe this dude did something to them and that he really didn't. And it's rough in the state courts sometimes on those charges.

21:44They will bend over backwards to hit you. Yeah. I mean, while I was going to say it luckily, I'll be unlocked up by the, you know, I didn't see a lot of innocent people like I love you. You know, I know kinds of people that are locked up is like, no, I know, kinds of people saying they're, you know, saying that they're, they're all kinds of people that are locked up that are saying they're innocent. You get in there. And I've had met multiple guys are like, yeah, man, you know, like, yeah, this is state. They ding me. There's bullshit and this, but then you start more, you talk to him the more you start to realize me to, I mean, look, I'm telling you like a couple cases and I have a million guilty ones that have done the same thing. But in my mind, what sticks out are the ones that really are innocent. Yeah. There's, there's some guys that it's your guilty, but it's really more just like stupidity. Like you did one stupid thing that got you involved in a conspiracy. And then even then, once you were on the indictment, you could have helped yourself.

22:46You could have done this. You could have, no, I ain't going to talk to the police. Okay, listen, it's, oh my God. Listen, we can't go to trial. But I'm going to try going up the more likely it's like you're more than like I'm going to not say anything. You're right. It keeps taking up. You're still a probation at this point. Yeah. You know, no, I'm going to trial or I'm not going to help. I'm not going to sit down with them and fuck the police. It's like, oh God. Oh no. Here. Stop. Stop. So I've been in there for 10 years in prison because I'm thinking what one case in particular because you answered a telephone. And you pass the message on to somebody or I knew a guy that got, I don't know if he got 5 or 10 years. You got a little chunk of time. Which, to me, it's sad because someone says I got five years old, like wrap it. Right, but I think he got 5 or 10 years because these got these drug dealers were actually where they stole drugs. He was friends with him. They'd gone to high school so they came to his house. sitting on the couch, there's three guys, and then they brought it another guy. And for some reason, he said,

23:48nah, something's wrong with this guy. And he's nothing, this is nothing to do, shut your mouth, nothing to do with you, just cause they're sitting in your room, having conversation. And he says, I'm telling you guys, something right with this guy. That's the police. That right. And the guy, they start arguing. And he's like, I don't, look, I know, I don't know you, I'm telling you right now as a result of that conversation. They put him on the indictment. They're like, you're intricately involved in this whole thing. You know, and let's face it, as soon as they grab a couple of guys, they say, hey, if you're willing to testify on this guy that tried, almost got our officer killed, because he was, he was, he was another covering, he did end up busting them two weeks later or something. And so as a result of that, they didn't think that was cute at all. And of course, somebody says, yeah, yeah, no, no, he's always involved in that. He's, he's helps us out. He kind of helps us plan things. And we've hit drugs in his, you know, they start saying stuff that's not true. He says it wasn't true, right? But regardless, because he got involved and you didn't really do anything, but that's it. You're on the indictment now, it's okay. Those guys are actually in the worst spot.

24:49And that is very painful to see from my perspective. And yours, when you were in prison, is that you have the low guy on the totem pole that has nothing to give. Yeah, like you have 15 co-conspirators and they're all making money with drugs. They're all living the good life. And then you have that dude that just said a couple things. He can't point the finger at anybody. Yeah, so he can't even help. He can't help. He can't even help himself. He can't help himself. These other guys are getting 10 years. He's getting five or six. Yeah, like these guys should be getting 30. They were all involved. They're doing this for years. They still have money. When they get out, they still have money. And yet they did less time than that dude. It's a rigged system in that sense that the less you know and the less you're involved, the more time you're going to get on the conspiracy or reckoning. I think. Well, I have a question. What happened with... So I came across your... Is it TikTok? Was it... I have YouTube and then yeah,

25:50and then TikTok is like the same thing. Yeah. I think it was TikTok. I came across and I was scrolling and I came across and it was just you doing a TikTok. You... There's a... We have an FBI, a retired FBI agent that comes on the program named Tom Simon. And he does these daily TikTok where he just talks about different cases, you know. Within like a minute to two, maybe three minutes of the most. Good that he can keep at that short. Yeah, yeah, congrats for that. He's good. But and so when I saw you, you were same thing. You were standing there just telling the story. So I immediately thought, oh, this is like a Tom Simon. I was like, oh no, this is an attorney. And you were telling the story about the plea deal that was given to one of your clients. And you're... He was basically gonna say, yeah, I'll take it. And you were like, well, there's no... He's giving you the top end. Like, there's no benefit for you to take it. Let's go to trial. And I remember when you said that, I thought, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I went, you're the one that's...

26:52You, because usually the defense attorney's like, take a plea, take a plea, but take a plea. But for you to whips, and I just remember thinking, oh, that's, if that's true, I'm sure it's true. But I remember thinking, if that's true, this is a good attorney. Most attorneys would be like, okay, next, you're out of my hair. Right. That was an asshole judge. And that's the problem. It wasn't like me being this great attorney, but this judge is such an ass. And he would see just like certain people and certain charges. And he'd be like, I'm not taking anything. It's the max. And I was like, well, you're just asking for a trial. What was the, what was the... It was either like battery, DUI. It's just a misdemeanor court, you know? And this happened several times a year in jail. It would be the max. And why, judge, why would you even be that way? You're scaring these people. And then we're just gonna end up going to trial. And I remember when we won that trial,

27:54which we shouldn't have won, like we get lucky as lawyers, we just get thrown abound or something. Like, oh, thank you, Jesus. And then he threw the file across the room. He was so mad at the verdict. And I mean, that was 30 years ago, probably. That was at least 30 years ago. So, but yeah, these judges are... I mean, most of them are nice, I will say. But sometimes they get a little rogue. And what you don't have any choice is the defense attorney, you're like, hey. And they were not gonna give you any more time, even if it wasn't a year, even if it was, what are you gonna do? If you offer them six months jail in these faces a year, probably not gonna give them a year anyway, after trial. So, I don't know. What's the benefit to... Because if you're telling them, you know, well, I'm gonna give you the max no matter what it is. Well, then, so, but they're supposed to be a benefit to taking a plea. Like, you get, just like there's a penalty, if you go to trial, there's a benefit, whether it should or shouldn't be that way, I don't really know the legality of it.

28:56But let's face it, there's a, whether they get, they would say the trial tax, whatever. But there's a, there's, you know, you're gonna get dinged if you go to trial, and you should, there should be a benefit if you take a plea. I should get less than what I'm facing if I take a plea. Right. And if I go to trial, then I should get hammered. You know, I had a racketeering case that just resolved last year. And I don't know if there was a dozen people in it, but several of the guys took a 25 year men man. It was five or six year men, five or six 25 year men man on the drug charges. And I was kind of surprised. At least two people just took 25 year men man, no trial, no nothing. And I guess in theory, the threat of stacking them, like, well, then you could get 50, you know, but I'm like, I don't think the judge is gonna go that hard. Right. But it happens. People will plea to that. They get scared. And, you know, it's a scary system.

29:58So you know that. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't want to be in front of a judge again. No, for anything. What is it that it's the, I used to say that anybody got my, when I was leaving prison, I used to say, listen, I don't know, I'm not coming back. Like, I'm searching everybody that gets in my car. You know, some, you know, some guys got like, oh, that's a good idea. You know what I'm saying? Well, I can't tell you how many guys I've seen there. You're paranoid, but it can serve you well to be paranoid. Right, but I can't, I've seen so many guys that have gone to prison because they were driving in their car and their buddy had a weapon and then they go to get pulled over it and the guys thinking, that's not worried about it, you know. These are not your buddies like you thought they were. Right. Right, and he's, as America turns 250 this year, it has me thinking about the people that really help build this country. Not the ones in history books. I'm talking about American ranchers,

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32:00You're too convicted felons that have drug charges. They're tossing to get out. You don't have no problem. You get out, they search the car. There's a 38 under the seat. You're like, oh, no, no, no, no. You know, I don't have any weapons. I don't know, well, we found a 38 under the seat. Your buddy's sitting there going. And then when they both get their attorneys, suddenly the buddy's saying, hey, what in my car? I don't know what's in that car. Whose car was it? This guy, you know, he's just, you know, and then this guy's on parobation or parole or whatever, supervised release. And now it's like, okay, well, even if you, even if they drop all the charges, you were still arrested for this charge, you could still possibly get a violation. Or if you get charged with it and your buddy agrees to say, hey, it was, it wasn't my gun, it was his gun, it was in his car. So he gets to walk away because he didn't care about you. And then you're looking at five years, you know, maybe more, maybe three, three, it's the mandatory minimum is three, just for being a convict felon in possession

33:02of a firearm in the federal system. If you have drugs, five. And then of course, depending on what you're, if you already have multiple arrests, who knows what it could be? Seven years, eight, nine, 10. If you're a category one, two, three, four, you as a different categories, you're a category six, like you might get eight or nine years. Because this jerk off left a gun underneath the seat. And I, you know, my clients struggle with the science on that end because I'll always ask them, I'm like, all right, dude, is your DNA on this? Is your fingerprint on that gun that's supposedly your buddies? Well, it might be, you know, I checked it out. Well, that's my, of course. But that is my, that's my little checker. Like, all right, dude, what do we got? Can I send this to forensics? And sometimes the forensics will cost more than I cost. Right. So you're talking about a lot of money that the general public doesn't have to send a gun off to a lab. And a lot of the labs are like former law enforcement

34:04anyway, so then it's, oh God, you know, you got to get somebody you can trust to analyze it. And then if it comes back clean, you know, then you're, then you got lucky. But a lot of times, like you said, it might have actually been the dude's gun. Oh, I don't want that tested, you know? Okay. Yeah, don't suggest that. So we get that a lot with the sexual, you know, assault cases where we have to mitigate for these people and we have to explain like, we can pay for a doctor to do a psychosexual evaluation where they'll hook electrodes up to you. They will read you stories to see what your, how your body responds to certain stories because we want to say, oh, my client would never do that. He would never do that. He doesn't have thoughts like that. He's not interested in anything like that. And here's a doctor saying what a great guy is and how clean he is. But then you get these clients, thankfully, that are like, oh, don't bother.

35:06Don't, don't spend the money. Yeah, I'm not going to come back. I'm not going to pass that evaluation. So, you know, yeah, I was going to say, there is probably 40, 50% maybe a Coleman, you know, what did they call it, chose? What's that? You've heard the term chose? No, what's that? You've ever heard the term, the called Cho-Mo's. In state prison, they call them the, you know, people that are interested in children that are underage in state prison. They call them mose. Okay. In federal prison, they call them Cho-Mo's. This is the terminology. Yeah, yeah. But those guys, there's just tons of them in the low security prisons. And these are for photo, for pictures, right? And there was one guy there, I've talked, I've mentioned this case a few times. Well, there was a few cases,

36:07but that I've mentioned a few times. But one of them, this was the one guy that, this was a German, from German guy from Germany, Germany on, I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was an email or whatever. He's in some kind of a, you know, something where you can, they're texting children or something or messaging them. He thinks he's messaging a, sexually curious 14 year old boy, gay boy. And it's really a 45 year old pissed off FBI agent. Um, absolutely. Get on an airplane, flies to the United States. Wow, wow. Lands get arrested. Wow. If they've got, but they couldn't touch him there, they actually convince him to come to the US. So they grab him, he gets around, he ends up getting 25 years, because in his mind, he's going to be able to get transferred

37:09back to Germany, right? Like a, uh, treaty transferred. Right. Yeah. Nobody in Germany was helping him. Right. No interest in the, because if he had gone back to Germany, he would serve out whatever the sentence was there. And he basically would be released almost immediately, because the age of consent was lower or, or was something like that, lower or at the same level. And it was, it was almost not a crime there. Like it was a much less crime, right? And he would have been in a better situation. So, but yeah, he had been locked up for 10 years or something. Like in nobody, they weren't helping at all. Well, you know, this is a problem in terms of these detectives creating crimes and creating criminals rather than detecting them. They've kind of gotten lazy in terms of, I don't even want to detect crimes anymore. Let me just lead some people on. And we saw that in Orange County. They were running a situation where they'd, a mom,

38:10a mom would post that she wanted to have relations with the dude, right? And now you've got an attractive mom. You got a hundred guys swooping down. And she'd reel you in and reel you in. And then she'd be like, oh, well, I got a daughter too. And now, okay, you have half of the guys that drop out. Yeah. Half of them are like, I'm not interested in your daughter, but I am interested in you. And you're coming on pretty strong. And this is great for guys. And it's just entrapment. And one of our judges had the balls to start throwing those things out, but it's difficult to get those kind of charges thrown out. Oh, yeah. Everybody just bends over backwards to convict you. But in this case, they were really misled in terms of, hey, I have something perfectly legal. And then let's close this deal and then, by the way, and they wouldn't even tell you the age sometimes of the daughter. Right. So then you're like, well, I don't know how old this girl is. Right. But they were just, they were creating crime nonstop.

39:12And then they go on the news, oh, we, we busted some ring and all that. You didn't bust a ring. You created some stuff. Right. And then you made your own ring up. It was a joke. There's a joke at Colmar. They said 80% of the child photos on the internet were circulated by the FBI. Right. You know, I don't tell you it's right. And then they just start arresting people once they look at them. Well, and in the federal system, if you, because I had, there was a few guys there that were like, they were downloading. You could go in for like a hundred bucks. You could buy a bunch of movies, random movies. That were like real movies. Like you're getting die hard. You're getting, you know, before streaming, basically, you bought bottom and bulk, put them on your hard drives. Yeah. And so they end up having, they'll, they would throw some movies in there. So when they're negotiating the hundred dollars, they'd say, hey, we also have, you know, porn and this type of porn.

40:13And guys, we go, yeah, I'm not really interested in that, in that kind of porn. You know, but, you know, whatever, you know, whatever, like they're not thinking, or they're like, yeah, whatever. Listen, bro, like I, I just want, you know, you have these movies, we have these four movies. And we also have this other stuff. They're like, how much is it? But give them a hundred bucks. They download a whole thing a week later. Their door is getting kicked in. And they've got it on their computer. And that's it. You pay for it and download it. You're in possession of it. Possession is, I think, four, mandatory minimum of four years. There's guys walking around the jail who like, you see anything I didn't look at it. I didn't where I did look at it. I did click through and saw what it was and turned it off. Yeah. But they're deleted it. You saw it. Or they don't mean delete it. It's still on their computer because they had to be in possession. Right. So you downloaded it and they hit you with all these different charges, but that's where the psychosexual evals come in sometimes where you, you have them take a polygraph. I'm really, you know, they passed the polygraph. They passed the test and you can at least say that dude really had no intent. Right.

41:14But man, it's, it's vicious out there as far as that goes. You're doing more time than the people that are actually assaulting, oh no doubt like it is. They're doing more time. You would hear in the state like there's like they catch some guy who's, you know, you know, doing things to a 13 year old girl is a 45 year old girl, a 13 year old girl and he gets probation or gets two years and then gets probation. And then it's like, okay, this guy downloaded some photographs and he's got eight years, you know, it's easy. Oh, easy. Yeah. This is, or if they, of course, listen, there's also, there's some guys, I mean, I'm not, I'm not saying that any of it's okay, but there's also some guys in there that were, are, were just, I mean, they've been in, they've been in state prison twice, maybe three times. Now they're in federal prison. It's a real problem for some of it's a real problem. Yeah. Yeah. And there was some gal out of Polk County and not recently, but she, this is hell has no fury, right?

42:15She's upset at her husband. She downloads it onto his laptop and then calls the police. And that dude goes, he actually, I don't know if he went to prison, but somehow they got, they got deeper because he just kept saying, I'm innocent. I've never seen this stuff and they, they forensically discovered on the back end that she was downloading it while he was at work. So they undid his conviction and then they went back and they arrested her. So I was, I was thinking that was going to be one of those where she got away scot free. They let him go, but nothing happened to her. I guarantee there are several of those. Yeah. Absolutely. But that's an easy setup. It's easy. It's so easy. They just, they presume, and I've had a couple of them where like the dad, is a red, is on the registry, so that's the safe way of saying it.

43:15And my client ended up being the 18 or 19 year old boy. So the dad was in the cop car for the pictures and my client comes out to the cops. As a 19 year old boy and says, I did this. Not my dad. Now they really had no way of knowing because it's just like a community computer or a lot, an iPad or whatever that was in the house. And so in the restrictions while they're on probation, I remember that client violated his probation by the search your phone when you go into probation, right? And you're not allowed to look at adult content if you're on that sort of probation. Yeah. Your band, which is, you know, reasonable. He had adult content on there. And we go to court, our defense legit defense is, I'm, I'm 19 years old. And this is my 18 year old girlfriend, like we're just recording what we do.

44:16And we did win that violation because he was just recording what he was doing with his girlfriend. But it was adult content. And I think we got away with one because now with the environment now on that, I think he'd be in prison. Yeah. What he's doing, right? Yes. Can't have it. Can't look at it. Yeah. Nothing. No, no record. Listen, I'm so freaked out by the whole situation. It's just in general. Like I could only imagine, you know, even I'm so freaked out like a, a Jess. My wife's daughter has a bunch of, when this was years ago, young friends. One of her friends came by, had a new car. And they, they kind of, you know, they're enamored by me, right? Like, oh, my gosh, he's got like a YouTube or they all think I'm cool. Right. And he comes by and the daughter's not there. Most she's not there. Oh, it's coming. I showed her my car. Oh, okay. I said, all right.

45:16He's like, yeah. So what's going on? And I was like, nothing. I'm staying at the door. Right. But he's a young kid. He's like 16, let's say. Right. And I'm like, nothing. But she's not here. He's like, okay. Well, you know, so what are you, what are you, what are you, you're just trying to talk to me? I was like, yeah, man, listen, I'm busy. I can't, you know, but I could tell he wanted to have a conversation or maybe even, yeah, you want to come in? Whatever it's like, it doesn't, I don't care. Right. I don't care. You know, there's no, in my mind, I'm, you know, so I guess just concerned, how many times I've seen things go, and I'm not saying that they all go wrong. Like, you know, like I said, 99% of everybody that's, I've met is, they should have gotten something. But in general, it's like, I can only imagine where you, these guys get picked up and they'll hang out with like a, they're, oh, this is my daughter's 15 year old, and she's just here waiting for it. No, you're not waiting for, you're not waiting for her to come home. Well, I just want to, I just come in and watch TV. No. Yeah. That's a good move on your part. Yeah.

46:16I'm very good. You know, when you said the, the wife put the, the, the, the CP on the guy, you know, it makes me think of. Do you remember Sam Kenneson? Yes. Of course. He's to have a joke. He used to have a joke where he said, um, I think you can't say most of the, his jokes. No, no, no, this is, this is like, you could clean it up, but, well, you know, what, no, this is what he did was it was, um, he said, I had, man, he's like, listen, I was dating this girl and I, I, I was, he's, he's, I'm, I'm, I'm drinking all the time. I'm worrying. I'm, I'm out of these, I have created the most advanced AI soldier. The weight is over. Tronaries now streaming on Disney+. We are looking for something, something you've discovered. And some of us will stop at nothing to get it. Ready? The countdown is complete. There's no going back. Dr. Rektiv is clear. Hang on.

47:17Tronaries now streaming on Disney+. RedditBG13. At these, uh, comedy clubs, I'm getting drunk. I'm, it's a, I'm, the girls are coming up to me after the show. Right. I'm hooking up with them. It's horrible. I was a horrible human being and, and I, it's a one day I come home and my girlfriend's there and she finds out about just a ton of them. She's found out. Somebody told her. And she's, and I'm like, I'm sorry. I got no, I got no excuse on it. It's, you're right. I'm a horrible human being. What I did was absolutely wrong. I am so sorry. I understand. It's over. I'm going to leave. He said, and I go to leave and she says, no, no, don't, don't. And she says, she, she comes up to me. She hugs me. She said, don't leave. Don't leave. And she, and I, he's an I hug her and I think, oh my God, this woman, this woman's going to forgive me. Right. She's going to forgive me. I know where your goal is. Oh my gosh. He is. But what I didn't hear was when she said, don't go, don't go.

48:17But through the sniffles, I must have missed where she said, I haven't got you back yet. Yeah. Exactly. He said, and a week later, he said, she's packing my bags. And I go to the airport and I put my bag on the conveyor belt and it's going through and I'm standing there. And all of us and I hear, oh, hey, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. I think what's going on? I'm looking around and somebody goes, gun, gun, weapon, he's got a weapon. He's got a weapon. Holy shit. So I was trying to get a weapon on the plane. That's crazy. I see the cops. They're all running out of different doors coming running. I'm like, oh, wow. I'm about to see some shit. Yeah. He said, next thing I know, they run up to me and they're pulling their weapons. They're on the ground on the ground. I'm like, what? What? Is there a point to me? And I put my hands up and they slam me on the ground and I think that bitch, he's like they pull up a huge, like a, a 44 magnum, fully loaded in my, or in my luggage.

49:20Right. And he's, he was just, it, listen, he didn't realize at the time. But I can, and it's a, I can't tell you how many times I've been put my, my bag on the right. I'm thinking, I love Jess boy. Yeah. Please, baby. Yeah. I haven't done anything. Yeah. Yeah. We did have a little bit of an argument yesterday. Right. It doesn't amount to prison time. Yeah. I don't think she would, she would never, she would. Yeah. Yeah. She packs my bags. Yeah. Not big of the bag when they're, and one of you hear the thing, did anyone pack, give you, give you anything? Does anyone pack your bags? We're not really losing anything. We're not really losing anything. And I'm like, yeah. Well, yeah. So I'm going to pack my bags. Yeah. I agree. I was a PD. I had this, well, it was in my division. So I was helping, but it wasn't really my case. But I was fascinated by this couple that thought they had hit the lottery because they, they

50:21were told like, hey, look, there's a couple cars in Chicago, right? And they're nice Mercedes. Why don't you take them, drive them down to Orlando and we'll give you 40 or 50 grand each cash when you come down to Orlando. And we're going to report a missing up there. We're going to collect the insurance from the lot. And then, and so there's this couple that doesn't have any money. And they're like sell moon Louise on this thing. They're so excited. They get to Orlando. And then they're like Orlando, the people in Orlando, like, well, we can't do the 50 grand each. But what if we give you like 50 and, and then we'll give you some cash to and we'll take the cars. And the woman's super excited because she loves, she's like, oh, yes, I'll take, I'll take all this. And then the guys like, yeah, but what are we going to do with this? And with this whole thing's going down and then they throw in some more baggies, like they don't even know what these baggies were, but it was age, but they didn't even know.

51:21Now, mind you, they're just getting set up the whole time. And these people, you know, like I said, the creation of crime, right, where they, they were, there's no more joy than this Thelma and Louise moment from Chicago to Orlando. And then they, of course, they have to turn on each other as they, as the case goes on. And they, this setup was extraordinary in the sense that they knew they had one girl that was going to turn on the guy and was going to use drugs. So this was all set up by the, by the, but from the get go from the police. Yeah, from the get go was all set up. And they even, you know, the age was, all of this was like 25 year man, man amounts of drugs. And these people were not drug dealers. They were not anything. They just wanted money. They wanted to go on a joy ride on some expensive cars that they couldn't afford. And then get then cash in when they got here.

52:24And instead, they're like all doing 25 something years. They were willing to sign up for the grand theft auto, but not they did. And that's an easy, grand theft auto is not that big of a deal, right? Compared to 25 year man man's. But I was thinking of something you said before, where like they're, with the movies where they're throwing in movies that don't have anything to do with what you bought. Right. And now you're going to prison. They were throwing in age and maybe one other product that they couldn't even identify. I couldn't identify that baggy like in heaven, you know, in, in discovery. But they got, they got extra years for the stuff that was thrown in just to try to sweeten the deal. But the cops were laughing the whole time. They knew that they just, they had a buffet of drugs will just keep throwing and keep adding up the prison time for two people that just wanted to steal cars. What do you remember the DEA reversed things? So I mean, there were a lot of them. Yeah.

53:2410 years ago, 10 or 15 years ago, the DEA was, we're setting people up and they, it was, it was real simple. They were just going to kind of drug dealers known robbers and they're going to them. They're saying, look, we, they would have a confidential informant go, look, I know where there's, you know, there's a bunch of blow, right? Like tons of it and, and cash at this stash house. There's a guy in there. He got a 38 or maybe he doesn't, maybe there's a guy in there. He didn't even have a gun, bro. Right. You know, okay, all you guys got to do is go rob the place. And this is happening over and over again. These guys are pulling up, getting out of the car and they're, the cops are usually grabbing them in the yard before and sometimes they would kick the door and to catch a predator almost. Right. They're just going to make it go down right in the yard. So sometimes they would kick in the door, but it's loaded with police officers, right? So and the, it went and so first they, they used a few times and it's successful.

54:26They, they get some guys, grab some guys, they kick in the door, they grab them. The guys are, they're, they're, they're pretty well wrapped up, right? And so it went from one year, it was like, they were like 400 of these. And then. Oh my God. Oh no. Wow. Then the next year it was, it was like 750. Then the next year, this is, this is throughout the whole United States. Right. Next year, it's like 1100. Then it's, I think it gets up to like 27 or 2700 or 3200, whatever. Wow. It's just happening every day. They're doing it because it's so easy to catch these guys. And, and I've mentioned this kid a bunch of times. It's funny because my buddy, Zach is actually remembers the guy's name, talked to him all the time. I just, I remember he was a nice kid. I don't, I don't know that I ever really had much of a conversation with him, right? He was a black kid in a wheelchair. I don't really know. He's like 18 years old, 17 or 18 years old sitting on the couch. His brother comes in one day and says, Hey, I need you a little bro.

55:29That's how they talk. Uh, I need you a little bro. I need you to drive a car for me and he goes, well, what, okay, what's going on? So it's him and his buddy. They're like, we talked to a guy. We know where there's a stash house, 100,000, I'm going to give you 10 grand. All you got to do is drive up. Let us get out. Let's go in the house. We're going to get the car and then just drive, right? And he's like, um, okay, he doesn't have a job. He's got no money. He's like, he's never asked me to do anything ever. Seems like I'm not really doing anything. He's like, you're not even doing anything. He's like, oh, cool. Like I was just dropping you off. He doesn't realize you just robbed the house. You know, it's like the guy who drops you off at the bank to your buddies. He's off at the bank to rob the bank. Okay. No, you just robbed the bank. Well, I never got out of the car. It doesn't matter. No. So he drives in there as they're pulling up, the brothers get out of the vehicle and they start running towards the house with their weapons.

56:31They don't even get all the way into the house. I think maybe they kicked the door or something like that. And the vehicle start pulling up, guys jump out of, you know, the bushes, whatever, with their guns screaming and hollering. The brothers start firing. These guys fire back. He sees his brother getting shot multiple times. They're all shooting back at each other. He punches it and drives off the police vehicles or whatever, the federal vehicles slam into his vehicle. He jumps out of the vehicle because he thinks, even though they did notify who they were, he's thinking they're, it's like a rival gang. He doesn't know what he's so scared. And I understand. It's a fog of war. And I understand that because when I got arrested, these got, they pulled up in the SUVs, locked up, everything, jumped out with their guns and were all the way to me with their weapons. And before I even, I actually, for a few seconds thought, I'm about to get robbed.

57:31Yeah. I'm getting robbed. I was in a shitty neighborhood. You could focus on the gun too. Right. You're right. Not really looking at everything. Right. It wasn't until I realized that there was a, there were white letters that said, you're not reading stuff. The gun is like super focused. So it wasn't until he got right up to me and kind of with the gun and we're like, get on the ground. God, I couldn't even hear what they were saying. Like they were telling me, get on the ground, get on the ground. And I'm like, it wasn't until the guy he ran up to me, they, they know I'm not, you know, put his hand on my shoulder. He was, bro, get on the ground. I was like, oh, shoot. And I got on the ground. That's kind of when I realized, oh, secret service. Yeah. So he, he jumps out of the car and runs as he's running, they fire at him. They blow his leg off the, at the knee, clean off. Oh my gosh. So he ended up with, and I, I know Zach has told my buddy, Zach knows the exact, exactly what he got. I, I think I've always said 20 years or, and I, Zach said 30 or I've said 30 and it's that right. It was like he got like, like 30 years because they charged him with the brother's murder, right? Because you were involved and there was someone. Yes. So both, so both those guys I think got killed, the brother and the friend because they

58:34did shoot back. Yeah. He was running, lost his leg, he was in a wheelchair. They were still fitting his, his prosthetic, so he had to go up being a wheelchair. And yeah, he ended up getting like 20 or 30 years, never got out of the car other than a run, didn't have. So what ended up happening with those, so they don't do the reverse things anymore, the DEA for some reason. And the reason was there was finally one case where there was a guy who was probably, probably close to being mentally retarded, right? He's got like an 80, 85 IQ. They come to him, see I comes to him and couple guys, same thing, type of scenario, friend or brother, they come to him and they say, listen, we know where there's a stash house, we want to rob the stash house. So this is, this is basically the case I'm giving you right now is the one where, where it was such a setup, they said, okay, we're going to stop doing this. Like you can't do, you can't, we can't do this anymore. They almost have a conscious, they just do it almost, right? Yeah, almost.

59:34Well, I mean, it's obvious because it was in the news, it was a huge case, right? And what happened was this kid, this, this slow kid who's never been in trouble before, who sits home and plays video games all day, his brother or a friend of somebody, they end up convincing him to go with them and they tell him, listen, we're going to rob the house. We need you to get like a pair, get a gun, get a pair of handcuffs and get a badge because we're not, we have to be able to show them we're, we're cops to get them to let us in the, you know, so that way we'll run in screaming because they do this, you know, when they kick in the door, they'll, a lot of these guys will scream, you know, you know, Tampa Police Department, Tampa PD, you know, please get on the ground, so that they don't get shot. So the guys are compliant right away. So that they say, get a badge, he says, okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, so he's going to do it, right? He's going to do it because they're going to get, we're going to get a million dollars or some ridiculous 100,000, you're going to get 10 or 20,000 or 100,000. And he's like, okay, they've all we've done this all the time. We got it.

1:00:34It's all wrapped up. So when they show up a week later, he does have a weapon. He went to his grandfather's house and found his grandfather's grandfather who's deceased, found his, got his new, he had a gun, like an old, like whatever, it's an old service revolver, something like that, non-functional, doesn't have a pen, does not work, knows it doesn't work, tells them it doesn't work, they know it doesn't work. He's got the gun, they're like, did you get a badge? No, I couldn't find a badge, like I don't, I don't have a car, so I wasn't able to, I luckily, I'm two blocks from my grandfather's house, I was able to get, can't get a badge or the handcuffs couldn't get it, I, you know, they were like, well, we told you where to go, I know, but I don't have a car, it's too far for me to walk, they said, well, don't worry, we got it for you. They give it to him, they give him, they give him everything, wow, go to the house, everybody jumps out. They don't even get in the house, they grab them in the yard. You've got a kid that's, he's almost got an 80 IQ, so you have to have like an 80-85

1:01:40IQ. He can't read, he'd never graduated high school, he's in the SLD classes in high school, he plays video games all day, he's never been in trouble, you, he did get a gun, a non-functioning, yeah, basically a fake gun, doesn't work. You gave him the badge, so do you know why they gave him the badge, because it's an enhancement, because if you, if you pretend to be law enforcement, you get more time. So he's looking at 20 years, you're looking at 20 years, and so it's a complete setup. So what ends up happening is that case ends up in the newspaper and they show the statistics of how they were doing a few hundred to thousands within like five or six years, and it's so bad, and it's so easy to attract these poor kids who are living in the projects, who have no hope of getting out of it, not that they have no hope, but it's difficult. And they're just setting them up in the locker throwing away, like they, he can't win in front of a jury, they won't even really let him say, oh, entrapment, like it's not really

1:02:44a great defense, right? Right. Right. Right. So you're just going to be a monster who's, what did he get, did he get anything? I want to say that they dropped the truck, that's the one that where they dropped, they successfully argued, and they said, okay, we're not going to do this anymore, because they ended up changing their, it was so egregious, right? That they changed their policy, like you went out of your way to find this kid who's sitting on the couch, because, because one of his buddies knew he's slow, right? I could convince him to do anything, I'm like his only friend, he's still in drugs, he gets busted, he needs to lure some people into this thing, I can get this kid who's mentally handicapped practically, he'll do anything. Wow. He's never been in trouble, he's never broken the law, but I know I can convince him. In Florida, that would be grounds, entrapment is, is part of entrapment is egregious conduct. It can be other things, but egregious law enforcement conduct will get you there. But, you know, thinking back, remember when weed was all the way illegal, there was no

1:03:47medical marijuana, and those, might have well been age. Yeah, and those dealers were getting hit all the time. And because they were soft targets, like, I mean, my weed dealing clients, I had several of them, and they got hit just like that, except it wasn't a setup. And the thing was, one of them, man, I'll tell you what, they were like rich college kids, but they just decide, you know, and they're rent in this house and they have a safe, and yeah, and they're selling to all their friends, right? Because in this college, like, nobody's going to go to the bad part of town to get their, you know, that way, so this was an easy target. And they get the home invasion, and they get everything ripped off, and they had some good money, and they had a good amount of, and they call the cops though. They call the cops and say we got a home invasion, but they don't tell them what they do for living. They don't tell them everything that they took, but the cops, you know how they are.

1:04:50So they're not stupid. They're not stupid. So you know those rooms that you see on the documentaries where they're, okay, they're not in that room. People think that you're being recorded in that room. Of course you are. They're in the lobby, right? They're in the lobby waiting, but the cops aren't stupid. They let these two sit in the lobby for 45 minutes, and they start telling each other, well, God, how much did they, well, they took like 14 grand, they took three pounds of this and whatever the coast, whatever the names of the, they're rattling off the inventory in the cash that got stolen, and the cops are just sitting here recording this. Now people are coming and going into the station, you know, they don't think they're being recorded yet, and they're trying to get their story straight. They're like, what, what, what are we going to say? We got to cover all this up, and I was just like, you guys are such soft targets. I mean, they're lucky, they're alive, really. And then they're talking about it, you know, gosh, and the same way with the backup police cars too, still to this day, I don't understand why people just start jibber jabbering.

1:05:56Like the cop will be friendly, hey, man, you know, if you want to call your wife, you know, I'll let you call your wife or whatever. And then they'll walk away, but they're recording the inside the car, like, yeah, they found it. Oh, they're going to find it. Yeah. But they're going through the trunk. I'm like, oh, my God. This is all on video. Like, stop. So. I watch entirely too much of the cop videos, you know, of them with the, this and the body cameras are so much entertainment. Oh, yeah. They knock on the window and they say, you're licensed registration, you know, and the person cracks the window and they go, why are you pulling me over? Right. Because you rolled through the stop sign or whatever, you know, I have it on dash cams, you know, uh, well, I'm, I'm, I love the sovereign citizens. Oh, my gosh. I'm not driving. I'm traveling. Hey, hey, we call again that we got a problem here, like, you know, we got a 1272.

1:06:56No, give me somebody here. There are no, this, I'm, I'm going to be breaking this window in about two minutes and yanking you out of here because you're already a prop is like, what are you doing? Yeah. You're going to get a lot, you're going to get a ticket. It's no big deal. It's, yeah, you just turned this, you turned a traffic violation into, into, um, a felony, like some of these people, and then they put them in the back, or maybe something completely different. They argue and argue and then they put them in the back. Like, I love the, the girls that get caught shoplifting and they stick them in the back of the police car and then they're, you know, don't, don't, and they put you together. Oh, yeah. If they put you together, like, they're not, they don't want you, they're not hoping it's a sign. You guys keep each other company. Yeah. It's a sign. And they're waiting too. They've got, they're waiting, waiting for the recording to, you know, prosper. We'll see other, uh, oh, uh, well, obviously, the other body camera ones are great where they're, they go in, they get somebody passing a bad check and the cop, you know, they've, they've got their sitting, they're sitting in the manager's office at the bank and two

1:07:59police officers walk up and they're like, hey, what's going on? Uh, we're going to go ahead and, uh, what's going on here? You know, come over here for a second. It's like, oh, man, and then they gave him fake IDs. They do all the things and it's like you were trying to pass a bad check. You open an account two weeks ago, you guys have dumped $20,000 in checks that are no good. You've been pulling out the cash. Right. This is not your name. Right. You know, it's, and then they just lie and they try and try and try and try and get out of it. Yeah. But that's like a safer crime than like people robbing the, the pizza delivery dude or what have you? Like, how much do you think you're going to get, you know, from a convenience store even? They got most of that locked up even the guys at rob banks don't go. Like the average bank robbery, it's $3,500. Yeah. It does. It's way too much risk. Yeah. Passing a bad check is not a bad deal compared to these other things. You know, it's funny. I would talk to the guys in prison, like the drug dealers in prison and they used to

1:09:01always were, they always thought like you've got, I had, I had a lot of balls for going into a bank with a driver's license and fake documents and sitting there for like how long you in there? I'm like, uh, be 30 minutes. It could be an hour or two to men's, you know, and feel like it's the money or till whatever happens, right? Like maybe I'm applying for a mortgage. They'll have what they, and they'd be like, how bro, and you just sit there like they were like, I'm like, you, you're here for, for, you're 1200 pounds of marijuana. You went to a deal with a gun where the other, you didn't, like that, you showed up with everybody's got guns and you're, you're, you're, you're dealing in keys of, of blow or like, that's, that's insane. Like I would never do that in there because they're saying I would never go into a bank and do what you did. That's it. That's it. No joke compared to what you're doing. Yeah. It's just, it's what you're familiar with. Right. You know, like they were perfectly comfortable knowing everybody had a pistol on them and they're there to drop off six keys and pick up a hundred and eighty in cash.

1:10:04And it's like, that's insane. Right. You know, kill each other for that. It seems like if your goal is just to get money, there are safer ways to get money than then, you know, using guns and using drugs. It was definitely better crimes, but like I said, they're not used to it. Now, I mean, now with the way things are going with computers and AI and the agency that these machines have, like, how is this going to end up? Who's going to be responsible when my little agent is off taking stuff from a bank somewhere? And I didn't ask it to, but I just asked it maybe to get some money or make some money, and then all of a sudden it's going to be rampant that people don't even have to do this anymore. Or that the kids are going to program these things. I don't know. Well, or it's also that technology is like that, the flock, what is it? Flock? Is that what's called the flock? Flock cameras, you know,

1:11:08yeah. It's insane. I mean, they're they're able to say this place was robbed. What vehicles were in this area? Right. Okay, here's six of them. Where did they go? What are the tags? Who on the vehicles? Where are they? Oh, okay, the guy went here. We can follow him all the way back to his house. Like, it's like, this is insane. Like, you'd be foolish. Or and then some of the other things with the AI is now a lot of the older crimes or scams that people will catch onto. Or for instance, this happened to my mom one time. I think I've mentioned this before. Is my mother got a message on Facebook? And it was from a friend to hers, and the woman said, now keep in mind on my mom's Facebook, she had lots of vacations that she and my father had been on. They happened to have gone to Budapest a few times. This woman said, my mom's name is Margaret. Margaret, I need your help. I'm in Budapest. We lost our our like they lost like their suitcase or

1:12:15their wallets or whatever our passports, everything. We have no money. Can you can you wire transfer us or whatever Western Union because this was probably 20 or 15 years ago. Can you send us money Western Union? Can you send us like, and it wasn't a lot of money. It was like 1500 bucks, right? Right. Which to them, that's like, if you're in Budapest, that's probably like getting 10 grand. So it's not that I don't even know this person was in Budapest. I'm assuming they were probably actually in a call in a call center in Nigeria. But for sure. My mom was actually thinking about sending the money. So I think they went they went back and forth a few times and my mom just it's just so happened that I want to say my sister had come by and my mom said that, you know, Maria so and so yes, here's what happened. Does that sound fishy to you? And the reason it sounded fishy to my mom was that they hadn't spoken in a few years and that she was very close with her

1:13:17daughter and her son-in-law. And like there were all these other people that's like, why did you reach out? Why would you reach out to me? Right. We're friends. We're Facebook friends. We don't talk a lot. Right. Like there's there's there's 10 other people in your circle that you would have reached out to before me. And that's the only reason that she did that only asked my mom before she actually went to probably go do it. Because 1500 dollars for my mom was probably not a big deal. Right. And so now you could do the same thing. Yes. But with video. With video. Yeah. You just clone that person's face and you call them and you FaceTime them and listen if I saw that I'm sending the money. Right. I'm not even going to question it's so good. Right. I wouldn't even who would question that. Of course, you know, John needs my I'm you know, oh yeah. And if they could eat, you know, in a you might question if like I haven't talked to this guy in two years. But if it was someone closer that oh yeah, we had had dinner, you know, what of two months ago.

1:14:21And maybe it was hey, they're in Georgia and they need to get back. And it's like, yeah, man, I'll send you. Of course, sure. No, like, hey, what happened? You know, like if the scenario was slightly different, I could see me sending 1500 bucks to somebody. And they counted out these robots could do it all night or agents all night millions of people. Yes. And these folks wake up with money in their bank account. Yeah. Yeah. Oversey was it is it was somewhere in Romania. There was a little town in Romania. They called it like scam city or something. And it was they had the most per square mile. They had the most Western Union stores in the world. And that they there were just it was just there was because I was it was an article in Wired magazine. It was from the police like they had like four police or three police that were busting the scammers. Right. And they had they're like, we got no budget. We have no budget with nobody cares about this. Right. Because they're stealing from Americans. Right. You know, they were like, so they don't care.

1:15:23We were in this was once again, this article was 15 20 years ago. Right. Uh, probably 15 years ago. And we just talked about how they were extremely poor as a poor country. And, you know, and they said, even when we would grab these guys, the guys would be like, what why are you guys even arresting us? Like I'm not stealing from Romanians. We're stealing from we're stealing from American rich Americans. Right. They don't even they're not even missing the money. Right. We never see like 90 day fiancee. You ever see that show? I'm never I know it. I've seen them. These guys lonely dudes, lonely American dudes are going overseas to find women and vice versa. Right. And, uh, a lot some of these guys, they're sending money constantly. And they never even see they're they like don't even FaceTime this girl. Yeah. And I'm the whole time I'm yelling at the TV like, can you FaceTime you know where this is going? Yeah. No, I can't. I've send her my last dollar. She doesn't want to FaceTime. We just talk on the phone or we text. And it's like now you're going to you're going to do FaceTime to get money out of these lonely guys. Yeah. And it's going to

1:16:26work. I saw the one where the guy was, uh, I don't know if they're all like this or not, but the guy's basically is like rented a room and he's waiting for his Ukrainian girlfriend to arrive on the plane. And he's sitting there and he's waiting. He's like, I haven't talked to him like four days, but I know she's getting on the plane. I know she's got to be on the plane by now. I mean, she's lazy. And he's just, I haven't talked to him. He's got roses. He's just, you're just like, oh, yeah. Like bro, there's yeah, there's no six foot tall blonde hair blue eyed Ukrainian about to walk through customs. It's not happening. Uh, uh, I do have a question because it's funny. Uh, my buddy Pete Knight used to talk about this in prison all the time. Uh, you know, these guys would hire so much, right? This is, this is federal. But it's, it's, it's more the same in the state. And I'm wondering what it, how it works and, uh, for a public defender, you work for the public defender's office. Just when I started out 93. Okay. And now you work. I've been on my own

1:17:28for 25 years. Oh, okay. But then it's even worse for you. Um, only, only for this scenario is because, you know, like Pete, Pete, and there's a guy named Frank Amadeo and Pete. There's a bunch of guys that they did legal work, right? My buddy Pete was locked up for like 26 years. Right. 26 years and did legal work almost the entire time. And he's a super, super smart guy. I mean, just like brilliant. Uh, so he did a ton of legal work. And he was like, I, you know, I get these guys in here. You know, they come to me and they paid their, they paid their, their defense attorney, you know, $30,000. And he's like, for a federal case. And, and he's like, and they think, they, they think that their lawyer has adequately represented them. And he's like, and they're probably nice guys. He is, but then I, and I have to sit down and I have to explain to him, like, you gave the guy 30 grand. You had, you know, 500 hours of, of wire tapes, you know,

1:18:32wires, you've never listened to them. You know, and the guy's like, right, you know, my attorney did. He's like, no, no, like, let's think about this. What is your attorney charge an hour? You know, like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, 100 bucks an hour. He's like, okay, now listen to this. Think about this and do the math. And then he, you know, you add up the math. It's like, you know, you need hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to have listened to him. That's if he just played them and listen the whole time. He's got to stop. He's got to take excerpts. He's got to put together pieces of who you were, where you were in this transaction. The whole thing. He's like, you can't listen to, no, you can't, you don't have, he doesn't have the money to do. Even if he hired paralegals at $30 an hour, you didn't give him enough money to listen to 800 hours or 400 or even 150 hours of wires. So what I'm wondering is the public defender and we always joke that you're going to take my case, you know, it's a complicated case,

1:19:39right? Because they have different levels. Right. So complicated case. I think the federal defense attorney's got like $12,500 something like that. And then so if it was just a regular case, like the first thing they get is they get like $5,500 or $6,000 because you hear it about your plead amounts. No, no, this is a complicated one. You're on or they always try and get the complicate. Right. And then they go, okay, 12, five, okay. What if you like, and then if they went to trial, they got something else like really like a lot, like $22,000 or start billing per hour on the state level, you could bill per hour if you go to trial. But you seem like, like, yeah, there's not enough money, maybe 150 attorneys in this in their office, an inexhaustible budget. So one, I'm wondering, what is, what does the public defenders get paid? And two, how, how, how, how can you possibly, why is the system set up that they think that you, that it's, it's, I'm going to say, I want to say fair, but that's, you know, because the problem

1:20:44is is that, you know, like in the, in the constitution, right, like, you know, you have, you have the right to have an attorney. Right. Doesn't say you have a right to have an effective attorney. Right. Just in it. And people are like, no, no, no, no, right. Just an attorney. And, and the other problem is is that, you know, until I went through the system, you know, like an idiot never, never, never occurred to me. I just never thought about it either. Is that people think like, oh, no, I got an attorney. Okay. Well, who's your attorney? Oh, is this a guy got out of the, no, we're like a commodity now. Right. They're all the same. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is ridiculous. So I'm wondering, is it the same in the, in the public defender, where do they give you a set fee to represent someone? And then you're on a salary at the public defender's office. So you're just on a salary. It's, you know what I was asking in Jua is that if it's, if it's the federal public defender's office, you are on a salary. And actually, the salary, and this was like 20 years ago, was like 80 or 90,000. They get paid well a lot. They get paid well. They still get paid well. But I,

1:21:44that was federal. I didn't know what the state I agree with you that you do end up defending these cases where the government dumps all this stuff on you. And I had this recently, I resolved it last year as a racketeering with, have you ever heard of these 21 houses? There was a 21 house in Tampa. They were all over and they're like, they, they call it human trafficking, but it's not. Okay. Basically what it is is, is this a brothel? And you go in for $20. You have this woman for 15 minutes and then the dollars for your protection. What do you do with the other, but other 13 minutes? Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know these guys. And so they dumped on me. They dumped three years of camera footage on me outside the house. So they set up a camera on a pole. I have three years of pole cam footage. And I'm like, really, how am I going to go through

1:22:46three years of video footage? Right. I mean, this is, I'm just one guy. Now there's, this is a vast racketeering conspiracy, which really you could just legalize this stuff and then it wouldn't be a big deal. But these houses, this conspiracy, this racket had been going on for like a decade because they, they refused to let white people go into the house. First of all, they would only allow, you know, Mexicans basically to go into the house, which they kind of successfully without a lot of undercover. Yeah. Like really, they just, they just couldn't catch these guys. They spent years. And I couldn't go through all three years of that pole cam. But what surprised me about just as a side note, what surprised me about these houses is they were extremely busy. So these women would run through 100 guys in a week. And the deal at the house

1:23:49was only you had a rotation. You could never have a woman repeat. So they had a different woman every week. And that's what kept the guys coming back like the weekly special. They would get bored with the same girl, right? And this was a racket that had been going on forever. And eventually they, they were able to put a stop to it. And I mean, just boat loads of people went down on this. But I was surprised at how long they could, number one, I surprised at how long they could get away with this. They would always buy a house in a poor neighborhood, you know? And the people in the poor neighborhood, like, I'm not going to interfere. Whatever's going on there. They don't mind their own business. Yeah. Like nobody calls you literally have 15 strange dudes go into the back door all day every day. And nobody called it in. And they, they wanted on the news, they wanted to call it human trafficking. But I had all the discovery in these women were begging, begging to get in this house. They were, they were, they made a lot

1:24:51of money. They got tips, things of that sort. And the 15 minutes was well enforced. Like the guy would come bang on the door and say, I need another, however many dollars, otherwise get the hell out. They had like boutsers. Right. But they're not being held there against their will. No, they couldn't prove that. They had to kind of get rid of those allegations. But it made for nice sensational news that these women are stuck in this house. In the meantime, they were just, they were begging to come back. And, and also trusting the juries is, is a tough thing. And I know I can get into disputes with other defense attorneys about this. But I lack a lot of trust in random Floridians. I love Florida. But you're going to pick six to 12 randoms. And they're going to decide your fate. And I remember a good friend of mine had to go to trial on the case where, and I watched some of it because it was interesting to me. And he had supposedly pistol whipped

1:25:55his wife. And they were in a bitter divorce. And he's like, dude, I have never done this. I've never pissed, I never know this. I am totally innocent. Now mind you in Florida. It's mandatory prisons like aggravated battery with a firearm. Right. It's not that you shot the projectile, but it is that you hit the person with it. So he is racking up years and years of prison for this supposed domestic thing. He is totally innocent. He's like, I'm not doing prison. Then they did what? Well, how about probation? I'm not doing probation. How about one month of probation on a misdemeanor? He's like, I'm innocent. I'm not doing one month of probation on a misdemeanor. Goes to trial. He gets 45 years prison, 45 years. I think the dude is still in prison to this day. And he could have had a month of probation on a misdemeanor. Now, when you get into these, he said, she said, situations, you have to be real careful about, okay, you're innocent. I

1:26:58totally get that. But this is a lot of risk you're taking. And I, you know, I sighed on years for pistol living as white. They're clearly were no married men on that jury. Right. Right. Well, the state might have picked a good jury for sure. And sometimes, you know, you just have believability. And he said, she said, and Florida law is just very harsh on some things when it comes to firearms. Right. And that was a manipulation, I think, of the intent of that crime. So it is what it is. I just, I don't trust. If it were up to me, if that, I would be like, hey, dude, you know, please, I mean, really don't roll the dice with these randoms. Your life is, I don't, I'm happy that you're innocent. Yeah. And that's great. Yeah, you can tell everybody that while you're out, you know, or you can spend the next 45 years in prison telling everybody you're innocent. Like, which one do you want to do? Yeah, exactly. And

1:28:00I, I know you're a misdemeanor. They offered a misdemeanor one month probation. I'll take a mist. I'll take the mist. But what, what, what, what are we talking about here? You know, I was, I was hovering around that case. And I, I think because he was an ennacity divorce, he was not wanting to give her the edge like this was the edge that she needed in the nasty divorce was this crime. But still it is, it is a lot of risk. You know, people, you can believe that they'll just believe you sometimes. And there's not a lot of evidence. And there's a, there was a wacky case in Osceola, which I, I handle Osceola too. And, um, and your editor may have to edit this out, but I'm just going to tell you how wacky the case was. So you know, at the hospitals, you come in pregnant and you deliver, they do this DNA test. And the DNA tests came back that they automatically do a DNA test now. When they don't know who the father was sometimes they,

1:29:00so it came back incest, right? I don't know if you could say that, but it came back that, that, this, there were no 18 year old had relations with somebody related now. The backstory was that dad, yeah, exactly. This is what you, you like look at the news, you're, oh my god, it's Florida. Oh my god, it's always Florida. And this dad was out of her life. He was in prison her whole life. Dad gets out of prison when she's like a teenager and she moves in with cool dad. And apparently, this relation happens in a kid pops out now. The case gets dismissed because she goes to court. And she says, my dad is a drug addict. And while he was asleep, I had relations with him and out pops this kid, right? Now the judge did exactly what you're saying. The judge is like, I don't believe this. But the, all the evidence we have, right, is that this was not consensual.

1:30:04And, and dad said that too. Dad was like, I never knew that I, you know, I drink a lot and I do drugs a lot. And I'm passed out a lot. I never knew I didn't have relations with my daughter. And they dismissed the case. It goes up on appeal. And this was a crazy decision to me. The appellate court overturned it and said, we don't believe the victim. We don't believe the victim. And we are, you can continue pressing charges against this guy, which is like very strange. It's a very strange situation. I mean, if anybody has the right to press charges, it's the victim. The victim's not saying she wants to press charges. And the victim is telling a story. And again, maybe it wasn't true. How do you win that at trial? Anyway, like, she's not going to cooperate. I mean, he took the, he took prison time when it came when he lost the appeal. He got his trial, you know, they dismissed the charges and then the state

1:31:04appealed. You know, this is another thing. State always appeals. They got all the appellate money. They got all the appellate lawyers. Every time something goes wrong for them, it gets appealed. My clients can't always afford to just appeal every little decision. But I think that, I think that dismissal should have stood. It was unbelievable. But this is Florida. Crazy stuff happens in Florida. You have to accept the crazy. This is what the woman's saying. And they literally said, we don't believe you. We're going to throw your dad in prison. Even though you both have the same story, there's no video. There's no evidence that this was consensual. So what are you going to do? Florida. I was thinking about that conversation with in Norway that I had with my cousin who's like, my looks like this is like, so I went to Norway for I'm Norwegian for a family reunion. And, you know, we're eating at this table. There's 200 people

1:32:07there. And, you know, there's a blonde, very attractive blonde that keeps looking at me. This is when I was young and attractive. And so we keep glancing at each other, glancing at each other. And this is a horrible thing. But we're glancing at it. And her mother even leans into her and says, stop flirting with your American cousin. We don't know. And we don't really know how we're related. Yeah. So we end up going later and, you know, she didn't speak great English, which is way better than my Norwegian. So we go and we talk and she's like, how are we? I was like, I have no idea she's let's find out. So we go up to the chart. Your, you know, Olga's, you know, great grandson. It's like, you know, you know, you know, they're origin names, which are ridiculous. And so we go all the way. And she's like, so that makes you my, like, she's like, fourth cousin like that.

1:33:09And I went and I said, that didn't make a shit. I said, I'm from Florida. I said, we marry our first cousins. Yeah, that's right. Just if we she's died laughing, we were just both right. But, uh, that's what that makes me think of, uh, God, what was it? It was, it was a wolf wall street, where the guy is married. He was married to like his first cousin or second cousin. Oh, yeah. Did you ever see that? Oh, it's in the wolf wall street. Like his wife is like his second cousin or something. It's, oh, it's insanity. But yeah, Florida's, uh, it's an interesting place. What you know, it's funny is that I always say this is that most people, if you're not from Florida, they think of Florida and they think of Miami Beach, you know, beautiful women palm trees, you know, that's what they think. But that's like five percent of Florida. Like 95 percent of Florida is pickup trucks, good federal flags, you know, red necks hunting. Like it's, it's kind of like, it's like Northern Georgia. You know what I'm saying? Like it's very little of it is beaches and,

1:34:10and I don't experience that so much because I'm in downtown Orlando. So the downtown Orlando is this own pocket of something different than that. I think I've seen a Confederate flag in downtown or whatever. Listen, there is a 60, no, is it a hundred foot? It's like a 100 foot by 80 foot Confederate flag that flies on 75 every day and it's on this 200 foot pole and you drive by and it's blowing in the wind. Yeah. And, you know, and we live in Wesley Chapel, which is actually a very nice little sub, kind of like a sub. I go to this place called Saddlebrook because I play a little tennis. Yes. Okay. That's in Wesley Chapel. Yeah. And a little tennis over there. They're building a ton of a little sub, not little, they're huge subdivision. But even then as they grow and grow, I mean, you know, we even now we drive to our house. We're driving by cow pastures. There's cows. There's, you know, you're driving and there's, you know, and

1:35:12still I'd say 50 percent of the vehicles are still pickup trucks and SUVs and, and then there's, you know, Okeechobee. Right. You know, there's, you know, there's all these little tiny towns in the middle of nowhere and there's just tons of, you know, it's pickup trucks and it's, it's got, and which, you know, I have a problem with, but it's very much kind of like, well, it's like living in Georgia or South Carolina or something, you know. Yeah. It's a south. It's the south. It's the south. Yeah. Yeah. You have like repeat clients. I do have repeat clients. That's for sure. And sometimes the, the repeat, you can screen them for repeating. So if they're sitting where you're sitting, what do you mean? Yeah. Like if, if they blame themselves for what happened, like I screwed up, I shouldn't have done this. They're not going to probably be a repeat client. But if they blame their stupid girlfriend for putting that gun in the car, if they blame, well, you know, she spent a lot of money and I was behind on the rent and I had to, if they're

1:36:15blaming everybody else, I'm like, well, you have an accepted responsibility. You're probably coming back. But you know, I had a, a car ring case several years ago and I thought it was pretty brilliant and it basically got broken up from, you know, hell has no fury like Sam Kineson, like what you're saying, because what they were doing was they were buying salvage cars and up north. There were certain states that would sell them a car to give them the title and they'd find a Range Rover that was total, you know, recently they drove it off the lot and it's totaled. So it's still a 2026 Range Rover. They get the VIN number and then they just go steal that, they just go steal that Range Rover and then they swap them out. They swap everything out and they had been doing this forever. Oh, it's a good one. It really is a good one. As long as you can find, you know, these

1:37:18states that will just give you title to the total of car with the VIN number and everything, well, they could just go do the rest. But there was a nasty breakup and the girlfriend knew what my client was up to and this is so many times like you wouldn't have gotten caught at but you after round and found out, right? You know, and that's how they got caught was just a breakup. It was she just said, I'm calling the cops. I'm gonna call the police and tell them what you're doing. And this happens a lot, you know, and I know Chris Rock has a whole video on like, don't drive with your upset girlfriend. You know, like, you know, you just pulled over for a speeding ticket and she's upset enough to just rattle off every bad thing you've ever done. And I remember another similar car case where after this case, a lot of the insurance companies started changing the way they did business because it was a similar scam where the where the my client would call the police

1:38:25from the parking lot. And there'd be it. They'd put a little, I mean, just to sell the deal. They put a little glass on the ground like their window got broken to the to the car. Right. And they'd be like, oh, my car got stolen. It's a ranger over whatever it is. And so this was a similar branch of fraud where they would buy the title salvage title to really nice car. And then they'd ensure it down here. They'd here's the title. They'd get it registered down here. And then they'd just claim it stolen. They never had the car. There's no car at all. There's no car. The cars in a dumb lot in New Jersey. And they they they just bank. They just kept banking. But the problem was with this, you have to find enough people because I can't have my car stolen three times. Right. I get one shot. And then you get one shot and you get one shot. And we all make a hundred grand because these are nice cars. But one detective just had a whim and decided to go up to New Jersey to this lot where it was last. And the car was still there

1:39:34in the junkyard. And he's like, yeah, he flew all. I mean, it would take their jobs seriously. Yeah, just like he flies up there. He's like, oh, my God, this is still here. I wonder how many more of these are still in the lot and sure enough. So what ended up happening with that little scam that was pretty successful for a little while is I think if you're a new client at state farm or progressive or whatever, they'll make you show them the car. But they weren't well, you didn't have to show them the car back then. That's how they could cash in on this. And they just, you know, they would just collect checks. I have a buddy Zach. Do you remember when I'm going to say it wrong? I'm going to say shonies. Yeah, shonies. Denny's shonies where they were getting sued because black patrons were saying that we're getting horrible service. We're sat let like we're being discriminated against. They don't want us here. And so there was a lawsuit going on. And it just

1:40:39so happened. And this was 20, 30 years ago. My buddy, Zach's brother, who actually just passed away about a month or two ago, his brother and another guy named Glenn. They were best friends. Glenn's a white guy. Zach's brother was a black guy. So Glenn happened to be working at like shonies, right? Or denies, whichever one it was, he was working there. And so he's working there. And I don't even know if it was the one that was being sued, but it's one of those breakfast-style restaurants. Right. So he's working there. And he says listen, and he'd been working there for like six months or a year. Right. And he says says to Zach's brother, which I forget his name, let's say, Ron, he goes, Ron, he goes, why don't you come in and get at my station and order food. And we're going to create a scenario. And so he comes in, oh my gosh, yes. Order food

1:41:41and says, hey, man, hey, can I get a refill on my Coke? And he's like, and so he's the waiter's like, yeah, bro, yeah, I got you. And he waits on somebody else, brings them their food, waits on somebody else. And then as he's leaving, hey, don't forget about my Coke. He's like, yeah, man, I got you. Leaves comes back, brings them their food. And so everybody can hear this happening. It comes back again. He says, hey, he said, man, I'm sorry, man, can I really, can I get a my Coke? I just want to, you know, I've asked you several times. And he's, and he leaves again, comes back without it. And then the guy goes, man, what's going on? Why can't I get my Coke? And he turns and he says, and he says, man, that's why I hate waiting on you fucking. Right. Inward, you know, and he's, and he goes, and he's like, what? And he said, man, you just, he's like, wait, they're friends, they're friends, though. So, like, it's a total set up. So he storms off. And the manager comes over. Now, this guy gets up, it's like, I want to talk to the manager.

1:42:43The manager comes over. So Ron's like, I want to talk to the manager, manager comes over. He said, this is what just happened. The other patrons are like, hey, man, I was sitting right here. Your waiter's totally out of line. This guy's been, it's been 20 minutes. He brought our food. So they start giving him phone numbers and stuff. So the manager, look, he's got his witnesses. Of course. Oh my gosh. And so he says, so he fires him. You're, he fires a, he, he fires, going, you're fired. Get out of here. Okay. He leaves. He says some more stuff rocks off. He gets the guy's phone number and everything, right? And he's like, man, and he says, look, I'm going to have somebody call you. I'm so sorry. I think he leaves. He said, man, I'm telling you, he said, it wasn't two days. It may have been that day. They get a phone call from a lawyer offering them like $80,000. Something ridiculous, like 50,000, whatever it was, it was immediate. It's, let's say it's 40,000, like it was immediate. They were so, it was so egregious. They were so concerned about it. Then, of course, they often, because they don't want them to get a lawyer,

1:43:43right? Right. And they also know what's going on. The environment. This is not something we want. And of course, they're not thinking Glenn, because Glenn's been working there for a year. Right. You know, to, you don't work somewhere for a year. And the lawsuit had just come up six months ago. They didn't make a lot more money with that. Yeah. So he gets, and like I said, this is 25, 30 years ago, right? This was back in the 90s when this was happening. I think I was in college. So that happens. They get paid. They're thrilled. Yeah. Of course, that, you know, they're really good with money. So two weeks later, they're like, you know, once they've bought the, bought a, a used Corvette and they've blown the money. Right. They decide, you know what we're going to do? We're going to get Glenn to go get another job at, at like a show news or whatever the competitor was. So he gets a job there. A month later, they do the same thing again and get more money. No, because this time, they, they were supposed to get more money. Right. And this time, I think they got a lawyer. And I believe that the lawyer got a phone call from,

1:44:45you know, Denny's lawyer. And they said, they had run them through the accord system, which is an insurance system. And they said, these two knuckleheads just, just, we're just going to check for $40,000 a month and a half ago. Right. You know, and they're like, they're like, they just made like 40 grand. He's like, they just did this is the exact same. We're lucky. We don't call. And so he calls them and he's like, hey, listen, now what are you doing? We're going to break down immediately. But it was like, that's, that was one of those things that's like, they were in a situation. They probably could have made a, and they had decided like they could have what, everybody I talked to was like, you could have got way more money. Yeah. But they got them right away. You know, the lawyers go and try to right away and try and get them before you get a lawyer before anything happens. Let's, let's settle this. Yeah. I had a case at Disney where Disney's rushed to get people, make sure they don't have a lawyer on their little bus accidents, right? They got all these trams, all these buses. They get into accidents, right? And

1:45:48my guy was on the inside trying, trying to cut the checks and convince them not to get a lawyer. But in fact, he had set up some chiropractic places and everything else. So when you got injured, he was like, well, you know, he needed some help at this place and this place. So he's cutting himself checks to all these companies. They were legit companies except they weren't legit. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually they're giving him a kick back, right? No, he's literally getting all the money. Oh, he's not, he's not sending it to it. I mean, they're legit corporations. They're just, there's no chiropractic there. But he's running out of like they ran out of Denny's and Shoney's. He's running out of people because what he would do is he would call you and go, hey, you were on that bus on that accident, right? Because there's 15 people. How do you, how does Disney know? And he's the gatekeeper. How do they know who's on that bus? And he just constantly is calling up friends. Hey, you want to make 50 grand? You want to make 80 grand? Well, you were on this bus, you know? And eventually, like somehow they found out it took a long time

1:46:54for them to find out. But they, but they got screwed in a way because of that rush. Hey, we want to pay this before a lawyer comes in. Well, now you've got this pain point of this guy that is running this. And he could be cut in checks. And he was, you know, I mean, it could have gone on for a long time. But, you know, people get greedy. Then they figure it out. Have you ever, have you ever had a, do you have your representative made for murder or anything like that? I, I don't any more. Okay. That was more of a public defender thing. But I never got like death penalty qualified. So we had at the PD's office, only one person that one or two people that would do a death case. Are they all death penalty cases? No, but a lot, I mean, sometimes they are. And you have to be, you have to be qualified to do that. Otherwise, they won't give you the case, right? Because if they just give you like a first degree murder case, they could almost boot you

1:47:55off. They could boot the attorney off just by saying, Oh, we decided we want the death penalty now. Well, now you need somebody qualified. So they always have somebody qualified, right? But, you know, in private practice, there's not a lot of murder going on that these people can't afford those cases. There, I mean, murder in Orlando is almost exclusively a public defender thing. I can't remember a private, I mean, you can get private attorney sometimes like cheap if they want the fame or whatever. And we've seen that. But usually it's, it's exclusively government lawyers. Yeah. What is the bulk of what you see? Or is it just people are just knuckleheads? Are they just like low level, you know, what's, what's the majority of the, of your clients that you represent? Is it mostly drugs or is it? I would say it's mostly drugs. And it is, you know, interesting things happen on drug cases. But and luckily for us, we have digital forensics now

1:49:01that can kind of, I had a guy that was drug trafficking in Brevard, right? Now the cops pulled him over because they recognized that he had a suspended license. Now, in fact, I think he was a black dude after midnight with dreads and they just pulled him over. Yeah. And he had driving well black. Yeah, exactly. And he had a ton of drugs in the trunk. And they said, well, we recognized him from a previous time when he didn't have a license, right? And he still doesn't have a license. That's why we pulled him over. Lucky for us, we have this thing that the cops do. It's called a David system driver assisted, whatever. So they can ID because the cop was like, oh, yeah, I did him through David and it said he had a suspended license. Well, we went to Tallahassee and his log in information that cops log in to the David system was like 20 minutes after the stop, right? He did not check to see if that dude's license was suspended. So I was so happy. I'm like, we are

1:50:07getting this thing thrown out. Congratulations. Your 25 year man man has gone away because this cop lied about why I was pulling you over. My client was very excited. He was so excited that he went out and drug trafficked again before I could get that dismissed. Yes. And that's time they actually legally pulled him over. So I mean, I can't save people from themselves. But the digital forensics sometimes bites the cops in the ass in terms of you said you ran this name. Tallahassee says you didn't run the name. Tallahassee says you didn't do this. We've got you, we've got the printouts. You know, we've got the data. And then, but nothing ever happens with those cops when they like nothing happened. Like it's not like they're like the district attorney says, hey, we're going to charge you for lying on a police report or for fabricate. No, no, they never there's no accountability, I think, on the government side. I don't even think there's accountability when people accuse folks of something else. You could just drop a grenade in somebody's life.

1:51:11Yeah. And then, oh, no, she lied. And other than that one case, I told you about, I mean, literally 33 years of doing this. And I don't see anybody getting punished for lying and putting people through hell. Yeah. US attorneys, the stuff that I've seen and the transcripts I've read and the things that they say, it's just, it's like, they're just allowed to just do or say absolutely anything they want. You know, even at my sentencing, which I'd pled guilty, but I mean, they, you know, my US attorney was saying stuff that was like you 100% know, that's not true. You know, like we, like months earlier, we had been, you know, I was debriefed and you mentioned this, you know, which was, I'd had a robbery. I, where a bunch of stuff got stolen. And I was trying to run up the, the, you know, my claim. Yeah. And so, you know, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. You have, yeah. But I mean, you have like what people don't realize is if you said, oh, you've got

1:52:14a, you, you have a, you know, $50,000 in personal items that you can claim. Yeah. But it's, there's caps on them. So it's like you get $3,000 for electronics. You get, you know, $5,000 for jewelry, jewelry, exactly. So I'm trying to say, hey, we had $4,800 in this. We had $2,200 in this. And I'm just right. We're writing them up to try and max out some of them. Sure. Not all of them. But, you know, so we're, and one of the things we, we put down was that we had a, an AR 15, which we didn't have. You know, and so that was, that was one thing. And the other thing I was charged with a gun, which the girl I was dating at the time did have like a 38 or something or a nine millimeter something. And it was in a gun case that I didn't even have the combination to. But it had been stolen. And the, the government found a receipt. They

1:53:17sent a receipt in her name. And I was charged with a felon in possession of a firearm. So when I, we, I get them to drop that when we explain, I didn't have the gun. Never had the gun. You can ask her, she'll tell you I've never touched the gun. She'll tell you I didn't ask. I told her not to buy the gun. And the second, and, and then I explained about the AR 15, you can also ask the girlfriend. That's what we did. I've never had an AR 15. I'm never held one. We get in front of the judge. And so they drop it all in front of the judge. And the judge is like, he's a violent offender. He was in charge. He was in, he had constructed a possession of, you know, this firearm, which she already knew. I didn't. Uh, he had a, uh, an AR 15, uh, and she said something ridiculous. He was a fully automatic, uh, a machine gun. It's not even that. Like it's like, I don't, it's not a fully automatic machine gun. And it's just an AR 15. It's like a, it's a rifle, you know, and just completely, and, and I'm sitting there like, like she knows all this isn't true. And you're just, and I granted, I already applied guilty, but it's just inflammatory. You're just trying to get the judge to just think I'm this horrific person. And, and so I mean,

1:54:22you see the defense attorneys doing these, I'm sorry, the, um, the government saying these ridiculous things and law enforcement gets on this, on the stand and they say things and then they even get blatantly caught. And just nothing happens. I mean, is that, I mean, how frustrating is that? And you, and you know, we know in advance what they know a lot of times. Right. And so they're just up there lying, you know, they're up there lying. I had a, I had a motion to dismiss recently on just a domestic situatory situation. And I know that the victim, the alleged victim, purportive victim had called the state attorney and said, I'm not, I'm out of town. I can't make it to the motion. Motion set for 830. In an, in an honest prosecutor who had been like judge, I know this person is in comment. We'll call the hallways. So they call the hallways for their witness at 830. He's not there. Oh, let's give him, let's give him a few minutes. We had to wait

1:55:28till 1030 to finally acknowledge that this person wasn't coming. That prosecutor knew the whole time that person was coming. That prosecutor was told that person was not coming, but he sat there and made me wait. It's those little things like they know stuff. And yet they'll just dig and, you know, jerky around, jerk my clients around. It's, it's, it's difficult. They have all the power, all the guns, all the money. They really do. People don't realize that. And that's why that one guy I was telling you about, you, you're innocent. This is a big debate with folks. You're innocent, but you really want to go to trial and risk what these people are going to lie about. Right. Okay. I'm here for you. I'll do it. We win some of them, but man, if my life were on the line, I'd take the misdemeanor and the probation. Oh, yeah. Do you imagine the position on that? I always say, listen, if, if the DEA came a gravity right now and brought me downtown and said, we've got you

1:56:34on a, you know, five kilo conspiracy of, you know, powder. And I've never even seen it. I've never seen I've never even seen, you know, uh, uh, ever. You wouldn't know what he would know what it was. I wouldn't know. And I've never seen, and they said, yeah, we've got you and you're, you're, you're done. I, I would say, well, can I get a deal? Like, I know, I can't go to trial. We're so cynical. Yeah. I already know. So cynical. I know I'm done. Yeah. Okay. What can I, can you, can I do five years? I mean, yeah, we both know I don't know about this. And I'm not going to argue that because I know you'll get me, but what can I get? What's the deal I get? Because you know, I know, I know I'm just done. If you go to trial, then I already know they got four guys are going to say I was there at the deal. You know, that's, I'm done. It's over. I'm going to get 20 years. Can I get five? You know, what can we do here? Yeah. And I know I had to add a client years ago. And he, he was accused of abusing somebody underage. And he didn't do it. But he was like, you know what? I'll take a couple of years because otherwise the minimum man is like some

1:57:34ridiculous, you know, decades in prison. And so when you get out, they want to give you counseling, right? Because, you know, you have this problem. You did this thing. You need counseling. I get it. You do need counseling, except he didn't do it. So they made the pretend. What's that? Now he has to pretend. No, no, they have an innocence polygraph. They make you take a polygraph for your innocence, right? And he passed these innocence polygraphs. So if you pass the innocence polygraph, and I think there's a technical term for it, and I just don't know what it is, he didn't have to do the counseling. He passed that stuff with flying colors, but he took prison time. You know, he took a couple of years, I think it might have been five, rather than do a ridiculous amount of time. And, you know, they're not treated well in prison, but five beats 30. Yeah. And you know, some of these people are very convincing in what they say, right? But they're lying. And I think on the jury, you want to, you want to believe it, believe people? You want to believe,

1:58:37first of all, you want to believe, I always have this guy, I know named Red Bull, what we call him Red Bull, because his scam was based on Red Bull vending machines. But he always says that when he, during Vaudeer, he had one, one of the guys got up that they were questioning one of the potential jury members. And they said, do you think, after listening to all the evidence that you can find him, you know, not guilty? And he said, well, I mean, he was indicted on 34 counts of wire fraud. He did something. And Red Bull is like, he's like, that's like, he's honest. He's just said what I knew, everybody else was already thinking, but at least he said it. And he said, you know, he was struck, of course, but at least he said it. He said, everybody else is thinking that already, like if you're sitting there, you already look guilty. And the jury naturally believes that everything the prosecution is saying is true, because they're the good guys.

1:59:38Right. But until you go through the system enough time, you start to realize like, like, well, they're not, not saying they're bad, but I'm saying they're not always the good guys. And they're always going to skew things slightly. And people will hear what they want to hear. And you could do this in writing. If I say, you know, you know, he stole nearly a million dollars. When you repeat that story, you're going to say, he stole a million dollars. That's not what I said. He actually stole 780,000 dollars. When you said he stole a million, no, I didn't. I said nearly a million. It's subjective. 780. Isn't there nearly a million dollars? So, you know, people in there, you know, they're very good. You know, attorneys are very good at those subtle tweaks. And they know that you'll interpret that in a way that is to their advantage. So sometimes it's a blatant lie. And then sometimes it's just a subtle tweak.

2:00:40It's a, you know, it's funny. People are always saying, you know, oh, something's got to be done. It's a horrible system. But it's like, yeah, the system's really not bad. It's just that you've got humans involved. And humans are like, it's a good system. It's just, it's just a shitty situation when you've got all these people. And then they always, when they pass these laws, they give, they, they make the laws so general that they can be manipulated. And, and, you know, and it's just, it's some people, you know, if they, if you were arrested by the police, then you should go to jail. And it's like, well, wait a minute. Now, wait, hold on. You know, and then these pros and pros, the cuters will give you, he said, I'm willing to give this guy five years probation. The guy says, no, fuck you. I'm going to trial. I didn't do this. And he goes to trial. And then he gets him 20 years and he sleeps like a baby. He's like, well, you were okay with him getting five years paper. Right. So you don't really think he deserves 20. You're going to give him five. Maybe you thought he deserved a couple of years. System is very vindictive. You gave him 20. And you're okay with that. Yeah. Very vindictive. Yeah, you can't even, we had a judge

2:01:48in Orange County. And you have these turn in dates, right? And my friend's client had a turn in date for drug trafficking. It's a three year men man. You have to show up in court. And then you start your three years, get your fairs in order. He didn't show up. Now the judge can do anything. Judge gave him 30 years. They went up. They went. That went up on appeal. Like that is vindictive. Right. And they said, no, they let the 30 years stand. Are you serious? Yes. Usually they usually they say, no, we'll give him resentants him. Right. I was like when they said in the federal system, they'll say he has to be you can't do that. He'll be resentants. And they send them back to a different job in the federal system. They send them the same judge. Wow. You have to you have to prove that the judge is doing this out of spider for some reason that eventually they will send him to a different judge. Yeah. Because a lot of judges, they'll go back to be resentants and they'll go, okay, 10 years. Right. And let's say they gave him 10 years. No, this is out of the guidelines. It's too much. You can't give them 10 years.

2:02:51Okay, you have to recent and they don't say what? It's a guy leaves comes back and they go, he goes, okay, well, I'm here by resentants to you to 120 months ago. Well, you're honor. That's 10 years. Right. Well, the the pillow court said you had to resentants him. I just did. Right. He's been resentants. Wow. Then they go back and they come back with a. So you don't have to wait another. It's another 18 months. Right. Maybe if you're in prison, you might be doing it yourself. You might be paying a lawyer. You go back. Then they go back and they say, you think now they're going to give him another judge. No, no, they'll send him back and say, no, he's going back. But you have to sit in some within the guidelines. Right. And then he'll go, okay, you get the top into the guidelines 41 months. You know, right. Do you see what I'm saying? It's like, what are you doing? I have a buddy that's currently locked up. So I came in and I'm going to bore you with what a knucklehead this guy is. Right. But you know, and my wife doesn't understand this. But you go to prison and there are some people that make your, your stay easier. Does that make sense?

2:03:57Like it's, yeah, yeah, you know, you're surrounded by just, you know, by these people that you you're just like, I don't like any of these people. Like I shouldn't be in this situation. But there's one or two people that you're like, this is the guy that makes me laugh. He's funny. I can talk to like, right. And you beat you, you get this bond. Right. And so as a result of that, I have a soft spot for this guy. Right. He's just doing a long stint then because you've been out a while. Right. We, it's funny. This is funny. We used to, I've told this before, but at that point, I had 20, I had 26 year sentence, right. I got my sentence cut twice. But I had 26 years at that time. We were both in the medium security prison. And he had 16 years, I think. And so he the other day, so I'm sorry. So one day he tells me, he says, uh, bro, I had the weirdest dream the other day. Like you were calling me. And I was outside and you were inside. And I was trying to hit five to accept the call. And it wouldn't go through. And I really needed to talk to you. And I go, Hey, I have a question. I go, how come in your dreams? I

2:04:58said, I'm always in prison. And he goes, right, you got 26 years. Like, right, you're going to be in prison. And when I get out, and I was like, damn, I got out six months before he did. So, you know, I ended up getting out six months before. And we end up just by coincidence. We end up gosh, living four or five miles away from each other. Wow. Like, and I'd been out six months. And then he got out. Uh, and so he got out. And one day I got a phone call from a guy who said, hey, listen, do you know a guy named Isaac Allen? I went, yeah, why? He goes, he's here. He's at my buddy's house. And I was like, are you serious? He's, yeah, he's here with an ankle monitor. He went to the halfway house, came to stay here with his brother. And he's like, uh, and, and, and, I said, oh, where were you? And he said, oh, you know, I ended up saying, I knew a guy who was a call. And he's like, I was a call minute one point. Yeah, what's his name? He said, Matt Cox. And I was like, I know him. And he's like, that's my buddy. So, so, but since then he's gone,

2:06:00got out for a while, went back to prison. But on a small, is there always fraud charges? Went back for a fraud charge did about a year, got out. Um, and then was out maybe a year back to prison. Right. Another set of fraud charges, which is where he is right now. I got you. He's sitting in the jail. Specifically, you're going to go to trial. Right. Now keep in mind, even if he's sentenced to the felony, he's already done the time for it. Right. But he's going to trial to beat the felony. Here's a reason. If he takes the felony, he's telling him right now, they're telling him time served time served. Take the felony time served. He's like, no, I'm going to trial to beat the felony. And they're like, why? You know, like, what is like? Why? He's like, because he said, I'll take time served a misdemeanor because he's on federal probation. So if he goes back in front of his judge with another felony, he's going to give him, I think,

2:07:02he can give him like 38 months or something. Oh, yeah. And he said, or, or worse. Actually, that's not true. I think he can get him like 28 months, something like that. Well, he knows exactly what he can give him. Right. He can give me this much. He said, but here's my fear is that the judge gives me them like another five years of paper. And, and I'm, and the reason he's concerned about that is his judge. Everybody says their judge hates him. Right. Judges not like him. So he's like, my fear is he'll give me like five years. And then he'll let me have to go through a process of appealing it. And he'll drag it out. And I'll end up doing two or three years on something that I've already did a year for right in the state. Yeah. So he's like, but if it's a misdemeanor, he doesn't have a choice. But the three. He's locked in. Yeah, he, it's not a technical or it's a technical validation. All he can do is say, we're putting you back on probation. Right. And his probation was basically up. He had like a month left. So he'd be like, I'd be done in a month.

2:08:04Did they give him the misdemeanor? We're waiting. Wow. He hasn't gone. He hasn't. He's still, I think he's he's going back to court. The is it March 3rd? Yeah. Wow. And even that, I don't think it's the, I think that's just a set like a trial date or something. He's he's just, but yeah, he's just kind of a knucklehead. He just keeps going and people do not learn. I totally get that. You know, you'd mentioned something about you're talking in prison to the people about their attorneys. Right. And like, look, they're not doing any work. You know, some of them are not doing it anymore. Right. And I had one of those cases recently as a little more than recent. And this guy got 25 year min man on a firearm charge. It shots somebody whatever. But the point is it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, no, it wasn't, it like grazed his ear. And it was an accidental. It means that that shot. Yeah. No, it really was. And anyway. So he hired a private attorney. Now, the private attorney goes to see him at the Orange County

2:09:08jail when he gets the money upfront. Two years go by. And he never sees this guy. Never hears from him. The family's begging two years. He's sitting in jail waiting for trial on the day of trial. His attorney is like, here, take 10 years, right? Take 10 on the 25. And he's like, dude, I've never seen you. I saw you two years ago. Like really? Now you want 10 years? Like you, and he says, no, and he goes to trial and he gets 25. Oh, God. So I get called in on Florida. We call it a 3850, which is an ineffective assistance. That's not 2255. Is that what it is in federal? Okay. And so what this attorney had done was we have this thing called youthful offender in Florida. And if you're 21 or younger, you can get this special sentence. You don't have to get the firearm mandatory that somebody got shot. You can get like six years max. He let that birthday go by. While he was in there, he just let him fly by. And so

2:10:16by the time he went to see him on trial day, now fortunately, I got that guy out of his 25 years. It took many years. And at the trial level, the judge denied my 3850. We had to go back up to the appellate court and say, come on. Don't deny us. Let us have a full hearing. And eventually, we had a full hearing. But I'm telling you, you hit the nail on the head. Some of these attorneys get, he got paid very good money on a big K up front on a very big case and never talk to the guy for two years. I mean, one, I mean, it's just just such, it's just such a scumbag move. Oh, it happens though. And sad. The other thing is it's like, how can the judge deny you? And it's like, it's just so, this is a very clear. It's pretty, your honor. I know. It's clear. He didn't know anything. He just got a nice chunk of got 25 ran up front. The day of he's trying to

2:11:18convince him to like, he never did anything to work. This guy's ineffective without a doubt. There's no way you can say he even attempted to mount a decent defense for this. And the judges are like, no. Yeah. Yeah. The whole system is just kind of rigged like next case. Yeah. Yeah, you jade it. Like you said, it's we're not, we're not going to, we're not going to deal with it. You know, some Orange County, have you ever heard of these conviction integrity units? I know it's an American thing, right? But I don't know if it's still around, but Orange County had a conviction integrity unit where they were going back and looking at stuff and making a determination as to whether or not that person really was innocent. And then if they were, they'd, the prosecutors would, would get them out. Oh, nice. I don't think it happened. I was going to say, but it was like a nice press release. It was a nice thing. I don't think, but yeah, but they did do you, you remember the oxy craze? Yeah. And you know, in Florida, it was,

2:12:21it was like a 25 year man man, 15 year man man for just a, a bottle of them because they were so heavy. Yeah. The pills were so heavy. So I worked on this case where this gal got 20. I didn't do, I didn't do the case, but she got 25 years. And she basically just got set up, you know, standards set up. She's a nurse. She had pain. She's not drug dealer. Just a nurse with pain. And so she was acquiring pills. Well, I got in on one of those integrity situations. We got this new prosecutor in Orange County. Her name was Air Miss Isles. She was good. She was, she was a public defender. And she ran her state attorney. And she got it. And she went back. And she, she came to some of the private attorney. She's like, you know, some of these 25 year men man's are not fair. And she called it the pill project. And I got a couple girls out that were serving 25 like within four or five years. And she could she just thought about it. She's like, let's go

2:13:25through our records. Who got screwed on those 25s? Right. And we're going to get them out. And she did. I wish there was more of that because that's a waste of money to have, you know, those people in for 25. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think most of the drug things is like, yeah, these sentences are they're, you know, the drug only in right? Like, they're outrageous. It's like, come on, you could put these people in a program. How many how many drug treatment you could nice drug treatment programs? You could put these guys through five or six, 10 different drug treatment programs. For half the money, it's going to cost to lock these guys up. Like it's, it's just, it's just stupid. Like, but, you know, whatever nobody's asking my opinion. Um, uh, you know, I like, I've always said I you could take basically drop the budget for the prisons for, you know, 70% dump half of that money into education and the other half into drug rehabs and you

2:14:26probably get a hell of a lot further than you're getting with the mass incarceration. And all the, the crimes that those folks are committing to acquire their drugs, you're getting rid of those crimes too. Right. You know, it's not just the possessions. It's the theft in some of the other crap that's going on. And you and I both know drugs don't enhance harmony. There's more fighting, there's more violence. So you get the treatment and you're actually lessening all sorts of crime. Yeah. Yeah. They ain't going to do it. Yeah. Nobody cares. Nobody cares what we think. Uh, oh, I was thinking, did you ever read the book by John Grisham, the innocent man? No. No. No. It was, it's, I think it's, I don't know if it at that time, it was the only, uh, true, or only nonfiction book he'd ever written. Oh, it's nonfiction. It's not the only one at the, he may have written more since then, but at that time, uh, and I'll, it was one of the things which

2:15:28killed me was the entire time this guy who, this guy who had sex with this woman who's a prostitute. He, he, uh, the prosecutors had, there was DNA. Uh, uh, uh, there was DNA, but at that time, they, I don't think they could test it for anything more than let's say blood or something. Right. Or it was close to his match or something along those lines. Right. So the entire time during the, the trial where he's saying, I, yes, I know her. Yes, I slept with her. But I did not sleep with her that night or no more months and for eight of been months. And of course she was, she'd been, uh, you know, the person in the left, she had been attacked, left DNA inside of her and she was murdered. So he said, I didn't do this and he's on death row. So, uh, so finally the innocence project comes in. Uh, he's, this guy's waiting to be executed

2:16:30and say, always saying, didn't do it, went to trial, the whole thing. The innocent project comes in and they, they, now they can test DNA. So they test the DNA. And when they test the DNA, it turns out that it's not his DNA. Also, by the way, I think the ex, probably some other killer too. Well, the, the expert and that one, the expert that they put on the, say it was his DNA, botched the entire DNA. So it, so first of all, the, they didn't, when there was DNA, when there's DNA, the, at that time, the innocence project was like, oh, there's DNA. They didn't want to take the, because they were like, it's a guarantee. It's him. But eventually they looked at it and they were like, this doesn't even match. Like, how did this person get up and say that this was just completely some expert witness that was paid? There was a botched it. Didn't know what he was talking about, right? Do this all the time to these experts. They just say what, what the people want them to say. Right. So, so they end up getting the, the, so when they find out, they get it retested

2:17:30and they say, it's not his DNA. It's somebody else, this other guy's DNA. The prosecutor won't let go of it, will they? No, you know what they said. Now, the whole time they said, this man knew her, broken the house, their, killed her, did it alone. It was him. Now, when, when they found that information, they go back in front of the judge, they're like, judge, it's somebody else. Clearly, the DNA is not our client. You got a lot of amount of jail. They say, you're on a, this just means that he was working with someone else. Yeah. Like, you're right. You're the entire trial. You're, you know, your theory was he's worked alone. Right. It was him alone. Now you're saying there's an accomplice. And, and the whole thing, you know, those types of cases, it, it kills me. It's like, oh, come on, man, I get it to the adversarial. But this is not the guy. Now, ultimately, he ends up getting out of jail. You know, eventually they, they, they tried, he, they get him out of decades later. Of course, of course. There was another one. Uh, I cannot remember the guy's name. He has a, like, his last

2:18:34names, like, I don't know, Russian or something. It's tough. Uh, but he was 14, I see 14 or 15 years old. I'm gonna say he's 15 years old. Uh, 15 years old. Cause he wasn't driving. So he's a 15 year old awkward kid in high school. And one of his fellow students, what took a shortcut through some woods to go to our house. And you know how these subjects, every crime doc has something about the woods right out of there, right? It was. It was. Yeah. Gotta stay away from the woods. She gets attacked. She gets, you know, sexually assaulted and, uh, choked to death. Uh, and I think our face was covered, you know, the person threw up her some clothes over her face, where she's found, you know, she's done show up for home. They search, they find the woods where she, she's dead. So they get a, uh, they get a, uh, what is it? A psychological profile. Mm hmm. They take a psychological profile, which is it's somebody that

2:19:38probably knew her cause her face was covered. It's someone that knew her routine. So it's probably might be somebody at the school. Someone, she's a kid. So they go to the school. They start talking to her friends. Is there anybody that might know her anybody? And they go, well, you know, there is this one weird kind of, it's a little awkward kid. He's in one of her classes. And I, I think he knows her. And they're like, oh, okay. And he said, you know, I did know her. I knew her to say, his name is Jeff. It's Jeff something. Anyway. And they're like, so he's like, he's like, you know, no, no, I know her. So, you know, I put, we weren't like friends, but I knew her enough to say, you know, hey, Jennifer, and you know, hey, hey, Jeff, what's up? And I was in the woods. No, nothing. Yeah. He's just an awkward kid. And he, of course, his alibi is, I was playing with these kids basketball over here. And to loose, you know, but it's still half a mile away. Right. Maybe a mile away. And they bring them downtown or bring them, they bring them in several times, by the way, to question him. Right. But they're questioning him as if we need your help. Always. Right. Yeah.

2:20:44What do you, you know, who do you think could have been involved? Now, he also, by the way, at this time, wants to be a police officer someday. Oh, Lord. So he thinks, wow, like I, he admires these guys. What do you think would be involved in this, Jeff? Like, what do you think they would? You know, I don't know, because this is what we're being told. We think it's someone in the school. Really? Well, I mean, I, you know, she's got some, she's had boyfriends before. I know she dated this guy top. So he's, you know, he's just like, doesn't know. He's just thinks he's, and so what happened? He thinks he's being helpful. Eventually, they bring him in. This is over the course of weeks. One day, they bring him in and they start explaining that they're focusing on him that they think he might know. We understand that you were in factuated with her. We understand he's like, they started adding stuff. Yeah. So he, no, no, no, no, they question him for, by the way, they bring him in at like eight or like nine o'clock in the morning, grab him in front of the whole school. They go all day. He doesn't know he can leave. Right. Mom doesn't know he's

2:21:44there. Right. They question him all day. And he said, by the time it was done, he said, I've got the one police officer who's trying to help me. The other one who's threatening to hurt me and slamming his hand and scaring the hell out of me. Every time he opens the door, there's officers outside in the hallway, clinching the fist looking in there. You know, right. And he said, and basically the one officer explains that look, man, I'm just trying to get you out of this building. These guys want to hurt you. Right. And they tell him he's like, look, if you just do, just write up a confession. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And he said, he said, you know, he's like, that way, I'll be able to at least tell them I'm bringing you home and we can work this out later. But there's no way I'm going to get you terrified, terrified. He ends up, he said, you have to understand, by the time I write the confession, this is something people don't realize that there are lots of false confessions. Oh, yeah. People don't understand that. People think I would never. Yeah. You don't know. You don't know what what you would do in that situation. These people are skilled

2:22:46at doing all the physical things like you said to get you there. Yeah. Well, people also, when you hear about things like Stockholm syndrome, they think, you're telling me that this person kidnapped you. And two weeks later, when the cops show up, you're like, no, no, this is like, is it Samantha Smarter? I forget. Elizabeth. Elizabeth Smarter. Yeah. She was stopped by the police officer. She's telling the police officer, this is my father. What are you talking about? No, I'm not, I'm not the girl detective rolled up on that. Yeah. Even and that was twice. This is once and they let her go. Yeah. And then another time, then weeks later, they catch up to her again. And this time, they're positive. It's her. Yeah. And they, it takes some hours, hours. She finally get her to the police station before she admits it. Yeah. So, uh, but he's curled up in the corner, crying like a baby and he signs the confession. And then he thinks he's going home and then they put the handcuffs on him and they take him to jail. Uh, then they tell his mom he's been arrested. After the press release, after everything, they tell the mother, he ends up going to trial because

2:23:51then, of course, he gets a lawyer and he goes to trial. And there's, there is semen. They tested against him for the sure it's him. It's not him. And what they say is, no, the girl, the victim, by the way, the girl was promiscuous. She had a boyfriend. That was his semen. They've never tested the boyfriend. Wow. But that's what they say at trial. Right. He's lying. We're going to make up. We're just going to blatantly lie. It's not his. It's the boyfriend she had had sex earlier that day or the day before. And Jeff's attorney never said, where's the boyfriends DNA? How do you know it's a boy? Did you test it again? Nothing. Just blatant lies. Right. And so they go, he loses. He gets, I forget. He gets like a life sentence or 45 years, whatever it is. He goes, goes to prison as a, just a child and a horrible child for, of course, murder of a young girl, goes to trial, fights it the entire, realizes that his lawyers aren't helping him. They, he's not

2:24:54going to fights it for years and years. Finally, when he tells a story, it's, it's actually great. He's actually, and he's still an awkward guy. You talk to him and you look at him and you think, I can see how they, they, they, yeah, they, and then they pick you out because you're not a, you're not a, you were never a cool guy. You're, you're an awkward kid and I can see how the, the detectives were able to get you to do this. And why the other kids pointed at you right away, kids are cruel. Yeah. But when he tells a story, you know, he fought, he's like, and he'll go through everything because he did the legal work himself. I did that. Wow. I did teach my, 16 years. Finally, the, he, he applied to, after he lost everything, he applied to the Innocence Project multiple times. He's been turned down like twice. He finally gets a low level person who's like, um, it is just somebody who's helping out, right? They don't test the seamen like it. They tested the, the evidence. Well, they were going to test it. Right. She

2:25:55convinced, I think it, I think it was her. I think it's a woman, uh, like an intern convinces them to test this. It's expensive. Oh, yeah. It's cheap now. But it was expensive then. We're to $15,000. Like we're not dumping 15 grand into this. Right. Guys, lots of every appeal. They got boxes full of people that, that are right into them saying, right. Yeah. Finally, they, they're supposed to test it. The testing is going to be done. And it's going to do. They'll have it back within 90 days or something. Okay. So he's sitting there. And he said, I'm, you know, waiting. And he said, uh, one day he gets the guards are like, hey, man, you got to visit. And he goes to, I do, and he's like, no, he's like, my mom comes to visit me like that mom that she's not supposed to come for weeks, you know. Right. He, he goes in there and there, he, there's the woman is there. And she's like, hey, listen, you know, Jeff, I'm your attorney. And he's like, okay. She's like, okay, they're going to tomorrow morning. We're going in front of the judge. They're going to let you out. Do you have anywhere to go? And he goes, what are you talking about? And she said, he said it literally took her about 45

2:26:58minutes to an hour to convince him that this had happened. Right. He goes, no, no, no, no, no. She has no, the, the DNA, DNA came back. It's actually this guy that they know who it is. The guy that's locked up in like another state. So code it for so stuff, different day. After he murdered the girl, right. Six months later, he murders a school teacher with two kids. He gets caught for that one. Right. And he's in state prison. Had he not got caught on that? This dude was still being though. But, well, worse than that, had they done their job? Yeah. That school teacher wouldn't have been murdered. Exactly. So, yeah. And so Jeff is eventually convinced. So he's like, what do you, he's like, I haven't even tested the day. They even, she's like, no, it was tested. Right. He's like, I'm not, we're not even, it takes months. She's like, it was tested. We got the results back already. They just, you know, it just happened so quickly. So he goes in front of the judge, the judge lets him out. They're now going to retry him. What? Yeah.

2:28:02But, you know, they do that for a while to try and negotiate with you on what you're going to get. Because now they owe him money. Yeah. It's obviously not me. Yeah. And the system had failed all the way across the board. So he ends up getting a couple million dollars, goes to law school, becomes a lawyer. He's now a lawyer in, I don't know if he's in, I just thought in New York, it's somewhere up north, one of those square states. So he, and so he, I think he works with the innocence projects and he actually has gotten people out of jail now. Wow. But it's like, if those detectives had done, had, had done, just done their job and not bullied some kid and assigning a confession by coercion. And nothing happened to those detectives, by the way, nothing happened. So if they, he wouldn't have to spend 16 years in prison, the, the taxpayers of that state wouldn't have had to fork out a couple million dollars to pay him. And there'd still be a school teacher teaching school and

2:29:08would have been alive to raise her two kids. Yeah. All because some jackass, a couple of jackasses decided we can probably bully that they, they just decided. Right. We like this kid. This, we like this kid for it. Right. And that, that guy by the way, the guy had, he was a homeless guy at the time who had mental problems. He was sleeping in the woods. And she walked through and he saw the little girl and he attacked her. Yeah, woods are just bad. Yeah, stay out of the woods. Yeah. It's like whenever you watch a, you know, a horror movie and they say, well, is that, do you hear that in the basement? Like don't go in the basement. Exactly. Don't go in the basement. Yeah, these are given. Yeah. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do be a favorite. Hit the subscribe button in the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. If you want to get in contact with John, we're going to put all of his social medias in the description box. But by all means, please go to his YouTube channel and subscribe. But we are going to put all of his social medias there so that you can follow and check out his videos. They're super entertaining.

2:30:10That's how I found them. Once again, I really do appreciate you guys. Thank you very much. See you.