"Two ways: Gradually, then suddenly"

0:00United Health Group is simplifying health care by investing in tools to help patients know more and pay less. These tools help patients find providers and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more at unitedhealthgroup.com slash commitment. CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? With a self-injection for chronic inflammatory demyelinating poly neuropathy, you have the option to treat it home. Discover more at cidpselfinjection.com and talk to your doctor that cidpselfinjection.com brought to you by our Genics. This is too crazy man and especially when it's the administration that that really ran on and promised that we want to get out of this out of this game of fighting stupid wars in the Middle East. That was what we were all supporting. That was the one thing that he

1:03was saying that was so promising to so many people that were independent that were on the fence. Like this guy who wants no wars. All right. He wants closing the border which I think is a great idea. He wants no wars that enough. Let's go. Hi again everybody it's 5 o'clock here in New York. I'm Lissi Manendez in today for Nicole Wallace. When students of history generations down the line wonder aloud how exactly did the formidable MAGA movement diminish the answer to borrow a Hemingway line might be quote two ways gradually and suddenly because right now the American people are bearing witness to what could be a monumental breakup a very public one of what was until very recently a seemingly unshakable political coalition. Again it has been gradual. That wasn't the first time Joe Rogan criticized Donald Trump for what's become a rank betrayal of core campaign principles. But especially in the last week or so Rogan and other conservative media figures. Likewise responsible non-zero contributions to Trump's victory in 2024 appear to be maybe

2:08turning the page. And it reflects a broader reality inside the Republican Party that many of Trump's voters just don't like what they see on Epstein on the economy and particularly on Iran. The Washington Post latest reporting from inside the halls of the annual CPAC conference adds context quote Trump and his handling of the war remained popular among most voters who identify as MAGA supporters pull show. At the same time some prominent conservatives who have long been seen as speaking for the Trump base have voiced fierce opposition to the war. That includes well-known MAGA commentators including Tucker Carlson making Kelly and Marjorie Taylor Greene also popular podcasters like Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughan who've been credited with helping Trump win younger less politically active voters. That also includes conservative personality Sean Ryan. Sat down with Joe Kent the Trump official resigned in protest of the war last week. And their conversation Ryan commended Kent for his quote courage then this I haven't been happy about

3:11really much of anything that's been going on I feel like it's been a 180 bait and switch from what we're told and just about every aspect. And I've been wondering because I know there's people frustrated up there and I've been wondering what what are you still doing in the position if you're not doing the job that you were supposed to do. Why are you still there? Is it power? Because it's not power they might think it's power but if you do not able to do the job that you're there to do then your power less right that's the conclusion that I came to. Now in truth it is simply too soon to stick a fork and would have still a potent political coalition. When those students of history and however many years wonder whatever happened to MAGA you can be sure that this week it will be a part of the answer. Not as where we start this hour with president of media matters for America Angela Corsone also with us Democratic Polster and political analysts Cornell Belcher and back with us the host of the Bullwork podcast political

4:14analyst Tim Miller you know you always remind me Angela of a few things one that these major marquee events where we see disagreement often that disagreement that public disagreement is by design that the folks that I've referenced are like the most mainstream I guess of the media figures who are out there you listen to a lot more conservative radio a lot more of these podcasts a lot more of these TV shows than anyone else I know your sense of where they are all headed. They're headed in a place that is similar to what you're hearing there except for the core parts of what we we're having this conversation 10 years ago we would call them the right wing media Fox News talk radio there they are the what is left of the MAGA coalition that that center right they're going to be fully with Trump no matter what and even when they split with Trump so the second edge like Megan Kelly for example she's very critical of what Trump's doing there's a segment

5:16right outside that band that's saying this is bad but somebody tricked him yeah what he's doing is bad we now need to figure out who did this to him but then the larger MAGA coalition that we all think about the thing that gave Trump so much power you know that he built in the last presidential election you know all these broadcasts all these culture figures the thing that we when we think about MAGA they're splintering off now as you're hearing they're not necessarily going to be pro Democrat I think sometimes people will think well they're they're anti Trump so that means they're pro the opposite of that that's not true but the significance is that they're no longer propelling the narrative that he's telling that's the first they're no longer reinforcing the inertia and the the the fear of rejecting or telling a counter story or challenging Trump because you would just be so totally overwhelmed and then those cracks create vulnerabilities and weaknesses almost like amongst their audience is whether up for grabs you can actually move them in one direction or another they're not static they're not always going to be with Trump no matter what

6:18and that is beginning to really those cracks that have been there for a while it started with the Epstein stuff last year we can't discount the arc here as you noted slowly and then all at once those cracks are now full blown fractures and their casters they're no longer going to sort of go back and they will now continue to drift further and further away and that's the real significance of it to Miller to that point I want you to take a listen this is Joe Rogan talking about the MAGA coalition I'm not attached to the the you know the phrase make America great again I don't care then find that phrase sucks here's the thing like first of all America is great make America greater on down but make America great again and then it becomes a movement of a bunch of dorks because a lot of them are dorks a lot of them these really weird uninteresting unintelligent people that have got something they cling to and there's a lot of people that are just real genuine patriots and they're all lumped into this one group and you got to accept the dorks to that like the concept

7:22of making America great is a great idea but as soon as you have a team and you allow anybody to join up you you don't even have tryouts for your team yeah so you've got a bunch of that are running around spouting out opinions and you have to go along with them because they're MAGA okay I just want to say Tim Miller I'm not sure any he didn't name names in that particular clip I it shouldn't have taken anyone who was listening or paying attention this long to realize that let's just say Steven Miller is a huge dork and that his ideas are so radically out of line with where most Americans are and that he is not actually interested in making America great in any forward-looking vision but still welcome glad you are here welcome to the party I'm curious what you think this says but like also what is motivating this folks because I think we have to be honest about the fact that they have brands too and that they recognize that the brand proximity to Trump no longer has the prestige that it once did yeah I think it's going to be tempting for about a year

8:29now or maybe longer to just do how don't you see this before we were so right we tried to tell you inside and we can allow ourselves like five minutes of that a week so then you can move on to something more productive because I hear you on all that at least you're right they were always dorks like what I if you go on to a I've been to CPACs okay it's nothing new or it's not the cool kids table so look I think that the the the significance of the Joe Rogan thing to me is twofold one moving from being critical of Trump and doing kind of what Angela is talking about Megan Kelly doing kind of saying that he's being misurved or something must be wrong there must be something else happening in Washington doing the conspiracy talk that's what's a baby step away from Trump starting to become trying to mock him starting to mock his movement mocking the name of his movement that is different you know that is somebody that as you said is trying to separate himself brand wise from Trump and it's someone that's trying to stay faced with his audience because he sees that it's going very badly and he doesn't want to be made to look like a fool and and that's

9:33extremely potent you know once you move away from disagreeing or criticizing or trying to do a 40 chess rationalization for why it's happening into mocking and contempt you know I think that is going to resonate with the audience and and I think the way you see from these guys is them moving to I think as Angela said again like not to the Democrats but back to where they had been all these guys were non-voters all these guys were not engaged in the process and I think that is that's the first step and I was watching have one of the bar stool podcasts with a couple of these guys it's a smaller show than any of these but I thought this was telling it's the two of them were talking to each other is two guys and they're like you know he's doing terrible like you can't say it because then the MSNOW people will start to come for you and and tell and rub in your face and he's like and then you know you you lose the fact that the other side is still unacceptable to me and and like I think that is like where they are in the process right now like accepting the

10:38fact that Trump has betrayed them accepting the fact that he is a disaster and trying to maybe do the first step which is maybe I'm not involved in politics at all I'm checking out of politics which you know is better on balance and voting for Maga. Cornelbelcher I've been gifted five minutes a month of saying I told you so by Tim Miller I think I've used up about 30 seconds of it look forward to the next four minutes and 30 seconds while March remains. One of the things I thought was interesting this was the AP reporting from CPAC I'm not going to read it to you but I'm going to describe it to you which is essentially younger conservatives are disappointed and they feel betrayed specifically about the action in Iran and there is a generational split and like of course there's a generational split Cornel because we know who is sent to these wars we know who understands the price that will be paid because it is their peers that will pay the price and it is they financially who will be left holding the bag for whichever forever war this president chooses to

11:41entangle himself in I wonder when you're doing pulling and focus group right now if you just if you see this bubbling up. I do right but before I get into that I want to say you know put me on that to miss me on that mess bus with all these people saying that you know this is not what we voted for this is exactly what you voted for and so many of us told you this is what you voted for and not as Democrats by the way some Republicans you know namely the Chinese were saying this is exactly what you voted for but but that aside that told you so a moment aside for me look I think you do see this unfolding and I think the most common place you see it unfolding is look at the last elections that we've had over the last year from from the off your elections last year into what we have right now where Democrats are over performing you know by double digits sometimes you know 20 points overwhelming what what they had typically had done and where you seeing Democrats flip seats in solidly read places especially in state led right and Mara Lago where

12:48his home is right now is now represented by by a Democrat and look it is it beyond just the activists when you look out at the at the broader coalition you know the biggest parts of his coalition were were rule voters and non-college white voters rule voters voted for him by 64 percent non-college white voters 66 percent look at where they are right now in the poll in the Maris poll I think it was just out recently you know there is his his he's above a water by just a couple of points among among among non-college voters and and within five or six points within rule voters that is that is real signs of erosion of sort of his solid sort of supporters and by the way the supporters that congressional Republicans are desperately need to energize and move to the polls in order to avoid it a a midterm disaster one last thing that's problematical and that is you also have polling it shows that Democrats are opening up a 14-point enthusiasm gap over

13:53Republicans I do agree that a lot of these these these young and most variety voters who who came out for him and voted for him and now are disappointed that's part of their midterm problem is that how do they get those those those most sporadic voters turned out and what you're seeing is that from election to election after election that we've seen thus far we don't see them showing out and showing up enthusiastically it is interesting to me I watched Angelo initially when Tim was talking about how a lot of these voters are not frequent voters they are a typical voters you sort of lit up because that is really who it is that we are talking about here and I wonder if you have a sense of who they are still listening to and if there is anything this administration is offering that continues to resonate with them I think that's the part that's significant about this that kind of gets lost is so complicated confusing but the simple thing is it's not like the past there is no singular center of gravity there's no wash limbaugh like figure you know or fox

14:58and friends kind of equivalent now if when they're not listening to Joe Rogan there's plenty of their time listening to other podcasts or they're watching live streams right they're watching things about looks masculine I know that's very fashionable these days to talk about but there's all kinds of kick streams about that they're watching video game streams and that's the part where matters because the the people that we're talking about in this conversation that Joe Rogan they're like a weathervane for what else is happening in that larger not political first space and so when those people are not getting Joe Rogan sort of ripping on maga they're there other programs whether it be a video game streamer or somebody's talking about peptides or whatever that is they're also complaining about the administration's vibes or even very specific things like the war right so they're actually getting it reinforced in the other places that they're listening to which in some ways is more power more powerful than a singular figure repeating the same thing over and over again and that to me is the part that's significant they're not boosting other parties other other positions other people necessarily but they are completely

16:03right now eroding and obliterating the the connective tissue that held together all of these low propensity not political voters the people on the that were on the fringes that Trump brought in and built power with that connective tissue that held them all together the other nine hours of programming that they're listening to and podcasts and streams they're all doing some version of what we're talking about with these weathervanes today and that's why it's significant as you notice as you said at the beginning slowly and then all at once that to me is the real difference maker now than say a year ago it hadn't really breached through to those other spaces they were still very much isolated from the larger chaos and mess that Trump has affected and that's just not with playing out right now in those spaces you know because they actually have to go to the gas pump and fill up their tanker and Angela Carson Cornell Boucher Tim Miller thank you all so much for being with us when we return organizers expect millions of Americans to turn out for tomorrow's note King's protest nationwide as a disapproval for Donald Trump and the anger over his policies

17:05continues to grow now protesters have another reason to take part as Donald Trump once again is putting his name where it does not belong also ahead for us a group of Jeffrey Epstein survivors are now suing the Trump Justice Department and Google over the disclosure of their personal information which in many cases is still available online we're going to hear from one survivor later in the hour but before we go to break some breaking news golf legend Tiger Woods has been arrested they're being involved in a car crash near his Florida home it is his third crash in 20 years Tiger was not injured and was alone in the car the driver of the truck that was involved in the incident was also not injured official say he has been arrested for driving under the influence with property damage and refusal to submit to a lawful test deadline what house continues after a quick break stay with us united health group is simplifying health care by investing in tools to help patients no more and pay less these tools help patients find providers

18:08and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually learn more at united health group.com slash commitment if you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success then ixl is a right for your family as an effective and affordable online learning program ixl covers math language arts science and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-K to 12th grade listeners can get an exclusive 20 percent off ixl membership when they sign up today at ixl.com slash 20 visit ixl.com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price at verbo we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support so we plan for the plot twists every booking is automatically backed by our verbo care guarantee giving you confidence from the very start whenever you need help it's ready before your stay through the moments in between and after your trip because a great trip starts with peace of mind

19:08and maybe a good playlist but we've got the peace of mind part covered as the anger and frustration with Donald Trump's presidency continues to grow organizers are expecting millions of americans to take to the streets tomorrow for no kings protests all across this country and what they say will be the largest march yet of trump 2.0 organizers are expecting more than nine million people across all 50 states to participate minnesota which is still really after two us citizens were shot and killed by trump's ice agents during operation metro surge will be the flagship protest site with bruce springsteen set to perform his protest song streets of Minneapolis meanwhile Donald trump as if to prove their point that he is a wannabe king is set to add his signature to the dollar making it the first time since the dollar began being printed that the signature of a president appears on the currency joining me now is Rebecca winter she is the executive director of mass 50 51 an advocacy group committed to

20:11defending democracy in massachusetts she is one of the organizers of tomorrows no kings protests and joining me at the table president of the leadership conference on civil and human rights my wily she spoke at the no kings protests in new york city last october it is good to see you both all right Rebecca give us a preview what we can expect tomorrow oh we are going to be seeing a lot of non violent rage out in those streets we are looking at over 33 hundred protests that are scheduled across six continents we have more than one for every u.s. county and right now we're expecting between 10 and 12 million people are going to come out against a trump administration 10 to 12 million people my goodness my a wily so many american citizens who want to utilize their rights while they still have them to stand in the face of tyranny oppression and a devolution of civil rights and to say we're not afraid the leadership conference on civil and human rights is

21:14co-sponsoring this it's a diverse march it is made up of people who are experiencing directly the way and with this in which this administration is actually trying to take from us what we spent 76 years as a coalition fighting for and winning in this country and i just want to say this because you know when you say no kings the point about that statement is that it covers exactly what we are experiencing from our government this is our government it is not a government that is supposed to tell us it can violate the constitution or tell us that if we were born here we can't get a passport here if they decide we shouldn't get one or that tells us that it's okay for masked roving armed agents to stop us because your skin color is like mine or your name is like yours and that is a huge part of why no kings is about no violating our civil rights no thinking we're

22:21going back to before the civil war and no thinking that anyone in this nation is going to back down and be afraid because you're trying to drive fear well rebecca i mean it's almost two on the nose so in the donald trump is putting his signature on our currency right before this i want to read you just a little bit of what scott besen had to say he said under president trump's leadership we are on a path toward unprecedented economic growth lasting dollar dominance and fiscal strength and stability there is no more powerful way to recognize the historic achievements of our great country and president donald j trump then us dollar bills bearing his name i think anyone who's actually living in this economy rebecca would quibble with the way that scott besen classifies this moment that we find ourselves in but the the parallelism of no kings and a person who says he can vote by mail because he's the president but everyone else who votes by mail as a fraud and wants to put his name on everything from the Kennedy center to our currency it really paints a

23:25picture rebecca of where we find ourselves in this moment what do you hope the messages that these protests send tomorrow the messages are that what he is doing is lining the pockets of the Epstein class he doesn't give a crap about the american people he never has he has started another endless war in the middle east that is costing american taxpayers two billion dollars a day our gas prices are through the roof and this is after he's already cut snap benefits cut affordable health care i mean if he cared about the american people he would be focusing on the american people he does not he is a raging narcissist and he has filled his cabinet full of people who are completely disqualified for their positions so we are getting out there to reclaim our democracy and to repair it since it has not worked for a long time the the marches were once described to me rebecca as almost a connective tissue folks needing an outlet folks needing a sense of community

24:27as safety in this moment and that undoubtedly when we think about it as connective tissue that there is a real role for this energy to play going into midterms and i wonder sort of how you see yourself as an organizer taking the energy that we are seeing now in march and making sure that it manifests in organizing straight through to november that's exactly what this event is supposed to be the no kings events are visibility events so they are about solidarity they are about getting out in the streets being with like-minded people and reclaiming that hope that we have in american society what we need to do though is convert people from event goers into activists and many of these events are aiming to do that there are going to be organizers tabling across the country recruiting volunteers for frontline work for mutual aid work for mass mobilization work and then we're going to put that into organized power to preserve our free and fair elections

25:30and to fight all of the numerous battles along the way as trump continues to tear down our constitution it is up to us to dig in to be part of our democracy and to fight back keep thinking about the number that rebecca shared at the beginning of this segment the expectation of 10 to 12 million people which you know as organizers you put that number out there you better be pretty sure that that is the number that you're getting you compare it to the five million folks which was a huge number back in june of last year and i'm thinking about what has transpired and what has changed in that time and one of the undeniable things that has changed is the fact that americans together watched two of their fellow citizens watched two of their fellow citizens be killed repeatedly on loop on loop by the agents of this state and in any other timeline that would be the story that we return to over and over again we our attention is being pulled in so many directions but I

26:32do think that specific rage that specific sense of injustice that specific fear must be motivating just the sheer volume of turnout that is being anticipated tomorrow there's no question that when you push people up against the wall they're not going to just stand there and it's like a psychological we're pushing up against the wall we are going to remember that after they killed Ms. good and mr. pretty they also try to defend it i mean there was not even the grace to say these are two human beings who've lost their lives but by the way we saw six-year-old limb we saw university students being kidnapped off their campuses and out of their dorms people are here with permission and in school i mean we were told that this was going to be about criminals and yet the only crimes we're seeing committed right now is by people in uniform who are

27:33paid to serve us and who are supposed to keep us safe but are making us more endangered and by the way the the administration is taking this to the next level i mean we are fighting the attacks on civil rights organizations and the right to protest because this administration wants to silence dissent or those who try to hold it accountable and that is why these protests are growing that is why even two-thirds of those who are RSV paying the reason organizers can feel very confident about the numbers and i feel confident about the numbers is people are signing to be in these protests so they're not making the numbers up but two-thirds of them are not in major cities you know this notion that somehow is them liberal elite no because people are feeling the pain across this country they're feeling what is at stake which is exactly as Rebecca said you can spend this if i tell you at least yeah i'm going to take a trillion dollars to make

28:35you less safe and evaluate your rights by the way i'm also going to then do that by spending on department homeland security and i'm going to take one trillion dollars away from you being able to see a doctor when you're sick what are you going to say to me i think you're going to say i'll see you in the streets and i'll have a sign and then i'll be at the polls and it doesn't matter what you try to do so is the signs that i am watching for because the signs tell their own story real quick Rebecca if there is someone at home who is on the fence about whether or not to show up tomorrow what is your message to them you got to do it democracy is not a spectator sport we need everyone to get out there tomorrow and then continue the next day and the next day Rebecca winter thank you so much for your time Maya you are sticking with me when we return another twist in the Epstein scandal how private investigators working for Epstein's legal team took possession of Epstein's computers and hard drives devices that were possibly never seen by federal investigators that news plus a brand new lawsuit by Epstein survivors

29:39against the Trump administration and have all that after quick break now finding a doctor is a little less challenging united health group is investing in tools that make it easier for patients to navigate health care and pay less these transparency tools help patients find providers and this is the big thing compare costs up front the big picture more transparent pricing benefits everyone and these tools from united health group can help patients save hundreds of dollars annually learn more at unitedhealthgroup.com slash commitment if you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success then i excel is a right for your family as an effective and affordable online learning program i excel covers math language arts science and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-k to 12th grade listeners can get an exclusive 20% off i excel membership when they sign up today at i excel dot com slash 20 visit i excel dot com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price

30:43busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained pro lawns five day fasting mimicking diet rejuvenates you at the cellular level lets you enjoy real food and does not require an injection developed at u.s.c's longevity institute pro lawn supports biological age reduction metabolism skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at pro lawn life dot com slash pendora promo survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse are demanding accountability for the public release of their personal information filing a class action lawsuit against both the justice department for publishing their information and google for allowing that information to remain online the lawsuit alleges that with the DOJ's rapid release of the Epstein files they quote outed approximately 100 survivors of the convicted sexual predator publishing their private information and identifying them to the world even after the government acknowledged the disclosure violated the rights of the survivors

31:46and withdrew the information online entities like google continuously republish it refusing victims please to take it down adding the quote survivors now face renewed trauma strangers call them email them threaten their physical safety and accuse them of conspiring with Epstein when they are in reality Epstein's victims the group is seeking minimum damages of $1,000 per survivor from the justice department and is asking the court to order google to immediately remove survivor's personal information joining my Oily and me at the table is Danny Bansky she is one of the Epstein survivors who has been bravely advocating for transparency Danny thank you so much thank you for having me just to level said here yeah are you a part of this suit I'm not sure yet none of us really know it hasn't been completely certified yet so we won't know until it's a certified class action it should be because I'm an Epstein survivor so we will yeah we'll see TBD yeah this is how class actions work yeah this is how class actions work and in court you

32:52have to the lawyers have to say we have a class we want you to approve to be certified it is a judge who will decide but look I'm just gonna say this this is likely to be a certified class all that means is these are people with the same set of circumstances and therefore they're well represented as a group because it's basically the same claim in this and there's typicality they're typical claims so in this case it's very unlikely that it won't be certified okay so that is the legal east yeah we've now gotten it out of the way with me and my LSAT law education what's the impact for you though of having your information online oh I mean it's been huge I think so my information was released all three times even this last there was a batch of 20 documents that were released and even in that after my lawyers have already said her name needs to be redacted and sent a list of names that needed to be you know taken care of even in this last batch

33:52my name was still there so after each release I see more media that comes my way and threats honestly there are whether they're intense or not they're they're definitely like in my Facebook and box you know they'll say um I saw you on this program and I saw your information in the files and I you know whoever I have named so far there was one um when I was at the state of the union I gave I was part of the press conference and in my remarks I had talked about FBI director Patel and so um I had some stuff in my inbox that came through and just said like how dare you go after a gosh Patel um there was a man um posing with an assault rifle he sent me a picture of himself so things like that that just can really scare survivors of course um but there's been more of an influx of that after each of these releases and you know it's incredibly private information that is in our 302 statements right um and it's not meant for the world to see like I um we wanted

35:00the transparency and we needed the transparency to out those that are powerful right but in my 302 statement you're looking at something that was really the ramblings of a very scared um you know it was just 20 years old I had been told multiple times by Jeffrey Epstein that um if I ever went to law enforcement after I had turned 18 that I would be brought up on prostitution charges um I had talked to my mom about going in before when I was subpoenaed in 2008 um and she was like stay as far away from this as possible because you don't want to ruin your whole life you don't want to ruin you know any career aspirations that you have here um and so when I went to the FBI it really felt like an interrogation and I remember feeling so incredibly scared so in those 302s you know it's all of these files are meant to look at as an investigatory tool it is not meant to be totally face value so it was meant to be so that they can launch investigations right but to be under a microscope as a survivor all the time and not have your identifying information out there

36:03has been incredibly challenging to be under a microscope at 20 yeah and then to yourself have to revisit that um knowing that absolute strangers are revisiting it with you is so deeply unfair and this is why it was supposed to be the responsibility of the Department of Justice to make sure that folks like Danny were protected as these files were released that there was there was absolutely the ability to have the transparency that survivors were advocating for and at the same time to make sure that they were protected and that their names were redacted one time it's sloppy three times it is hard not to see it as a waffle negligence especially when you've delaying releasing the documents despite a law passed by Congress that says you have to and your claim about why it's taking so long is because you're being so careful about the identifying information of survivors like Danny and then what you just keep dumping it out there I mean

37:06this is incredibly irresponsible and that is my kind version of this but I just I just want to go back to Danny's point the whole job of the Department of Justice is to ensure that victims feel able to come forward very few people who are victims of sexual violence come forward and report it and therefore it's law enforcement's job to make it to make it as possible and to do this and to do it from the national office from the highest rungs of the Department and the FBI to and and then and then it's not even all the documents by the way so every aspect of this is both a complete travesty a complete disrespect to these survivors but it's also a signal that you

38:07can't trust law enforcement and the people's lawyers because that's what the Department of Justice is supposed to be the Department for us not the Department for just Trump. Maya Danny I wish you both to stick with me we're going to seek in a quick break and we're going to be right back. Back with Maya Wiley and Danny Ben Skier I want to talk to you about that other story that I teased earlier about the House Oversight Committee sending letters to private investigators removed hard drives from Epstein's home in 2005 to ensure they preserve the hard drives this is after the deposition of Indyke and Con your sense of what could be on those hard drives and the information that is still out there yeah I think you know this is just another example of how much information can be out there that we might not yet know certainly publicly don't know and we don't know what the Department of Justice knew when it was undergoing these investigations I mean hard drives are really important for investigations because even if you delete something or

39:11otherwise shredded or try to get rid of it can still be found on the hard drive so it could be incredibly important to understanding both who Jeffrey Epstein was in contact with what those communications were who knew what I mean so it there's no limit to what it potentially could tell us we don't know how much new information it would have or not have but the point is it's critical to know and it's not only critical to know it's critical to know what law enforcement know it's critical to critically important to know what this current administration knew I mean we've just been talking about how one of the devastating things about this current administration is it has so undermined trust in a federal agency the Department of Justice the FBI that is supposed to serve the people that is supposed to operate particularly when it comes to prosecutions without political aims but only the aims of making sure that we know who's committed a crime if they

40:12committed one they're punished for it this has laid bare the fact that we need and must continue to push for transparency and to hold this Department of Justice accountable and require that there be much more sunlight so that we can try to reestablish some faith and trust in government but also so that survivors can be getting the information they deserve in need when you listen to the depositions from indican on right upstairs yeah attorney is accountant is it plausible to you that just no idea what was happening I mean it's hard to believe for sure um I think something that sticks with me every day is that they were never questioned right that they were in waxer was never questioned about anything in the Epstein orbit um so something that I was thinking about personally was like you're the law law enforcement the FBI is bringing in all of us right at

41:1417 18 19 year olds right and talking to us but they didn't question the top down they never started with the money right with where the money exists so um that just felt it just feels like it's always more of an example of how systems have failed us time and time again and now I'm looking at this case and I'm feeling like there are two different cases that are happening right we have the co-conspirator orbit that Jeffrey had running and then we also have the problems with the DOJ and about how systems have failed and they're two completely different cases at this point that that survivors are up against and and that you're smart to say that because narratively I think they are often collapsed do you feel like one of those two cases is farther along? To good question um I'm hoping that the Epstein orbit and co-conspirators is a little bit further along I mean they just got back from the UK where we met with parliament members and their response was incredible and basically they're saying how do we continue to toe the line of accountability

42:16what can we do how can we help um so to see that from you know just the way it's playing out on such an international scale um is incredible because anything survivors really are in this Washington DC bubble a lot of the time and it that feels sort of like we're beating our head against the wall um so to go to it's the truth so like to go to the UK and have a parliamentarians that don't next to you and just say like how do I help you? It was like wow my mind is done the contrast between how it has been handed on the global stage as opposed to how it has been handles here in the United States is in fact mind-blowing and even ski you're amazing thank you so much thank you so much for being with us a quick break we're going to be right back this week is a brand new episode of the best people podcasts and Nicole's guest is a very familiar face to viewers of this network Nicole sat down with our friend Alex Wagner host of runaway country on crooked media listen to what Alex told Nicole about how Donald Trump is betraying his own mega followers I had been just hearing all this chatter and like some like

43:20loose reporting about how people were ready to take up arms for Trump and these militias a lot of who were in Georgia were ready to go ham and I said let's talk to them and so we reached out and they were interested in speaking I think in part because they were like no we're really serious about this and they like the idea that they're conjuring fear in the hearts of lips right that's a huge part of the appeal of being a maggot precious Republicans totally and just displaying their unwavering support for Trump and their deep conviction that the system was rigged I mean those are the people who are betrayed by both foreign intervention and the Epstein thing because they really buy into this idea which is not entirely untrue that a cabal of elites is making decisions that they have to pay for whether they are women and innocence and children who are trafficked for the delight and to be play toys for the ultra rich or whether they are working class in middle class boys and girls who are sent overseas and become collateral damage and a war of choice. You can listen to Nicole's entire conversation with Alex Wagner right now by becoming a premium

44:23subscriber sign up by scanning the QR code on your screen the new episode is going to be available to everyone starting Monday another break for us and then we'll be right back. Thank you for spending part of your Friday with us if you're not Nicole will be back on Monday and I will be back in one hour alongside Michael Steele and Simone Sanders Townsend for the weeknight. Why have I asked my age back guy I found on angi.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts I knew I could trust him to change pop-ups too while I was on vacation. Make it quick young man. Ah see pop-up trust you. I think we should call it doctor connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angi the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at angi.com