The Best (& Worst) Business Classes in the World

0:00Yo, welcome to the show. I'm Gunner. That's Kyle, but with us today is a very special guest. He is thrifty traveler, chief flight deal analyst. He's found every fair that you've ever bragged about booking. He's already qualified for Domino's pizza, titanium elite status, for 2027, a status that they had to create for him. It's John Chalveter. John, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. Got hungry with that introduction. Appreciate that. Work hard for that status, by the way. I'm surprised they haven't given you lifetime status or band you. It's, yeah, could go one way or another. It's always touch and go when John orders Domino's. Okay. Today, I've locked two of our top experts on life, flat business class seats in a room with me. I'm forcing them to organize their thoughts on what business classes are the best? Like what's most worth your points and money? Between the three of us in this room, I calculated that we've flown business class overseas on 26 different airlines in 37 different business class seats. So my question to you guys, is this surreal to you both that we're actually doing a podcast episode like this? Did you ever think

1:04that you would be flying business class to begin with? John, I'll start with you. No, honestly. You know, a few years ago, this wasn't on my radar at all. I never thought I would have the points or the cash or anything to be upfront. So this is, you know, it's quite an opportunity here to chat about some of the best business class products for sure. Yeah, same. Maybe more importantly, I just want to note that we're all hyper aware of the fact that this could just come across as three white men bragging about flying business class. So while we are self-aware enough to know that going into it, we're probably not smart enough to avoid it. So we'll just set the expectation here that we're going to do our best and this is gunner to your point really just about trying to steer people towards the things that are worth it. Maybe what's over hyped or not as worth it to guide people in the right direction for that amazing business class redemption or what's worth spending $2,000, $4,000 on if you have that kind of money, which to the point of your original question, the three of us do not.

2:06John has a elite status at Domino's. He is not forking out five grand to fly business class over to Europe. Yeah, you're right about that. That's right. And, you know, the whole point of this is that all business classes are not created equal. So today on the show, we're going to put these business class experiences into tears from best to worst so you can know what's worth your points. All that and more. This is John from Baraka, Philippines. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveller podcast. All right, welcoming you back to the show this week was this man right here, John Schalveter, from Baraka, Philippines, a trip where he flew Starlux and China Airlines business classes, both of which I'm curious to see where you put into these tears. Let's start the discussion right away, guys. Let's start at the top. In this tier, I'm calling the best of the best. And John, I'll start with you. What is in your top tier nominate an airline business class to put in your top tier? Yeah, I got to start at number one. I got to start at Q suites. And this is a fun

3:06one because this was I was on this flight with Kyle actually right here. This was a work trip. It was really fun. I had never flown business class before. I entered Q suites. And I think I set the bar really high with Q suites. Still, after all these flights, I don't think anything tops Q suites. You know, the whole experience we flew out of Dallas. So we had that flagship lounge in Dallas, which was great. I'd never experienced anything like it. And then you board this flight. And it's just these burgundy and red colors, beautiful leather seats and I don't just the interior is flashy. And then you get in your seat and you got that door that closes. I thought the food was super tasty. Of course, the champagne, the wine and the service was really great. I actually slept for eight hours on this flight, which I've never done in a business class flight. So everything was really, really fun about Q suites. And it's tough to top in my book. That's awesome. And there's been a lot of ink spilled about Q suites over the years. Anything you need to add, Kyle? The internet does not need it. Another mediocre white man telling you how great

4:08Qatar Q suites is now John, John nailed it. I've, that was my first time flying Q suites was with him back in what 2019? I think it was. Yeah. I've flown it with myself and by my wife a couple of times since it can be a little bit hit or miss, but it is an amazing experience. I think holistically, it is the best in the world. And I, that's up for debate. We've got some other good contenders here, but I would be hard pressed to unseat this one from number one. Yeah, you can book these with 70 to 95,000 Qatar obvious each way. I urge you to go check our master transfer partner guide to see how you can get those points in your account. But all flights to North America are on Q suites now. I don't think that they mess around with any of those two, two twos or two, three twos anymore. There's always the chance that you're going to get swapped out into something that's older and not Q suites. But your odds are better than ever that you're going to get one of these good rides if and it really importantly, if you can actually find the awards-based book at this has gotten really, really hard because there are so many people who feel the way that we do and have more

5:13points than ever to book it. All right. Q suites is in tier one. Kyle, nominate one for tier one. I am skipping down the list with maybe a surprise. And I'm going to admit, I've got not just rose colored glasses, but pink Hello Kitty tinted glasses about EVA air. This is my favorite airline in the world. I've flown this twice with my wife. It's just there's something special about it. I do actually think that it is quite good. The seats themselves are not the most modern, certainly not the most private, but end to end from the service to the food and the onboard experience. These have have been two of my favorite flights ever. Maybe it was because it was my honeymoon. Maybe it was because of the Hello Kitty toilet paper. I don't know. I just think you can't beat it. And I think it needs to be on people's radar. Yep. These are also extremely hard seats to book. 88,000 aeroplane points. And I think it's the same rate with United and Lifemiles. Correct. If you can find the award space to book these, but it is very hard. John, any other nominations for this top

6:17tier. I'll just before my next one. I'll just piggyback that. I didn't know Kyle flew Eva on his honeymoon. I actually did the same thing. I flew them to the Philippines, you know, connecting in Taipei on the way. Similar thoughts, amazing product. I flew the dreamliner back from Taipei to Seattle. Amazing experience, you know, beautiful interior. I think even the older on the triple sevens is still a great experience too. So I loved that flight. I can't agree with Kyle anymore, but another one in my tier one here would be the room. And I know all of us have flown that amazing, amazing thing. You know, Japanese carrier. My first impression like you get to your seat and it feels like it's a mini sofa. It's just massive. You have so much room to navigate. So I sat in the middle, staggered rows. So I picked a row in the middle with my wife. We're actually right next to each other. You have more room between you and the aisle, you know, facing opposite directions, row by row. I really liked A&A. The food was great. Japanese service was top tier.

7:17TVs are massive, you know, the 24 inch TV was great. And I drank whiskey on that flight. I'm not a big hard liquor guy, but Japanese whiskey just kind of kept coming and it was really fun. I loved that flight. Just kind of kept coming. It's really, really taken though and it's off of you. Yeah, no, no responsibility, no personal responsibility at all. It just kept showing up at your seat. I can't plus one this more for all the exact same reasons. You said, happiest I've ever been on an airplane was A&A, the room. Watch out when you're booking this. One, it's extremely hard to book now the best way to do it is with Virgin points. You can book it from 52,500 Virgin points from the West Coast, 60,000 from the East Coast in Chicago, A&A miles, 100,000 A&A miles round trip. This is also extremely hard to book, especially with Virgin, it's become nearly impossible. And you have to watch out for the different aircraft types because you want that triple seven, 300 ER, which has the room suites, but there are lots of other triple sevens that don't have it. So you've got to be very careful. Look at your seat maps,

8:19use AeroLopa, but plus one on the room. I think we've all flown that, right? Yeah. I think the seat itself is far and away, the single best thing in business class in the sky. And I don't think that that's up for discussion. I think it's the other things where it may fall short. And I think this is a prime reason why for me, Qatar and EVA are my number two because there is no first class cabin on the Qatar Q suites plane. There is no first class cabin period with EVA, which means you get the best that those airlines offer with A&A. There still is that first class cabin. So it's like they're saving things for those eight people in the fanciest seat up front, which means this service and the food just isn't quite on the level that you're going to get with some other carriers, but the seat itself alone, it merits a spot on this list. Yep. You guys nailed it. John, any other nominations for tier one? All right. I got a wild card here. Some people might not agree with me, but recency bias flew this last month star looks. I flew them Los Angeles to Taipei. Amazing experience. Very futuristic galaxy themed interior. Just beautiful. The orange and gray

9:26and black and copper tones everywhere you look. This massive 24 inch TV similar to A&A. Service was great. The seats just massive. And I thought my favorite part of Starlux, they have a zero gravity feature on their seats. So like they they took some information from NASA, and they looked at this. And you're actually your knees and your feet are slightly elevated above your heart. So I felt like no pressure points. I slept so well on Starlux. It was it was a really fun time. And the whiskey just kept coming. You know? The whiskey kept coming. For some reason, you're getting targeted by flight attendants. They're like, we'll just send this guy a few more whiskeys. A dominoes and whiskey potent combination. You I assume you booked this with Alaska at most. You can book it for 75,000 or 85,000 Alaska at most. And Starlux flies from LAX Phoenix and Seattle and San Francisco and Ontario. Yeah. All right. And Ontario. I forgot about the Ontario Airport. All right. That rounds out to your one. That's A&A

10:26the room. It's Katarque sweets. It's Starlux and that's Eva airs. That is solid to your one. Those are the best of the best we agree. We like those. All right. Let's go on to tier two. I'm calling this outstanding business classes. These are excellent. If not exceptional experiences that haven't reached that maybe perfect status or have that like special feeling like these top ones. Kyle, why don't you start with this to your nominated an airline for us? I think Turkish Airlines does business class really well. I think a lot of people would say only on the dreamliner or the newer A350s not on their triple sevens or their Airbus A330s. I haven't flown those older cabins myself. So I can't say that. I've only flown the dreamliner which is great. The best thing about Turkish is the food. I think the catering is some of the best that you're going to get in business class. Again, like I touched on before with both EVA and Qatar. There is not a Turkish first first class cabin. So you're getting the best that Turkish has to offer. And it's, you know, the selection of entrees, the selection of appetizers. It's all

11:30very, very high quality but also very Turkish. It's your trip to Istanbul is really starting, you know, hair of all places. From the moment you step on board and you start getting that lunch service with a dedicated soup and salad course. They just do catering in a dedicated, really high quality way. That very few airlines can match in business class. Yep. You book these with 65,000 Turkish miles and smiles. I believe is what their program is called. What a name. Outstanding. Always smiling on Turkish. I did fly one of their old ones, the old Turkish product that not the sweets. When it's two, three, two and I think the soft product is what we call the soft product which is like the service and just kind of the onboard experience and the dining and the lounges. I think those things made that experience so good even though we weren't in the fancy seats. My wife and I really, really liked Turkish. John, do you have any nominations for outstanding business classes to your? Yeah, outstanding. Same trip as Starbucks but flying

12:30home, I flew China Airlines. Really impressed with that experience. Right when I boarded, sat down, got comfy in my seat. A crew manager came up to me. My name is this. I'm happy to help whatever you need. Just kind of going above and beyond from the start. I mean, first impressions of the cabin is just elegant. It's beautiful color tones, grays and browns and whites and these these accent lamps on every table. China Airlines was great. Food was good. You know, drinks were awesome. Good lounges out of Taipei too. Three China Airlines lounges I could choose from. I actually went into all of them and they were all really nice. I had some time to kill and Taipei. Just a really solid experience. I kind of felt like it aged like a fine wine. It was kind of an older aircraft but just still beautiful. I slept quite a bit on that flight too and I really love China Airlines. Great option to and from Taipei. Just the photos do look elegant. This the first thing that you notice is it just looks it looks fancy. It looks way too fancy for us.

13:31That lamp in the corner of the sea with like the gold finish. Yeah, it just looks really nice. I just want to point out Taiwan has three global carriers and all three of them are at or near the top of the list of our of our business class rankings here which is really really impressive and Taiwan is not on a lot of people's list. I think you know for those who have been which unfortunately is not is not me yet would say it should be but regardless it's a great place to connect through to get to your final destination really anywhere in Asia. Yeah, yeah. Okay, China Airlines is bookable for 62,000 to 73,000 flying blue miles each way. I believe that's still the best way to snag those seats. Kyle, another nomination for outstanding business classes from you. Again, at the risk of sounding like an out of touch privileged male, a lot of business class to Europe and back kind of blends together. They use the same catering. They use the same seat manufacturers. They might be in different colors and with different

14:34finishes but they're all you get more or less the same experience. So I'm putting jet blue men suites on this list. This quickly became my favorite way ever of getting to Europe because it's so different. You're on a narrow body plane. So instead of there being one, two, one with direct aisle access in business class, there's just one row on the left side of the plane and one row on the right in a center aisle. The I think that these seats are great. More importantly, jet blue has done a great job in differentiating the seats with cool features like there's a laptop tray underneath the monitor. So that when you're done working, you just stick it in there and you can forget about it and hopefully not leave it on board. I didn't do that. Let the record show. But most importantly, the food is incredible and it's different. It tastes different. It looks different. It's creative. It's just really fun and has a different vibe that really fits jet blue and that makes those longer trips to Europe and a lifelike seat really, really cool. So I know you both have flown the other jet blue men, the older jet blue men. What kind of

15:38distinguishes the suites from the older version? Just much newer 100% direct aisle access so you never have to worry about getting seated next to a neighbor or having to crawl over them to go use the bathroom. But all the technology is so much newer. I mean, they've got I think 17 or 18 inch HD screens at every seat. You can pair your Bluetooth headphones. There's wireless phone charging at each seat. It's really nice. Awesome. Okay. You can book jet blue men's suites with cash. Sometimes they run sales where you can book these round trip to Europe under $2,000 or 78,000 Qatar obvious each way from the East Coast to Europe as well. You can also book with Etihad guest miles for much more. John, a nomination from you for another outstanding business class. Yeah, I got a good one here. Latam. I had a chance to fly their mini suites to Buenos Aires early December. Went with my wife. Had a great time was actually on their inaugural flight out of Miami.

16:40Really kind of awesome experience to start. So at the gate for an inaugural like they do for other airlines. Kind of a lot of pageantry and there was tango dancing at the gate, which was kind of cool. They had music going and a lot of people. You know, balloons cake, what not a lot of executive. So fun way to start on the aircraft. Just another beautiful cabin. It's their tables. They almost look like soapstone black with white veins. Just gorgeous interior gray and leather seats. Very comfortable. Food was really, really good. I liked it. Kind of simple meats and potatoes and veggies, but I thought it was great. Something that stood out. So we flew it in both directions. Something stood out. The service went a long way on the way home. We had a flight attendant. That was just hilarious. Instead of whiskey this time, it was wine and he kept kept pouring my wife and I too much wine. We weren't even asking for it. But just a funny guy kept bringing out food and wine and overall, you know, beautiful 4K monitors. Just an awesome way to fly to Argentina for sure. Really cool. I'm excited about that one.

17:45To hopefully sample that someday. Book that one with Japan Airlines. Myelage bank points for 60,000 points each way or 85,000 round trip. We love that Japan Airlines math. You can also book these with Virgin or Finair for a little bit more as well. Kyle, a nomination from you. I'm going to do a two-fer here because I don't I think others here may have this on in a lower tier Singapore Airlines on any of their planes and Japan Airlines. Probably on any of their planes, but definitely on their new Airbus A350, which I have not flown. I think once I fly that and I'm dead set on doing it, it's going to go immediately into the best of the best. But even on their triple sevens and their dreamliners, there's so much privacy. There's so much personal space. I think the business class catering, especially their Japanese set menus that you can get flying gel business class is just really good and fun and very Japanese. The service in my

18:47experience has always been great. This is my favorite way to fly to Tokyo and back and whenever I get the chance to book that new A350, I'm on it. John, you have Japan Airlines business class in your next tier down. Talk about it. Why? I agree with everything Kyle said. So I'm a little jaded here with this. So I actually had the A350 booked and a snowstorm moved into New York City and my flight got canceled. So I was put on a triple seven on the next flight. But still, overall great experience. Kyle hit the nail on the head there with with the catering, the food, just awesome, really good stuff. The seat layout threw me off a little bit when I got on there, the 232, just a lot of things going on at once. And you're sitting next to the aisle, but you can't really see out the window and you might have a stranger next to you. And there's an interesting pathway in and out of those window seats. So a little bit different of a seat layout, but I can argue with Japanese carrier. It's also very looking forward to get on that A350 again when I can.

19:50Yeah, absolutely. You want to nominate another one for outstanding business classes? Yeah, we'll give it a shot. Let's do Lufthansa, a legress had the chance to fly this a couple summers ago, kind of shortly after it started operating. Some cool things about a legress, you know, especially the seat. There was a heating and cooling feature on the seat, which I can't say I've seen anywhere else. You could actually feel the seat got pretty warm and it did get pretty cold when you when you adjusted the the system. So that was cool. I sat in row eight, which was one of the the front row seats. And I had it was basically an enclosed suite. I had a closet. I had a spot for my shoes. I had a massive TV. I liked the simple catering. I liked the pretzels and the cheese and and the beef and just kind of it was a really good flight. I didn't monitor all to Munich and overall, you know, new aircraft. I know Swiss is coming out with some similar concepts to a legress here very soon, but I loved a legress. I thought it was really fun. Yep, a legress, you can book for 60 to 90,000 air candidate aeroplan points each way. You can also book with

20:55life miles and United for a little bit more. The same thing for Swiss senses, like you said, which is something we none of us have ever flown. I love Swiss. I would put Swiss's other business class into this category as well. Can I nominate one to to close out here? Outstanding. What does that know? No, I don't know. This isn't your show, man. This is in my review. Finair, John and you and I have both flown this. This A350 with these brand new seats that don't recline, but they're just kind of big open shells and you get lots of pillows so you can kind of create your own recline and there's no, you know, there's not like a big mechanical feature that reclines you or anything. It's just one little leg pop up and it turns into this massive bed. I just flew this with my infant and there was plenty of space for both of us. I really enjoyed this experience again. The service was also really good in the lounge in Helsinki was really, really fine too. I like that a lot. Anything else to add on Finair? I think, yeah, I think you nailed it.

21:56I just when you walk in there, just the shell around the seat is massive and this big blue plush cushioning everywhere you look. I think they're on to something. I believe A&A is looking at adding some of these types of seats and some of their feature interior. So the simpler the better, you know, you just pop up that legrest and it turns into a lifelad seat. I really liked Finair. I thought it was fun. Yep. Really good. You can book those for 63,000 Finair obvious, which you can transfer in from so many airlines each way or 85,000 to 100,000 round trip if you book with Japan Airlines. Okay, let's move on to tier three, which is good, but missing something. That's what I'm calling this tier. So these are the business class seats that are, you know, close to being great, but maybe have one flaw or two. John, I'll go back to you to start this section off. Do you have a nomination for good, but missing something? Yeah, I'll throw Condor into this tier. A lot of excitement, you know, a couple of years ago when you could fly this out of Minneapolis, I'd argue one of the coolest ways to get to Europe from MSP. Condor,

22:58interesting airline, you know, that beach towel concept paint job on the exterior interior is a little bland, but you know, also kind of nice at the same time, just the kind of dark navies and grays with the striped stuff on the top of the seat. Decent force, you know, 4K monitor with Bluetooth activity there, but I just, I don't, I think it just kind of lacked some service, lacked attention to detail. I mean, it was a decent way to get to Frankfurt, but I just, I felt like it was missing something quite sure. Yeah, I think the Condor interiors look really, really good. You can book those for 45 to 55,000 Alaska at most each way, a little bit more if you book with jet blue and Emirates Kyle, a nomination from you for good, but missing something. Going Delta 1 business class and the main thing it's missing is consistency. If you are lucky enough, unfortunately, it's getting easier to make your way onto an Airbus A350 or an Airbus A3 3900 Neo

23:59with Delta 1 suites on board their newest and best seat with a closing door, which I think is a little bit overrated, especially on these planes, because I think it does really come at the expense of additional space, but it's so much better than every of her Delta cabin, especially on the older A330s and the Boeing 767s. If you wind up in one of those, it is a drastically different experience. And if Delta can continue to make it a more consistent and predictable that you're going to get a Delta 1 suite, this could be higher. That said, I do still think the Delta 1 suites are missing something. I think they were cutting edge when they came out in like 2017. 2026, this is what every airline is doing now, and I don't know that these stand out nearly as much as they used to. I also, in my experience, the seats themselves, especially on the Airbus A350, are really, really hard. My wife and I flew this home from Australia a couple of years ago, and about 90 minutes into the flight, which was a 14-hour flight, I was like, man, I'm feeling

25:03this seat on my back. And again, we are in prime complaining about business class territory here, but these are the things that really matter, and why it's important for us to first and foremost, and most importantly, appreciate how cool it is that we get to do this at all, let alone as a part of our jobs. But also, it's important to be discerning and tell people, hey, this is what you need to think about if you have a choice between flying Delta 1 or one of the other airlines that we might rate higher on this list, especially when it comes to the normal cost of flying Delta 1. Which is, typically, if you book with SkyMiles from about 100,000 SkyMiles each way, if you get it during a flash sale, more likely you're going to find Roundtrip pricing, especially when you're going to places like Europe, closer to like 200,000 Roundtrip, we found one South America recently to Chile for 170,000 SkyMiles Roundtrip, but that's kind of your best bet for booking Delta 1. The old Virgin work around is pretty much dead, I would say.

26:04At this point, if we find maybe one a year, it's really tough to do that. John, any nominations from you for good, but missing something? Yeah, another one this might surprise some people. I mean, it surprised me when I flew at Singapore Airlines, and I'm kind of picking up on something Kyle just mentioned here important to be honest about these reviews. I remember we have a review on the site I put together after this, and I was talking to Kyle, and I'm kind of like, is it okay if I kind of talk down on this? There were a lot of things I think they missed on this, so I flew Frankfurt to JFK, and I just felt like I had such high expectations for Singapore Airlines through the flu, the A380, and I just, I went into it thinking, oh my God, this is going to be amazing. Five-star airline, fifth freedom route, it's just going to be a great experience. The food's going to be perfect. Everything else, and I get in there, and it just seemed really dated. It seemed really old. The seats were kind of beat up. The service, I kind of just felt neglected, honestly. They dropped off the food, and they're like, okay, bye, and didn't really come back much

27:10at all. I think one of my favorite parts of flying the A380 was being able to watch the movie The Whale, while flying The Whale, so I can check that off my bucket list. But the food just, I mean, the chicken was cold. It was just, I was kind of like, man, if somebody spent three grand cash on this, I'd walk away thinking, oh man, that was a really tough one to swallow. Yeah, that's good perspective on it. I always think about that when I'm flying business class. Like, someone probably paid five grand to be here, and how is that experience for that person versus me who feels like they're stealing it by using points and miles? I think it's also important to stress, and John, you recognize this. This was your experience, and that's all you can draw on. I've had a great experience flying Singapore, but all it takes is one screw up to really make or break a flight. And the biggest differentiator, like your seat can be the best thing in the world, the newest, the most comfortable. If the service is off, that just that day, or the one flight attendant that you so happen to have, that can really

28:13degrade the entire experience. And that's clearly the case that John had, which, you know, on the one hand, that doesn't mean that Singapore Airlines business class is bad. Certainly doesn't. That's not what John said. But if you paid 90,000 miles, or $5,000, and that's what you get, it's up to the airlines to make sure that every flight is consistent and high quality. And I think generally speaking, Singapore is well known for doing that, but even the best airlines screw up sometimes. Yeah. Okay. I have three quick nominations to close out this good, but missing something category. Number one would be Iberia. I flew the brand new A321 XLR, their newest one. I thought the seat was excellent. Like Kyle said about JetBlueMintsweets. I think the narrow body business class experience when it's all direct aisle access is really, really good. I think the service is really good because there are only 14 seats on that plane. I felt very special. I thought the seat was extremely spacious and very private. And I thought the, you know, the food was fine. The food didn't blow me away. And the lounge in Madrid isn't anything

29:19super luxurious or special there either. And you know, Iberia is running more or less shorter flights. So their business class doesn't need to be extravagant or as John put it like elegant. But I really liked Iberia. The older A330s are something, you know, to be aware of maybe. Those are a very different experience. I know Kyle, you've flown those, but you can book Iberia business class 41,000 to 51,000 Iberia, obvious in off peak 59,000 to 89,000 at peak times for that one. First Kyle, anything to add on Iberia? I think even their older planes are great mainly because the price is right. It's one of the cheapest, most more reliable ways to get across the Atlantic in a live flat sea. I also personally have only had great experiences with the food on board. I know some people say that the both the food and the service can be substandard. This one would be really close for me going up to that second tier of outstanding. Again, mainly because the

30:19price is right. Yeah, I think maybe originating in the U.S. if you get access to the AA flagship lounges, if you're flying from one of those, that would make it a little better. But okay, anyway, another one I have in good, but missing something. Cathay Pacific. I'm not talking about the new Aria Suites, which look so so awesome. I can't wait to sample those. I'm talking about their other business class, which is all direct dial access. It was really good. I thought the service and the soft product, the lounges in Hong Kong were so good. I thought the service on board was incredible. The food was awesome too. I did order the soup and they had to stop serving soup because of some turbulence at one point, and they were apologizing to me profusely. The service was almost too good. They kept coming by and apologized for not bringing my soup. I was like, please don't hand me a bowl of soup. You're doing the right thing. Don't worry about the soup. I'm wearing sweatpants. I'm going to be fine. Bring me a whiskey instead. Yeah, right. But I thought, Cathay, the seats were beat up. It was an old, old product. I think that, you know,

31:21a refresh like the Aria Suites coming is exactly what they need. But Cathay was excellent, except for that. And then have we all flown United Polaris? Between the three of us? You have not? I would nominate United Polaris as one, the anti-delta in that the consistency of the business class product is excellent. I mean, it's essentially cookie cutter on every single one of their planes. You know exactly what you're getting when you book a Polaris seat. I think the seat itself and everything about it is really nice. And I think it falls short in catering for the most part. And that's something you pointed out when you first flew a tile. Yeah, it's been years since I've flown United Polaris. I will never forget getting an appetizer with smoked salmon and watermelon in it. It was, it was edible. I'll give it that. It was just trying too hard and not good enough to really pull off. And I think that's what the knock against a lot of United and their catering has been by all accounts. And I think you would vouch for this because you've flown them just within what the last year or so. The food has come a long way, but still has a ways to go.

32:25I thought it was much, much better last time I flew it. So I enjoy United Polaris, you know, exactly what you are getting. Okay, we have two more smaller tiers to go. One is called almost good. And one is called disappointing, but first we're going to take quick break. This week's episode is brought to you by the Flight Dealer Service that allows us to have flown these 37 different business class seats. It's Drifty Traveler Premium, led by John, our team of more than 10 analysts works around the clock to manually search for the lowest airfare and the best award availability. So we send you only the best deals on the seats that you actually want to fly. And to illustrate just how prolific we've been at Drifty Traveler Premium, I'm going to quiz you guys on the volume of premium deals we've been sending. You guys ready for a little quiz? Sure. Okay. How many total deals did we send in 2025? All flight deals. 1100. 1300. It is 1144. Kyle's going to take that one. That's a lot of deals. We're doing the

33:26prices right rules. Yes, we are. Kyle gets game one. Number two, how many business and first class flight deals did we send our members in 2025? John, you guessed first. 450. Kyle? 395. Kyle takes game two. It was 360 first in business class flight deals. How about a live flat deal every day of the year this year, huh? Can we get to 365 first on that? All right. How many unicorn alerts or mistake fares did we send in 2025? Unicorn alerts are our rarest most special live flat deals. How many unicorns in 2025? I've been overshooting here. Let's go under. Let's go 22. Go in 18. Kyle wins the game. The whole game game three. It's 19. We had 19. Two more questions. How many nerd alerts? Rapidfire. Nerd alerts. 35. 20. It is 31. John wins game four. Nerd alerts are our deals that are especially

34:28nerdy or there's just one seed of availability or you have to fly wholly outside the US. But these are some of our most fun ways to use your points and miles. And finally, how many departure airports in the US and Canada do we search from? 215. 238. It is 227 and I cannot do the mental math to figure out who won. Kyle, you won anyway. You had the first three questions. Good job on the premium quiz. If you want to see any of those flight deals, any of those more than 1100 that we send a year, sign up for our flight dealers today so you can fly all of these epic business classes as well. Use promo code TTPod for $20 off your first year to get you started to that is TTPod all one word for $20 off your first year. All right, back to the show. Okay, we're back almost good is the name of our next tier. This is a spot for business classes that we wish were better. We can't quite get there on probably still worth it, but just missing quite a bit. Not missing one

35:35thing missing quite a bit. Kyle nominated almost good business class. This might be controversial, I think Emirates for two reasons. One, if you're on an A380, it's pretty good. If you're not, it's pretty bad. Way out of date and it is way out of date because two, Emirates is all about first class and that means that you I think you're just going to wind up feeling like you get short drift in Emirates business class compared to some of the other airlines that are higher on this list. This does not mean Emirates business class is bad. It is not. It is still a very, very good experience. The seats are comfortable. The technology and especially the onboard entertainment with like thousands of movies is pretty cool. And if you're on an A380, even in business class, you get to go back to the bar at the back of the upper deck, which is a really, really cool experience. I don't want to knock it. I just I think even if you have inflow in Emirates first class, you feel like

36:40there's something better in front of you. Yeah. You can book Emirates business class with Japan Airlines. This is actually the best way to book it now for 60,000 Japan Airlines miles each way or 85,000 round trip. You can book it with Emirates as well for 108,000 round trip. You can book it with Quantis as well to Dubai. It's going to be a lot more. But that we're talking about the fifth freedom flights to Europe to Milan and Athens, specifically is where you're going to get kind of the best value for Emirates. I'm going to nominate one for the almost good category. Tap, air Portugal. It was my first ever business class flight on the A330 900 Neo. The seat is totally fine. Regular business class seat. I found it very comfortable. I was very impressed with all the business class bells and whistles, including socks. I messaged all my coworkers right away to say I can't believe you get socks when you fly business class. So you're so jaded now. All it took with socks before to impress you. But with the novelty kind of worn off and having flown other

37:43business classes, I think the food I thought was excellent. The wine was especially good. I remember having port on board, which is just such a great way to put yourself to sleep after a good business class meal. But I just thought it was pretty unexceptional service wise. It was kind of one of those things, whereas where's my flight attendant? It's been a few hours. I also flew out of JFK where they don't have any lounge access at all. There's no lounge in that terminal period, so that may have missed it for me too. The best way to book tap is with 50,000 A&A miles. You can also book with life miles or United for a little bit more. John, do you have any nominations for almost good? Yeah, I just want to highlight something there about your socks on Tap Air Portugal. I didn't know the quad god like socks so much. So that's great. Almost good for me. This is another aircraft that I flew with Kyle years ago. JetBlue meant we flew what we do

38:44Boston to Las Vegas years ago. I thought it was pretty cool, but they felt short in some areas, especially the seat. I think the middle partitions, especially if you were sitting next to a stranger, really no privacy there. I just felt like the seats were a little dated from the start. The food was good, but just kind of missing some things overall. Really fun way to go trans continental or Caribbean. But Kyle, do you have any thoughts on mint? Yeah, that's where I'd put this as well. I love JetBlue meant sweets. The ones that you fly on some trans continental routes across the country here in the US, but always over to Europe. That's one of my favorites. This one, it just feels pretty out of date. I think that's enough. Kyle nominated another almost good business class. You know, I really, SAS business class or SAS, I don't know how you're supposed to say it. Who cares? Surprise me. I wasn't expecting to genuinely enjoy it. I thought the service was quite good, but it kind of feels stuck in a different era compared to what every other

39:47airline in the world is doing with business class these days. The seats are quite old. They're pretty comfortable, but they're quite old. There's very, very little privacy. Not only aren't there no doors, which again, I think are overhyped, but the seats themselves are built really, really low. So you can see everybody from your seat, everybody in front of you, and it's not that hard to see everybody behind you too. So I like it. It's a great way to get to Copenhagen if that's your non-stop option, but if there are other non-stops to get you to that corner of Scandinavia, I think you can do better than SAS. Yeah. Another one from you, Kyle. I think you have a couple in this category. So nominated another almost good business class. Er Tahiti Nui. My wife and I flew this from LA to Tahiti a couple of years ago as a part of a bigger trip from the United States to Bora Bora, New Zealand, Australia, and then home. And it is a good way to get non-stop to paradise. It's actually really fun on board. It has that Tahitian vibe from the catering to the service.

40:53Everybody on board is wearing floral shirts, all the staff. It's really, really fun, but it is an outdated business class cabin. So I think it's a good way to get to Tahiti. If that's what you can do, you can book this for I think 60,000 Alaska miles each way and finding awards space to do that is not the hardest thing in the world, but you can also, you can fly Air France business class on these same routes. You can fly United Polaris on these same routes. I think both those would be a much better experience in large part because it's too, too, too in business class, which is fine for, you know, if you're traveling with a companion to Tahiti. I don't think there's a lot of business men that are traveling to Tahiti for a meeting in Bora, Bora, or Maria, but it just, it felt pretty out of date. Yeah, 60,000 Alaska miles each way. Is that still the pricing on that one? I believe it does. So pretty good deal as well. Kyle, trying to hurt my feelings here, I'm hoping to fly Airlingus to Europe soon. Why does Airlingus on your almost good tier? I really liked Airlingus. So I don't want to steer people away from it.

41:59I think Airlingus could well be higher on this list if only because there are so many non-stop options to get you to Dublin. I think they fly to almost 20 US and Canadian cities, but their business class is again, just from a different era. There are a lot of seats on board where you're not going to have direct aisle access. You're going to have to step over either your companion or a complete stranger in order to use the business class lavatory if you're in one of the seats along the window. So I think you just need to know what you're getting into with this flight. I could push this a little bit higher, but I think this is a good spot for it. Yeah, I would agree. 45,000 to 70,000 Alaska at most. You can get that 45,000 rate if you book a connection to Europe when you book with Alaska at most. So when you book that short connection to London, for instance, it goes from 55,000 for the non-stop to 45,000 to add the connection, which is what I'm hoping to do any day now when my space opens up. All right, we have a little bit of disagreement on this one.

43:03So let's talk about Virgin business class, which Kyle has in this category of almost good, and John has in disappointing. So Kyle, I'll let you go first on this one. I think Virgin is really fun. The crews are very cheeky British, which I really like. I was expecting to like the, they're a 330, 900 NEO. The ones with sweets again with doors. Much more than I did, but this is the quintessential example of doors can really be a crutch. And I think that this business class cabin shouldn't have had them because, you know, as I was going to sleep on this flight to London, I was like, man, I feel really cramped inside of the seat. And a couple of, not even a year later, my wife and I flew their A350 business class, which I liked a lot more. Even though the seat setup is less modern, a little bit goofy, it was just a better experience. So I could really go either way with this one. But I'm curious why John would have this on the disappointing list. I felt, I felt like the seats were just kind of

44:10really bulky. I felt like there was just a lot of space wasted. I flew the A350, JFK to London. I just, I had higher expectations. I thought it'd be a little more polished, a little more fun, and interesting you say about the flight attendants being cheeky. I guess maybe I took it the wrong way. I was expecting better service. They're kind of like, here you go, mate. See you. So I mean, it was, I flew with them with my wife out of JFK. My favorite part of this experience was the Delta One Lounge in JFK and, you know, have dining served to you and massage, everything else. A great addition to flying Virgin Atlantic to London. Got a little banged up, as Gunner would say. But I just, I don't know, it's kind of, it's such a short flight. And I had higher expectations and you get on there. And it's kind of like, everything's pink and purple, and I don't know where to look. And it was kind of just like, I don't know, I thought it'd be a lot better. And it was just really quick. And I felt like the service was rushed and the food

45:10was subpar. I was, I hope I, I thought I'd get more. I mean, the price was right, though. So very, very few Virgin miles to, to push out to, to get that flight. You can also miss really bad on aircraft type with Virgin Atlantic. They have that really funky dreamliner business class set up where everyone's feet are in the aisles together. And you can see everyone's feet that, the Tootsie's flight, as I like to call it. Weird one. And really, really narrow seats too. People, people refer to this as like a coffin class. Yeah. So yeah, the A350, my personal ranking would be A350, A330 Neo. And then the dreamliners and their A330s are both really old with those really old, old business class seats that you'll probably want to avoid. You can book Virgin Atlantic business class to London or the UK for 29 from 29,000 Virgin Atlantic points each way up to like 35,000 Virgin Atlantic points each way, but they dynamically priced those so it could be much higher. When you look, if you decide to do that, Kyle, any other disappointing business classes that

46:15you'd like to nominate? You know, John, it raved about how great the new Lufthansa like receipts are. Those are still on fairly few Lufthansa routes, at least two in from the United States. And most of the rest of their fleet is real old. Two, two, two in business class. I was lucky enough that when I flew this, I didn't have a neighbor next to me had that happen. They would have been, I would have, this would have been even further than just disappointing. I, I locked out on that one, but everything, including, you know, the catering and the service just kind of felt really whole home compared to basically everything else that we've talked about so far. There was just really not a whole lot that was memorable about it. I wrote a review and I took this flight years ago now and I think the title of it was fine, but forgettable. And so life, let's see, it's pretty comfortable. I'm never going to complain about that, but you can do so much better than, you know, some of the business class that you find on their 747s, on their dreamliners, on their triple

47:15sevens, there's, there's better out there. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, one last nomination for me in the disappointing category is Icelandair, saga, business class, which is quote, business class. It is business class in name only. These are just first class recliners. They're, I'll give them a little extra credit than that. They do have like the legrests and things like that, but these are not lifelike seats. They're not sweets. They're nothing close to it. It's, you know, 2-2 across the front of their narrow bodies and it's 2-1-2 on their 767s with that kind of island seat in the middle, which is funny. The funniest seat ever, especially during boarding when you have people walking by you on both sides. I think the soft product on this was actually really good. I thought the service was awesome. They have a gin tasting menu that can get you banged up in a hurry if you're not careful. But it's, I thought everything about Icelandair, saga was really nice. I think their saga lounge in Iceland is excellent too, but other than that, this is just not business class. So I, this is why it's in my disappointing category. I think if you went into it not expecting

48:17business class, but premium economy, you would be thrilled. For sure. I think that's a through line for everything that you're talking, that we're talking about here is that expectations are everything. And I think that's kind of what we're trying to help people with is set some expectations about what's really the best and what might, you might need to adjust your expectations to going into. Sorry, Kyle. I always thought you were team Iceland gunner stall, so kind of surprised me with that one. I'm definitely team Iceland. And you know what, the nice part is that Icelandair does have saga on almost all of its flights. So you'll connect in Reykjavik, and then if you're connecting on to Scandinavia or down into Europe, you're going to be on saga for all the legs of the flight. Some of their short connections like the Greenland and the Faroe Islands flights do not have it, but those are run by subsidiary airlines. But I like Icelandair saga. It's just decidedly not business class. So it comes into our last category there. Really quickly, if you are punching your steering wheel because we didn't mention your favorite business class, we put together a little list of airlines that we have not, our business classes, we have not flown. That includes American Airlines somehow. None of us have ever flown American

49:21business class. Hawaiian first class, which I'm actually going to tick off next month. Of course, our coworker Peter has flown both of these before, so you can look at the reviews on our website, if you want to check those out. The new Japan Airlines business class, I think we all agree, it would be number one with a bullet on our business class bucket list. Some of the other Emirates business classes, the new Cathay Arias sweets. We haven't flown Swiss senses, but Laftonza Legris is essentially the same thing, so we'd just be a switching of the kind of soft product, the service there. Etihad business class, we have not flown. Zippair's lifelad seats, which I wouldn't actually call a business class. And then some European carriers, like British Airways, we have not flown their business class. Air Serbia, lot Polish, Discover, Edelweiss, Royal Air Merak, not a European, but Transylane. Close. Close. Any others that we miss that we have not flown, if people out there are asking why we missed their favorite. I don't think anybody is listening

50:22to this and saying, these guys haven't flown enough business class. We just talked for like 55 minutes about all the business class we've flown. That's true. Okay, so just a quick recap. The best of the best here, we had A&A, the room, we had Qatar, Q-sweets, we had Starlux, and we had Eva Air. In outstanding business classes, we had Fin Air, Swiss, China Airlines, Lufthansa, Olegris, Latam, Turkish, JetBlueMint, Suits, Japan Airlines, although there's some disagreement on that, and Singapore Airlines, also just an agreement there. In the good, but missing something, we had Cafe Pacific, United Polaris, Iberia, Singapore, Condor, and Delta 1. And then in almost good, we had TAP, the old JetBlueMint, Air Tahiti, Nui, SAS, Emirates, Virgin, and Air Linguists, and finally, in disappointing, we had Virgin Atlantic, Iceland Air, and non-Alegris, Lufthansa. How do we feel about the list? I feel like it's a good list. I learned a lot here from

51:24both of you that I didn't know before. I think Kyle's point about first class versus a business class, just the service discrepancy. It's a really interesting take, and I know you've flown both cabins on some of these aircraft before, too, Kyle. I think if you want a really, really great business class experience, one of the best things that you can do is fly an airline that doesn't offer first class, because then you know you're getting the best, and they generally do more, they give you more, they give you more amenities, they do more for dining than they do for airlines, like A&A and Japan Airlines and the Emirates that do offer a dedicated first class cabin, because they have to. Yeah. Curious listeners, how you think we did on this? What airlines did we have to hide? What seats were too low? We'd love to hear from you. Hit us up at podcast at thriftytraveler.com, and we might feature your feedback on next week's show. Give us your tears, too, and if someone can make us a cool graphic, that would be awesome as well. It's on the spot, and I'm putting you guys on the spot. Why? Because that's what I decided. Are you ready?

52:25Okay, a few weeks ago, we had a listener write-in with the initials game. Have you flown to the airport that your initials are? Just to recap, mine was Greensboro, GSO, Kyle's KGP is Cogollum in Siberia, Russia. John, we looked yours up. Your middle name is BANTS with a B. John BANTS, shall better? That's JBS. Do you know what JBS Airport is? I can't say I do. Oh, it's a doozy. It is São Borja Airport, right on the Argentina, Brazil border, on the Uruguay River, in the state of Rio Grande do Sul. It is remote. There's no commercial service there. It is one of the most remote air strips I've ever seen, and that is your initials airport, John, but that's not around the spot. We're talking about business classes today, but I seem to recall that you both once shared a very intimate first-class flight together. We'll

53:28show the picture on our YouTube. It's a must-see. Can you tell me and the listener the story of this particular adventure? This was in the before-gunner era of Thrifty Traveler, so I don't know if I know the story in totality. Please tell me. This is really core Thrifty Traveler lore. So, John and I took a trip around the world in 2019. In six days, we flew from Dallas to Doha to Oman, back to Doha to Guangzhou, China, and then we split up, and John went down to Singapore before making his way home. I went to Japan and flew Japan Airlines first-class home, but from Doha to Guangzhou, we flew Qatar Airways first-class. We were the only two passengers, so among other shenanigans that we got up to, including, I think we ended up going through at least three if not the start of a fourth bottle of Krug champagne. On an eight-hour flight,

54:31we had a face-to-face candle-like caviar dinner, which was one of the fun- it was even funny at the time in looking back at the photos. It's even funnier. It was just, I mean, so this was like, I mean, this was right after my first time in business class, flying Q-sweets from Dallas, so then we get up there in the first class, like Kyle said, the cabin was empty and that the flight attendant, she's like, so these are your sleeping beds. These are your dining beds. We could just pick and choose whatever we wanted in the cabin, but I mean, yeah, Kyle mentioned it all. It was super fun sitting there and having a candle-like dinner and drinking too much of everything, and then walk back to the bar on Qatar. It was quite the flight, for sure. Nothing like getting mangled on an eight-hour flight and landing in China and then having to just go transit through China to get yourself to where you need to go. I'm sure that was a very long day after that flight, but it looked really fun, and I am very jealous that you two got that moment together, and I wasn't there. Maybe someday. One day if you're lucky. I think when we split up, I kind of looked at Kyle,

55:33like, am I ever going to see you? It looks like, bye, man. See you. Good someday. Good luck, maybe. I'm glad we got to let the listener in on that piece of Thrifty Traveler lore. That was a special, special moment. Thank you all so much for listening to The Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars in your platform of choice and like and subscribe to the show on YouTube. Send this episode to someone you know who has a very strict business class ranking that we need to blow up for them. If you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast at ThriftyTraveler.com. We'd love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team. This episode was produced by your favorite host, a guy who's looking to get banged up on a Hawaiian Airlines first class flight this spring, Gunner Olsen. It was produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and edited by Kyle Thomas. Our theme music is by Benjamin T. So, see you guys next time. See ya.