What’s Really Behind Your Sleep Problems? Ask The Sleep Detective!

0:00Hey, before we dive into today's episode, I wanted to give a quick shout out to the partners who make the show possible, Toku Health and Tribe Vitamins. We've partnered with these brands because I use them myself, but it's important you know that I received compensation for this, and if you use the affiliate discount codes I'll be sharing later, I earn a commission which directly helps support this show. I'll have those exclusive codes and more details for you later in the episode, so stay tuned. Huge thanks to Toku and Tribe for supporting our community. O'Melatonin can help someone if they're deficient in melatonin and that's the only reason they're sleeping. But, you know, that's not the case for most people. Insomnia. In some form it is affected up to one third of Americans and some statistics say even more. When you start taking a hormone like that then the body can stop making it over time. Today's guest is a sleep consultant who uses functional testing to find hidden triggers

1:01keeping you awake all night. Lowe melatonin can be really a sign that the gut isn't healthy because 90% of melatonins made in the gut. She is the sleep detective Martha Lewis. A lot of my clients who are struggling with sleep, at least a third of them are dealing with... Martha, it's so great to see you again. Thanks for having me again, Mike. It's great to be here. This is a big issue. This is something that comes up a lot. This is probably of all the doctors I know personally. This is like the biggest complaint of patients coming into their offices is they can't sleep at night. There's a variety of reasons that I think this happens, but it just seems to be an increasing problem. So I'm glad you're here so we can talk about this and this is your area of expertise. I know you do a podcast on this. So the first thing people do when they can't sleep is they pop a melatonin. I have melatonin. Everybody has it in their medicine cabinet. You've argued that this actually might be making the problem worse in the long run.

2:05I have a feeling that I know why you're saying that, but please explain it for our viewers and listeners. Why is the supplement first approach kind of failing so many people right now? Yeah, such a great question. I mean, I think it's firstly is that maybe some people are deficient in melatonin, but that's usually not the reason why someone isn't sleeping. And it's definitely not the only reason someone isn't sleeping. And so just trying something that the body doesn't need is what I call guessing instead of actually testing and knowing what's going on. So melatonin can help someone if they're deficient in melatonin and that's the only reason they are sleeping. But that's not the case for most people. And when you start taking a hormone like that, then the body can stop making it over time. And also low melatonin can be really a sign that the gut isn't healthy because 90% of

3:09melatonins made in the gut. So it's just kind of a band day that's not addressing what's really wrong. Right. So you tell me this, I want to dive into some physiology here because I love doing these deep dives, but it's secreted from the pineal gland. Do I have that right? Yes. Yeah. So I read some studies some years ago that were pretty compelling on the surface, but you know, I'm not a doctor. I can't say whether this is right or not, but I read that as we age, there can be some calcification around the pineal gland, which will then inhibit the proper secretion that maybe we were experiencing in our 20s and 30s or even as kids. Is there any truth to that? Yes, I think so. I mean, a lot of things, you know, don't work as well on the body as we get older. So it is shown that older people make less melatonin, but I don't think that's inevitable if we can do things to keep our body healthy and in balance as much as possible.

4:13Okay. So there's a specific type of exhaustion where your body is just spent, but your brain's racing. It's 2 a.m. It's that whole wired, but tired thing, which I'm probably certain that that's like 90% of people who probably come to see you. Is that like, is that a stress problem or is it a sign that your liver or your gut is struggling to process toxins while you're trying to rest? I would say yes to all of those. I mean, technically, you know, when we think of stress, we think of mental stress. So that can be a piece of it for some people, but I think it's more of those stressors that you just mentioned that calls a body to release cortisol in the middle of the night. And you know, when the body releases cortisol, that's going to wake us up and make our mind race, increase our heart rate and body temperature, you know, our body should not be releasing cortisol in the middle of the night. So that can happen when the gut isn't healthy, when there's inflammation in the gut, when

5:17there are pathogens like a parasite or bacterial overgrowth in the gut, when the liver isn't detoxing properly. So technically, all of those things are also stressed, but they are, you know, they're physiological stress, not that mental stress. And so I see this in the test result of a lot of my clients is that cortisol is super high in the middle of the night. And that's what's waking them up. Are you running certain tests to nail that down? Like are you finding the presence of parasites and people's GI tract? Like what are you uncovering when you search for this stuff? Yes. So first of all, I do a hormone test that's looking at cortisol pattern. So we can see what's happening, you know, throughout the day and in the night. Because a blood test just taken first thing in the morning is going to say, is this normal or not normal, but it's not showing, is it higher later? You know, for me, mine was through the roof in the middle of the night, but it wasn't technically normal in the morning, but that pattern isn't normal.

6:19And then I do a gut test as well, so showing what's living in the gut and overall health of the gut. So kind of putting all those pieces together. There's some literature out there that I've seen where vitamin D synthesis and melatonin share the same pathways. And I'm pivoting back to the melatonin piece for a minute because you mentioned cortisol. And you correct me if I'm wrong on this because you're probably going to know more than I will on this. But I noticed that when, for me, this is just sort of anecdotal, but it was interesting and I've confirmed it several times. I've noticed that when my D levels get very, very high or some people would say optimal, my vitamin D levels, I'm talking like, 80 and up, my sleep completely deteriorates. And for the life of me, I could not figure that out. I've asked different doctors that. I got a lot of head scratches and puzzled looks. So I did a deep dive.

7:21And so I read that that's a shared pathway. So in some sensitive people, you're actually going to block melatonin, I don't know if it's synthesis or release when your D levels are too high. They're competing pathways in the body. And so when I let my D levels fall more to like a 50, and I've watched this like a hawk with my own blood work for years, I'm a lot better and I sleep a lot better. But once those D levels get too high, it seems to be a problem. And I've demonstrated this time and time again, like for years. So it's almost like I know when my D's too high, I know what's going on just in the way I sleep. And it's sleep onset and it's staying asleep. Have you ever discovered that? Is there a vitamin D piece that elevates cortisol and melatonin lowers? Have you ever seen that? I haven't actually. I think most people I'm working with are more deficient in vitamin D.

8:21I've never heard of too much actually. Really? So yeah, so that's really interesting. Okay, that's interesting. Geez, I'm like to get me pick here. I can't beat the only one that's experienced this. And so I'll share something with you, Martha. I actually went down a bit of a rabbit hole on the ancestral medicine route. So my ancestors are from Eastern Europe, more northern latitude. So there was less year round sunlight, colder temperatures, your body's covered because it was winter time, nowhere near the equator. And so I was just trying to piece things together. So is there a genetic piece to that, to the melatonin, to the vitamin D, where my ancestors probably had a lot less than people who lived around the equator? And so is that a genetic variation? Is that a genetic thing where maybe I don't need as much vitamin D and too much messes up my body's physiology? These are the things I do, Martha.

9:21I go down these rabbit holes and I don't know if they make sense, but I do think that there's an ancestral piece to our wellness that we all need to look at. What did our ancestors do? From what part of the world did our ancestors come from? And how does that melatonin sunlight piece fit in? So just some food for thought. We don't have to go too deep on that. But I was just fascinated by that and thought I'd share it with you. Yeah, I definitely think that makes sense. And I think knowing what, yeah, knowing our ancestral heritage is important because it connects with what we need in this day and age as well. We don't adapt that quickly so that... Right. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And now I live closer to the equator. So my body for years is probably like, hey, where are we? Like what is this? This is not what I'm accustomed to. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to move back to where it was cold. But I'm just noticing that my body is in a different place than it has been for the first

10:21many years of my life, the first half of my life, essentially. So I just find that kind of interesting. But I want to pivot. I know there are some other areas that I want to go with our conversation because you're examining so much in the broader picture when it comes to sleep and why sleep is a problem for so many people. And I know there's an environmental connection and we recently spoke with Ryan Blazer, who's from Test My Home. He talks a lot about toxic homes. He talks about mold, EMFs, off-gassing from different things like synthetic products we have in our homes, polyesters, things like that. Do you often find that a client's insomnia isn't just caused by their thoughts or maybe even their physiology, but by their surroundings. So like the molds, the EMFs, the different things and the products in the home that might be creating a constant toxic exposure.

11:23Definitely. And that's something I've started learning about mold toxicity a few years ago because I was having some clients who weren't necessarily getting better with the initial test I was running, so I learned about looking for those symptoms. And sleep issues aren't necessarily top of the list for a lot of these, but I find them highly correlated with a lot of my clients who are struggling with sleep and that at least a third of them are dealing with mold exposure. And so now one of the tests I'm running is called the toxin zoomer that's looking at all these different toxins. So mycotoxins, which are from mold, environmental chemicals, which can be from that off-gassing and things, and definitely EMFs is something that I work with a lot of my clients on just in general. I think it's a good practice to be exposed to those as much as we can living in this world. Definitely a light that can make a big difference.

12:23So I think that's a big piece of the puzzle in that our body stores these toxins and if it's not to tox find well, and whether that's partly genetic with methylation or just like this overburden of too many toxins, then they stay in our body. They cause a lot of inflammation. And so yeah, so my clients have a lot of toxins listed. So kind of higher the toxic burden, it makes sense that that is part of the issue for them. Tell me a little bit more about that zoomer test. What is that? Is that like a full panel of toxic exposures? Is it mold only? Like what's involved in that? Yeah, so it's a urine test and so it's showing what your body is excreting in the urine. So it's looking at mycotoxins, environmental chemicals, and heavy metals, and PFAs, which are kind of those forever chemicals. So yeah, it's looking for does, I mean, at least 100.

13:26It probably close to 200 of those different kinds of toxins. Two people always come back with a full listing of toxins or carrying around. How toxic are people that you are checking? There's definitely a spectrum. Now there's a limitation to the test like every test is that it's only showing what your body is able to get rid of. So if actually if someone came back with almost no toxins, then that means to me they actually aren't even able to get rid of any of them. So sometimes as we stir things up and then if we retest the end, more might show up and they were there all along, it's just the body wasn't able to get rid of them. So anyway, I always tell my clients like no one's going to have a perfectly clean test, toxin test. Unless someone's really been focusing on supporting their body and getting rid of those toxins, but we're just exposed to so many things in this day and age that we're not going to come back totally clean.

14:27But I do see some people with dozens and some people with maybe one dozen and there's a big difference there and how many symptoms they have and how long it's going to take them to get better. I've definitely seen that correlation of the more toxin someone has, the longer it could take to help their bodies be able to get rid of those. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by Toku Health. Full disclosure, I get a 20% commission if you buy through my link, which helps me keep the show running. I'm a user of their flow supplement because I believe in being proactive about hard health. Toku flow is a plant-based chocolate drink mix that supports healthy blood vessels and circulation. It's powered by natto kinase and vitamin K2, providing a clean, effective way to maintain your vascular system. It's soy free, vegan friendly and taste absolutely delicious. I mix mine right into a glass of water and I love it. Go to TokuHealth.com and use my code Mike C to get a discount on your first order.

15:30That's code Mike C, M-I-K-E-S-E-A at checkout. And that website is TokuHealth.com, T-O-K-U-H-E-L-T-H.com. And just as a legal reminder, these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Let's get back to the show. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body, with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Not to healthcare professional if symptoms persist. You said something interesting there that if they come back totally clean, something's wrong. They're not dumping toxins. That sounds rather alarming. So dive into that a little bit.

16:32What's happening there? Is there liver just hanging on to all this stuff? Is their body not able to excrete? And why would that be happening? Because if it's too overburdened, really, like if the detox pathway, so the liver, the kidneys, everything, yeah, if there's more than it can handle, then they can, and you know, and the body isn't have the nutrients it needs for all those processes to work as well, then they might not be able to get rid of any at all. And so usually people like that, though, are pretty sick. They have a lot of different symptoms. So it's not just sleep, it's also, you know, they feel awful. Yeah, they have weird aches and pains. There's usually a lot more going on than that. So it's, you know, if someone perfectly healthy had nothing to up, then that would be a different story. Yeah. So you usually see it when you meet somebody like that, there's some telltale signs just like looking at them.

17:34Looking at them and knowing their symptoms and their history. I mean, I will say I've never seen nothing show up, but you know, I do have a woman I'm working with now who's young. She's in her mid 30s and she only had a few things show up, which is unusual. And she's so reactive to everything, like every supplement we try and that she's tried over the past few years. And so I think for her, her body isn't detoxing much at all. And that's why nothing showed up. Wow. So how do you kickstart that detox process? Like what are the first things you look at? I know you mentioned methylation a little bit earlier in the conversation. And I don't know if that's, that's a piece. But like what, what's the first step to get those detox pathways moving? Yeah. I mean, it does depend on the person like, you know, this client again, she's not tolerating much. So I'm not, you know, we're going to do very gentle things to start off. So, you know, someone more resilient doesn't necessarily need that.

18:35So it's some mix of, okay, how can we support the body and getting rid of those toxins? So I mean, first of all, like making sure someone is peeing, pooping and sweating regularly. Yeah. So that's, you know, that's just a basic thing. But sometimes people are constipated or they aren't drinking enough water or they don't ever sweat. And so, you know, just having people start to do those things very slowly and gradually is, you know, is where I would start. Doing things to support detox like gentle things again are going to be like cast or oil packs that you put on the liver, drinking warm water with, with lemon fresh squeeze lemon juice to stimulate bio production, taking epsom solvase, like those things tend to be pretty gentle. And then I usually recommend what's called a binder that binds to the toxins, pulls them safely out of the body. And then usually some kind of liver supportive nutrients, depending on the client though and where they are.

19:35Some people can't tolerate that right away. Some people are fine with that right away. So it's, you know, it definitely differs for each person as to, as to where he started and what I recommend. But it's usually a combination of those things in the beginning. What are you, what are some of your favorite binders? I know clay, bentonite clay is a, is a big one. Is it bentonite clay? There's so many different types of clay or charcoal activated charcoals. Another one, what are some of the ones that you favor in your work? So I'll use, I often use one called GID talks. That is what I call a broad spectrum binder. So it has bentonite clay and activated charcoal and zeolite and a couple other things. And the benefit of that is that, you know, certain binders are, are target kind of certain toxins. And so when we use one that combines them all, then it's going to target all, you know, all the different toxins. So that's one that I tend to recommend. It's kind of inconvenient though because you have to take it away from food and other

20:39supplements because it can also bind a nutrients. So I also use cell chlorobinders a lot, but there's are more targeted. So they have a biotoxin binder specifically for gut and mold toxins. Then they have an HMET, it's called for heavy metals, environmental toxins. But then you're kind of combining, you know, both of those a lot of times because most people are having multiple different kinds of toxins as well. But the benefit of those is it's kind of this advanced technology where you can take them any time. They don't bind to nutrients. They don't from foods. You can take them with food without food any time. So I, you know, I tend to give my clients a choice of, yeah, do you want this convenience or, yeah, or do you want to just take one instead of two or, you know, so it's like, it's always a conversation. But those are my favorites that I tend to use. Are a lot of sleep issues tied directly to the gut? I know you talk about that a lot on your social media.

21:42I've watched a lot of your videos and I find that a very compelling argument. Is it oftentimes like when you break things down, is it a gut issue? I mean, I always say none of my clients have a totally healthy gut, but I think anyone with any kind of health issues, the gut isn't totally healthy. For some people, it's 90% of the problem. For others, it's only 10%. But yeah, there's definitely always something going on there. And whether, you know, not everyone has a pathogen, which could be a parasite or kind of the bad bacteria or fungus like Candida. But that is common. Like I say, I see that and probably have my clients of some sort of pathogen going on there. And those pathogens are active in the middle of the night. They are releasing a lot of toxins. And so, you know, we get toxins from our environment, but they can also be produced internally.

22:45And so then those toxins are circulating around causing inflammation. The body releases cortisol. It's going to wake you up. So it is a common piece of the puzzle for a lot of my clients is some sort of pathogen and the gut going on. Do you search inflammatory markers? Do you run like a CRP test or is there, do you do any tests for inflammation? I don't write off the bat with a lot of my clients. I don't usually use blood work right off the bat. Sometimes, you know, I recommend it further on. But yeah, a lot of times we see what's causing the inflammation, you know, from these tests. If we know there are a lot of toxins, gut pathogens, you know, and there's more to gut health than just the pathogens too, but how well someone's digesting food and how strong the immune system is in the gut and, you know, lots of different things there. But yeah, and there are markers for inflammation in the gut on that test as well.

23:46What are those called? I'm curious. I know like the, I'm only familiar with the ones I named. They're very non-specific. Because I have a history of cardiovascular issues, thank God, I'm a lot better these days, but I was really sick for a long time. So I would often check HSCRP, which is like a heart sensitive inflammatory marker, which can help predict stroke and heart attack risk, cardiovascular events. But what specific markers do you look at in the testing that you do? There's something called cow protectant that is a measure of inflammation in the gut. So that's the main one there. Do you find that one elevated a lot? Not all the time. And actually in the gut, sooner than I'm using now, there are like six different markers. There's a lysosome one. Yeah, there are definitely a few that are looking at gut inflammation overall. Yeah. So I love how deep in the weeds you go, Martha.

24:47I think that's wild. I love that. You're like, yeah, we only have, we have six inflammatory markers we look at. Like, that's a lot. That's cool. I love that. I mean, it's, you want, you want comprehensive testing if you have a stubborn health issue, like not sleeping, like not sleeping sucks. So, so if you can like tackle it from so many different angles the way you're doing, I just think that's so effective. That's beneficial. People are lucky to have people like you to be able to try to pinpoint these things. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, yeah, I do think it's, it's a matter of looking at the big picture and everything that can be going on because there are multiple causes of not sleeping. And if we miss anything, then it's really hard to get better. So yeah. 100%. 100%. I wanted to shift to the psychological piece because I think there is a psychological component to some people's insomnia. It's that mind that's always going. And in particular, you know, type A personalities, right?

25:48They're told that their drive is their gift. But is that same drive actually like overclocking the miles on their nervous systems to the point where they just don't know how to shut that off? Do you think there is a psychological component in a lot of people? And if it's like, have you seen that in your work? Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, I think we have our gifts in various ways, but when they're taken to the extreme, they're not a gift. And you know, it's like abusing the gift, I guess. So yes, there are strengths to type A personality, but I mean, you know, we as humans are not meant to just go, go, go all day long. Right. You know, but it's how it is in this modern world and that a lot of people are doing that. So yeah, so if someone is, you know, I always say like jumping out of bed in the morning, they're getting the kids ready for school. They're going to work like, you know, let's go, go, go. They have a stressful job. They get home. There's all these things to do.

26:48It's like, you can't just do that all day and then go to bed and expect to sleep well. Like there has to be some time. It only has to be five minutes here and there, but to let the nervous system calm down, get out of that fight or flight. So yeah. And so I think to the psychological becomes still physiological in this example and that they, you know, they're just go, go, go. And right. And it ends up elevating cortisol levels. It's not. And they get stressed and then the body responds to that stress and then they're calling you. Yeah. And something that our bodies can deal with when we're younger, like, you know, I know I abused my body in the 20, in my 20s and, you know, it was totally fine. Slept great. But I think as we get older, things start shutting down when we're constantly under stress. So yeah. Yeah. Um, so you're known as a detective because you look at functional labs. We've talked a lot about that even today.

27:52What's the number one biological trigger that you see? Is it a parasite? Is it a mineral deficiency or hormone issues or is it a balance of all of them? But what are you seeing consistently in people that just can't find a simple fix for their insomnia? I mean, it's always, I always describe it as a puzzle of like, you know, it's different puzzle pieces. Yeah. And the puzzle pieces are slightly different for everyone. I mean, in the simplest terms, I do think it was down to stress and cortisol. Like most people who aren't sleeping well have a cortisol dysfunction. But then it's all the other imbalances we've talked about that are causing that. So just knowing as cortisol, I mean, sure, you can take a supplement to lower cortisol, but that's not getting to the root of why cortisol is elevated. So is it that they're go, go, go? Is it that their liver isn't detoxing properly? Is it that there's inflammation in the gut?

28:54There are these toxins. So it all plays a role. And then cortisol affects six hormones over time and those get out of balance and affects gut health effects neurotransmitter. So it's like, yeah, there are lots of different pieces of the puzzle. Usually it does with cortisol. Yeah. It's, you know, Martha, just from my own experience because I had some seriously long like bouts of insomnia at different stages in my life. And I think for me, it almost became a snowball effect. So it's like a little bit of stress, then this happens, then that happens, and then you start obsessing about your sleep, right? And then you start, like for me, for me, it got so bad that I was dreading the nighttime. I was like, I'd be watching the clock like, oh, six, seven. It's going to be another night. And it, this went on for months. And it was like, it was, there was like, it was traumatizing, you know, it was, it became

29:58like a dread, like a daily dread nighttime. Oh, great. Here we go. And I'd be up half the night or more, you know, I'd be lying, looking at the ceiling till 4 a.m. That's something that just kind of builds up and it just creates this perfect storm. And I know that sleep trackers are like a big thing right now. Everybody's wearing a ring or a watch that scores their sleep. People are always sharing their numbers with me. So I hear about this a lot. And I do think they're helpful for like a sleep study. I've had one of those done and I learned some fascinating things about my own personal rem cycles and stuff like that. So I think there's a place for that. But do you think, do you think we're building too much obsession over our sleep scores now? And we're almost creating this like new level of anxiety about just tracking our sleep. Yeah. I think we've gone too far with some of this stuff. I think it depends on the person. I mean, I don't recommend that most of my clients track their sleep.

30:59Really? Yeah. It's very like that's a very contrarian view of a sleep specialist. Right. Right. I mean, and the reason is because someone who already isn't sleeping well, like that tracking is just going to make them more anxious and worried and obsessed about it. Usually, it does depend on the person like everything, but you know, that's what I found. And you know, it's also important to know these trackers are not 100% accurate. They're not even like maybe some of them are 66% accurate, you know, for that. That whoa. Really? Especially for the sleep stages. Yeah. There was a recent study that came out that was comparing Fitbit and Apple Watch and I wear a wop and the orro ring to an actual, you know, EKG that you use in a sleep study. And they get the sleep stages wrong. But I do think the trends overall are accurate. So, you know, I do have a client right now who tracks your sleep with the orro ring and

32:00she still wants to do that. And so it's it is if someone can use it just as data and for curiosity and they can see how the changes they're making are improving their sleep. Then I think that that can be valuable. But I think it's most important how we feel. And so, you know, I just don't want someone to wake up and say, Oh, I thought I got seven hours. I feel like six and a half, I feel horrible when they find before. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I didn't realize how much of a ratio of inaccuracies that those contained. And the one thing that makes me nervous about those using them long term is their Bluetooth. Right? Like they're wireless. Basically like fastening wireless EMF radiation to your body for like seven hours. That can't be good long term. No, it's definitely low because that's one of my concerns.

33:02And when I first tried to use the WOOP, I couldn't even use it. But I think it was psychological because I was worried about EMFs. But I still turn my phone on airplane mode. And so technically this isn't connected until I wake up in the morning and then it sinks and, you know, and does that. So I'm not as concerned about it. I think it's very low, whatever there is. But I do think, you know, again, someone who's pretty sick, who's struggling with mold, toxicity and lots of other toxins, yeah, adding EMF, it's not going to help. So that's the reason to not do it. So Martha, how can people get in touch with you? Tell us how they can find you, plug your podcast. How can people get more familiar with you and your work? Yeah, so my podcast is the Sleep Detective podcast. I'm online, the sleepdetective.com, Instagram, Martha Lewis, Sleep Detective. So if you search for Sleep Detective, hopefully you find me. Okay, we'll make sure to put that in the show notes.

34:03Sleep Detective, the Sleep Detective, Martha Lewis. Thanks for joining us. It was great talking to you again. Yes, thank you so much for having me. Remember, sleep is not a luxury. It's a foundation for your entire health stack. So if you're tired of being tired and you need answers, hop on over to the sleepdetective.com and check out Martha's work. And always check out what we're up to and our past catalog of episodes of our podcast at myxypodcast.com. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, bye, everybody. If you live with depression or bipolar disorder, I want you to hear this. You're not weak and you're not alone. I'm essence and I was once diagnosed with bipolar disorder through faith, intentional inner work and a complete lifestyle shift. My life transformed in ways I never thought possible.

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