The Saxophone Warrior Chris Ward, Ep 265

0:00You are listening to the Everything Saxophone Podcast Episode No. 265. Welcome back for another masterclass style interview with some of the world's greatest saxophone players, music educators and industry leaders in the saxophone world. Today's guest is none other than the saxophone warrior Chris Ward. So I met up with Chris at the NAMM Show, 2026. We've known each other for quite a while. We met at the NAMM Show. Oh my gosh, many, many years ago, I think it was the year 2019. Chris has followed the road less traveled since the beginning of his musical journey, consistently thinking outside the box and pushing beyond traditional boundaries.

1:07You're going to hear that in this episode today. He's known for bringing his own distinctive voice to everything from traditional jazz to technical fusion to pop indie and electronica. He's a master of extended technique. He's studied with Lenny Pickett. And so he's got seamless altissimo. We're going to be talking about that today as well. And he's been at the forefront of exploring new technologies in the fusion of saxophone and electronic effects, integrating them into his playing in innovative and deeply musical ways as you're hearing in the background right now. In fact, Chris was nice enough to share a couple of clips from an upcoming project. This first clip, let's listen to a little bit of it. This is called the break-in. Chris is also collaborated for 12 years with bassist Felix Pistorius in the co-led projects, hipster assassins and social experiment. He's also worked with an eclectic mix of artists, including Josh Groben, Lord Huron, Michael Stipe from REM, Mike Stern, and many others.

2:17In this episode, Chris gave some really good tips for saxophone players of all abilities, including saxophone teachers. In fact, one of the first things that we spoke about was how to give constructive feedback. We also talked about the responsibilities of good students. Chris talked about tips for transcribing, tips for getting into wedding band gigs. This is really gold right here. You definitely have to listen to this for sure. And also being prepared for different gig scenarios. We, of course, talked about studying with Lenny Pickett, and Chris shared his routine for reads and maintaining them, other great tips in terms of getting into pedals and effects, multi phonics, and so much more. Here's another clip that Chris shared from an upcoming project. This is called Wednesday. Before we get to the awesome episode, Chris, I wanted to acknowledge a lot of people that gave some great shout outs, and many of these are coming from our YouTube channel for the Everything Saxophone podcast.

3:25So the first one comes from Slow Jammer UK Dog, and this was for the Seth Eversold episode. This is episode number 257. This is a masterclass in mindset for all musicians. Everybody you got to check out this episode, Seth shares some great stuff. But Slow Jammer UK Dog wrote, can't hide from the UK, but please hype this if you're in a country that allows it, go Donna. Awesome. Thank you so much. And here's the thing. When we put a new episode out, you have seven days to hype it. There's a hype button that shows up on your mobile device only, not on the computer. So if you're in the US, please hype these episodes. It brings us up in the YouTube algorithm. Thanks so much. The next one comes from the episode with saxophone is Augie Bellow episode 258. And this was from Rickard Nygren. You wrote, thank you Donna for your service. Thank you so much. We got lots of hearts from Kiyoko Stan, 666. This is for episode 259 with saxophone is Wes Smith, another great episode.

4:25We also got, thanks Donna, great video from Anthony S. U4N for the PMORIAT new saxophones for 2026. This was from the NAMM show. We also got from Bill Bostoy on YouTube. This was for the episode with Matt Ambrose from Theo Wane. This is all about the new partnership with Theo Wane and JJ Babbitt. This was earth shattering for the saxophone world. And Bill wrote, I was waiting for your video on this great partnership with Theo Wane and Babbitt. Donna, your videos are so informative. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to everybody for your shout outs. We really truly appreciate it. If you would like to be featured in a shout out for these episodes, give us those awesome reviews on Apple podcasts. We love the five star reviews. It bumps us up in those ratings. Give us the reviews on our YouTube channel on our Facebook page. And even on our blogs on our website saxophonepodcast.com. And while you're at the website saxophonepodcast.com, sign up. Become a subscriber. You can become one of the first to know about the new episodes.

5:32Now, if you're really loving these shows, when you become a patron of the podcast, you get so many goodies. You are definitely the first people to know about the new episodes. In fact, you get access to a different video, a searchable video, that you could search by keyword that you can check out. You get access to so many other bonus videos and tips not shared anywhere else. In fact, I did shoot an extra video from the NAMM show, but I felt that this was best to just share with my patrons. So they got, they're the only ones that got access to it. Now, if you want to become a patron, head on over to our Patreon site at patreon.com slash everythings saxophone. That's one word. So P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash everything saxophone. All the info is there. Let's get to the episode with saxophone warrior, the saxophone warrior, Chris Ward. Hey, Donna here from the everything saxophone podcast. I'm really excited. My guest today is someone that I've known for quite a while,

6:36but we've never gotten the opportunity to get him on the podcast. And we've finally got him here after we hung out at NAMM extensively at the NAMM show, so I'd like for you to meet saxophone warrior, Chris Ward. He's an awesome player. He's got massive, crazy range. And he knows a lot about a lot of things. He knows a ton of about a lot of things. He's helped me with a bunch of things too. So welcome to the podcast, Chris. Thanks, Donna. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to get into it. Yeah, yeah, we're going to, we're just going to have a fun chat here, but I want people to get to know you first. You know, your background, when, when did you get started in music? Where did you, you know, where did you grow up? So yeah, let's talk about that. Your background. Yeah, I grew up in Connecticut in a small town called Westport, Connecticut, which I'm sure depending on what year you talk about people, I grew up there when it was more of a blue collar town. And now it's very much like super rich part of the country. But when I was there in the 80s and 90s, it was like kind of a middle class beach town.

7:40But basically I went to Staples High School and I started playing saxophone when I was nine. I started violin before that, but I didn't really learn any violin. I basically held a violin for a year and a little bit of piano. But I basically played saxophone for the first five years, sort of only at band. So it was basically one of those things where they bring you to a room when you're in middle school and they have all the instruments and they say, like, what do you want to play? And I looked at each thing and I just was like, I don't know. And I saw the keys on the saxophone and I was like, okay, I'll just I'll go for that. I didn't really have like an inclination or something that was exciting me about it. I just thought it looks cool. It has buttons on it. Let's just go with that. And then when I was getting ready to go to high school, we did this whole field trip where they bring you in and then they present like the performing arts will have like the actors do like kind of monologues and different short things.

8:49And then the jazz band played and that was my first time hearing somebody actually sound good on their instrument. And that sort of excited me. So I I approached that person. His name was Nick Ordway. He actually became a film director. I'm not sure I haven't caught up with him in some years. He doesn't really play saxophone too much anymore. But I approached him and befriended him and he got me my first teacher. But he also sold me my first Omni book because he had an extra copy of it. So I bought it off him. And that was kind of my beginning of my foray into like, okay, I'm going to actually put some work into this. And that was kind of like the jump pad to like trying to listen to as much jazz and other stuff as I could and get into it. You know what's interesting about that when I was interviewing Augie Bellow, you know, who I know from my my days working in Ciosid. So he got an Omni book when he was very young too. And we were talking about that as a video of him when he's really young.

9:51Charlie Parker. I don't know if you saw that. Oh really? I did. I got to ask him about it because I was just I finally I tried to go to his jam as much as I can. But because I I told you I hurt my back and stuff after NAMM. I finally made it out last week. We just posted some videos from the Bellow bash as he calls it at the groove. But yeah, no, I really I really like Augie. He's a great dude. I got to ask about that though because I didn't know that. Yeah, remind me I'll send you that link. We've got the link actually in the show notes for the episode with Augie. So you'll definitely want to check that out because it's really it's cute. But it's interesting, you know, it's interesting how both of you, you know, you got the Omni book and that's that's some of your first forays into into into jazz. And you would say that that's it's different than most people who would start off with like a blue scale or something like that. You started like, you know, heavy hitting. Well, so I I started there, but when I got my first couple lessons with my first teacher Fred Sherbo, who.

10:52He got me the believe it was Jerry Coker, the patterns for jazz book. Yeah, that was my first book where it was just learning triads and seventh chords and stuff. And I basically, I was learning those things, but I didn't fully understand at the time what I was learning. Because it's funny to look back on it now being like it's so simple, but for some people it just takes time to like digest harmony and like understanding stuff like that. Because at the time I was like prior to saxophone, my my musical tastes, I was very much into like electronic music, David Bowie, nine inch nails, like York, all these different artists. And then when I got into jazz, it very much became this hyper focus where I only listen to that. And I now in my later years, I've returned to like my true loves, which is like nine inch nails and like all my electronic elements, but I had these early days where I was just like polarizingly just studying jazz, like I was into bird, then I was into cannonball and then cannonball was like my favorite player.

12:04Then I started playing tenor and of course, when I heard Brecker for the first time, it ruined everything. So it was pretty much like have to study as much Brecker as humanly possible. Bob Berg and like just checking out as many players as possible in high school and then often to college and stuff. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So you you were a child of the nineties. Then I guess like, you know, with that whole nine inch nails type of thing, we into the grunge stuff too or more the electrical stuff. Yeah, so I was I was born in 82. So I remember I watched all of like when the what was it, the Buggies, the Buggles, when like video killed the radio star and like everything on MTV. So I saw it all, I saw like when Cobain passed when it was on the news and Kurt loader was on TV and like that was a big deal to me. I think I had never minds first record on cassette and like before the CD flip had had just been going. I actually was just my partner sent me this video that's talking about a micro generation of people born in 77 to 83 where we've experienced like the first 10 years of our life was analog and then we had the shift to digital.

13:19It was kind of an interesting take on it, not to get on a diet travel weather, but like, yeah, it was just like interesting to think about going through like vinyl to cassette to CD to MP3s and such a short period of time. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting to just to go off subject as well, but like at the Grammy Museum out here, they were showing the evolution of everything and you got a chance to hear. The differences between all of the different media, you know, I lived through that, I lived through all of that stuff too, but what's interesting going back to Kurt Cobain, like I remember I was in my car when, you know, they announced that he, you know, that he passed that he killed himself and I just, you know, I love Nirvana, I like Grunge and it was just really upsetting, you know, but it was definitely, you know, not a turning point for me in any way, shape or form, but it definitely affected me. I mean, I never forgot that, you know, but nine inch nails is cool to you know, I like that some of that 90's music as well. I tend to like like the Pearl Jam's and, you know, that kind of.

14:21Pearl Jam's great, I mean, I'm, I'm just I'm transpin my jokingly favorite sax player outside of Bowie because like I've seen a handful of times I just saw the them again last week, and I forget what year was I think it might have been 2017, 2018. in Brooklyn at King's Theater and he played saxophone on a lot of the tracks because Trent was a saxophone player in high school. So there's a lot of like hidden samples of saxophone throughout nine inch nails music, which I'm just finding out later as an adult. But knowing that Bowie obviously was a saxophonist and like how he incorporated into his music and then them collaborating on the tours that they did and are you afraid of Americans and just seeing like the pivot points, like those are the kind of sax players that like I look up to a lot, like outside of jazz, where it's just like they're handling so much music in like different ways.

15:21Interesting, interesting. And so I'm gonna go back though, you know, you're in high school, you go into the Omni Book then, you know, you hit all these other saxophone players and then Brecker, what was the turning point for you where you decided that you wanted to perhaps go into music or explore it more or get deeper into it? Well, that's a partially funny, partially pseudo sad story. What happened was I was doing a lot of visual art and I had a hard drive that failed that had my whole portfolio on it. And I basically I was like trying to figure out what I wanted to do and I had this, I was doing a lot of 3D art and rendering and different things. And I had it old, like Gateway 2000 computer. I can't remember if it was the Gateway or the Dell that I had, but I had a Norton Utilities installed, which will date me, obviously, how old am, but I had like Norton Utilities installed and it was telling me my hard drive was not readable.

16:24And I went through this whole thing, I had to format, I lost everything and then the issue happened again and then I found out I could have fixed it and I could have saved everything. So it was this kind of like detrimental moment of like, that was everything I would have submitted to a college. So I kind of had this moment of like, what am I gonna do? Cause I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point. And I just said, I guess I'm gonna go for it. And I only applied to two schools. I basically, I went to Ithaca for an audition and my grades weren't good enough to get into Ithaca. So then I basically, I doubled back, I applied to Berkeley, I got in and just kind of weathered the storm and got went to Boston and sort of embraced it. I'm glad I went to Berkeley cause it was a very diverse community and stuff. What years did you go to Berkeley? 2000 to 2005, I had extended my last year cause again, I didn't really have a plan other than I wanted to go to New York. But I basically, I stayed in extra year

17:26so I could audition for the Monk Institute and stuff which I didn't get in. I didn't make any of the placement or anything. And I just sort of figured out what my plan was. So I came to New York after that did my masters at NYU. Got it, okay, cool. And when you were at Berkeley, like what was your was performance your major? Or did you do something else? Okay. I did performance. And I basically, I took as many ensembles as I could, my favorite teacher was Hal Crook. He's a trombonist piano player. He retired. But basically, I fought really hard to get into his ensembles. Anyone that knows Hal or knows his teaching knows that it's like, he was a no BS kind of teacher that like, if you got in, then he respected you. And there was a amount of like, you had to put the work in and like, he would show you the way and everything. But like, he was my favorite teacher. I studied with Joe Lovato too cause he came into Berkeley

18:26and did some ensembles and stuff. And he was great as well. I learned a lot from Joe, but Hal was like, I really appreciated that he was tough but fair where he wasn't like a kind of like, some teachers will just say, you sound great. And it's kind of like, to me, that's not constructive. Like I don't need you to tell me I sound good, but I need you to like acknowledge, here's the assignment, here's what I want you to do. If it's not good, tell me it's not good. And like kind of like, constructively give me feedback. And I feel like a lot of music teachers, which is a bigger topic is like, they don't always want to teach. They just want to be like, that sounds good. And I'm just like, that telling me that doesn't give me a job, nor does it help me when you're on a gig and someone tells you it doesn't sound good cause you need to have constructive feedback like on the bandstand or whenever it comes up. Yeah, that's the power and the importance of constructive feedback. Not necessarily destructive, you know, where I've had the opposite experience

19:27where teachers, not private teachers, but you know, like I was classically trained. So there were orchestra teachers that, man, it was just bad news. I mean, they would just like really rip you apart for no reason other than it made them feel good, you know? And that's not the purpose of music. That's not the purpose of being a teacher, either. No, and I think it could be tough though. Like, I know we'll get into it in a bit like when I studied with Lenny Pickett cause he was a very hard teacher, but he came from a very, you know, tough background and he really worked to get where he's gotten to us as legendary statuses. But there's something to be said for just being stern but fair, but also acknowledge like there, like what your priorities are as a student to a teacher and knowing that you have responsibilities as well. And if you're ever complaining or something else, the teacher needs to check you and make sure like, you know, this is my job, this is your job. And we have to meet in the middle and like work on stuff. That's a great perspective because this is interesting.

20:31A lot of times people feel that when they go to take lessons from a teacher, they want to teach you that structure. They don't want a teacher that's necessarily necessarily going to be like, you know, especially, it also depends on your skill level. Like if you're advanced, you're going to the teacher, you have one specific thing you want to work on. You're not necessarily going to study with them for years at a time. It may be a few times or whatever. When you're just starting out, you want a teacher that's structured. You know, the teacher shouldn't be asking you what do you want to work on. That's like taking a two-year-old to Carvelle for the first time and saying, what ice cream flavor do you want? You know, they have no idea. But in terms of, you know, getting feedback but also working with teachers, the student does have a responsibility to be self-aware. You know, when you reach a certain point, like when you start getting more intermediate stage, I would say, you know, you're not going to necessarily control the lessons per se, but you do want to say in them. But you want someone with structure. But if you're just coming to them and expecting the teacher to do everything for you, you're not going to get much out of that.

21:34I think there's a line though. My personal preference for when I do teach is that I like to find out what the student, it doesn't matter what age they are, what level they are. But like, what do you listen to? Why do you want to play the saxophone? Is it a hobby? Do you actually want to play? Like, what's your deal? Because the one thing I wish I could have experienced differently is that when you get stuck per se with like a jazz teacher, depending on what their background is, they might proselytize like that particular school of thought. Like, there's very much like, if someone's really a diehard like Lenny Tristano fan, they might only listen to that part of jazz. And that's the only thing they're going to show you. They're going to show you Warren Mars. They're going to show you Lee Conex. They're going to show you Tristano and nothing else. And it becomes this thing where it's like, I get it. Everyone's got their things. Some people it's going to be Coltrane. Some people it's going to be the lineage of like, you'll go Coltrane, Steve Grossman, Dave Liebman,

22:36Brecker, you'll study this lineage of players. You have like the George Colin thing. Like, and then if you're studying smooth jazz, you'll have different eras of players. But I think for me, I like to study everybody because I feel like if a student comes to me and I'm not the right person, I'll say to them, well, I know who's in the scene and like, what do you want to do? So if you want to play smooth jazz, I'll be like, here's 10 of my friends that do this really well. Because I feel like it's owed to the student to also not. Like, I can show you how to ride a bike. I can show you how to do different stuff. But if you want to do a certain kind of technique that's not my wheelhouse, I'd rather direct you to that thing. Because a lot of players, you're totally right that they might not know what they want to do. So you can show them scales. You can show them intervals. You can find out what their tastes are. And that's totally fine. But if you see like a clear thing from the gico, like, I've had students that clearly were amateurs

23:38that just wanted to play saxophone and they were like, can you transcribe this Ken and G solo for me? And I was like, no, I can show you how to transcribe the solo. But it's not my job to transcribe it for you. And I love Ken and G. I have no, like, I have a lot of jazz guys hate Ken and G and all this stuff. But like, I love, never met him. But I know I like his vibe. I like what he stands for. Like how he's worked on stuff and his confidence. But if a student wants to learn something, and I'm like, I'll show you how to transcribe it. And then you can put the work in and learn whatever you want to learn. I totally agree with that. And the thing is this too. You're not, if you're having the teacher do the transcribing for you, you're not learning. You're not learning that really important skill of learning how to play by ear and developing your ears. And yeah, it's hard. Of course, it's hard at first. So I was terrible at it. Like it took me a really long time, even through college, where I slowly started transcribing stuff.

24:41And I had a good teacher who took a wind ensemble with him, I'm spacing out his name, but basically he said transcribe pop music. If you're having trouble transcribing saxophone on jazz or whatever, transcribe bass lines for pop songs. Do like the most simple thing you can do. So I basically, you start with that. And then I tell a lot of students to move on to like, Chet Baker, because Chet Baker is mostly chord tones with some approach techniques, slight chromaticism, and you can sing it. So there's like, my funny Valentine, you go and do his other things. There's just like simple solos you could listen to. And then I say like, then check out like Lester Young. Lester Young, a lot of pentatonics, a lot of diatonic playing. And you can get something out of that. Instead of like a lot of people will go to like, straight to craziness. And they're like, if they can't hear it, then they get frustrated. It's just like, well, you got to build up to it. Yeah, it's crazy how people, when they try to learn music,

25:48they don't know what they don't know. And so they're going to go for the hardest thing. And thinking that, and here's the thing, I love YouTube, don't get me wrong. But YouTube in a variety of ways has made it difficult for a lot of people, because when you're watching all these guitar teaching videos, and it's very visual, you know, I mean, you're supposed to be using your ears too, but it's very visual. A lot of people that don't know what they don't know think that they could approach the saxophone that way. Oh, let me see your fingers. It's nothing to do with the fingers. You know, it has to do with, you know, many other things when it comes to playing. So it kind of does a disservice in a sense. And it makes people think that, you know, just give me the transcription and then I'll play it. And then what they don't realize is when they play the transcription, and it doesn't sound anything close to what they've heard in the radio, it's because you use your eyeballs more than your ears. Well, a lot of those books too are wrong. Like, there's certain transcription books I learned later, like the Omni book too, that there's a lot of mistakes in the Omni book.

26:48And if you, there are times where I've gone back and re-transcribed Charlie Parker solos, and you learn a lot more about the phrasing, when you see it and write the phrases out yourself, and you sort of like notice like, oh, these chords were wrong when I looked at it, and now I have a totally different perspective of like what he might have been thinking about. Yeah, for sure. Or articulations, because most of us in those early transcription books, unless they're really thorough, there's articulations that are missing. Sometimes there's chord changes that are missing. I tell a lot of beginner transcribers, they, the one thing I was guilty of at two in the beginning is they'll transcribe part of it. And I'm like, you gotta do all of it. It's hard, but like, you gotta do the articulations, you gotta do where the chords fall, because if you're gonna analyze it later, like when you get into like bebop scales and theory and all that, the whole point of like seeing the chromaticism is where the chord tones, where the downbeats are,

27:51because then you see where the chords are outlined and everything else. Yeah, you know what, let me do this. Let's go back to, you know, you went to Berkeley, and then after Berkeley, you went to New York, right? So what, what was the plan for you? Were you gonna go into music full-time? Like, what were you thinking? I've always, I mean, still to this day, trying to do it full-time has been the goal. I mean, I've been fortunate to have other skill sets, which I'll get into in a bit, but I basically, I wanted to come to New York, and I think like most people, you have this false dream where most institutions don't actually provide you the skills of like how to get work. They just kind of, you go to college, you play a bunch of sessions, you hang with a bunch of teachers, and then nobody prepares you for the job market. Nobody tells you like what the secret is, what the hustle is, you kind of are left to your own devices to figure that out. So I came to New York,

28:51started getting my masters at NYU, and then tried to get as much information and hang with my peers there as I could, and did some gigs, but like nothing really like took off per se. My biggest gig, so to speak, that I started towards the end of NYU is that I met Felix Pastorius, and we started a band together. We had two bands, Hipsh Rassassins, and this other band called Social Experiment. And that sort of overlapped where my day gig career kind of started. And I've had two careers, so to speak, and sort of in tandem where when I was young, I basically taught myself how to take apart computers and put things together and sort of have this sort of like natural ability with technology. And I didn't go to school for any of that, but it ended up being that I got work as like a web developer and doing like QA engineering and stuff alongside gigging.

29:54And I've been fortunate to have both those skill sets. So I started working different jobs like that alongside doing stuff with Felix and his brother Julius, and we basically, we started our projects, and we had those going for over 12 years. We had a residency at the zinc bar, and then the 55 bar, which is long since gone now. And sort of just in tandem playing with other side people throughout throughout the city, doing wedding gigs, different stuff like that. When you, okay, so when you started working with Felix, talk about these projects, the type of music, you know, like your approach, were you both co-writing, like what was going on? Yeah, I was bringing songs in of my own. Felix had a bunch of stuff, because basically he's from South Florida, and he had a band together with the Bendy Brothers, Mike and John Bendy and his brother Julius. And they came to this city, and he got this residency, we were doing like Mondays at Zinc Bar.

30:57And coincidentally, I met Felix's cousin, who was working at 55 bar, and we befriend each other, and she just texted me one day and was like, I think he should meet my cousins, they're playing every Monday at Zinc Bar, and I just was like, okay, so I came down, and I sat in, and it just kind of rolled into this thing where I just started showing up, and learning all of their music just on stage. There were no charts, there was no anything, and it was kind of a really nice jump start, because music school was all about reading, it was all about visualizing and transcribing, but I did my ear training in college, but it wasn't like gig ear training. So it was great in a sense that like everything with Felix was like, there were no charts, it was just learn on the gig. So it was really great for that, because after like two, three months, I had everything just learning it on the stage, like I would take my phone out and just do like a voice memo,

32:00and just like take the crew recording home, and then I would just transcribed lines, and just come back and just know the songs. Okay, so is that, we all have our definitions of gig ear training, but let's talk a little bit more about this, because this is super important for a lot of people who, you know, they're so used to reading everything, and then they want to be in cover bands, and then they realize, okay, well here you go, here's the YouTube link, and by the way, we do it in a different key. And they're having that. That's a whole, yeah, I still to this day, I tell people this a lot, especially for wedding bands and stuff, is that like if you play Valerie, for example, I've done Valerie in like six different keys, it's like you don't know until you get on the gig, like what key you're going to play a lot of tunes in. And sometimes you're not told on a wedding band, because it depends on how put together the band is. If you're on a gig, they might not have it together, where they're going to tell you anything, or they might completely lay it out ahead that you're going to know all the keys,

33:00all the incidentals for the gig. But you kind of have to assume that you're going to be told nothing, and you just show up on the gig, and it's just like, oh, we're any flat, or we're in B, or we're in whatever we're in. Wow, okay, I tend to, I tend to take gigs where, you tell me the keys, you know? I mean, but it's, you take the call, you know, when you're getting called for club date stuff, it's kind of a, you know, you need a gig and you need to make money. And so when the phone rings, you're just kind of, you just, I treat it as you have to be polite, but you also have to make sure you're more, there's the commonplace saying, if you have to be more prepared than the band leader, that you always need to show up and just have it together where you know whatever, I believe you should know everybody's parts if you can, and just know like, what's the bass player going to do? What's the guitar is doing? What's the keyboard player going to do? So if you show up and there's like a curve ball

34:01or something's off, you at least know what, what can I do to save this moment? If there's a reason, I mean, horns, a lot of the time to save the moment is to stop playing, but it depends because like, there's a lot of gigs where you're supposed to come in and no one tells you what key you're in and all of a sudden you're like, how can I change this? I mean, there's so many songs like, I wanna dance with somebody where, if they don't tell you what key you're in and you start the song, it's gonna be either really bad or not depending on when you come in. Yeah, no, that can be a train wreck for sure. So let me ask you, let's go down this rabbit hole. Let's say someone, you know, they play fairly well, you know, well enough to be in wedding bands. Like what, you're giving us some advice here, but what's some more advice that you can share for people, share to people that, you know, that can help give them more success when it comes to, you know, you mentioned like gig ear training and, you know, doing these types of things. So when it comes to wedding band stuff,

35:03I basically, I think you have to accept that anything you want done or how you wanna be prepared, you should take care of it yourself. Like you should never assume, like if a lot of people like to film themselves when they play like, I have a camera that I mount on my iPad stand because a lot of these gigs, 90% of the time you'll use your iPad and you'll sync the charts that they send you or you'll have your own charts. And then the other 10% where it's like an upper echelon wedding band, it's all memorized. You can't show up with anything and they'll give you the charts ahead of time and just let you know, like here's the 200 songs we're gonna play from, have it all memorized, here are the keys. But those are like the dream pop gigs where you show up and it's like all off-book and all that other stuff. But generally, it's like on my iPad, I have like 10 different templates for each band I've played with where they have their own charts, their own keys, their own notes, vibes and everything.

36:05So I usually tell people that are new to it, here's the like 15 songs you should learn right away, like September, horn players, you have to know September. Valerie, respect, if you're a saxophonist at last, where it's either gonna be a trumpet player, you play in the melody and stuff. And there's always times, because you don't know when you're doing weddings and stuff where like you might forget something here and there, because unless you're doing weddings like every day, you're gonna forget stuff. Like I'm more of a summer wedding guy. So like there are tunes that I'll never forget. But you just have to, as the season ramps up, I start reviewing stuff for when things happen just so I'm always prepared, because it's songs that like, once you've heard it a million times and you've played it like a hundred times, there's that whole old adage of like 10,000 hours mastering something, I feel like if you played 10,000 hours of weddings,

37:05then like that's, you know, says something for getting into it. But I generally tell people like here's 15 songs, you absolutely have to know, make friends with rhythm section people, go to the wedding band showcases, find out where people are playing, sort of like in New York right now, there's the club, the red lion, a lot of wedding bands do showcases there. Also just be cool with people. Like if other horn players know you and respect you and you tell them you're trying to find other work or whatever, at some point someone's gonna need a sub and if they like you, they'll send you on the gig and you'll get a chance to go. And like aim to be professional, but know that it's not gonna go a hundred percent well, like something's always gonna go wrong. You have no way of knowing if you're gonna meet a really good crew of people or if you're gonna deal with problem people. And like there's all sorts of stories with dealing with problem people and agencies like with weddings and stuff,

38:05but generally most people I work for they're great, but you have to be prepared for how you're gonna deal with tough situations. Yeah, you know, it's just bringing back memories for me for a bunch of situations that I've gone through for sure. I wanna go back to those 15 songs. Would you also recommend for people to learn them in just about every key or their specific? Yeah, I mean, I think like September's generally, I've only played September and it's original key, but I have had different experiences with like every once in a while. Like Sir Duke doesn't always come up. We play superstition more for like Stevie Wonder songs, but every once in a while it's like when we do Sir Duke, I've definitely done that like three different keys. I can't remember off the top. I don't, that one only comes up every couple of years and then I have other friends and other bands where they're like I play that every, every gig. And it's very much like every company has literally their own 200 songs that they call. I feel like there's, everyone's always gonna play Valerie,

39:08everyone's always gonna play the Aretha Franklin stuff and like superstition, but then you'll have others where there'll be more 90s stuff or there'll be more Blink 182 and like there's always something depending on what the target audience is for that company because some bands they're targeting 20 somethings. Some you might play with they're targeting like 56 year old couples like you don't know what the audience is till you get on the gig. But for me, it's exciting because there's all these songs where I love what it's like 80s tunes or sometimes you'll get Louis Prima songs which I love Louis Prima and like it doesn't happen often enough, but like when I get on a gig and it's like Motown stuff, I'm happy. I love playing Motown stuff on gigs. Yeah, yeah, it's nice. I remember doing that not for weddings, but with some of the bands that I've been in because Motown, you know, and out here actually when I did some subs for concerts in the park, that was fun, you know, because it's fun, it's fun music, it's fun music to play, it's so rhythmic, you know.

40:08Well, let me now go into another area over here. So when did you start getting into, when did you start studying with Lenny Pickett and then getting into like extended range and stuff? So by the range has always been a dream goal since I started. I don't know why, I think maybe I had a friend, I think who played me tower of power and that kind of triggered it and it was just kind of like how on earth is this guy doing this? And like how can I learn how to do that? And then that's how I started getting my neighbors to hate me, which was super fun, but basically, I think the dream seed was planned when I was in high school and I started hearing Lenny with tower power, like squib cakes and like soul vaccination and all the early famous souls of his. But when I got to NYU, I found out he was teaching and it was an opportunity where I could actually sign up

41:09to study with him. So I was fortunate to study with him for a year. I had lessons at his house, I had lessons at school. I put ensembles together where he played with us and it was just a very diverse experience of hearing him in different contextual situations but also just like having this man's bell three feet from my head and just experiencing his range and cause he could go off the piano. He has like a tenth off the piano and just experiencing it and just be like, whoa, that's like, what is this? Can you share any tips that stand out or maybe like the first thing like when you first started studying with him? Well, I'll tell you the first lesson I had, I had just moved to New York and financially things weren't great. I was, I think I came in and I was complaining about reads

42:09and like I didn't have enough cash to buy breads and stuff and he was just like, do you think I give a shit? It's like, this is your responsibility. Like you have to show up prepared and I'll never forget it and I was just like, that's it, that's what I needed. That's what I wanted to hear. I didn't, I don't like teachers that are like, you sound great and we move past it. I want somebody to call it out and set a precedent of this is what I need you to do. And so from then on, it's like, I have a whole system that I do that's sort of an extension of what he showed me where I get my reads, I sign and date them when I start them. And like, I've been soaking my reads in water and mystery since 2006 and I've worked on different things with that but like, I have a whole process and like, I started signing and dating them like he did because he showed me that and just knowing rotationally because he rotates like 20 reads, whatever he's doing.

43:13Like, because you have to be prepared because like he's on TV. So it's like, you have to have your setup be what it needs to be. Yeah. But we did that and then we started working on diaphragm exercises where all of his extended range is based on stuff he developed on clarinet but it's also an extension of doing long tones on the lowest range of the horn and learning how to build your diaphragm muscles so you can sort of push the air stream to sort of jump off and go into the extreme range. One thing though that he tried to teach me and I've had other players try to teach me is circular breathing which I can't do. And I've recently found out I've been trying to get it fixed but I have a deviated septum and I have a big blockage on my left side and I'm pretty 100% sure it's what my whole life why I can't circular breathe is just that I have this blockage

44:15where I can breathe fine on my right side but I just, I can't circulate anything and it's just part of like what I've dealt with and I have asthma and stuff which it's like the saxophone plans always help me with breathing but it was just nice to be validated last year going to the doctor and then seeing them go do the endoscopy and just being like, oh, I have a blockage in there. I can't afford to get it fixed but at least I know what's causing all the issues and stuff but I've always wondered like if I get it fixed am I gonna be able to circular breathe which would be hilarious if I could but at this point I'm kinda like I do the best that I can but Lenny does his circular breathing on his lowest notes and he can do it for like 30 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever he's doing and that helps him execute pushing into the extreme range to like the degree that he does because he has the endurance because I can get to a certain point

45:16but because I can't continue to push that's my kind of like limit that I'm dealing with right now is that if I could push more air I could go higher but I'm dealing with the fact that because I'm at a point where I can't circulate the air to go push more I'm sort of at that, that's where I'm at now with what I'm trying to work on but basically you do long tones on your lowest note to where you start to feel a tug in your diaphragm and that's sort of like how he was teaching me that like that's the point where you wanna push from there like in your diaphragm and I've done different exercises over the years like there's the whole like the bugle call from like top tones and Lenny does variations of that as well where you're just kind of finding the point in your lip when you're circulating like overtones back and forth in different like partials you can feel almost like a pain or like a prick in your lip and it's kind of like trumpet players

46:18you can just sort of feel where it is yeah this is, I play trumpet too so this is a lot of, yeah especially you know a lot of great trumpet players that can play really high they play extreme low pedal notes pedal tones and it's the whole that's the whole purpose of it it's not you know it's also written in some music too to be honest with you it's some classical pieces but you know you need a you know a massive amount of air to get those pedal tones to come out so this is so interesting to me yeah I mean I feel like I'm only scratching the surface still like I studied with them like 20 years ago at this point which is wild to say that it's been that long but I feel like a lot of what you showed me that I've been putting to practice has only been really coming together in the last couple years like I've always played up there but I feel like I'm making like progress like I've always like been in it for the long game but like I feel like just the last two, three years things have like shifted and now I'm sort of at another level of like

47:19okay what am I supposed to do now what's like the next the next part of this what what do you feel brought on the shift? I think just like I've changed my setup a little bit because I was searching for a specific thing I play Theo Wane mouthpieces I've been playing them since COVID since 2020 and prior to that I had been searching for a specific kind of setup and I knew what I wanted but I wasn't able to find it and I've been thankful for my relationship with Theo Wane team who has helped me sort of go on this journey to find what I'm looking for and I've settled on a mouthpiece now I'm playing an old Chiba 2 okay and I love it and it's just it's given me everything I wanted and I just feel like all right I don't need to change anything I'm just gonna stay here and that's a good feeling because a lot of people are gear heads and they're like the goal over the place

48:21and they're trying to find what's the next thing what's the next thing what's the next thing and like I just want to I would just want to find it and stick with it yeah no I hear you on that one and you know in some ways for a lot of people it's a lot of fun to try out new things and it's all cool it's good but I feel personally you want to stick you want to find something that's gonna give you close to what you want and you stick with it because the stability is the thing like Bob Reynolds like played the same mouthpiece of what 20 or 30 years or something like that he only recently changed because I think what did it chip or something yeah he played that when I knew him at Berkeley I mean he was my favorite player at Berkeley for sure and yeah I remembered when he was playing on that piece back then and just seeing him again at Naminit in a while it's just like he's he's always been amazing always had it together engine yeah no he's he's he's definitely definitely got it together well okay so then Lenny Pickett then you know we we explored that and when did you start to get into

49:23I'm gonna call it extended techniques but also using pedals and exploring that route so I got into the pedals trying to remember if I tried anything in high school it might have been my first year at Berkeley I think I bought a multi-effect pedal off of somebody and I couldn't make it work and I can look back now and I know exactly why it didn't work but I tried to do a bunch of different things and it just I didn't have the right gear to match what I had and like looking back on it like everyone at the time it was like you would use a clip on microphone someone if you were lucky would tell you to get like an impedance adapter and for those who don't know basically you have to take an adapter in certain situations to match the voltage of the signal to make it line level because you're taking a mic signal into a guitar pedal and you have to match it to a guitar level

50:25so when it goes out it sounds balanced now nowadays it's a very different experience because I have like an intro mic that I use which is made by Victor Egea I don't know how he actually says his last name but he makes these mics that go inside the neck of the saxophone a lot of people use them and he's a wonderful guy and his product is just game-changing for what it does but it goes inside the horn so you don't have to drill like Brecker used to do and like different guys where they would basically have like a different neck and they would drill a hole in for the pickup and do it that way so basically it allows you to use a mic in between the mouthpiece and the neck and then you can just run the cable down the horn and you can plug directly right into the pedal board you don't need anything it just it matches the signal okay this reminds me of I had interviewed Doug Levin and he was like okay

51:25yeah okay Doug Douglas he built one of my boards I used to use some years back because I still prefer having my pedal board up high at keyboard level he tried to convince me back then that he wanted it on the floor and I was like I don't work that way so I have a smaller board that I built myself where I use like a laptop stand and I just I keep it so I can have it at waist height because I prefer to tinker with my hands for like different patch sounds and stuff but where's it going with that? with Doug yeah with Doug and yeah no he had he had built a board for me when I was with Felix for hipster assassins and it was a great board but then I just my COVID happened and I like I wanted to downsize because carrying gear and like I wasn't sure the climate because it was a really big pedal board that I had and it was hard to travel with because as you know it's like when you travel it's weight is crucial

52:27or you're just like out the door and if you have any cases that are over 50 pounds you're screwed it's like another bag fee or an overage fee yeah but not only that too though you're worried about your equipment getting ruined you know especially sensitive equipment okay so I'm glad that you did you know yeah you did have that connection with Douglass because he knows yeah prior to that though I hung with Ben Wendell for some things and Ben was actually one of the first players who kind of set me on a different journey where I think when I left high school I had an audio technique a clip on and I always had problems with it and I didn't realize why until later was that the gain structure on it was just set to super it was just like the most sensitive mic ever like it just was the loudest thing and I don't think it sounded great and then he got me it was a Sennheiser I'm probably going to be wrong here but it was like a 603 or something

53:28it was kind of a plastic clip on but he basically showed me how he would take that and then basically shoved that into the bell and just like keep it keep it in there and those mics were inexpensive and they worked great for a while my problem with those mics though is that they always broke I think I broke like three of them over the course of three years like the structural integrity of the wire it just wasn't great for me after that I saved up and I got a DPA clip on which I still have the 4099 and then I found out about the intro mic and once I got that it was all over but I've since gotten a pedal from this company in Canada called Templow which has two inputs so I can blend the signal of the clip on mic with the intro mic so I can turn off one signal if I want to do like synth effects and then I can blend the natural sound because the intro mic's internal so you're not getting any room sound

54:29you're not getting of the other colors and that kind of is the only caveat using that mic that bothers me sometimes is that I want to hear the outside sound sometimes or the key sound or something else implied so with this pedal I literally can just plug in both mics blend the two or cut one off and just go strict effects then put the DPA back on and have like a blend when I'm doing like reverb and delay effects and then if I'm doing strict synth shut off so I don't have any bleed over because when you're doing synth effects and like fuzz effects you have issues by overloading the signal chain because you're getting the outside influence so it won't be like a clean sound yeah there's a lot there's a lot that's involved with this and you know one plug for Doug I'm gonna I'm making a note here too that I'll put the link for that episode with Doug he'd like to give a masterclass like two episodes masterclass on this stuff and it's really interesting

55:30you know I honestly have not I've not used pedals I guess the types of gigs that I do you know some of the types of gigs that I do when we're playing you know old-style R&B pedals yeah yeah for sure but you know I what I'd like to do though right now is give me a second here because when you said about how you have your pedals up higher that reminds me of one of the videos that I wanted to share so let me do this for a second and those of you that are an audio I mean you're gonna hear this but those of you in video you're gonna see that the hipster sassons and this is landscapes actually this is one of the ones I grabbed like at this point in this video like this is a really cool line a couple of things here that you're really playing that's cool but you know we're getting a look at like some of your equipment on this yeah that's the that's the board that Douglass had built for me that we designed together got it cool yeah let's take a little bit of a listen to this and maybe I'm gonna go back a little bit more about I'm gonna go like seven minutes and or so

56:30and you know you can start to hear some of the the pedal effects and some is really cool playing so check this out so like taking that two note theme developing it you know putting it in different spots you know yeah developing it for the most part

57:30but even some of the stuff before that with some of the sound effects and then you know then going into you have some split tone effects they are for sure yeah you know what um talk a little bit about let me let me stop the share for one second talk a little bit about split tones it's one thing you know people say well how do you do split tones and all that kind of thing you're talking so you're in plant the multi phonics or the what do you all right so yeah that's true because you know a lot of time split tones you know like a lot of times people do it on an altissimo note and then they'll split yeah but multi phonics yeah so I mean I I was never able to do I never put a lot of time doing like the sort of I guess it's cliche at this point the the breaker affectations like on the altissimo A where different players would try to do those multi phonics sounds um I don't always think about my upper register for doing those kind of sounds because when I develop from then

58:30that I'm trying to remember it's going to make me feel bad of how much time has passed since that video um because I see that I'm still playing a Van Doren piece which is a very long time ago um I think from then to now I've changed how I think about my upper register because I do a lot of things now where I use my ear and when I go up high I'm sort of like dialing in melodies on what I'm hearing to the chord changes and it's a little risky but it's like I can hear where certain things go back then I can hear where my upper register to me it was weak I felt like my my palm keys and stuff when I listen back to that I just I can hear at least thankfully the growth from then to now of like where things were um but I hate to not give you like a good concrete answer but I don't think I was intentionally thinking about

59:30split tones or anything and those those moments um at that time I was using a T.C. helicon pedal it was the pedal sitting on the top um it's the voice live touch too and there's a great effect on there where you can do stutter effects where I can play lines but then there's a touch bar on it where you're able to sort of hold and drag different notes um I've sort of evolved like I miss using that at times but it was a great pedal but the problem was it was something that like using it in conjunction with other pedals because it was a digital pedal I was running that pedal as my preamp essentially so when you're when you're structuring a a pedal board especially with horns you run it the first pedal is like your mic preamp or whatever is changing the signal to match the impedance level and stuff and I'm sure

1:00:30Douglass what it length on all of this and essentially at the time him and I were coming up with issues where the T.C. helicon pedal had digital grounding issues where sometimes I'd play at zinc bar because the electrical wasn't grounded at zinc bar where I would get like a I'm sure you've heard this like a USB distortion because it's a digital pedal so I'd have to put like a ground lift on so it would turn that lower but then when I put another pedal in the chain it would cause it to recycle back so I would have all these issues depending on what club I was playing at 55 bar wasn't so much of an issue but it was like every venue was a different experience even if I had like a DI with a ground lift to deal with the electrical it was just something to do with that pedal so I don't use it so much these days and I've sort of found some other pedals that I can do stutter effects with but at the time

1:01:30I was doing like the T.C. helicon stutter effects then with like a delay pedal in the mix so I would build off of like having like one note and then trying to harmonize on top of it sometimes and I remember the I also had like a bunch of striming effects pedals on my board at the time like I had the Belante which was a tape delay. I don't think I used it on that video it's been a while but I had it was a tape tape delay pedal where I could play certain things and then you could speed up or slow down the phrases you were playing so if I had like one phrase if I played really fast I could slow it down so it was like sounded like a fog horn or something and then I could do it on top of it and do like wow kind of experiment with like just layered effects and stuff that's really cool and I'm just thinking to myself like you know I guess the way you find out about this stuff

1:02:30is you know talking to people and checking out websites and seeing the types of things that you like. Yeah, I mean 55 more was great for being able to experiment with all those things because I've definitely learned how to do more with less and I think there's nothing I don't regret any of the times where I would probably go nuts or be overkill with my effects because I was like learning on the bandstand because that band you know we did a lot of gigs together but we weren't really a rehearsing band so most of what we did was just all like on stage and just like trying to work things out each gig listening to each other and stuff and that was the only time I could practice my effects because I would I would iron out difficulties at home and then like when I hung with like Douglas and stuff, he showed me a lot of things just with like EQ and like matching signals between different chains and stuff. He tried to push me

1:03:30in a direction that wasn't quite where I wanted to go but I learned enough from the challenge point of where I wanted to go after the fact. Like I do some MIDI programming for some of my pedals and like if I'm working with like an indie rock band sometimes they use like software like Ableton Live and indie rock bands will play tracks that way with live instruments and so I'll ask them like what's the what's the click set to some of these not all bands use click but a lot of bands do for like popgicks and stuff and I'll dial in my delays and stuff to that click track so I can do like MIDI stuff with that but that's like extra level stuff players don't always think about these things but for me I sort of I want to think like a producer on top of like when I work with a band like for wedding band stuff I try to make it fun like I was doing a lot of Tina Turner songs like the old Tim Capello songs like the Lost Boy Sacks player where we do like

1:04:30you know the best simply the best that song and I would listen to it over and over and over again I would learn his soul on it and then I would use my effects rig that I brought to the gig how can I mimic the sound of the recording so if there was like certain reverb or certain timbre or how they EQed him I would try to like create presets so that when I go to the gig I can just turn that on and then give it that sound like the studio sound because I would try I would try to treat like some people they go to a wedding gig and they're just like it's my cash gig I don't really care I'm going to show up to the gig go home and for me I would be like I'm looking at that partially but I'm also looking at that on that actually I'm looking at that actually I'm looking at that or I'm looking at that you had an opportunity to how can I work on my craft while I'm here and bring out my gear and like work on the mixes work on the stuff

1:05:30even if I'm not going to use crazy effects on the game still be able to mix myself and make it sound more like a record playing live and stuff Some it really depends on the client and it depends on the band. I have like I have really small rigs I can bring up but bring out but I have gotten to a point as of late where it depends on my schedule and if the want need is there and if I really like the crew because sometimes you don't want to just show up and bring a whole thing. I usually give a heads up to the band leader after a couple gigs before I just say hey I'm gonna just show up with all the stuff because like I've done that when I was younger and it's not always like okay what's all this and it's just kind of like you know we we all have to like try to push the gamut at some point like I had a three and a half year period of doing gigs on and off with Mike Stern at 55 bar and he's very much into horn players that are like out of the Brecker contemporary like generation

1:06:34and I had that influence but I also was trying to bring my aesthetic and after a couple gigs I had asked like can I bring some some effects out because he has other horn players that play with him that do use effects on stuff and it took a bit but I did I was able to do a couple gigs with it and it just felt like at least he gave me the chance to like bring some of my elements into it I mean it didn't lead to any tours or anything but like it was a good three and a half years of like on and off maybe like 12 to 15 gigs that I had done and that was like another great 55 bar learning experience of just like being able to experiment with a legend and do his music and like just learn learn things on the gig and stuff. Not only that too the really important point that I wanted to bring out you know the people are really interested in using pedals and and effects don't assume when you do a sub as you're subbing on a gig or you're just getting started with a band that they're going to be receptive to it at first. So

1:07:37you really you got to get to know each other first because most people are you know not most some people are not going to be used to that and you know you want to start off on a good you know with a good relationship. Yeah I mean if if you're playing like punk rock or rock or whatever you say use pedals they're generally going to love it. I haven't met I have never met any if it's like a commercial band it's a whole other thing like if you're doing strict weddings like you just have to feel it out it's a kind of case-by-case basis. What you did I noticed you did some gigs with Lord Huron right. Yeah that was a that was a couple things and a recording that I wish had turned into like a bigger thing. I really enjoyed working with them but basically I had a friend from college who gave me a call and put my name in the hat and I did we did Seth Meyers Beacons Theater and a Spotify recording in like the course of like four days. It was like very

1:08:39much like a quick quick thing but I was able to use my effects on the recordings that we did for Spotify. We did a cover of Harvest Moon and one of their songs and it was great. It was just a really cool experience. I was able to use my rig. I was a little upset because a year later there was like a Rolling Stone article and it just set horn player with guitar effects and I didn't get any name credit. I was just like I was like oh there it is there's the humble there's the humble card because like sometimes the writers they don't go the extra mile for like trying to find out the names of everybody and like Spotify doesn't show the liar notes for anything. That's frustrating because I I've I've always fight for name credit for stuff and some people would get annoyed about it and now it's very commonplace and people are very much like oh you got to get your recognition because you see films that come out and there's no credit and it's like full orchestra

1:09:40as no one's there's a hundred players not getting credit and like a Netflix movie or something. Yeah it definitely was a really good experience. I mean we did the recording and then they called me for a thing called live from here which was Chris Thiele was doing it was the extension of trying to remember the previous host it was like a long time running radio podcast show um and then I did like some recording stuff at their own studio out in LA and then that was about it because then COVID happened and yeah just kind of pushed everything to the wayside and so but it was a great experience like I learned a lot playing with them for the times that I did. Cool I have to ask this too because I loved REM and so you worked with Michael Stipe? Yeah and funny funny enough I hadn't seen him and like six years and I ran into him over the weekend which was wild. He didn't record. He didn't quite remember me which I do not fault anyone at that level who I'm like god forbid you couldn't remember everybody but

1:10:44I a guitar player I've been fortunate to do two records with Alan Johannes who's like super super famous in his own radio with played with Queens of the Stone Age and his band 11 and stuff. We've worked on two records together and he's passed me some work for some singer song writers friends of his and he had this wonderful band called Drink the Sea. I think that's the name of it and put us on the list to go and I didn't know what we were walking into. I had no idea what this band was going to be but it was Alan and like some other heavy hitters from other bands and Peter Buck the guitarist from REM and it was like this kind of Americana film music very like dramatic but very like through composed and it was the set was two hours and 15 minutes solid no break it was just they they had films playing behind them and it was just it was amazing but it was just like I was not prepared this level of music but in in my head I was like oh I wonder if

1:11:47if stipes going to be here and then I saw him go to the bathroom when he came back I tried to wave he didn't he didn't see me and then I went backstage with Alan after and I was able to say I didn't remember him but it was totally cool but it was just funny happenstance like so many years later to see him because the record we worked on with this band Fisher Spooner it was the last record for that band they were like a huge band in the early 2000s for like club era stuff and like had some really big hits in the electronic scene but my friend called me up and said I gave your name to an engineer you might get a call I think it's going to be big you should probably go and I was like okay and it was this is a little context for a New York story I did not have the best night that night I got assaulted by a guy on the train it was it was like a crazy dude and it was like a whole thing and I was at home I seen my ribs because the guy just freaked out and

1:12:48tackled me for no read it was just a wild thing that happened on the train and I'm literally like I seen my ribs I don't want to leave the house I'm just like I'm having like a cocktail or two and I'm just like I get this call they're like hey you play saxophone yeah can you come do this session and I was like cool when you need me to come and like now and I was like I was like oh dear uh what do I do and I just was like okay sure and like yeah okay we'll send a car because I forgot at the time you could call uber's ahead which they hadn't I did that was like a new feature like I didn't know you could like send a car like that from from uber it was like when uber first came in New York it was like super early okay and then they're like okay cars gonna be down stairs in like five minutes and I was like oh okay oh cuz I'm like I don't have time to make a coffee or anything and I just grab my stuff I go I get there and the first person I meet is Michael

1:13:48and he just like nice to meet you I'm like okay cool and they're like do you want some wine sure and then I look at the the the engineer the guy the assistant engineer and he's like do you need anything I was like coffee a lot of coffee just like try trying to like wake up a little bit so I'm like double fisting coffee and wine and they just play me the track I learned the parts on the spot um it was a little like erratic for me because like I usually I'm pretty slow with learning so I'm like they weren't complicated stems that I had to listen to but it was just like in the moment of like what am I doing right now I'm literally tracking this thing with Michael's type this band I don't know and he basically was like give me this which is what he wanted and then he let me do some passes and just said just do whatever you want to do okay and I and I was like I felt that was really awesome and respectful and I've heard Bowie would do the same thing with like players

1:14:51in the studio where like he would have what he wanted but always make sure to ask the player to give their input because you never know what the player is going to do so I did that and then said bye and I got a call I think a couple weeks later to go back and we did some more tracks and then we did a couple shows we did like celebrate Brooklyn we did Brooklyn steel and then they went on tour did not take me for that because it was just tracks it was basically like guitar tracks drums and the lead singer and that was the that was the band touring so no horns on that but it was a wild experience what was this what year was this that's a good question that might have been 2015 2016 don't don't quote me on that I have to go check when the record came out okay um it was a while it was a while ago that's cool oh my gosh that's so cool yeah it was it was for me it was like not everybody could appreciate because the band

1:15:56it was definitely like not not a jazz thing and just very much like a club scene band that was like huge and just like had a very intense audience and I loved all the people I met doing those gigs but it was very much like you tell jazz guys about it or like you know it's just like okay you know it's like it's not not the normal aesthetic yeah but you know what though it's like you know going back to the beginning talking about like some of the music that you listened to some of the 90s music and REM was very they were big in the 80s but also like you know one of the biggest albums was in the 90s as well you know so it's huge you know it's definitely huge and you know even when you mentioned the Americana stuff before and and I could definitely get that I can definitely see that I'm curious how did you how did you come up with the name saxophone warrior so I used to run back when I didn't have a kill he's 10 the nightest and I weighed a lot less from from COVID and everything but I was doing marathons very slowly but I got into running

1:17:01and I basically was looking for something that was not uh my name Chris Ward which was sort of uh I felt it was too average at the time which coincidentally I'm flipping that right now um which I'll get into in a second but at the time I was like there's so many Chris Ward's there's like surfers hip hop rappers like everything I went online I would see all these different names and I was really into running and going to like run community meetups and stuff and I just sort of had it and I was like the sounds pretentious but I'm going to run with it just because I was like it resonated with me but like it's like it's not I'm trying to have it not come from a place of like arrogance or something but more of like I was working on myself with running and doing something and I wanted to kind of have a stronger thing um I had a hilariously bad caricature that I had for a while of like a he-man version of me that I had an illustrator do with like a sax phone

1:18:06up in here and I was like I always laughed when I looked at it and I was like this is really bad I'm like I need to do something else but it's like what I had and then now my partners are photographers so we're kind of we we did a shoot recently and I sent you one of the shots of it that I'm I'm very confident I'm very happy with and aesthetically just like feels more me than like my previous things I've worked on but I've been doing my my kind of like hyper focus on like hobby and stuff is like getting into watches like the watch community and stuff like wristwatches and things and I did some some gigs for an English company called Christopher Ward so I worked with them and I have a couple of their pieces and it's it's given sort of a new confidence towards I guess as I get older trying to like love myself more if you will and sort of like looking at it of like I love Christopher Ward as a brand and what they do and like we all

1:19:10connected really well on like working together and it just sort of felt like okay as I'm getting older like this feels good and it was kind of a fun funny how that came together kind of happenstance yeah so it's so it's a branding change and it's really just bringing it back home when you think about it but the funny thing is with the watch company you know I was just thinking sponsorships and whatnot but yeah you said you work with them that's really that's that's interesting actually how how how rare is that you know it's just been something because I go to a lot of their events so I I have a band I put together as a trio and that's sort of the goal is to do more watch events and community stuff because at least it lets us bring our art into another form of art and then sort of like combined the passions and stuff that's cool no that that's some good stuff I was wondering about that so let's actually you just mentioned that you're putting a band together and it's a trio and I want to make sure I I capture this but what upcoming

1:20:17projects do you have for this year or next year yeah so I have a bunch of tracks I'm working on with a producer out in Los Angeles his name is Riley gear and I met him through a friend of mine uh who was playing at this place Bakari LA folks will know that spot that they do a lot of live music and things and I just went and I was sitting in and I met the drummer we hit it off and then I went back a couple months later and we started working on tracks of mine we have like a kind of multi album idea planned out it's sort of timing and money and different things are factors but we've gotten a couple tracks done and it's sort of I've I wrote a bunch I was trying to write every day for a year it's probably like four and a half years ago and I would just I wouldn't write in a conventional sense of like how a lot of jazz musicians per se would write where I would take out staff paper and I would sit at a piano and just write stuff I would just multi-track ideas

1:21:22I had I would use my saxophone or keys or whatever and just sort of try to write almost like pop music ideas just like whatever came to mind and just sort of try to multi-track those ideas and lodge it because I'm not a very good multi instrumentalist I'm a very poor piano player and I just do myself with my pedals and things but I took these demos to Riley and we just we had a good report because he is a multi instrumentalist he plays over 20 instruments really well and like when we got in the studio it was great because it was literally like I have my ideas and then he could just go in the other room and be like all right how about some bass how about some drums how about this and just kind of track it all out and then sort of like it was it was a good workflow and so I a lot of my writing kind of has like somatic like film elements to it because I'm very into film okay and so I'm kind of I'm gonna try to get it out this year in some fashion but I've been making

1:22:22a lot of calls to people that work in like sync licensing for like film and TV because I'm not sure if I want to try to push this as like solo artist music or if I want to try to push this and try to get it into like the sync community because with sync as I told you earlier before we started our session is like you'll get told that they have to have a different mix all together than what your release is because they might want to take certain stems like they might want the bass stem or the drums and mix it differently because if it's for a commercial they might want certain things to be different so a lot of sync licensing companies might want to release your track themselves so you might sign off certain percentage of your rights and certain things to them is it I've heard very different experiences from very different people on on what that entails but I don't want to rush into putting something out because my records I do have out I've never been like a hundred percent happy with each I'm like I'm glad they're out there but it's like

1:23:27this one I really feel like I'm trying to treat it with care and patience and not just put something out to put it out because I want to I want to connect it with the right audience and if I can get it into a sync market then I know like if let's just say dream scenario it gets used on a show or something then I know I'll get more people hearing that and then someone might say oh I liked that I want him to do more for me or or something I don't know I'm curving off the cuff of how it might work organically but that's sort of what I'm envisioning that's that's actually really cool and I was actually there's a couple things I was going to mention it can you so you know let's say you have the the seeds of something right let's say you have a track of the seeds of something if you I mean you own the rights but you're saying like let's say you want to sync that you know maybe into a film or part of a TV show and you have to sign do you totally sign away your every company's different so but essentially what generally happens is your

1:24:33library of your songs are added to a bigger library and then when people scour that or search it if they happen to come across your stuff and they choose your stuff then it'll get placed right but you're but it's still a basis of luck of like of who's going to push it if you have an agent that's pushing it or or other things but essentially I've heard different things like I think you always keep your publishing but it depends on the deal okay got it okay yeah you know what afterwards I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions and I and also refer you to somebody as well if you don't know about this person but you know what I wanted to do and I again thank you so much for your time but let's do a little quick like nam recap yeah please I think it was a great name I think we had a really productive there was a lot of stuff that happened and just

1:25:34connecting with people like I thought it was a good name it was good for me unfortunately I can only be there one day this year and that's the first time actually that I've missed most of nam since I started not just the podcast but you know it since I moved out to California but my aunt turned 100 and so my god wow yeah I know so she wanted to go to Vegas so the whole family and you know we're talking a lot of people showed up and my aunt's daughter my cousin she's very she's well known in the industry of sports marketing and stuff like that so you know she knew a lot of people and we had celebrity chefs and all that kind of thing it was really cool so I missed it for good reason yeah it was it was a lot of fun but it was cool to catch up with you and then when Augie came I didn't expect him actually didn't tell me that he was going to go to nam but when he was yeah I knew he was coming because I talked to his drummer and I made sure I wanted to bring him by the booths and like hang with them for a bit so it was good to see them there no it was cool and

1:26:34because the thing is that the last time that he went this was before like I okay so the story is that you know I watched him as he was getting better and better and I knew his mom as mom worked in the same building as me and so I watched him grow and there was one point between 9th and 10th grade where it just clicked for him and I said to him and we talked about this in the podcast I said you know you're gonna be like the next day of cause you know because he's got that it factor and he's got the looks and you got the sound and it's just he's a humble person it's a good guy and so before people knew really what he could do he came out to nam he borrowed my mark six he was playing at the the sios at the sios booth at in the back wall when I was doing the podcast with rule on brown and key leaves and stuff and he was doing some you know some stuff over there as well so it was pretty cool so I didn't expect him to be here this year so that was great to see him again it's been a while and you know just hanging out with you guys and you know going to a variety of

1:27:34the booths as well but also seeing him try out the Theo one amount pieces you know and just some of the other stuff but there's there's definitely like those cannonball saxophones oh my god those were yeah I tried I tried a couple of those I mean I'm with Yamaha and I love my horns and I'm gonna stay on them but I tried a bunch of great stuff and nam like the the Eastman horns have come a long way I remember when they first started yeah the original ones I didn't gel with but the the mincer horns that they worked on are fantastic yeah um the signature from Selmer obviously yeah there's just there was there's always a bunch of Trevor Trevor James the you know I got my horn the same year that Adrian Crutchfield did like a whole bunch of us were there but they've got an intermediate series that's really good I tried that a couple years ago and they expanded their line to now have a piano and berry which is great but their horns are solid

1:28:35I mean the Trevor I'm looking at my horn right now this horn I play this much more than the Mark 6 it's just so powerful you know I really love it um but those cannonball horns and I interviewed uh Randall Clark as well man they're just stunning they're beautiful and a lot of people really love the way that they played that was cool and then Jody's quasar mouthpiece for alto sax that was that crazy and and I you know I again I interviewed him a bunch of people like what I interviewed him at the very beginning of nam and every person that tried it out it's like sold sold sold it was just kind of cool when you saw that well yeah I didn't try those out um I did say hi to Danielle I didn't get a chance I just because in the craziness my second day was pretty wild I was on the opposite side and like uh guitar and amp stuff and hanging with with some Yamaha family um so I did not get a

1:29:36chance to do I had like my my list of meetings and stuff which I got to all of but then just making sure I tried everything was sort of by like happenstance if I made it so they were certain there were definitely and I and I felt good about that because usually I also I remember one name I had all these ideas and then like I just got nothing done and I just like walked around but this this one was good and there was some some exciting just like surprises I had a really good time with the uh Odyssey or however you say they're team for that many controller they were really nice people and then with better sax that team was really nice um all my friends um and that were on the other side for like uh Jazz Lab for the sax holder stuff their dear friends I've I've had for a while yeah yeah yeah um but yeah so Sylvan wasn't there this year so I was expecting him Sylvan was there Sylvan but not the first day at that fan dorm okay uh no no Sylvan from

1:30:36um from Jazz Lab so no no he was not he was not there yeah yeah that that was the unfortunate thing so I I forgot his name was that no I I know both the girls their dear friends from from Jazz Lab but I I have only met him once so I that's why I can click I every time I think Sylvan I think Sylvan at Vandoren that's right that's right and also dear friends so I keep forgetting yeah he's a great guy too and you know I know they've got he had a couple new things as well there was a lot of great things yet unfortunately though a lot of the mainstays were not there um right I didn't see sia was here wasn't there was there wasn't the rovner was not there either I spoke to they I thought they were were they not no they weren't I spoke to um Lynn and and George and they were not there this this year I definitely missed them for sure you know I definitely missed the people from leisure um you know hopeful that they'll be back next year you know unless they were they don't do the jam anymore like no one's really doing sessions anymore that's stopped a while ago um it was the cost of it too yeah yeah but um but you know like even the people at Barry Woodwinds they weren't

1:31:42there um like I said no I wanted to try their reads because I I ran into Jason Arsa who plays their their reads I wanted to try all the synthetics I could because I love my regotties but there are times where I wish I had a synthetic because to me soaking my reads creates a stable variable yeah and and baseline and I was just like I would love it if I could just find a synthetic that could dial it in because like years back leisure used to be able to do like quarter cuts and like different things to dial in and they don't do it anymore and so I I feel like I need to find a company where I can just be like I need literally this specifically this and then maybe it'll work out but it's it's hard to find that okay yeah I'm gonna just write a note to myself we'll talk at the end yeah when it comes to that no for sure and I mean there was some the biggest thing though and and and I covered this in a previous episode I did not expect this at all I'm walking

1:32:44around the corner and all of a sudden I see auto link with Theo wanted yeah yeah it was incredible surprise um I'm really excited for the team and just everything that's happening that they put a lot of work into it uh with Matt and Brian and and Theo like it's it's really exciting and I'm happy to to see how it's gonna grow because I I love working with them and the amount of work that they put in for everyone is like not all like not everyone sees the back end of it and like I think it's exciting it's exciting well not only in that end but if when you think about and I was talking with Matt about this on the podcast and even when I spoke with Theo too it's like he's come full circle because he did all that work he did all that kind of work really studying and analyzing all these different mouthpieces especially the the auto links and the Myers and now right now this partnership this is the best thing that can happen truly I think

1:33:45what's also for legacy too I mean it's yeah I can't think of a greater company to improve and protect the legacy because I think a lot of us who weren't fortunate to come up in that era of like Florida links and other things where what you got was at this incredible quality that when I was at Berkeley because I never really got into links but I did play them for a bit because everybody played them at some point was you know you figured out what worked for you and didn't work for you and every link I ever bought it would be like the rails would either be uneven or something would be off and like I think quality per year would be different and now knowing that Theo's involved everything is going to be perfect everything is going to be like every piece that goes out they'll never be any issue of machine quality anything it's just going to be like his mastery their mastery their legacy and just perfection which is super exciting and that's that's the you know honestly that's the

1:34:49goal of the NAMP show it's not for people to brag it's not for people to show off it's for these companies to make these kinds of connections and to grow their businesses and to and to grow together and this that was just really that blew me away I I couldn't have even predicted that you know and Matt was saying to me I've been dying for months trying to say something and he couldn't you know and it's like big relief for him Matt Ambrose to you know to talk about that I'm really happy for them you know it definitely it was a good show definitely a lot more people than the previous year you know it's still not at at pre-COVID levels but it's what people don't understand it's insanely expensive to have a booth at NAMM and that's why like some of the people that normally are there were not there and that's the shame of it though that's the other thing too like they you know well the industry is in flux right now because everything's going to e-commerce and no one's really sure of the investment points because also especially in in our industry if you're an

1:35:53instrumentalist it's still technically the smaller part of the industry of a whole when it comes to the music industry because like accessory sales is a huge part but you look at the other side of the NAMM hall where it's like the metal companies and you've got you know the AMP companies guitar and more money is still put there and what's necessarily happening on the other side with like jazz or other instrumental type of music so I think it's it's great and we're still fortunate to be able to see that we still have a place for like if we're not doing all the pop gigs and the other things like it's it's just the fact that at least we're there is what matters yeah and I just know also as a trumpet player I you know I see less and less brass stuff you know it's really that really hit me this year you know it's a shame because it's you know it's not fair and I barely I mean BAC is still there I think they were still they had a booth and um but you have a good point they're

1:36:55like shires I don't think it's ever there I don't know who owns shires these days or like what's I don't either but I'm not I'm not caught up on what the what all the brass brands are you know yeah but it's but you know the thing is that if you're a brass player there's like less choices you know and it's a shame it really is but you know like the namb show it's great to go to because at least for me you know I become friends with a lot of the owners of these companies and you know they're wonderful people and just I love bringing that to people I love saying hey this is new this is what's coming up check it out you know all the work I know that Jody Espina puts into everything he's just incredible you know and the same with everybody else um I love you know showcasing that because that's that's so important uh but it's it's also it's distressing when I hear how people can't be there with a booth because it's so freaking expensive you know and and you know I guess the reminder is too I mean namb isn't about it's about these companies making the connections and to be honest with you like not seeing like a peak musical

1:37:56peak music stands there or even sios I didn't see which is shocking just shocking but you know not seeing those companies there it doesn't allow them to maybe maybe make some more connections you know with people it's a shame it really is and I do hope that maybe next year it'll you know they'll come back that would be awesome but but listen Chris I wanted to thank you so much for your time this was this was a lot of fun you know we had a lot of fun hanging out at namb but this was really cool to do some more catching up but also to you know see what's going on with you and stuff so thanks so much for being on the podcast yeah thank you Donna I know we we've talked about this for a handful of years now so I'm glad we finally got to sit down and chat cool awesome Chris Ward is one of the most knowledgeable people that I know he knows his stuff he knows his gear he knows a lot about sound effects about altissimo about so much stuff and I hope that you got that

1:39:01and much more from this episode in fact I'd love to know what was your biggest takeaway from it you can respond to the saxophone our saxophone podcast dot com website the blog post for this let us know what you like the most you can go to our youtube channel respond there you can go to our facebook page facebook dot com slash everything saxophone you can also we would love this give us those five star reviews on apple podcasts we'd really appreciate it and we definitely would give you shout outs for that in the beginning of the show I mentioned his 12 year Chris's 12 year collaboration with Felix Pistorius and what you're listening to in the background right now is landscapes written by Chris if you're loving the show what we would love to have you support the show

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