Tiny on Kandi Fighting Xscape Members, Biggie Diss, TI Divorce Filing (Flashback)

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1:05All right, here we go. Tiny, welcome back to Vlad TV. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, we were just talking. It's been like six years since our last one. Yeah, too long. Too long. Too long. And, you know, honestly, with like, I've probably done about 1,000 interviews. I got to say you're one of the nicest people I've ever interviewed. Thank you so much. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I walked away from our last one. Your interviews are always amazing, different and amazing, so, you know. Thank you. Thank you. Well, before we get into the whole rest of the story, you have a new show called The Mix. Yes, yes, that is my new baby. It is just a show that I felt like needed to be created for the younger generation. For us to understand, you know, more where they're coming from, how they feel. What they think, you know, because there was a time for me. I know I was like, kind of, they are just going crazy. Like they so wow, you know, and I guess it's really because you see so much because of social media

2:10versus when it was back in our, you know, wilder days. It was not really social media going on. So, you know, with that, I say watching Zanik and Regine and all her friends, just kind of how they vibe, kind of things they talk about. I felt like it needs to be a platform for this generation so they can speak to their people. Oh, yeah. I mean, your daughter Zanik is on it, Romeo Miller, Masterpiece son, Zanik, Anton Peoples, Jamie Dubose. Am I saying the right? Yep. And Jazz Anderson? Yes. I love my kids. I think, you know, it's a well-rounded kids, you know, being that they are all different ages and different walks of life. You know, some has been, their family has been in the business for so long. They grew up in it and, you know, just seeing things through a different eye. You know, I just felt like it was well-rounded, just a good cast, you know.

3:11Well, congrats. I mean, you're one of the executive producers or the executive producer on the show? Yes, I am. Yes. You know, I came up with this idea and, you know, and just went to James Dubose and we kind of, we made work. Right. And, I mean, you've worn this executive producer a few times now because some of your other shows you actually executive produce as well. Yes. Yes. I've been lucky to be able to executive produce that thing, every show I've been on so far. So, yes. Every show, every show that you've been on, you've executive produced. Yes. Yes. Wow. Wow. Now, it's just amazing to see people, you know, that have been in the industry for so long and start out as one thing, you know, just being an artist to transition to so many other things like you've done to be a songwriter and winning a Grammy that way to now getting to television and putting on your boss hat for that as opposed to just being another cast member in a reality show.

4:12You actually are executive producing the shows, creating shows, having a level of ownership in it. This is dope. You know, I'm impressed. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. I've, you know, I've been blessed, you know, to be able to do that. You know, I know it's a, it's different coming out of the music and just being able to come in and really come in at a level like that. It's definitely a blessing. No doubt. Congrats on this. Thank you. Well, we've done interviews before, but I really want to get more into your, your story because I feel it's so, it's so exceptional. You know, you grew up with mixed parents. Yes. And these days, it's extremely common. But, but back then, not so much. Yes. So, yeah. And, you know, a lot of people don't know this, but my mom and her first husband, which was my sister and brother's father, were the first, were the second couple.

5:13And, you know, I think in the southern areas or in the, you know, to be married, you know, in a ratio. I know one couple before them was a black woman and a white man got married first and then they were the second couple. So, yes, it's pretty deep because, you know, I know, I listen to their stories and how they tell me they would, like, let my mom and through the front door, but my dad and them be performing. They have to go in through the back, you know. Yeah. So, it's different. Just hearing a lot of their stories. They have so many. My mom, I just tell her, like, if you wrote a book, like her story is so interesting, like, just hearing a lot of things that she went through. I be, you know, it's crazy. Well, right, because these days, interracial is literally, like, almost a norm. I mean, we have, we had an interracial president. We now have an interracial vice president. But, loving versus Virginia, which was basically the Supreme Court decision to allow interracial marriage was 1967.

6:17Yeah. So, that was not, you know, like, your parents were growing up in an era where it was just illegal. You could not marry the opposite, you know, a different race without potentially going to prison. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think she got married right in that, right there, in that 67, 68, or 60. Right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, I mean, your parents were kind of, kind of, trendsetters and trailblazers in a way. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, growing up with mixed parents like that, were there ever any issues in terms of, like, racism from both sides? I mean, I didn't really feel like I, as a child, I didn't feel like I caught that, you know, in my, but my sister and my brother have a different story. They said growing up because we always stayed, like, indicator Georgia's kind of like the hood, you know, like, well, you know, it's, it's mainly black. And I won't say it's just the hood, but like, it's mainly black people's not like a lot of white people.

7:18So, my sister and my brother, they were younger and they were like the mixed kids with a white mother. So, they, they said they had to fight all their life growing up, you know what I'm saying? But when I came up, I, um, as a younger, I did, I stayed off of Cleveland Avenue and I don't remember a lot of racism like that, you know. I don't remember going through it myself like that. Now, you started singing at what age? I started really singing at the age of probably like 12, 11. Okay. I feel like it was kind of late. Did it start in the church or seeing lessons? No, it really started. My father, my father is a singer. He's a singer. He comes from, in name of his group, it's called The Tams. They were out in the 60s and they were like a big beach group with the drifters and everything. So, like, I just, I was surrounded all my life, you know, just going in and out of clubs, being with my father,

8:18selling murder beats, jackal Island, that's where I was most of my life. Um, and, I mean, I just kind of, as I was, you know, growing up, I wanted to dance. I just, everything was about dance, dance. And my father would be like, you can't make any money dancing. Like, you need to start doing something else like singing. And he would hear me in the house singing like different people's songs. I think like one of my main people were like Mariah Carey. They were trying to really get into her. And, um, you know, he would hear me and start to, start training my voice at that time. And I was like, maybe about 12 somewhere around in there. Yeah, I actually looked up The Tams as you were talking about. They got some snazzy outfits. Let me tell you. Yeah. The Tams. Let me show you. Yes. Now, that is a, that picture right there is like a newer picture of them. Like, that's like the young Tams. But if you go to like some of their old, like my brother was, my brother's been with them since he was seven years old.

9:24He's now like 50 or, yeah. So, yeah, that's the originals. That's my father in the far left top. Ah, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So you grew up in a, in a household that was already deeply in music professionally. Not just music fans. You guys were actually in the music business already. Yeah. How successful were the Tams? Did they ever have any hit records or anything like that? Yeah, he records. I think they had like number. I don't know what she said. They charted. There was no chart records. But they definitely had big records. Like, what kind of food do you think I am? I think you lied to me. You lied to your daddy. They had a few about four or five like nice, pretty big songs. Okay. Now, here you are in Atlanta. And people have to realize this is not that Atlanta of 2020 at that time. Atlanta really had no music scene at all. I remember when I interviewed Jermaine DePri.

10:25He was like kind of telling me how there was just nothing in Atlanta. You know, no hip hop scene, no labels, no major studios. He was flying like writers and stuff like that down to Atlanta. You know, for example, I just interviewed speech from arrested development. And they got their start also. They were saying how in the beginning it was like, you know, their first song was called Tennessee. Everyone just assumed they were from there because Atlanta was not this hub. The Jermaine DePri so-so deaf era came later. That's after. Yeah. Atlanta, because you know, I'm thinking like, well, what about Atlanta? I'm like, now you're right. Atlanta at the time was just a small southern city without a bunch of energy around it. Now, when in hip hop in particular, there wasn't a lot of energy going on on a nationwide, you know, worldwide level. Now locally, we had acts that we knew about here, you know what I mean? But nah, nationwide, it wasn't, it just wasn't like that. So as you're coming up, you know, and I guess you sang in Jermaine's birthday party or something like that where you got discovered?

11:30At that point, did you think that you were going to get on in Atlanta or did you feel like you needed to go to New York or L.A. or someplace else? Well, I mean, we didn't feel like we knew that it was some big producers at the time in Atlanta. We knew that Dallas Austin was a big time producer. We knew that Jermaine DePri was L.A. fake, L.A. and baby face. So we knew that we could head a chance because by this time Tony Brexton had been out, I think TLC had just kind of started coming out. But we, at first, we were kind of like traveling. We traveled to DC when we did the first show we did, which was like a, it was kind of like a talent show. I can't remember Mark Cooper, I think was doing the, you know, the hosting or whatever. And we sung, hold on. And that was like our moment when people started to really know, like, oh, those, those, those girls. And even Jermaine, by the time we went, we met Jermaine, he was like, oh, this, this little group.

12:33You know, people kind of like, we would go places and then they'll kind of remember us from that show. But we were, we still didn't have a deal we didn't have anybody. And then we started working with, I don't know if you remember the boys. Yeah, of course. So we started working with the boys father, which is his name is Jabari. And he basically started, like, grooming us. And from there, when we got back with Ian and got to Jermaine. And he said, oh, yeah, he liked us. We sung for him. He liked us. But he said, after, you know, Chris Cross wasn't out yet. He was like, as I put them out, I'm going to come back and get you. And we kind of was like, yeah, yeah, you know, we didn't hurt at all. Dallas Austin told us we sang too loud. So that didn't go well for us. You know, it was kind of like a little down, but we never stopped rehearsing. We rehearsed like four or five days out the week, you know. And we were just singing, singing, singing too. We felt like, and then, you know, one day Jermaine did, he kept his word and called us back and said, hey, bring that group back. And we ended up singing.

13:34We were singing, is my living in vain for him? And from there, he was like, you know, I'm going to go in the studio. I'm going to, he redid the track. And that's the first thing we recorded. This episode is brought to you by White Cloth Search. Great podcast, big friend. No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there. Just like White Cloth Search. I'm with big bold flavors to enjoy, like blood-orange, blackberry, cranberry and more. It's time to go all-in, untaste, unleash the flavor. Unleash White Cloth Search. Please drink responsibly. Hard Seltzer with flavors, 8% alcohol by volume. White Cloth Seltzer works. Chicago, Illinois. This message comes from NPR sponsor Paramount Plus and the new original series, The Madison. Taylor Sheridan's most intimate story yet. The Madison follows a family raised in a world of digital distraction, forced by tragedy to truly see one another and come together, starring Michelle Pfeiffer and Kurt Russell. The Madison, new series streaming now, only on Paramount Plus.

14:35Right, and originally, Escape had five members. Originally, we had five members and her name was 10. She was in the group with me 40. And at first, they thought, well, I think when they called me to come in audition for the group, they were thinking about maybe replacing her because I felt, I think they felt like, she wasn't really as far as much into it as, you know, the rest of the girls. So, they had me come audition, but when they had me audition, they wanted me. But they didn't want to necessarily get rid of 10 either. So, it became a fiasome. And we started working with Jabari. And Jabari is the one who basically put her out of the group. Oh, okay. They had a very big argument. One time, we was at the studio and it just went left-field. And he said she was out of the group. Remind, I'm sure she feels the level of regret. Well, I mean, I don't think she does. Because I think that, I mean, she's still very good friends with her and her best friends.

15:39And, you know, me and her are also very good friends. And I think she's done so well for herself. Like, she went to college and she's like a realtor. And she makes her husband, he builds houses home. So, they kind of like join and make a lot of good money and, you know, they're doing good. So, I think she's pretty happy with herself, with her life, you know. Mary got a kiss. You know, a good happy home, you know. When you guys first started putting together the first album, was it kind of established that you're the lead singer or was that kind of still up in the air? No, we actually, we were always singing. I always support somebody sung lead. That was our, you know, our thing that we thought made us different. We always came like, yo, all of us can sing. It's four girls and we all four of us sing because we would always find groups that came before us or, you know, some groups that we would be up against, that, you know, they have one or two singers, but it's five, four or five girls, you know.

16:42And we thought it was just unique that all of us could get up in front and do, you know, and sing lead. Right, when we look. So, never was like a, you know, no, like, it was just, we all, this is what we do. We, we switch and we set, we all sing lead. And then we started recording and, you know, the producers started just doing what they want to do, you know. It was out of my hands. Right, because when you look at the track record of all your big singles, you're on lead on most of them. Well, I'm on lead on some of them, but some of them not, you know. So, you know, it's okay, but, you know, I think everything was in divine order, you know, of how it was supposed to be. I guess the producers knew what they wanted. And, you know, we delivered. And, I mean, you know, things could have went different, but we're happy with what the way they went. Okay, so the first album, I'm coming at you. Has anyone else asked you that this is actually a lyric from a Cypress Hillsong from how I could just kill a man?

17:44Yes, we actually got soup for that. So, yeah, we knew about it afterwards because, you know, it was definitely your main idea. He always had this idea of what he wanted us to be like and, you know, look like. And, you know, so on and so on. So, he felt like, you know, us looking like little rappers and coming out singing. Like, we some was like going to be like a shocker, more so like, you know, make people be like, hang, I thought they were going to come out here and rap and they blow it. You know, so he came up with doing the humming, coming at you. And, anyway, we ended up getting soup for that and we had to pay up. Okay, by Cypress Hill or by Columbia? By Cypress Hill. Okay, because that song really has nothing to do with this game. Like, it's a song called How I Could Just Kill A Man. Yeah, but I mean, we used just the humming coming at you because that's the name of our album. Right.

18:44And the humming coming at you, what he meant by it is they singing and they coming at you. Like, they humming like hummingbirds and they sound and they coming at you. So, I get what he was coming from because that's all he really used is the humming coming at you. You know what I'm saying? That's all he really used. So, I get what he was thinking. He didn't, you know, wasn't necessarily what they were actually talking about though. Right, because in the song they're talking about a bullet being fired at somebody. Yeah, I get it. So, he used it for his own, you know, like what he wanted it to be for. Do you remember how much you guys had to pay up for that loss? I do not remember. I know we got sued a few times. So, I do not remember how much that one was. So, you come out with your debut album and there's always a lot of pressure when you have a brand new group, you know, people aren't really familiar with the various personalities in the songs. It comes out and it goes platinum? Yeah, definitely.

19:47I mean, a platinum album in your debut, like how did that feel? Because you were how old at the time? I was 17, I believe when I first dropped. You were a 17-year-old teenager. Was it still in high school? Yeah, it was in my last year. Last year, I think it was 93. Okay, mine in 93, yeah, 93, yeah. Were you still going to school as it was coming out? I'm just going to be real, which I never finished school because I started. I hated going to school. I'm just going to be honest. It was just hard for me to get to going to school. Once I got there, I was fine. But just kidding, to going, it was my issue. So once I started singing and doing my, like, knowing that I was, this is real. Like, I'm about to drop in there. I was kind of like, okay, I'm going to school, but I may, I don't know. And I just, once I went and they told me, because the problem is,

20:48I have been switching around school all my high school time, that when I switched from the last school, the school that I ended up at was like, well, you don't have enough credits right now because, you know, we don't credit the way they credit over there when you came from Georgetown. And I was just done like this. And I, that gave me, like, that made me feel like, I just didn't, I lost all hope. And I was just like, you know what? I'm about to drop a single in a minute, in one minute. And I didn't finish, you know. But I, I, I don't know, wish I would have finished, but I didn't, God bless me to be able to keep going and, you know, be able to, you know, take care of myself. Well, just kicking it was the big single off that album. Yes. Is that your, is that the biggest song to date? I, maybe, either that or maybe who can I run to?

21:52I don't know. Yeah, off the next album. Okay. But still, just kicking it was a huge single. But I know it was, for the longest years of my career, it was the biggest song, yes. And it still may be, but I don't know who kind of run to it's pretty like, it may be Nick and Nick. Well, here you are, 17 years old platinum album. Did that single go platinum? Yes. The single was that? The platinum single plus on that album you got understanding, level my mind, other, other big songs. You're a teenager and now suddenly you're, you're really like in the music business with a hit album and hit songs. Like, how does that feel at that age? I mean, it was amazing, you know, new for me. I felt like a superhero, I would not lie. I mean, you know, it was just, um, beyond what I could imagine the business would be like.

22:54I mean, it was great to be in the business because I wanted to be there. But it also was a lot, a lot of work, you know. And I think for us, you know, for escape, when we came out, we did so much work in our first year and we didn't really get paid. So it kind of like drained us, it kind of made us like, we felt, we appreciate it, you know, where we had made it to. But it felt like we have really, really worked hard for it, you know. I mean, you know, I don't know if a lot of other artists did the same, had the same, you know, same thing about, like, we did like work like night and day. All, like, all week long and not, you know, for free. But we did, we did a lot of it. It was like, oh, it's promotions. Promotion like, dang, when is we gonna get paid? Like, we want to make some money. Like, hey, we tired. Like, we want to go sleep one. So it's just like, it was well, you know, we felt like we worked for it. We worked hard. Well, there's a platinum album, but you guys are a brand new group.

23:56So usually those deals are not the best in the beginning. Yeah. And there's four members and there's managers and there's the label and everything else like that. Like, at what point do the money start to come? Was it a while? It was a while. And, you know, I mean, I say, like, we, to us, you're not used to making any money. Well, for a long time, like I said, we did so much promotion that we didn't make any money. It was a long time, but we really got to see real any money for real. I don't know how long I'd say at least a year. But I don't, I mean, you may need one of the other girls to tell you, but I say it was too long for me. And it's the reason why I say to, you know, a lot of artists, even my artists, I just tell them, like, it's imperative that we try to learn the business. So we'll know what we're dealing with as we're going. Because who knew who knows if we were really supposed to do so much promotion that we never got paid? We didn't, we don't even know how to check if the money was really flowing through our,

24:57it really was promotion. And so we had all the people working for us and they would tell us like, let us handle the business and you just be an artist. You see them saying, and we were like, yeah, they got us, you know? And I just think that it was not, it was just the dumbest thing to do. So, you know, we learned the hard way, but I, you know, I just, I think that's a big, that's imperative that you learn what's going on, what you're doing, what you're getting yourself into and why you're doing it. Well, right, because you got to understand that back then, you needed a major label to really have a chance to do anything. There was no YouTube, there was no SoundCloud, you could not really independently make any sort of mark back then. You needed that machine to really even make minimum wage. Right, you had to have it, it was, it's no other way. Yeah, so then the second album comes out off the hook. Yes. And that goes platinum again. Yes, yes.

25:57And who can I run twos on that album? Yes, who can I run twos on that album? Do you want twos on that album? Feel so good is on that album. Those are, those are singles on that album. I think run to the arms is on, you know, it might be on the third album, I don't know, getting mixed up. But anyway, it's my favorite album of all of album. Well, I mean, I, I think that who can I run twos probably, I mean, in my opinion, Escape's best song. Oh yeah, thank you, thank you. Well, I think in terms of a timeless song. Yeah. You know, just kicking it is dope. But I kind of feel like that's a, that's a record that was really, you know, it was that era. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it was really kind of personified that era, whereas who can I run twos or just a timeless ballad? Timeless ballad, yeah. I feel it, I'm with that too. I think, I think understanding also had its own moment with head,

26:58like it touched a lot of people, you know what I'm saying? So understanding, but that was on our first album. So it was another big song coming after just kicking it over the another, like, uh, yeah, okay, they really got telling it, you know. Right. And organized noise actually did one of the tracks on that album. Yes, they, um, organized noise did tonight. And another song on the album as well. I think, uh, understanding was done by Jermaine and the manual Lewis. Mm hmm. And that was right around the same time the waterfalls came out by, uh, TLC, which they produced. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So they were, they were on fire at that point. They were, they're some good producers. They were good. Okay. Uh, now, the album comes out in 1995. A couple of years later, uh, Biggie starts to blow up. Uh, well, Biggie had already blown up and did really well.

27:59And there was that song, Dreams, where he dist you guys. Right. And here we go in 1997. There's this huge vibe party in LA. And Biggie is there. Yeah. And from what I understand, he tried to approach you guys to apologize. So he did. And, um, so, so there was a couple of times after the dream song that we had a couple shows and he would be, you know, Jermaine would be like, yo, uh, Biggie wants to see y'all. He wants to talk to y'all. And, you know, some of the girls was like, no, I don't remember, you know, I just remember it's not really wanted to deal with him like, we don't want to talk to him. But, man, you know, and then, you know, at the vibe party, um, he was there. And someone came to, you can want to speak to, speak to us. And, um, uh, Ken, it was like, I'm not going over there. I don't want to, I don't want to talk to him. And I was just like, all right, I'll go over there. So I went.

28:59And, um, he basically apologized and said he was, you know, he apologized for saying it. And he thought we were beautiful. And then, um, you know, he was just like, you know, he was just, he was like, I'm ugly more fucking. I ain't had no business talking about nobody, you know. And, and we laughed and he gave it, you know, we hugged or whatever. And it was all good. And then, you know. Well, yeah. And then, what maybe 30 minutes later, he gets murdered. Like, it was crazy. So, you know, and I just know for Ken, she was like, name. I should have said something. Right. I mean, when you heard that news, considering you had just talked to him like right before, like, how did you feel? Well, it was crazy. It was like so real. Like, so, you know, just trying to like, I just felt like I was just glad that I got a chance to like even say anything and speak to him, you know. We got a chance to talk. And, you know, he got a chance to tell me how he felt. He apologized and it went and went all good.

30:00Well, right. Because Jermaine DePri had been working with him, right? Because the brat showed up on that song with him. Right. Him and Jermaine were always still friends. They were cool, you know. And Jermaine would always try to get us to try to talk to him. You know, he'd be like, you know, he wants to talk to y'all. He loves y'all music. And we're like, no. And so, you know, that's how it happened. And that happened for years. And then we got to see him at the back party. Yeah. Rest in peace. One of the greatest ever, even to this day. Okay. So, the next album. Traces of my lipstick. Traces of my lipstick. And that had the arms of the one who loves me. Yes. You like that song? The arms of the one who loves you. I just love the fact that we got to work with Diane Warren. I mean, like, she's the mega songwriter. And she was writing songs for all the major artists at the time. And we wanted to be a part of that.

31:00And we finally got to work with her. It was just amazing time. But we really felt like we were growing. Like, we had really made it at this point. President Barack Obama. Virginia, we are counting on you. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to raid the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years. But you can stop them by voting yes by April 21st. Help put our elections back on a level playing field and let voters decide not politicians. Vote yes by April 21st. Paid for by Virginians for fair elections. Life lock. How can I help? The IRS said I filed my return. But I haven't. One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry. I can fix this. Life lock fixes identity theft guaranteed and gets your money back with up to $3 million in coverage. I'm so relieved. No problem.

32:00I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast term supply. Right. Babyface. Did some production on it? Yes. Yes. Key sweat as well. Oh. Key sweat was on... Yes, he was. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? Yeah, but he's definitely on that. He did am I dreaming? Yes, am I dreaming? So this album goes platinum once again. You guys are three for three. Yeah. Three for three. Yeah. This album took us a little minute to go platinum because we kind of broke up in the middle and right at the beginning of this album coming out. So we had to find a way to get back on the road to kind of promote this album, even though we were no longer together as a force.

33:00And so what we did was we ended up just trying to get back together in different ways, you know, different times with different members and going out there doing promotion, different places and getting that album to a million sales. So, and we did. Well, I mean, Escape ended up selling seven million albums worldwide. You guys have three platinum albums in a row, a bunch of big songs. Why on earth would you guys decide to break up at that point? I think it was a lot of ego involved. It was a lot of people from not just us four that's outside of us that have, you know, their input and their say and it just kind of just turned into a big, you know. And then also we had like little small issues from the, from early on in the days that kind of escalated,

34:00never got resolved and just blew up into this big, like I don't like you, I can't stand you type of thing. And it just got hard to keep it together to come to work. Like you started feeling like, you know, just a drag just to be there. Nobody like, nobody really wants to be around each other. I mean, not, I won't say out of all of us, you know, maybe one or two don't want to see each other or, you know, one don't want to see all three of us or, you know, it was just different. It was just too much. And it started getting forced. I mean, was there ever any real drama like a fist fighter or something that's going crazy? Well, we only had really two, two fights. Like me and Candy had a little slap. You know what I'm saying? A little quickie, you know what I'm saying? And I was pregnant, so you know, wasn't that bad, but we did have like a little slap here now, you know.

35:01We got into a loop. And then Tasha and Candy finally got into a fight as well. And it just seemed like it was a long overdue time because they were always kind of back and forth or back and forth. And then finally escalated into a real fight. And I just remember us rehearsing. I don't remember what we were rehearsing for, but that rehearsal hall was turned upside down. Okay. Okay, just a full blown fist fight. Yeah, definitely. Okay, who won from your upper's face? I will not tell you that you would have to find out in the movie. In the movie, okay. Yes. Okay, so now you guys break up. And everyone kind of does their sort of solo thing to a certain degree. You end up kind of focusing on the writing. Yes. And in 2000, a couple of years after you guys break up,

36:03that's when no scrubs come together. Yes. And I mean, TLC was already on fire by this point, just completely, completely on fire. I mean, weren't they like breaking records for like the biggest selling like all female group or something of that sort by that time? They definitely were. They definitely were. I mean, TLC at that time did not be stopped. Everything they was touching was on the fire. Literally, you know? So, yeah. I mean, it was a major move from me and Candy to even being able to place a song with TLC. We initially was writing that song for our own. We were going to become a two-man group because the group was broke up. So it was going to be called Candy and Tiny, K-80. And we were making all kinds of different songs. And no scrubs, one of the songs we made out of the 15 other nasty songs we were making.

37:07Me and Candy has some very nasty music. When I think about it, it's like, what were we thinking? But anyway, no scrubs was one of the songs that we wrote. And we really like, yo, this is a hit, you know? And when somehow, Tony Mercedes got a hold of it and took it to LA now, and it just got out of hand and it came back like, yo, TLC wants this song. And we're like, no, you know what I'm saying? And they're like, what do you mean? Shakespeare's like, what do you mean? TLC wants this song. And for a minute, we just was like, no, we are going to do this song. This song is for us. And then we thought about like, we trippered. TLC wants this song. So we gave TLC the song and it was the best thing we could ever do. I mean, I remember that came out. Men hated that song. I know. But then, the men when it made a song called No Pigeons.

38:08And it was the best thing they could have done because we got paid from that tip. So, you know, yes, we love this. Right. Because when I was looking up, you know, researching you, you want an ASCAP RAP Award for No Pigeons? Yeah. Yeah, we did. Because they sampled you? Because I forget. Okay. But you didn't actually write on that song. It was because they sampled you, right? Yes. Because they sampled this. Right. Right. And No Pigeons was like the men's reply, you know? Yes. Like, basically, Yakona scrubs, we're going to call you all pigeons. Pretty much. Pretty much. Pretty much. And then, later on, you know, you fast forward a few years. Ed Sheeran has a song, Shape of You, which ends up becoming a massive worldwide smash. Yes. And people start commenting saying, hey, this song kind of sounds like No Scrubs a little bit. Yes. I mean, like I said, the song No Scrubs just keeps on blessing us and blessing us.

39:10And this song may bless us for the rest of our life. Who knows? But, you know, it just keeps coming around for us. And, you know, we just, like I said, we couldn't pick the better thing to do is get this song to T.O.C. Right. And I changed it. Yeah. And what's actually kind of ironic, now that I really think about it, was there was this monumental lawsuit over Ferrell, Robin Thick, and T.I. song, Blurred Lines. Right. Yeah. Up until that point, you can make a song that kind of sounded like another song. And you can get away with it. Right. But then when Blurred Lines came out, the state of Marvin Gaye said, uh-uh. We're going to sue you over, over this sound, this song sounding similar to a Marvin Gaye song. And they won. Mm-hmm. Like a $5 million lawsuit. Now, T.I. had nothing to do with it.

40:10He's just rapping on the song, right? He didn't compose the music, so he didn't take that hit. But, from what I understand, that lawsuit set a precedent in the music industry, which is why people like Ed Sheeran would just churn around and say, okay, I'm just going to give writing credit to Tiny before she ends up suing me and ends up doing the same thing over like the Blurred Lines lawsuit. Is that a fair sort of assessment? I mean, I think it is, you know, because, you know, people, if they feel like their work is being used, then of course they're going to want something. And I just think if you want to use it, then just pay for it. You know what I'm saying? And it's just, everybody's happy. You end up dating T.I. in 2001. Um, by that time, you had how many children? I had, uh, one child when I started dating him. Uh, well, we have seven kids and all. Me and him end up having four kids together. Right.

41:11Yeah, four kids, but one, one was still born. So we have three living kids together that we had together. And then we have, uh, his three kids and my other daughter. So seven. Okay. So yeah, in 2007, uh, you had a child that was still born. I guess it was six months in. Yes. And that was the first child that you guys were supposed to have together? That was our second child. Our second child. Okay. Uh, how devastating was that whole incident? Very devastating. It was probably like my saddest moment in my life. Like, you know, when I was in my darkest time, because I'm never, I'm always pretty upbeat. I don't really have a lot of times where I'm like down and I'm just like, you know, feeling depressed or whatever. I don't really have those moments that much. Thank God, you know, I've had it here and there. But that was the most I've ever been like out of it for weeks and weeks and weeks at a time.

42:17Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of women go through, through miscarriages. But I'm still born. I can't even imagine. Yeah. Like, I was just like, you know, the thought of going home, having a baby, but not going home with a baby. Like, that is traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Thank you. Well, you know, by 2005, Escape had been broken up for a while. But then you guys tried to reunite and do a fourth album, Unchained? Yeah, Unchained. But that didn't really work out according to plan. No, it didn't work out. We didn't have our business wasn't together, you know, which is a long time problem for Escape, you know. And just wasn't like worth, you know, it was my relationship was very rocky for me trying to go out and pursue this.

43:19That wasn't even together, you know what I'm saying? And I gave it a go because I felt like it's worth a shot, you know. I would love to do this. And because the business wasn't together, things were going so everything was going so wrong. I just gave it up kind of like, I can't, you know, I kind of want to go back and get my relationship back because this is going to heal. And this is a part of my, you know, so I just, it just stopped moving. You know, I think all the pieces were crumbling down together. So was that pretty much the end of Escape at that point? Yeah, for me it was because I felt like, well, we tried it, you know, and I gave it a go. I put a lot of strain on my relationship for it and it didn't work. And I didn't feel like I would want to try that anymore. I was kind of like happy when I kind of had a, you know, been put at my feet.

44:19So I kind of felt like, why am I, you know, going to stress it if it's not going to ever get together and be totally, you know, 100%. I mean, you guys had a great run. We really did. And it was exciting. And I felt like, you know, it was worth it. Like it was something that we love, you know. But at that time when we did not unchain, we didn't have, it wasn't, you know, candy wasn't there. And it was, you know, the business wasn't together. So it just wasn't like real, it didn't seem the same. Well, by 2011, you guys decided to do the reality show with the family, the family hustle. You know, with the track record of reality shows, you know, a lot of times you see, you know, couples like Hulk Hogan and his wife happily married for 100 years. Then they do a reality show and then next thing, you know, they're divorcing and, you know, his wife is dating an 18 year old. And it just ends up being somewhat of a mess.

45:20You know, but you're actually exactly producing this show. So did you feel like having your hands in that part of the business would prevent that? Well, I mean, I know that it was a big issue in my household because we spoke about it, you know. First, you know, first of all, in 2009, I did my first reality show, which was Tiny and Toya, with me and just Toya, you know, Toya Wright, which is Lil Wayne's baby mother, and ex-wife at the time. And so we did our show, it was very successful. And it brought on, you know, me trying to get TIP to let us do a family show and he wasn't really with it. And then, once he got out, I know he wanted to, I guess, you know, show his stuff. He was kind of like, you know, just a lot of bags, stigma. I want to show his stuff in a different light. And he kind of agreed to work with us and do it. But he was also, you know, that was his biggest thing.

46:20Like, everybody gets together and they break up, you know, you see all the couples and the Bible Brown and Whitney and this and that. And you know, and I got it, you know, and I was definitely afraid of that. And it did put some strain on our relationship. If you see him, you know, you know, we, you know, was about to divorce here and then breaking up here and there. But it also still brought us close to at the same time. And we're still like fighting it out. We're still here together, you know, at the end of the day. You know, you guys went on red table talk, you and T.I. To talk about how you guys almost got divorced. How stressful was that whole time? I mean, it was pretty stressful because, you know, I was going through what I was going through it, you know, within myself. But once I found, you know, everything becomes public record. And you know, you file, you want to deal with things privately. But at the same time, there's no way to be private in that, in that, you know, when you're dealing with celebrity couple and when they're trying to go through marital issues.

47:24And it just, it just put a lot of, you know, a lot of back and forth, a lot of, a lot more strain on just what we had going on. And for a while, it went on for a while, you know, and I think that it just made us see like what we were, you know, are we really ready to go that far or do we really want to fight? Like, like, what is it? You know what I'm saying? Is it worth fighting for? It kind of made us see what we had within each other. And if we really felt like it was worth it, you know, brought us back. Right. I remember on the show on red table talk, you said that you've never slept with anyone else and he said, I've never been dishonest with you. And it was sort of this kind of, people are trying to kind of decipher that whole thing. How did you take that statement? Period. Yeah. You know, I guess he meant what he says.

48:25What's really, you know, I mean, because you see so many, you know, so many couples getting divorced. And it seems like wasn't the timing of the divorce right after you guys had a baby? Yeah. Yeah. And that's when you usually see it. Like right after the baby comes and, you know, sometimes the woman goes through, you know, the postpartum depression. I don't know if you went through that or not, but a lot of women do. And suddenly you have this whole new situation. You know, you've got a newborn baby and there's all these responsibilities, even if you have nannies. Was that really the cause of triggering the divorce and then afterwards? I think for me, I did have postpartum depression, but not with Iris mainly with major. And I don't really know why. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't, I kind of wasn't used to ever having it. And then I caught myself like feeling like, oh, then you're really dealing with it. I, you know, I just feel like when you have a baby, I don't know what it is.

49:28It puts a lot of strain on the relationship. And especially after, I don't know what it is. And first like four or five months after, it's like, you know, I don't know what it is. But it's something that it is that I mean, maybe the woman is caring to the baby so much, the man needs attention. It's ridiculous, it's crazy, but something goes wrong in between that time of caring the baby and after you have the baby. And once you get back on your feet and you got your stuff together, you can kind of like maneuver. You know, everything starts to come forth circle for you, you know. And whether or not you're being with the father or not, you kind of got a grasp on how you're going to handle things and how you're going to move. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like after those first few months of after having heard whether or not I was dealing with him or not, once I got to the point where I could like move and do things, I was all right.

50:32At one point you got your eyes done. And people don't really understand what that is. So maybe can you explain? Because I had never heard of it before or after. I can't remember what year it was. It might have been 2013, 2014, somewhere in there. 2014, yeah. Okay, I went and got my eyes done. I went to Africa and basically I had been researching it for a while, like for years. I maybe like three, four years and I kind of forgot about it. I was researching it a while then I forgot about it and then something popped up and was like, what happened to that? I think, you know, and I just started like researching it, researching it, going through talking to the people over there, talking to the different doctors. Speaking to some of their clients and different things of that nature, but what it is is pretty much what they use to fix cataracts in the states. But over there they do it cosmetically. So it's the same material, same procedure, but it's just not done just just to fix your eyes.

51:33It's done too if you want to change your color. So when I went over there, like literally there was a hotel they put me in. And as soon as I walked in there, everybody in the hotel looked like they had just kind of surgery. Everybody had beautiful eyes over there and I'm like, oh my god, like looking around at all these people like, hey, so everybody's here to get their eyes done. It's crazy. And I met a lot of friends and I've still been trying to find these people. I don't know. I think maybe I had another email or something, but I met some people from Paris and just all over and I haven't been able to contact them. Because I don't know how to reach them, but yes, I wanted to keep up with them and just see how they were doing for a while I did. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo stash. Got paid back with the Venmo debit card, you can instantly access your balance and spend on what you want. Like game day snacks, gear, tickets, and more. The more you do, the more cash back you can earn.

52:34Plus there's no monthly fear minimum balance. Sign up now at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo master card is issued by the bank court bank NA select schools available. Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Max $100 cash back per month. America leads the world in medicine development. It matters. We get new medicines first, nearly three years faster. Five million Americans go to work because we make medicines here at home. And not relying on other countries keeps us safe. But China is racing to overtake us. Will we let them or will we choose to stay ahead? When America leads, America cures. Let's tell Washington to keep us in the lead. Learn how at AmericaCures.com. Pay for it by Farma. Okay, and you could get any color, you could get blue, brown, whatever. So they have like a chart full of colors. And at the time they had a brown. It was like a honey brown, but not like a hazel brown. You know, so they didn't have...

53:34And you know, I know the next year after I think they said they was getting like some hazel color and a green and hazel color. They was telling me, oh, we got new colors coming in. You know, because they'll tell you, you can switch them out. But I'm not doing all of that. I just went that one time and I'm good. Thank God, they did. You know, I was blessed to be able to. But honestly, when I came home, I checked my eyes so much. I went to the eye doctor like once every week, once every two weeks. Like just to check to make sure my pressure was good. So I just kept a hold of trying to make sure I didn't come to any problems without, you know, being quick on it. And thank God I just never was able... I had, you know, here and there, you know, your pressure might be up, but they give you something and bring it down. And I've never really had any issues other than... I don't have any issues now. I go to the doctor now and they're like, oh, everything's great. You know, your eyesight's the same as it was last time. You know, so everything's going good. Thank God.

54:34Well, Tiny, thank you so much for coming back. Congrats on the new show. Thank you. Making boss moves since we talked last time, six years ago. You know, still Mary's still putting out really positive imagery. You know, doing your own shows. A catalog that's timeless. You know, you'll be able to, you know, once the pandemic ends, you can go back to touring if that's what you want to do. Oh, thank God. Like those same hits from all those years ago. Which, you know, most artists can't do. Most artists can't, you know, they don't have songs that make it past that era. And what you do is, I mean, what you've done is you have timeless music that you continue, can't continue to tour off of and it still continues to get played to this day. I mean, you look at Spotify, which wasn't even around back then. You have millions of listens on this new platform. And this is our catalog. Right.

55:34Right. I mean, it was really dope for us to go on the world tour. Our first headlines, whoever. And we sold out everywhere we went. I mean, it was just amazing for us to be able to do that. So we was just, you know, on old music. So it's a blessing for a group to be loved and, you know, still respect it. Still people want to come see you. You know, do what you do on old music. Yep. Yep. Well, congrats on everything, Tiny. Thank you. Wish you all the best. Until next time. Thank you so much, you too. Peace.