Whatever Happens, Farage Loses

0:00Welcome to Novara Live, coming to you from my home in Nottingham, as 36 degree temperatures does not a happy studio make down at Novara Towers. However, coming up on tonight's show, voters in Clapton go to the polls today as Naja Faraz risks losing his career to a talking bin. Netanyahu was rejected Donald Trump's 15 point plan for Gaza. Owen Jones takes on a cheerleader of Israel's genocide and Caroline Levin is leaving the White House. I'm Helena, I've always known as No Justice MTG and tonight I'm remotely joined again by Diabia Gabrielle, four ladies night, how are you doing, Dalia? Helena, I'm doing well, it's getting very hot in here, but I won't be taking all my clothes off so that this video doesn't get demonetized. Absolutely, we need to get that sweet sweet ad sensor revenue. But obviously the best way of supporting the channel is to go to Novara.medio-support-builder-bicommer-contributor to the channel. And as always, make sure to like the video, subscribe if you haven't already, and leave your comments in the comments section down below. After two very high profile by-elections already this year, in Make a Feel that Engorten and Denton, tonight we'll see yet another empty seat being filled,

1:03although this one was triggered by the resignation of one of its contestants in the form of reform UK leader Naja Faraz. He broadcasts himself publicly throwing his toys out the prime last month and standing down in the seat of Clapton, forcing a by-election to prove he has the backing of the people versus the establishment, in the wake of a parliamentary standards commission investigation, into the undeclared donation from a Thai-based crypto billionaire with £5 million. The issue for Faraj is that the establishment haven't turned up. All four of the main English political parties declined the invitation to participate in Faraj's stunt, meaning Faraj will only face down a gaggle of protest parties and meme candidates in the 34-name-long ballots getting marked today. Yes, there are 34 candidates standing in this by-election. The ballots are very, very long. Out of those many meme candidates, only one of them has gained notoriety as their main competition to Faraj, the comedy character of Kambin Face. He's been a mainstapelistical parody candidate for years now. Here he is immortalised in history, next to now Prime Minister Andy Burnham at the results of the Maker Field by-election earlier this year. Armed with a

2:03manifesto of drug policy such as capping 99 flakes at 99p and satirical ones such as a pledge to spend more time in Clapton on sea than Washington DC, he's been generating lots of buzz on social media, not just in the UK but around the world, even making it as far as the news in Japan. Clickton has released ALL Kinagi Hotels specialised in politics. He's actually from I don't think this was the kind of international acclaim that Nudgey Farage was hoping this biorelection would draw to be honest. Now Farage was asked in a recent interview with the

3:05Daily Express to comment on his parody opponent, however, and also to comment on the lack of the other opposition in Clanson. Have you met Count being face? You like him? I've got less in now. He's an extreme left-wing BBC comedy writer. He writes the sketches for the now very unfunny of what I got news for you. So he's not quite the joke character that you would have thought. I have spoken on the phone to the leader of the official Monster Raving, Luni Parsi. I've known Alan for 20 years and they've had one over on the electoral system because they officially endorsed three candidates. No one's ever done that before in British politics, so they're absolutely wetting themselves well after. One or two of the independence have reached out. But look, I mean, when David Davis did this back in 2008, I think there were 28 candidates. Now there are 34. I will say this, that in this area, the Conservatives have done themselves the most enormous damage. A lot of voters on the door say we are deeply insulted. There is not

4:08a Conservative candidate and I say that in the context that as recently as 2019, the Tories got 72% of the vote here. And they're just not here at all. So long-term, it's really odd. Two years in a row, the Tories tried to stop the Essex County Council elections from going ahead. They went to Hebbie because of a legal action that I brought. They don't want a general election. I mean, haven't put a candidate up here. So I think long-term, they've made a really bad error. The problem that Farah Shaz is that whilst he can try and claim that the Conservative party are undermining their own voters in Clatson by refusing to stand a candidate. Because of course, they even got lots of votes at the last general election too. The problem is that he is the one undermining the electoral process in Clatson by calling this by-election in the first place. Because there could well be another by-election sometime soon, given the fact that if he wins this by-election, which you know, he may not do, I mean, at the current polling, it looks like he's going to get about 70% to account bin face around about 30%, which would be a humiliation.

5:10If he gets, you know, less than 70%, it would go from being cringed to a humiliation for him. But assuming he does get re-elected to Parliament, that Parliamentary Standards Commission investigation into that 5 million pound donation from the Crypto billionaire, that will restart immediately. If it's found to have broken the rules and he gets suspended for more than 10 days, there could be a recall petition and we could be end up in this whole situation all over again, where there'll be another Parliamentary by-election, where the Conservative Party will stand a candidate. And for Raj's point that these people are having their votes taken for granted, or their participation in democracy taken for granted, he is going to be the one who looks silly when he's going to go through the whole electoral process all over again, dragging the voters of Clatson all the way through the polls yet again, again taking their votes for granted. Whilst the Conservatives and other political parties who have an electorate in this constituency have plagued their cards correctly in only standing in the one by-election that matters, the one that Naja Farage will have been forced to stand in where his competition will be real,

6:12rather than the one that he's called himself a political stun, which now everyone sees to be the stunt for what it is. Now he's not the only one to try and apply that the count is some secret lefty however, too. Here's GB News contributor Adam Brooks responding to reports alleging that the mainstream parties have been canvassing against Farage. The establishment will do anything to stop Naja Farage. I'm disgusted at these people. They clearly don't care if the people of Clatson have a left-wing Joker as MP, traitors. I see we've gone from calling Ben Wallace a traitor to now calling all of the political parties traitors for backing a parody candidate against a political party that they oppose, right? You know that's how politics works, Adam, you're supposed to oppose your political opponents, right? Like who should give them a free run at reelection in all cases? I think that backing somebody who might potentially embarrass your political opponents is just part of the whole business of engaging in the acts of opposition in this case. What I will point out though is that if you're trying to market Count Binface as a joke candidate, as a parody candidate,

7:17someone who's there to undermine the whole fact that this election has been called in the first place. The idea that the establishment parties would then go and back them undermines that and it helps lionize, it helps reify. Naja Farage's position in his rhetoric around it being a people versus the establishment by election. Like Count Binface is supposed to be this parody candidate, the people are voting for to try and upend Naja Farage for, you know, joke reasons, rather than a serious candidate with the backing of the political establishment. That's what Naja Farage wants. As for Count Binface being some kind of lefty, he's mostly just a bit of a common or garden liberal. And in terms of his political activism as a parody candidate, he's paraded everybody, he paraded Andy Burnham in make a field, he paraded all the other political parties in previous biologstions when he stood against prime ministers or political leaders in the past. The idea that he only goes after the right wing in a some kind of crazy left-winger when he's been very critical of people like Corbin and Polansky is nonsensical as far as I'm concerned.

8:17Adalia, what do you make of Farage's stunt here? Do you think it'll pay off? Which I think he's looking at the barrel of humiliation? I have to say I have really enjoyed this season of British politics where we've been watching Naja Jaw Farage, you know, very earnestly describing this bi-election as him against the establishment and then it's like camera pans and the establishment as a man with a bin on his head. And I have this wonderful image of like countries all over the world like tuning in and being like what's going on in British politics? Seeing this farce and being like this this is the end part. This was the place that colonized us like this is the empire like what's what what has happened. But I think the kind of the broader question here is you know what is to become of Naja Jaw Farage. There is a shift happening. I can't tell you yet whether it is decisive but there is certainly a shift you know for 18 months now Farage has felt like a

9:19completely unstoppable force in British politics you know and this this bi-election which he as you mentioned Helena has sort of engineered himself which was triggered to try and avoid scrutiny over his own finances is kind of a good moment to talk about what are the actual vulnerabilities in project Farage that are kind of coming to the surface right now and coming to the surface specifically through the nature of the the crypto scandal and the ways in which he is being stress tested by the media in a way that he has not really ever been stress tested in in his career because for me the fundamental vulnerability in Farage is the fact that at his core the only thing that he is more loyal to than anti-immigration politics is neoliberalism. So he represents the

10:20very politics that is currently making a lot of his newly acquired base really suffer which is you know economically insecure voters in the north and east of England. You know this Farage is a man who called Liz Trusses in many budget the best conservative budget since 1986 he absolutely believes that you know the free market should hold ultimate power in in governing society and I would highly recommend reading Dan Trilling's most recent book Dan Trilling has been a long-term journalist studying the far right in Britain and he sort of talks about what where is the far right in this current moment and he points out that Nigel Farage's three greatest political influences are Margaret Thatcher, Keith Joseph and Enoch Powell and these are three of the most important architects of neoliberalism and free market fundamentalism in this country and globally.

11:22And so there's an irony there which is that the man who worships neoliberalism has kind of become the single biggest political beneficiary of its collapse and ultimately looking to Nigel Farage to sort of heal the wounds of neoliberalism is kind of like looking to the sun to heal your sunburn because the thing that about Nigel Farage that no one really stress tests properly is that reforms coalition when when you go beneath the anti-immigration sentiment which they broadly all agree on they don't really agree on much you know a 2025 survey found that a quarter of reform voters are those economically insecure voters largely based in the north of eastern and east of England they're strongly pro welfare they're strongly pro-state they want better wages their pro workers rights but then the other biggest chunk of his base are you know round a fifth are affluent voters

12:27who largely live in the south who actually want the exact opposite they want less state spending they want no workers rights they want no state intervention other than state intervention that secures the rights of the market and so they are fundamentally deeply opposed these two groups don't agree on anything other than immigration and even their their politics of immigration and their opinions on immigration are kind of rooted beyond just racism are rooted in two different things you know the affluent southerner hates immigration because they think that state spending is bad full stop and that immigrants are the biggest beneficiaries of state spending if you get rid of all the immigrants they certainly aren't going to believe that you should that the state should spend on white working class British people um whereas the economically insecure nor the nerds and easterners hate immigration because they like state spending but they think that state spending is being disproportionately or erroneously spent on immigrants instead of them so ultimately Farage has never had to yet

13:36address that contradiction and and show where his actual loyalties um lie he's never had to choose between them because the traditional media has never really been interested in anything other than the the anti immigration sentiment that has bound them together because the media finds that to be an exciting and interesting um and subversive story so the question of what is going to happen to Farage going forward you know is this going to be just a blip in a in a broader rise to power or is this going to actually be the beginning of him being brought down is really going to rely on whether or not we can really press that contradiction because when you strip it all back Farage's heart has never been with that former Labour Heartland economically insecure voter in Clackton or Blackpool or Hartleypool or wherever his heart his the consistent political core and his consistent political beliefs have always been with the affluent neoliberal anti welfare um you know shred the state uh

14:43voter and that section of his base that's always been his actual base from the very beginning so the question of whether this is going to be you know a little kind of diversion or whether this is going to begin the highlighting of that contradiction that he's always gotten away with really depends on how we as the left um decide to press on that contradiction because it is actually a weakness um and it's probably the only route we have to really stopping um Farage becoming the next prime minister one thing i would say is i have noticed a real change in the media ecosystem and how they dealing with Farage you go a real boost from the establishment media for quite a while up until the 5 million pound donation thing kicked off and there was a perceived weakness i could perceive chink in the armor of Niger Farage alongside what we're seeing in terms of what's happening in Trump's America and suddenly it feels like that the boosterism of the righting media has moved away from Farage and towards Kemi-Badark i think what a lot of the establishment media have done and which has caused

15:47such a political crisis for Farage is that they've seen the business outcomes of what trumpism is done to America which is overwhelmingly in bad for business which is a lot of what these establishment media companies are there to represent the interests of the business community and they've seen actually do it really one right-wing populism to really want someone like Nara Jafaraj in charge of the country is that going to be good for business and broadly we've seen that that's not been the case in Trump's America something similar happening here wouldn't be good for the vested interests of the media class in this country so i think the change from what i've seen i don't know if you have the same experience style yet of Farage boosterism towards Kemi-Busterism it gets precious little criticism from the mainstream media at all outside of the like the neo-nancy stuff we covered last week have you seen that kind of shift there on my putting the card before the horse here i think it's interesting what what you say i think uh whether or not trumpism has been good for business in the u.s i think is a contested question i think it's

16:50been really good for some business and it's been not so good for other business you know when we talk about kind of the economic elite or business interests this is not a homogenous force it's not a completely united force there are contradictions and factions within it and trumpism has certainly bolstered some of that and perhaps been a bit more tricky for other parts i think what's what might be um true however is that trumpism has been bad for media in the sense that it's been you know bad for journalist you know the journalists and the press are getting routinely humiliated and chewed up by by trump and we're gonna come on to the caroline leave at story soon um but overall you know trump has really as part of his strategy uh to look like a populist has really fermented hatred against the press and against journalism um and you know i am no one i'm not someone to sit here and say that you know the press is wonderful and the press as it currently stands must be defended at all

17:53costs but i can imagine that like if you are a journalist or if you are an editor you probably don't want someone to come along and just bash you over the head and and turn the the people and turn people against you or make the public um distrust you so i wonder if that's kind of part of it but i also think that it's not so much that the media are hounding farage right now i think it's more of contrast to how soft the treatment has been thus far you know the the treatment the the endless sort of um puff pieces the the ability to have you know host positions on key radio um brought like channels the ability to be on question time constantly even though you have been running to be a member of parliament you ran for to be a member of parliament 30 years before you actually managed to get elected as an MP the the the the the the the the the the the affordability of the press and the the desire of the press to platform farage in a way that completely outsize whatever

18:57legitimate claim he might have to representing a serious part of the british political system was so unusual and so strange that even the most basic stress testing which every political figure of significance in this country is put through seems to be like a real change i think what we're seeing more it is is a is a matter of contrast to what has been actually quite historically unusual soft soft hand treatment and the reason that they have that soft hand treatment is because Nigel for a much like trump is really good at generating stories it's really he's really good at generating entertainment he's really good at pulling stunts at saying things that feel like an exciting story to tell and that feels like it sells newspapers he was kind of you know at a time when british politics felt you know felt like there was very very little difference between the different

19:58political parties it was very boring it was kind of very flatline there wasn't a huge amount going on Farage came and brought entertainment he brought something different he bought like he was like an interesting character and you know i think my theory is that a lot of journalists are kind of failed novelists who just like to sort of write good stories and i think that alongside with the fact that his actual politics don't really threaten most vested interests in this country because as i said he's a rampant neoliberal made for quite a fun comfortable relationship between and mutually sort of symbiotic relationship mutually beneficial relationship between Farage and the press and i think the dual threat of a Farage um prime um premiership potentially being based on sowing hatred of the press um say hatred against the press in the way that it didn't with trump and the fact that he is now undeniably a serious political um figure has led to the press to treat led the press to treat him a little bit more like a normal politician which they never really

21:02did that before and i think another thing as well is that in the same way that stama got incredibly incredibly favorable press in the run up to the 2024 election is that the press perceived him to be the heir apparent and that was the case with Farage for a long time to win reform were 30 percent and the polls their projection show in them with 400 seats a stama style supermajority and if they'd ever crossed him in the wrong way up until he became prime minister suddenly they'd lose access and they'd lose access to all the stories all the good copy that would all go away once they have engaged in some kind of hostile relationship with the prime minister to be and so they wanted to make sure that they maintained good relationships with the political parties now that's lesser sure to now that it's a bit more up in the year who the next PM is they're feeling a little more okay to be a little bit further critical for Farage and for Arjism because it's not guaranteed that he's going to be the next prime minister will have to wait and see the world's attention may have moved away from Gaza but the Israeli government certainly hasn't and all the science now pointing in

22:07a single conclusion as many of us have argued since the start the genocide nearly three years ago Israel clearly intends to stay in Gaza over the weekend Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu explicitly rejected US President Donald Trump's 15 point peace plan that care about after her mass had agreed to decide according to the plan her massive disarmament process should go hand in hand with a faced withdrawal of Israeli troops from the uncle of Netanyahu however immediately shifted the goalposts saying the military would only withdraw after the complete disarmament of the group and today Israel cats the country's defense minister has instructed troops to prepare for a long term stay in all three of the major territory Israel now occupies military namely South Lebanon Syria's golden heights and Gaza promising that there'll be no withdrawal from any of them this part Trump doesn't seem particularly bothered by Netanyahu's unilateral tanking of his plans even if it was one of the most experts claimed would never work Netanyahu however will face crucial elections in October recent polling conducted by the economist chose that right now Netanyahu's right wing coalition government is not on track to retain a majority of seats in Israel's parliament

23:11nor is any other party Netanyahu has lost favor over various domestic policies including the cost of living because surprise surprise for ever was quite expensive but there remains a little opposition to his genocidal military strategy in Gaza with his main opponents differing only on the details and his party lukut has shown every sign of moving towards even more extreme positions on Palestinians ahead of October on Wednesday the party changed its rules to create a place for far out politician al-Mok Cohen who early this year said quote my feeling for avengers yet to be satisfied i want more revenge i want more of the blood of the enemy who slaughtered our children raped our women and burned our homes he's talking about civilians there but that is of course what the Israeli military is very good at doing killing civilians in an extraordinary article in Israeli newspaper harret one soldier involved in that killing has claimed she was fooled by the Israeli army into killing children saying they had told us she was only killing terrorists for 22 year old enlisted in the IDF in 2022 and served in both Gaza and Lebanon in what's being called the forward fire command center that's an armored personnel carrier containing the

24:14systems used to determine targets for artillery fire in a time in the army she helped Israeli soldiers fire thousands of shells only realizing that maybe just maybe something was off when she left the IDF she told her at this i left the army and saw the number of children killed and i was shocked i started searching obsessively for information online i looked the neighborhoods we attacked the villages i saw that many innocent people were killed in these places i saw pictures of dead children in the army they told us we only killed terrorists but that's a lie artillery fire is in precise the army considers a hit within a 50 meter radius to be a good hit she also detailed the impact her murders have had on her i have nightmares i see inside my head dead children crying i imagine how the bodies are removed the guilt doesn't leave me how can it i killed an innocent child i was the one who fed the targets it's on me well she's not wrong still killing all those kids seems to have tore her some lessons with the former soldier saying this before the army i was an extreme right-winger one who would say death to Arabs that was the myth in school that influenced

25:17me but after the war i understood there's a difference between her mass terrorists and Palestinian two-one peace who want life i saw the conditions in which garsans live i realized there must be a change that we must strive for equality for peace this is the only way to save children to save us all well this genocidal substory was published by harats israel's most liberal newspaper if that's what counts as opposition to genocide in israel there'll be no end to the israel military crushing of gars of the west bank in south elevenin whether by netanyahu or potential identic replacement in october and while israeli soldiers complaining about the lack of post genocidal therapy they're getting don't worry our own government have been shipping in to classifiers reporter today on how british taxpayers have been funding therapeutic healing for israeli soldiers after his rady chari was able to claim gifted in the uk the investigation reveals this emails obtained by declassified show how the yadolom foundation and israeli veterans group tells british supporters to channel their donations via its regited partner platform in the united kingdom processing your donation through them ensures you receive full tax recognition and enables gift aid

26:19maximizing the impact of your contribution it says 100% of your gift is rooted directly to yadolom to support our core mission the yadolom foundation directs british supporters to a list of fund raising projects for the idea veterans claiming that donations would be eligible for the tax subsidy the list includes funding a five thousand pound therapeutic healing journey for soldiers returning from gaza as well as individual psychological treatments the foundation is also raising money for a hundred thousand pound memorial hall to commemorate fallen israeli soldiers now dahlia a couple of questions i guess firstly i want to ask you about the article in harrets involving the soldiers kind of admission of the crimes that the idea of been doing in gaza and all the children that they've killed now of course it's a bit of a sub story talk about how it's affecting her rather than you know what the actual effects were on all of the children that she'd killed but it does show just how much the ideology of the basis of the state of israel the ideology of zinism the ideology that is pushed upon the israeli public in the way that they manufacture consent broadly for these far-right views that

27:22she'd previously held that made her join the military in the first place to engage in this mass killing engage in this genocide it poisons the souls of the very people that it claims to want to protect it poisons the population of israel so this is why we see these polls showing very heavy support in israel for the genocide in gaza and what it seems to be plurality if not majority support for the ethnic cleansing of palestine both in the west bank and in gaza and potentially even arab citizens of israel as well what did you make of her words there i think the first thing to say really and i think that there is something to be said for israeli is talking about how the most unbelievable racism and hatred is engendered at multiple stages of israeli life to help us understand how we get to a position like this because of course you know the the typical story that has been told now that the west has has has been told is that

28:27palestinians are taught to hate you know there's this idea that palestinian children are raised to hate uh Jewish people and that's where this conflict comes from and i think it's an important clarification to say that actually a lot of that structural engendered hatred and belief in the dehumanization of the other is actually happening um within israel and i think there is a broader danger here that's something that i worry about um that you know if netanyahu loses a selection uh in october or loses his majority that there's a risk that the west will misread that as the kind of end of the problem because now a lot of pro-Israel voices in the west have worked very hard to make this out to be a netanyahu problem that this is a an individual failure of netanyahu's leadership that netanyahu is uniquely bloodthirsty in israeli society but

29:30that's obviously not where dissent against netanyahu from within israel is coming in fact it's actually quite the opposite there's a lot of dissatisfaction with netanyahu believing that he is not gone far enough um and the rest of it is kind of just fatigue you know netanyahu has been prime minister forever um and you know he spends half of his time in court fighting corruption charges so there's that kind of very internal domestic frustration with netanyahu um so it's not really about a reflection of a a broader sort of dissatisfaction or dissent with the actual project of the elimination of the Palestinians that is quite a consensus um across israeli the israeli political spectrum when it comes to the higher its peace uh you know these soldiers describing having severe PTSD um and you know not being able to get uh adequate health care uh in in context of that the

30:31first thing i would say to that is the only way that israeli society will be able to address that within them is by stopping and is by reparations um it's not through individual psychotherapy that doesn't leave you that kind of internal damage of your soul um but also it's it's difficult to read um when you are thinking about what it means sitting next to what is happening on the other side the fence you know there's there's a lot of talk here about the soldiers with PTSD the soldiers with PTSD i can't help but think about how psychologists working in Palestine um have been saying for a while now that the trauma in Gaza is so severe so relentless that it is actually broken our existing clinical understanding of trauma um you know dr. Samakh Jabra who is the the chair of the mental

31:32health unit um at the Palestinian Ministry of Health um has argued that we need an entirely new framework of trauma um to explain and describe what is happening in Gaza she calls it um CTSD continued traumatic stress disorder because Gaza's Palestinians and Gaza are never reaching the state of post um when you have this compounding effect of living in the most severe imaginable state of abject horror it produces something very different and something that can't be healed in the ways of in the clinical existing clinical understandings um of trauma you know changes to personality changes to belief sent belief systems to coping mechanisms at a whole population level um you know an inability to have a baseline of safety um to to return to and so that's why you know even before um october 7th you know in 2022 there was a survey that found that you know foreign five

32:37children in Gaza experienced depression and grief um and three and five children are actually self-harming and so that is in a sense all it has always been a kind of deeper problem with the way in which western centric understandings of trauma have existed you know most of our evidence based for evidence based for trauma studies have come from veterans you know have come from soldiers who have gone to war experienced horrors conducted horrors um and then come back to a place of relative safety but have been unable to shake the kind of trauma of what they've done and what they've seen and actually very little of our understanding of trauma looks at the other side of that and looks at what what does it mean to the people who were on the receiving end of that attack and whose infrastructure and families and countries and land have been destroyed irreversibly as a result of that so this is an ongoing problem in kind of the the way in which we just sort of don't view people um in

33:41the global south as humans in the way that we view others humans who have interior lives who have emotional lives um but it also speaks to a kind of specific uh contrast that we can see right now of the discussions happening in Israel around PTSD and you know uh shock and claims that we need to have that there needs to be more mental health help for soldiers returning from Gaza when on the other side of the fence there aren't even ICU units to treat people who are in acute health like physical health crises like on the brink of death um let alone before we get to the question of how do you mentally heal and psychologically heal from what's what's happened which is a whole different question and and personally I would quite like my taxpayer money um to be going towards dealing with that issue and that's actually where our political moral responsibility lies because that is an outcome of the harm that the British state has helped perpetuate um that to me um is really the

34:43emergency here it's been a while since youtube appears Morgan has enlisted the services of Owen Jones and the trenches of the online political warfare that his unscented channel has become a fleet luckily for us however oh must back on the channel this week to debate columnist for newsweek Josh Hammer on the subject of Israel's genocide in Gaza and as you can imagine just as all debates with Zionists end up it involves Owen Jones having to debunk a whole host of lies let's take a look at what happened if this had happened in let's call it Texas if you had thousands thousands of Cinelloa cartel commanders who came across the border and just blindly mutilated and raped and butchered they put babies not been so they executed women plank plank range on the home how would the United States respond how would we respond these are the kind of questions that have gone so far removed from this debate and no matter how many fancy words like genocide get perversely and morally incorrectly and legally incorrectly tossed around I think is a comment upon all the visual people to ground themselves in the basic facts and Owen Jones can

35:47laugh his sorry ass off who he wants no no no no no one in the right mind really ought to give a correct correct can I just respond to something you just I'll respond if if if you let me to what you just said that you you just said that babies were put in ovens on seven or twenty but why lie like that you know that's why you know that never happened you know that never happened you know not single baby one baby which was right that we miss and you had a long spiel and now going to facts correct you because you can't just come on a show like this I know you don't do I know you just like to see I know you like to see these discussions no babies were put in another one and seven of October one baby you still do not over seven which was bad enough that's me look how in she was eight months old she was shot through the door of a safe room that's the baby who's killed us have the October that's the crime in itself if that's the crime which I say it is by the way what is the how to describe a thousand babies one thousand infants under the age of one killed in Gaza by Israel since seven October the babies and ovens claimers are now widely debunked hoax from the first three months after the al-Aqsaq on October the seventh according to her retz the

36:48claim had originated from the united hat zala present Eli bear and were completely unverified this was alongside other well-known hoaxes such as the story of 40 supposedly beheaded babies they even drove by in spread of their evidence and another claim that was also debunked by the al-Jazeera investigative unit that the bodies have burned babies were allegedly found in kibbutts beery by the IDF and think what this shows is just how much of a bubble the internet creates for a lot of people especially if you're somebody who doesn't like responding to things that count your narrative in safaris this guy seemed genuinely convinced and those easy to believe a lot of propagandists are just lying because they want to make sure that people stay in the dark but a lot of people I think genuinely have accepted a bunch of pro-zyanist propaganda they accepted a bunch of the atrocity propaganda on October the seventh because they wanted to be able to justify thinking of everybody who was in Palestine all members of all different resistance groups all of being total barbarians with no regard for humanity at all because a it would justify all their pre-cissived biases against people like the Palestinians against Arabs against people from the global

37:49south and on top of that to be able to justify whatever reaction came from metanyahu from the Israeli government from the IDF in response to what happened on the October the seventh again there were lots of bad things that happened on October the seventh you need to do this atrocity propaganda unless you're specifically using it to try and then post-tog or pre-hawk justify other such atrocities happening in the other direction from the IDF now open them put some of Hamas own statements to him and here's how he responded I would just note with you because you are a supportive genocide and I will make that very clear I am not you said about these about the Palestinian population of Gaza you said this is a radicalized population that deserves shame just scorn and diplomatic review you weren't talking about Hamas they deserve it you talked about the Palestinian population of Gaza that's what you said you also said last month's population of the power of the cause every single time in 2023 you also called for the population transfer of the people the survivors of Gaza into other Arab states you want Palestinians removed from Gaza you don't want Palestinians to remain a Gaza that's what you called for you will never

38:52prove to the military occupation I think it's a provolation of Gaza exactly for you also said did you say that never actually did you personally keep out and badly fibro that that's simply not true did you say sorry did you do it did you know I'm quoting for what you said did you not call for population transfer of the people of Gaza no I I know I know first of all I think it's a very reasonable option by the way there's a very long history of American presidents going literally back to the Hoover and Cooled administration to actually support that I've actually never explicitly endorsed myself I've no doubt it calls for both you said Donald Trump in March of 2025 in the White House proposed this by way yes and you proposed this and no what I said is that I mean you said I don't know what whether your IQ is two or three standard deviations below the mean but the way the negotiation works no no I just probably said you you start no but you need to learn thing in two bad negotiation you start and they can't go out there claim and then you arrive at a reasonable place moderation Donald Trump did this it was his proposal yeah to to float the idea of traveling it's absolutely crazy no one had their either bingo card no one

39:54needs to let me let me just make this clear if I called for the popular if I called for the Jewish population of Israel to be removed from Israel which I don't support I oppose I want the peace and security of all those are a little bit between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean yeah yeah what all of them to have it all I think if I called for the population transfer of Jews from Israel you would regard that as genocide on do you know what you'd be absolutely correct you said if I said the Jewish population of Israel deserves shame score in the diplomatic the buke you would accuse me of being genocide or you'd be correct you said many gullible libel leads protecting the radicals he had his so how much do you not represent the broader Palestinian Arab population for that is a lie you believe in collective guilt it is you believe in collective punishment you said that Gaza should resemble a parking lot you got your wish by the way you got your wish tens of thousands of minutes of the whole of later of Gaza should be sent in parkline that was literally on October 8th 2000 and 23 this is how you got your wish how wars work it's so funny for him to sit there and say well actually it's a perfectly reasonable solution of ethnic cleansing but I never endorsed I never endorsed it well we're about to find out whether he endorsed

40:57it now here is the direct quote from Josh Hammer on ethnic cleansing the Owens referencing it was tweeted out as he said on October 8th immediately evacuated as many identifiable civilians no easy task as possible from Gaza work with Egypt to take most in ideally with diplomatic carrots and sticks but if need be a refugee swarm on the board defense and forcing Egypt's hand might be inevitable and here he is calling for us tways of Gaza to be turned into a parking lot flat and up and raised to the ground and the thing remotely smacking of jihadist infrastructure in Gaza large swathes of Gaza should resemble a parking lot the extent to which the entirety of Gaza and a mass terror infrastructure tunnels rocket launchers etc are synonymous cannot be overstated they are largely one and the same with terror infrastructure embedded within civilian buildings for good measure as well here he is agreeing with ultra Zionist Na'hman Mostovsky on the use of excessive force in Gaza Mostovsky says that the Allies didn't stop Nazis and imperial Japanese with targeted strikes they bombed the ever living shitha of Germany in Japan now its

41:58Gaza's turn barbarians only understand utter destruction to a tamar response i believe the military term which the civilized world has largely forgotten since world war two is unconditional surrender i would like to remind viewers at home that bombing the ever living shitha of Japan involved the use of nuclear weapons which was justified in explicit terms by harrier's Truman as their method of achieving an unconditional surrender which is clearly from if what i'm guessing from that tweet what Josh Hammer supports there dahlia what was your reaction to that debate i mean it immense frustration and and kind of bored and you know watching Josh Hammer and I know and Jones going at it um on pierce morgan it just made me feel about feel how tedious it's becoming that the press insists on relitigating who the victims are here trying to pretend that that is still where this discussion is at you know we didn't have this debate when russia invaded Ukraine

43:00and we don't have it in any other case that is is this clear cut only in this case have we you know years after the fact continue to have these tedious conversations trying to tease out and question who the aggressor and who the victim is here and frankly the world has has moved past that framing i mean um you know even jd vant uh who is not exactly known here for having pre-existing sympathies towards the Palestinians said that trump is the only head of state in the world that is still sympathetic to the country of israel which tells you that even you know the u.s. government the u.s. state uh understands that israel is broadly isolated and throughout the world their narrative of what has been happening uh is rejected um you know this idea that israel is kind of the rightful occupiers of this land and and the primary victims of a bad neighborhood that idea is

44:04collapsing in basically all four corners of of the earth and you know i have to be very clear here that even if public opinion wasn't strong um it would still be you know morally and politically correct to be in solidarity with the Palestinians but the fact is that is where public opinion is out and public opinion is important because it can be a factor that shapes what actually happens next if it if it meant nothing israel would not have poured you know billions of dollars uh over the past several decades trying trying to shape it um so my question is what is the function of the press continuing to act like this is a debate when in the minds of most reasonable people it is no longer a debate because it's a delay tactic because what we have to really understand here um is that as far as israel is concerned if you're looking at this from the perspective of the israeli state this war on gaza is the final war it is the war that is going but in their view is going to end

45:07this problem of gaza which has been a problem for 70 years in their eyes and the resolution to that problem is elimination whether it's through genocide or through displacement or through a combination most likely of the two and the longest that this drags the longer that this drags on in this kind of realm of discussion the close the more time they have to achieve that objective the israeli state knows that the clock is ticking you know the clock at the time is running out they know that public opinion is either turning or has already turned they know the icj ruling is damning and that it's likely when it comes in its final form is going to be even more damning they know that politicians throughout the world uh understand that showing uncritical support for israel is a political and electoral liability so the strategy here is really simple the strategy is you know run out the clock uh get what you can done in the time that you can get it done and

46:09will clean it up when the problem has been solved the problem being the existence of Palestinians on this land and it's very telling to me that in those tweets from Josh Hammer um he and this is something that a lot of pro israel voices do they use atrocities committed by the us um like dropping the nuclear bomb in order to legitimize israel's right to conduct similar atrocities you know they'll say um basically under the the idea that it's it's it's unfair to say that you know the u.s. can commit atrocities Britain can commit atrocities and we can't and i think that that is actually the calculation being made here you know i think that that as far as the israeli states concerned and you know a lot of people in israel are concerned you know a country like the us is a state that was born out of a broadly successful genocide and you know they got away with it why can't we then no one now questions um the us's um ability to exist no one really talks about

47:15and the history of that genocide um the difference is is that the world's eyes weren't on that genocide the world's eyes weren't watching and also there wasn't an international legal framework that was ostensibly supposed to stop it happening again um does that mean that israel definitely won't be able to get away with what the state like the us was able to get away within the past not necessarily but it does mean that israel is operating in slightly different conditions and is why they are coming up against a level of resistance that perhaps that they experience as an unfairness of double standards now another more encouraging news it looks like at least one of the abilities for israel to garner cultural capital has been kept in check year of vision have announced plans to stop countries from hosting your vision should they be involved in armed conflicts or sensitive geopolitical situations meaning israel almost certainly be barred from hosting the competition in future obviously there's plenty of cultural capital to be had million competing in your vision until a thief is well aware of this fact israeli broadcast editor eran kikarel described your

48:20vision as a critical arena for israeli advocacy and the israeli government has spent millions on propagandising the contest so whilst a hosting band doesn't go far enough in my opinion it at least stymies the potential of the hasbro going to overdrive should israel win the contest in future a dalia an encouraging development you think not entirely and i'll get on to why i think so in a minute i've always found israel's participation in your vision really funny it kind of speaks to the heart of israel's identity crisis which is you know are we an outpost of of western civilization you know fighting the barbarians in their own land or are we indigenous to the land that the barbarians are currently occupying i mean look like i'm not one to kind of sit here and and police the racial borders of europe but it's curious to me given that that is normally how the borders of europe are policed but let's when we when we think about you know whether or not

49:22your this is really Eurovision taking a stand first of all we need to understand that Eurovision has done this because of immense backlash so it's not something that Eurovision has done because of some kind of you know internal principle you know there was people rightly pointed out that russia was immediately banned from the the contest not just from hosting but from participating um and that was because russia was credibly considered to be doing war crimes um why is it not the same for israel and as a result five countries boycotted um Eurovision added added a lot of um viewers so they've tried to get out with that in possibly the most cowardly way um possible um firstly obviously they not actually banned israel in the way that they did with russia they you know so they're still giving israel this like special treatment um and secondly because when you actually look at the press release um that the ebue which is kind of the broadcasting um company that that is Eurovision um

50:26you'll see that their press release was very different to the one that they released when they banned russia when they banned russia they were very specific about who they were banning and why it was we are banning russia and they named russia and we are banning them because of the incursion into Ukraine whereas this is a very different press release this is a press release that doesn't name israel does obviously doesn't name Palestine um it kind of just issues this kind blanket neutral war um that says you know if you are involved in geopolitically sensitive wars which i'm going to be interested to see how they you know continue to frame that as future wars probably take place probably led by europe um or at least heavily involved in um with european countries that if you are involved in a war or or start a war that is geopolitically sensitive then you cannot host it that's a very different level of of language um of directness of language compared to the russia-Ukraine um instance so they've really tried to kind of appease

51:33some of the the noise that has cost them quite a lot of money and cost them some viewers and kind of made them have to deal with some of the inherently political questions of Eurovision um but doing the absolute minimum and the reason that this is problematic is because we actually really have to put israel's participation in the Eurovision contest in context you know i said earlier you know why does israel participate in the Eurovision contest contest when it doesn't consider itself to be in european it considers itself to be indigenous to um the mid-least um the reason that it's very that the context of this makes the cowardice of Eurovision sharper is because in 2007 the israeli government set this set up this campaign called brand israel which was basically had this explicit aim of trying to improve the image of israel by establishing it as this kind of cosmopolitan progressive very westernized um country and it did that because israel had gotten

52:37a reputation because of what it has done of being a place of you know instability of being an unpopular place a place that does unpopular things people didn't think of it as like a tourist destination for example so we see this very heavy marketing of israel as as yes a tourist destination and specifically a queer friendly tourist destination which is something it does in opposition to the kind of homophobia of of the mid-least that we're always told about um we see you know the the women of the idea campaign which sort of shows you know sexy israeli women soldiers um you know ureng people into to come to israel and sort of to soften the image of the idea so when we say that Eurovision have to ban israel it's not just to punish them it's not just random punishment it's actually because the ongoing participation of israel in cut in in things like eurovision is part of israel strategy of getting away with occupation and genocide and war crimes and so to

53:42allow the charade to continue without explicitly naming it is eurovision allowing itself to continue to be used as a tool to whitewash war crimes to whitewash genocide participation eurovision is so has been central to brand israel um which is explicitly a distraction and a white washing of israeli war crimes and eurovision is tacitly continuing that to to be the case by not naming and banning israel and naming why israel should be banned from a contest like this Washington DC has just lost a true star in the satanic firm that is the Donald Trump administration caroline levit beloved by the president for her quote machine gun lips as anant she'll be stepping down from the role at the end of this month asia 27 when she got the job she was the first member of jen z to hold the position quickly proven that yes that generation can be evil too levit recently had a second child posted this on twitter the truth is since returning to the white house after

54:45the birth of my daughter i have felt in my heart that i cannot be the best mom my two young children deserve while devoting the constant time energy and attention required of the white house press and that is why i have ultimately made the bittersweet decision to depart the white house and embark on a new chapter in my life known for her bullying manner and impressive elasticity with the truth levit was beloved by trump's mega base as she used her podium to justify illegal war curbside street murders of american citizens by armed militias and global tariffs that threatened to sink the united state economy clips of her attacks on the american press regularly went viral as did her skillful dodges of questions related to jeffrey epstein what mattered most was that trump lost her declaring that no president ever but a better press secretary than carolina let's have a look at some of those hits you ever paid a tear because i have that's it don't get charged on foreign companies they get charged on the importers and ultimately when we have fair and balanced trade which the american people have not seen in decades as i said at the beginning revenues will stay here wages will go up and our country will be made wealthy again and i think

55:49think it's insulting that you're trying to test my knowledge of economics uh and the the decisions that this president has made i'm now regret giving a question to the associated press did the president ever spend hours at jeffrey epstein's house with evict don't uh these emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that president trump did nothing wrong why was uh rene good unfortunately and tragically killed are you asking me my opinion because a nice agent acted recklessly and killed oh okay so you're a biased reporter with a left-wing opinion what do you want me to do? yeah because you're a left-wing hack you're not a reporter you're posing in this room as a journalist and it's so clear by the premise of your question and you and the people in the media who have such biases but fake like you're a journalist you shouldn't even be sitting in that seat did the united states airstrike at girls elementary school and kill 175 people uh not that we know of shan and the the department of war is investigating this matter and i would just tell you very strongly the united states of america does not target civilians unlike the rogeranian regime with respect to the ongoing

56:54major combat operations in a ran operation epic fury is moving ahead successfully and according to plan besides wrangling with the traditional press levy also opened up the white house press pool reserving a seat in the briefing room for a series of new media journalists and influencers sounds like an innovation except all were handpicked for their maccabalting perspective and they moved the normally conservative Atlantic magazine described us straight from North career now if you're worried that this is a last you'll see if carolina and stay calm posting on truth social trump appeared to suggest she'd be back before long writing this carolina will now be one of my topus outside advisors and an influential voice within the republican party as we worked to defy history and conclusively win the mid-term elections carolina's been a real leader in the white house and her son of a nominal job fighting for justice liberty and freedoms since 2018 including our historic or election campaign of 2024 dahlia what did you make of the the career the life and times of carolina and levy do you think will find such an enigmatic press secretary again i always assume that her surname was pronounced

58:01leave it and so whenever i heard the word carolina and leave it my internal like worm brain would be like leave it she ain't worth it uh leave it because leave it leave it but actually no she is worth it um she is very much worth it to to trump not because she's some kind of sort of legendary comms operator by traditional standards she's worth it because she and the reason trump loved her is because she really understood the dance that trump plays with the media and she was really good at cornering the media into playing along or leaving them with kind of no other option other than than to play along because trump's sort of relationship with the press is not like his predecessors you know traditionally um presidents broadly try to keep the press on side um you know mainstream approval through the press is something that you caught the previous

59:02presidents have caught it um you know the whole job of a press secretary historically has been to get reporters to write favorable things about you um with trump it's the opposite with trump the media actually is there to look like an adversary um like the enemy because trump's contract you know the political contract is not to actually dismantle um elite powers that you know have made the lives of most people in the u.s. worse um but it's to look and feel like something that is dismantling that power it's to look and feel like a brick that people can throw into the sort of glass house of the establishment also are almost making sure that all those best and interests are allowed to kind of no corporate corruption is able to continue the fundamentally sort of the flow of capital is not really um disturbed so even though it kind of looks hostile and broken it's actually working quite

1:00:08well the hostility is sort of part of the performance of trumpism and it needs it's a performance that needs the media to kind of show up and and play its part that's why you know trump would never cancel those press free things um even though he constantly threatens to or he constantly threatens to ban journalists from it or ban media outlets from it he'll kind of ban them for a cup and then always bring them back in because they're actually really important um because those kind of staged fights um keep a signal like is how he keeps signaling you know I'm on your side um against them all whilst you know kind of welfare allowing corporate corruption to to run rampant dragging the US into more wars um doing things that are generally actually quite unpopular um so Caroline Levit not leave it well was really good at playing playing that role you know she was really good at generating these clips of herself you know um telling reporters off and and clapping

1:01:11back and and being rude and and seeming really bullish and unlike a purely kind of like emotional like libidinal level that felt really good to watch for a lot of people and it was really important to trump's emotional contract um with his with his voters and I guess it kind of always put those of us who have a kind of long standing sensible critique of the media in a really odd spot because obviously you know we don't trump's critique of the press it's not our critique our ours comes from wanting the media to actually interrogate um power and took for wanting a media industry that um is not incentivized to kind of pal around with the people that it's supposed to be holding to account whereas trump's approach was to not see the media as something that needs to be made more critical I mean presidents where he do want that um but to see the media is a kind of an instrument and one that he really uh knew how to play because what we forget about trump is that

1:02:12before he's a businessman before he's a politician he is first and foremost a celebrity um you know that's his kind of grift um and so it puts us in a difficult position because we find ourselves sort of defending you know these these press outlets that in most contexts we would be heavily critical of but it's because the argument is not the press shouldn't be allowed to ask questions or if the press asks questions it should just be responded to with this kind of theatre um our you know our argument was that the press should be more it should ask more questions and should not have its existence predicated on access which always includes a kind of quick pro quote um so that is what Karinine Levit was was really really good um good at doing it's why trump really loved her it's what the next one is probably going to do um but as for whether or not we're going to see more of her when people say i'm resigning from this because i want to spend more time from my family we rarely see them actually spend more time with their family more often than not it's to open a new chapter of

1:03:15their their career and i'm sure that levit will will go on to do what many um press secretaries in recent history have done which is go on to have sort of their own um career as a political commentator um a some a some kind it's an interesting point that you made about the kind of the choreographed dance between the media and trump to be able to raise his profile raise his celebrity what's interesting i think i can tell a politician who's done the similar kind of political strategy and it's Zach Polanski so i don't know if you've seen this but Zach Polanski does this very frequently you'll find negative articles about him from the medium or broadly will post it on social media to his followers and just go like this is what the media are saying about me they're not engaging in good faith the media are trying to smear me if you really want the politics if i would be enjoying the green party for example and it's a symbiotic relationship because the more that these articles have their profile raise i'm presuming at least to more hits for whatever website or whichever newspaper has published this particular article and the more that allows them to justify more

1:04:17articles smear in Zach Polanski and the more it gives Zach more ammunition to go to his followers and say look establishments media still doesn't like me very much and they keep posting it and people lap it up i think it's a really interesting dynamic then yeah and i think the difference between trump and polanski is that when trump feels like there's you know the particular outlet hasn't been fair to him he'll just kind of go on a rampage and just be like oh the failing New York times their ratings are low their sales are low they're just a bunch of losers and Zach Polanski will call them and loser as well but more often than not he'll pivot it towards this is actually the issue that you should be caring about and this is actually the solution that we have to that issue and it's actually able to to present an offering that actually makes sense whereas with trump it's just theatre you know it's it's you yes it's that same kind of using the weight of the press against you but in his case it is pure theatre to cover for the fact that his actual politics don't fulfill any of the material promises that he's made to his base whereas i would hope that you know if if

1:05:22polanski was was prime minister that would not be the case well exactly yeah like polanski is being attacked because he provides policies that are unhelpful to the establishment that they oppose like taxing the rich and more public investment more nationalization and dealing with the climate crisis whereas trump is promising basically very little he is hurt by the press because he undermines his own sense of self undermines his ego whereas polanski doesn't like the press because it's undermining a political respect to help the many not the few thank you very much for joining me tonight dahlia thanks for having me play now on today apocalypse Thursday indeed so indeed so i'm off to go and sit in front of a fan for the rest of today thank you everyone at home for watching as well come back for another novella live from six p.m. tomorrow but for now you've been watching of our media good night