TRUE CRIME ROUNDUP: How a ‘Sandy Hook’ outcome was averted during synagogue attack, plus another twist in the Guthrie case

0:00Testing season is right around the corner. And this is when confidence really matters. When kids take time to review key concepts and strengthen their skills before assessments, it can make all the difference. IXL helps reinforce what they're learning right now. So they walk into every test feeling prepared, capable and confident. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills, or reviewing science concepts. Designed for students from pre-K through 12th grade, IXL delivers personalized interactive practice that adapts to your child's level and pace. It's an easy, effective way to support learning as the school year heads into its final stretch. Studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests, proven in all 50 states. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now,

1:00and listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXLlearning.com slash audio. Visit IXLlearning.com slash audio to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Do you have a dark curiosity? Heart starts pounding. Horror's hauntings and mysteries is a weekly podcast hosted by me, Keelan Moore. Each week, I'll take you on a dark journey through terrifying, true urban legends, bizarre, true crime cases, chilling tales of backwards horror and more. So if you're looking to join a passionate community of the Darkly Curious, check out Heart Starts pounding on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, stay curious. So if you are targeting Nancy Guthrie, are you going to park your very identifiable car in front of her house? Are you gonna walk up with your very identifiable goatee and probably pinky ring up to the front ring doorbell camera? You're a ski mask.

2:03The whole thing is so weird. This is a true crime and real time update from Odyssey's on-deadline podcast. We dive into true crime stories reported by Odyssey newsrooms across the country. And you just heard Dana Wright and Scott Parks of the Dana and Parks show out of Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City. They were discussing the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of today's show host Savannah Guthrie's 84 year old mother Nancy. Nancy was last seen on February 1st. In this episode, we'll explore the latest developments in the case. We'll also check in with W.W.J. News Radio's coverage of the attack on a Michigan synagogue this week. That resulted only in the death of the perpetrator. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer noted that law enforcement prevented what could have been another school massacre. How did they do it? From there, we'll go to WBEN in Buffalo, New York

3:05for the latest on the top's grocery store mass shooting case as it winds through the court system. To end the show, we'll also take a look at coverage from Henry Lake of WCCO News Talk in the Twin Cities and the Dave Glover show out of KMOX in St. Louis about a prank that turned deadly. But now, let's go back to Dana and Parks's discussion of the Guthrie case. According to sources, additional images have been recovered from the cameras at Nancy Guthrie's home, okay? Just now? The FBI has recovered additional imagery from cameras at the Arizona home of Nancy Guthrie. The images were recovered in recent weeks from the motion-activated cameras trained on the backyard, the side yard, the swimming pool, and, according to Fox News, the front yard, okay?

4:06Investigators were unable to recover video footage but reduced size thumbnail images captured whenever the cameras were triggered by motion. According to the source, the cameras recorded nothing suspicious. Investigators were able to observe several people in the back and side yards over an unspecified period of time prior to the abduction. However, the cameras captured nothing on the night of the abduction and picked up again only when police were looking around after 911 had been called in the side yard. Investigators have drawn no conclusions as to why but one source describes that as odd. So you mean to tell me, one guy, just one guy, goes in that house, takes her out of there, goes in the front, only comes out the front with no help, back, side, otherwise, and never cased it on the back or the side

5:08or otherwise. And there's not a single image showing anyone else. That is weird. Why would you need to cased it if you're only going in and out of the front door? Why would you go in and out of the front door period? Where the most recognizable immediate ring doorbell camera greeted him. Yeah. I don't know. Here's what I do know. I do watch the Today Show. I switch from Good Morning America to the Today Show because God love him. Michael Strayhand cannot read well. And it drives me crazy. I love Michael Strayhand. I like him as a character. Like when he's on the football programs on Sundays, but the man cannot read a teleprompter. And it drives me insane. So I switched over to the Today Show a couple of years ago. And it become quite a fan. Every day, the Today Show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin. And then every morning, Craig Melvin has to say,

6:11Hota Kotby is filling in for Savannah while she's with her family. I don't know how, and I know she has announced that she is coming back. Obviously she hasn't yet. And I don't know how you can do that. At least not in the short term. And then how long do, you're gonna say how long do they keep covering it? Listen to this from Matt Finn with Fox News. A law enforcement official close to the case tells Fox that new photos have been recovered from all three cameras. He reports that includes the driveway, the backyard, and the front door camera, the driveway. Fox has told the images did not show anything suspicious, but did show people and cars. Did he not have a car? Well, he probably, if he did, and I'm assuming he did, she had a driveway camera. And you're telling me there's nothing suspicious on those cameras. Well, he's not gonna park in front of the house. So to be clear, we have no update.

7:14I was just gonna go there. Thank you, Sam. We have nothing. The update on the story is we got nothing. The first. No, the update is they do have, they have all the images from the three different cameras that show nothing. That in and of itself is insanity. It should have picked up something. And then there's just this blank space, and then it picks up again when police are there. But I need you to put yourself in the mind of a criminal, okay? One who's not done, okay? And so somebody who has planned this out, even the sheriff says this week, this was a targeted, yes, targeted. So if you are targeting Nancy Guthrie, are you going to park your very identifiable car in front of her house? Are you gonna walk up with your very identifiable goatee and probably pinky ring up to the front ring doorbell camera? Ski mask. The whole thing is so weird.

8:16This scares me for a completely different reason. Because this tells me that even if you don't have a subscription, ring is storing your data. People who come up, come to your door, people who leave your house. Right, it's usually the mailman. Why do they have the data except then there's no data and then police just show up? Hold on. Why does that concern you? Because we are welcoming a surveillance state that we don't even know the depth of. No. That didn't even work in this case, Sam. You have put that on your house. That's what I said. We're welcoming it. Okay. It creeps me out as a ring camera user. I'm well, and we have the sensors inside our house and the sensors on our windows. Okay, so is it a complete false sense of security then? It's weird. Because we have cameras everywhere. And it's like, so did she. And she probably thought, I mean, nobody's going to come in here. She didn't have a subscription. She wasn't paying for the service.

9:18And I, I went and sought out services and subscribed after this happened. If there's a subscription, I bought it. I know that I will be switching as soon as I can afford the camera package to the in-home system that is not connected to ring or Amazon or whatever. We have exterior service. We don't have interior service, but I also have guns. So if I'm in the house and you break in, we have two people and three guns. I'm coming double blazing. And so that doesn't concern me that we don't have interior cameras, but we do have exterior ones. And so does everybody on the block. So did everybody on her block side. Yeah, but her block was not lit. Lights were not allowed. Street lights were... I'm putting up flood lights if I live in Tucson right now. I don't think that's leaked. I know, they're not supposed to be able to do it. No. Look at that where that's got us. Well. She loves it hot. He loves it cold. However you sleep, the pod by eight sleep adapts to you.

10:20Get up to $350 off with code DeepSleep at eightsleep.com. Testing season is right around the corner. And this is when confidence really matters. When kids take time to review key concepts and strengthen their skills before assessments, it can make all the difference. IXL helps reinforce what they're learning right now. So they walk into every test feeling prepared, capable and confident. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills, or reviewing science concepts. Designed for students from pre-K through 12th grade, IXL delivers personalized interactive practice that adapts to your child's level and pace. It's an easy, effective way to support learning as the school year heads into its final stretch. Studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests, proven in all 50 states. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US,

11:23making an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. And listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXLlearning.com slash audio. Visit IXLlearning.com slash audio to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. I'm Sarah Austin-Geness, the Moths Executive Producer and longtime host of the Moth Podcast. Every week, we share true stories told live and without notes by real people from all walks of life. Stories about disastrous haircuts, may December romances, photographing Pluto, fighting for justice, and so much more. Some stories make you laugh, some make you think, and many stay with you long after they're told. Discover the power of story. Follow and listen to the Moth wherever you get your podcasts. In an interview released Friday by NBC News, Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos said that his office is still working to identify the masked man seen at Nancy Guthrie's home.

12:25He also said investigators now have a theory for a motive for the alleged kidnapping, and that they believe that the Guthrie case was, quote, targeted. Another crime described as targeted this week was the attack on Temple Israel in the Detroit area on Thursday, March 12th. A man identified by federal officials as 41-year-old Iman Muhammad Ghazali, a naturalized US citizen born in Lebanon, reportedly drove his truck into the synagogue. He died during the attack, but no students, teachers, or staff were killed during the incident. Here's Jennifer Runyon, the FBI special agent in charge at the Detroit Field Office, leading the investigation. Discussing the case during a Thursday press conference covered by Odyssey Station, WWJ News Radio. This is a deeply disturbing and tragic incident, and our deepest sympathies are with the victims, their family, and the entire Jewish community.

13:27The FBI is here working with our state, local, and federal partners to investigate this incident, and I confirm that we are leading the investigation right now as a targeted act of violence against the Jewish community. As my partners have said, this is an active, an ongoing investigation with an active crime scene, and I ask for your patience as we process this evidence and pursue every lead that has come to us and that we have developed thus far. What I can't share is this. There was one subject involved in this incident who was now deceased. As my partners have said, we've had no victim fatalities. We'll not be able to provide additional information at this time on the subject or his motive, as our goal is to protect the integrity of this investigation and to make sure that we give you accurate and timely information in the citizen plan. The FBI is notified of active reports, excuse me, of active shooter at Temple Israel approximately 1245. We immediately activated and deployed all of our crisis response resources,

14:27which includes our SWAT team, our new crisis negotiation team, our evidence response team, our special agent bomb techs, our weapons and mass destruction team, our cellular analysis survey team, and our victim services, as well as more than 100 agents and analysts to ensure that we are actively mitigating and responding to the active threat, but also pursuing diligently and methodically every lead that we have. My ask to the public is a few things. I know everyone wants information now, but I ask that you be patient as we are still processing the scene and still pursuing everything that we can and that has come to us today. Second, we've activated a digital media tip line for any witnesses who has photos or videos of the incident today. They can upload those at www.fbi.gov forward slash West Bloomfield attack, all one word.

15:27But the public can also report through our call line at 1-800-call-FBI. If you have any information about this incident and or any other suspicious activity that you see around in your community, your life, your place of the worship, your schools. As the sheriff said, we all need to remain vigilant and it takes the whole community to ensure that we remain safe. Gazali was a restaurant manager per the Detroit Free Press. CBS News reported Friday that he had recently learned of the death of his two brothers and two of their children in an Israeli air strike in Lebanon citing a source from the Lebanese American community in Michigan. In addition to the war in Gaza that began in October 2023, the US and Israel recently began strikes on Iran. Air strikes have been raining across the Middle East, claiming lives on all sides of these battles. According to CBS's source, Gazali called his ex-wife and told her to take care of their children shortly before the attack,

16:30something that alarmed her. The source said that his ex-wife then contacted police and relatives to check on him. Here's Steve Smith, a witness who saw the attack on Temple Israel describing it to W.W.J.'s Amanda Forester. Okay, right now there are police outside every entrance. They just brought in several dogs. Tacticals have been in there. They've got some of the officers have gas masks on. I don't know, they're still smoke coming out of the inside of school. So I think they're searching for somebody. Sorry, I was sitting here for the food pantry and I was about 10 cars back in a grayish darker like a smoke colored pickup truck pulled into a little half circle where everybody picks their food up later and then came back out of it, went down to door number five,

17:35cut across the grass, backed up and gunned it and slammed into school. I think they're still evacuating people if they can find them. And what have you heard from police? Not a thing from police, other than everybody back up. And what time was this? 11, no. 12, about 1230. And have you guys seen anybody coming out that appears to be injured or is it just... No, they've evacuated a few of the staff and hopped them in vehicles and drove them off down to the end of the parking lot, fire departments here, medical squad here, officers are standing like it said

18:35on all the doors that I can see. And is there anything I haven't thought to ask you? I know this is kind of like an unfolding situation but is there anything at this time that I haven't asked you that you wanna make sure that our listeners know as of right now? Not much, I don't know if anybody else did that I did call 911 as soon as I saw him slam into the building. He went right in the doors. So I don't know how far he went down but the smoke seems to be coming for him probably 30 foot inside the school. Oh, I just heard some kind of boom. Oh, that's the second time I've heard of boom. The other one was about 15 minutes ago. Testing season is right around the corner. And this is when confidence really matters. When kids take time to review key concepts

19:36and strengthen their skills before assessments, it can make all the difference. IXL helps reinforce what they're learning right now so they walk into every test feeling prepared, capable and confident. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills or reviewing science concepts. Designed for students from pre-K through 12th grade, IXL delivers personalized interactive practice that adapts to your child's level and pace. It's an easy, effective way to support learning as the school year heads into its final stretch. Studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests, proven in all 50 states. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. And listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXLlearning.com slash audio.

20:36Visit IXLlearning.com slash audio to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Life can feel overwhelming, but on my podcast, from the heart with Rachel Brayton were in it together. Every Friday brings you a new story. Listen to from the heart with Rachel Brayton wherever you get your podcasts. Oakland County Executive, David Colter, also joined WWJ to explain how his team at the Oakland County Emergency Operations Center monitored the situation. Well, I was horrified. You know, this is, it breaks my heart. And this is the third situation like this inside Ben Executive, if you think about Oxford High School and then the Water Park and Rochester Hill. So it's just breaks my heart that this is, this is where we are as a country, but I'm proud of the fact that our team has responded. I'm at our Emergency Operations Center right now. We're coordinating all the response to this and they're doing an amazing job and we're doing everything we can to keep the synagogue

21:37and the people there in the community safe. At this point, how does the Oakland County Community support West Bloomfield in the wake of this? Well, the media thing is to stay away from the area, which I'm sure the sheriff has said, it's still an active scene and there's still a lot of things going on there. Prayers are always helpful, a person to prayer myself. So I think that's a wonderful thing to do. But look, we're responding in all sorts of different ways. The children that were at school in the synagogue have now been moved off site. We're gonna provide mental health counselors. We actually provided parts buses to get them there. I mean, we spare no effort to try to figure out exactly how we can assist them, but right now, there'll be more details on what folks can do to help, especially as we know the extent of any possible injuries, which there's no confirmation of serious injuries at this point, which is very fortunate, unlike some of the other incidents that we've had. So that's the good news. I should also add, I've been in contact with our governor

22:39and both of our senators, our Congresswoman Stevens from here and they've all just pledged the state and federal support that we need. And so I'm grateful for them. The response from Oakland County and from police departments all throughout the county exceptional, the time they took to get there, almost no time at all. And you had to be pleased with what you saw there. Very much so. First, starting with the Bloomfield police, who were on the scene right away, leading the investigation, but then again, yes, the sheriff department, numerous police departments from across the area have come their Michigan state police. I mean, these fall, and unfortunately, this is the third time I've watched them in operation, but I want people to know just how confident and that they can be and proud of our first responders. Former Detroit violent crimes, task force lieutenant Tom Barry, explained to W.W.J.'s Tony Ortiz, what exactly law enforcement will be doing as the investigation moves forward? What's going on now at the scene now that the suspect is dead?

23:42Well, what they're doing now is obviously the violent crime of FBI is on the way there. They haven't taken over the investigation right now. It's Oakland County, but I'm just a terrorist that did this. That's dead. They will take over the investigation. They'll track it back. Has he been listening online to rhetoric and brainwashing? Is that why he did it or didn't do it? That's what they'll be looking at. Is there anybody else involved? So they'll go through his computer. They go through his phone and check that out once they identified. And I'm sure they already got him identified. But the officers that were out there, I want to say this personally, they're all retired officers. They know what they're doing. They train for this. Just like Oakland County does. They're ready for things like this. They don't want it to happen. But that's what they do with all the anti-Semitic things that's been going on in the world in the past couple weeks. They're ready for it. They train for it. They know what they're doing. And I'm very proud of them.

24:42And it looks like they know exactly what they're doing. They neutralize the shooter. They got the kids out of there. I believe it's a daycare out there. Yes. And nobody else was injured. It's just a sad situation for the man and the man's family. But other than that, nobody else appears to have been hurt. Nobody was injured. And it worked. So training does work. They came together. They worked together. And they neutralized the shooter. And I think. Tom, I'm kind of curious. How do authorities now go about investigating a motive in these type of attacks? What they do is they'll start with him. I believe it's a man. I'm saying it's a man. And they'll start with him. Check his background. They'll go through all his social media. His phone. They'll be executing search warrants wherever he lives. So that you'll expect right now that they've already getting that done. They're probably on the way to his house or apartment awareness right now to search that. They can find out the clues. Why did he do this? Was he ill? Was he sick? Was he anti-Semitic?

25:43Was he involved in the political rhetoric that that happens on this? And all too often, that's what it seems to be. They get that thing in their head. And they're a little bit on. And it's just the way it is. And they snap. They just snap. Now I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And unfortunately, that appears to what happened here. I don't know that. I'm just giving you my opinion. But he snapped. And he went there and he had a mission. And he completed his mission. Security, a Jewish and other religious organizations has been increased in the wake of this attack. How much can organizations do to prevent these type of attacks? You can't prevent crime. You can't prevent terrorism. You can slow it down. You can make them think about it. But if somebody has that in their mind and they want to do what they're going to do, it's unfortunate. But we can't stop it all. You can't stop it. And I call them a crazy person. They've lost their mind. They snapped. It's hard to stop them.

26:44So all we can do in law enforcement is what we do every day. And especially Oakland County, they're all over this along with the former officers that unfortunately had to shoot the man. They train for this. And when you train over and over and over, when something like this happens, I'll tell you, we've been involved in that. It clets. It just clicks in. And you just do it. And half hour later, you get together to a lot, a lot of that happened. Well, you train for it. It's like tying your shoes every day. We don't have to tie your shoes. And these officers out there are highly trained. Oakland County is highly trained. The local police department for situations just like this. And this is a great example of training working together, having that dialogue with the other law enforcement agencies in the community and coming together. And this is the result of it. It's unfortunate. But this is the end result of all that training. Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, also addressed the attack in a press conference this week. She stressed the importance of being

27:46vigilant about anti-semitism, a form of hate that's been on the rise in recent years. And I want to thank our state and local law enforcement, the press responders, our federal partners, for their swift work to keep people safe and to investigate. I want to thank Temple Israel's security personnel. They were selfless in their courage and they saved lives. These heroes threw themselves in harm's way, engaging the suspect. And let's be very clear, yes, this is a place of worship. But at the time that this attack was occurred, it was a school, 104 children, each five and younger here. So I want to thank all of Temple Israel staff who acted quickly to evacuate students and reunite families. To see to Michigan, we'll wrap our arms around this community and support our local and federal partners every step of the way to keep people safe. I want to share prayers from my colleague,

28:49Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Josh called, resh out yesterday to check in and see how people were doing. I want Michigan's Jewish community to know that we are with you. Violence in our houses of worship and in our schools and in our daycare centers like this is especially hard. Temple Israel is a pillar of the community. It's one of the largest reformed Jewish congregations in North America with Friday night Shabbat services attracting over 1,000 people. People celebrate bar and bot mitzvahs, weddings, and holidays here. Parents bring their children to daycare and school. And it's a place of peace, unity, light, and life. Yesterday's attack was anti-Semitism. It was hate, plain and simple. We will fight this ancient and rampant evil. We will stand together as we do it. And we will call it out. We must lower the rhetoric in this state and in this country,

29:54especially at this moment where we have seen such a rise in anti-Semitism and more attacks on the Jewish community. Must keep each other close. This community is on the edge very understandably. We've seen a rise in attacks, especially over the last decade, especially over the last 10 months. And so it is important for us to stand up to stand against it and to thank the people who showed up to support the community, but also call out where we see acts of anti-Semitism, where we see threats, where we see something and how important it is to say something. And to recognize that each of us has a responsibility. People like the person that attacked this community yesterday get fomented by rhetoric that they see online and that they see on television and they hear on the radio. It radicalizes people.

30:56And it endangers our fellow Michiganders. We cannot let this continue. And so each of us has a duty to take action, where and how we can. And with that, I'll hand it over to Senator Slotkin. Whitmer was referring to Democratic Senator Alissa Slotkin, a former intelligence analyst. Thank you, Governor, and just want to reiterate, I think it's clear that if it were not for the private security and the staff at Temple Israel, and then the first responders first on the scene, local law enforcement, if they had not all done their jobs, almost perfectly, we would be talking about an immense tragedy here today with children gone. This could have been much, much worse. So I give incredible credit to law enforcement and the people who are in the room, putting themselves and their own families at risk. I think the governor said it very, very well on the way this community has responded. It's been incredible to watch neighbors in the community here,

31:59both organizations, and just regular old citizens open up their homes literally yesterday to help care for people who are fleeing from this. And this is a place that I have a very personal connection to. I feel I've spent a lot of my time growing up in and out of this temple. And I feel just an immense amount of pain as does the rest of the community that incidents like this even happen. And I think it's just important to be clear as the governor said that whether anti-semitism is coming from the left or the right, whether it's coming from some group that you like or don't like, you have a responsibility to call it out. Because when you don't, it gives permission for people to climb that escalation, that ladder of escalation that goes from saying hateful things online to saying them in person, to graffiti, to ultimately violence. And the Jewish community suffers 10 times the number

33:01of hate crimes than any other community in this country. So it is an epidemic. And until we push back on that permission, we're gonna see incidents like this continue to proliferate. The Jewish community spends over a billion dollars across the country, securing their houses of worship, their schools, their institutions. No community in America should be fearful of having their own kind congregate for things like education and worship. So I stand here proud of the community, but angry that we even are put in this position, thankful to law enforcement, but asking the average citizen out there, if you have a friend, a colleague, co-workers who are using anti-semitism in their daily life and feel like it's just normal, please call that out wherever you see it. Whitmer also said the situation could have been much worse when taking questions from reporters.

34:01When it comes to the lowering of the temperature, because we talk to each other and work together, we go down to the mosque and check it. What's the message you can deliver to help lower the temperation? I think I'm trying to deliver that message right now that we are Michiganders. This was a school. These are zero to five year olds that were targeted yesterday, 104. My friend Brian said this could have looked a lot more like Sandy Hook, right? Like let's not lose sight of that. This is not a political moment. This is not a political debate. This is targeting babies who are Jewish. That's anti-semitism at its absolute worst. And that's why we cannot lose sight of that, the importance of keeping everyone in Michigan safe by being responsible and how we talk about issues and how we treat one another.

35:02Another hate-fueled crime, the top grocery store shooting in May 2022, resulted in then 18 year old Peyton Gendron killing 10 black people and wounding others at the Buffalo, New York grocery store. An investigation into the tragedy revealed that Gendron wrote a self-described manifesto containing a detailed plan to shoot and kill black people at tops. That's according to the US Department of Justice. This case is still moving through the courts. Attorney John Almore, who represents some of the families impacted by the mass shooting, joined a new morning out of Odyssey Station WBEN this week to discuss the latest developments, including the decision to keep the trial in Buffalo. A junior reaction to the decision to keep the trial here in Buffalo. I'm not surprised at all. The Western District of New York, Federal District Court, where the case is being tried,

36:02covers eight counties. There are people that are in the southern tier that weren't, didn't see too much news and weren't actually affected by it. People in Keterogas, county service jurors, you're all with time, Allegheny, Orleans County. So they're going to be able to get a fair juror of people who weren't prejudiced by the pretrial publicity. As far as African Americans not being able to serve, on the jury that's an allegation that the defense has made in their motions to say that the jury will not be made up of a fair cross-section of Western New Yorkers. I think it's counterintuitive. Probably, no matter where the case was tried, it would be difficult to find in African American that would be completely unbiased. And more than likely, the defense would use their primary challenges to challenge African Americans

37:04that did survive the initial jury questionnaire process and got questioned by the jurors. So I'm not surprised at all. The argument that for victims' families to be able to attend every day, having to travel to Rochester or wherever else that might have been, did that, in your opinion, make a lot or way a lot on the judge's mind? Absolutely, the judge had to balance the defense right to have a fair and impartial jury along with the victim's rights to attend the trial or the victim's families' rights to attend the trial. Now, one thing I can say is that there's going to be a process where the judges are going to receive a bunch of questionnaires from Western New Yorkers that the principal attorneys are going to review them. And if it looks like the defense is not going to have a fair and impartial jury based upon those questionnaires, they can renew this motion again. But the bottom line is for all Western New Yorkers

38:07is that it's important that this defendant receive a fair trial in front of an impartial jury because you don't want to have the case tried again. You don't want to leave any reason for a higher court to overturn a verdict, whatever it may be, so that this case doesn't have to be tried a second time and the families have to relive the trauma and the community doesn't have to relive the collective trauma that they've experienced through this terrible tragedy. Our last story today is an unusual one. In Georgia, a prank turned deadly earlier this month when 40-year-old teacher John Hughes was run over by a truck driven by one of his students. Here's Henry Lake of Odyssey Station WCCO News Talk in the Twin Cities, explaining what makes this case

39:09unique. When grief shows up at your door with an unexpected accidental death, there are many ways that one can react. But knowing that you don't want to make a bad situation worse, that is the best way to go. We know that life happens. We oftentimes, when we're raised, we have this script and your life does not go according to plan. In Laura Hughes, she defines what I'm talking about right now. She is a woman that's dealing with the tragedy and I think that she's dealing with it the right way. So Laura Hughes is the wife in now widow

40:09of a high school teacher by the name of Jason Hughes. He was killed in a prank gone wrong and Laura is asking for, in literally is begging for charges to be dropped against the students that are involved in this prank. There were five teenagers that were arrested after her husband Jason was run over when he slipped and fell outside of his home in Gainesville, Georgia, while chasing them for covering his front yard in toilet paper as part of a prank war that had been a school tradition for years. Okay. And Laura says that her husband was in on it,

41:11in on it in the way that he wasn't trying to confront them as they're putting the toilet paper or throwing it all around or whatever, but he was excited and he was waiting to catch them in the act. Right? So this is high school tradition, he's anticipating it. So he's kind of in on it, he's having fun with it too. One of the teenagers, Jaden Wallace, 18, he's facing up to 15 years after police charged him with a vehicular homicide in the teacher's death. So what transpired is this, Mr. Hughes, he stepped outside, it's 1140 on a Thursday night, walked over to the cars that Wallace and there were four other teenagers that were in the vehicle and they were getting into fling after they,

42:15what's the phrase that they use? Well, what do they call it? I've never done it where they throw the toilet paper all over the lawn. Oh, you're just like toilet papering as always. That's all that I thought that was going. Yeah, I mean, I know that that's what they're doing. I thought that there was like a phrase, I never did that in my school. All right, but what ended up happening was as they're trying to exit and flee, Mr. Hughes fell into the road and he was run over by the pickup truck with the students in it. They stopped immediately, they provided first aid until emergency responders arrived and the emergency responders transferred him to the hospital where he died from his injuries. Six, five, one, four, six, one, nine, two, two, six. The Dave Glover show out of Odyssey Station K-M-L-X in St. Louis, also discussed the case this week. That's, it's such a horrible story.

43:16It's awful. So the widow of a Georgia teacher who was fatally run over by a student during a prank at his home is now asking prosecutors to back off of the students who killed her husband. So there were five teenagers who went to the teacher's house just before midnight to T.P. his house and according to the wife of the man who lost his life, he was like in on the joke and he went outside to surprise them and prank them back. But he ended up slipping on the wet ground. I guess he was running around trying to like, you know, get around them and scare them. He fell into the street as the students got into their vehicles and struck and killed him. So they did try to provide but life-saving measures on the scene. They weren't running from the situation. They obviously did not mean to hurt their teacher. It was from all accounts like a lighthearted, great relationship between the teacher and the students

44:19and it just went too far and it was a terrible tragedy. Well, now the student who ran him over is charged with first degree vehicular homicide, reckless driving, criminal trespass and littering. And then the four other teens who were with him, they just face misdemeanor trespass and littering counts. But yeah, the wife teaches at the same high school that they all go to and where her husband taught and she's like, guys, we got to drop these charges. It's a terrible tragedy, but let's not also ruin the lives of these students. This kid could face up to 15 years in prison if he's convicted as charged. So why would we play hardball on that? That is such a good question. When the person most impacted is flat out saying, look, it was just an accident. Like it was literally, I mean, it's horrible. It's terrible, but it wasn't like they did anything intentionally

45:21to that was harmful. I mean, you're teaping someone's house. It's not like you set the porch, you set a bag of dog crap on fire and the house burned down. That would be a little different. I mean, it's an innocent thing where in playing around with the prank because he knew it was coming, the teacher ends up just slipping and falling. I don't get why you would ruin someone's life over that. According to a Friday report from People magazine, District Attorney Lee Dara did indeed decide to drop charges against the teens. Thank you so much for listening to this true crime and real time roundup from The On Deadline Podcast. This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Berry. Special thanks to the Dana and Parks show out of KMBZ in Kansas City. WWJ News Radio in Detroit. A new morning out of WBEN in Buffalo. The Henry Lake show out of WCCO News Talk in the Twin Cities

46:23and the Dave Glover show out of KMOX in St. Louis. You can find and subscribe to these shows on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find these true crime updates by subscribing to The On Deadline Podcast, the Who Killed Strawberry Podcast, or The Bitter Academia Podcast on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, fly on the walls back for another season. That's right. On audio and video every Monday and Thursday. Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts.