The Love Comes Back with Donna Jordan

0:00Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports, and nothing brings us together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching, we're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of Team USA. As a parent, there's certain things that you sacrifice and you do so that your children don't feel the impact of what you have to go through and do because they're very empathetic. He's at the right word. And you just don't want them to see you in a certain kind of space or in and not feeling good. So it was it was very rough, you know, trying to get through that.

1:00What's up, y'all? It's Ashley. It's Melody. And Cody here. And you've tapped into the mom's in. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the mom's in podcast. That's Ashley. Welcome back. I am Cody Elaine Oliver. I am a mama of three boys, Aristotle and Langston, who are twins and Brooks, my nine year old. I am Ashley. Chia. I am a mama of four. I die. Oh, sorry. It's for nostalgic purposes. Okay. I have a mirror who is 17. That's crazy. She's 17. And I have let her be 16 for another year. You barely look almost 17. Girl. She is. She is a 41. Thank you. I have Azara, who is nine. I see it is eight in Natalia's four years old. Wow, girls. I was busy with these girls. That's how I got here. I'm Melody Fiona. I have two children. Just two. A son Cameron, who is nine,

2:06almost 10. And Kaya, who is four going on 87. If you're watching us on YouTube, you already know we have a guest. We're going to jump right into it. So Donna Jordan, I'm going to get I'm going to read it because I want to get everything right. Go ahead. Donna Jordan is a devoted mother, artist, proud grandmother, and guiding force behind a very close knit family as the mother of actor and producer Michael B. Jordan and my homies, Jamila and Khalid. Shout out to Jamila. Donna has has long been a steady source of love, strength, and support. As a mom of three, and grandmother of two, she embodies grace, resilience, and deep commitment it takes to nurture both family and legacy. Very strong, pro black family over here, celebrating Kwanza. Yes. Her dedication to raising confident grounded children continues to inspire us and those who value the power of home, motherhood, and community. That was so beautiful. We did it so much. That's your life. Oh, my. Yes, that's you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. You don't put your life in that nice,

3:11cute little neat bagge like that often, you know? So that was very beautiful and rewarding to hear. That's what we want you to feel because you are such an inspiration to us, just knowing first off, raising these three amazing adult children. Like how old is everybody? If they'll let you say, what's the range? Let's see. Well, probably 41, 38. There we go. And 32. Wow. I didn't realize Khalid was 32. Yeah. Okay. It's six years between him and Mike. Wow. Okay. And so for you, hold on, I want to make sure I get all the things right. Okay. So what was the hardest part? Talk about where you guys are from. I think you got you raised them in New Jersey. Raise them in New Jersey. Jamila and Mike were born in California. Okay. And then we traveled to New Jersey, you know,

4:12when there were about three and four. Okay. And New Jersey is my home. And so they had most of their childhood there. So, you know, it was quite an amazing experience for me to have them here in California, but yet go back east because I knew that the community that I came from was just a little bit different than it was on the West Coast. My mother was there. My sister, you know, my whole family was there. So I had that level of nurturing going on. And there's a lot of things that you don't teach your children that I knew they were going to get the old school stuff from home, you know. Was it a difficult decision to move back? It wasn't really, I just knew that I the main thing was that I did want them to be raised around my mother and that sort of thing. So it made sense to me too. It wasn't really hard at that point in time because I wanted that family bond going on. And out here is difficult because, you know, from those three years that I was

5:17out here, it was just very difficult raising them on your own. You know, you have to go to work and you're crying every day because you're dropping your kids off at daycare. And that's one of the thing and you're worried about. You don't know these people and it's like, oh my god, I got to drop my kids off. I hope you're okay. So it was just it was worth it to to make that move. So I just recently moved to New Jersey with my family really after 10 years in California. Wow. Okay. And I'm not from Jersey. There's my husband. Right. But we're East Coast. We met when we was when I was living in New York. Same as him. I'm from Toronto originally. Okay. And we felt like the East Coast was calling us back. And we felt like we have a different level of support. Our parents are based on the East Coast. And we wanted to have this experience, you know, so the kids are experiencing a winter right now for the first time. It's very real. That's the whole thing. They're enjoying it. So I love that you it was just kind of like confirmation like, oh, you know, as a mom, sometimes you got to do hard things for what you feel is beneficial for your family and best for your children and how you

6:20want to raise your children. And so I feel I feel what you're saying. I'm resonating. And it's also sort of I'll say the cadence that you have on the East Coast. You know, they have there is a a grit. There's a grime. There is that aspect of it that you want them to have. So once everyone moved back to California, I knew that they were, you know, empowered what they needed. You know, I'm saying, and it's proof of the pudding. You know, I'm saying people see that. They see the get up and go. They see the advancement of how they how they think and how they move. So I think it was a really good decision. Did everyone move back to the West Coast when they were adults or like, when did you guys come back to the side of? Yeah, I think it was more of and you also my family, my grandmother was in Venice, California. So my mother's brothers and sisters were in California. So it was like, we were always kind of bi-coastal in a way, you know what I mean?

7:25But we slowly started moving back when I believe Michael decided to come out first, you know, for his career once, you know, he turned 18 and I got fired. Okay, as I say, he's one of those momager and everything. No, no, no, no, no, no. Tell us about that because he is your, he's your eldest? No, no, he's your middle. I'm sorry. And you said at 18, right, he wanted to come out to California. Right. What was that? Because it was, it made sense because, you know, he started when he was like 11. Right. So during that period of time, I knew from 11 to 18, I understood what the business was about and what he needed. And I knew that at 18, to take things to a different level that it was just going to be better for him to be in California, to be able to have that, you know, that I guess that aspect of, of the industry, because everything, you know, all the agents were here and everything, you know, exactly. And back then it was the go-sees or the auditions and

8:30what have you, you know, was just, it was a different sort of level on the East Coast that I started saying that it was necessary. And then I was not willing to come at that time. So then it was trying to navigate how I'm going to feel good and not like a bad parents and a my child out to California and everything. But he had sister, he had an aunt's here as well and uncles. So this, it was, there was something happening. This is so crazy because we just talked about this on another episode. First of all, I have to just share some parallels. I first, like I told you, my mother's name is Donna. Right. Okay. We talked about it. You guys are born in the same year. This is wild. We just talked about this on another episode where, because I'm a singer, and so coming from Toronto, I'm a child of immigrants. Okay. The idea of entertainment as a profession was not a reality for my parents. You have to be a doctor, a lawyer, a nurse, a teacher. And at some point my mama had, and she raised me very, very strict on a short leash. Yes. So now here I am, I want to pursue music and go to California. And we were just talking about this, how, you know, it didn't make any sense that my mom would say, yes, for me to go. Right.

9:35As a young woman in this world, buy myself, but she did. And because she did, and I had her love and support in that way, I really do attribute that to the reason why I have been able to establish the career that I've had for myself. Come on, Grammys. Yes. That's a great girl. Yes. So even as a mother, when you think about it, like I think about my mom, probably now that I'm a mother, the, the, the anxiousness, the anxiety that you feel like, did I do the right thing? I let my child go into this world. And how do I feel about that? And then you see what they become. And you're like, oh, I did, I did good. I think I did. I made the right choices. You know, I really want to back up. Can we back up? No, yeah, because you said he started at 11. So he's 11. You got a 13 year old at this point, and a, whatever, 11 minus six is five. No, I'm not doing that math. No, thank you. As a mom of three, I mean, all of us have, you know, multiple kids. How are you nurturing the talents and passions and interests of these children, especially without anyone feeling like, why are you doing this for him and not me?

10:40Oh, there's all, there's that. Yeah. That is never going to go away. I don't think, you know, that, you know, does everyone have the same amount of Cheerios? You know what I'm saying? You know, 36 and I don't agree. It's exactly okay. Literally. But it is a, I think the way I look at it is just that you have to sort of zoom into each one and sort of kind of pick out what they're gravitating towards. So Jamila was already, I believe, she was like the first one to enter into the entertainment aspect as a journalist, you know, and, and studying journalism and the high school that they all went to also was a performing arts school. So they had it like four years earlier than most children would get it. So they already had a good grounding of what they were going to do. So the television and communications department in the high, in Jamila in the high school, Jamila was already doing short stories and that sort of thing and, you know, digging into that in that

11:46way. So I knew where, where her path was, you know, and, and Michael was, and Khalid were sort of just a different sort of thing. You know, I went, I think everybody probably ever heard this story where I had a, I believe she was a, she was a manager, her name is Mrs. Bailey, and she saw that Mike and Khalid were attractive young men. And at that time, that's what the industry was looking for. They were looking for young African-American boys, you know, in the industry. So it was also timing of it. So, you know, Michael could lay on a book and it just, everything absorbs into his head. He was just very, very, you know, into the academic level. He was, you know, on it. So I didn't have a problem with him coming in and out of school, you know, Khalid as well, you know, he was beat basically the first one. He was, he was in the talent pool in Sesame Street. So he,

12:47you know, really was the first one to have a sort of acting career. And so it was easy to nurture each one in that way, you know, until I saw what was really going to stick, you know, at 11, Mike doesn't really know, you know, it's, it's the, okay, can I get back to my basketball game by three o'clock? I said, yeah, so I'll get you back to practice, no problem. And then, you know, it's just the universe sort of took it from there. But nurturing them, watching what they do, what they liked, you know, yes, Khalid did have to come along to a lot of the auditions and what have, you know, at that, at that stage, you know, Jamila was pursuing, you know, she was a little older, so she was able to do, you know, 13 or whatever, she was able to do her thing on her own. But it was just a, it was just something that you sort of feel from them in which direction they go. Me being an artist also was a big influence. I believe in the directions they went because I also went to this school when it was just music and art. So I also, you know, that was,

13:51I was an artist and I started when I was in eighth grade and would have you and then just kind of continued on. So I believe they picked up a lot of the artistic, you know, sort of aspect of being a creative from me because when you're creative it's almost everything you do is a bit creative, you know, whether it's just, you know, cooking or what have you, you know, let's try the spice, let's try this, you know what I mean, and you just sort of, you know, move through that way. So I think it was just a matter of just trying to pick up, like we all do, I'm sure, you know, we see your children, you try to see which ones are a little bit, sometimes in a little bit more athletic, someone really is into, you know, cooking or maybe singing or dancing, you know, you just pay attention and you listen and you watch and you find out, you know, I feel like it can still be really hard though to like make sure you're giving them that individual attention on the thing. That's where I struggle sometimes. It's like, oh, you love this. Okay, did it, and then the other

14:52one's like, well, what about me? And so I feel like it's hard for me. It is, and I'm not even seeing as twins. Actually, I know. So why are you looking at them like, are you all the same people? Please be the same people. Please be the same people as one activity. I know, can't talk to them real. But you don't know, you don't know, you know, it is trial and error. You do the best you can, and you don't always get it right. But, you know, you do the best you can. You know, you can't, you know, it's just hard to pick each one, but you know, you pick up on the cues and you go on, because you also are working and you are also taking care of the family and that sort of thing, you know, you know, I have a mother who was like next door to me, you know, that I also helped, you know, sort of manage and be a caregiver to her as well. So, you know, it was just, it just sort of melded in the right sort of way. I can't say that there was any specific thing that I did or was able to pick up on. I just was very, you know, fortunate that everything worked

15:52the way I did. Do you have a question? Yeah, no, I was going to say that's, no, no, you're fine. That's the error that I'm in right now, because I have my daughter, my eldest daughter, we moved here from originally from Columbus, Ohio. Okay. So we moved here 12, almost 12 years ago, and we moved here with the intention my husband was managing a rap group and for her to act. Then we got here literally like a year later, I got pregnant with my second child and then like when she turned one, I was pregnant with the second, the third child. Okay. And then by the time I got over that era, I was pregnant with my fourth child. So now that my daughter, it was like last year, she was like, so didn't we move here so I could act? And I was like, yeah, she was like I've been on one audition. And so now she's in school, she's in high school. Okay. And she's been in theater the entire time. But like we had her assigned to an agency, but when I got pregnant with her sisters, it was just too much. Like I could not, you know, that is a commitment. Yeah, and they will call you five minutes before they're like, can you come to this? Can you send this? Can you do this? And I was like, I felt very overwhelmed. So now I've been her, her sisters, the middles,

16:54they dance with Debbie Allen and they, they came out the wound wanting to dance. And like that was, I was a professional dancer. So that was very easy for me. And I'm like, I can work with them, you know, take them to dance class. I'm locked in with my eldest. I feel like she kind of took a back seat. So this year, I was like, okay, she has one year left. She's going to go to college. She wants to go to NYU. Like for theater, this is like her thing film. Right. So now I've been like, I am just focusing on her right now for a little bit. Her sisters are a little younger. And I felt guilty at first because I was like, is it wrong to just like zero in on one child a little bit? But I'm like, she's the older one. She's very clear what she wants to do. She's always wanted to be an actress. And I haven't given her that time and dedication that she's deserved. So I'm like, you know what I mean? No, I do. I do. It's hard. But when someone's very clear and she's so hard working and she's so studious. And I feel this guilt because I'm like, dang, like, where would she be right now if I would have. Do you know what I mean? I do. But I also think that in that same

17:56realm that everything does line up the way it should. You know, we may say that, but because you were placed and the children came and she was where she was and things kind of worked out that way. Maybe things had might have been different had you started earlier. Maybe she needed a sort of level of leveling out and maturity at a certain point because this industry is not for the faint of heart at all, you know, saying, and you do need to have a little bit of that grit before you start hopping in there. When you start going on dishes on auditions and different swings and they don't work out quite the way you want to. What have you? And would you have been able to, you know, support her emotions and the things that she was going through with the other two children at the same time? You know, so I always think that it sort of happens and there is no guilt involved because you didn't orchestrate that in that way and you do what you needed to do at the time you needed to do it, you know. And you're listening to her now. Yeah, she sees that. Yeah, exactly. And you have other

19:00friends who can take her on audition. Yes, this is true. Oh, yes. Yeah, well, no, because I'm very, I saw a homeschool on my children. Yes, that's wonderful. Yes, it is. I believe so. No, yes. And my mom helps me to be clear when my mom be like, no, I don't know why are you saying you homeschool your kids? She primarily does homeschool the middle right now. My oldest goes to a school where she can get her degree at the same time that she's going like a college degree while she's going to school. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah, so she now, but I homeschooled her all the way up to, but we're very like a close-knit family. And so for me, I'm very protective of my daughters and I'm like, you matter more to me than some award or TV show. Like, you go to your point. I don't want you entering in this until me or your father can be there with you. Protect you. You have the right circle around you. Like, I'm not dropping my baby off as some random director's house chat. Not knowing what we know now. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And it is about, you know, it is about the family and the village, you know, because I'm sure everybody in my family has taken, you know, the children to

20:04auditions at some point in time. And they weren't always as kind with the other members of my family, you know, we don't have to go. But no, it was, you do need the family to support. It's an emergency out there. Okay. No, but I really, really honored that level of being a homeschooler because I do, I have a little thing with education and I worked in the high school for, you know, quite a few years and I just know that parents can do so much more. And you can see the advancement of your child or where they're going and they don't have to wait for the whole class to come along with you. You know, we're not teaching that right now because everyone isn't up to speed or whatever, but you know the speed of your child, you know, much how much you can push them, how much more you can give them. And I just think that other than the social part, which is a little bit difficult

21:06to kind of, you know, you want them to have that too. But I think you can, I think it's a much better route, even especially now today, I think homeschooling is definitely, you know. Mine is a little more like, I grew up in a very like pro black environment too. Like my mom did like the nation of Islam and a lot of people were in our neighborhoods. So like for us, it was more so like now we can't trust the people that are pressing us to teach us. Okay. Okay. I know. Okay. So I'm, I'm with you on that. I'm learning my babies. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And then have to counter it. Teach. You know, they're learning this in school. And then but yet I'm telling you, okay, I know you're learning this. And you may not don't tell your teacher what I'm telling you right here, telling them they're wrong. Well, my mom said that, yeah, exactly. That's what they do there. Right. School and your kids after they come home from school, they got to like reteach them and go over with that. What did they tell you? So yeah, I'm like, let me just nippin it up from the point. Exactly. That was very, very smart.

22:06I'm really you, you know, she get all your accolades for that because it is not me and my mama, me and my mom. I'm mama for sure. I have a question because we love hearing about the kids. Yes. But Miss Donna, you, you have a, you have an identity as a woman. You're an artist. You just said, I worked in the high school. I would love to know your world of artistry. What did you study? What are you passionate about? What did you do before you were a mom? What did you continue to do and create while you were a mother? How were you working and creating as a woman? Oh, boy, that's touching my soul. Yeah. We forget to ask. Right? No, but it is, I was been an artist for all my life. In one way or another, whether it was just doing a couple of flowers and everything on the letters that your mom made you write to your uncle and everything, every soul, and whatever. Or, and my mother really nurtured that, you know, my sister, who is 17 years older than I, you know, was like my second mother, you know. So it was like me kind of out there on my own,

23:12you know, and they just pushed me wherever they saw. Of course, you know, you did the ballet, you know, did the Y, and all that other things, but art was something that definitely creativity that stuck me in the individual art. Painting, sketching, sculpture, all the things, you know, the designs on the grocery store, what have you doing the holidays, you know, doing the Santa clauses and what have you in the little seats, the little scapes, whatever. And I've just been very, very fortunate and to be able to pursue my career, because of course, when you tell everybody that you're going to be an artist and that sort of thing, you know, the whole, oh, you're going to teach, you know, whatever, because no one really understands that there are so many other aspects that you could go into, you know, as being an artist. It's been such a charmed, blessed career as far as being an artist for me. I've seen other people

24:13or friends or what have you who were not able to sort of make the connections or have the dots connect in a certain sort of way, but I went to, I came out to California and I met a wonderful artist who we sort of bonded to her sister and my cousin were roommates and she was from Paterson, New Jersey. I was from New Jersey. So we kind of bonded in that way. We were around the same age and we took on a job at a hand painted silk company and we have been friends ever since. So like for 50 years, we're still just as close, if not closer than we were when we first met. So, you know, you really do need to make money with art. So it is the thing where yes, I did, you know, sell pieces here and there, but I was also able to work at a hand painted silk company. I was also able to work at a bar wear company where they designed bar wear glasses and that sort

25:18of thing that were also hand painted and designed. You know, I worked at T-shirts where I did color separation dot a dot. So I was able to actually get jobs where I was able to support and contribute to the household funds, you know, with my art career. So it's beautiful. I was really, really very happy with that and all the people that you meet and all the avenues that you go in, the twists and turns of the artistic world, you know, just has been really, really good for me. Are you still practicing art? Before we get there, because I do know your recent art activities, but I want before we get there, I want to know, did you ever have to sacrifice any of that while you're raising the kids? Of course. Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports and nothing brings us together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Exfinity and Peacock,

26:18Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching. We're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of Team USA. In, in a way, I sacrificed it. Excuse me. In the way of, yes, you still have to cook dinner. Yes, got to get close together. Yes, got to get to you informed. Just got to do all the things that you have to do as a wife and mother and what have you. But I still managed to produce art. I went into leather making, so I made pouches, what have you, where I would hand sew them and paint them. That seemed to take off pretty well and cards. Just almost everything. It was a difficult thing, but it kind of worked. I noticed I live in a room, but it's getting ready to be the art studio for a little bit. You take everything down, you put in another room, and I'm putting up

27:20canvases on the wall, whatever you know, or they want to eat in a dining room and all of a sudden you've got to move around and move the paints over. Yes, so it was always a way to still work and work with the children and make sure they had what they had. I think that's probably why each one of them are creatives in their own way. I think it was because they were exposed to the art aspect of how I moved and grooved in each of their own little ways. It wasn't all visual painting and that sort of thing, but they were all very creative. But they saw you being creative. We also talk about this a lot. How important it is for your children to know who you are. Oh, as an artist, and it gives them permission to see themselves in their own identities for their own visions and their own pursuit of their own dreams and how they do that while being many things.

28:20Exactly. That was so important to me that they do pursue their own dreams and how can I help them? How can I find out? Acting wasn't necessarily his dream. I'm saying, but you're starting to like it. Let's move on here. Jamila, writing, creating, that sort of stories, loving why A was her hair thing. She just loved books. She loved to read. She loved movies. She was always watching television. So it was a natural for her to move in that area creatively. Khalid as well. He was sort of like grandfathered to a degree because he was the youngest and everybody was already pursuing their careers in that way. But he found his way and managing because he manages me now. I mean, as far as my art career making sure everything is just where it needs to be and giving me my prep and what I should say, Dasté, what wear, what don't, what to do,

29:28and pricing on things, getting my work in areas that I might not have had access to that he does, that he was able to, you know, kind of usher me into. And I would say Jamila and Michael as well, you know what I'm saying? Because they knew I was an art and that was my passion. They also supported me in that way, you know, where my artwork was on different sets. And so, you know, it's, it was just a beautiful kind of kind of union there that we all had together artistically, but each in our own way, you know, in our own avenue of how we pursued it. And it keeps changing and growing as they keep growing, if I keep growing, because even now doing what I do and moving into the next season of my life as I'm trying to pursue my career again, reignite certain areas of it and seeing what's in front of me, what I can do, you know, and working with that as well as, you know,

30:30as you know, Lupus sort of throws a interesting kind of wrench into the works, you know, to me as far as how I can work and when I can work. And yeah. So, okay, so can we talk about how Lupus has impacted you and your family as a mom and just like how, how does that show up for those that don't know? Yeah, and how old were you when you? I don't know. I know. We're going to go, we have to math again. But 97 is when, 1997 is when I was diagnosed with Lupus. And then it was, you know, awfully impactful for the family, because number one, we didn't know anything about Lupus or what it was. And I was very fortunate to have a doctor who was able to diagnose me quickly because it also mimics other kind of autoimmune, you know, conditions and I was able to find out. And it was, it was a rough

31:33goal of it for quite a while, you know, and I don't know. It's like you manage things the best way you can. I feel horrible most days, you know, I was feeling, but you have to still show up. So, I would thank you. You're welcome. Sometimes you would have to like fake it, you know, because you don't want your kids to see you suffer. You don't want them to know how much pain you're in what you're going through. So, I think my God is acting chops from me. Actually, comes home. So, if you know, there's, as a parent, there's certain things that you sacrifice and you do so that your children don't feel the impact of what you have to go through and do because they're very empathetic.

32:41Is that the right word? And you just don't want them to see you in a certain kind of space or in not feeling good. So, it was very rough, you know, trying to get through that. I also have an autoimmune disease. Okay. And so, I was wondering, what age were they when you decided to share? I know for me, I feel the same way you do. Like, I'm literally tired and exhausted. Now you're going to make me cry every single day. No, right. Feel so bad because you're like, you, like I noticed like within the last couple of years, I've been like really sick. And I feel like I'm always tired. Right. And so, I feel like lately, my kids have been coming into my room. And I feel so guilty about it because I'm always in the bed. In the bed. Yes. Yes. Yes. Always laid down in the bed. Exactly. And I'm like, is this to be their memory of me? Like, my mom being in the bed and like the the amount of children that I have, I think has taken an

33:42impact on like my physical health. Okay. And so, with my first child, it really didn't affect me that much. Right. And I was always outside. And it's like, I'll make jokes and make up excuses and say stuff to people all the time. Like, you know, my husband makes breakfast for me, but it's because I'm sick. Right. It's because I like physically cannot get up. And so I think I've had to start telling my children that I don't feel good because I didn't want them to think I don't want to play with them. Their mommy's like, not lazy. But do you know what I mean? Like, she's just in her room watching TV. But it's like, I had to start having them like come into the room with me and get in the bed with me. And like, I'm homeschooling them sometimes in the bed. And we're reading like with my top like four-year-old, we'll do school in the bed. And like, my oldest now, she understands it. She doesn't take it personally. She'll just come and be like, mom, are you okay? Right. But I think for me, I don't know for you. Like, I had to start involving them so that they, number one, have that level of empathy and understand that everyone, I call them like invisible diseases because I think like, you know, if someone's going through cancer and they lose their hair, people automatically are empathetic and they're like, oh, you're not well. But so your point when you're acting and you show up and you do your hair, people don't know

34:47that like you're in pain and that you don't feel good. So for them, I had to start involving them because I felt so guilty. Like, I didn't want them to not understand why I couldn't like get up to play with them or make them breakfast anymore. Exactly. And I think so at that point was when they were, once I was diagnosed, I think they were old enough to be able to be called into the picture to know what was happening, what was going on. You know, Khalid is probably the youngest, you know, so he was, you know, he might not have understood all of the ins and outs of it. But I had to stop working, you know, so I was home mostly, you know, which is, which allowed me honestly to go on auditions and that sort of thing, you know what I mean? So it was an interesting kind of caveat, you know, for me having Lupus and not having, not being able to work, but then, you know, driving to, well, the driving to New York was like back and forth from Jersey. That was not the easiest and on your halfway through the tunnel. And all of a sudden,

35:50can you come back over to the one to see a call back? So you got to turn around and go back into the city. But I do know it's, right? So it is difficult, you know, but I just think that having them involved and then me having such major downs, major incidences that they had to be involved. They had to know what was going on. You know what I'm saying? It was just, you know, this is what's happening. And then constantly reassuring them, you know, that I'm not going to, you know, kick the bucket and have you know, I'm just saying because when I was first diagnosed with Lupus, I had never even heard of it. So I didn't even know. And then of course, what do we do when we go online? And we see and we start looking up. Oh my gosh. And they were like, you know, usually people live from five to 10 years or whatever, you know, people say, oh, yeah, I know somebody, I know when Lupus blah, blah, blah, I said, oh, how are you doing? Well, well, date, you know, they, they transitioned about three years ago. I'm like, so every story I was

36:55hearing was like, not very good and positive. So it was like a little, a little rough for me to get through in that way. But I do think that because they were involved and they knew what was going on, I think their level of empathy has, has grown and that sort of thing for them as people and how they feel about, you know, the compassion level and that sort of thing. And they always, you know, were very helpful to me. And you know, do, you know, do you need this? Do you need that? You know, in being, you know, being there, not being as troublesome as they maybe could have been. You know, I'm saying had they known I was, I was struggling the way I was struggling. Yeah. Yeah. Did I answer questions? Yes. Okay. It's funny too. As you were talking about Khalid and helping you now as an artist. Right. It sounds like, obviously in our 30s, we start to parent our parents a little bit. But do you feel like, you know, once they learn that you had Lupus and even as kids, you feel like they were kind of parenting you in ways trying to take care of you? Oh, yes,

37:56definitely. You know, just mom, why don't you rest? Why are you doing that? Why, you know, what have you? And, and I understood, but then, you know, sometimes if you got to do some things, you know, me and whatever, you know, idealistically, yes, that resting would sound so great right about now. But, you know, but you just keep pushing on. I think them seeing me push them seeing me, you know, go through and show up. I think that's what makes them their work ethic at this point in time in their lives is so strong and so, you know, so pointed because they, they said, she, she went through that. We've seen, you know, going through difficult things, you know what I mean? And, you know, they, they show up. Yeah. That's beautiful. They show up. Did I cut you off when you were about? No, I was asking her about her art. Oh, okay. Yeah. So this day, current day. Oh, this current day. So now I'm trying to get my, my sort of things together for I'm going to have I started a company called Moon and River and it's a home styling company

39:02and it's going to encompass a lot of my, my artistry in certain ways. And then I also just are, I take commissions and I do paintings, you know, as well, you know, along with that. So it's kind of a to some kind of situation. But, you know, I'm really excited about the future and moving forward into, you know, a new realm of my art and creating and it's my thought process and my ideas because now that you don't have the household to take care of in that way, you can be a little bit more creative, you know, with your thought process and the things that you're getting ready to do and what you want to develop, you know, and either research of art because a lot of people see the work and they see it's the final process or the final product of what you're doing, but not understanding the whole process that you have to go through to get to that point.

40:04You know, the research, you know, I mean, and the inspiration and, you know, the colors and how you're going to put this, you know, it is a whole process to get to that end point. What? Because you have a daughter is, well, no, you're, you have two grandchildren. Yes. Are they from your daughter or your, okay, so what, like when you're looking at her as a mom, right? And you're looking at your life now, what would be like the biggest advice you would give her any woman who's starting off their motherhood journey? Like, what is the biggest lesson you think that you've learned now? Especially now that you're on what is just your, it's like, I feel like there's like we have these different stages of life. So now you're in this new stage where you're, as you said, you're like, my kids are grown. I can focus on me. When you think about your life and as a mom in general, like, what is something that a piece of advice you would give or just something you wish that you would have known that you know now? That you have to, you have to take time for yourself. You cannot put everything into, you know, sounds into your children.

41:09No, but what I was saying, but you have to, but you have to reserve something for you. It's almost like when you were younger and they used to always say, you know, yeah, you've got to pay check whatever, but you make sure you take $10 and you put it over there in the bank. You have to take a little bit of what's happening with you and you for yourself and you do, you take a trip or you go to the spa, you nurture yourself, nurture yourself in a certain way. I did not do that as much as I wish I had, you know. So I think that and there is a, there is, I think from people being raised were born around the 50s and that sort of thing from older mothers. My mother was like 35 and back then that was like a geriatric burn, but it's so horrible to say. I had my baby at my last child at 36 and they acted like I was 400 years old. I can know it's a geriatric pregnancy

42:10and I'm like, how do you think I got pregnant? I'm fine. Okay. I'm like Jesus. My second right before my 40th birthday. Yeah. I am loving this. I'm loving this. And it's just, you know, parents back then were doing a different kind of thing. It was a different kind of dance when it came to raising children in the family and you know, it wasn't about you at all. You know, they would sacrifice, they would do what they had to do, blah, blah, blah. But I think that now that I've grown and I've seen both ends of it that you have to sort of truly, you know, you have to take time to also pursue your inner passion and whatever that might be, you know, other than, you know. No, this is, I feel like it's very inspirational, especially like for our mothers, like my mom, she devoted her life to us. Right. She's also a visual artist. She can paint really well in my oldest daughter can. And she clearly got it from my mom because I cannot. But I'm just hearing you and I feel like I'm like, I'm going to make sure my mom listens to this episode because I'm always

43:13telling her like, mom, you still can paint like you should sell your artwork. She's so amazing. But I think to your point, like she was, because she was born in, you know, in the 50s, is she feels like, well, I'm just going to be a grandma and I'm like, no, you can still like pursue your art. Like, you're still here. Exactly. I think that's incredibly inspirational. And we love it. I mean, we love the grandparent, you know, hood and that sort of thing. It's, it's such a different experience. But, you know, you we, I'm just happy that I have this time now and I can reflect back on saying, listen to me, you know, you know, you have to take, you know, you have to rest. You have to take time for yourself and go out with your friends, you know, and make the balance of it. You know what I mean? You tell your husband, yeah, you can have, you can have a play date too. You know what I'm saying? You know, so that it's balanced because, you know, you have to balance these things in a family would have you that each person doesn't feel like one is being overwrought or, you know, all of everything because, you know, it's never 50-50. When it comes to parenting, especially with women,

44:16we, we just have to do certain things that men are not built to do. Right. I mean, and hopefully, I won't get, you know, you know, so many letters. No, we're not going to wait them. We agree. We agree. We agree. Straight to the, uh, the shredder. Right. And then you have to, so then you, it's almost like you have to add that into the equation that you do more than 50 and then therefore you need to take like a little percentage over to the side for yourself. You know, ten dollars a week. But it takes a little bit of time. That's right. Exactly. Then, honestly, I think you are the first mom and guest we've had that has been in this stage of life. Okay. That's not our moms. You know, that's not right. That's not right. Yeah. Right. Simone, we had Simone Smith, but mama Donna, you are the age of our mama. Yeah. Yes. And so, yes. So there's, I'm like, this is so inspiring because your journey and learning more about you through this episode is truly your artist spirit has kept you alive. Yes. Correct. Thank you for

45:20saying that. Yes. Because against all odds for your diagnosis. Right. Through everything that you've had to overcome, raising three successful children and still being connected back to the root of who you are. And still honoring and pursuing that actively at this stage is what a gift. What a, what a, what a source of inspiration. Like I have goosebumps thinking about the mom who's going to listen to this that felt like her prime of what she could offer this world for herself and others is over because now she's a grandma or she was sick or she's not as healthy as she was. Like, this is so, this is going to be so inspiring for so many women. Like, I'm just sitting here being like, wait a second. You mean to tell me in my 70s, I could just go make an album again and go to a residency. Absolutely. And I wrote this in my mind, but the actual seeing it, I'm seeing it in real time. And that is a gift. Oh, it's easy. So it's real time with cute loafers. Come on. Listen, we had a lot of connections. Okay. We're not. I just want to take loafers.

46:24And we had a loaf of connections. I've got all our loafers loafers. I'm going to make some loafers. I'm going to send you some. I'm sending now. I have to actively do it now. But yes, we can model. We can model. We can do a model. Yes. Yes. You'll have four-year-old Tata and 70-year-old Yes. Mama John. Yes. Because loafers are for everyone, honey. Yes. It's 100% and I was like, okay, they're back. They're making a little chunky. Okay. So I can get a little stylish with, you know. No, I'm glad. And that's why I was happy to be able to come, you know, hoping that I could inspire, you know, mothers and grandmothers, you know, to move forward because there is so much that we still have to give and that we kind of held back a little bit, you know, as we were going through all these things, you know what I mean. So now that we can, you know, reclaim your time. Reclaim. Oh, I love that one. They say that. I'm reclaiming my time. Yes, exactly. And just

47:29move forward with it. And it's just such an honor. I'm glad that I'm able to do it, you know, because also with loafers, it is very debilitating. And that sort of thing, you know, I'm usually with a cane, you know, there's, I'm usually in pain, you know, and, you know, your hands, you know, are three, whatever. But even through all of that, you can still create. You can still, you know, if it's making peach cobbler, or whatever, or Kate, whatever is your passion, you know, just keep moving towards that end. And right now, there's so many things that are going on with, you know, with supplements and medical discoveries and things that are helping us be healthier, because there was that whole period of time when, you know, there are things that are like degenerating us, you know, I'm saying. And now we're learning more, you know, about certain diets, you know, trying to go towards more vegan, whatever you do. But there's so much information out there now to help us feel better longer. Yeah. Let's put it that way. So now that you feel better

48:30longer, you can now pursue those dreams that you, you know, kind of deferred for a little bit. And another thing that I'm learning is let your children see what you love. Yeah. Let them be a part of it. Let them see you doing it. However you're doing it. Yes. And not simply because yours became artists, but also even just them, the joy that they have seeing you now stepping back into that and flourishing. And it's just really beautiful. I'm glad. And that is one of the things that I do look at that I did not do that I wish I had done more was to be more forthcoming with my feelings about what I was going through at the time as opposed to trying to shield them so much from things, you know, giving them that credit that they could take it, they could handle it. You know, you think that, oh, you know, I don't want to tell them this is going to upset them would have you, but they're strong and they can take it. And I didn't know that, you know, but I know it now, you know, and so now I do take the opportunity to let them know, you know,

49:35if I did anything that I wouldn't, you know, if your thought was a little weird, whatever I, if I hadn't known that I would have done that. But just to let them know that I am trying, I was trying my best, but, you know, I just wish, and now I'm telling them more, I'm giving them was to, oh, my mom, I didn't know that about you. I didn't know you did that. I didn't know that's how that went or whatever. There's so much that, you know, I left out, you know, that they just didn't know. And so now I'm working on, you know, letting them get a peak a little bit more into who I was before I became, you know, their mama. That's so beautiful. I think to piggyback off a Melanie, I, when I look at you, I just think about you literally are walking a body minute of what it means to live in your purpose. And I always say like what we make money from is not always going to necessarily be our purpose in this world, but your purpose to me is to create. And you are clearly an artist, you know, and just as you were saying, like when you were talking about cooking, I'm like, that's so funny because I feel me and my best friend Nalo, she worked the same

50:38way. Like we both create, but there's been moments where we've had to just like solely focus on motherhood. But then it's like, I'm gonna make this best banana bread and where I'm gonna just love into this or like I'm gonna create with my children. But I think that they feel that you just can feel the energy of someone who who is literally walking in their purpose regardless of what they're getting from it. Because that means you're living in your life and people can feel that energy. And I think that's why your children are successful and they're an embodiment of you because they always spoke that whether you spoke it out loud or not, you were living it in your everyday action. So I thank you so much for that. Yeah. You're an embodiment of love. Yes, part of the reason I wanted you to come here too is like you have three children who like show up for each other. Yeah. And love each other and show up for you. And that is visible. And that, you know, wanting to raise children like that. Yes. Yes. Yes. And although I just met the two of you, you know, I feel like, you know, you definitely would be in my tribe. You know, I'm saying, you know, and I know that your intent is there, you know, and you have the knowledge

51:42and you seek out knowledge on how to do it better. And I think that's part of the journey as well. You know, you have to, you have to seek it out. You have to, you know, and create it and create it and create the platform to be able to talk about it. That's why this is so beautiful. The mother's then when I said, okay, I'm so proud of you all for doing this because it's so needed because motherhood is such a specific thing that takes specific, you know, knowledge and direction. And what we do is, you know, we created civilization. Hello. Continuously live life. And we did that. We did that. I'm just saying, you know, we started up from what I understand Robin studying is like, the female gene was the first and then the male gene came from the female gene. It's still like that now. We have done some wonderful things. Absolutely. You know,

52:48and I am so proud of you. I really am. Thank you. And I'm so honored that you had me. And we're proud of you. We're honored to share your time with them. Thank you so much. It's my honor. Okay. So moon and river. Yes. Yes. When will we be able to shop moon and river? Hopefully around the spring of this year. Time is going so quick. So quick. But I will definitely, you know, get, make sure you all have all the information that I don't have on the tip of my time right now. I'll be here. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming up here. Thank you. I'm almost in. Bam. Y'all can follow us at the mom is in podcast. Do you want folks to follow you? Yes. You want? Yes. You say it because I know there's an underscore in there. DJ underscore creative with a K R E E the number eight T I V E. Okay. Follow her in more about her art and her grown babies. And yes. Yeah. Like send us love notes. Y'all know the drill podcasts

53:53with an S at blacklove.com and check us out next week for a new mom is then. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you much. Okay. Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports. And nothing brings us together quite like team USA at the Olympic winter games from NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and peacock. Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching. We're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of team USA.