The Lindsay Clancy Relationship Test | John Lovell

0:00If you want to save the West and crush myriad different evils, men need to get stronger. Dudes are breaking off their engagements with their fiancees because they defend Lindsey Clancy, suffering with her. Congratulations, guys. You just dodged the biggest bullet ever. If men don't rise up to stop women from killing their daughters, abortion will never end. Without men being the protectors that they're supposed to be, what do you get? Feminism. If you're not courageous, you've not yet begun to be a Christian. Guys, why do we have a crisis of almost no hard to find masculine men in America anymore? What does this horrific Lindsey Clancy case mean for American culture?

1:01Well, my friend and warrior poet, brother, John Lovell, the founder and CEO of the Warrior Poets Society, joins me today to discuss how we can build masculinity in our sons. And how America has drifted so far from its patriarchal founding. This was a fun conversation sparring intellectually with a brother and debunking, exploring and uncovering how our country got so messed up. Guys, check out Gruberware at Sethgubber.com for fun, controversial pro-life merch statements on your t-shirt. If you'd like to be stared out in public, give the show a rating and review. Just go to Apple Podcast, hit five stars, tell us why you like the show. And you can watch all my episodes on Spotify now for those of you who are audio-appliciners and you're running around. You can watch it or listen it on Spotify, super easy. And if you have not joined the White Rose Resistance yet and you want to sew in to be a part of a movement that's actually mobilizing,

2:06training, engaging the local church to fulfill her great role in duty of ending abortion, protecting babies, tearing down high places, then go to the white rose dot life and sign up as an ally at $35 a month or air support at 70 a month, which gets you the books in the barracks book club with yours truly if you want to read books with me and our supporters around the world actually talk about them live on zoom. Let's get into it. This is the Sethgubber show. John, welcome to the show, brother. I'm friendly on the now I won one time I said something like the warrior poet and you corrected me. Yeah, it was pretty I mean, I I did repent in dust and ashes, but you said it's the yeah warrior part. You have capital T H heavy emphasis on the Z. So everyone knows it's capitalized and you pause for dramatic effect. The warrior poet. Okay, okay. Thank you. This is already we're starting extra special stupid right?

3:08So I'll make sure that I do that correct in the future. There's going to be just to help stroke your ego. So don't in the comments that doesn't understand we're making fun of ourselves in like this narcissist. Because we're bro, bro, we're being ridiculous. Well, I mean, look, I mean, the Sethgubber show. I think it's because I'm humbler than you. It may be. Yeah, I'm going to be the most humble ever. Yeah, I think I'm way more I see. I'm pretty sure I'm much more humble than you. So anyway, welcome to the show. Good to be here. So I have been talking about sort of this concept that you just represent as you walk around on planet earth, but I've been trying to give it sort of rhetorical coloring and expression. And then you gave me your book and I've watched some of your stuff and I'm like, this is it. This is what not enough men in the church or even pastors are talking about.

4:08And it's the it's the warrior poet way. And that could really open up 15 different actually lanes of conversation. But I like that because I think so much of our problems right now in the west and in the church are because you have the the warriors and the poets kind of divorced each other. And then they became like Andrew tape and I don't know like Rick well Rick Warren or something. But it's like they just you just get like so now you've got your like effeminate creative gay boys. They're now they're the theater kids and they're into slam poetry and they're all expressive and they're artistic and they're the poets but it's completely divorce from truth, from strength, from tradition, from masculinity. And then the warriors now you've just got like your your tates and you know, hey at least I've got an eight pack and you know I got laid five times in the last four days.

5:09And there's so now I feel like the church and Christian men used to bring those together. Talk about this concept of the warrior poet way. What we've lost, what we need to regain. I mean you named your whole company this and I just think it's the most powerful combination that if that could be brought together again and if other men can lead the next generation of young boys into bringing those back together again. Not only could we save the West, but I think we could have revival in this country. That's good. Yeah. If you want to save the West and crush just marry a different evils, men need to get stronger. And if you lean into these two archetypes of warrior and poet, you can accomplish that. Men are not supposed to be lovers or fighters. You are supposed to be both. Right. You tell me you're a lover but you're not a protector. Well, I'm like well, real love protects. Right. And so what what's happened is this segmentation of a warrior or a poet

6:17and Thucydides had said this. I mean thousands of years ago, the society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. Maybe I just reversed that. And they said that. Thucydides. Wow. Pretty cool. I say it again. These society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools or its thinking done by. Well, now you botched it. Either way. Either way. If like, don't trust me. I really nailed this quote before. And now I'm capitulating. I've heard you matter. You've got your breath right before we got this record. Yeah. I'm like, I nailed it. Nailed it. I'm like, you're a foul ball. But anyway, we'll have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. Yeah. Right. And so the whole idea is, no, you're supposed to be both lion and lamb, just like Jesus in the book of Revelation. All of heaven looks and the lion, the powerful lion of the tribe of Judah is seen. But the Apostle John who is seeing this celestial, this celestial scene and this

7:23visitation looks in where the whole of heaven saw a lion. He saw a lamb that looked as it had been slain. And so the takeaway and I think that that was really the dual image that was presented. Heaven saw powerful Jesus high and exalted up, transfigured, dangerous in battle as a warrior. He's the commander of the Lord's army in Joshua five and six and also in Revelation 19. Jesus is, you know, saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning because he threw him like a long dart. And so of like that, there's Jesus strong and powerful. But he presents to us as the lamb that has been slain. And so like Jesus, the perfect man, we should be both fully lion and fully lamb, not 60, 40, not 80, 20 fully lion, fully lamb. And so men should be warriors, protectors, providers, just like all in the archetype of warrior where long suffering, where strong, tough as nails and, you know, faithful loyal, ready to follow orders or give orders of all the

8:28attributes that you would think of as a warrior, men should have those. And also that of the poet. Then so a lot of times the warrior will bristle at this and like, no, sissy stuff. I'm like, no, you all of the great ancient cultures are really known by their art. And that was a masculine endeavor. That's right. And all of antiquity. How did we just somehow serve up all of the arts to the limperisted? What what's happening here of no, it's a masculine endeavor to engage in arts. It's a maskry endeavor to be romantic. That's just like half of masculinity is loving one woman well forever. It's a huge, huge part of like no romance is a manly thing to do. Being a good present available father, you know, connecting heart to heart with your children. That's masculinity. And it's all the place of the poet. The poet leans into the beautiful

9:29into deep waters, into truth, into the majestic, into the arts. And so that is a part of the masculine heart and soul. And if you miss it, you kind of miss the whole thing. I like to describe warrior poet. Yeah, warrior poet, kind of using our bill of rights. It just sounds interesting, I think. The first amendment, it's got all the good stuff packed into it. Okay. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press. You can say whatever you want. Nobody's able to silence you. You know, freedom of religion, you've got a bunch of really important rights packed into that first amendment. And then you've got the second amendment, the right to bear arms, and the government's not to make, allowed to make any law that infringes upon your ability to get arms, ammunition and training. And so these to somebody who's unthinking in our 21st century anti-academic postmodern woke mind virus experiment that's going on, they could look at the

10:31incongruity, seemingly paradoxical nature of like, what do you have this second amendment for? Right to bear arms. Surely we need to dismiss this relic, but our founders were really good students of the past in history and their recognized tyrants are always trying to take those sacred liberties. They can encapsulate it in the first amendment. And so the only way you can actually keep your god-given freedoms is to protect it with violence. All laws are ultimately enforced at the end of a muzzle. And if government has the monopoly on violence, then they can take away your rights and you have no recourse. And so the second amendment is the only real recourse of a failing or dying republic or any, no, you can't possibly maintain your freedom if you give all your guns to the government and disarm yourselves. And so it's, it's the fail safe. It's the protection. And so back to the warrior poet discussion. The warrior piece is really a means to an end. You're supposed to protect what matters most. And so the second amendment, it's not first because

11:33the second amendment protects what's more important. The first amendment. And so the warrior exists as a means to an end, but the warrior doesn't exist as an end in of itself. That's good. In heaven, when all battles are ultimately fought and won and we beat our swords, you know, into plowshares, all battles are done forever. And then what do you have? Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, you have bliss. You have all the stuff that matters the most. You have paradise with the father. You have, you know, flourishing in the new heaven and new earth. You know, you have a cosmic epic throw down worship service that you never want to end. Your heart is exploding. Everything feels like you're falling in love and writing a roller coaster at all. It's going to be a grand old time, but we're not going to be battling anymore. And so the second amendment points to the first amendment as the most important stuff. In other words, the poet piece is the stuff that makes all the protecting and fighting worth it. It is more important than the warrior piece. The warrior

12:36is a means to an end, but the poet is a means in of itself. But first, we want to say our incredible sponsor of the Seth Gruber show, every life diaper company. It's America's Pearl Life diaper company. And it's not just diapers. They have wipes. They have baby shampoos and soaps and lotion. And they knew having new femme care line as well. And they're actually, they watch as they don't want to kill babies. And I actually know the Christians. This is their, their, the founders, their Christians. They love the Lord. They love babies. They're not woke. Okay. And it's actually quality supplies. So if you're having babies, if your friends are having babies, if you're a grandma grandpa, listen to the show and your adult kids are having babies, make sure that they're getting their diapers and baby supplies from everylife.com. Because one of the ways that we're going to change this culture is when Christians care enough about truth, actually, and the family and the next generation to combat the war on the family with their wallets. That's right. We're talking about good old fashioned boycotts. The left does this to Christians people all the time. You're not going to bake the cake for the gay wedding. We're going to destroy your life. Okay.

13:38Well, we can actually do that as Christians. We can boycott companies who hate us. American values are faith and unborn babies. So let's just defund like all of the pro-borschen diaper companies and go to everylife.com. Use promo code Seth10, Seth10 for 10% off your first order. And that lets them know that we sent you. Thank you every life. I love the first second amendment explanation. That's really good. I mean, we're, you know, we all like to picture these like, wise and old, like warriors in their gray haired years sitting around with a cigar or pipe telling these young boys, you know, these people that they just used to lay waste to. That's good. And, you know, it's like, we picture these, you know, novels or fantasy books where you find that old warrior in a pub and you like, can't believe he's there and you get to tell you all the stories of all the battles he won. And, but in a real way, we will be doing that

14:43in glory one day. We will be sitting around listening to the warriors of old, recount stories of heroism and faithfulness in their stewardship to the great lion. But in those days, in those eternal days, there won't be future battles. That's right. We'll just be celebrating and remembering the victories one for our king. And now all battles are done because the lion has returned. That's good. You know, those testimonies are going to be lit. Imagine they're going to be lit. Super cool. Because I'm like, all right, we're having a Bible study and we're staying about, we're studying about David and his mighty men, the birth of Israeli special, special operations. And today's Bible study is led by Ben and I. Hey man, remember when you killed a lion on a snowy day? Talk about that. David, 10 to thousands, really? That's a lot of people. Tell me what it was like

15:43to stack Philistine bodies. And David will let you know. And it's like this Bible study is the coolest ever. Yeah. But legit. And then we could make, we could make Beth more sit down and listen to J. L. Tell her what it really means to be a woman. J. L. Remember the freaking nail right through the guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, bro, Swiss average story. Yeah, dude. Yeah, we have friends. There's a, we have a daughter named J. L. Yeah, that's pretty J. L. Yeah. So who are your favorite historical figures that you feel like almost perfectly or very beautifully represented the warrior poet? I already gave you a couple. I went to Jesus as the first archetypical warrior poet Ryan and Lamper, Pechley forever. I totally, well, I think that's

16:45a part of my whole movement off Revelation five because you're saying this is not, I'm not, John Lovall's not just saying, Oh, well, I looked back at these dudes who I'll use to have eight packs. And they were pastors, but they also killed people that threatened liberty. You're, you're not saying like, Oh, no, we have some cool examples of this. You're saying that the tension that you're explaining is actually the gospel. It's actually the representation of our savior. Warrior poet society is a ripped off rebranded biblical masculinity, which I created to make it more palatable for the secular world so that I could fared in the gospel. I literally wrote the warrior poet way my book as an excuse to put my testimony into it. There you go. It was good to write it because here's warrior poet manifesto. And so there's lots of good stuff. But the whole real endeavor was I was motivated because I wanted to put my testimony right in the middle of it. What is your testimony? I was rescued through a, I don't know, um, an ambush, a celestial ambush,

17:52like a Paul on the road to Damascus moment, where Jesus saved me around May 20th of 2001. Tell me about that. Tell us about like, uh, John Lovall BC, bro, and, uh, and now, bro, it was an ugly site. You wouldn't have liked me before Christ. You wouldn't have liked me. I don't know if I liked me. I don't know. I was out of the home. Um, I was kind of raised in the shadow of the steeple, but it didn't take, you know, so, so I'd been around church enough. My parents had brought me along. And so I heard gospel and, you know, you'd even have seasons where you're kind of like, all right, I don't want to be a good kid. I'm going to do this. But behind the veil, what my parents didn't know is I was living like a hellion. Well, they kind of, they found out around 14, 15 years old. I got arrested a couple of times. I was in all kinds of drugs. I was chasing skirts. And my parents saw this and my dad decided to send me off to boarding school. And so I was out of the house living at school at 15. Oh, I was a very troubled kid. And I would set records at that school for in-house

18:56suspensions got close to expulsion didn't get it. But man, I was suspended all the time. I was so much trouble all the time. I ended up going to college for a year, but really just restless. I'm the guy that was like drunk on a Tuesday morning. I was that guy. I was wild. Just wild out of control. I'd done hard things in my past. I had been a all-state wrestler. So wrestling was really important. My identity was really wrapped up in that. I had a no-quit tenacity about me. And I could kind of see violence as a bit of a chess match in a game that I really enjoyed. And I was good at it. And so I had some no-quit masculine attributes that might allow me to dare to do hard things. And so as I was restless after this one year of college, I'm like, I want to go to military special operations stuff. Why not? I'll go for it. No one was doing that. I knew no one that was doing that. But I'm like, I dropped out of school and tried to become an army ranger.

19:59And then when I was on my merry way to go do hard things, I had an encounter with Jesus Christ. And this is where it gets kind of mystical for me. Even looking back, typically all the events in my life, I can articulate well enough. But this is something that was really a mystical thing that happened to me that I'm positive of. But words just start to fail me. But I can tell you this, though I was very used to living on my own. I was used to doing hard things. And I was right where I wanted to be. Right before I entered into basic training, something called 30th AG, Auditorium Italian. It was like in processing the military. You get your dog tags, then you get a buzz haircut, he's standing in line for uniforms. Now it's food time. It's really just standing in lines and getting a physical. It was the easiest thing for everybody else. This would be one of the hardest

21:00parts of the military for me. And it was really inexplicable. I knew I couldn't call home where I would burst into tears. Couldn't call my girlfriend of like I was super fragile and shook it up. And it didn't make any sense because I'm not that guy. What was happening is the Lord, God Almighty was heavy on my heart. And he was breaking me and break I did. All I could say is what felt like if you've ever had your heart broken, you know, got dumped or made a fool of or excluded or something like that. That's what it felt like. I've never put it in these terms, but I think it's helpful. My heart was crushed. And somewhere in there, I heard in my heart of heart, it's not audibly, but in here, the Lord said, John, you've done your own, well, your own way, your own thing long enough. Now you'll work for me. And it wasn't an invitation. There was no like soft music, every head bowed, every eye closed. There was no service. There was no Bible. There was no preacher. This was alone with the Lord. I heard that. And so, but it wasn't an invitation. It was

22:08a declaration. Your mind now. And he gave me a new heart. And so what that looked like is I was one type of person around May 18th, May 19th. And then May 20th, 21st, I was a new creation. It's obvious is a light switch going off. He just changed me. And so I am a rescued man. Well, you know, I didn't choose Christ. He chose me. And so that's my testimony. And some people won't like that. They're like, well, theologically, that I don't know. It's kind of like the blind guy. It's like, who is this? I'm like, I don't know. I was blind. No, I see. This is my testimony. I didn't choose it, but it is mine. And so that's how I was saved. Wow. Guys, the church has been here before. The names have changed. The language has been updated. The packaging is certainly much more sophisticated. But the fundamental battle over truth, human dignity, sexuality, life, and the authority of God is not new. And that's one of my central

23:13arguments in my new book, The Last Stand, Christ or chaos, The War for the West. The early Christians inherited a similar culture just way more decadent with practices they could neither affirm nor accommodate. And their response wasn't to retreat, softened the truth, or learned to coexist with evil while preaching a cute, clean gospel that they built a distinctly Christian alternative. And they transformed the world. That history matters to us today because we need that kind of courage again. My friend Frank Turek shared such a beautiful endorsement of the book. He wrote, the book is not only brilliant, it's a timely and practical call to conserve and restore what far too many of us have taken for granted if America and the West are too endure. This generation must rise and make its last stand. And Seth Gruber shows us how read it then lead. Thank you, brother Frank. Guys, get your copy of The Last Stand book at The Last Stand.com forward slash book. And then you spent some time in the military, right? Yeah, we did some

24:18military things. I made it into Ranger battalion, won a motorcycle. I'd have bet with my dad that if I made it, he'd buy me a motorcycle. That's cool. And so I graduated. Yeah, I ended up making it in all these different passages. I made it the unit, spent a year at Ranger Bat, proved myself in the Singed You to Ranger school. And then when I'm done, I ended up getting all my goes. I made it all the way through, but I got bad cellulitis in my back and hand. This swelled up like it was a baseball mitt. It was a gross. So I'm in the hospital and I ended up calling my dad at the end. As Ranger school is finished, I'm like, Dad, yo, me a motorcycle. I still have a motorcycle, but he delivered. I want it in a bet. I've never told that story out there, but yeah, totally won a Harley Davidson in a bet. That's like, John, you didn't, I hear you, buddy, but that is really hard. You're gonna make a, you're gonna make an army Ranger? That's really hard. So I won that, I won a bet. Well, isn't that actually like a great, sort of just analogy and

25:28framework for raising strong sons. Sure. Yeah. I bet you can't do that. Yeah. Wasn't as much a punk out in a challenge. It was more of a, have you thought about this? Oh, no. That's, that's the thing. You know, if like, have you really thought about that, that you may be biting off more than you should right there. And this was all, you know, right before the towers fell. And so I was in airborne school when the towers fell. And so I got to Ranger battalion and the very first thing I did first day, I was there. I packed for war. And then I was gone like a month later, two months later, I would deployed for, to Afghanistan for my first combat tour. And I do four more. So I did five combat tours, Afghanistan. And I rack and then, uh, yeah, when my time was done, I punched out. I had a lot of other stuff that I wanted to do. I wasn't a military man. I was just a man in the military. But in the Lord, blessed the mission. He made me successful. Everything I put my hand to in the military did very

26:32well. Advanced very, very quickly. And he protected me. So when I get in all kinds of scrapes, lots of close calls, um, you know, fights and ambushes, he was there with me. But it was neat and able to, it was a practical theology thing. Cause once I got saved, I found a Bible in the local chapel. And I'm like, well, I, I really need to know what this says now. I, you know, I, I, I wanted to do it. It wasn't just, it wasn't just I should. It was a compulsion of like, I want to read God's word. And so I started in Genesis one. And I just read it all the way covered, a cover fast. And then I flipped it over and I did it again. And I did it again. And I did it again. I'm still doing it. I was in numbers this morning. So I'm still love, love the Bible. But, um, I would read in the morning. And then I'd go do combat missions later that day or into the night and stuff. And so you read about it. Fear not. Be strong and courageous. For I'm with you, go into this line. I'm not commanded. You'd be very strong and courageous. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go do

27:35courageous. Here I go. He's scared about to wet yourself. He told me to be strong and courageous. And so, but it had a living actual real faith. Yeah. A masculine, uh, protector faith was wrapped into it. And so he was leading me closer to himself with my Bible in the deserts of Afghanistan amidst the palaces of Iraq as a very practical faith. And so I was able to really learn the Bible directly in my own desert wanderers. And that was, uh, that was a neat way to fall in love with the word of God. Yeah. Well, that's good. Um, what are, so, um, we were talking about different kind of figures that are inspirational to you. I like this. I love studying these stories. Uh, John, because, you know, they just, they give you, uh, courage, they give you inspiration. Yeah. Um, they call you

28:40up to something greater. Yeah. And I think that we should tell those stories to our sons, to our daughters, to our wives, to our grandchildren. That's good. I mean, you could say that remembrance and forgetfulness are the measuring rods of faithfulness throughout the Bible. Yeah. And that's great. You know, there used to be, yeah, I think it's a, I think it's a Deuteronomy I'm forgetting the chapter. But, you know, when your son comes to you one day and says, uh, dad, uh, what are the purpose for these commandments? Yeah. You will then tell your son. Yeah. Yeah. We were once slaves in Egypt. And then basically, then then walk through. Right. All that the Lord did and all the ways that he delivered and how he worked. Like we used to build stones of remembrance. Right. Why? Well, because the Lord did something and we got to be a part of it. And here's how this story happened. And here's how this clash and battle happened. And we don't tell stories anymore. And when I tell some stories of Christian heroes and different warriors and different ages, the number one response in churches, I mean, John is like, wow. Yeah. That's good.

29:45I never heard that before. And it spurs on courage. Yeah. That's right. And it's one of the coolest things that I get to see both with my son, but also just with fellow believers. Yeah. It gets them excited about fighting their own battles. That's right. Or culture, battle fronts for the Lord today. And those of often just been very transformative in people's lives. Why? Because they're real. And their courage laid the foundations for renewal and reformation in our day. Right. So who are some of John levels favorite kind of warrior, poet, historical heroes? So I'll give you one biblical and then one kind of secular. Yeah. Of course. As soon as you do this, people kind of lean in and think of like, who give me the, give me the strange, give me the obscure. And I'm like, well, I get it. But I like fastball straight down the middle. King David of the Bible was the Bible's greatest warrior and greatest poet. Right. Totally. Of like, think about this. Saul, the first great king of Israel had killed his thousands,

30:51but King David, his tens of thousands, meaning of like war campaigns, the warrior king, David, of like his career started by felling a nine foot tall giant that no warrior anywhere in the world wanted to tangle with. Right. Right. You know, like, and he just comes here. There's the champ out there. Yeah, totally. Just muscled and hair. You know, I'm the one talking everyone. David, David can't understand why in the world, no one's challenging the nine foot giant. That's good. And he, he doesn't go out to meet him. He doesn't just go out. He doesn't just stroll out. He runs out after saying, who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should dare to fire the armies of the living God? You come at me with sword and spear, but I come at you in the name of God. And then he runs out, hits him with a stone stuns him. He falls down and then using his own sword, which David could barely even pick up cuts his head off in front of everybody.

31:52And the crowd goes, what? But that, that was the start of David. This is before he founded, you know, his mighty men of what type of warrior do you have to pay to get 30? And then there's the three. That was kind of like their Delta Force was the three. And then the 30 was a angry platoon of army rangers. That's what you have following David. Do you know what kind of leader and warrior you have to be to inspire that type of crowd to follow you? And I'm sure you've like, David was, you know, we see him like almost displayed in art as this perpetual, rosy faced youth. And like David was like, if David walked in to this podcast right now, we'd both be kind of like, I'd be kind of like, what's up, Mo? Are you familiar? Are you for enemies? He kind of one of those things. Well, I don't know what to do about that. I think, you know, he'd just be just this jacked, intense guy who is used to killing lots and lots and lots

32:54and lots of people. And like, he's the warrior. And yet, and yet, all of the Psalms, these deep waters of majestic beauty and insight and thought he's crying out to the Lord. You see his compassion. You see his, his heart for the Lord. You see his vulnerability. You see his humility. You see him questioning number one songwriter number one. And so he gets I heard. Num best sell. I don't know if they were, I don't know if Dove has recognized it. So good. I don't think so, but I think he's due. Most popular musician of all time. And so I mean, the Bible's greatest warrior was his great, it was also the greatest worshipper. And and do you wonder now why he was a man after God's own heart? Yeah. A man after God's own heart. He wasn't just a fighter and he wasn't just a lover. He was both. And if you want to be a man after God's own heart, you'll be fully lion and fully lamb,

33:56fully warrior, fully poet, fully lover, fully fighter. Because that's what God is too. Yeah. Yeah, we've really lost that chivalric ideal in the church haven't we? I think a lot of churches have. I love that my church hasn't. My church is good, strong men. I love my church and I visit it. Sure. If I do speaking events at churches, you do as well. And typically anybody that will have Seth Gruber in the pulpit is not a church pulling punches. And so I get it a lot of a lot of the state of the pulpit in America's dismal. It's bleak. It's spineless. The state of the church in general is bad. But man, I really don't like beaten up on Jesus bride too much. Without us, if she's ugly, recognize she's us. Let's make her prettier.

34:58Yeah. And so I recognize the a lot of it. It just has, I mean, you see all just the softwoke, the full woke, the outright apostasy that's claiming Christianity and is completely all the the false teaching out there. And then the milk toast, limp rusted versions of Christianity and her champions, which is just an absolute abhorrent lie. And it takes all the healthy men out there that may lean in to question and be like, hey, what's this whole god thing about? And then they see the guy in the pulpit and then they see these wimpy feet, men in the audience who's great virtue is just they're nice and sensitive and sweet, but they're not bold. They're not saying the gospel. They're not leading. They're not providing. They're not courageous. Like with the righteous or as bold as lions, that's what scripture tells us. But we'll hold on. The righteous are as

35:59bold as lions. All right. So let's flip that upside down. If you're not as bold as a lion, you're not righteous. Remember the essential that the starting claim of Christianity, the starting ask the line Jesus draws in the sand is unless you are willing to sacrifice everything. Pick up your cross, your instrument of certain torture and death. And follow after me, you cannot come with me. You don't belong to me. Depart from me. I never knew you. That's the claim. If you're not ready to leave everything behind and follow me, meaning if you're not ready to make the most courageous, crazy burn the ships move toward me, then you're not with me. So Christianity starts with the most incredible step of courage. So how can it be that our congregations are filled with cowards? How can they really be Christian? How could that possibly honor the Lord? And I'm like, no, Christianity, one of the most essential virtues is courage. Ephesians 6 of

37:05pray for us also that we may proclaim the gospel boldly as it ought to be proclaimed. Don't remove the offense of the gospel because a gospel that has no offense is not a gospel at all. It's counterfeit. And so we need a, we need courageous men and women to be able to revitalize the church. And I love that when churches invite you, they're usually healthy, vibrant, courageous churches. So they are out there. They're harder to find. But they're out there. And that gives me great encouragement. Because if you have your find one of these bold gospel churches where they speak the truth at all costs, but they also do it in love. Season was salt, gracious kind, gentle, peaceful, but they don't blunt the sharp double-edged sword, which is meant to pierce through bone and marrow. It's like it, yeah, the gospel's supposed to hurt and

38:06cut. And then you have all these prosperity guys who dole the sword of the spirit. So it's not cutting because we don't want to offend. And my no, Jesus came to divide. And that division is the gospel, which is a little align in the sand of the earth, which you have to join Jesus or declare yourself tacitly that you're his enemy. Those are the stakes and their eternal. So if it's a gospel that doesn't cut, then is it the gospel? No, it is not. Hey, if you're a pastor, a church leader, a youth pastor, a Christian educator, or just a warrior believer, something amazing is happening across the country. Our nationwide screening of the last day in film is being screened in hundreds of churches, all who are signing up to host a free screening of this transformational film, this 250th more than 70 screenings have already taken place. We just launched and premiered the film two months ago. And we have hundreds more scheduled

39:08around the country and around the world. And the reason is simple. The challenges we face today are not new guys. It's easy to say there's nothing new under sun. But what does that mean? The early church actually confronted all of these things, child sacrifice, weird sex stuff, gender confusion, and a culture completely hostile to God's truth, end of the family. And but they didn't retrieve, they didn't compromise. They actually stood faithfully. They sacrificed and they changed the world. And we've inherited that tradition. And it's our turn. The last stand film tells a story and reminds the church of the blueprint that we've forgotten. And a screening is more than just a movie night or a film. It's an opportunity to equip your congregation, your students, and spark meaningful conversations and join hundreds of believers across the country who are choosing to stand together for truth. This could be a last stand moment. And it's our job as the church to engage the evils of our day. Yes, with the full council of God, but also with personal sacrifice for the babies, the family, and the next generation. Now's the time to be a part of our growing movement. Go to the last stand, dot film, the last stand, dot film to host the screening at your church or find a

40:14stop on our nationwide screening tour near you. The church has done this before guys. And together it's time to do it again. You know, CS Lewis said courage is not, courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point. That's right. Which means at the point of highest reality. That's right. Which means if you're a coward, you cannot possibly be a good man. So I'm tired of seeing a feat cowardly, nice church mice, and they're exalted as the consummate Christian. I'm like, no, that's not it. If you, if you're not courageous, you've not yet begun to be a Christian. In the 21st century, in this 250th year, 2026, John, in our context and our culture, what are some of those testing points? Oh, wow. Which courage is most clearly seen and most effectively tested? Do you stand up for the unborn? I know you've never thought about this. So let

41:20me just a couple of time. Yeah. Can you tell me? I highly encourage you to start a movement about this. Okay. But if like it's the great genocide of our time, you probably never thought about that either, right? Yeah. These are profound. These are profound. Why are you not taking notes on this? You should take all joking aside. It's because I've given my whole life to it. Yes. That I haven't ceased to recognize how profound those truths are despite how many times I've said them over and over and over. 100% Yeah. You were on my podcast just a couple weeks ago. The most censored video we have ever produced. Like, why is this thing tanking? What was happening here? We posted everything we can. We made all my language of like, Sodomite and gay and baby killing Moelak. Oh, wait, that's not curse language. That's just reality. It's yeah. It's the most censored video in the most shadow band video we've ever had. Incredible. You're welcome. So yeah. Well, I mean, it was an important message.

42:25Like, you would think of like, hey, all right, we want to stand up for babies. That's really what we were doing. I was like, we want to stand up for babies. We love truth. We'd love to have a conversation about that. Right. Big text like, Barion, Hidus, don't let them save the bet. What is happening here? What kind of world is this? No, I think a good testing point is whether you stick up for babies, the great genocide of our time. Like it was Cook and Jews and Evans in the 1940s, in another in another age in the Caribbean, the Bolsheviks or slavery as well in America's rearview mirror and every other nation in the history of the world slavery. This is our great test is can we stop killing our own babies? That would be the great test of our time. If you want to save a life, advocate for the unborn. So that's almost like, are you saying, wait, so hold on, is the warrior poet saying that no uterus, more opinions?

43:34Just temporarily identify as one who has a uterus and then you can say whatever you want. No, that's what that's what you're in. No, you're in no uterus, no opinions. That's right. But it sounds like the the theocratic, showvinistic, sexist, John Lovall who clearly hates women and their rights is saying no uterus, more opinions. We actually need more people without uteruses to be standing up and defending the unborn. I am a defender, a protector of the innocent. When I go to war, I'm not just protecting the men. Yeah, that's right. I'm protecting the women as well. And just like I would protect man, woman and child in the military context. Yeah, yeah. When I come home, I'm still going to protect man, woman and child. I'm just trying to make this like the most rage bait clip for the fan. I don't care if like, is all the names they used to mean something of like, you big it, you sexist, you want to be like, no, no, not explaining. No, no, no, no, I'm kind of like, I don't care. The names just don't mean anything anymore. Yeah. Because I read that's all they've

44:36got. They just throw names at it. Like, all right, you hate women, right? I love women so much. I married one forever. Yeah. That's a man. Yeah. I love women so much that all work to pass laws to stop women from killing their daughters. That's right. Amen. Amen. So all of it is. And how about this? If men don't rise up to stop women from killing their daughters, abortion will never end without men. Yeah. Being the protectors that they're supposed to be. Yeah. What do you get? Feminism. And what is the body count of feminism? No one knows because it's impossible to know how many babies have been slaughtered. Yeah. That's right. Largely at the choice of their own mothers. Oh, Seth, but what about when a dad pressures his daughter? Yes. We're not talking about that. We're not talking about pims who have sex slaves who force them to have abortions. That's different. And that's the minority. The vast majority of abortions are women choosing, right, to kill their own children. Yeah. On your show, you were like, you know, the greatest

45:42battle of our time, you told me, is not what's happening down in and out. It's what's happening in the womb. Yeah. That's right. But now great sense. That was physical battle of our time. But since I was just on your show recently, since then, John, we have seen the logical conclusion of feminism. This mom, I've been looking at the news. Lindsay Clancy. What's happening? The mom who strangled her two or three kids to death. No, I didn't even see this. I've been checked out of the news. Good for you. Most viral thing happening right now on X. So now we get to get John levels unvarnished, undested opinions. So there's a mom. Okay, John, Lindsay Clancy. Oh, postpartum depression. And she was on drugs. Yeah. SRIs, anti-depressants. Yeah. She sent her husband to go run an errand. She takes her kid stand in the basement. And one by one, which means the other ones broke. Think about the other one. They're watching.

46:44Yeah. You know, how long does it take a female to strangle a five five year old to death? I have no, not 30 seconds. I mean, it's got to take a couple minutes. So yeah, it depends if it's a blood or air choke, a blood choke. If I put you in a blood choke, you know, I shut off crotted arteries. You'll pass out in seven to eight seconds. You'll be out cold. And then you, then it won't be so bad. If it's an air choke, it's miserable. It's awful. Yeah. Awful. And so if she didn't know how to do it and you're just doing this, it's an air. Yeah, it anyway, I don't want to think about that. Exactly. And then exactly exactly. But then what happened, John? Well, John Love has been checked out of the news. Good for you. I wish I needed to do that. Tell me how to do that. Guess what happened? Nationwide movement of women marching to defend her. Why? Because postpartum can be really hard. Yeah. That they have raised millions of dollars. They're outside of the courthouses cheering for her. Now it's breaking up relationships

47:47because, which is actually like an interesting way God's using that to save future marriages. There's all these viral stories now on X, John, of screenshots of a text message between a boyfriend and girlfriend or fiancee. And he's breaking off. Dudes are breaking off their engagements with their fiancee because they defend Lindsey Clancy. Yeah. They're defending her. Suffering with her. Yeah. Congratulations, guys. You just dodged the biggest bullet ever. Exactly. Congratulations to all the men that got dumped by horrific, demonic and evil wives. But John, postpartum's hard. I get it, but that doesn't allow you to commit premeditated murder to three of your own kids. Nancy Nancy Lindsey Clancy. I'm so glad that I've forgotten her, her evil name should be tried for, you know, triple homicide and executed. She should be, yeah,

48:52I for an I-2 for two. That's what the judicial system is based on. Yeah. Isn't it interesting, though, watching how women operate without strong fathers or husbands in their lives? Yeah. That's right. And this will probably get clipped. And all of my pro-life establishment friends will start manifesting Mary Wolston's craft again. But why should that even surprise us? Why? Because when we are not sitting under the father, being mentored by the father, downloading the word from our father into our brains, men can become very dangerous, and not in a good way. And so Christ is ahead of the church. Man is ahead of the wife, and he's

49:53supposed to love her like Christ loved the church. That's a means to freaking die. That's right. Which means I think you can make him a sandwich. He has to die for you. But now this whole divide between the sexes in our country and, you know, screw men, smash the patriarchy. I mean, they've been saying that for about a century. That phrase goes back a long time. Smash the patriarchy. And now look at all of these miserable women, either single, cat ladies, or Mary to weak, effeminate men, who have now just taken the logical feminist abortion position to its logical conclusion. When your life is difficult and things are really tough, and you don't think you can handle being a mother, homicide, just a hardship justifies homicide.

50:53They just applied that logic out of utero. And yet at the same time, John, last week on X, story breaks, dad took his wife and kids, strangled them to death, and threw them in like a pot of acid or something. Guess what all of the comments were from men on the X thread. Kill them. Kill them. Yeah. Can I volunteer? Yeah, yeah, it's real simple. Like, yeah, we got to talk about that dichotomy just in terms of like, I don't know, like, what does it mean to be a man? What are the dangers and pitfalls when we're not functioning in accordance to our design and the way that God made us and made marriages to function? Like, I don't know what like, it's just this powerful viral contrast happening right now on X of Lindsey Clancy murders her kids while she sends her husband out on errands. And all of these women across America are fundraising and saying we love her and showing up at the courthouse.

51:56Do does the same thing. All the dudes on X public castration and slow and painful death followed by a 30 out six. Can I volunteer? Yeah, I definitely don't want to see a public castration. I mean, isn't that a crazy contrast? And they tell us that men and women are basically the same. Welcome to egalitarianism. Yeah. I don't know. What do you do with that? You know, hearing all this and it's like I get feminism gives the gals a free pass and the guys guilty of the exact same thing, you know, kill them. It's like, it's fine for her, but not for him. I'm like, ah, feminism is crazy. I wanted to go more kind of at the presuppositional level. I was just thinking of the axiological argument for the existence of God or the moral argument. If there is no God, then morality is subjective. That's the first premise of it. If there is no God,

52:57then morality is just something you make up, whether it's individually or whether it's a social contract, it's all just a make, believe, fairy tale, whatever. In some, if there is no God, morality is just whatever you and I say it is. And if we want to change it, you know, next week, we can and we can apply it one way for the woman and one way for a man. There doesn't need to be any symmetry because it's all just a house of cards. It's all make believe. You know, and this has horrible reducto-out absurdum consequences, slippery slopes that you can go to it because now, once you say there is no God and morality is subjective, then it can change and ebb and flow. You can't ever say that slavery is wrong. It's just out of fashion now. And later, if we all agree, of like, no, it's okay. You can own people. No problem. Work until they die. If the masses say it's good, then it is good because there's no real actual transcendent right and wrong. So how could you

53:58ever say Hitler was wrong for anything or how could you say that this woman is wrong for anything? And that's the problem with this postmodern world that rejects God. You must also reject the idea that morality is objective. Morality is unchanging. Some moral things always stay the same, regardless of how you and I feel about it. Murder is always wrong no matter what. Rape always wrong no matter what pedophilia always wrong no matter what. So if you ever make any moral claim like that, you can't have a moral law unless you simultaneously have a moral law giver. Someone outside of us above us that authorizes morality. And so the problem is is if God is dead, then so where are we? If there is no God, then morality doesn't exist. And that's what's happening when you find a godless people have no moral restraints in us, people of the book, us people who have a moral standard that was instituted by the moral law giver can always say

55:01it is always wrong to execute someone for, you know, um, yeah, anyway, I could just keep going down the rabbit trail there. But us, we have a moral standard and they don't. And so we can look just a guest at all the horrible evils that they have. And it's amazing that folks who are killing their own kids can celebrate it, applaud it as a moral virtue. And it's like, yeah. Do you think that we're somewhere in the critical transition phase that after good times creating weak men and weak men creating hard times? Do you think that in 2026, we might be somewhere in the transition phase of hard times creating strong men?

56:06Yeah, I believe so. These are, I think we got some real dark days ahead. Have it, and you see, anybody that doesn't have their head in the sand who is falling prey to the logical fallacy of inductive reasoning because the sun came up yesterday, it will definitely come up today. So to speak of because there's no world war right now. There can never be a world war. And though every single generation seems to fall into some epic war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two, World War One, it's like our great, our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandpas, our great-great-grandpa, every generation had some terrible war that was at the front of the headlines for years and years. But us were like, no, we'll be good. We'll be fine. We'll be the one generation where the sky never falls on us. I'm like, we've got a lot of stuff that's real bad. I'm like, I ran jockeying for nuclear weapon. Do you know what I ran would do if they got a nuclear weapon? Immediately use it on us. Immediately. What's going to happen now that we're $40 trillion in debt? Oh my gosh.

57:09Can this go on forever? I saw that. Of like, can you as an individual consumer spend untold amounts of like the average American taxpayers like 300 grand in debt when you take the $40 trillion in a portion of it out of like you think you're debt-free? No, go to the federal government spending. You're like 300 grand in debt, something crazy like that for every taxpayer. It's wild. So what happens with that? How can our economy possibly survive and not fall like a house of cards when we continue? $40 trillion in debt. I think 19 of that happened in the last six years and maybe it was 17 of it in the last six years of like we are piling on debt at a meteor. Great. Are we going to do Terminator 2 Judgment Day? Are the machines killing us? What's happening with AIs? The Genie already out of the bottle. What happened to our entire way of life when the Industrial Revolution kicked off into had such incredible advances in technology

58:11in so in some ways it was very good, but the birth pangs of that new era that had shared in left I mean hundreds of thousands of people without a way to feed their families anymore. They're out breaking machines just to these artisans that had generational knowledge share of how to do this certain craft. All of a sudden their jobs were erased and we're about to experience the same thing on a far more cataclysmic scale with AI. What jobs are you trying to get and you expect to still be there? You just sunk years and years into graphic design and honing your talent. What's a graphic design going to do in the age of AI as it's now on it? Not just that, but how many how many forget like pursuing a job that will probably be irrelevant in five years? What about all the men and providers right now? Right. Labyrinting and providing for their families who won't know where to go provide. And what are they? What is going to happen when most of the country can't make a living anymore?

59:16There's a saying and the circles I run in for preparation. I'm a security guy. I'm a protection guy. I'm a preparatory guy. We're always nine meals away from anarchy, meaning you and I can sit here with microphones and lights and a nice coffee right here and we can have a civil chat. But if your kids have an eaten in three days, they have skipped nine meals. Everyone will kill everyone else for a loaf of bread. We're all nice and docile now. Your kids have an eaten in three days and are starving to death. You will kill your neighbor for that loaf of bread. And so we're always nine meals away. The thin veneer of civilization. Yeah. Civilizations only maintained on a precipice. Right. Sure. And then, you know, if like if already you're not seeing storm clouds of on of you could take some Islamic, you know, whatever with a nuclear weapon or China or North Korea or some nuclear war could happen at any time, anytime. And people are like, well,

1:00:18no, that'll never happen. Says your optimism. I'm like, well, how could they explain to me why that couldn't happen? But of like, no, that that's a real contention, especially when it from a culture that is like half the globe is growing faster than any other segment and believes that if they kill the infidel, they go into paradise. There's a lot of little girls. In many of them, you know, believe that of like, they're ready to kill for their faith. So to speak of like in a nuclear weapon. Well, anyway, there's a big range of $40 trillion in debt. This is assent AI. And we have no idea what the repercussions of a generalized AI would be. And we have, we're as fast as we can. Everyone's building a eyes all over the globe. And we don't really know what this is all going to result to. And then you can also look at the political and sociological landscape of the United States. We are ideologically further apart than they even were in the Civil

1:01:21War. Oh, yeah. Of like, we just have nothing in common with folks who are on the end run, replace the rate and we're saying our children and we're importing the third world. It's like, how can all we need is one of these to really go in. So what's the best way to raise strong men during these hard times? Wonderful. With the iconoclastic optimism that maybe our sons will create good times. There is wonderful news for this. Because what I just did is I drew pretty bleak, unattractive picture of a of a world gone wrong and corrupt governments. What you can do is you can turn off the news once you're done looking and do it just because we shouldn't put our head in the sand all the time, you know, but you can turn off the news and then you can go to your home and you can have a healthy flourishing family. And that's your recourse.

1:02:26You can create this wonderful home culture that makes all the battles dragon blood on your sword. You can make it all worth it because I'm able to have fun memories with my boys and I'm able to make them strong. Like we're working out in the garage all the time now and we're doing chores and we're going swimming and then we're reading books at night and none of these evils are there in my home for this temporary time when I can just turn off the tube, shut down the podcasts and flirt with my wife, you know, and take her out on a date and we go for walks on the wood in the woods. And then I sit at my dining room table and my families around my sons are playing worship songs on the piano as they do nonstop all the time and I'm reading my Bible and then I mean my wife are going to go watch a show together later that night and we're going to we have good vibrant wonderful memories. And us as men, we are supposed to be the thermostats of our households.

1:03:26We set the culture, we're the leaders and we can work in coordination with our wives to create an environment that is a complete refuge. It's an arc from the terrible wayward, dangerous world. What are some ways that you and your wife and some of your friends because you guys kind of put together a really cool playbook and curriculum almost. On the time I'm out stronger boy way. Yeah, called the stronger boy way. Pretty cool, right? Very cool. We just started it. Yeah. What do you think so far? We just started it. Okay. We just did the commitment to each other. That is all in past. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Is that a cool moment for you? It's super cool. That's great. I need to get a backpack though now with like Velcro or something. So that he has a place to put on. Yeah. Because I saw you did that. I'm like, oh wait, that way you can like brag and show your other buddies if they're going through it.

1:04:26Bro, and if like my boys we go to church, they bring their backpacks because they're my boys always have their everyday carry on them. They've got their knives. They bring hatches. They've got medical kit. They've got their bibles and they've got extra books. They're always ready. And right there on the back of their packs is all these patches they've earned by doing the stronger boy way. So tell us about the stronger boy way and things that other families and men listening can do. Whether they get it or not, I think they should. It's awesome to start raising strong boys. I say stronger boy way is a right of passage. It's a way for a father to initiate a boy into masculinity. Boys don't just become men. They have to be initiated. They have to be forged. They have to suffer. They have to gain skills and hard one knowledge of a man needs to suffer in to man. Boy needs to suffer in to manhood because our job is to be protectors and providers and leaders and none of that comes cheap. So the stronger boy way allows us

1:05:31to have kind of this field manual guide, the stronger boy way that comes with a book and then it comes with all this, these different patches of someone got the stronger boy way kit and we're like, I want to do this with my son. So you go through the guide and you have all these different challenges of like hey, fire starting. You need to learn how to start a fire from just a Pharaoh rod and you got to be able to gather all your tender and your wood and be able to understand how to to build that and bring a mature fire. And you got. That's awesome. 25 minutes to gather your resources and get a full fire ready and go. And he's like, I remember my oldest son doing this and he was born sweating. It almost went out and I'm like, Oh, he's going to fail. He's going to have to try again later. And he barely, I mean, just this tiny little flicker. And finally he got and just pouring sweat down to the last minute. He won his patch. And now he starts to fire like nothing. We have a wood burning stove and it's so pitifully easy. And then they get their knots patch to get their heavy rug patch and all these different things of like the baker or the chef

1:06:36where they have to cook three full meals for the entire family. The giver and the saver. They got to get a job that the martial artist, the, you know, first responder where you're doing all this medical stuff. So, you know, kayaking and you name it. If like there's 70 different patches that they can earn the gentleman patch take mom out on a date. You dress up nice. You open doors. You ask her questions. This is the only patch that mom awards. And if you, if if he does a good job and he was a gentleman, mom will award the gentleman patch for him. And he's got to pay for the date with his own money that he earned. And so it's really, really cool. Whereas a man takes his son through all these different skill challenges. And so really, really fun process. Now when I look at my son's backpacks just filled with patches because we've been at this a while. I don't see the patches anymore. I see memories attached to him like, Oh, I remember that. That was that was a real

1:07:39fun memory. So, and these are sacred memories of stronger boy ways. Probably one of the most important things I've ever done with my sons. I mean, aside of where worshiping together, family of faith. Yeah. I'm reading to them most nights and for years and years, especially when they're younger, I didn't really miss nights. I'm like, I'm reading all the time to them books of adventure and slaying dragons and stuff, but stronger boy way. One of the most important things I've ever done with my boys. So if folks are interested, stronger boy way, you can get at WarriorPost tidy.com. Very cool. Well, there was a day and age not that long ago, John, where most of those experiences and skills were necessary. Yeah. That's right. And now they have to be manufactured. Right. Sometimes I wonder, and maybe here's a question for you, how much of our

1:08:43decadent, confused, perverted, weak culture is simply due to two generations, three generations of men who didn't have to do anything all that hard. Yeah. That's right. And then they went off to college and they were turned into little Marxists. Yeah. So now you have weak men who expect life to be handled to them on a platter who will wind and scream if it doesn't. And now they want lots and lots of power. Yeah. That's scary. And one thing that can avert all of this stuff is you just do hard things with your sons. Right. You give them real challenge. So they're not, they don't have their head and video games. No. Because they're with the male impulse in a video game is I want to accomplish something great. And they're in that, in that artificial world, you're collecting gold that you have found. You're vanquishing foes. You have saved the universe

1:09:46from intergalactic destruction. And what did mom do? Vacuum? Oh, dad's doing his job. I just saved the whole universe. You're welcome. You know, boy has a drive. All of us should have a drive to accomplish something to matter, to mean something. And boys will go to the path of least resistance unless led somewhere else. And so they can find some type of a way to satiate their ambition through video games rather than doing actual tangible real things that are good. It's kind of like you can you can satiate your appetite with a double bacon cheeseburger and a milkshake. You won't be hungry anymore. But your body is weakening and being poisoned. Similarly, boys need real physical struggle. You know, like is they're like, well, it helps with hand eye coordination. I'm like, so does boxing. And at the end of the day, you have boxed. You have grown in character. You've got faster and you can beat someone up in real life. You don't have to play street fighter.

1:10:47You know, so if like get real skills, do hard things. And as men do hard things together, we become brothers and we come with fathers and sons. And it strengthens those relationships. It strengthens them in every way, not a false confidence that really just boosts narcissism. When you increase, increase a child's self esteem, devoid and bereft of any real struggle and accomplishment, you actually just boost narcissism later. And so they need actual real struggle. They need to have skin needs and nose blades. They need to try something hard and then fail. Get back up, try again and fail again. And dad is right there the whole time being like, buddy, I know it's a failure, taste like to. But let me show you what perseverance tastes like. And it's going to hurt. But when we're done, you're going to be a champion. And I'm going to help you do that. And so that's the journey I'm on. My boys will have humility because the

1:11:48challenges they've undertaken have humbled them. They're going to have close, deep relationships with me and each other because we walk through the fire together. You know, they have the daring to do hard things in their future in their careers. They're going to ask out the pretty girl. They're going to do the scary thing because we are building a life of doing hard things and going at challenges rather than shrinking from them. And so what it turns out is is a man needs to initiate a boy into masculinity. And if he doesn't, they grow up, but they they stay boys. They can shave. They can get money. They can get responsibility. But they never knew what it was like to shoulder the burdens of others. A man has given strength by God to be strong because we're meant to bear the burdens of others. That's why he made us stronger. It's because we're meant to carry a wife in a family. I'm going to support these kids and I'm going to support this community in this workplace. And then this church, we've been given strength so that we can bear the burdens of

1:12:52others. And is long in if a boy isn't carrying anyone's burdens, a boy is a burden in of itself. Maybe they learned to stay on their own two feet. They get out of mom's basement. They get a job. They work hard. They budget. They save. They add value and they can stay on their own. But still, that's not even good enough. We're not meant to just carry our own burdens. We're meant to be so strong that we can carry the burdens of others. And now we've moved into what masculinity is really about. It's about being protectors of others and providers for others about leading others, about loving others, protect a provider leader lover. That's what manhood is. And if we never step into it, we never actually step into manhood. We stay perpetual spoiled, entitled week-a-feet boys. And that masculinity, which is actually the devoid of masculinity, will be called toxic. Because as no virtue, it has no strength of character, as no force of will, as no holy, godly ambition that builds great things and protects people that are weaker than it.

1:13:53And so it's no wonder they call it toxic. It's so they've never really experienced the health of what the patriarchy used to stand for. Well, there's the trailer clip for the whole episode. What's one of the curses in the Old Testament that women and children are your rulers? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Like Deborah, Deborah in the book of Judges. I mean, she was the best judge in all of Judges. She was a wonderful ruler. Incredible. But though she did well. So amen to Deborah. Way to go, you go, girl, you did great. Her existence is an indictment against an all-you-week men can't do it. So I'll do it. So what it was is an indictment against. There's no male leaders worthy. So here's a worthy woman. So no, no, no shade thrown against Deborah. She was there and she was ready to step into it. It was where there are no men that could have led. No, there wasn't.

1:14:55Right. Deborah is not an argument for egalitarianism. No. No, but I mean, like, I'd but look how good she did, John. She did. So she did. So she'll wear all the men. So she shouldn't have like women CEOs just everywhere and every nonprofit. And it's like, no, that's not what that meant. That yeah. Yeah. I don't have a problem with women leading in general on just different secular organizations and women. I mean, my wife is leading my teenage sons right now. Yeah. And she's leading women's ministry. And in some capacities of like, she's setting up an event and a guy is there of like, hey, how can I help? Oh, all of a sudden, she's she's leading them in a smaller capacity as well. So I don't really have a problem with women leading in a secular. I do have a problem with them leading spiritually as a pastor or as an elder. So if man is supposed to be the head of the wife and a pastor is kind of acting as the head pastor, he's acting as a head

1:15:57of all the heads of household. Well, the head of all the heads of household shouldn't be a woman. That doesn't make sense. And then you can go with the scriptural arguments as well. Like none of the 12 apostles were women. None of them. You couldn't throw one in there. Mary of Bethany or Mary Magdalene of like, they seemed to like first to see him at the grave. Couldn't they have been one of the 12 disciples? No zero priests in all of the Levitical history, zero priests of God were women that that hmm, we call it a clue. And then you've got brazen texts, which specifically say, I do not permit a woman text or size authority of a man and then it ties it to early to the earliest arguments. It was not a cultural thing. It's for Adam was made first and Eve was taken over. And Adam didn't know, you know, and Adam wasn't deceived. Eve was deceived. And so there's an argument from headship that goes back to the garden, which means it precedes all time and all culture.

1:17:03And so of like these scriptural arguments. And so and for like all of just lowercase O orthodox Christian history, we've understood that men should be pastors. And it's only until our feminist presence when all these evangelical leaders are vacillating. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe the Bible is okay with it. This was never an argument before. It's just no, you're just, you're you have been duped by feminism. That's what it is. These weren't real, these were not real questions for the last couple thousand years. It's just the most feministic moment and all of human history is upon us. And we just can't see what is right smack dab in front of us in the scriptures. I was in a, yeah, a woman has a woman should submit to a man. It's funny. No woman can go to heaven if she refuses to submit to at least one man. Got to submit to Jesus, a man where you'll go to hell. That's true. She's like, I don't like that. I'm sorry. I have to submit

1:18:10to the same man. It's not hard for me to submit to that one man. Why is, why does her spirit recoil at the idea of submitting to a man? I have no problem to, well, because it's the curse. Yeah, it is. You're desirable for your husband, but he will rule over him. And there's something in the prideful heart of women in general that review no man's going to tell me what to do. No one's in charge of me. I'm not accountable to anyone. I don't have to be responsible for anything. No, man tells me I'm a strong and independent woman. Yeah. And that's the thing of what, and meanwhile, I'm under authority. I have no problem. I can take orders. I can give orders. This seems quite natural. I have no problem submitting to other men and authority, but it's really hard for women to do, especially their husbands. And that is the curse. That is the demonic work in life, in your life. And what you don't realize is through submission to a godly man, your marriage will flourish. But until you submit to your husband as the head of the household, your marriage is never going to flourish like it like it should, like it could. The Lord has instituted this of like,

1:19:15the husband is the head of the wife as a crisis the head of the church. Submit to your wife. Submit to your husbands as you submit to Christ. Submit to your husband as if he were Christ. Not not that he is Christ. People immediately take Ephesians 5 and misunderstand it and saying no, as a as a sacrifice and worship to Christ, submit to your husband. Just like when we give to somebody the week and the homeless sets you did unto me. So even if your husband doesn't deserve it, submit to him. Take the lesser role. Be his helper. You're his helper. He's not your helper. He's the head. You're not the head. You can be the heartbeat. Can't be the head. He's the head. He's the leader. Submit to him whether it deserves it or not because he's called to love you whether you deserve it or not. So you could submit to him whether he deserves it or not. Follow him and the Lord will count it as righteousness unto you. Wives submit to your husbands as you do unto the Lord. But women like age of feminism,

1:20:18women can't hear it. They just see red. Nope. It's 50 50. And if a girl has you in a 50 50 leadership relationship, making her mistake, she's pulling those levers. You're not in charge. She is. So are you saying Eve was the first feminist? No. Oh no. No. She wouldn't be an eponymous. She knew her. But she was definitely deceived. Well, she was she was she was talking to a snake. Yeah. And I like to think it was a dragon. But he knows that she shouldn't have been doing that. Yeah. And Adams over there being a beta male. Watching his bride talk to a dragon. Yeah. I mean, this is the 21st century. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I'm a bunch of women. I don't know that I would retaining the lies of the dragon. Yeah. While the men who ought to know better are watching it happen. Yeah. And not saying anything. Yeah. And maybe it's because like Eve,

1:21:22a lot of the women that today's men are watching talk to dragons are mostly naked. Yeah. Hey, it's good work. I mean, it's good work. I like how we need a band blue lemon. I think so. Oh, no. Yeah. I'm so glad. I'm not really sure what Lulu lemon is. So I think I just want I think I just passed a masculinity test. There was one. If there was a vying for my man card, I will keep it intact. Did you know that in Genesis and the Hebrew Adam is not referred to as a man until Eve is created. He's called Adam. Yeah. He's referred to as Adam before Eve. Yeah. But he doesn't become a man. He's not called a man. Yeah. Until meaning the naming convention. It's not like all of a sudden he became a man because a woman existed. But he was referred to as that

1:22:22because there was now a woman. Yeah. So now we need names of distinction. Yeah. So their ontology hasn't changed. But the semantical device is helpful for drawing a distinction. Yeah. No, that's cool. That's interesting. I haven't thought about that. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Adam just means dirtcloth. And Eve. Eve means she's called like flesh. Seth, you were a dirtcloth. Which tells you everything you need to know about men and women. By the way, this kind of the law. I don't know how, but this theologically kind of checks out. I'm not really sure what any of this means, but it's got the ring of truth here. flesh. Yeah. Yeah. I think most of our problems are probably because we refuse to defend or live out the creation ordinances defined by God in the first few chapters of the Bible. Yeah. And there's no coincidence that God sort of defines everything in the first few chapters.

1:23:26You got the gender binary. You've got what marriages. Right. You've got the roles she's taken from his side. She has his helpmate. He brews as her can ed go. It means like warrior for a purpose. She is his helper, a warrior for a greater purpose for the kingdom. She's just serve him and he's to die for her. Right. And then you've got you've got that you know this doesn't work. So only Adam and Eve can only the male female can actually create humans spit out humans. Right. And then like and then you got the parental rights thing going on because obviously you created these children. So you're accountable for how they're raised. Right. As stewardship unto their real father. I mean, so what do we have here in the first few chapters of the Bible? You've got sanctity of life. You've got the gender binary. Yeah. You've got what marriages. You've got what it's for. Right. It's for creating new life. Right. Being fruitful and multiplying. And then you've

1:24:27got the cultural mandate and dominion command to like go exercise stewardship and dominion over the entire world and that creative, powerful outflowing is supposed to come from the family itself. That's right. That's the bedrock civilization all unit. That's right. Now how many pastors are preaching that regularly as part of the DNA of their church and what the families for. I don't know. It is exciting though is I'm traveling on the country speaking and filling pulpit and doing men's conferences and speaking at churches. I'm meeting a lot more that are. It does feel like that's that's exciting of like I do see a resurgence of godly and courageous men and that's exciting. But you're right. You can number 100 for everyone. Good courageous gospel exoriting man. But I think folks are waking up. I think God is rising up.

1:25:29People from all kinds of crazy different sources will make now. God pushed me into the pulpit, which I really didn't want to do. I've started a church, great city realm. And so I'm in the pulpit. Most Sundays preaching. And I'm a YouTuber man. What do you talk about? I mean, I'm the YouTube gun guy. And now I'm in the pulpit. That's not to blame. A lot of people don't know this. I was a foreign missionary and Bible teacher for years before I ever did YouTube gun guy thing. So I actually am a pastor turned YouTuber before I'm a YouTuber turned pastor. Okay. So you've come full circle. I really have come it. It looks like it a departure. And it's actually a full circle. But anyway, I've noticed the Lord is raising up some really strong and godly men. I've been able to meet a lot of them. And these are like the best dudes on the planet. The best dudes on the planet. You meet them and you become best friends immediately. You want to go do karate and the garage with them. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess one of the encouraging takeaways from history is that

1:26:33one, God never leaves us without a remnant. And two, he always uses that remnant to do have an outsized influence for the kingdom. And for the next generations, that you wouldn't have expected given the size or percentage that that remnant represented. Right. And so as we sort of like land and finish, you didn't tell us your favorite secular pagan warrior poet. I'm sweet on them. So don't be too mean. I'm sweet on represented this sort of chivalric ideal. And then in addition to that, like what are some awesome books and stories that you would encourage young men, aspiring husbands and fathers, husbands and aspiring fathers to read. I love it. I mean, to be encouraged. I'm into it. All right. These are good questions. All right. So the secular warrior poet, I got to

1:27:35visit a cell where he was kept, uh, present to his death sentence in Athens, Greece. You want to take a stab at who he is? In Athens, Greece. Athens, Greece. I visited his cell, his prison cell. I'm not sure. Right before his death. Uh, it was Socrates. Oh, wow. Who was a great defender of truth. And whereas theologically, I mean, I'm not where Socrates is, but at least appreciate him as the consument philosopher. This is what real philosophy is. As you're thinking hard about life's biggest decisions. You're trying to put all the pieces together. You're creating some kind of worldview. And then not only do you think it, but you live it and you die for it. Wow. The softest of the 21st century, which really most everyone is a postmodernist, which is not a philosophy at all. It masquerades his philosophy, but really it's an anti philosophy because it destroys all truth. It says there is no truth, except the individualized truth that you where I have. And so everyone has

1:28:38a different truth and everyone's right. And so if everyone has a different truth, well, surprise, surprise, there is no truth. Uh, and so it's an anti philosophy. It's not a philosophy at all. But I like Socrates in that he was a true philosopher in that he believed he was on a search. He was learning. He was growing. Uh, but his philosophy was active in his life. And he believed it. He was all in for it, even to the death because the governing authority seeing what all of his questioning did try to silence him. And when he wouldn't be silenced, they tried to exile him. And when he refused exile, they says, all right, well, then drink him, lock and die. And he's like, cheers to the truth at all costs. And then he ends up drinking death upon himself. So I'm like, they're right there. You see a philosopher. You see a brave poet, but what people don't know about him as he was also a great warrior. You know, if like he would fight beside, um, I think all

1:29:40subiites and like the time of the Peloponnesian war and even like courageous and brave in battle, when his war captain is almost being overrun and killed, he alone comes in and he's just wielding swords and throwing down stack and bodies until the line was able to advance, grab him up and pull him back into of like dangerous battle, hardened philosopher right here, who's also like, uh, you know, all in of like that, that dude, I just read the philosophy stuff. Why didn't you lead with that warrior poet? And so that that's a real fun story right there that people don't know about. Patreous Socrates, just the Socratic method, like sitting around asking questions. I'm like, dude, that's cool. Stack bodies. Like everyone pays attention. Professor Socrates is speaking about and he might kill you. That's when body count meant something different. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, when that, when that, so when I first

1:30:41learned of what body count was a few years ago, I really thought people were asking me how many get, you know, like, oh, some gal talks about her body counts for and I'm like, oh, she's killed four people. Wow. I've like, she has really tiny arms. I mean, like, I didn't know. I mean, like, I didn't know. Now it's still like, no, it's four abortions. I've killed four people. Yeah. Yeah. Not a good thing. So it still checks out. Anyone with a high body count in the sexual world has a high body count in the kill count too. If you're a girl, most likely, probably one, one, one did. So one is tied to the other more than I thought. But anyway, books. Let's transition real quick. We're talking about that. Well, wow. Yeah. Anyway, just just a thought for you. I mean, that's that's what I said. Some books. So I'm talking to you about on your show. I really can't separate weird sex stuff from maybe killing. That's right. But I've never heard

1:31:42someone say it like that before. Thank you for just saying you're welcome. Just so much clarity. But all that was powerful. You got it. Take it and run with it. Yeah. I will quote you when I use it. Oh, no, take credit for yourself. Like, I'm totally going to rip you off on some stuff too. I've actually just changed the cover jacket on your book. So, yeah, I'll sign up for you. Is it soccer teams now? It's like just stacking bodies. Exactly. Book. I just changed the cover by John Lowe. Okay. Though it's the lastest stand. What I love about your book is you are going through some kind of warrior poet-esque figures. But you unearth a lot of our church fathers that are incredible. Yeah. Wild testimonies. Like, as soon as you, I heard you say Athanasius, I'm like, oh my man, the great defender of the Trinity. This guy is a baller. I mean, you got to talk. I was sharing some of the radical escape

1:32:43stories as this persecutors are trying to kill them. And he has all these things. Really fun stuff. But anyway, those were really fun of read about the church fathers. Yeah. Read Bruce Shelley's church history and plain language. Right. Right. Then read the last stand. This does a great job. But I really like if somebody's looking for great heroes, if the past, look no further than church history itself, because it has, it has a faith application as well. So it's not just hero worship. It's the right men of the faith tied to a great God that exalted them. Yeah. And pulled them to do great things. So you get kind of a double win there. It'll enrich your faith and there's something great for boys turning into men right there. So you get a double waming right there. Other than that, biographies of great men before you're favor. I like, so I like historical fiction as a genre. Cool. And so if some folks don't like reading, and that's most

1:33:44people and most folks listening, they were sent through government schools. You're homeschooling your kids, but you went to government schools. And the very first thing government school does is kills your love of reading. Yeah. Step one, you enter government school. You may have like reading as a kid, but you are done with it. As soon as you enter a government school, and typically you won't pick up an actual physical book ever again. Because that's what government school does. It kills your love of learning, particularly for the boys, not as much for the girls for the boys. Kills love of learning kills love of reading. And then you're done reading. And that, that, that's the maniacal, even if your government school isn't doing weird gender games and stuff like that. And you're like, oh, my government school is good. No, it's not because it's killing your boys love of learning and just I love reading. I loved meeting some of the students at the school that you guys have started. So fun for baller. Yeah. Thank you. So, yeah, for listeners, we just started our own homeschool co-op. And I mean, it's brand new. We got like 50 kids. It's so cool. And yeah, you came in for a podcast and you're like, let's go do gun stuff

1:34:46afterwards. I'm like, great, but it's going to cost you. So I took you by our homeschool co-op. And I planted you in front of, I don't know, it's probably just like 30 kids. It's got the great Seth groomer who speaks to entire like packed out room hundreds or thousands of people out here. And I'm like, here's my 30 kids. Tell them things. I gave you no warning. I gave you no heads up. I'm like, here, say things to my kids. I love them. Yeah, I love them. But they were, they're incredible kids and they're readers and they love learning. And so we're doing something different with our kids. But anyway, for folks that didn't have that advantage that I didn't. But like like Veritas Hall or our school who are out there. If you don't like reading, you will still love Stephen Pressfield's military historical fictions. So gates of fire, you're going to go through Deanna Kiss and Leonidas, his battle against Xerxes, which is a hasurus, Esther's husband and the book and the Bible. So you're going to read all about the hot gates

1:35:50and thermopoli. That's a really cool story. And so you get to see about all those sacrifice and man it. It's warrior poetry. They're telling, they're telling real history. But then there's these characters around it. Yeah, you have, you have fixed, fictitious embellishment. Yeah. Which is okay. You're like, and then Deanna Kiss was thinking this and then he said this. And we know some of the outlines of his actual life. So it's good assumptions that he may very well have thought that and said something. Yeah, those are fun. So it's, it's fictitious development. But what it does is it makes the real history that you see everywhere in it. It makes it stick. And you can actually go there and visit. So I love historical fiction. They're cool. Because it's, it's one of the funnest ways to learn real history. That's awesome. So gates of fire, then like virtues of war, tides of war, manned arms, and all these different historical fiction novels, where you're visiting like the Peloponnesian war. You know, you're visiting Alexander the Great and going on with him on his war campaigns. Also, the Afghan campaign is another book I just finished.

1:36:51But you're going and seeing it, you know, warrior poets in action throughout the ages in a really, really fun way. So that's a, that's a pretty good plug right there. Pressfield's not a Christian. He's, he's, he's a bit new agey. But one of his books, Man, it arms will surprise you. Because I'm like, after that, I even talked to Pressfield who I really like. I used one of my favorite authors. They're not a Christian. I'm like, are you a Christian? And he gave me this big new age answer. I'm like, all right, certainly he's not. But this was an incredible book. So there he goes. Yeah. Awesome. Less question. Is Nick Frieda, even a Christian? No, I'm a dear. So nor a man. It's not decent. Is well, we should, we should, when we stop rolling the cameras, we should probably, yeah, pray for him to send up some prayers. Probably. I mean, you're going to need a lot, you need to bring a lot of people. You want to show? He hasn't released it yet. But I was like, so no, I was getting you. People in the comments are like, what I love Nick? What does matter?

1:38:00All right. We have an internet beef. I love Nick. That feels like ash in my mouth. Nick is a good buddy. Like before I came up today for your show, I was texted him because of like, I'm a swing through it. I don't think we have time today. But me and Nick are buddies and we like to raz each other and humiliate each other publicly on the internet. But we're missionally alive. It's very healthy. He is, do not let him see this. So kind of block him on any of this. But you probably need him so that he reminds you that the warrior poet is in fact a small T. That's right. Nick is a good man. He is an advocate for the unborn. Yeah. He is a good model and mentor for boys that are sheltering into what real masculine it he should look like. Yeah. He is an example of a legislature that didn't take the briefcase of money and actually stood up for values. His green beret, formerly, he's forced for good out there. So we're missionally aligned and

1:39:08every win that he gets is a win for me. And so when for you, I've had a lot of show. I love that brother. Yeah. And he's super quick too. He's super smart. Yeah. He's super smart. So, oh, I hate all that. I got to go quick. Well, five minutes. He's the worst is terrible. He's got bad hygiene. He should be banned from online. No one should watch him. He's the worst guy. All right. Well, thanks, John. I'm praying that this blesses and inspires a lot of dudes. And I think we're living in a civilizational moment. And I think we have a window of time. That could be decades, but it's still a window to turn things around. And I think if America may be the strongest adherent in the modern age to Western civilization is to prevail, it's destiny will be determined within our lifetime. Yeah. And our children will reap the glories

1:40:08or shoulder the consequences consequences. That's good. So thank you for what you're doing. Yeah, you as well. And now let's go shoot stuff for you guys. I don't know. I tuned Spotify YouTube. Give the show a rating and review. We so appreciate it. Hopefully this one won't be a shadow band as me on the Warrior Poet podcast. Good Lord. But subscribe or rumble or free speech lives because YouTube's gay, but we have to use it because it's the second largest search engine in the world. And leave us five stars on Apple Podcast. Tell us why you like the show. We read those that it actually shoved the shoves the show up the charts. We really appreciate it. And go to the white rose dot life. If you want to become an ally of the white rose resistance and so into what we're doing to awaken and mobilize the local church to end abortion. Until next time, I'm Seth Gruber. And this is the Seth Gruber show. The the THG.