The Cheat Sheet: Speed and Skulls

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I'm Anya, and today we're going to talk about a range of cases from the United Kingdom, California, Florida, as well as Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Content warning, this episode contains a discussion of murder and violence, including the murder and sexual assault of children.

Today on the cheat sheet, I'm going to be doing two cases that were recommended to me by listeners.

I'm not.

Nobody recommends cases to me.

They always recommend cases to you.

Always want to make your job as easy as possible.

That's definitely what's going on.

You're resentful of our listeners.

No, I love our listeners.

I love the states of this country.

I love everything.

No, you don't love the states of this country.

I'm the only one who does.

I love many of the states.

No, you hate some states, including states that our listeners are in.

They're sitting there right now in the states that you hate.

You hate those states.

No, I ran the numbers.

I got deep into the data.

And the only states I don't like are ones where we have no listeners.

Oh, interesting.

Okay, now he's backtracking.

Yeah.

Because the controversy got too great.

All right, so let's go ahead.

Let's go ahead.

My name is Ania Keane.

I'm a journalist.

And I'm Kevin Greenley.

I'm an attorney.

And this is the murder sheet.

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reported.

Interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

We're the murder sheet.

And this is the cheat sheet, speeds and skulls.

I know, Ania, you're always obsessed with the channel, which is a way to travel between England and France.

But what is your favorite way to travel from here to London or to England as you're about to do?

Is there an underground labyrinth or way to go across the ocean underwater?

I know.

I've never been to England.

And I've also, I don't know if any tunnels.

I hope this isn't the first episode somebody's listening to because they're going to be very confused.

To the new listeners, Ania is really obsessed with the channel.

She talks about it a lot.

That's not true.

It's also, now that you're, we're starting over in, and I say keep on saying London.

We're starting in the UK, I'll just curious if there's any special transport, any fun transport that you would like to use.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, I know I'd be too scared to go one of those just a normal plane about like a drone.

I'm going to be flying on a drone to go to England.

You tell me I think I'll just I'll just I'll just use the internet.

Well we do appreciate our United Kingdom and English and and and listeners abroad in general

but we do appreciate you guys listening and recommending cases because it's always an

interesting way to learn about some some different cases and a listener actually recommended

this case.

It's an older case but there's been some recent developments and my source for this

one was the BBC and this concerns the horrific case of Ian Huntley a convicted murderer

who recently died on March 7th, 2026.

He was murdered himself.

He was killed in a well he was attacked in prison and sustained head trauma from a

makeshift weapon at the HMP Franklin on February 26th, 2026.

He was left on life support for a while but then it was switched off and he died on March

7th.

It been found a like lying in a pool of blood in this workshop and the BBC reported

that a killer named Anthony Russell who's 43 was suspected of attacking him.

This is not the first time Ian Huntley was attacked in prison.

He had been attacked actually a number of times before and when you learn what he did

it is not it is not hard to understand why that was.

Ian Huntley was convicted of murdering two young girls Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells

in 2002 and this is a very haunting case and my understanding is I mean these are two

10 year old girls first of all and in addition to that it's it's horrific but there's also

a lot of lingering unknowns which I think sometimes that makes people so uneasy understandably

myself included because it's like you can kind of fill in the most horrific possibilities.

So Holly and Jessica were good friends.

They were at a family barbecue near the small town of in the small town of Soam Cambridge

Shire and that's near Cambridge and this is Sunday, August 4th, 2002 and at some point

they leave Holly's house and they are looking to buy sweets I think from a vending machine

not too far away.

They passed by Ian Huntley's house and the thing about him is that he was living with

his girlfriend, a woman named Maxine Carr.

Carr was the teaching assistant so she was known to both girls.

Maxine Carr was actually away in Grimsby at the time but basically using that connection

and it's believed that Ian Huntley was able to lure them into his home.

And at some point I think they left around 6pm and then maybe like 45 minutes later Jessica's

mobile phone goes off and we don't really know what happened to them.

We don't know what he did to them and that's I think maybe one of the most troubling things

about this.

So a few hours later at 8pm the parents noticed that they have never come back from the

sweets of shopping expedition and it's past Holly's curfew they go on a search, 9.55

I think they're reported missing officially and their photo becomes kind of famous.

They kind of like people are like following this.

It's a scary thing where he's like adorable 10 year old girls disappear.

It's very suspicious.

It's very sinister.

People want to know what happened.

Can they be recovered safely?

What's going on?

Meanwhile Ian Huntley starts doing a lot of press around this.

He starts doing interviews.

You know, in the days after they're missing he's kind of acting like he's a concerned,

you know, neighbor and saying all this weird stuff.

Then the girls bodies are found August 17th, 2002, 13 days after they went missing, a three

people found their charred remains and decomposed remains in an irrigation ditch in Suffolk

about 10 miles away from Soam.

And the next day the police came out and said, hey, we believe that these are the girls,

but it was positively formalized with DNA identification on August 21st and Huntley is arrested.

And you know, again, this is after giving a lot of very bizarre interviews.

So even though, again, they don't really quite know what happened.

Police concluded that the girls had likely been as exfixiated and that this was likely sexually

motivated and they had good reason to believe that it's because Ian Huntley was a pervert

who had abused multiple underage girls sexually.

Many of them did not go forward to police or complain.

This is in the 90s.

And then in 1998, he was charged with raping a 18-year-old young woman.

Those charges were dropped.

Then he was accused of doing that to another 18-year-old woman charged with a drop.

He was accused of indecently assaulting an 11-year-old in 1997.

There was another rape case brewing in 1999, but Maxine Carr gave him an alibi.

And let's go back to Maxine Carr.

This is a woman working with children, a woman who is teaching.

She gave this guy a fake alibi.

She was also found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice by doing that.

She's ultimately been released from prison and has a new identity now.

I don't know why, I mean, I don't know.

I'm not going to tell another country how to do their laws.

I feel like you should have to live with that shame.

What you did to those kids, it's not like something where you made a bunch of bad decisions

as a really young person and shoplifted or got into drugs.

I mean, you helped a rapist pervert try to get away with murdering two kids.

I think there's nothing lower than that other than doing it, you know, other than doing the actual murders.

So, Huntly, despite all of this, was able to kind of be free in society and despite.

And also, you know, he actually had a job with a school.

So, I mean, this is, I mean, it obviously, you know, caused a lot of outrage when this all came to light.

But it's a horrible story.

What happened to these two young girls is just absolutely horrific.

And it just, it's now, I guess, in a way kind of come to an end because the guy who perpetrated it is gone.

And, you know, good riddance.

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That's what I have to say.

Fair enough.

Thank you to the listener who recommended it.

Well, I want to go all the way from England, all the way across.

All across the states, all the way to the west coast of our country, California.

And my source for it I'm about to talk about as the guardian.

And I always find it interesting when we come across these cases where a person ends up getting

charged with murder and they didn't wake up that morning intending to kill someone.

But they did something that resulted in a person's death and now they're facing consequences

for it.

I find those interesting.

Don't you?

I really do.

Yeah.

So this is the case of a 24 year old guy named Angela Rodriguez.

He was a California highway patrol officer and I'm sure this is before your time on

you.

There used to be a TV show about these guys called chips.

Yeah.

I've seen me TV.

I never watched it.

A couple of cool guys riding around California highways on their motor cycles fighting crime

I guess.

Did you watch it?

No, but I knew I knew it existed.

I know it existed because like you watched me TV a lot.

You watched some Hogan's heroes and then, you know, there's like trailers for other stuff

for those like, hey, watch this too, but I never watched that one.

I think all of us as good citizens have an obligation to be aware of 1970s television

programs.

Right.

Obviously.

That's one of my credos.

But this man was a California highway patrol officer and he's been charged with second

degree murder and what he did was one day for some reason when he is in his vehicle.

He was driving for at 130 miles per hour.

Oh, wow.

That's really, really fast.

If you're not someone who drives and aren't aware of such things, 130 miles per hour is

really, really fast.

Yeah.

It doesn't seem to be a reason, at least not on the record, as to why on earth he was driving

so fast.

So he runs into a car and he, you know, kind of pulls over.

At some point he makes a call.

Oh, there was a police vehicle was involved in an accident, but he doesn't say, you know,

it was my vehicle.

And then he just kind of leaves where he leaves the scene.

Yeah.

He took, and before he left, he didn't do anything to control the scene or do the things

you would expect a law enforcement officer to do in that situation.

I, I, I'm no expert on these things, but I imagine one of the first things you would do

after you make sure everybody is okay.

You, you, you would set up some sort of like boundary or markers around the scene to alert

oncoming motorists, hey, be careful here.

There's something here you don't expect, you know, to avoid a few tracks and he doesn't

do that.

And so tragically enough, a few minutes later, a car crashes into the, the vehicle that

Mr. Rodriguez ran into and now there it catches fire.

And people, people died, four people died in that collision.

And so they are charging him with murder because of his failure to take responsible action

in this matter.

Second degree murder.

What do you think?

Wow.

I mean, yeah, this, I mean, this, the, what you just outlined really raises a lot of questions

about the circumstances of what he was doing or sinking, but I mean, the tragic loss

of life and you actually moved his car, you know, off the road and just turned off the

lights and then he leaves, where do you go?

I'm clear.

Was he like drunk or high or something?

Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing that comes, like, I'm not that that makes a difference.

I mean, that's worse if you're, was he on duty?

That's not clear to me, but it does say in court documents, there was no reason for him

to be driving so fast at the time.

So it's not like he's responding to an emergency.

And I think it's also clear that if he had taken appropriate steps to control and manage

the scene, the second accident would not have occurred and those four people would still

be alive today.

And I'm reading that they believe there were no serious injuries sustained from the first

crash.

I can crash that then killed everybody.

I mean, it's a complicated case, right?

Because, you know, I mean, he definitely left them vulnerable in this situation, even

though it's the second driver who ultimately killed everybody.

Yeah, I mean, I find it very troubling.

I guess I'd be curious to see what the defense says.

I'd be curious to see where this plays out.

And if there's any explanations for any of this, but it's kind of hard to imagine the

why of some of this, you know, like, it's hard to be like, oh, here would be a reason

that fully explains that it just seems very random and, yeah, trying to, again, as someone

involved in law enforcement, you would hope he would have training to how to respond in

a situation like that to control the scene and prevent a future tragedy.

Certainly more training than a person like you or I would have, but there seems to be

no reason whatsoever why he was driving so fast, which caused the first accident.

Yeah.

And that's bad enough.

I mean, that's bad enough.

But what's worse is then not handling it properly, like, because maybe you speed and

you do that.

And then at least you're then protecting people afterwards, like you messed up, okay, don't

make it worse by then just kind of, you know, abstaining from doing what you're supposed

to do.

I don't know.

It's bizarre.

It's a very troubling and weird story.

So should I go now to Florida, yeah, this is a crazy itinerary.

So you were doing a lot UK, California, Florida.

Where's your last date?

It's technically two, it's Wisconsin and Minnesota.

So you are going to cause our travel coffers to be completely, you're going from California

to Florida.

So you're, you know, East Coast, West Coast.

I don't know what you're complaining about, at least with Minnesota and Wisconsin are

near each other.

Well, you know what?

I like going from coast to coast in this great, like, oh, no, you're justifying.

I love all the states.

And I think it's a pleasure to travel wild that, yeah.

You got this tremendous backlash.

You were totally canceled by the listeners.

You were sent all of this hate mail by the people who states you, they felt you might

not approve of.

And now you're stealing my bit where I say, I love all the states and now you're acting

like you're the friend of all the states.

Sir, you are no friend of the states.

Isn't it interesting that Anya refers to her saying she loves all the states as a

bit?

That certainly suggests that it might not be wholly sincere.

So I just know that for the record.

One of the most serious thing about me.

I'm a famous friend of all the states.

Everyone, anyone will tell you that.

Go talk to anyone from any state.

They're going to say I'm a good friend of the state.

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

All right, go.

My source for this is the Miami Herald.

This involves the murder of Derek Lamott Gloucester, Jr. and Brandon Rashad Mills.

This is a tragic story that happened all the way back in January of 2009, where a guy

named William Brown and another guy who since passed away kind of spray bullets into a crowd

of teenagers and 18-year-old Derek and 16-year-old Brandon were both hit and killed.

Mr. Brown later gets sentenced to 25 years for still other murders.

He's believed to have done even though he confessed that he was involved and was responsible

for the shootings of these two people.

The mothers of those two victims were not told that he had made this confession.

They were not told that he had a plea bargain, basically.

The article phrases that this way, they were not told that Mr. Brown, the murderer, had

an unorthodox relationship with a prosecutor named Michael von Zamft.

That prosecutor helped things like he helped Mr. Brown's mother move and help make sure

that some of her rent was paid and was really going to do everything he could to help this

man and his family.

Meanwhile, the mothers of the murder victims aren't told there's been a confession.

When they say, well, we'd like to look at the files in the case so we can use our own

minds that everything was looked at and we can also ease our own minds so we can further

understand why this deal was made.

Florida is saying, well, sure, you can have some of it, but you have to pay $1831 first.

This leaves these two mothers feeling betrayed.

They haven't been treated sympathetically.

They feel that the murdered man's family, the murdered boys' families, it's not being

treated as well as the family of the murderer.

They feel their rights have been violated and they're filing a suit over it.

It sounds like their rights have been violated.

That's disgusting.

I would be willing to donate to their cause, but it sounds like even if they paid all

that, they wouldn't get all the records.

Yeah.

I remember a few years ago we had on a gentleman who talked about cold cases and how he

wanted there to see a situation where it would make it easier.

He wanted to see a situation where it would be much easier for relatives of victims to

access files in the case after a certain amount of time has passed.

It just doesn't seem rational to me to make victims' parents pay close to $2,000 for

this sort of things.

Also when I see a lawsuit like this being filed, it seems to be at the very least a huge

failure on the part of the prosecutor's office because you would think it's some point

before things got to this stage.

They could have sat down with these two women and laid out and explained as much as possible

about their thinking and what happened and why they believe it happened.

What do you think?

Yes.

I think, you know, listen, I understand in general that police and prosecutors, especially

in bustling metropolitan areas are extremely busy and time strapped, but there needs to

be some kind of system, whether that's empowering victim services or whether that's carving

out time or having this be part of the expectations of the job to have those conversations and

set expectations and have accountability and openness with a victim's family.

I really think that is an important part of the job, but this goes beyond simply just

them not keeping them informed.

I mean, this seems like so technically, technically this guy, William Brown has not been convicted

or charged of these deaths.

Is that right?

But he is, it indicates that he is the shooter.

Yes.

He has made statements to that effect, which I've been found to be plausible.

So yeah, that's very concerning.

I mean, I don't even know and I don't, it's vaguely alluded to, but a possible relationship,

not sure what that means between a prosecutor and this guy's mom is like really.

I don't know.

That seems really bad.

We talked recently on a different episode about like, you know, conflict of interest, right?

That would be one.

I would imagine.

Right?

Yes.

If that is true, yeah.

If there is no chance of prosecution in a case, my strong belief is that information

should be released to the families.

Could you argue or carve out certain instances where that would not be appropriate, maybe?

But as a general rule, I think it would be good.

If things are not going to get prosecuted, if there's no case to be made, then what's

the point in keeping its secret?

Yeah.

And I want to be clear, the unorthodox relationship has said to be between the prosecutor and

the shooter, what he did for the mother is he helped her relocate to somewhere else and

then helped arrange it so the police would pay rent for her.

Oh, I'm sorry.

But that's still weird.

I mean, I don't know.

It's like you get, you know, like he's an informant and you, you know, he's being helpful

to you or whatever.

Like, I get that.

But to me, it's like, it should be all done in a way that don't leave families feeling

further victimized by the system.

Yeah.

The families say they feel betrayed and I say that Miami Herald has done wonderful work

on this case.

So yeah, if you want more information, you should definitely check out their series, which

it looks like it's called deal with the devil.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's very upsetting because, you know, like, I don't know.

I get that it's on some level that there is, you know, there's compromises and things

that need to be made in, like in prosecutions and policing.

Like sometimes you have to work with people who have done bad things in order to get answers.

But I think you should, should not be doing so at the expense of these moms who lost

their children, you know, there's ways to, I think you just have to be above board with

people and, you know, and I don't know, I think a lot of victims families that I've talked

to would rather police and prosecutors just be up front with them.

And you know, like, like early on of like things like that, they would write or say, hey,

we have nothing to update, you know, like rather than just ghosting them.

And I think the ghosting happens a lot and it's something that I think needs to be

addressed and needs to be like, there needs to be, there needs to be understanding from

families that police are working like a lot of cases and maybe overburdened, but there

needs to be acknowledgement from police and prosecutors that the families are in a lot

of pain.

This is the most important thing to them and treating them with some care is a good thing.

So very upsetting, very upsetting indeed.

I think you have one more case for us.

I do.

I'm a murder, but well, spoiler, I guess this is Wisconsin and Minnesota.

And things again to the listener who recommended this one.

This is predominantly the article they sent me was from a website called Bring Me the News.

And it kind of it was pretty complicated.

That's what you say every morning.

Yeah, like I like that name.

I get out of bed on the lounges around and says, Kevin, bring me the news.

And I also did some searching around newspapers.com to kind of look into this a bit further.

So yeah, the newspapers were the Milwaukee Journal sentinel access to via newspapers.com.

So this involves the same an investigation from the St. Croix County Sheriff's Office.

And it's this ongoing mystery that's lingered on and at this point it kind of raises some

questions.

So back on October 21st, 2002, a troop of boy scouts were hiking along the St. Croix River

in Somerset Township in St. Croix County, Wisconsin.

They find a garbage bag.

They look inside.

There's a human skull in there.

Okay.

So that's horrifying.

I feel bad for all those kids to have to see that.

And St. Croix County Sheriff's Office is left with a mystery.

What happened?

Why is there a skull in a garbage bag?

You know, that's something that can certainly conjure to mind like, is this a murder?

That's what I would think.

That's what I would think.

Yeah.

Well, the good news is it wasn't, but it's still really creepy.

The St. Croix County Sheriff's Office went to the DNA Doe project back in 2021.

They wanted to figure out who does this skull belong to.

And they're able to put together a family tree and the name Alice Fillin comes up.

But she was found to have then changed her name to Peterson.

And this was an elderly woman.

She's either 91 or 92.

I've seen both reported and she died on July 23rd, 2001, from an aortic aneurysm at the

region's hospital.

So natural causes.

She was not murdered.

She just died at the hospital because she was very old and had this aneurysm.

Her ashes were given to a woman who had been nannied by her and spread on a family farm.

Okay.

So nothing like criminal there, but then how the heck does her skull end up in a garbage

bag?

Well, in December of 2025, a 57 year old man named Benjamin Carl Hanson of Bayport, Minnesota

was arrested and charged with theft and hiding a corpse.

So police were have been digging into how the heck this skull could have gotten there.

And they found that at the time of Alice's death, Hanson worked as a funeral director

for the Simonette funeral home in Stillwater.

And they found talking to employees a couple of things.

The employees said that Hanson would have been the only employee with access to the prep

room in this funeral home and that he was in charge of Peterson's body.

And that in 2001, he, quote, went off the deep end and was admitted to Regens Hospital,

which is seemingly, I don't know if it's the same name or if it's the same hospital

or if it's just part of a chain, but like the same place she was at.

So he, you know, he apparently he had been dealing with some pretty serious mental

health issues and, you know, he's been arrested.

And now they're saying, maybe the, you know, maybe the cremation, like, do they even

know that the, you know, her, you know, survivors even got her ashes, it's not even clear.

But he's been arrested.

He's facing charges around this.

It's a very deeply disturbing case, you know, having somebody decapitate a dead body

and then put their skull into a garbage bag and dispose of it in this way to the point

where it's done by children, obviously this man should have never been working in the

funeral home world and probably should have been, you know, getting extensive mental health

treatment.

If that is, you know, if that is the reason he did that, then I certainly feel sympathetic.

I think if you have severe enough mental health issues that can kind of cause issues beyond

your control.

But also, you know, you would hope that after someone's treated that they would at least

admit to what they had done.

So it wouldn't cause like a two decades long mystery where people think there might be

a murderer running around, you know, like maybe that's a time to go to a lawyer, explain

what happened and take the consequences, maybe a deal could be worked out if you're honest

about it.

You know, like, I feel like they didn't have some accountability, regardless of why this

was done.

But yeah, disturbing, glad it's not a murder, glad Alice was just, you know, was able

to pass away peacefully as an older lady, but also unfortunate that her body was treated

with such, you know, desecration in the aftermath of her death.

But you know, we'll see, I guess what happens?

Maybe Hanson has a good defense for this or maybe saying maybe it was one of the other

employees.

I don't know.

So I mean, we can't necessarily condemn him before he's convicted, but we can certainly

say this is a, you know, matter of concern.

So a very interesting case.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So do we have any appearances for you to talk about?

I don't think at this moment, I think we're all appearance staff for the moment.

We'll be appearing at our own home.

Yeah, we'll be coming see us at any, no, don't come and see us.

I'm joking.

Yeah, we'll be at our house sitting around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're going to come in and find a couple of the listeners sitting in chairs, like waiting

for us to speak.

No, I know you guys wouldn't do that to us.

I think we'll be making some occasional appearances at McDonald's where we'll be eating

our big arches, where the adoring crowd.

So delusional.

Oh, my God, what other appearances do we have planned?

We'll be appearing on the streets with our dog, Nicholas, who, you know, is getting

definitely a lot better with his behaviors.

That's always bad when you're talking about behaviors.

Yeah.

Whirl.

He met for the first time.

My parents came and what you need to know about my parents was that they're very nice

non-threatening people.

And this big tough dog who always struts like he's king of the world terrified of them.

And he's like, who are these people in my house?

And then he's kind of quietly going up to them and licking them tentatively.

And then he warmed up to them.

It was just funny at first, because at first he was just like, I've been home and they

did help me.

It's such a, he's so wimpy.

What did you think was going to happen?

I don't know what he thought.

Yeah.

They took over our house.

It's weird.

I didn't think he was shy with people, but I think we've kind of seen that as he's been

with us longer.

I wonder if just being in the shelter environment made it so like he was used to seeing people

in and out.

But now he's his underlying personality is more like nervous.

I think the longer he lives with us, probably the more like us, he'll become more scared

of people.

We're scared of people more scared of people.

I wouldn't be surprised if he launched a podcast.

Yeah, when we invite friends over Kevin just hides in the corner, it's pretty sad.

He looks at the meaningfully and looks at me.

Why are they doing here?

I don't know.

I guess we are kind of anti-social, but you know, we ran into some very nice neighbors who

were petting him and he was very intimidated.

He was kind of sitting on my feet and kind of like looking away at one point.

I felt bad.

And we didn't make him like say hi to them.

I don't, you know, he can't speak.

Well, we don't want to force him.

Well, I'm saying we don't want to force him to go and they were very nice about they

weren't forcing themselves.

They were kind of just doing an impassive way.

And so it was good, but he eventually kind of warmed up to it and liked it.

But for a minute there, he was just like, I'm shy.

He's a cutie.

And we should have mentioned that when we went to Ohio a couple of weeks ago, again,

we had a great time.

I was so eager and excited to get there that I drove, I think a little bit faster than

I should have.

And I got a traffic ticket entirely, entirely my fault.

But talking about that with you reminded me of an incident where when I was in law school,

I had the opportunity to hang out with the judge for a summer.

And the judge said, I've got some friends in law enforcement.

You should do a ride along with them.

And one guy in particular, he had a reputation.

He would go out and basically hunt for speeders and hunt for traffic in fractions.

And this was legendary.

People would say there was a time when this guy once had,

like, five or six cards lined up that he'd pulled them all over, simultaneously, just

to give them tickets.

What a nut.

People spoke about him in story and song, just this mystical figure.

And he wasn't scheduled to work this particular day, but he says, yeah, I'll come in and

work a shift to give you that experience.

And obviously when you get a ticket, it's really annoying.

I found when I was riding with this guy, there was like something like, yeah, let's go.

You were going to do it.

You're like, let's do it.

I was into it.

Let's get them.

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

And you know, you get no one should give Kevin power ever.

And so we're out there again.

The only reason we're doing this is because the judge said, yeah, why don't you work this day

and have Kevin come along.

And one poor guy is going just a little bit over the speed limit, but this guy, yeah, let's

get him and we get him.

And he pulls him over and he comes back to the car with the guy's license and he looks

at the license license and the name of the license.

And I see his face fall and he says, oh, no.

The person he'd pulled over was the judge's son.

That's like a bad comedy.

Yeah, the only reason that guy got pulled over was because the judge wanted me to have

this experience.

And he looks at me and I don't know what he would have done if I wasn't there, but if

he had said, well, it's the judge's song.

Let's just let him go.

He'd look bad to me.

I don't know, but he gave the guy a ticket.

So that was that story.

Wow.

That's ironic.

I love that.

I'm glad you had an interesting experience though.

Yeah.

I enjoyed doing those right alongs and if anybody, I don't know what the procedure, what the

possibilities for right alongs are where you are.

But if you ever do have the opportunity, it's a wonderful experience.

I've done right alongs back then with the Indian state police and also with the Columbus

police department.

Wow.

Have you done any right alongs?

No.

No, I never have.

And I also did some sort of right along on Lake Monroe, but I told that story long ago.

Yeah.

That was a little PG 13.

And you've only been pulled over once and you would just kind of a frazzled mass.

Who didn't get a ticket?

Yeah.

Who were Mr.

Sneaky attorney and when they asked you, this is Kevin's like, never meant wrongdoing.

And they said, they said to Kevin, well, where are you?

We're speeding.

They said, did you have a reason to be speeding?

Yes.

And I said, I wasn't aware I was speeding because if you say, oh, yeah, here's my reason.

You're basically saying, yes, I'm definitely guilty.

Throw the book at me.

But that can be, they could be trying to trick you.

You don't ever know what you're going to get because they could be trying to trick you

into admitting it.

And then they're going to throw the book at you or they could be, you know, if they're

impressed by your reason, they might be like, ah, it's okay.

Don't worry about it.

I don't think you would have been impressed if I said I'm going to a book signing.

Excuse me.

Yeah.

I don't think that would have worked.

We just really want to go to Ohio.

And in your big strategy, we're going to see the Warren G. Harding Memorial.

Your strategy was basically to panic when you got pulled over.

You were very frazzly.

You said, ah, I don't even know where my license is, sir.

And he felt sorry for you letting you go.

That works a lot of times.

No, that was not me being, that was not me putting on anything.

That's just my natural state of being is being a disaster at all times.

And when people see that, sometimes they're annoyed and sometimes they feel bad for you.

And this, this, this particular gentleman felt bad for me, I guess.

So do you have any anecdotes or stories to tell or?

No.

Nothing going on.

Do you have some aphorism or something for us to think about or something to ponder

as we go into this weekend?

Nope.

I don't.

I just everybody stay safe and drive.

Don't speed.

Just be careful.

That's really dangerous.

We, it's the one good thing about you getting pulled over is it's made me watch my speed

more too.

So we're being very responsible.

It's, you know, sometimes you get pulled over and it stinks, but you got to remember that

like we shouldn't be speaking.

Now, now a few months ago, we talked a lot about my birthday, if hypothetically another

one of us had a birthday coming up, is that something that should be mentioned in the

program?

Would you want to keep that under wraps?

I don't, I don't care.

Why would it?

What is it?

The audio has a birthday coming up.

Yeah.

Not like really big birthday person, I don't really care.

Her birthday falls on Easter.

Yes.

So I was holy day.

So we have to have something set up because like half the day you have to wear your Easter

bonnet and the other half the day you have to wear your birthday bonnet.

I don't, I don't have a birthday bonnet.

People have been concerned about your bonnet talk that you have some kind of weird bonnet

fetish.

I just want to say for the record, he does not.

That's not what this is.

He just thinks the word bonnet is funny.

And we hear sometimes Bing Crosby's Easter bonnet song, it's not what it sounds like.

But also, Ania looks really good in the bonnet.

You say bonnet, but you used me to hat, is it a hat?

Well, isn't a bonnet a particular style?

I mean, I guess technically, but like I think you wouldn't celebrate Easter by wearing

like an Abraham Lincoln style hat.

You'd look ridiculous.

And the people behind you would be outraged because you'd be blocking their view.

It's a particular style of hat.

Perhaps.

Thank you.

So I've won the point.

So let's get out of here.

Geez.

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