The Simple Formula Behind an 8-Figure Sustainable Brand

Performance, sustainability, and affordability.

Those three things have to hit and bingo.

We've got a great product.

Starting with just one line of coffee cups on a few shelves,

Lauren Groper launched Repurpose,

a line of home goods made from plant-based alternatives.

We definitely tried to look different,

to feel different,

along with, hey, this is sustainable.

Repurpose is now an eight-figure brand

found in 20,000 stores

and responsible for diverting over 700 million pieces

of plastic from landfills.

I really do believe that within a decade,

we're not going to see petroleum-based plastics.

All these things will be gone.

Lauren Groper is here with me now to share

how she's leading the tableware category

with new products, partners, and tools.

I'm Serena Smith,

and this is Shopify Masters,

your companion for starting and scaling a business.

Lauren, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Serena. I'm so happy to be here.

Take us back to what was now many years ago,

pre-repurposed launch, pre-2010.

You're on this film and TV set,

you're working to make them more sustainable,

which we both know is an uphill battle.

Definitely not.

And you get to the lunch hour,

and you're just surrounded by this sea of plastic.

Yes.

What takes you from frustration into action?

I really saw it, honestly, as just a design challenge.

I'd gone to school for sustainable design,

and I thought to myself,

this is just the wrong design.

This is the wrong material.

We can solve this plastic problem with better design.

What if we could use good materials instead of materials

that are toxic and last forever

and end up in our oceans and landfills?

What if we could use something just better,

cleaner that would actually degrade?

And so that was kind of what got the wheels turning.

And I was just very excited by thinking about

how to solve this problem using design.

And then I thought, well, design is one thing,

but how do you have broader impact?

Like, how can I bring this into the world in a bigger way

and actually make change?

And there were other companies

that I had kind of seen come up at that time

that were challenging the status quo

that were kind of disrupting these legacy brands,

like organic baby food or natural cleaning

was kind of coming up.

And it just felt like there's a space and a place

to have a brand that stands up against plastic disposables

and why can't it be repurposed?

So that was the start.

I was just very kind of like, yeah, young naive.

Just thought I could take it on and didn't know

what I was getting into had I know

and I honestly may not have done it.

So I'm happy that I didn't know.

And yeah, I was just like, let's do it.

Let's go. I'm going to do this.

Did you have the sense and certainty at the time

that there were better alternatives out there?

Did you know what they were already

or were you just committed to going on the journey

and figuring it out?

I think a little bit of both.

I had seen alternatives in the market

but they weren't very well made.

I always thought the design could be improved a lot

and the price was really high.

So it felt like you're not winning on price.

You're not really winning on design or performance.

It's just never going to take off.

But if the products could be made better

if there could be just sort of a price point

that was closer to parity,

then you would have something.

Then there's not really a reason to say no.

So the whole time sort of pre-launch

was kind of getting to that place

where, okay, how close can we get to price parity

and how happy are we with these designs?

Like, are we ready to put our name behind this

and put this out into the world?

Yes, it performs. Yes, it looks great.

Yes, it's sustainable.

Okay, check, launch.

Take me into that process

from a design and a development perspective

but also from a decision making perspective for you, right?

I think part of the reason why sustainability

hasn't been at the forefront for so many years

is because it is expensive, right?

Yes. So what is the matrix that you're utilizing?

Yes.

To figure out when you're like landing at the right place

and how are you pulling those lovers?

It's so hard.

I love that you said what's the matrix

because it is really hard.

What we use actually is kind of the Venn diagram

of performance, sustainability, and affordability.

Okay.

Okay, those three things have to hit in order for us

to put something out into the world

with the repurposed brand on it.

So performance, meaning it can't just like melt or break

or whatever in your hands.

It has to work as well as a conventional product.

Affordability can't be some niche crazy expensive.

You know, there are, for example,

there are products out there that are so sustainable,

like incredible, incredible design, incredible materials,

but they cost just insane.

So they're not going to hit mass, right?

There's no way that you can get this kind of product

into a target or a Walmart at a price

that is just way out in left field.

People aren't going to buy it.

No.

So what is it that kind of meets the criteria

of definitely sustainable third party certified,

independently tested for toxins, et cetera,

breaks down according to certified compostability standards,

like it meets all these third party criteria

and it's affordable and it performs bingo.

We've got a great product.

So that's what we put out into the world.

And if it doesn't meet those three, it doesn't go.

So for example, we get asked all the time,

can you guys make an alternative to Ziploc sandwich bags?

My kids, you know, use these every day in their lunches

and I would love nothing more than to do this.

But because of the material, the plant-based plastics,

they're porous.

So when you put something into a freezer

or you want to have, keep something fresh,

it will not perform to the level of plastic.

So things go stale within a day.

So is it a great thing to carry, you know, a snack

to the soccer field?

Yes, but it does not meet our level

of a performance standard to put out in the world.

So we have it.

Are there products that you've gone down the path

of attempts to do all the way to the past?

And there are companies out there.

I applaud them.

They're doing great work trying to get these products

under the world and be sort of an alternative to Ziploc.

But I don't feel that the performance is something

that I would want to use at home or that I would stand behind.

So we didn't do it.

And there's multiple examples of products like that

where it's shocking to me that there are products

like that in the world that you're like,

this is so expensive.

It doesn't perform.

It's halfway sustainable.

How is this thing even being sold?

But it is.

At the same time, it's got to be hard to get like deep

into R&D only to realize you have to abandon a ship.

It's so hard.

And that's why I applaud everyone trying to do the right thing

and trying to put a product out there that is better for you,

better for the planet.

Any alternative is better.

But I think for us, I think the reason

that we have been successful over the years

and been around 15 years is because we are so focused

on product, are so focused on affordability

and sustainability all at the same time.

And we do not sacrifice.

I want convenience.

I'm a mom.

I have two kids.

Life is messy.

Life is fast.

I want convenience.

But I don't want to feel guilty about cutting corners

or using disposables.

And couldn't we just give a mom an easy out

with the product that works well.

There's no negative consequences.

And it's good for the planet, good for her health

or family's health.

I feel like that's a win.

You launched with one product, the coffee cup.

Yes.

Why launch with just one?

And why would and why, you know,

I don't narrow deep in the beginning.

And why was that the place to start?

Was it about consumer interest?

Was it about ease of manufacturing?

Was it about the development process?

Why land there?

Note to entrepreneurs out there never launched

with just one product.

Or if you have one product, maybe have multiple versions

of it, but it really was the unique product that we had

that we felt was kind of combining all those things.

Like amazing performance, super sustainable.

It was affordable.

It was like this amazing feel.

It felt like a velvet cup kind of thing.

And the lid was also compostable.

So it was a very unique, like you didn't need a sleeve.

And people loved it.

They loved the feel of it.

They loved how it looked and felt.

And also it was sustainable.

So I think the reason we launched with one

is that's the one that people wanted by people.

I mean consumers and our customers, which are retailers.

They were like, this is something unique.

It's different than everything else on the shelf.

So yeah, let's do it.

And that's why we launched with one.

But I would never launch with one again.

It's very hard to stand out.

Think of, you know, you're walking down the grocery aisle

and you're looking at the shelves.

One little item is very hard to stand out

as a brand and kind of notice it.

So you always want to have more, more items

in order for the person walking down the aisle

to see you and notice it and maybe spend three seconds

being like, yeah, I'll take that.

Lessons learned.

Yeah, hard ones learned.

You were talking about launching with a coffee cup

because it was what customers wanted

and also what retailers wanted.

How were you cleaning those insights at the time?

Were you pitching on multiple potential products

and then narrowing it down to the one?

Yes, we were doing that.

And we had gotten quite a bit of press

on that one product.

And so that was really driving some of the interests.

Like this, it was very unique at the time.

And because of that press, that gave us something

to share with a retailer that was like,

oh, okay, I see.

It's been sort of validated.

I'm interested in this.

Yes, let's do it.

And then the consumer was buying it.

The world has really changed in the last 15 years.

Yeah.

So many ways.

Yes, but like what was the conversation

around compostables and sustainability

like at that time?

It was a challenging conversation.

I mean, I do think we were probably ahead of the market

and that consumers didn't really care

the way they do today at all.

There wasn't the same education as there is today at all.

This was almost sort of like pre,

I believe pre sort of e-commerce

as a mainstream way of shopping days as well.

So I think it was definitely for us an uphill battle

to get people interested just in like,

what is this and why do I need it?

And the concept of like, what's wrong with plastic?

Like, what do you mean it's bad for my health?

What do you mean it lands in the ocean?

What do you mean it lasts forever?

I think there was very little awareness

around the problems with plastic.

That education, that awareness continued

to rise with internet culture

and with the meme of the straw and the turtles' nose,

which happened I know in 2016

because it was a turning point for us.

It really did.

Yeah, watershed moment totally.

And then people start to really care and say,

hey, Yuck, I don't want plastic in my life.

I realize it's bad for me.

It's bad for the planet like what else is out there.

And luckily we were already out there.

So that was a watershed for us

because that's when we were able to kind of mass penetrate.

OK, but 2010 to 2016 is a long period of time.

Rough waters.

And it sounds like the, in many ways,

the onus was on you at repurpose

to be engaging in a lot of this consumer education

but also retailer education to both convince retailers

that you deserve space on shelves

and also to convince consumers of the merits of using this.

Absolutely.

What were some of the mistakes you made early on

when it comes to that education process?

So many.

We made so many mistakes.

I mean, on the education side,

we didn't have the budgets.

I mean, we had really minimal marketing budgets.

We were like living on a shoestring

to be able to do anything.

And so it was sort of early days of social.

We relied on that and influencers and whatnot.

But really you're hitting like a tiny fraction

with the budgets that we had.

So I think what we did was probably try to penetrate

too much of the market early on when really,

we probably only had a consumer buy-in

on the West Coast, probably maybe some of the,

you know, Northeast Coast.

Really it was like a coastal thing

and maybe some pockets of, you know,

various metropolitan areas throughout the country.

But it was not widespread across the country

in terms of just awareness or desire

for these kind of products.

So I would have focused more heavily on those markets

and just gone very deep there

versus trying to kind of like,

peanut butter spread across the country

and, you know, support that is really hard.

Is that a piece of advice that you would still give

to founders in this space today, narrow the focus?

Or do you feel like the landscape has changed stuff?

I think the landscape has changed so much,

especially with e-commerce.

You can really, I mean,

you can be available for everyone everywhere,

but I would focus my marketing budget.

Yes, on those areas that I feel

have the strongest consumer market for my product.

Absolutely.

Being innovative is a double-edged sword, right?

On the one hand,

everybody wants to be a disruptor in the category.

And on the other hand,

if you're too far ahead of the curve,

you're kind of S.O.L.

Where do you feel like repurposed was in that spectrum?

I think we always had,

I mean, after we had that for the one scale,

we moved on to more skews where some of the skews

had that sort of broad appeal.

They weren't necessarily super innovative,

but they were kind of the workhorses where they,

you know, people would need them and use them.

It was kind of like everyday essential type thing,

like a everyday plate, just like a dinner plate.

It was innovative and is innovative still

in that we're using up-cycle sugar cane

versus any kind of like virgin paper.

So we're taking the waste from the sugar industry.

They don't use the cane.

They use the juice.

And then we use the cane grind it up

and that becomes a plate.

So it is innovative.

But at the end of the day, it's a plate.

And that was one where we definitely had interest

from consumers and buyers.

But then we'd have to also,

we'd also have to have something

that was like super innovative,

just to kind of like give us an edge, I guess,

and give us that brand cash hand,

give us something that people really aspired to.

So we always lead with something super innovative,

while at the same time delivering kind of the basics

that people need.

When you launched,

you were, if not entirely, virtually alone in the category.

You think about that from the retailers perspective,

where even were you trying to persuade them

to place you when there wasn't an entire aisle

of sustainable, compostable products?

Great question.

In the early days, they were sort of like,

oh, we'll put you in the section

with the green cleaning and the natural baby food.

And you were like, no, they're not going to come looking

for us there.

We want to be right next to the big legacy players

in the paper products aisle.

Please put us there.

So that's eventually where we landed.

And that's where we've done well.

I mean, I think people skin any aisle.

You have literally three seconds

to kind of catch their eye and say, hey, we're different.

And when we launched,

we definitely tried to look different to feel different.

I mean, we are different

and just sort of stand out from what has been there

for 50 years plus to sort of say,

hey, this is something you can do different.

And I think that alone,

just trying to kind of like brand ourselves

as different, maybe a little more modern, younger

is what helped us stand out in those early years.

Now everything looks like that.

We didn't obviously create that look and feel,

but I think just products on shelf have gotten beautiful,

you know, and different.

And everybody has a point of view and looks amazing.

But our aisle is still a little bit behind.

The legacy players are, you know,

they've been around a long time.

It does not look like the way the rest

of kind of the snack aisle does

where everything is bright colors and cool patterns.

And, you know, that's what we tried to bring to the aisle

along with, hey, this is sustainable

and the rest is not.

So.

Did it work?

It worked.

Right away.

No.

Not right away.

I mean, I think it worked in certain markets really well.

And I think it did help us stand out.

But I think of the reason we've been able

to kind of stay ahead, continue to be successful

in the markets that we're in is we figured out how

to sell through.

So like it's one thing to get on the shelf.

It's another thing to actually have people buy you

at the time of time again, or to kind of bring new

to brand buyers to to your brand.

And I think we've always thought of ourselves as Omni,

meaning we're available online and in store,

you know, anywhere people shop we are.

And so that just kind of putting our efforts

across multiple channels has a halo effect

to the other channels.

So maybe you see us on, you know, on our e-commerce site

on rpures.com or you see us on, you know, Instacarter

would have you or Amazon or wherever you may not buy

then, but then you see us on shelf

and you recognize the look and feel of the brand

and then you purchase.

So having kind of that Omni channel strategy

and really kind of trying to be everywhere all at once

though it is expensive, it's what really drives

all through on the other channels.

Like they all kind of play into each other.

It's symbiotic in a way.

Yeah, exactly.

But in so many ways, the relationship

and the dynamic with brick and mortar retailer

is pretty different from the D to C universe.

Are you servicing those customer bases differently?

Yes, definitely.

The skew offering is different kind of

what is highlighted in each is different,

what people love on e-commerce is not always the same

as what they love on shelf, which is interesting

because I think best in class brands,

you know, the number one item on the shelf

is also the number one item, you know,

on the website is also the number one item wherever.

And for us, it's actually a little different.

Yeah, so our number one item on the shelf

is not the number one item online.

And I think that's because our number one item on shelf

is the plate, the plateable.

And that's because people are buying kind of,

they're in store, they're having a party.

Oh, got to get the plates or, you know,

they know they're having events

and it's almost like a last minute purchase.

You're not often thinking ahead of,

oh, I'm going to have people over next week.

Let's spend the, you know, time going online,

shopping for this so that in five days,

I'll have my, you know, my plates.

Whereas online, people are subscribing to things

that they use every day.

We make trash bags, we make toilet paper,

sustainable trash bags, and bamboo toilet paper.

But those can be subscribed to.

It's just every day, you just want,

you don't want to think about it.

And so that's what's really popular,

or any calm, just the products that, you know,

you use all the time every day and just comes to your door.

I also think people don't want to have to like,

lug a giant thing of toilet paper

from a supermarket shelf.

So it's interesting.

It's a different, different use case.

In the early days, you were virtually alone on shelf

with no other competitors,

and that had its own challenges being so early to market.

And now the shelf is full of competitors.

That's its own challenge.

To what extent do you think repurposes responsible

for the category exploding in the way that it has?

And what's your relationship with the competition?

I think my biggest accomplishment,

our biggest accomplishment.

And what I can tell my grandkids one day is that,

we helped to change this entire category.

I don't think we are solely responsible,

but we certainly played a decent part

in changing the category, which I feel amazing about.

So on the one hand, I'm really happy that, you know,

everything is now basically compostable

or sustainable in some way.

That's amazing, although it's now just table stakes.

So how do we differentiate as a brand?

Like why do we need to be there if everything is compostable?

And I think where we're focused now

is really kind of interesting design.

So how can we bring design into the fold where someone is able to?

It's not just a simple paper plate.

Maybe it has different shape, different form factor.

We make these amazing disposable wine glasses

that are compostable that just look beautiful.

You'd want them whether they're compostable or not.

So I think we're trying to appeal to kind of people

that love something that is just a commodity,

but they want it designed more beautifully and more elevated.

And it's also sustainable, of course,

but it has that kind of extra something

that's not just your average commodity product.

So that's where we're leaning now.

The wine glass is so beautiful and so durable

and also so much mimics plastic

that you kind of wouldn't know that it's not.

Yeah, you wouldn't know.

Yeah.

Is that its own barrier to open?

A little bit.

Yeah, it's funny because I was actually

at a camping weekend with a bunch of other moms

and dads at this school trip.

And I was like, okay, I'll bring the cups.

So I brought the wine cups and a bunch of people were like,

oh, no, thanks, I didn't use plastic.

And I'm like, but it's not.

And I had to explain like they didn't realize

that it wasn't because it does look

exactly like a plastic cup.

And they were actually so excited after the fact like,

oh, my God, this isn't plastic.

What?

And I was like, yeah, not at all.

And it's made from actually like corn

and then they compost in 90 days.

They're like, what?

No microplastics.

So I think it's hard.

We have to do all the education on the package.

It's easier online when you have a lot more room

to tell the story in the way that you use infographics

or videos or whatever it is to show.

But like on shelf, it's got to be on that package.

So I think the more that we can tell the story

and like lean in, for example, like on e-commerce,

is it one of our top products?

Because I think you can see how it's used.

You can understand why it's not plastic

and no microplastics.

And we can share all that information

where it's a little harder

if someone's just seeing it at a party.

I don't think they realize.

Do you have any nuggets of brand messaging wisdom,

especially when we're talking about being on shelf

in terms of how to engage in the education

that feels like it's giving the consumer enough

without it feeling overwhelming,

giving it to them in a way that feels interesting

without them feeling like they're being spoken down to

or that it's spinach.

Like that feels like such a tough line to walk.

So hard, especially because which I agree

with their specific federal guidelines

and state guidelines that dictate what you can

and cannot say.

And they're quite prohibitive.

So you can't say just broad-based terms

like eco-friendly cups.

You can't say eco-friendly.

We can't even, for example, in California,

use the term biodegradable

because biodegradable doesn't have

a third party certification to it.

Like this chair is biodegradable technically.

So because everything will biodegradable

at some point.

Okay, so explain to me also

then the distinction for everybody

between biodegradable versus compostable.

Biodegradable is the term that I think is most widely known

which is something will degrade.

The product will degrade eventually over time.

It will not last forever.

However, biodegradable has no specific timeline

associated with it.

Compostable means it will also degrade.

However, it has to degrade in a certain timeline.

So to be certified compostable,

the product has to basically completely degrade

into the soil within 90 days.

If it's home compostable, it's within 12 months.

But it's a very different metric.

It's a very different metric.

So like in three months,

this thing has to be gone in a municipal

industrial compost.

And why they say that?

Because it's a very controlled environment.

You have really high levels of heat,

humidity, oxygen, all those things are playing together

so that this thing, the product will break down within 90 days.

You've had 15 years of figuring out this matrix

of performance versus sustainability versus affordability.

Things that I would think could be in conflict with one another.

Yes, they are in conflict with one another.

Okay, so definitely are in conflict with one another.

Can you take us into the process of how you make that assessment

and how you know when you're sort of getting into this sweet spot?

And if it's helpful, maybe times that you got it wrong

and learned from that.

Yeah.

We've gotten a wrong a number of times.

I think where we have gotten wrong mostly

and I think I have like the founderitis of this,

which is like, oh, shiny object.

Like, oh, innovation.

I definitely lean more that way.

And so I get really like bedazzled by a new kind of material

or a new resin or what have you that is like,

oh, we can make this out of that.

Isn't that cool?

And you go down the path of like, yeah,

but it's just way too expensive.

And at the end of the day, it doesn't perform.

Like we've had this amazing kind of instead of plastic

to seal the product,

we use this sort of like compostable bag.

And it was super compostable.

We thought the performance was great.

And then lo and behold on shelf,

it was like the bag was just like tearing open.

The product was just falling out.

That's just horrible.

And, you know, we thought we were doing something great.

But no, we just didn't do enough testing.

We rushed it.

We were like, yeah, let's do this.

This is amazing.

I really wanted to do it.

And we didn't have the right product.

And we rushed it.

I think a lot of the times don't we rush things

because we think it's going to be like first to market

or new or innovative.

And like, oh, this would be so great.

We got to get this in front of whatever.

It's really kind of bit us most of the time.

So there is tech that you are excited about

that just can't be introduced.

That just can't be.

I know.

And there's so much that I mean right now

that I would love to commercialize

and bring to market that is just so unique.

But either the price is too high

or the performance isn't quite there.

That's usually the challenge.

Like the sustainability factor is so high and so amazing.

And that's what I get excited about.

Like that's what gets me really jazzed.

But then the practical measures aren't there.

It's got to be frustrating as a founder

and as the leader of a mission driven business

where you really are trying

to make a positive impact on the planet

and you have, right?

How many pieces of plastic have you diverted?

727 million.

So that's a 727 million pieces.

Wow.

Yeah, that's remarkable, right?

You can lay your head down on the pillow at night.

And yet the problem continues to feel like larger

and more insurmountable.

It seems by the day.

It does.

When you started,

microplastics were not in the conversation really what

so I don't even know what they were.

Now their mainstream.

I read something yesterday that they're in every organ

of our body or something horrifying.

The two are being born with it.

It's crazy, right?

How does that impact you as a human being

but also as a business leader of an organization

that is trying to affect positive change?

Is it motivating or sometimes you just want to lie down

on the couch?

It's both, depending on the day, you know,

it is motivating for me actually.

I do feel like, okay, then we have to do more.

Let's do more.

How can we do more do better?

Like I want to be that company that actually

is like taking a stand and trying to do better.

But then there are those days too

where it just something, you know,

somebody just seems insurmountable

and it's like a tidal wave of, oh, you know,

you hear news about certain chemicals

being now allowed to be sprayed on all pesticides

and it's like, oh my gosh, you know, it's hard.

I think though that for me, I just,

I tend to be a positive person.

I want to focus on what we can do

and do whatever I can to make it better.

In those moments where it feels like

something akin to burnout might be creeping in.

What do you do to combat it?

Take a break, you know,

take even if it's just like, go take a walk.

Whatever it is that are like, go be with the kids.

Just get your head out of the, the mess of it.

I think every founder, every entrepreneur deals with this.

It's like such a roller coaster.

There is a lot of burnout.

Sometimes you're like, feel like you're kind of like

banging your head against the wall

or we use the pushing the boulder up the hill.

I'll say a lot.

It is really hard.

It is super, super hard.

But then you have this like great news

or something really cool that happens with your product

or like your team does something really amazing

and it just kind of like propels you to the next step

that next level, but yeah.

I tend to kind of like take a walk, get in nature,

just get out of the day to day of it

and step away and come back.

And appreciate the small wins.

Appreciate the small wins, for sure.

Yes.

You recently launched bamboo toilet paper.

Yes.

Can you explain to us what makes it so different

from regular toilet paper and why that was

the next evolution in your product expansion?

Bamboo toilet paper for one thing uses bamboo

versus virgin paper from trees.

So you're not cutting down trees.

You're using a renewable resource.

Bamboo is like a weed.

It just grows them and you cut it down.

So it uses significantly less water to produce as well,

less energy.

So that alone just using bamboo versus trees

is a huge environmental one.

However, the other big piece and the reason why

I believe bamboo toilet paper has kind of taken off

in the world is because

bamboo toilet paper does not contain forever chemicals

called PFAS and those forever chemicals

are in most conventional toilet paper.

So as people become more aware of the problem with PFAS

and the links to cancer,

it probably might be a good idea

to think about the toilet paper

that you're using day and day out every day.

And I think that just kind of educating people

on what is in conventional toilet paper has resulted in

kind of an interest in the alternatives.

Bamboo being the biggest one.

God, it's like you kind of have to be the bearer of bad news.

I know, I feel like such a Debbie Downer.

But then you're like, but I've got the solution.

But you can have something different.

Yeah.

I know.

It is kind of like, want, want.

But then, you know, there is this great solution

and, you know, there is a little bit of a price premium

not just our product.

But bamboo is because it's not at scale

of kind of like the gigantic, you know,

toilet paper manufacturers.

We're not quite there yet,

but there are many brands besides us kind of out there

really trying to push this.

And it's, it's what's growing the category.

So it's, it provides the growth in the category.

So I think it's just going to be get bigger and bigger

and soon be mainstream.

You started the company with the brand positioning

of sustainability first.

Yes.

Has that shifted over the years?

Is that still what you're leading with?

It is always sort of part of our DNA,

but I think it's not necessarily what we're leading with now.

It's always going to be there and we want to be known

as kind of a brand that you can trust.

We're authentic.

We walk our talk.

We'll be very transparent.

But I think we want people to know more

about kind of how it impacts them,

their health, the health of their family.

So a lot of our products are, all of our products

are non-toxic.

So we offer a safe alternative

to the conventional products that may or may not, you know,

have microplastics or PFAS or what have you.

And we are offering an alternative.

And I think people care sadly a little more about that

than they do about the kind of environment at large.

So while we as a company are, you know,

through and through sustainable,

I think our messaging and what we're kind of sharing

first and foremost is more about microplastics and toxins

than, you know, here's the amount of trees

that you're going to save.

From an internal perspective,

how did you assess how and when to start

to make that transition?

It was really just sort of how messages

were being kind of perceived.

So we would, you know, like any company,

test different messages, use different ad formats

and what people were really kind of responding to most

was messages around microplastics,

messages around PFAS, messages around issues

that they cared about that were kind of impacting their own health

and the health of their family versus messages of sustainability.

Got to meet people where they are.

Got to meet people where they're.

Yes.

Give us a little bit of hope.

I think today's consumer, the younger generation,

they just expect sustainability.

It's like, it's almost an expectation.

It's not a feature.

So of course it's sustainable.

You know, that's just table stakes.

I know that now what?

So I think to your point about like we started leading there

and then it just became mainstream and table stakes.

So then what?

The problem can feel insurmountable in moments.

Are you having been inside this thing so deeply hopeful

that there is a potential brighter future ahead for us

if we're willing to make these shifts?

I am very hopeful.

I'm super hopeful.

I think for sure I really do believe that within a decade

we're not going to see petroleum-based plastics.

We're not going to see PFAS and toilet paper.

All these things will be gone.

Love to hear that.

Yes.

AI is obviously unavoidable, right?

And can supercharge your workflow in so many ways.

Can you talk about how you've brought it

into the business in your workflows?

It's one of those things as well that is challenging

for me because of the environmental impact.

So I don't think people are super aware

of the amount of energy that AI requires

to actually operate and the huge data centers

that use significant amount of energy

to actually just make AI function.

So there is that kind of like,

while I want to lean on AI so heavily

because it is incredible.

We have brought it into our organization.

We do use it daily.

But we're very conscious to understand, okay,

which tools are we using?

Do they offset anything?

Like we're conscious of what we're using

and perhaps maybe how can we offset some of the kind

of the footprint that we create using AI?

And it is a challenge because it is amazing.

We actually brought in a group to come

and do sort of an online course.

We have a group that teaches our whole company

so that we have a single vocabulary now

so that the whole team is aware of like,

how to use chat GPT, how to create GPT's,

how to create projects, how to use the tools

to create new, interesting marketing assets.

You know, we use it for all of our scopes of work

to put in kind of like standardized procedures.

We use it in finance.

I mean, we use it for everything.

Shout out to Chat Walrus, Craig Foltz, Chat Walrus,

Aiga.

Yeah.

In hindsight, do you think being so early to market

was a blessing or a curse?

I think a bit of both, honestly.

I don't think it's great to be always first to market.

It can be.

It's nice to be like a close second.

A fast follower, as they say.

Being ahead of the market is challenging

because you burn resources, you spend money

and trying to kind of like educate the market

and bring the consumer along.

It's like surfing.

I was talking about this with one of our sales guys

the other day, shout out to Cody.

He's like, it's so much like surfing.

Like, you don't want to be too early.

You're going to miss the way completely.

And if you're too late, same thing.

It's like, it's really hard to get the timing exactly right.

But I think if you're doing something innovative,

yeah, you do want to be more on the early side

than the late side, for sure.

But if you are too early, you're just spending a lot of like

money that's really hard to get to advance the company.

I mean, those early day kind of investors are amazing,

but you're not necessarily getting huge amounts

to kind of prove your concept.

You have to be so careful with every dollar.

So when you're very far ahead of the market, it's just tough.

Now with the benefit of perspective,

do you have any advice for others in terms of how they can

assess getting that timing right?

Or just some degree is it luck?

Some degree it's luck and they come out

and they have this incredible product

and they've got the right mix of buzz around it.

And it just goes.

It's amazing.

And I like hats off to those people

who do incredible jobs at making that work.

I think the advice is, yes, if you have something

innovative and you truly do have something innovative,

go for it, you've got to go, you've got to try it.

But be really thoughtful about your go-to-market

and your marketing plan and how you spend every dollar.

Be really thoughtful about the markets that you go into

and it's a challenging proposition

when you're bringing innovation to market

and you're early.

It is.

On the flip side, is there something that you can point to

that you did in the first six months of being in business

that you think set you up for long term success?

Yes, I think we were very much like a sales first organization

where it was like, you can sit there and tweak your product

till the cows come home and make it perfect

and we were like, okay, it's not totally perfect,

but we got to sell.

Let's go.

We got to show revenue here.

It was always about revenue.

Let's go.

Let's make things that people want

and if it's not absolutely perfect,

but almost all the way there,

let's take it to market because we were sales first.

We were like, how are we going to make a sale?

Let's go.

Lauren, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, sorry, now this has been amazing.

Really appreciate it.

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