Time Vampires on the Pool Route

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Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome to the Talking Pool's podcast with Steve and Wayne.

I hope everybody has had a past couple of weeks.

The good, you know, been healthy and safe and all that.

Steve has been traipsing off all over Europe for the past couple of weeks, so we'll get into that in a couple of minutes.

But I kind of want to start off with an apology and a retraction.

A couple of shows ago, Steve and I were talking about, you know, calculating pool gallons and things like that and how, you know, CPO teaches it mathematically and whatnot.

And we mentioned that there was a chemical way to determine the number of gallons in pool water.

And I said, yes, that came from Bob Lowry, the rest of the rest of the piece on us.

And I said, Bob originated it. Well, it turns out I was completely wrong.

You know, I'm a human being, we make mistakes, I made a mistake.

And it matters a fact, two good friends of mine in the industry.

Q hails and Kim Skinner actually came up with the formula to do it chemically back in 2019.

My deepest apologies to Q and a skim. We've already emailed each other and we talked about it.

And he knows this was coming through. He also mentioned it on his podcast.

But you know, when we make mistakes, we own up, we own up to it.

And again, my apologies to Q and Kim again, they are the originators of that formulation.

And we greatly appreciate everything that in skimmers have done and will continue to do with the industry.

Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

I'm Steve, like I said, has been traipsing over Europe on his honeymoon.

And you also might notice these a little more naked today.

10 usual. Yeah, the beard that he's had for how many years since like 2017, I think.

It's been a while. This is what Steve looked like the first time I've been in May back in the day.

But yeah, it's a little bit more naked, but that's okay. It's a good thing.

I'm sure it's coming back eventually. But.

Yeah, I just wanted to share. I wanted to shave it.

It's been a while and like to be honest with you because we work in an industry where I'm forced to be out in the sun.

And then with my hobby, I'm also out in the sun every day.

So I mean, the sun probably like over 300 days a year.

So Jen and I have talked about this before, but we're real serious about using sunscreen.

And we put on like multiple times a day and stuff.

But worse, we go to the dermatologist. And if you guys, if you listeners out there, if you haven't,

if you don't regularly go to the dermatologist, at least once a year, you should at least go just get a checkup

and just have them give you a once over. And it's a, I mean, it's a 30 minute thing.

It's that's not that much out of our day. We make a day out of it.

We go up to Santa Monica. We have some lunch. And uh, but the biggest thing is like, you know,

when you see something on your arm and it's like a birthmark or like a mole or something,

and you're like, oh, that's just like whatever. And then they look at it and they're like,

whoa, we need to take a sample of that. Then all of a sudden, you're like, wow, like.

I'm out of the age where, where I love my dermatologist.

And I've got those spots on my arms and the top of my head.

It's simply because of age. And back when I was was younger in teens and 20s,

then that's sunblock. You know, they had, um, uh,

a copper tone, sun tanning oil.

Oh, the Hawaiian traffic. The Hawaiian traffic.

Exactly. Hawaiian traffic. Oil.

And oh, I could remember the sunburns and sun poisoning.

I would get when, when I was younger wasn't pretty.

But you know, they didn't have anything like sunblock or if they did,

it wasn't really well now. Now it is. And I'm the same way.

If I go outside, I put on sun sun sunblock because, you know,

I don't want to get a bad situation even worse. And I see my dermatologist twice a year.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting anybody to go twice a year like us, but, um, that was,

that was my whole point. I'll just like, uh, that every once in a while,

you should at least go to a, you know, professional dermatologist I can look you over.

And because being in the sun, like, you can't see on your back or the back of your arm.

You know, sometimes like, uh, it's like in between your toes or like in between your fingers.

Yeah.

Weird, weird stuff. And I've had like stuff happen with a couple of my friends where they've

got into like weird situations and now they're like, whoa, like I've got melanoma

or like I've got this weird sort of cancer or whatever it was.

So just scary to find that out. So I actually shaved it, you know,

in advance of that appointment because that's in a couple weeks.

And I just wanted them to just see under there and just see if anything had changed

or because I can't see under there. I mean, my beard was like six inches long.

Right. And especially, you know, with men and women in our industry,

like you said, because you're outside a tremendous part of your day.

And whether you're in warmer climates, like where you are Steve or, you know,

I'm over in the Atlantic area or whether you're north.

If you sun exposure or sun exposure and like if you're up north and it's cold outside

and but it's bright and sunny, the sun's still going to hit you.

So it's still important to wear sunscreen.

So, you know, the biggest news.

The biggest thing for the American Dermatology Association.

Yeah, right. So, but no, for me, like the days, when I used to do, you know,

15 to 20 pools a day, the days here are long, right?

So when you start out in the morning, like it might be still dark out.

Or here, it's mostly cloudy in the morning, most of the times.

So it's easy to just like forget to put on the sunscreen and then,

or you put it on the first thing in the morning.

And now you're like blowing your nose and wiping your face.

And like, you know, now it's two in the afternoon and it's like super hot out.

And like, you haven't put sunscreen on since like 6 a.m. or whatever.

Yep. So, yeah, we'll try and get some, some sun bomb sponsorships as we go along.

Well, yeah, I did just get back actually last night from my,

from it was actually my honeymoon that we went on.

So we have a couple of friends that are in Switzerland.

So we spent like about 10 days in Switzerland with them.

And they took us all throughout like Zurig.

And then we went to Lucerne on a day trip.

And just had a really, really awesome time doing that.

They actually took us kite, kite, snowkiding.

Yeah.

We went to St. Moritz.

We're all like the, the bougie people in Europe.

And I mean, like the town was just like, we were like walking through the town.

And I was like, I can't afford to go into any of these shops like Jesus.

It was like very, very, very affluent area.

Obviously, like not just, you know, in Europe but in the world.

But the skiing was, was super cool.

It was fun. It was a lot warmer than they had anticipated.

So like everybody there, like I'm thinking it's freezing because like this is like

mid-Atlantic winter weather.

And they're like, oh my god.

This is so, this is so hot and sunny out, you know.

Teaser skiing.

Yeah, exactly.

And then then we went to Jen wanted to go see the Northern Lights.

And I'm also, my mom is Norwegian.

So I have some Norwegian descent in me.

So I've always wanted to, on my bucket list, go to Norway.

So we went to Norway to go chase the Northern Lights.

And the first night we went, we weren't super successful.

We were in the car for like six hours, seven hours.

We did get to see it, but like only really on the phone.

So like it's kind of crazy.

You look at like these clouds that just look like gas clouds.

And then you put your phone up to it and like it's boom, it's green, you know.

But in my mind, I was like, I thought you were able to see it with your, you know, your naked eye.

Yeah.

Which you can if the storm, you know, if the solar storm is big enough, more the activity is enough.

And we went another night because we had book two nights hoping that we would see them both nights.

And the second night, we only had to drive like an hour outside of the city.

And so within 90 minutes, he was like, all right, he's like, it's going to be on.

And like all of a sudden, like behind like this little town, like it just, just like shot up.

And it was like just this green spout.

I mean, I know I've said sent you some of the pictures.

Right.

And I'm going to be sure to post them online.

But it was like one of the craziest things that I'd ever seen because it was like an actual,

if you like close your eyes and you open them up again, like it would be something different.

Like it was, it was totally just moving into, you know, that's why they say like the, you know, the dancing Aurora, right?

Right, right.

And dancing.

So that was pretty, uh, pretty awesome.

I don't know if I would go to Trumzo again, which is where we were, which is above the Northern, um, the Arctic Circle.

I probably would like, if we go with my parents or something like that, I'd probably take them on like a cruise

and we'd go to like Bergen and then like Oslo and, you know, those, and the Southern places.

Because it was really remote where we were.

But it was really beautiful.

And I had a, I had a really awesome time.

You know, recommends both of those places for everybody.

But it's not a trip that you're just taken, right?

It's one of those ones that it's like, uh, we planned for it for over a year.

I was saved for it for over a year.

Uh, so because Norwayans are, uh, definitely not that two of the cheaper places in the, in the world, for sure.

Yeah.

My, uh, I've mentioned to you earlier, my son is getting married this, this thing of expensive.

Speaking of expensive, speaking of very, uh, expenses.

And they're not going on a honeymoon per se right away.

They are going to the Dominican Republic for like four or five days.

Just to kind of fall back, regroup kind of deal.

And then they, they were actually talking about going to Japan or New Zealand.

Um, it's like, oh, wow, well, you got the money to do that, I guess.

But, uh, New Zealand, I'd like, I'd say you want to go there.

Beautiful people, beautiful country.

Just had a great time.

I mean, I'm sure Shane has an extra machine.

You don't have to add him over there for us, buddy.

Yeah, that's right.

You're looking for our invite.

We're looking for our invite to Auckland.

That's right.

Um, no, New Zealand is super cool.

But what's crazy about Japan is like, you know, I have a lot of friends that are into winter sports.

Obviously super active.

Um, and a lot of it, a lot of them do skiing and snowboarding.

Like if you're going to go day for day and you're going to pay the day of and not buy like a season pass,

it is actually cheaper to fly to Japan and go to one of the mountains there.

Then it would be to drive up to mammoth in California, which is like a six, seven hour drive from where I'm at in Los Angeles.

Um, and buy tickets there or go to Colorado and buy tickets there because it's here are like a 230, 300 dollars sometimes a day.

For one day of skiing from like seven, you know, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Well, it's like the Disney World, too.

It's cheaper, the fly to Japan, go to Disneyland in Tokyo and come back for like a week,

then it is to spend a few days down in Orlando.

You Orlando wanted super.

I mean, it's super expensive.

Um, I live 25 minutes from Anaheim.

So I'm pretty close to to Disneyland.

Um, they have like these cool deals that you could get like season passes and stuff if you're like a local and you live in Southern California.

I'm not a Disney World or Disney Lines person.

So I'm not going to be doing that.

But, um, one of my not buddies, but a guy that I work with for a long time in New Jersey.

He, uh, actually came out as Ant lives in Beverly Hills.

And he was like, yeah, it's cheaper for me to fly out and stay with her and go on a couple day trips to Disneyland.

Then it is for us to go to Florida.

Yes.

It's wild.

So I do want to.

You've got a couple things to talk about.

Hey there, bullpose, it's Thursday again.

Wayne and Steve are here.

Let the knowledge begin.

Steve surf in the skies chasing that thrill.

Kite in the wind, buddies, master in the drill.

Thursdays with Wayne and Steve dropping knowledge bombs.

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From chemistry tips to repairs that impressed.

Making cool, care easier.

Helping you progress.

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He knows how to win.

Thursdays with Wayne and Steve dropping knowledge bombs.

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From chemistry tips to repairs that impressed.

Making cool, care easier.

Helping you progress.

Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of The Insurance Interlude with your host, Steve Sherwood,

from Talking Pools on Thursday.

And my guest, as always, Pack Rignon from California Pool Association.

So Pat, thanks so much.

Last couple of interludes have been seriously insightful, especially for me.

And I've gotten some great feedback from the listeners that they really like the topics that we've been talking about.

And like I said, we, some of the stuff, most of the stuff that I talk about in the shows,

you know, more than likely, it's either happened to me or like I directly have knowledge of it

because I don't like to speak on stuff that I don't have direct knowledge on.

And I, the truth of the matter is, is like I'm not looking to mentor people by any means.

But it so happens that a lot of people that come through the CPO class are like just starting out in the industry

and like they start listening to the podcast and they start reaching out to me with questions.

And like I always tell all the students, if you took my CPO class, that you're my student for life.

And you know, if you ever have any questions or anything like that, hit me up.

And I wanted to shout out Andrew from backyard solutions because he took the CPO with me.

He took the LA County prep course with me.

And now he's, you know, licensed to do his stuff in Southern California and he's doing a great business.

And he reaches out to me a lot for, for different questions and stuff.

Just like I've reached out to, to you, Pat, because you're a mentor of mine in the insurance industry.

He reached out to me the other day about something that I'm super wary about now.

And that's acid washes.

So his question was like, hey, you know, I got a pool that I have to do a bit on and they want to do an acid wash.

I've been watching videos on YouTube, but like I've never really done one before.

I know that you've done, you know, hundreds of them.

Could you come and teach me how to do acid washes?

So I want to talk about, you know, first I want, there's a lot that you have to talk, can talk about with this Pat.

So I want to talk a lot about like what the downside of what could happen.

But like I used to do a lot of acid washes, man.

And it was something especially on the East Coast where like you couldn't afford to resurface the pool this year.

But like your pool is only open for two and a quarter months or three months.

So like we could acid wash the pool to get through that season.

And like boom, the new budget hits and you guys can do this next year.

Here in California, man, I don't really see the upside in doing acid washes too much anymore.

And the reason being is like I've gotten a bit in the ass a couple times.

And like one time, you know, we did a really light acid wash and like the pebble tech started coming apart.

And the manufacturer and the distributor didn't stand on what they said.

And they actually said like, oh, the guy didn't buy his stuff here today.

So they can make up whatever they want.

But most of the time, if you mess up on an acid wash, it's something that you, they're going to say that you did.

So I politely declined.

I told him that like I would tell him more about it and teach him more about it if he wanted to.

But like I would never take on a job like that and send me some pictures.

So he sent me a picture and the pool was like fully brown.

It's, you know, hasn't been touched since the fire.

It's in the palisades.

And I was like, oh my god, I was like, no, like that's not.

I was like, you need to drain the pool first to even tell them if you could acid wash it.

You know, that's, that's the first thing.

Well, what are some of the things that companies out there that are doing acid washes?

They need to be worried of and they need to make sure that they're doing in pre-planning.

Because I had like a five minute conversation with him just on safety stuff.

I'm like getting organic vapor masks and the right booties and the right goggles

and wearing gloves and long sleeves and shit.

It's like all of a sudden before you, before you know it, like you're a couple hundred dollars into just safety equipment.

Just the gear, right?

Yeah.

And like I have a, I have like, it's called a drain and acid wash agreement.

So I want to talk a little bit about those a little bit.

But I even, I've even had someone where they signed that and then something went wrong.

And like they still threatened to sue me.

So I still had to take some sort of action and you know, redo their pool.

So the, unfortunately, what I found is if you do enough acid washes,

you're going to eat some of them at some point.

So the upside for me is just not there.

But I want, I want you to talk a lot because this is something that like for the first 15 years of us being in business.

I did acid washes all the time.

You know, so I thought it was safe.

And then I found out I'm like, this is kind of silly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, there's, there's a lot that can happen.

For honestly, there's, that's one of the more frequent claims that that we see is due to acid washing.

So I'll start with this.

A traditional general liability policy will not cover damage caused by an acid wash.

Okay.

So you need a rider for it?

Yeah.

So your, your policy does.

It's got more than enough to cover a replaster or whatever.

If you get me like, you give me the bells and whistle on them.

Yeah.

It's not the standard one.

So, but yeah.

Um, so just make sure you've got coverage for that before you start doing the work.

I would say, but outside of that, you mentioned, um, you know,

hold harnesses, you know, waivers that you have them sign like,

if you just think about what could happen.

So you mentioned two components to it.

Okay.

You're draining the pool.

Right.

So all sorts of bad stuff can happen with a drained pool.

Right.

I mean, if you start talking about, you know, water tables, especially in the southeast,

you get potential for pop pool or shifting.

Um, so there's that.

You got the potential of like somebody, you know, even a dog or a kid falling into,

you know, an empty pool.

And there's injuries that otherwise wouldn't have happened with, you know,

a pool filled with water.

So, yeah, I think, you know, in, in the whole harmless agreement,

you have a client sign before you drain the pool and do the acid wash.

It's just got to say, listen, there's inherent dangers to having a,

you know, a drained pool.

Um, you know, you got to have the thing roped off.

Some safety items.

Yada yada.

But like, you know, make sure you're, you're, you're, you know,

you understand you're responsible for the safety of letting people in your backyard

and something happening in the pool.

So we have an agreement, like kind of a stock agreement that someone can use

as a base and, you know, it's, it addresses something that you guys give away for free

or we have to buy it from you.

Yeah.

No, if anyone who's got a policy with us as a member of the association,

we'd be happy to give you a copy of it.

No problem.

Cool.

So all you got to do is just be insured by CPA and then you guys will share your agreement.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Cool.

So it's just a good based document.

And the second part of it is, you know, yeah, with the acid wash,

it's not going to, it's not going to fix all your problems.

A lot of times it, oh, what do you always say?

To look, makes it look great new, but a lot rougher and more beautiful.

Yeah.

So like, I think, I think they're the exact verbiage that I use in my hold harmless is like a

number one realistic expectations that like the best that it's going to look is a little bit cleaner

and probably feel a bit rougher.

Mm-hmm.

And like a lot of guys that do acid washes, like are you also doing the like buffing of the surface?

Afterwards, you know, because like there's going to be certain areas where you're going to take

off more, more plaster than there was, or there might be areas where like it's so thin

that now all of a sudden, like the concrete underneath is starting to like, you know, show, right?

But either way, that's going to be pretty rough.

And like, that's, it's like rough enough to like make a kid bleed or like, you know, make your,

make your, your bathing suit get all weird with what, you know what I mean?

Like where it gets like cut up almost.

Yeah.

So, there's just so many moving parts and components to it that like, you know, as I've

moved out into the different branches of what we do as a business, I've found things that were,

you know, just as much or more lucrative, way less risk.

You know, and that's just the damn truth of it.

And also, like, who wants to be outside, like throwing your attic acid around onto walls

and floors, you know, like you got, you have to use an organic vapor mask.

And then like, I'm so wary in California to drain pools fully and just leave them drained

because I was going to, I was while you were talking before, I was jumped in on you.

Have you ever seen a sump installed in California?

Like, and, you know, let's be on the same page here.

Everyone's from different parts of the country.

A sump.

There's two ways to build a main drain, right?

You could either have a two inch piece of pipe and it has a VGB cover on it.

And that's what they have here in California.

So there is no sump and what a sump is is, you know, it looks like the Mike Duncan donuts coffee cup here.

And it's long and it, you know, it tapers down and it's thinner at the bottom.

And where the, you know, the lid is, this is where the VGB cover goes.

And it doesn't have direct suction.

It sucks from the side wall.

So there's like an inch and a half hole on the bottom inside of the cup here.

And it actually has direct suction from there.

But usually there's like a female cut out in the bottom that has threaded pieces.

And that's where the hydrostatic relief valve goes.

And as a guy that grew up in New Jersey and did swimming pools in New Jersey,

every fucking pool had a hydrostatic relief.

Like you were draining a pool and you would like come back and the pool would be like a quarter full the next day.

And like it would allow, you know, twigs and pebbles and leaves and stuff.

And then I've drained pools and filled them back up.

And I come back the next day and the pool is halfway full because it got stuck.

It like, you know, a little pebble or rough cut stuck in there.

You know, because like it went to go close back down and it closed down on something because it's letting in groundwater.

So that's the scariest thing for me living here in California because most of the builders and those sums aren't cheap.

You know, they're, they like almost triple the cost of the material that you have to use down in the in the main drains there.

You know, you're not buying a $30, $40 cover anymore.

You're buying two sums and you're hydraulically balancing them and you're making them three feet apart center to center further than three feet apart center to center.

So there's just a lot that goes into it.

So in some parting notes with this, Pat, other than don't fucking do it.

What, what is the best way that you could be safe and still do acid washes?

Yeah, I mean, and then look, yeah, it's funny.

We've actually seen two pop pools here in California, one in up in the Napa area and one that was more towards the Bay Area.

But you just don't see it very often.

But we still have seen a couple of them.

So what, what was it, though, because that's Napa is obviously not at sea level.

Yeah, no water tables, nothing.

Right.

There's no, and that's on in the southeast.

That's what you're worried about.

You're worried about the water table rising and the pressure underneath the pool and one gallon of waterways 8.33 pounds.

So you don't have that weight holding that pool in the ground anymore.

Yeah.

And the pressure builds up and it actually pops the pool out of the ground.

What was, how did it happen with this?

It was a big rain for about a week.

Rain like cats and dogs up there.

And so I don't know exactly exactly how it caused it, but it rained hard for a week and that's fairly uncommon.

And yeah, that's ultimately was the root of both of them.

There's just bad storms and, you know, however, however the water got, got, got down there and, you know, caused it to become unstable and popped up.

And, yeah, to get poor guy was just, he was doing an acid wash too on this one in Napa.

It just was like, he called me, he's like, Pat, I don't know what the hell to do with this.

I've never even heard of this happening before.

You know, normally if a pool is going to pop out in California, it's an earthquake and it's an earthquake's problem.

But, you know, outside of that, yeah, I mean, look, at the end of the day, it's a common thing.

I think a couple of things to keep in mind is like, who's your audience, right?

Who's your client?

So the ones that I've seen that are kind of trying to play games like, if it's a commercial pool, yeah, we've seen, you know, hey, my, my small kid scuffed up and made the bottom of their feet bleed by being in the commercial pool.

And that's more like injury lawsuit stuff.

Like they're going big most of the time.

They're like, oh, it's a hotel.

I can get money out of these guys.

From a residential, it's more like the ones that I've seen that are, you know, if he is, they're trying to get a free, you know, a plaster tech job out of you, right?

I mean, you know, they're just, yeah, acid wash it.

And then it's like, oh, this thing's all scuffed up.

It's really rough.

Who's fixing this now, sir?

Exactly.

And so, look, you know, you can re-plaster a pool or do some refinishing it, you know, it's nothing like an injury claim.

But, you know, I'm always kind of thinking like, all right, this were a bad guy.

I try to live by the golden rule. I try to get people to benefit of the doubt.

But if this were someone who's like kind of using me to get to get something, what would they be looking for?

And, you know, I just, I try to make sure my forms and my documentation are in line for, you know, kind of the audience and my client and what, what I expect.

I had all my ducks in a row and I still ate two of them, you know, because I wanted to do good business.

And I was like, you know what, like the manufacturer isn't standing behind me and they should be.

And I was like, I'm going to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

And I split the plaster with the, with the client.

Yeah.

You know, and I told them, I told them exactly what it cost.

I told them exactly what we were going to split.

And I was fairing on us with them and he appreciated it.

And I mean, besides the fact, him and his wife were both lawyers.

So it was an easy, it was an easy, it was an easy fix for me, man.

I was like, that's just, let's just get this done.

However, we need to get this done, you know, but you eat what you eat one or two of those.

And I have a pretty sour taste in my mouth as far as acid washing goes.

So again, Andrew, thanks for the topic today.

We really appreciate it.

It was a great one.

But as far as like for me guys, I think that I'm retired from doing acid washes.

So yeah, that was a good one today, Pat.

I really appreciate you coming on and shining some light on some of the, you know,

some of the dirtier stuff that we do and some of the cleaner stuff that we do.

You're always given us some great insight on, you know, how to, how to play these different things that come up as we do our pools.

So if you guys want to check out insurance, California pool association has a great deal.

And if you mentioned to them the talking pools podcast, they will give you a one month off of your annual liability insurance policy, which is awesome.

And if you guys as always have any questions, you can reach out to us at talking pools at gmail.com and it will get to me.

And we will send you some cool swag if you make it onto the show.

So everybody have a great profitable, healthy, happy week.

And we'll be talking about you on the next one.

Thanks, Pat.

Thanks, Steve.

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Yeah, I just want to talk a little bit about clients again and this is just these are stories that just happened really what it is is like I would love to tell all of you guys that I took Jen and I took the whole vacation off and we didn't touch work at all.

That's not true. Jen basically worked every day a few hours and it's more because like there's there's you know we still have classes when we come back so like people are still signing up for classes and people still need books sent out and people needs.

Not that we were sending out the books from Europe but like you need to get that set up right like somebody's got to send out the books for you somebody's got to set these people up for class somebody needs to send them their welcome email.

I'm so on and so forth and then like inspections were still coming in so I needed to set those up for.

You know you don't want to come back from your vacation and have fucking three three weeks of no work right.

So he's still got to like set your pipeline up as your way right so I have these two clients that I'm at the same week last year during the fires and one of them I didn't realize because she was just stringing me along for so long she wanted a renovation quote I went out was like I can do a renovation quote for you or I can write.

And inspection report for your insurance company they were like no just the we just want to renovate I'm like okay so send them that don't get that then they want us to come out and bid on something else I bid on that we don't get that job so then she wants me to come out for weekly service when she's like you need to me you need to come yourself and meet the owner of the house and I was like normally I don't do that you know like normally I can figure out what I need to figure out on the phone I live really far from you like you know if it's if I if I have to come it's going to be.

I have to come it's going to be at my leisure and convenience it's probably going to be when I get back from my honeymoon and this was weeks ago that I was talking about so she hits me up on Friday which is like late Friday in Norway mid afternoon here and she's like hey something's wrong with the controller we're having people come over tomorrow for swimming in the afternoon like can you get someone here or can you help me on the phone and I'm like alright I'm like I'm out of dinner I'm like let me you know give me 30 minutes and I'll have a few minutes for you.

And I already fucking explained to her that I'm on my honeymoon like the fact that she's even asking me this is kind of crazy so I'm like okay cool like I'll you know I'll call you back so before I call her back like I start looking back through our our text messages and since last February I have over 45 text messages that we've went from me so over 80 back and forth but just over 40 from me of me explaining to her like how much it is or block or like questions that she had that I'm like answering for her and yada yada so I get the

summer dinner I call her and I'm like I'm not annoyed but like I'm like what the fuck is going on you know like hey like how can I how can I help you like I have a minute for you let me be helpful so she's like actually we fix the problem she's like it's just needed new batteries but she's like the pool still needs to be cleaned tomorrow she's like can you have someone come out and clean the pool before the you know before mid day tomorrow and there was just silence for and she was like you there and I was like yes I'm here and she was like you sound like you're annoyed and I was like I'm not annoyed

I was like I just like told you I'm on my honeymoon and you're not even my regular client and you're asking me if I can have someone come there on less than 12 hours notice on my end 24 hours notice on your head I was like you know I was like where I can't I can't make that happen

I was like even if you were my client on a Saturday I would still really have a hard time making that happen and like I didn't say this to her but like I would be like hey like we're going to charge you an emergency weekend visit rate

and like you know we're going to pay double and then we'll come out but like I was not interested in coming out at all right right so I just I got off the phone with her and I just the way that I felt inside I was like I'm getting taking advantage of here I was like

fuck this I texted her I was like I thought about it we're going to pass on this job thank you and best of luck okay so she's gone but like I wasted so much time talking to this lady she

thinks you're at her back and call all the time and there are certain clients that definitely do you know that when they call you and it's

just like how much do you give you know so I was just I want to talk about how that felt for a second but I felt like I was doing the right

thing like I should have I just cut the court earlier but like I got rid of right right another lady okay she also lives in the

Hallisates and she had me come out and she had me do the inspection report and she was like Steve she was like we got

everything that we needed from the insurance company she was like you were absolutely outstanding and she was like I'm in

like a WhatsApp group with like 1100 people and I'm going to is it okay that I send your email and and give you a

referral to these people and I was like oh my god like yeah like you can you cannot pay for that type of

fucking marketing okay and no joke like I've gotten at least at least 10 to 12 referrals from her I've had at least

five other people come on board her neighbor her neighbor came on board as like a weekly service client now like I cannot

tell you how fruitful this has been that I have met that I met this with this awesome lady and it's crazy because like she

actually pays her pool guy still and has us come as well she just feel bad for him so she's like actually just

continuing to pay him even though he doesn't really do anything is like a figurehead I guess but my whole point here is

that like it took me a year to get to this with the one lady and it took me a year to get to this with the

other lady but I would not have understood or maybe even gotten to the point with both of them if I did not

treat them the same so my point to you listeners out there is like when somebody calls you you never know who's

calling and you have to treat every single client like it's your last client ever and now do I recommend that you

let somebody string you along for a year you know what I mean like and don't get me wrongly like this lady

wasn't texting me every day like it was just 40 text message over a 14 month period right you know but like

so you haven't heard from somebody for a few weeks they ask you a question like you just answer it most

of the time you know so I just didn't think about it and maybe I should have before like pulled the plug

earlier but again like I have clients that are in that area like it's not like it was costing me

anything other than a few seconds of answering this question she wanted me to come out I just didn't

have the time to come out you know but again being able to you know work with your clients in a

certain way that lady reached out to me today the one that I really love feeling that's awesome

and she said hey I'm having a problem with my heater like you know you think you'd be able to have

someone come out and look at it and I called her and I was like hey like I'll have my service manager

come out and look at it but I was like I do remember that you know in your equipment pad area

there was like leaves all over the place like did you ever get wind up getting that cleaned up

and she was like no I didn't and I'm like okay well we'll fix the heater but like we're not

landscapers so if you could get your landscaper to go in there and get all those leaves out of there

that'd be amazing so now we could run your heater and she was like oh that's no problem at all

and I was like when did this happen she's like over the weekend and I'm like why didn't she

reach out to me and she's like I didn't want to bother you on the weekend she's like I would

never expect you to answer my call on the weekends yeah and I was just like you are the best client

that I have and if you need something on the weekend I was like you reach out to me and I will

get someone out there probably on the weekend or I will come myself you know and that's the type

if every client was like that my life would just be so special and easy but they all aren't like

that obviously we know but my whole point is that like you just have to treat everybody the same

and like you know the biggest thing is just you have to keep showing up and answering your phone

all the time is really really what it comes down to so I guess my question to you Wayne is you know

in your time in the industry were there any relationships that you made that were almost like

by accident or on a whim or you know something where if I didn't show up that day or I didn't answer

that email or that phone call like this would have never came to fruition yeah something like that

yeah it again because of what I did my the the situations are slightly different

sure as as you were talking I was I was thinking he's going to ask me this question I know this

I know this or I know you too well but okay let's go in our way back machine yes that's

the Peabody and Sherman reference for those of you of an age so this would have been the late 90s

or only 2000s things like that because we primarily sold through distribution okay the way we

set it up was that all of our distributors and at that point there was probably a good I'd say

let's say 80 distributors across the country and the world actually but let's say across the US

so to make it a level playing field we'd give our distributors the exact same discount

as every other distributor the only exception was the distributor that we had in Hawaii

because of the expense of shipping stuff out there we would ship it to LA and then then they

would do a freight forwarder from LA sir over there okay but everybody else and it wasn't really

that much of a difference but it was enough for but everybody else got the same discount not

going to tell you what it was but they just got the same discount every now and then I'd get a

call from a distributor from the same distributor in New York but we won't mention names who accused

us of showing favoritism and giving higher discounts to some distributors and lower discounts to

them and others and regardless of how many times over the years that that I would explain to him

no that's not how it runs and you know that's not how it runs this is this is how it runs still

hardly ever believe me I get the same call from them every year it's kind of like up it's February

I'm going to get the call that that kind of deal and then what would happen though is that if we had

distributors that didn't meet our requirements to maintain your your account at that level

it was my job to call them and say hey you know can you place an order by such and such a date so

that we can get you over certain limit and things like that and for the most part they were

completely understanding but every now and then you get you get a distributor you can never get a

hold of or the communication like you were describing was spotty like that okay they you'd

call them they'd call you back in four days or you'd send an email they wouldn't reply even

though you know they got it delivered and all and was read that kind of thing so it was a very

frustrating to try and and maintain that distributor level count because that's one of the things I

had to do and to show them the right way to to make sure that they stay as it's driven every year

now the big up the big multi-brains distributors never had a problem with it was the small independent

ones that you know you wouldn't make sense you might have an issue with and there were always

the distributors who were at the low end of annual sales that were required to maintain that

distributor account so invariably in November and December I'd got I would have 20 distributors I'd

needed to contact some way shape reform to get them to you know you want to do they do they do

that these are the grooves that are that are Robin Peter to pay for all probably you know

them like they're back on their you know the multi-level distributors that have they have so much

liquid cash sitting around you know they're private equity people right right we're forgetting that

like you know SCP they're they're they have a board yeah exactly you're doing like it's like a

it's not mom and pop shop by it by any means like it's not I wouldn't even call it a brick and

mortar you know it's it's more of like a conglomerate it's you know and that's once you get to that

level not that you can dictate your prices but you could also say you know if I came to you Wayne

and it wouldn't matter if you worked in test kits or if you made fucking grenades if if I came

to you if I came to you and I said can I buy a hundred thousand of these at once right and I'm

buying I'm buying you know 20 thousand at once I say hey like if I bought a hundred thousand of

these at once would you be able to give me a better price I don't know I don't know a person in

the world who would say of course if someone gonna buy more from you you're gonna give them more

of a discount absolutely and that's how it was with us supposed to work if you can buy more

product that once I'm gonna give you a bigger fucking discount well we won't we wouldn't necessarily

give them a discount no but you know what I mean but we would yeah we would lower the the each

price the unit price on products so that they got a little bit better deal but they're discount

would stay exact yeah no no their discount stays the same but that on that one bulk order right

you're getting them for X amount per piece instead of you know Z per piece yeah and that's just

the way that's just the way things work I mean if you and if you look at Amazon and you're buying

you know makeup remover and you're like I only need one bottle of makeup remover or one

bottle of nail polish remover right and then it's like but if you buy two it's 17% off if you buy

to and it's literally it's a drop down menu where they're like you sure you don't want to buy

17 at least I don't think I need 17 at least but but you get my point you know and that's not

the whole thing where like if you can buy more and that's why I try and buy my sand filters all at

once I try and buy them you know three times a year right because I know that like if I wait

and then now I can tell someone a price and I can be like I know what the price is it's this

you know with everything else I have to be like oh I'll get back to you and I'll let you know

because I'm not really sure I have to check with the distributor I mean we said it before but

like the pricing on everything is just it's going through the roof yeah yeah it's uh I don't know

it's it's one of those situations where you've got clients in your case and you it's not

picking choosing per se I mean it's a wrong phrase I'm looking for yours but you have to

establish at one point do you say no and and you have and you do okay and because you don't want

a client that hangs on and demands things and it's just a pain in the ass to work with whereas you've

got clients that are absolutely wonderful you know they would be like your relatives I'm pretty

I'm pretty lenient too like I I let people you know be who they're going to be and I know that

not everyone's going to talk to me the same right and like some people in their professional jobs

like they don't ever get told no you know what I mean like I've told you about the like the producer

before that calls me about as heater like twice a month at least and I'm just like if we just did

this two thousand dollar upgrade like before you left from Paris you could turn on your heater

and it would surely your pool and it would surely be heated by the time you got home tomorrow

but like he's just not willing to to spend the couple thousand dollars so I kind of when he calls me

I'm like okay I'm like just to remind you again like we could make we could skip this whole step of

you having to call me twice a month to turn on your heater but they don't they don't want to do it

yeah but he's it he's a you know I have two houses with him oh his like son is his house

is like the manager one time his son called me and was like hi like I'm the owner of blah blah blah

blah blah and I was like no you're not I was like you're Gary you know like you're you're Fred

like whatever the guy's name is and he was like no he's like I'm Fred Sun and I was like okay I'm like

so how can I help you you know I'm like because this is I've I've had your dad as a client for

three years and this is the first I'm hearing from you so and he was like oh he's like I have a new

property okay cool I'm like we should have started with that one we should have read that you know

but most of the clients are great most of the time you don't have to deal with them and I

think it more becomes a problem when like they're taking up your time and you feel like you you're

doing stuff and not getting paid for it right I don't mind yeah I don't mind helping you if

we're getting paid and like if we're doing a whole equipment set and you got a bunch of questions

and like you want to talk back and forth like I have no problem helping you out with that right you

know but like at some point you have to say like we've sent out three proposals we've never gotten

anything back from you on this like you know maybe you just go get somebody else and it's one of

the hardest things in business wing to say no because you you know you every year you want to grow

right and you're like you can only grow by bringing in new revenue so you either need to sell more

stuff to the clients that you have or you need to bring on more clients and bringing on you know

new clients is the hardest most stressful thing because it's like you most of the time you don't

know what you're gonna get from them and that site visit that you have you're getting like the

really nice lady on the first date you know what I mean like you're getting my first date attitude

you know where there is no attitude you're like this person so beautiful I like them you know what I

mean and then all of a sudden you start dating and you're like man like this person is great

crazy like well how did I get into this and I've gotten myself into that situation a few times

with a couple clients where it's just like I'm like oh no like I think that this might have been a

mistake and the whole thing is like you want to be able to part ways amicably so that's why like I

always even if me and a client have like kind of gotten into it and like but it horns a little bit

and like I've said some things not like I don't ever say anything crazy but like if you're giving

me an attitude I'm gonna be like excuse me no you know but have you want to burn your bridges

that's that's exactly my point right not burn a bridge but you would never want to like send a

text message that you wouldn't want someone to like put on your Google review page right right

you know and now they they they have a text message with your phone number attached to it that

you're calling them a blah blah blah you know so that's why I always try and make the last few

transmissions like hey you know thank you we appreciate your time we're gonna move in a different

direction I mean lie tell them that you're not servicing that area anymore you know what I mean

like just literally if you if you don't know what to tell a client and you need to get rid of them

just be like you know like we're downsizing and one of my guys left and we're not going to be able

to service that area anymore you know good luck in your new pool service search right it's really

what it comes down to you know because the the worst thing that you could do is is hold on to these

clients and like let them take advantage of you and now you know you're not telling them no ever

and now every week they're trying to get you out you know on a Sunday to their pool well gang I

think that's good for today as always we appreciate you listening and as always if you have any

thoughts ideas comments any tech questions for Steve or I please feel free to send them the talking

pools at gmail.com and they'll get routed to us and if we happen to use your whatever it is

on the air we'll go ahead and send you a nice little present we appreciate it very much Steve

glad to see you back home I'm gonna miss the growth but that's it yeah I'm sure it's coming back

yeah we'll bring it back I don't I don't like my face like this but we love your face like it is

so it's okay all right guys take care we'll see you all next week bye bye

I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you for listening today I'm hoping you enjoyed

the episode as much as we enjoyed putting it together for you listen it's been a couple of wacky

crazy screwed up years from pandemic to pool again and I just want you to know that we are all

in this together if there's anything that we can do for you send me an email at talking pools at gmail.com

again that's talking pools at gmail.com we're here this is your podcast we are the pool people's

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