The Vandals

0:00Ever wondered why the Romans were defeated in the Chutaburg forest? What secrets lie buried in prehistoric Ireland? Or what made Alexander truly great? With a subscription to History Hit, you can explore our ancient past alongside the world's leading historians and archaeologists. You'll also unlock hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a brand new release every single week covering everything from the ancient world to World War II. Let's visit historyhit.com slash subscribe. Hello, I hope you aren't doing well and welcome to this episode of The Ancient's. Now, the story of late antiquity, especially in Europe, is dominated by these various so-called barbarian groups that descend on parts of the Roman Empire, particularly in the

1:01Western Mediterranean. You've got groups like The Hunts, the Franks, the Goths, the Saxons in Britain, but you also have a group which are my personal favourites, The Vandals. The Vandals from which we get the name, you Vandals today. It's a group that descended from the Rhine in the early 5th century into the Roman Western Roman Empire, went through France down into Spain and ultimately created a kingdom in North Africa, think Monday, Tunisia, places like Carthage and so on, and who would ultimately go on to sack Rome in the mid-5th century AD. The story of the Vandals is a brilliant one. And we did an episode all about them three years ago now, at the end of 2023, when I headed up to Leicester, to interview one of the leading experts on the Vandals, their archaeology, their story, Dr. Andy Merrill's. Now this is a time you know, still quite early on in the ancient story, but I was very

2:05much wanting to get out there and interview experts in person, so I brought along my audio recording kit, headed over to Andy's house, and we did this episode all about the Vandals. I really do hope you enjoy. I'm glad that this episode is getting its time in the spotlight once again because it was one of my favorites from 2023 and I really do hope you enjoy it. Let's go. Andy, pleasure to have you on the podcast. Very happy to be here. And to talk all about the Vandals. Yup. Now, an extraordinary group of people who almost were the death knell for the Western Roman Empire and yet they fall into relative obscurity in more recent times. That's true. I think to a certain extent they've been overcome by the metaphor of their name in some ways that they're remembered if at all as being incredibly destructive, but in fact, lots of people are quite surprised to discover that the Vandals were in fact a group who existed in the fifth and sixth centuries rather than just being a bunch of people who smash up telephone kiosks and they're... And you mentioned fifth and sixth centuries, so they're rising there for you.

3:06Also, it's pretty quick in the scale of things. Yeah, relatively speaking. So the first accounts that we can really trust that we have of the Vandals date to the third or fourth centuries, there are one or two earlier references in some Roman and Greek sources from the first and second centuries, but they're just individual names among lots of names and it's not completely clear where exactly they lived or what exactly they're label referred to. So they first appear in a plausible way in the third or fourth centuries somewhere around the middle Danube region, so roughly what's now Hungary. And then they raised the prominence with the creation of a kingdom in North Africa, what's now Northern Tunisia. In the early fifth century, lasted for about a century and then more or less dropped off the map. So that's kind of also almost follow that route from Hungary all the way to North Africa. If we start in Hungary, so you say we've got these few references from those earlier centuries, doing no much about their origins, about them living in that area of the world. Not really. So most of the accounts that we have are Greek or Roman accounts, they've written from the perspective of the Roman Empire, talking about a whole range of different groups who

4:08are living all along that northern frontier of the empire. And there are lots of them. There are dozens of different barbarian names in these areas. It's really completely clear what form, what social or political forms of these groups took. They're obviously bound up with the Roman army in these regions and the presence of the Roman military. Along the frontier is also having a dramatic effect on the barbarian populations living there by. So lots of these groups are serving within the Roman army, either practically serving the Roman army or a kind of economically dependent on these large military populations in these regions. And the vandals who appear as that name or as a group called the Astingy, which is later on the royal dynasty of the vandals, the Hastings, or one name amongst lots in that kind of sphere. So is it almost like with the Goths and how they kind of divide up into their own different groups, the vandals is an overarching name for several different distinct groups in that area of the world? It's very hard to say. I think they're less important than the Goths. I think the Goths are an illustrative example of a group who turn out to be really important

5:10and probably are quite important in the world of the third and fourth centuries. The vandals are one of the many small groups who are perhaps hovering in their orbit and perhaps changing in that period as well. And cultural wise, obviously the Romans in the barbarian, but will we define them today as a Germanic culture? I mean, what do we kind of know about that? So Germanic is a term that refers to the groups of languages that they spoke rather than to the people's themselves. So they spoke an Eastern Germanic dialect. It would seem there's a lot that we don't know about Vandaleck as a language, but it's probably related to Gothic, which is an Eastern Germanic language. Culturally speaking is really hard to say. I mean, there are an Iron Age community living within this Roman military sphere, so profoundly effective by both of those traditions. It's probably the easiest thing to say. But one of the difficulties is that it's really hard to associate any of these dozens of barbarian names with a precise material, archaeological assemblage that we can pick up from the ground. So there are various different archaeologists working in Central Europe who've identified

6:12individual graves as being a Vandaleck grave, which is fair enough as one interpretation, but I don't think we can be at all confident that the individual who happens to be buried there would identify themselves as a Vandal, if that makes sense. Well, as I do, and you're mentioning that, of course, you know, at that time within the Roman occupation in that area of the world, doing no much about that interaction between Vandals and Roman soldiers who were living on that frontier of the Roman Empire in those earlier centuries. Not very much specifically at all. So we've got a decent picture of what's going on with the Roman military presence along the Frontiers in general terms and the degree to which barbarian federation is being incorporated within the Roman army in a range of different ways. We can't say very much at all about the Vandals specifically in that world. If anything, they're an incredibly minor player, I think it would be fair to say, until the beginning of the fifth century, really. They're kind of cropping up as one name amongst many in occasional lists of victories of Roman Amprers or incursions of barbarian groups, but that's about as far as it goes.

7:12And in some sense, as I think that's placed a bit of a problem for scholars wanting to trace the origins of the Vandals because they go on to become quite important and there's a strong temptation to assume they must have had glorious origins. So even early medieval historians, in fact, writing a hundred years or so after the fall of the Vandal Empire or the fall of the Vandal kingdom suggested the Vandals must have come from glorious origins in Scandinavia or something, as they suppose the Goths did as well. But I think that's possibly a kind of false bit of reasoning. And the same thing has sometimes happened with modern historians making the sort of similar claims of saying, these people became great so they must have always had this kind of glorious origin from somewhere. I think it's more interesting if it's the fact that actually in those earlier centuries they were one of the more insignificant peoples. And as you say, if the Romans did not consider them on the other level of some other perhaps tribes or peoples who lived in that area of the world, the you mentioned early fifth century beginning of the fifth century. What happens then that makes the Vandals almost go to the next level? So there's a crucial series of events that take place in the very first years of the

8:14fifth century. So in the 400s that are related to crises within the eastern and western halves of the Roman Empire, movements of troops around the western empire in particular in a succession of usurpations or rebellions within the western half of the empire. And this has a series of knock-on effects, the most famous and spectacular of which is the crossing of the river Rhine by a group of barbarians, including the Vandals, Swaves, here another barbarian group, and the improbably named Allens, here another barbarian group, all of who supposedly crossed the Rhine on New Year's Day 406 and come into northern Gaul, so the northern territories of what's now France. And there for three years, occupy that region, then move south across the Pyrenees in 409, and those three groups basically divide up Spain amongst themselves. Or that's the claim the one or two are chroniclers make. The crucial thing to remember here is they are having a dramatic effect on these regions, especially in southern Gaul and Spain which have never been particularly heavily militarized.

9:15So having armed groups of people wandering around can make a massive difference to a previously relatively peaceful region. But simultaneously you've also got various military power brokers, generalist emos, land lords who are deciding to go at a lone town to a deciding that they need protection from these other groups of rebels or usurpers or barbarians who are wandering around the place. So effectively the vandals, swaves and allens are finding a place for themselves in this fragmenting world. One of the really interesting things I think about this is even during this period where they're coming to the attention of writers from all over the Roman world. So Jerome, who's living in Bethlehem, Saint Jerome, guy who translates the Bible into Latin, living in Bethlehem at this time and is aware of the vandals making their appearance in Gaul in the 400s. So this is news that's going around the world. But even in this period, there's still not this dramatic fighting force that is winning entirely by force of arms. So we know of 10 historically attested battles that the vandals fought in from that kind

10:20of dim and distant third or fourth century past right through to the late four twenties. These aren't particularly well attested battles but we just hear of references to conflicts in the chronicles of the historians and so on. And of those ten battles, the vandals lose the first nine. So this is a world that's falling apart but being an armed group still gives you some power in that even if you're not necessarily winning your battle. And are the vandals are they losing their battles against what's left of the Western Roman Empire or is it against other groups that are now trying to make their mark in this area? Both of those things effectively. So they're still being influential but they are for the most part losing out in this kind of fight for supremacy to the degree actually that there is one fifth century writer, a Christian writer called Selvian of Marseille who refers to the vandals as being almost a byword for not being very good at fighting. And within 20 years that picture will dramatically change but at that point in this collapsing world when they're still quite well known they're still not overwhelmingly militarily successful.

11:22But this is not to underplay the fact that this is a large armed group of men and their followers who are moving around and creating a major bit of difference to the balance of social life in these regions. Well that's really interesting right there. I mean the whole, the nature of this vandal group that crossed the Rhine and then makes their way through Gaul and down into Spain. Should we just be imagining lots of young men warriors or mercenaries or was this more of a migration and the whole vandal people going west? This is a much debater topic. So different historians have different views on this. My view is that this is primarily best viewed as a relatively small war band which can include lots of followers coming along with them. But it's important to bear in mind that the period between the crossing of the Rhine in 406 and their eventual crossing into North Africa in the late four twenties is around about 25 years so it's getting on for a generation. So there is a significant churn in terms of the people involved. There are other historians who think that this is a more significant migration of population

12:26so we're actually looking at a big movement of people into Gaul and then into Spain. But actually in some ways I think both schools have thought agree that we're talking about a fairly similar order of magnitude of individuals here. The figure that's most frequently given is provided by two different primary sources for the number of people crossing from southern Spain into North Africa in the late four twenties and that's 80,000. And both of the sources say that this number is slightly exaggerated and it's not completely clear if they're talking about fighting men or everybody. It's generally accepted that it's probably everybody and that the total number of fighting men is somewhere around 15 or 20,000 which is a relatively small number in terms of migrating populations coming into North Africa which has a population of two or three million at this time. But that's still a relatively sized field army in the later Roman world. And again moving into non-militarized regions like southern Gaul or Spain or North Africa

13:28they can have a big effect. And also these regions. So they're moving into these regions as you say that are less protected but at the same time they are also some of the wealthiest regions of the Roman Empire too. So for the vandals this is almost a double win not much to fight against and also a lot to take advantage of. Absolutely and that's not coincidental. The way the Roman Empire had always been organized was to have the army parked up in the northern regions quite far away from the rich provinces and the rich provinces would effectively be feeding the hungry army through taxation which would be shipped northwards to the troops. But emperors were very keen to ensure that the bread basket to the Roman Empire areas like southern Spain and North Africa didn't have a large military presence. So if generals did decide to revolt they wouldn't be in the position to basically create their own little autonomous enclosures to clear themselves independent of Rome effectively. One other question on the vandals before kind of focusing on how they'd become so prominent

14:28in southern Spain. Do we know how they fought? Are we should we be imagining lots of horsemen or most people on the furt or do we not have that information available? There is one or two suggestions in the sources that the vandals depend on very heavily on the cavalry and the Allans who are one of the groups that they are allied with in 406 and we're actually the most important of the three groups as they came into Spain may have been a similar group to the Hunts and they may have originally been pastoralists, nomads from the Ukrainian steppe although it's not completely clear that this identity continued with them. But it's possible that cavalry was a significant part of the fighting force but we have very little information on the actual battles that the vandals were involved in. Fair enough. Land of Viking Longship on island shores scramble over the dunes of ancient Egypt and avoid the Poisoners' Cup in Renaissance florets. Each week on Echoes of History we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's Creed.

15:34We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series Chasing Shadows where samurai warlords and shinobi spies teach us the tactics and skills needed not only to survive but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed shadows or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week. Well you've got the vandals at that time in the 420s, not the late 420s yet but they're in, southern Spain how do they become so entrenched in this incredibly rich, wealthy area of the western Roman Empire? Well initially actually they get this short straw. The hasdings get the short straw when Spain is divided up between the various different

16:36groups and it's the islands who get the most important parts of Spain. And another group of vandals called the Siling Vandals get the rich territory of Biotica in the south. And in fact ironically it's because there's a group of Goths, of Visigoths who are sent by the western Roman Emperor into Spain to turf out these barbarians and the generalist successful in doing that that actually clears the path for the Hasdings, this small group of vandals who turn out to be this dominant group over the course of the century of the folos. And in effect they're able to occupy the vacuum that's left by the defeated Siling and Allens and then by the Visigoths as they move out of Spain again and are eventually settled in Akitane in southwestern France. So yet again the kind of Hasdings find themselves the happy inheritors of this really complicators kind of brownie and motion of military activity and revolt and alliance that dominates the history of the western Roman Empire in the early fifth century. And if southern Spain is such a fruitful part of the empire that they now have for themselves,

17:40it's as big a question why do they decide to then look across the straits of Gibraltar to North Africa when actually they've already got a really good place to live. That is a really interesting question and is not completely clear what the answer to that is. The simple answer is the southern Spain was really rich, North Africa was even richer. And that sounds quite unlikely to modern ears but actually the touches of Africa, Prokonsularis and New Midia say basically what's now northern Tunisia and northeastern Algeria were basically the richest part of the western Roman Empire. At the height of the imperial period they had survived quite well through the social and political crises of the third and fourth centuries and continued to produce this vast surplus and were extremely under militarized. To in some senses it seemed presumably like right fruit for the plucking. There was a small military presence there, there's a general called Boniface who through a variety of different political issues winds up falling out of favor with the ruling western emperor and some later historians suggest that Boniface recruited the vandals

18:45and brought them across to help in his revolt. This seems to me as a kind of retrospective, it's a later explanation for how the vandals managed to make it into North Africa in the first place. My answer would be that this is possibly partly opportunistic. North Africa is easier to defend than southern Spain perhaps. It's hard to know. And who is the figure who is leading the vandals at that point? The leader of the vandals at this point is a king called Geyseric. Here is the first king of the vandals that we know a lot about, we know a little bit about his brother, apparently the two of them rule together. But effectively he's ruling on his own from at some point in the mid-420s for basically another 50 years. He dies in 477 and over the course of that 50 year reign effectively fashions in North African kingdom for himself finds a position if you're like at the top table of western Roman politics in the middle of the 5th century and is certainly one of the most influential military and political figures of that time. And this is bearing mine. This is exactly the same time that Attila the Hun lived.

19:47We had a comparable influence on the unfolding of the western empire in that period. Yes, and it's interesting when you look at the Huns compared to the vandals you have one which is very prominent in our mindset today and the other which has fallen out a bit and it's the same with the Tilla and Geyseric and we'll talk more about Geyseric because come on let's delve into the details of the vandal conquest of North Africa because this isn't swift, it's bloody and it's brutal. It is bloody and it's brutal and it takes, yeah it does take a long time. So the first landing seems to have taken place in about 428 or 429. The chronicles disagree but it's possible that it took quite a long time and they moved their way from basically what's now the northern coast of Morocco along the northern Algerian coastline and into the rich territories of New Midia and Africa, besieging the city of Hippo Regis where the famous Bishop Augustin was on his deathbed and eventually receiving the city in a peace treaty with the Western Empire in 435 and Hippo became that first capital. There was a peace treaty at that point between Geyseric and the Emperor of Alentinian III

20:51which Geyseric seems to have broken, you move further east and captured Carthage in 439 and there's a capture of Carthage which is the sort of metropole the most important city by far in North Africa, one of the most important cities in the whole of the Roman Empire, certainly in the Western Roman Empire, that really marks the start of the Vandal Kingdom and in fact on later coins and documents Geyseric dated his reign from the capture of Carthage, not from his accession to power about 10 years earlier. So this really was the year 0 of the Vandal period. And we should also clarify this is a very aromain looking Carthage, this isn't any Phoenician influence of back in the Punic times when a thing like that. No, so the Phoenician city of Carthage had been destroyed at the end of the Third Punic War in 146 BC. So around about half a millennium earlier it was re-founded as a Roman city in 46 BC and then rose again to become an incredibly important centre for Roman trade and administration in what as I said became a very important economic part of the Roman Empire.

21:53So it was basically a Roman city, pretty cosmopolitan city and there were certainly populations in the region who was still speaking Punic languages, so the old languages of the Carthage and the Indians mixed with Latin, Greek, a range of other Libyan languages as well. And actually a lot of the population would have been kind of part of a floating mercantile population across the Mediterranean as a whole. And as a result of that there was a huge range of different religious practices, social practices, cultural practices which were apparent in Carthage and some of these other cities. It's always amazing to think how central and cosmopolitan and important cities like Carthage were at the time of in late antiquity at the time of the Western Roman Empire and the arrival of figures like Geyseric. You mentioned how following the fall of Carthage is almost year zero for the Vandal Kingdom. But how wrong does it take for the Vandals to almost kind of implement their own ways to kind of form the Kingdom to put their administration right there in the front? It sort of depends what you mean. It takes Geyseric a little while to establish his royal rule over North Africa.

22:57And partly this is because he's essentially overseeing a transformation of them from being a mobile warland warband or a migratory people depending on who you agree with, to being a settled elite within a kingdom. So where the elites have their own lands, where they have a fixed army, where they're collecting taxation and so on. That takes a little bit of time. And Geyseric sets about doing that by for example distributing some of the lands available to him to his Vandal followers, taking some land for himself and his sons and thereby kind of distinguishing the royal family from the other Vandals, the other aristocrats who are following him. So in that sense, this takes a few years. And there are one or two passing references in the sources that we have that suggest that there were some teething trouble. So there's a bit of a pushback from some of the Vandal aristocrats. There's a passing reference to a revolt of the Vandal aristocracy in 442. And that's actually the year when Geyseric signs his second and much more lasting peace

23:57treaty with the Western Empire. So in some senses, 442 represents the point of which there's a kind of constitutional starting point for the Vandal kingdom, if that makes sense. It's equally important to recognize that although many of the wealthiest landowners fled North Africa at the time when the Vandals arrived, lots of the land holdings were imperial or senatorial land holdings. So we're people who had never really lived regularly in Africa anyway. And lots of the local aristocracy actually chose to remain within North Africa because they didn't really have anywhere to go and more or less found a place for themselves within the running of the Vandal kingdom. So one of the striking things about Geyseric's reign and actually much of the Vandal period is the degree to which lots of members of the late Roman aristocracy found a place for themselves within the Vandal kingdom. So the language of government within North Africa was later in. There are lots of individuals that we see in the sources who are holding what would seem to be officers that are very similar to the old provincial system that governed the Roman

24:59Empire and so on. Essentially Geyseric I think recognized that this was a system that was working really well and didn't want to rock the boat too much because that would have been madness. But at the same time, Neager to find a place for himself and his followers within North Africa. So a few years for that to be established, but for the most part, we can see strong patterns of continuity rather than abrupt political change. And makes a lot of sense. You see it with Alexander the Great and his successes with the Persian administration which was affected and so they kept ads as well. Absolutely. Or Rome coming into Egypt, sort of very similar series of patterns. The significant change that does happen in 439 is that the Vandal occupation of Carthage means that the taxation which had traditionally gone out of North Africa up to Rome to feed the Roman administration to feed the Roman army suddenly stops. And that in some ways has always been the backbone of the Roman economic system in the Mediterranean. That starts again to a degree. Those exports continue after the Treaty of 442, but it's no longer held together as this

26:03kind of central economic crux. And if the Vandals are responsible for the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and there is a case to be made that they are, it's for doing that. It's for breaking the taxation system that had always helped things together. There's a lot of archaeological evidence to suggest that trade continued, but I think the political and economic glue in some ways had really started to become brittle after 442. Guy Zrig must have known how influential and powerful he was to have that control over that grain trade. As he said, when he's agreeing that treaty with the Roman Emperor in 442, but it also feels like Guy Zrig, he's not the most trustworthy guy. If you have a peace treaty with him, especially if you're a Roman Emperor, it's not guaranteed he's going to abide by it for very long. That's true. I'm not sure there were that many particularly trustworthy individuals of any stripe who are living or operating in the kind of game of Throne's world of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century. Valentinian, who is the Roman Emperor at the time, did what he could to include Guy Zrig within his circle, including the betrayal of his daughter Eudowsia to Guy Zrig's son,

27:06Hunerick. And so in that sense, he's bringing him into the Imperial family in some senses. And that proves to be relatively successful, at least the peace holds for another 13 years until 455. And it's only really with the death of Valentinian and the political collapse that comes with that and the threat that somebody else is going to marry Eudowsia, though caused Guy Zrig to turn against the Western Empire again. And how does he turn against the Western Roman Empire? He turns against the Western Roman Empire quite spectacularly by launching a series of attacks on various different Western Mediterranean islands, so Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, and crucially on the Italian mainland as well. This was something that he had been doing after 439, so between the capture of Carthage and the first peace treaty, Guy Zrig had basically been threatening the Western and Eastern halves of the empire with these maritime attacks, because one of the things he'd got when he captured Carthage was also a large fleet, the merchant fleet he was able to use for these maritime attacks. And he resumed these after 455, and crucially and most famously in that year he also launched

28:07an attack on Rome and put Rome to the sack, plundering a huge amount of wealth from the city, including lots of plunder that the Romans themselves had taken during their expansion throughout the world. Famously this included the treasure from the Temple of Jerusalem, which the Romans had taken in the 70, Gyseric took it back in, well took it in 455 and brought it back to Carthage. But along with that portable wealth he also took a large number of human hostages, including the princess Eudowsia who he brought back to Africa to marry his son, Unaric finally. Wow, okay, that's pretty insane. It was a spectacular statement of his own power, if they took it. Absolutely, Anneke. We all hear of the Gothic sack of Rome by Alaric, but the Vandalec sack of Rome wants it. It's overshadowed, you don't know, and yet the significance of it maybe arguably is more significant than the Gothic sack, but because it happened afterwards, it's less a focus on it. Yeah, the Gothic sack sent greater shockwaves around the world simply because the eternal city hadn't been sacked for 800 years at that point.

29:09The Vandals sack also proved to be extremely significant, and after that we don't really have a meaningful and powerful Western Roman emperor again. There's another 20 years or so of different people occupying that position, but after 455, the political centrality of Rome, which is just about been holding on over the course of the last generational or two, really starts to get eclipsed. And Gaiusric actually involves himself in some of the political machinations around these later emperors, and one of the people who briefly holds that position, who's in aristocrat, called Alibrius, was actually among the hostages who were brought back to Carthage by Gaiusric, apparently with the aim of installing one of his puppets as Western Roman Empire. Emperor. So the guy is thinking, he's playing four-dimensional chess here in some sense. Absolutely. So the Vandals, the origins in Hungary, region near the Danube, now controlling this massive North African empire. He also mentioned there raiding, attacking these various islands of the Mediterranean and the Italian mainland. It almost seems like the Vandals they developed a really powerful naval arm to their empire,

30:12too, and that's fascinating considering their origins and where they came from. Yeah, there is no trace whatsoever of any type of maritime skill in Vandal history before the four twenties. So in the middle of the four twenties they attacked the Balearic islands. Later four twenties they're crossing into North Africa, but it's only really with the occupation of Carthage, the capture of the Carthaginian fleet, that they really make the most of this. They occupy Sardinia and Sardinia remains effectively Vandal with a short interruption, until the end of the Vandal kingdom. Bits have cisly remained Vandals throughout that period as well. Corsica does, too. So plausibly this is a Mediterranean kingdom rather than just in North Africa, mum. Do you think they gain a reputation for piracy or is that just hostile sources attacking the Vandals there? It's both. I mean, it's hostile sources certainly attacking the Vandals, but it's reasonable enough to accuse them of being this dramatic new force on the Mediterranean stage. The Mediterranean hasn't actually seen a lot of widespread naval combat since the start of the Roman Empire, really, and so contemporary commentators look at this new Vandal power

31:16base with some horror. And in fact, one contemporary writer who's writing in the middle of the fifth century in goal, a poet called Sidonia's Polonaris, describes this as being a fourth punic wall. So there is a genuine fear of this, and all sorts of weird references to fears of Vandal attacks, even in some quite far-flung regions of eastern of the eastern Mediterranean as well. And actually, that's one of the few areas in which the Vandal name really has preserved later on, and there are some references in an early Anglo-Saxon poem that refer to the Mediterranean as the Vandals Sea, which may be some weird, folk memory of this earlier period. It is really, really interesting to delve into. And if you were someone visiting Vandal Carfage, a trader or maybe from the Eastern Mediterranean, as you're walking down those streets, I mean, would you still see in use that the Roman architecture that had been there for hundreds of years previously, would the amphitheater still be being used for Roman style games? I mean, how much of those traditions do we think were continued by Guy's Rick and the Vandals decades after they create this Vandal Kingdom? There's an excellent question.

32:18And in some senses, the changes that were taking place in Vandal Carfage are likely to have been mirrored elsewhere. So it's partly to do with the changes of the uses to which cities were put in the fifth century, rather than the presence of the Vandals changing anything specifically. So one or two of our texts refer to moments of destruction at the time of the Vandal occupation, but it's also pretty clear that many of the most important public buildings remain in use throughout this period. There are some changes, so the large bathhouses, for example, increasingly get turned over to light industry, but that's a pattern that we can see across the form of Western Empire. Equally, interestingly, there's a body of Latin poetry that survives from the start of the sixth century, so writing in and about Vandal Africa, especially Vandal Carfage, which describe, for example, various different pantomimes, various different actors, terrier racers and gladiatorial games taking place within the amphitheater and the circus. Whether or not these actually happened is again a moot point, but it seems that the traditional

33:19patterns of civic living were still carrying on through the Vandal period. Schools are still continuing, Latin poetry survives in Vandal Africa as robust a form as we see anywhere in the fifth and early sixth century. So for the most part, culturally it's maintained this cosmopolitanism, it's maintained this vibrancy, it continues to be extremely wealthy throughout the Vandal period. We're talking about wealth, do we know much about the Vandal economy or how they ran it? Essentially, what we know about the Vandal economy comes from archaeology. You see, the vast amounts of ceramics are the pottery that was clearly made in North Africa and was shipped around the Mediterranean world. So some of this is the remains of Amphrey, which transported wine and olive oil and in other cases we have kind of fineware vessels which are plates and other vessels which seem to have been shipped alongside grain and olive oil and wine and so on. These can often be dated quite precisely and they allow us to trace the patterns of trade and the state of production within Vandal period in North Africa.

34:23It's evident from all of this that it continues in pretty robust shape throughout the fifth century and into the early sixth century. It dies off a bit at the start of the sixth century and it drops off more significantly with the Eastern Roman occupation in the five thirties which we'll talk about in a bit. But for the most part, the pattern is of continuity. And when we can talk about production, it's also pretty clear that this continues in more or less the way that it always had during the Roman period. Archaeology of individual farm sites and one or two other sources also suggest that, although there are some changes in the way farm to run for the most part, it's a pattern of continuity. You mentioned how the five thirties were definitely going to get to their very soon don't you worry, but I feel before we get there we've got to also talk about Christianity because this is such a massive part of the Vandal story. When the Vandals reach North Africa and they forge their kingdom, as almost background to this, how prominent, how embedded is Christianity in this part of the Roman Empire?

35:24So North Africa is one of the most important Christian regions within the empire. It had converted to Christianity or bits of North Africa, had converted to Christianity relatively early. So it was clearly attested in the second century. And some of the most important Christian thinkers were North African in origin, including Saint Augustine, who I mentioned earlier, possibly the single most prolific author of this period, Bishop of hippo on what's now the Algerian coast of North Africa. And a really important spokesman redefining what it was to be Roman, what it was to be Christian at the end of the fourth century and the beginning of the fifth century. But that Christian presence had brought with it also a history of persecution. So this is a region that was unusually intensely persecuted during the last period of pagan persecution at the start of the fourth century. And then equally once the empire itself became Christian during the reign of Constantine and his successes, there was a period of sectarian persecution within North Africa itself. This is sometimes called the Donatists' controversy. As a group of sort of African church decided that it disagreed with the central organization

36:27of the Catholic church or the Nicene church, and this created around about a century of tensions within the region. So Christianity is very deeply embedded within Africa and so too are stories and narratives of martyrdom and persecution. And that proves to be a really toxic inheritance for the vandals to come into. Because when the vandals do come into this air of the world, I mean, are they already Christian or do they have their own beliefs? How do they interact with the Christian church in North Africa? So the vandals were Christian. It seems extremely likely that the vast majority of vandals professed a form of Christianity that we conventionally call Aryan Christianity or sometimes homoan Christianity. Now this is as distinct from Nicene Christianity or homoasian Christianity, there are essentially two different ways of thinking about the relationship between Christ and God. I won't go into lots of detail here. It gets extremely confusing. But the important thing to bear in mind is both of these different professions had been followed by different emperors in the fourth century.

37:29But as we get into the fifth century, it's the Nicene or Catholic or homoasian form of Christianity, which is the dominant form within the empire. And the vandals are Aryans or homoans. And this creates some difficulty. They're not by any means the only homoans. This is extremely, or the only Aryans. This is extremely common amongst barbarian groups in this period, and extremely common in the military in this period. But they find themselves as professors of Aryan Christianity in a population that is both predominantly Nicene and also extremely shaped by these traditions of martyrdom and persecution, as I was just saying. And those two things create some pretty significant tensions over the period that follows. So what do these tensions result in? Is there an attempt for them to almost live side by side, or do the vandals very much want to promote their own version of this Aryan Christianity? So Gaiusric for the most part seems pretty content to have allowed the two groups to rule side by side or sit side by side.

38:32So the Aryan Christianity is dominant within Carthage, and is the one that he prefers his immediate vandal followers to profess. But for the most part he seems to have allowed by scene or Catholic Christianity to continue elsewhere in North Africa. Again, it's a case of probably not wanting to rock the boat too much. And he doesn't seem to have been particularly evangelical. He's not bothered about converting everybody else to his form of Christianity. There are certainly moments of persecution, and we have texts that were written by members of the Catholic Church who were themselves persecuted, which naturally make a big deal of this, understandably. But these often included, for example, removing people from their office if they refuse to convert to Aryanism. So he wants the people in his court to be Aryan for the most part. But that's about the limit of it. Things change a little bit in the reign of his successor, Huniric, and during the late summer and autumn of 484, there is a period of pronounced and active persecution in which Huniric sets about persecuting the Nicene or Catholic Christians,

39:32especially within Carthage and the surrounding provincial area. And that includes both closing churches, putting some Catholics to death and exiling others. Land of Viking longship on island shores scramble over the dunes of ancient Egypt and avoid the poisonous cup in Renaissance florets. Each week on Echoes of History, we uncover the epic stories that inspire Assassin's Creed. We're stepping into feudal Japan in our special series Chasing Shadows, where samurai warlords and Shinobi spies teach us the tactics and skills needed, not only to survive, but to conquer. Whether you're preparing for Assassin's Creed Shadows, or fascinated by history and great stories, listen to Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. There are new episodes every week. Do you feel like from the surviving sources that those successors of Geyseric,

40:53they almost struggled to live up to this great Titan who was the first rule of the Vandal Kingdom? These successors are the ones who are more beset by problems, whether it's religious problems or foreign affairs problems, but they can't really live up to the good times almost of Geyseric in North Africa. To an extent, we know more about Geyseric than we do about his success as Paulic has lived for a long time. Hunterick, we only know about because of the narratives of his persecution, so we have a very negative picture of him. The two kings who came afterwards, or the next king, he was Hunterick's nephew, an individual called Gunthermand, we know almost nothing about beyond the fact that he issued a bunch of coins in new denominations, which is interesting and strange, but we can't say much beyond that. But the next king was a rule called Thrasamund, who ruled basically at the turn of the 6th century, from the last years of the 5th century, down to about 523. His rule was remembered partly for another period of persecution, where he exiled lots of prominent Catholics, especially to Sardinia,

41:54but also for an intellectual inquiry. So one of the Catholic writers, he describes Thrasamund's rule and describes his persecution as an individual called Fulgentius, who also describes debating these theological topics with the king. So this is a king who was interested in this kind of stuff, he wasn't just stamping his authority on his Catholic subject. And this is also the period where we really see that efflorescence of Latin literature, including lots of poems that were in celebrating Thrasamund's benevolent rule. So there is a tendency within the scholarship, as a result of that, to see Thrasamund as being a kind of Renaissance man and overseeing this late cultural flowering of the Vandal State. His position on the foreign policy stage was significantly weaker than Gyserix, and that was definitely true after Gyserix's death, the Vandals are much less influential on a global stage. But Africa's still doing okay under several of his success. Okay, so following Thrasamund, there's almost Renaissance prints for some of the scholars that you mentioned there. What happens? It doesn't feel like the Vandal Kingdom lasts much longer.

43:00That's right. So there are two really interesting chapters to come before the day new morning, if you like. And the first is the rule of an individual called Hilderick. Now, you may remember earlier that I mentioned Gyserix's son, Honorick, was married to a Roman princess called Eudacea. They had a son called Hilderick. But because of the obscure nature of the Vandal rule of succession, where the next king was always the next oldest member of the family, rather than following a system of primogeniture, where it always goes to the eldest son of the ruling monarch, Hilderick had to wait for quite a long time before he became king. He only became king in 523, possibly when he was around about 60. So he wasn't your traditional king at the peak of his military powers. But equally, he could claim descent both from Gyserix on his father side and from the Roman Emperor Valentinian III on his mother side. And he made quite a lot of this. He was both a Hasdene and a Theodosian and saw himself as being a natural ally of the Eastern Emperors,

44:01especially the Eastern Emperor Justinian who came to the throne about the same time. So those two were quite closely bound to one another. He certainly presented himself as an ally of the Eastern Emperor. But it seems likely that this caused some discontent amongst other members of the Vandal aristocracy. And eventually in 530, there was a rebellion. Under a Vandal prince called Gellema, who would in the normal scheme of things have become the next Vandal king anyway, but was a distant cousin of Hilderick, but he decided to hasten things along over through Hilderick and seize power for himself. And this then created a whole series of military crises across the different parts of the Vandal kingdom. We're still pretty big at this point, but there's a revolt in Sardinia. There's a revolt in the coastal town of Leppkiss Magna, which is on the case of modern Libya, and also some problems with Berber and Mourish groups living in the interior. Gellema sets about trying to deal with all of these problems. And while he's doing that, the Eastern Emperor Justinian recognizes his chance, takes it,

45:03and sends an expeditionary force under his great general Belisarius in the late summer of 533, originally just to go to North Africa and reinstall Hilderick as the rightful king of Africa. But in fact, he winds up taking out Gellema and the Vandals reoccupy and cartage within about two weeks, and eventually finally defeating Gellema the following spring in 534. To the Vandal kingdom, which has lasted almost 100 years, and has actually resisted a number of fairly significant imperial efforts to take it back in 440 to 458 and 468, finally under a relatively small army of about 15,000 men under Belisarius in 533 is taken out in a fortnight, and that's basically the end of the Vandal king. Wow. But what happens to the Vandal people after Belisarius takes their capital, takes cartage? It's a kind of surprisingly anticlimite again to quite an impressive history and some senses. So Gellema continues to resist for about another six months before eventually he surrenders

46:04and is brought back to Constantinople in Belisarius as triumph, along with a lot of the plunder, which includes incidentally the plunder that Gellema could take in from Rome in 455, and which the Romans had taken from Jerusalem in the first century. In Africa itself, some of the individuals who left behind Mary into the occupying army, but for the most parts, we don't hear very much of them after a brief military rebellion that they seem to have been behind in 536. And beyond that, we don't hear very much of the Vandals at all. There are one or two funerary epitaphs, they're basically tombstones that are erected to individuals with conspicuously Germanic names that continue to appear into the late 6th century, but they're rarely identified specifically as Vandals. And occasionally in one or two of their religious disputes, which continue to go on throughout the Byzantine occupation, references are made to bishops of the Vandals, possibly referring to their Aryanism or the Homoianism. And so that debate seems to have continued,

47:05but for the most part, the Vandals simply drop off the map. It's the story is now about the Romans, the Africans, and the various different Libyan or Morish groups who are also rising to prominence in this region. It is fascinating, as we mentioned right at the start, you know, their brutal rise and their time and the limelight, and then this sudden disappearance and fading from the view. Why is it that today? The name Vandals as these ancient people is more puts the size compared to the Huns and the Goths, and yet the word of Vandal and Vandalism has come about and is so prominent. Essentially, I think it's because their kingdom was in North Africa. And that basically meant that following the Islamic conquest of North Africa in the 7th century, Africa basically fit into its own grand story and not one that's widely taught in European schools. That's not true of many of these different barbarian groups who established their kingdoms in the European regions of the Western Empire. So in some senses, we see the 5th and 6th century as being the time when England was founded by the Angles

48:08and the Saxons, the time when France was being founded by the Frankie and the time when the Begundians established themselves in South Eastern Gaul and so on. Equally, some of the other peoples who were prominent in that period like the Goths, lent their name to other things over the course of the medieval period, especially Gothic architecture, for example. So in that sense, all of the other barbarian groups of the period had their names are sexiated with different things, with regions, with kingdoms, with other different cultural traditions. The Vandals didn't, and they kind of hover in this in the accounts that are written the medieval period, the early modern period, where people are aware of them, but they're always slightly peripheral to the big story. That change is actually in the aftermath of the French Revolution, when there's a period of cultural destruction, basically, which happens around about the time of the terror, where lots of the artwork that's associated with the church and associated with a king gets plundered and destroyed, and there are attempts by the revolutionary government in France to try and curb that. And there's one individual who's put in charge

49:08of an inquiry trying to explain precisely what's going on and curb this destruction. And this is a churchman called Gregor, the Bishop of Bloix, and he coins the term Vandalism for what he sees. And effectively what he's doing there, he's using Vandalism with a capital V, where he's using this as a metaphor. He's basically saying, you people are behaving like the Vandals. Who you'll remember had come into Northern Gaul at the beginning of the fifth century, and according to the historical accounts that he had, had caused a huge amount of destruction, because he was a churchman. He was also familiar with all of these accounts of the Vandals persecuting the true Catholic church. And so this was a really helpful label for him to stick on these destructive individuals. Certainly much more helpful than the Frankie who were associated with the French or the Goths who were associated with different types of architecture. To in that way, Vandalism really stuck. It was also quite a euphonic word. It sounds quite nice Vandalism. And it circulated really quickly in the aftermath. It appears for the first time in English and German dictionaries within a few years

50:08of Bishop Gregor coining the term. And then over the course of the 19th and into the 20th century, it basically loses its capital letter and becomes the metaphor that we have today. This idea that you're a Vandal, that's something that stands for itself. I'm not comparing you to one of these barbarians of the fifth century. And in fact, we frequently forgotten that these were originally fifth century barbarians. Last but certainly not least, you have written a book all about the Vandals, which is called The Vandals, which I wrote with my colleague Richard Miles a few years ago. And a couple of weeks ago, I also published a book called War, Rebellion, and Epic in Byzantine, North Africa, which deals with the early years of the Byzantine conquest. Brilliant. Adi, with that, he just goes me to say, thank you so much. I'm taking the time to come on the podcast today. Thank you, it's been fun. What's the most important thing to do? Well, there you go. There was Professor Andy Merrill from Lester University, talking through the story of the ancient Germanic group known as The Vandals, I hope you enjoyed the episode.

51:09Thank you so much for listening. If you want to learn more about these groups, that were a threat to the Roman Empire in late antiquity, while we've got episodes on the Goths, we've got an episode on the Franks, also on the Saxons as well. So we'll put a link to all of those episodes in the show notes so you can listen to even more about these so-called barbarian groups, these barbarian threats of the late Roman Empire. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Ancients. If you're enjoying the show, please make sure to follow us on Spotify or wherever you get to your podcasts. That really helps us. You'll be doing us a big favor. If it be kind enough to leave us a rating as well, we do really appreciate that. Don't forget, you can also sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week. Sign up at historyhit.com slash subscribe. That's all from me. I'll see you in the next episode. you

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