TCF Ep. 656 - Stephanie Pommez

0:00Some photographers document the world as it is. Others create a space where the world feels reimagined, tender, layered, and filled with possibility. Stephanie Palmes' work lives in that space. Her portraits are intimate and theatrical at once. Looted in collaboration, they often center young people navigating identity, vulnerability, and transformation. Whether photographed in quiet interiors, or carefully constructed environments, or subjects feel present, not posed for spectacle, but invited into a shared act of storytelling. Over the course of years, Stephanie has built bodies of work that blur the line between reality and imagination. Their images are cinematic without losing authenticity. They are gentle without being fragile.

1:02They ask us to reconsider how we see youth, neurodivergence, difference, and belonging. This is IbarianX, and welcome back to the Candid Frame. Well, Stephanie, welcome to the show. It's really great to have you. Your project is really beautiful and informative in many ways, but it's been a project that you've been working on for a very long time. In doing my research, the people here, and if you can pronounce the name of the other people that live along the Amazon, because I think it's a driven Yeros or something like that, okay. Which means that, yeah. Which means that, yeah. Okay, your Portuguese is going to be better than my English since I've had time, but tell me about your first sort of awareness of these people when you were growing up. What did you hear about them, even way before you decided to become a photographer and document their line?

2:03Inchanted ones. So I guess, like I mentioned, I grew up in Brazil. I'm not originally from Brazil, so my parents are French, and then they moved to Canada. I was born in Canada in Montreal, and then they moved to Brazil. And then when we got to Brazil, I did a different school system, like I went to the Brazilian school, then I went to the French school, then I did both at one point, and we kind of moved around a lot, and then eventually to international school, but anyway, but you wouldn't hear about much about the Hibadiens, and you definitely would not hear about women. So I was curious to know who are the women, and how do they live, and what do they believe in, and how can I discover that? And the interest came from, I think, I was always interested in trying to understand

3:03different forms of, try to understand different forms of life, different approaches to life, and what comes out of that, different meanings that come out of that. So anyway, so initially I was like, okay, I want to know who the Hibadiens women are, but it was very wide as a topic, and then eventually it kind of narrowed down to the midwives. So the thread of the story that eventually led to the enchanted worlds was to understand who are the midwives, the traditional midwives, and what is their role, and that was the beginning of it. In the United States, the Native American people, because of colonization and just being largely shifted from their native lines into reservations and other things like that, there was sort of an experience where their natural historical way of life was basically eliminated in Brazil

4:08along the Amazon River. You have people who are still living the way that ancestors did for hundreds of years. And so there isn't that disconnect that exists here in the United States. When you're coming up and even now, how are people who live in more urban centers sort of look at these people, or what are their attitudes towards them? But then the other part of it was, I didn't want to romanticize it either, right? The reason why the logistics and the people, the person that's going to come with you and then going back. And then there's also one of the reasons why women with two traditional midwives is first of all, so it's hard to get to a clinic. And then also, when you do have access to a clinic, there is oftentimes a cultural gap between the doctor or the nurse and the woman who's there to give birth. And with the midwives, too, if they choose to accompany a woman there, there's definitely

5:11a gap and misconception of what they're doing, and sometimes there is. It happens in the United States, but I think the modern medicine, if I'm like a better word, doesn't necessarily. It doesn't necessarily incorporate cultural sensitivities in terms of the training. They provide doctors and nurses and all the people that they train. And it seems like that lack of that really probably diswades a lot of young women to seek out the services because of how they may feel that they are going to be understood or treated. Are the women who serve as these midwives? Is it a generational thing? A mother teaches a daughter who, in turn, teaches her daughter, or how do people come to fulfill those roles in their respective communities? I'm thinking of a specific midwife when I'm saying that, Dona Dahlka, but she would bring her granddaughter with her and just teach her and say, OK, when you're touching

6:16this way, what do you feel? And where's the baby? And I'm thinking of another one, Dona Dahlka's own. Like her mom was also a midwife, right? But then a lot of stories are about women who find themselves in a situation where they are alone and maybe there's, you know, the younger daughter who's there or maybe there's the neighbor or another woman in the house. And then it kind of begins by necessity. But what I do find beautiful is that it may start that way, but they always go back to describing it as Dona Dahlka, which means they could gift of God and then they continue that and they continue that tradition. Looking at the work and reading about it, it was really interesting to get a much greater sense of their roles, because it's not just that they show up on the day of the birth.

7:18They're there, you know, helping provide prenatal care, postnatal care, serving as counselors. I mean, they're doing a lot more than just helping the woman give birth on that day. And also give advice. Yeah. You know, you've been working on this project for a while and access to some of those communities was not easy. It was not like you could just drive up to their communities and start making photographs. But how did you gain entry to the community and what, you know, what was involved in gaining their trust to make this collaboration happen? You mentioned earlier about not wanting to romanticize this. And when you're an outsider coming into a community like this, one of the things in order to be able to prevent doing that is a certain degree of self-self-awareness. And sometimes that that inherent bias that you may have is not something that's really conscious, right? And especially since you're working on this project a long term, there were probably

8:22sort of opportunities to sort of recognize your own blind spots and then correct for them. Can you talk a little bit about that process? I think in general, I try to be non-judgmental and open-minded and kind of go with the flow of how things show up without like a preconceived idea. I try as much as possible. But I think, of course, you know, you are the product of, you know, your culture where you grew up and all that stuff, I don't think the best way to answer that is I didn't realize when I went in how crucial the role was in maintaining. I did not see them as guardian of life and culture when I went in.

9:23I saw them as... It's okay. Yeah, because it's interesting because the first iteration of this project was probably more sort of straightforward documentary. But in this iteration, when they enchanted ones, you incorporated a lot of the mythology that is part of that storytelling, that is part of that... That is part of the historical background of a people. Tell me about incorporating that and how you came to approach it in the way that you did in the book. And so I started telling her about, you know, the different stories and so the enchanted ones are the incantados and incantados are beings that are, that live, you know, in the forest or underwater and they're animals that can morph into human shape and interact with people in either benevolent or malevolent way, you know, they're not good or bad, they just are and sometimes their world will blur with our real world, you know, so like the imaginary

10:28and the real kind of become one single experience. And but they're very revealing of a lot of things and one thing I thought was really beautiful about myths is that, especially stories that are, you know, shared orally, is that they go to generations, right, of like the same story or the same characters with different, different versions of that story or experience. So for instance, the Boltoom is, you know, he's a, he's a native dolphin of the region and he's an extremely known character. He, you know, he will turn into the shape of a man, of a very handsome man and seduce women and, you know, and either bring them back to, you know, the bottom of the enchanted world or, or, you know, leave them behind pregnant or, you know, so there are, sometimes it can be more over romantic story, oftentimes more on a violent side, but he's a very known character and I've, I've yet to meet someone who does not have either themselves

11:32and encounter with a Bolto or no of someone who does, right? So what I think is really, you know, learning about the Bolto, it was really fascinating how, how he is used to sort of diffuse tensions that could arise because of unintended pregnancies, you know, circumstances, you know, are myriad of, but that could create tensions within not just a family group, but within the whole community and that the existence of the Bolto and the story of the Bolto is a way that those tensions can be diffused even now. You know, there's, you know, violence within the family or within that community or with neighbors and, and the reality is that there's not going to be accountability for that. And those were not stories of Bolto, but those were stories where I was there and I could see what had happened and I could see what would come out of it, right, which is how do

12:38you move on, right? And what are your options and then how do you move forward? And it's true that the Bolto can does certainly become a way to kind of diffuse, you know, these tensions or violence that can happen and allow for everyone including, you know, the woman to move on. It's true that there are other stories of incontardous, which can explain and allow for some way to move forward, you know, when they hear stories of, oh, you know, she was pregnant for a year from a Bolto and then the Tukushi, which is another form of dolphin, was born and the midwife had to release it into the water and, and let it go, bless it and let it go, right, which also stories that bring some relief to loss, you know, I can think

13:46of many other stories that are like that, you know, of giving birth to, you know, a refugee, a combat energy is a serpent from the river who can also seduce, right? And sometimes women can give birth to a snake, right? And then sort of again, like how do you, what does that mean, you know, well, it means you're trying to deal with a situation that you may not have the words to explain what happened, but you're trying to bring relief. So the Bolto definitely plays that role, as do a lot of the enchanted beings, and they also explain sometimes it's related to birth, sometimes it's not related to birth, sometimes it's related to, you know, someone, you know, like mentally, someone in a very difficult position who decides to let go of life, right, and going to the river and not come back, you know, and leave to the enchanted world, or so there's definitely that side of it.

14:57If you're ready to take your photography to a deeper, more personal level, while exploring one of the most visually rich places in the world, I invite you to join me for my upcoming spring, 2026 workshop in Japan. I'll be leading a small group through the Bechie Creative's immersive program designed to challenge and inspire photographers who want more than just postcard images. You can learn more and reserve your spot by visiting nebechiecreative.com. I'm also partnering with F8 photographic workshops for additional international experiences, including a return to Vietnam. These workshops go beyond technique they're about developing your vision, strengthening your voice, and making photographs that are deeply personal and meaningful. For more details visit f8phographicworkshops.com. You produce this project on film as opposed to using digital, why that choice and what challenges did you face, shooting where you were, using that kind of gear, you know, when

16:02you recognize that you wanted to incorporate the idea of the incandatos into the project, how did that involve sort of in terms of your approach, both in terms of how and what you were shooting, but then later on when you were designing the book, how you were going to express that on paper. The book can serve as sort of more than just a document, but can be also what's the word I'm looking for, experiential, you know, where even the people come away with a feeling rather than just an observation, and I think that that's what you're striving for with either you, those ever overlays in the book. In the entirety of the book exists, you know, with that in mind. So the sequence of the story begins with what this, the book begins with a short text that kind of allows for, you know, a shift in your mindset, so that now you're on a river,

17:02there's the paddling of the canoe, you're with Donazinho, that one of the midwives, you're going in, you got up there, which is a tribute, you know, a little smaller river, and then you're there, and then stories begin, and then, you know, the opening page is an overlay of a closed eye over a river, and the story is contained between that image, which kind of, you know, brings you to the idea of, oh, this is sort of a dream, or is it an inner journey, or what is it? And the last image, which is the continuation of the river, back to when the blurring of worlds has stopped, and in between that is the story is contained, and it's a story, it's not documentary work, it's based off as the material is documentary photography, but it's worked differently, in terms of its sequence, in terms of, you know, there are also some silk sheets that, you know, are placed next to an image of the midwife doing

18:04a blessing over a child, just stepping over a child in an entrance way, and so it's one side of her, and then the other side, and in between the silk sheets that talk about, you know, the ephemeral, the, you know, things that are sort of flowing through, and the same is the role of the light through, it's like, it's almost like a character of its own, they came to visit me, it's the beginning of, you know, of the book, and, you know, there's this light that keeps traveling through all these different places, right? And, and then the cover also plays a role, so even the shape of the book, it's not, it's not rectangular, it's a square, and, or square-ish, which indicates, like, okay, well, this, you know, you think of documentary work, you'll think more of a rectangular shape, this is not it, this is square, so it's, you know, more like, like a, like a, like a story of its own, like another world, something different, and then the back of it is this organic, you know, chocolate-colored texture that has a, you know, a plant-based feel to it, but

19:12also would feel to it, and it's kind of, you know, the front is inside a, a house, and with the little girl and the, and the monkey on her lap, that's very restful, and it's sort of like, okay, like these worlds will merge now, the story is being told within this house, which is oftentimes how, sorry, they're shared, you know, you're having, you're kind of all sitting around on the floor, and you're having coffee and talking, and sharing stories, and it begins there, and then it is contained within the river images that I mentioned, and then when you first open it, the, the sort of powder-pink color of it is also a reference to, you know, fables and stories, and, but it's also a reference to the boat, which is the pink dolphin, right? And so the entirety of it is meant as in, this is a small, this is a, this is a poem, or this is a, this is a, this is a fable that you, that is contained

20:13within these pages, within this book, and the entirety of it is the story. Yeah, you mentioned earlier that you was your kind of curiosity that led you to, you know, these people into these midwives, and coming to understand the way that they approach birth, and pregnancy, and death, and mythology. But, you know, you're, you're a person that lives in, you know, a first world country, right, who has a very distinctly distinctly different attitudes throughout the very same things. How has that, how has that, the work that you've done sort of opened your eyes to some of the assumptions that we make ourselves about, the very same things, things that we just kind of might have accepted as, well, that's just the way it is. But when you have the perspective of going into an entirely different world and a different community, it makes you realize that, oh, that's not the way it is everywhere. You know, interacting with life and those around you, you know, how do

21:15you bring these elements into your life in a way that's going to enrich the way you see the world and see meaning and understand that there are different meanings out there and multiple truths that can actually coexist and actually coexist. And, you know, and that's kind of the beauty. So for me, I see this project as that, you know, whether it's the enchanted world that brings a way of looking at a community and how they interact with their environment and how it brings them together or allows for, you know, life to continue, like that applies to many, many different groups, right? And so I think what's changed to what I'm trying to think, like, you know, it's funny, like I remember. So when you're traveling through the rivers, right? So a lot of times it's just like this sort of monotonous rhythmic, you know, boat journey where, you know, there's like the engine, that's sort of repetitive,

22:19too, too, you know, and then you're looking at the water and it's very similar throughout. And you don't see that much into the forest because there's like, you know, a curtain of trees and branches and you don't see much that's going on inside. So it's very repetitive. But then, you know, when you start bringing new elements into the way that come from stories that are shared or believe that are shared, then it starts transforming the way you look at the landscape, right? So all of a sudden you start looking at the landscape and you're like, oh, wow, actually, this river at this point is the perfect mirror of, you know, the sky above and the forest around it. And it's really hard to see where that horizon line is. And I can see how things can blur very easily between worlds, right? And maybe had I not been listening to these stories, I wouldn't have seen that. But how incredible to be able to start seeing the world that way and to start seeing, you know, different explanations and ways of being through that angle as well. The same way that, you know,

23:20if you spoke to, you know, I don't know, different people who, you know, live by the sea. And when you look at the ocean, you see, oh, it's a big wave. It's a small wave. But for that person, there are, you know, hundreds of ways to interpret that wave, right? And so how incredible to all of a sudden look at the same body of water so differently, because now you know that there are a hundred different ways of looking at that wave and they have different meanings. They carry different meanings. And I think I've always been in search of that. When I was, I lived in Hong Kong for about five years. And when I was there, I had, so I was doing more like street photography. But on the side, I had a startup. And the purpose of the startup was a little bit along the same line of thinking, which was at first, you know, I was documenting, documenting and trying to retell stories of different groups or ways of being. And then all of a sudden, I was like, well, okay, how do we move away from that to direct experience with people so that you have a deeper knowledge of a place

24:29and of a culture and what it holds so that those new elements in your life can change how you shape your understanding of the map of the world. And yeah, so I think there's been like a constant thread throughout my life. And the intended were, the intended ones, another way to talk about that through, through myths and through the, the intangible, you know, the femoral. You know, one of the, I talked to so many people who work on a lot of personal projects, because they can't wait for some publication to say, hey, this is a great story I want you to work on. It's often self-initiated as far as the case with, with this particular project. But the logistics of making it happen, like as you said earlier, you know, you're working as a, you know, as a professional photographer here in the States, and you're earning enough money to be able to pay for the travel and everything that you need in order to sort of make it happen.

25:32Talk to me about that, you know, the logistics in terms of being able to do this, especially over, over period of years. What was I missing? And so, you know, going back allows you, that distance allows you to go back and say, oh, you know, I really haven't spoken about this, you know, like, for instance, one thing, I think, is very beautiful. They're small details, but they're details that stay with you, and you're like, oh, but I don't find that in the work that I've done, you know, like, you know, there's such a, like, there's such a sense of dignity and elegance in their movements, for instance, you know, in the way they're always wearing skirts, but when they're sitting on the floor or when they're sitting in the canoe, they kind of could like to the side, and it's just so much viewed in that little small gesture, or in their eyes, or in how when they come and arrive to a house, you know, you'll have the people from that house kiss the back of their hand and say, bang, sound like, you know, bless, bless me. And, you know, this sort of respect, and is that coming across and what I'm doing? I don't know, like, maybe I need to go back and have that in the back of my mind, because I noticed it stayed with me, but maybe I didn't, it's not here,

26:37right? It's not in what I've produced. And so, that distance actually can be to your benefit, right? I think also, you kind of inform yourself and speaking to, I think sometimes they're kind of in your head a lot as a photographer, and so it's nice to be able to get away and also talk to the people and also inform yourself in terms of, you know, what you're doing and, you know, you notice something, maybe you dig deeper into that before going back so that you have a better understanding of it, because you didn't know what you didn't know before and how you do. So, I think, you know, on one hand, obviously, you're a little bit of a frustration, but I think at the same time, if it's something that you're pursuing, then there's the benefit of being able to grow along that time as well. As you're working on the project, especially when you start, you know, calling and editing and then making choices in terms of internal images and then later on,

27:39eventually, as you put putting it together as a body of work, you often need feedback from people. Who did you come to sort of rely on in terms of being able to use as a sounding board to gauge where you're succeeding and where you needed additional work on? And how do you find those people? And what has been the reaction of the communities to the work when you've gone back and shown them? You know, with our cell phones, we get very spoiled in terms of being able to document our families and family life. And there, that's not a readily available thing. So, a portrait like that could be very significant. Yeah. Well, my last question that I ask each guest is, I ask them to recommend another photographer for a listener to discover and explore on their own and it can be anyone. Someone you've long admired or someone you've recently discovered. So, who would that one photographer be and why? Go ahead. And she did this incredible book. I think I want to say 2015 was when it was published, but I'm not 100% sure. But around that time, and it's called

28:44Survivors, and it's a book really beautiful. And it's about, you know, the Armenian genocide and portraits of, you know, the survivors as well as witnessing and, you know, their stories of, you know, what they took with them or left behind, you know, and, and so I think it's a really important book and piece of document, especially given, you know, Nagorno-Karaba of late, and it's really beautiful. And she also has this group. They're called four plus documentary photography, and they have, you know, meetings of different photographers that do documentary photographers that work on current issues. So definitely her. And then someone I met at Paris Photo recently, his name is Luis Sergio, and he just published a book. He's from, he's from

29:46he's Peruvian, but I think he's also Chilean. And he published a book called The Puma Pucci, and it's about the Mapuche people in Chile, and it's really beautiful, truly like incredible work, and I loved the way it was edited as well, because there's a linearity to it, but then there's unexpected like, uh, punctuations to the, to the sequence of images, and he's just a great guy all around. So definitely looking to his work. It's, it's very beautiful. Well, thank you for that, and thank you for your time and sharing your work with us. It's really appreciated. Thanks to Stephanie for sharing your insight and our thoughtful approach to portraiture. You can explore more of our work by visiting StephaniePomas.com, and discover the projects that continue to expand the language of contemporary portrait photography. And if you're a fan of

30:46the Candid Frame, please leave a review on whatever podcast app you use to listen to podcasts, and remember to use the hashtag Be Candid Frame. You can support the show financially through Patreon, or make a one-time contribution through buymeacoffee.com forward slash The Candid Frame. Also be sure to subscribe to our newsletter on Substack for behind-the-scenes reflections, workshop updates, and access to our growing community of photographers. Our audio engineer is Martin Taylor, who you can find at theotherMartinTaylor.com, the show's senior producer, Cynthia Parker, and this is IbodyNX, and this is The Candid Frame.