The Rules with Dylan Mulvaney… (S3 E18 “Cock-a-Doodle-Do”)

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5:15We are here with the fantastic Dylan Mulvaney, and we are going to re-watch now more specifically do our re-watch of Cockadoodle-Doo, the finale of season three, we're going to try to be less ADHD in this one. If possible. No promises. But it's a good time. All right, so this, to me, is in so many ways, it has the highs and the lows, right? Like it has so many great things, and then it has this slightly insane and cringe-worthy Samantha storyline, which we will get into specifically, but it also has just incredible storyline, especially for Carrie and Miranda, I think. And the reason that I love it is so many different things, but I mean, first of all, there's things I 100% did not remember, like this craziness that Carrie hears roosters crowing all night and all day, which is also odd. And it wasn't a sound machine. No, they were real. They were real. And they were in a veterinary rescue.

6:16They were rescued. That story finds out next door on the upper east side, which, okay, I've never heard of this. They got rescued from cock fighting, right? Which is a real thing that there are so cock fighting things going on, which is insane, right? You know, I've never, I don't know of any rooster rescues in New York City. Well, it sounds like there's a hole in the market. I mean, here we go. I should go back and ask them, like, where did you guys come up with this? Because usually they have to have... Did we even see actual roosters in it? I didn't think so. She does go to the vet, right? Yes. And then she feels bad when she finds out that they've been rescued, right? From the Bronx, I feel like she says. Yeah, the line producer probably said no on that one, probably seeing the real roosters. Probably. But then they said, we'll just stick them in the basement. Right. And she's like, no, no, no, she feels guilty that the poor roosters are going to have to go to the basement. But also, she never hears anyone really tell her that it's roosters not chickens. Right. Because then when she talks to big on the phone, she's like, there's chickens and they're crowing. And she's like roosters. She's like, whatever. She's going crazy.

7:16She is. Losing her mind a little bit, but it's adorable. And also, I think it was really hot that summer. That's what went through my head many times. Oh, and I didn't tell you the my story about the roof. This is the one thing that I remember the most vividly. I didn't even remember that awesome scene at Kyle and I did laying on the wall. Really? I had no memory of it. Alan Colter, the director brought it up to me in his episode as something like he was bringing up the things that he fondly remembered as being like good moments that we did together. And I was like, I don't, I don't remember that at all. He said, I really loved it because at the time, he said, we had tried to block it many different ways. And then finally, we were like, none of this works. Let's just lean against the wall. Let's just lean against the wall and just talk simply, you know, which I think really was powerful. So honest. Yeah, it was great. It was amazing. And I was so happy that it stood the test of time and was awesome. And I don't even remember like online, we put Kyle and people are like, why did you even give up with that character trait? And I'm like, I don't know because I forget the things, right?

8:17I vaguely remember the the the impotence, but I didn't remember that then we have sex once we separate. It's all very interesting. But the roof, the roof back. This is the roof scene at the end of the episode, the roof scene at the end of the episode with the very, very much used photograph of us where they were like, laugh, everybody laugh. And so we're like, ah, it was so hot that the tar on the top of that rooftop was melted and ruined all of our shoes. No, on the bottoms. Yes. And it was the end of the season. So sin and I had gotten an ice cream truck because we knew it was hot, right? To bring ice cream for the whole crew. But we were on the roof. It was like 30 floors up, the elevator broke, people. No. So we had to walk. We had to get the boxes of ice cream and walk them up all of these stairs. It was probably melted by the time you got up there. It was a little melted, but no one cared. No. They'll take whatever we could get. So happy to get anything cold in any way, even slightly cold up to the tippy top.

9:17And the other thing that I saw recently, and it really, really just brought back so many memories for me because I do remember, when I talk to people on the podcast, they're like, oh, you guys were the biggest hit right away. That was not our experience. Our experience was that we had to work hard and we had to do press. We would talk to anybody for years and years and years, right? Someone like E.T., maybe your E came to the set that day, that sweltering over a hundred degrees day to talk to maybe all of us, but definitely Sarah Jessica about who, what is the show? People were still asking us what is the show, right? This is season three. And she gives the most adorable interview that is on Instagram. She just, she's like, well, I play Carrie and I write a sex column for the observer. And I have girlfriends and they're in the show with me and there's Charlotte and she believes in love and she's a little bit more, like so by the book, like straight up to the meet. And she tells the whole thing, like just in one day, which if you ever see Sarah Jessica

10:19now in an interview situation, it's a much more complex situation going on in Germany. She's really thoughtful. Yes, she's really thoughtful. Any, any easy answers. No. No, but back then, that's how important we felt like it was to sell the show. Yes. The people understand, like we're not. There's a log line of this interview. Exactly. We're not real sex, you know, on HBO in the middle of the night. This is what we are. It's adorable. And she's wearing that whole outfit. She's wearing her. The little, like, it's like a diaper kind of. I see. But it's the cutest diaper you've ever seen in your entire life with like a halter. Anything off. And it's like a creation of she and Patrick. You were kind of giving, like 13 going on 30 five percent, which I think is like similar years. Yeah. And we're back in it, babe. I know. We are back in it. I also feel like Pat, Pat has got me in a short skirt, which is really against my, you know, what I want to be wearing. And you can tell by the fact that I literally don't get up off that thing. I like wriggle around a little bit. No, I'm proud for you. I'm like, worried about my legs. I'm just really worried about my legs, the whole scene.

11:21That's all I can think of when I watch it. And I just remember like just the heat radiating up from that car, you know, and everybody just sweltering and sweaty and trying to be jovial and and carries got to get up and do her turn. Do her twirl. And she was all worried because she's wearing her nude fishnet, which was like a big thing at the time. We were all out trying to find the nude fishnet. We're very used to it. I haven't seen those yet. I don't think this year. I haven't either. OK. Anyway, back to the episode, back to the episode. So let's just do Charlotte because that's going to be the easiest. OK, fair. She was. Yeah. Yeah, it's Charlotte. We come to her at the coffee shop. That's the first time we see her. And she's sad about tray and she said about that she's separated and that who wants to be divorced at 30, whatever she is at the time. And they're kind of trying to, oh, they come over to my apartment and I'm packed, which was weird because I guess we haven't gone through the whole thing where I end up getting his apartment. Right.

12:21I hadn't remembered that at all. But there's a pink lamp that I still have in my own bedroom. And there's a mirror that I had for many years that moved with Charlotte around that I got to keep. OK, which is nice. Yeah. I love that pink lamp. But I don't remember this at all. And it's so sweet that the girls come to help me unpack. And it's a very Alan culture scene because we're all moving in and out of frame. But the frame doesn't really move. And it was a really hard thing as an actor to remember, like, oh, I've got to be to this place by this line. You know what I'm saying? Yes. But that was his specialty in a way. So we always knew like you have to be like, have you thinking cap on, like, have enough coffee on the day that Alan culture is there so that you can do the choreography exactly. Yeah, the choreography. She's on Broadway. Here we go. I hope I can live up to that fancy. Then, then. So I say, oh, I have this scene where I like walk to the doorway and say, like, wouldn't it be great if men didn't exist? And then we wouldn't feel disappointed. I mean, have you seen this thing about this article that this woman wrote about that people

13:22are embarrassed to post their boyfriend's now? Yes. It's so great. It's kind of iconic. Right? But it's how wild that we got to that from where she was in that doorway. Right? Because like back then, you know, and this is someone who desperately wanted to get married, right? But then who's obviously so disappointed. And every other character had almost said that in a different context before, but we never thought we'd see. Never. Never. And Charlotte's like, it would just be so much better if there were no men. Then we could just feel good about ourselves. And that's kind of what we're seeing in this interesting 2025 version of like, we can make our own living. We've got our great house. We've got our great friends. We've got our dogs. We're traveling. We're in it. We're in it. It's kind of creating boundaries and relationships in a way that like of being so clear about what it is you're looking for and what you want in someone else. And if they don't meet the mark, then why? Your character did that. I think probably the clearest of being pretty specific.

14:26She was certainly very specific. I think her, the main lesson in Trey, which I didn't realize was as complicated as it is, right? And we're only partway through it by this episode. But, you know, her issue was that she wanted the picture book, right? Like, you know how there's going to be that scene where he comes to take the picture with us. Yes. Even though it's really over. She wanted the home and garden. Because he understands. Yeah, exactly. He understands how important that is for her, right? And that is something that's really important for her, but that is an empty picture, you know? The lesson is that learning that your picture perfect doesn't make you happy, right? Thousand percent. And that's why then Harry, you know, shows up on the scene and does make her happy. Thank goodness. Because that's what she really wanted and needed, but you have to be smart enough and know yourself well enough. Right. She was manifested too hard and I think for sure, she was so focused. And I do think that when, when, when women focus, they focus, you know, 150%, and they do get what they want. It's just not necessarily, they don't, they don't want what's actually going to make

15:28them happy. Right. But they don't know this till they get it and find that out, right? And that's what I loved about Charlotte. Yeah. And that was the plan. I mean, our writers, this was, they told me that was the plan and I was like, okay, but then once Kyle came, I was like, but you guys, we love how we can't let him go. But he played it so well. So brilliantly. So brilliantly. So brilliantly. He's so good in that scene when we lean on the, on the backboard and I ask him, you know, whatever it is. It's like the lower part of the wall and I ask him, like, did you actually ever really want to marry me? And he says, well, I don't know that I really wanted to marry anyone. Does he say that? Something like that. He said, I just thought I should. It's nice to hear a man saying that. Yes. It's interesting, right? Like the, and it's a different flip of your coin because it, you obviously were like, I should get married. I will get married and it should look exactly like this. So he almost, you were guilty of a similar crime. Definitely. Which is so perfect. So perfect. Yeah. So perfect. And then he says, very sweetly.

16:29And I say something like, well, why did you then? And he said, you know, because I felt like I had to, and society's time, yeah, I have to. But also I didn't think I'd ever find anyone better than you or whatever, more perfect or something. So sweet. Sad though. He liked her. I know. But it's sad. But then we carry on next season. Oh, yep. We'll see it. I don't remember. I don't know what happens. Okay. Because not all the crazy sex hasn't happened yet. No. Oh, my God. I mean, just once, the one time. Yes. Right. But can I just say, I don't know if I should say this. But I mean, I could watch Kyle and I kissing all day long. Oh, it's, it works. Let me tell you. It chemistry is great. And it was so, I think it was, um, as an audience member, we, we wanted, like, like, it was like a, I wanted, and I was in it. And I wanted. Right? Yeah. It was really interesting that you've built this relationship up with this, uh, this relationship up with this other actor and you haven't done any of those sex scenes, whereas everybody else is meeting someone the first day. And then so you're obviously so comfortable with Kyle at that point, and then it's like

17:30you're finally doing what everybody else has been doing the entire season, which is a much way to, it's very hard to just meet someone and have to jump in bed with them on the set. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's very awkward. And so Kyle is probably one of the few that you got that to do that with for sure, for sure. I've been making out with him for many, many months at this point, journey means. Yeah. But also it was very tasteful the way we do, you know, this particular, like he comes in the door and then it's craziness, but then we just fall out of frame, which is cute, I thought. And I think to land that next moment of, of the, the honesty of it so that you, it didn't feel camp, you know, it definitely, no, I know Alan, Alan culture did a great job directly. Good director. I know he is a good director. We always loved him. He was one of my absolute favorites. So it's just why I had him on the pond. That's Charlotte. And yes, so he confesses that he says he hadn't felt the sex drive since before they got engaged, which is interesting because you know, Charlotte was the one who was like, I'm going to make him wait because I think this could be the one, which I think is such a misguided thing

18:32of, of waiting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's misguided to wait a little bit, right? Like I don't think, I think that if you don't wait at all, it could, yes, tell us. Oh my God. The rules. Oh my God. I had a whole last year situation last year. Well, I went, I was a, I was a bride's maid. I know. I know. I know. I learned so much. Please tell me. I was, I was a bride's maid and my god sister's wedding. Okay. And it was, you know, me, this trans girl living in LA and then the most wholesome sort of, you know, couples that had gotten married early 20s. Right. Wow. And we're on a boat for her, her bachelor and they're, and I'm telling them I'm the only single one, you know, and they're all married off. And those beautiful blondes you've ever seen and they go, you need to read the rules. We've all got our husbands because of the rules. Oh Jesus Christ. And I'm going, well, I think I Amazon it to the boat. I think I got a dinghy for 599 extra, but I mean, and then it became my Bible because I said, well, if it worked for them in Colorado, it's going to work for me a trans girl

19:33in the spotlight in LA and it did not, but one of them was that you can't have sex until like the third or fourth date or something and it's like, well, that's hard. And, and then I, and there was other ones though where I, obviously, I think we both love to talk, but it was like, you can't ask a question before, like you, and then you can call them first. That's messed up. I know. You can't, you can't visit them if you're a long distant, like, and I lived by that for so long until I like, I forget what the turning point was, but there was one night where I was reading it and it was towards the end and I was like, this and it, and it, because it was like, it literally was how to take away all of your parts of yourself in order to be a good wife or like a potential. And then I was like, but then what happens when you actually get married and then they find out who you are. For sure. But maybe is it kind of, do you think Charlotte would have read the rules? Oh, yeah. No, Charlotte's got a bunch of books. I can't remember if I held the rules up.

20:34She's got a bunch of books. She's got the book about how you need to look at it like a corporate, you know, job, right? She's got to make cold calls and whatever, call her married friends, husbands, and ask them to set her up on dates, whatever. That was a weird one. And then you got set up with the married guy who was your friend. Exactly. Exactly. But that's how I meet Tray. But yeah, that's true. That's true. And Charlotte's like, what? Which I thought was funny. But I do think she had the rules on her bookshelf at one point, like maybe first or second season. I mean, there was a time where you couldn't escape that book. It was everywhere. Yeah. It's the perfect time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've been wanting because the Hyundai Getaway sales event is happening right now. Enjoy great deals across Hyundai's entire award-winning lineup, like the Tucson, with the next level tech and safety features, or the Santa Fe, with three full rows of premium comfort standard, or the bold and super stylish Elantra, or go all electric

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22:41And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to eBay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery. And I found the most amazing muggler jacket and the costume department loved it. And it felt so good. And I still have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior Saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. eBay has millions of pre-loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay Authentesty Guarantee. eBay. Things. People. Love. Pleasure technology has come a long way since the days of Charlotte, York's rabbit addiction. Leading the way is womanizer.

23:43World famous first line of suction toys. Immunizer is the original inventor of what is known as pleasure air technology. It enables the stimulation of sensitive nerve endings with the help of gentle massaging air vibrations so that women can reach an orgasm in a very short time and often several times. So far, 98% of users who have tried a womanizer product were able to climax. Their latest invention, the womanizer enhance combines their signature air technology with traditional vibrations. It is also the first toy to reach 100% orgasm rate during its user testing phase. With a range of toys across varying price points and a five year warranty, whether you are playing solo or with a partner, a womanizer product is the best thing you can add to your self-care routine. Use code Charlotte, that's C-H-A-R-L-O-T-T-E, and go to womanizer.com, spelled womanizer W-O-M-A-N-I-Z-E-R.com

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26:59spring home. Also do you think this idea of her saving herself for marriage? She obviously had a had sex before. Clearly. And then did I remember that correctly? But did you think that she was like, this is the one I want, so I'm going to do it differently? Definitely. Well, I think she tried many things, right? Like how you do when you have this goal, but you don't know how to get to it. And so she tried many things and she did, I think, having her head in general, I've got to keep him. Because she doesn't, they just make out for weeks, man, and I won't let him in a house or whatever. It's crazy. But do you think it would have gone differently if she would have had sex with him? Well, I think it would have gone differently because I feel, I feel, what do I know, right? They are fictional characters, but I feel like what would have happened?

28:00So he says in this scene, I haven't felt this sex drive since before we got engaged, right? So that means when they got engaged, which Charlotte engineers, you know what I mean? Like that was Charlotte's doing the timing of it, right? Maybe he was thinking it, but he's not going to do it, right then. And then he buys her the ring, because she's powering and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So it was all kind of backwards in some, all righty, yes, the nightmare, the nightmare word, yes. That was a, people just said that to us all the time for quite some time. Um, I think what would have happened was they would have been free to, you know, define their relationship as they see, and they would have been free from whatever constraints shut him down, right? Which has to do obviously with his mother and whatnot and your pressure to, and my pressure on my timeline to get engaged. And then you're in, I do think that something that happens, and I hope it's less so now in 2025, but I'm not sure if it is, you know, there, you do go into a husband, wife, mentality of like, oh, we're doing the things that are expected of us.

29:03And that can feel very stifling, you know, for people. So I think if they, if Charlotte hadn't made him wait and done all these things, then he would have been freer. And maybe they could have found each other in a freer way in a more complete way, right? And then hopefully things could have still gone along. I don't think that he's that kind of guy where he needs the, the, um, pursuit, you know, what I'm saying? I don't feel like he's that. I feel like he's a good guy. But he does seem to have some kind of deep seated issues as well that those families do breed him that way. For sure, for sure. For sure. And not a, not a family where you're talking about your feelings freely as Charlotte also, you know, Charlotte or no, not funny, not funny, McDougal, she got a smoke and be mean. But Charlotte at one point earlier in the show says, you know, in my family, we don't talk about our feelings, we play tennis, which was true in his family too, right? He's like that whole tennis, he's, yeah, anyway, so who knows, who knows what would have happened? Okay. We will never know. But I think what's great is whatever's going to work on the fourth season where apparently we have a lot of sex.

30:03I don't remember this. Well, you're about to. I guess I am. I'm excited. I'm excited to see it. But I did really love how we, how we leave it there with us just talking really honestly, which is really, really nice. Okay. Let's just ignore Samantha for a second because we have talked about her for a while. Let's talk about Miranda. It's so good. It's really good. It's so good. And if you think about the whole trajectory of Miranda, including the films and then just like that, she's struggling with the fact that she's judgmental. It's so great. And I love her so much. And it's like triggered in the weirdest way of her ordering food and feeling judged. Yes, because the girl laughs at her and knows her order. Yes. And then she goes down there to confront this woman who's laughing at her and sees her laughing in the same way with someone else over nothing. And then she realizes that it's not about her, which is like so true to life. There's so many of those moments where you, like, I think it's somebody, a lot of people say it, they're never thinking about you the way that you think they are.

31:05No, of course. We're also like individual that it's, we're not thinking about other people that we're not. But of course, you take it personally. Yes. If you feel like someone's clapping and of course Miranda would. You ever have those conversations in the shower with yourself where like you, it's like all the things you would say to a person if you were and then those conversations never happen. Yes. Yes. But that's what I love so much about Miranda and Carrie. Like when they do get in this fight in this first big one ever, it's the first, well, there is one earlier on that's also about big where Carrie calls her from a phone booth in the rain. Yep. And then you think she might be calling a big, but then she goes and she meets Miranda and she's all wet and she's coming to the coffee shop. That I think was the first fight. Yes. It wasn't as in depth as this fight, this fight to me, all of it on the table. It was so good and so risky like I never fight with my girlfriends. I'd be scared to death. I shouldn't say never. Occasionally, a fight will happen. The tension is like, so high because I feel like it's very risky to say things like this

32:10to your girlfriends because that's your safe space. It's your safe space and you might be blowing up your safe space. Because literally Miranda says to Carrie, I do not want to hear about big again. And I do not want you coming to cry on my shoulder, you know, and she's not wrong, right? But then in the end of course she is wrong because of course you're going to be there for your friend to cry on the shoulder. And if the friend has to go through that, the friend has to go through that. And I think that that was such a growing pain moment of like because it then it leveled the playing field in a way because I think they both got everything they needed to have. They're just not in the most productive way, right? But in a way that then their friendship, when you get through something like that, it only becomes richer. Absolutely. And that's what is so incredible about them because they're both so strong in their own ways. I mean Miranda's kind of more openly strong and judgy, but Carrie's very strong as well, right? And she stands right back up to her in the vintage shop, you know, the whole thing in the vintage shop. I had for a stubborn all about it. All the girls can be stubborn.

33:11100% that's very true. That's very, very true in their own ways. It's very, very true, very, very true. All right. So wait, oh, they run into the boyfriends. They run into the boyfriends. That was so crazy. I didn't remember that. I didn't even remember that Stephen Aiden become friends, but it totally makes so much sense. They both have their dogs. They're both like regular guys, right? I mean, it's a simple, I don't think so. I kind of seems like you might be there. I think it's the delusion of the girls because that's, I feel like me and my girlfriends, we operate out of delusion and that that's why we've gotten where we are. Because we're like, well, of course, these guys are just having drinks thinking about us and talking about us. Right. They're not on a date with other women. Right. That's so sad. But when those girls come out or just wherever those women are, and they hits you and it's the most embarrassing thing and you fall from this pedestal, and then when they're bumping, they don't know where to do with their bodies.

34:13They're so funny when they can't get out. Oh my God. Have you ever had any weird run-ins with X's? Oh, I'm telling you, I'm sure I have. I don't even know. Your questions are too good. And scary. It's scary. Yes. It's scary. You can tell by the deer in the headlights. I can't think right now. I mean, yeah, I generally am relatively friendly with my exes. How about have you ever worn something that you knew you were going to see your ex? And so you're like, I'm going to look like this. Well, for sure. I mean, it's been a while. It's been a second. Yes, since I've been concerned with any exes, let's put it that way. They're like, I'm kind of over at all. Do you know what I mean? Not yet. I'm concerned about exes. Yeah. Well, because maybe one of them could still be up the one. Have you, no, have you heard, is it Opalite? I'm going to talk to Taylor Swift's song right now. Okay.

35:14She has this line. I love it so much. Is it the beginning of your heart, Opalite? Is it Opalite? She says, I have this habit of living in the past. I think she says, thinking about my exes, my brother calls it eating from the track. It's a trash. Honey, pull the trash can out because I'm, I'm hungry. No, no, no, no. I don't know if you should do that though. No, no, no, no. It can be a waste of time. And then I wrote down a quote from this episode, and sad. I wish it was a Taylor Swift lyric. But this one was the rear view mirror. The relationship appears closer than it. Right. here's closer than it appears. Listen, I'm a master at this, and I just need to tell you, don't waste your time with this. Okay. If they're gone, they're gone for a reason. They're gonna come back. Don't let them. You need to be moving forward. This, this, take it from me. I've spent a lot of time waiting for people.

36:14In the way that Alabama guy taught me, he was like, you're a woman. Yeah. I'm also now, Kristin Davis has taught me that I don't need to go back to the bad ones. You don't, you don't. No, let it go. They're gonna come back. They're gonna say, but the rear view mirror for Carrie. Yes. I think is really interesting because you start to romanticize it. Of course. Once the time goes on, you're like, wait, what was so bad? Right, but that's what I do love about Carrie because Carrie, in this, this is the episode where they go and have lunch at the boat house and fall in the pond. Yes. Which was like a very big deal, and she was that incredible. I think it's a Richard Tyler dress. Mm-hmm. Which I almost, you think it's gonna be the naked dress because of, she's about to be wet in it. Definitely. It's lunch and it should fall on and it's better. It's better, but I remember the stress about them falling in the pond. And they had like hydrogen peroxide to like pour because it's green. It's solid green that pond. Like you don't wanna go in that pond, do you know what I mean? People said such a great thing that they were like, yeah, we're gonna do it. So they had, we had like first day there and everything and then she cuts her foot in the pond.

37:16No. Yes, she cut her foot in the pond. She had to go and get a tetanus shot. And then this is another thing that I remember happening because I wasn't there that day, but I remember, like if there was a big day, you're worried like how's it going? And I think Sarah and I might have had our blackberries at that point, the original ones, like the tiny little ones, yeah, and we would text all day, you know, and I was like, so worried like how's it going? How's it going? And you know how they fought? They fought so beautifully in the water because he kind of comes into concern. And she's like, ah, and then her physical comedy is so brilliant, you know? So she's like very gorgeously, slow mo goes backward at her leg kicks up. Well, the paparazzi had been there. And they took a bunch of pictures. And then later they reached out to her people and was like, well, we have pictures of Sarah Jessica falling in the pond and she wasn't wearing underwear. And you need to pay us for these pictures. And Sarah Jessica was like, I was totally wearing underwear. What are they talking about? That's psychotic. I know, this is how it is. Okay, this is how it is. And I remember the stress and I was so stressed out like, yes,

38:17what could those pictures be? And she was like, I was wearing underwear. Don't even worry, I'm not even worried about it. And I was like, you are stronger than me. But, you know, they didn't go anywhere. Did they prep the pond in any way? No, it's huge. You see the pond in the back? So it's hard. There's nothing to be done. No, they had doused them with hydrogen peroxide like over their heads. I hope they got a good rap gift for that. I don't think so back in the day. I can't think of what the rap gift was. I don't know. But then part of me, I think because I'm so optimistic and just wanna do everything twice, I'd be like, oh, I get to fall. I'm one of the few people that get to fall in the pond. I mean, I do think they felt it was special. Okay. It was so, we hate the word iconic because everyone used to use it back in the day and now people use it every other sentence or whatever. It was iconic. It's the perfect time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've been wanting because the Hyundai Getaway sales event is happening right now.

39:18Enjoy great deals across Hyundai's entire award winning lineup like the Tucson with next level tech and safety features or the Santa Fe with three full rows of premium comfort standard or the bold and super stylish Elantra or go all electric with their breakthrough SUV, the Ionic 5. You can't go wrong with whatever model you choose and getting away with a great deal is just the beginning. Because every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty which means you can shop with confidence and drive with unrivaled peace of mind. So get down to your local Hyundai dealer and get away with a deal so right, it almost feels wrong but don't wait, the Hyundai Getaway sales event won't be around for long. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

40:20Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes shopping used to feel more fun but here's a confession, are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on eBay because on eBay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit and when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real I went on to eBay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Muggler jacket and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior Saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over, yeah those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover.

41:20eBay has millions of pre-loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay authenticity guarantee. eBay, things, people, love. Pleasure technology has come a long way since the days of Charlotte York's rabbit addiction. Leading the way is womanizer. World famous first line of section toys. Womanizer is the original inventor of what is known as pleasure air technology. It enables the stimulation of sensitive nerve endings with the help of gentle massaging air vibrations so that women can reach an orgasm in a very short time and often several times. So far, 98% of users who have tried a womanizer product were able to climax. Their latest invention, the womanizer enhanced, combines their signature air technology with traditional vibrations. It is also the first toy to reach 100% orgasm rate

42:22during its user testing phase. With a range of toys across varying price points and a five year warranty, whether you're playing solo or with a partner, a womanizer product is the best thing you can add to your self-care routine. Use code Charlotte, that's CH-AR-L-O-T-T-E, and go to womanizer.com, spelled womanizer, W-O-M-A-N-I-Z-E-R.com for 20% off site wide. I have to tell you guys about Hill House Home, the brand behind the viral nap dress, the one with the signature smocking is both flattering and comfortable. What I love about Hill House dresses is how versatile they are. I just got the Scarlett Midi nap dress and I can wear it running errands during the day and at dinner or party that night. No outfit change required and it's not just dresses. Hill House started with bedding in 2016

43:24and their robes and pajamas are so soft, made from the same cotton fabric as their baby onesies. They also have the cutest styles for women, babies, and kids, including monogram-able robes, onesies, and pajamas that make the perfect gift. I love my pink dress that I just got the other day from them. It's so comfortable, I can wear it around the house and then I can run errands, I can go to lunch, it's a dream. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good which explains waist celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, and Anne Hathaway have been spotted wearing it. Honestly, Charlotte York would be all over this. Give 15% off your first order of $100 or more at HillHouseHome.com with the code Charlotte15. Again, that's Charlotte15 for 15% off at HillHouseHome.com. Spring is a feeling, more light, more movement,

44:27a little more possibility. With pure spring collection, you can layer in sense inspired by places you love. Fresh air, florals in bloom, sun-warmed citrus, right at home, for a limited time, get a free pure plus diffuser when you subscribe to two cents for 12 months. Designed for larger spaces, designed to transform how they feel, shopped the spring collection now at pura.com. What was your most special thing that you said, I can't believe this is happening to me right now? My first thought was the tray wedding because it was so beautiful. But the second thought was the wedding that doesn't happen in the movie because we're at the New York Public Library. And we filmed there for so long. I know so gorgeous. I did, I recreated when Biggs coming after Carey and it was in the little black dress with the, no, good job.

45:28That's fun. So, but that felt crazier at large. It felt crazy because it was so big and beautiful and like we had a room in the public library that I have pictures of us where we would lounge between takes, you know? And we'd hang up my dress because it was so big and we had to steam it out all the time and we'd be in robes like lounging with the tapestries behind us. Like it was so nuts that we were allowed to be there, you know? And that went on for a while too, right? Like at least a week, maybe more. I mean, so many different things have been so huge. Going to Morocco, filming in Morocco. I mean, I could go on. We filmed in the Sahara desert on the camels. I mean, it doesn't get much crazier than that. It doesn't. And that was us, a little show about four women stomping around Manhattan, you know what I mean? Anything is possible, it's true. All right, back to the show. Let's go. Okay, so Carrie and Miranda run and Steve and Aiden is really sad because then these really cute girls, Jessica and Susan show up.

46:28And this is after Carrie and Miranda, no, Carrie, yeah, Carrie and Miranda have hidden in the hallway thinking like they've got to run, they've got to hide. They're out there talking about us, whatever. They think of course the world that revolves around them, but it doesn't because they're on dates, which is really funny. And those girls are cute. And then they're all like bumping into each other, trying to get, it's adorable. So adorable. I didn't think they thought they were adorable. No, I'm sure they did. But they did look really good for having run into their access. They did, they did. But also the thing that kind of breaks my heart in that scene is Corvette, the sadness on Aiden's face. He basically doesn't basically speak. Like I think he says something like, how are you, Carrie? But literally just the sadness on his face is so powerful and well done. He's broken. Broken. And he's not into that girl, do you know what I mean? No, and he probably like put up a fight to Steve to even do that. Yep. And yet of course that Carrie swoops in and she's there.

47:29Right, but I thought it was really good. And I think Corvette in general is really good. I'm hoping someday he'll come on here and talk to me. Come, I know. But then, okay, so then this is the big scene. And I love the scene for so many reasons. And I think it was so, so well written. And I think also like if you think about the trajectory, trajectory is hard to say of Miranda and Carrie. It's a crazy, powerful friendship. And the writing is never better. No, that scene when they're trying stuff on. The vintage. It's that, it's almost as if they like clipped it from someone's life. And it's so good. And it happens like kind of a surprise. Jody me like it's not like anyone's like trying to start a fight or whatever. It's just that Carrie confesses to her. First she says, she says, do you want to do something inside her and she says, no, I have to work. And then she's like, no, I feel bad that I just like my friend. So she says, no, I don't have to work. I'm going to go see big. And Miranda, she's like, you don't have to. She's still on the broke the camel's back. Right. It's extreme her reaction. And then she's like, no, you know, I'm not going to be here for another round of this.

48:30Like it's so intense in the, and Carrie's like, what? Like, you know, inside just like, I can't believe she's saying this to me. And so it's so good. It's so good. And so she says, wake up, Carrie. How many more times are you going to go through this? He is bad for you. Jesus, every time you get near him, you turn into this pathetic, needy, insecure victim. And the thing that pisses me off the most is that you, you're more than willing to go right back for more. I will never say that to one of my friends. No, and I think like it's interesting though because that I think is a projection on to Carrie of Miranda's own issues. But like, it's also the wording. It's like, it's basically the worst version of how to say everything of like, you're really fragile. Okay, no, I'm going to say you always make yourself the victim. Well, she doesn't take a moment. That's one thing about Miranda, obviously. She just speaks from the head. She doesn't take a moment to think about how could I say this more gently or lovingly, right?

49:32She's just like, and Carrie's like, you know, cuts. Like you cut her, you know what I mean? She looks so hurt. And when it's your person that like, even more, that's what I have a hard time believing that I will ever find some man that I love more than I love my best friend, Lily. And, but I think that's what's really unique about, especially Miranda and Carrie is that like, that is such a sacred bond. And now what those words just did was it broke it. Well, for a second, just for, but like, I think, it can feel at least in those moments of when it feels that high, it's very dangerous. You don't know how you're going to come back for it. For sure, it's very dangerous. And that's why I think women friends don't fight like this that often. But also why I think it's so great to see them actually go through this. Yes. And also one of the last episodes that I've watched of and just like that, they have another fight. And it's so great. It's after the birthday party, after Charlotte's birthday party in the kitchen. It's so great.

50:32And also at that point, Miranda's just talking about her flirting with the neighbor, right? And she doesn't see it coming. And then Carrie's like, why can't I, you know, I'm not doing anything. What are you accusing me of? You know what I mean? It's super interesting. Super interesting. It's two different snaps. Yeah, but they also know, I think at that point, because they've been friends for so long, they know they're going to be fine. But it is still dangerous. It's dangerous because there's too much truth, you know, and so much history. Right. And they've seen so much of what everyone has gone through. But I love the scene so much. And so they go and then Carrie goes right home and presses her, you know, voicemail in the olden days type thing. And there's no message. And she thought by now, she says I thought by now Miranda would have gotten home and left me a message. And then later on, she goes and calls her and Miranda was just about to call her. And they're on the same page again, which is so great and so satisfying. And so important, so much more important than the men really, you know what I mean? Totally. But she goes to this lunch with Big. And then I didn't remember this at all, but she goes back to Big's apartment

51:34and showers or whatever. Yes, and it looks stunning after. The hair bounce is back great. There's makeup in his cabinet. For sure, somebody left something over. Or maybe Natasha left something. And we find out Natasha's gone and that Big has painted his wall red. And that Carrie says basically like this red wall, it's a great idea, but we just don't really work. Which is so sad. And obviously we know it's not true. But that's also in fascinating because it's similar to Charlotte's moment of saying, did you actually want to marry me? Yes. That's, it's Carrie's having her big season finale wake up call. It's so true. And you really believe it. I mean, obviously we know what happens later. So we know that that's not the end. But in the moment watching it, I was like, wow, I would have really believed this as a fan watching this. It was very good. Oh, and he looked so good at the pond in that suit. It was like a... He looked good at the suit, but I thought he looked better when he's back in his hair is all soft. I like it when it's all soft.

52:35I know, I know. That's fine. Ha, ha, ha, ha. So wait, then Carrie goes, oh, it's one of those really beautiful shots of her writing too. Like I love how the filming her writing has evolved into just like different angles and fans and, you know, atmospheric. They have to keep reinventing the wheel for those shots. They do, but they do a great job. They do a great job. So she says later that night, I got to thinking about men and women in relationships or more to the point how women feel men does appoint them in relationships than a radical, almost earth-shattering thought popped into my head. What if everything isn't the men's fault? After a certain age and a certain number of relationships, if it still isn't working and the excess seemed to be moving on and we don't, perhaps the problem isn't the last boyfriend or the one before him or even the one before him. Could it be that the problem isn't them, but horror of horrors is it us? Ah, I love it so much.

53:37But that is like the fact that that monologue took three seasons and many more years before that leading up to get to. It's true. It's true, but it's so good. And I just think it's important to remember, you know, it's important to remember, right? Well, it's accountability. It is accountability and also like, I do think it's very, very easy to think like women, we do one thing and the men do another thing in like this Alabama guy. Can we prove you wrong, right? Like you have to keep your mind open. Or having your, I think the fact that these women, especially at the diner are constantly explaining for the other man's behaviors and why these women are in the right. But, you know, we only get so many of what did the woman do wrong? Where like, I think that is carry sort of like, oh, let's see what I've got going on here. 100%.

54:37So then we go to the Kiss and Makeup Party on the rooftop. I didn't realize we called it that. I guess we call it a Kiss and Makeup Party. And again, where's the scene in between of how we got to the Kiss and Makeup Party? We need to get to the Makeup Party. I know. I'm super, super interested. And again, I'm sitting there obsessing over tray, which is hysterical. But then I say that I'm not going to, I believe, right? Like, poor Charlotte, poor Charlotte. She needs some help. She needs a therapist. That's what Charlotte needs. You don't even mean. But she doesn't, she doesn't care one for some reason. We did leave out some of the, all the carry with the roosters. So insane. I just have to go back to it for a second. So she, have you ever had chickens or roosters? I have never, though I do have friends who do. And I've kind of wanted them. Like you would have them in your little backyard. Right. I know people who do. Yeah. Excuse me. But I did use to live in a canyon here that did have roosters that were like grandfathered in. And the roosters did wake me up because I would have, I would fly home to get some sleep when we were working when we were doing the show because we worked all night and we never

55:38slept, right? And I would come home to my super quiet house up in the hills. And at five a.m. Those roosters down at the bottom of the hill would start crowing and I would wake up and I'd be so mad. So L.A. was no longer the sleep city. No. I mean, I'd go back to sleep, but yeah, they were, they wanted to get us up. I don't think they're there anymore because I did, I lived there for like 20 years and I think when they died out, I don't think they could get new ones, but I do have friends and the stress is that you don't always know when there are chicks that their roosters are not. Right. So you're trying not to get roosters. Right. And you end up with roosters. And then if you want eggs, you need roosters. I'm not a warning person. I'm not a warning person. Yeah. You're not, I am now because the kids and the time change hasn't helped, right? So we're getting up early. Can we come back? Yeah, you get up early. Yeah. Yeah. But that's okay. That's okay. I've become more of a morning person and it is nice and like you can get some stuff done in the morning. Feel productive. You do. You feel productive. It's the perfect time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've been wanting because the

56:42Hyundai Getaway sales event is happening right now. So a great deals across Hyundai's entire award-winning lineup like the Tucson with next level tech and safety features or the Santa Fe with three full rows of premium comfort standard or the bold and super stylish Elantra or go all electric with their breakthrough SUV, the ionic five. You can't go wrong with whatever model you choose and getting away with a great deal is just the beginning because every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty which means that you can shop with confidence and drive with unrivaled peace of mind. So get down to your local Hyundai dealer and get away with the deal so right it almost feels wrong but don't wait the Hyundai Getaway sales event won't be around for long. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

57:48Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes shopping used to feel more fun but here's a confession are you a Charlotte listeners you can find that fun feeling again on eBay because on eBay it's not just shopping it's a full on fashion pursuit and when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to eBay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing muggler jacket and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over yeah those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. eBay has millions of pre-loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay Authentesty

58:54Guarantee. eBay. Things. People. Love. Their technology has come a long way since the days of Charlotte York's rabbit addiction leading the way is womanizer world famous first line of suction toys womanizer is the original inventor of what is known as pleasure air technology enables the stimulation of sensitive nerve endings with the help of gentle massaging air vibrations so that women can reach an orgasm in a very short time and often several times so far 98% of users who have tried a womanizer product were able to climax their latest invention the womanizer enhance combines their signature air technology with traditional vibrations. It is also the first toy to reach 100% orgasm rate during its user testing phase with a range of toys across varying price points and a five year warranty whether you're playing

59:58solo or with a partner a womanizer product is the best thing you can add to your self-care routine use code Charlotte that's C H A R L O T T E and go to womanizer dot com spelled womanizer W O M A N I Z R dot com for 20% off site wide. I am obsessed with hillhouse home the brand behind the viral nap dress with the signature smocking that's incredibly flattering unbelievably comfortable and so versatile I can wear the same one running errands by day and out to dinner at night I just got one the other day from them is pink it's low e I love it so much you could just put on some flip flops whatever you want and you look great and you're totally happy and comfortable hillhouse makes fun fashion that makes you feel good which is why celebrities like Taylor Swift Olivia Rodrigo and Anne Hathaway and I bet Charlotte York would love it to get 15% off

1:01:04your first order of $100 or more at hillhousehome dot com with the code Charlotte 15 again that's Charlotte 15 or 15% off at hillhousehome dot com home is your favorite place spring is when you let it feel a little more transported discover vibrant sense inspired by places bright citrus fresh florals clean air energy designed to refresh your space without adding complexity just plug in choose your scent and let the season unfold room by room explore the spring collection now at pure dot com so Samantha is in her new apartment in the meat packing district which I think we saw her in previously because she gets sick and the lights coming in she's trying to close the curtains into the curtains break and she wants someone to come help her and she realizes this a couple episodes ago that like all

1:02:06of her conquest or whatever are not necessarily going to show up for her when she's sick which is kind of sad and heartbreaking and made me feel really sad for Samantha that passed up so she's she's in her fabulous apartment and we all go over to have drinks I think right well I think she had had a altercation before wait no she has a guy at one place there and then she leaves literally like she goes crazy this model yeah she gets like she dumps the water she dumps the water oh god but let's back up okay so Samantha is woken up by a group of trans women on the street I'm reading my nose right now who says and says you oh yeah no no I can't even read these lines no so there's some craziness happening down on the street okay and they're loud and probably they're used to not be people living there right you know because it was the meatpacking district and the meatpacking district was like butchers and things that's what it

1:03:10really was so it was probably an area where if you were a sex worker you could go and no one would be bothered and only your colors could exactly who have driven across the the Holland tunnel it's right there and it's easy you just drive right over the Holland tunnel and you're there in the meatpacking district which is all very real and I'm sure probably did happen but I don't know why why why we needed to have it happen in our show or whatever but we do have it happening in our show and Samantha is she decides it's very interesting she says I'm going to test my PR skills and talk to them so she goes out there in that gold trench coat oh to make nice kind of yeah but then when she turns her back and walks away she kind of rolls her eyes it's interesting I think she she thought she could get what she wanted yeah because I think she um well and she is comparing them a lot to to men in the episode and actually what it proves to me is that it's like interacting with trans people

1:04:16like you you can't project some idea of what that you have to let someone tell you who they are and she thought she knew who those women were before definitely did she definitely did so she goes down to basically make friends with them and to try to reason with them and she says this my new apartment and I'm there and you guys are too loud and she meets destiny china and Joe who are very nice to her yes and say like oh okay you know they get it yeah well quiet down and then the next time we see her she's having sex with some like literally like a fitness model like my god Jesus if we know we have no idea who he is what he does nothing but they're trying to have sex and he's into it but she's distracted by the women in the street and she decides she's like obsessive and weird at that point so the guy gets like what is wrong with you well she you know literally fills up a bucket and dumps it on them which is such a TV moment but it's also like

1:05:17it's funny because it's like it didn't matter who it was or what it was but it was the thing prohibiting her from having sex so it was the enemy well fair right and I guess that's top the list for sure there's a lot of orgasm so I mean but you know I think that then it becomes this sort of cat and mouse game of you know the egging of oh that's crazy I didn't remember that at all so then that's destiny so cut to she throws the water out and it it takes someone's wig off must get destinies right yes and so then destiny comes back and throws eggs in her window and Samantha really not the smartest move opens the window what was she thinking and of course gives a big egg in the face which she does deserve a good you know what I think that that was that was for the entire community I'm the only time I'll speak on behalf of the entire community is the egg I agree I agree because she wasn't smart number one no and she said she said the the t-slur many a time I think she really does when was that something that was of like a word that

1:06:21was floating around I think it was I mean I I it's hard to remember because I wasn't in that storyline right so I didn't like sit down and think it through but I do remember I feel like there was some kind of some kind of cultural awareness beginning mm-hmm but it was like baby baby steps very much where somehow it seemed okay to just be like the tranny yes like casually just say it right like somehow tranny seemed more friendly than saying you know a transexual transexual which would have been the word or misgendering straight up which is what that was a lot of that and a lot of these like allusions to but I think that a lot of it was the the writing I could tell it was for the comedy they they wanted oh yes the jokes in the top over the top and I think during that time people were probably laughing at not with do you think I think they were I don't I mean do I imagine people during that time watching it maybe very you know

1:07:26liberal people watching it and being concerned but I I can't imagine that level of show with that big of an audience mm-hmm doing something that would upset that like it didn't seem wildly upsetting at the time I assume I don't think it seemed wildly upsetting because I don't remember being upset I just thought it was so broad and over the top and now it's yes obviously now but even at the time I just thought it was like one of those times where occasionally I've and I think some of times it's because the structure of the show right is like you have a storyline B storyline C storyline D storyline right and they can't all be serious right and they can't all be in depth right because there's not time even though this episode is longer than we get a lot in there 34 yeah 34 minutes whereas most of our episodes were 22 which is crazy yes because we get so much in there but that was definitely the broadest like we've got Charlotte kind of having a very kind of real storyline not funny at all carry not funny at all other than I mean when she falls in the

1:08:29pond I I don't know if it's funny ha ha but it's like a lot yes obviously and then I mean I think I laughed out loud I think big made me laugh out loud someone made me laugh out loud which is pretty funny also at this time 30 years later um but and then we also have I do think they try to make the meeting of the boyfriends in the street comedic by going into each other but then we also have the argument we have a lot of drama is where I'm trying to say so I feel like the this was supposed to be the funny yeah now to me I don't ever think I thought it was funny right I never also think I had understanding of the deeper um reasons that it was wrong I don't think I had that either right but I think I was somewhere in the middle right at that point right and it was also not your storyline right so I didn't have to but delve into it I think the hope that I have is that anyone you know rewatching it now does get that cringe of understanding of like oh this isn't landing the way that this show obviously intended right and but I also think like my general hope outside of this podcast everywhere is that even if I might not be someone's

1:09:33you know cup of tea is a trans person they find a trans person in their lives that they can connect to over something other than identity um and and I think that that's what's so important of just being able to say oh we should have done this different or or um you know obviously now we would want those characters to be played by trans women and in this last episode we were just talking about how a black trans person talking about this would be very different right and and important right and I think um I I think what just makes me so sad right now in this world is how close-minded we've gotten and and that there are people very famous comedians still making those same jokes that they were in in second city 25 years later that are on Netflix and and so I just hope that we can move forward in the right direction but my dad is like the sort of straightest most macho um football loving guy but he does make 400 cookies a week very random fact

1:10:35wow does he give them all no he gives them out to people on the streets that's incredible yes and but he was talk he was talking to me one night about he was like you've shown me one of the things that I I talked to him about was like he was he was like I'm just so scared that your life is going to be so hard and and I said and he thought that when I was a gay kid even my life is going to be so hard and and we've seen gay marriage come so far and and you know just game gay culture and has changed so much in the past 20 years and I told him I was like my life in 20 years is going to be so much safer and richer and nuanced this is the most nuanced episode I that I can think of at least for me and I I really really hope that that we are looking forward to the future and trying to make the changes now I agree I mean I think and that's the other thing I think about I mean because like for me certainly I I can't count all of the different trans people

1:11:38that I know I know so many yes in so many different stages of their lives which is amazing yeah and so inspiring but I know I'll just say having support from someone like you makes me feel like less of a problem in this world because I think you know I know who I am so well but then when the especially the women that I've I've looked up to my whole life say I see you for who you are I stand by you I support you it makes me feel like I'm gonna be okay I'm glad I mean I wish that we could somehow you know blanket the world in that you know what I'm saying because it because we want everyone to be okay but the but the world wants to make someone like you scared right now to support trans people them wow I love you oh my god no no oh wow this is like we're not going backwards no no and that's why I kind of want to keep making the show

1:12:44let's let's cause a way you have to find your way yes and it's messy at the beginning oh my god in the like if we're thinking about I've never compared my transition to and just like that but like you've got to find your footing and a lot of people judge me at first and even some of your viewers might be like oh isn't that that girl who'd x y and z but it's the awkwardness of finding life after you know you've lived for so long in one way and trying to refine it yeah is is awkward and messy but in its earnest yes and and that's what I might have moments of cringe yes oh my god I'm I'm cringe dot com haha it's so funny to me the way that the world talks about cringe now like that it's somehow avoidable yes it's not avoidable if you're living and it's it's suppressing so many young people's um desires through creativity there's so many right young people that would be making things right now but they're nervous with their friends you can't be nervous about that people you gotta go out there do stuff post a video write the song yeah fall in your face oh my god

1:13:47yes yes I know I know and you've got kids so it's like you are trying to make sure they're walking through life the way that you would want them to it's true and I mean they are and and and because a lot of the kids people that I know are are young people who are trans and then also now we have people who are finding the strength to come out and be their true selves now even later at life because the way the world is changing even though it is this very hierarchy jerky we've got people moving forward we've got people not moving forward potentially going back but you know what we're not going to be with them no and hopefully we're going to help them at some point I'm not sure how but you know what I'm saying we're gonna get there we're gonna get there because we're all moving forward you know I believe that I do believe that and I believe that partly because I know so many people that I cannot um I cannot allow them not not to be whole and happy and safe thank you and we have to you know do what we need to do to make that happen yeah it's just sad that

1:14:49that is up for debate it is it is it's it's it's it's shocking but if it's any consolation to you me being here and getting to meet you today and seeing you on my wall every day when I wake up it's like the greatest gift you could have ever given me and you're a gift to me you're a gift to me to be here to be yourself but following you I've been so happy to see your success it's so thrilling and we're gonna get you on Broadway and I think you should take the Broadway reigns okay but you'll come you'll come oh and if this comes out by the time I'm gonna be playing Ann Bolin and six musical Ann Bolin I love it so much it's really you haven't seen it right okay we're gonna get you here in New York I'm into it it's um 80 minutes I love it I love it in and out oh that's nice yeah yeah I think one act is all we need these days yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah places to be people to see yeah yeah and and I think I'll be the first trans person to to take on the show and um it's it's little things like that that I I'm not an activist and I

1:15:54don't see myself but that's the kind of advocacy that I'd like to do absolutely I think I have this advocacy can take so many forms with the animals absolutely absolutely I love seeing you go to the with that but I want to go there one day okay so healing is so wonderful so great so great so great I haven't been in a little while I miss it when I haven't been before the kids age to go like twice a year which was wonderful are they gone yet have the kids gone they haven't gone yet okay partly because the time change it's a lot so a lot for the seven-year-old but they're dying to go and so I keep trying to figure out a way like how did you don't I'm saying it's gonna happen it'll it'll happen for sure because because they love it and I have a lot of pictures up or you know the elephants the baby who doesn't love the baby elephant I know it's a great thing do you do you travel a lot I travel all the time and I used to raise possums in my kitchen in West Hollywood yeah I mean we there's animals in this episode I um during the pandemic I lost my job in the book of Mormon the musical and so I had time on my hands

1:16:57and I got on to kind of the underground possum rehabilitation circuit which I can get you into if you're interested no no I have a little dog okay fair he's a hunter it's yes but you know possums fall in a pool we they got to call someone whenever this woman's house raised pearl but then you have to let them go unless they've either lost a tail or been they've hit their head really hard right so I had to let mine go into the wild did she go she's she's okay well actually they only live two to three years oh possums only live two to three years yes cute when somebody loved me oh everything was beautiful um pearl RIP pearl oh pearl but but she got to live a wildlife because of you that's amazing I know I know it's all started in a West Hollywood kitchen wow yeah I have don't know anything about the possums but you in you're doing something similar for the the elephants I try I try I'm just to support for the real people doing it on the ground in Kenya but I do love it but advocacy can take many forms and I think that sometimes just being present in the world is a form of advocacy at this point in time yeah and find

1:18:02someone that you can connect to or follow that helps whatever version that you're looking for if I agree and I for me I think a lot of it is about creativity I think it's about expansion like who expands my world view that's one of the things that I look more like yeah but who makes me think who makes me see things differently you know who's doing something that I wish I could do that I can look up to you know you guys you Benny married bath like the young people that I can find we all need to do something together one day it would be amazing but I mean just watching you guys succeed oh it makes me so happy I love you I love you guys so much and you're just out there paving the way you know it's amazing thank you for being here until you dream we've had it since November and it came true it's happening wow not many things in life offer 100% satisfaction guaranteed but you know what does the womanizer enhance it is the first pleasure toy to reach a 100% orgasm rate during its user

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