Sts. Perpetua & Felicity

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustan Institute

on a possible helping Catholics understand, live and share their faith.

Hello everyone and welcome to Catholic Saints. My name is Taylor Kemp. I'm the director of Formed and with me is Dr. Elizabeth Klein.

It's great to have you.

Thanks for having me.

Continuing to fill out our incredible Saints calendar. Today we are talking about Saints Perpetua and Felicity.

Dr. Klein, who are these Saints?

So Saints Perpetua and Felicity are martyrs. They were martyred around the year 202.

Very?

They are from Roman North Africa. So they were martyred in this ancient city of Carthage, which is now in ruins, but is in modern day Tunisia.

And I just thought I would say a little bit about North African Christianity in the early church. I think a lot of people don't know about it.

But in fact, almost all of our most famous early Christian writers in the West come from North Africa.

Augustan.

So Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustan. This is one of the most famous early Christian texts where it describes the Passion of Profession.

Why is this such a hub of major Christian figures?

Who knows?

Christiani's vibrant there.

Was it like, was he at Rome to write things?

Was it education?

I mean, Carthage is a very wealthy, important city.

Okay.

So, you know, in Roman history, Carthage is the sort of big enemy of Rome.

The Punic Wars are fought against Carthage.

Okay.

It was a very wealthy trade city and sort of had its own culture.

And so I mean, some of it may just be the circumstances of history.

It's hard to know.

But we actually don't have very much writing in the early period from Rome.

We have a lot more from North Africa.

So, yeah.

So these saints are, then of course, very, very famous.

They're named in the Roman canon.

So the Long Prayer Mass, when they name all the saints, you get professional publicity.

We have many homilies Augustan, for example, Prachion, their feast day.

And so, yeah.

So they were, they were very well-known.

And the reason that they were so well-known is because of this beautiful text called the Passion of Saint Profession.

We don't know who wrote it.

Some people think Tertullian wrote it.

But I just think it's like he's the only other North African.

He was writing a lot of stuff.

He was writing a lot of stuff.

He's around at the time.

You know, it's not a big Christian community.

So he could have theoretically written it.

But we don't know who wrote it.

But it's pretty much unique among early Christian documents because it actually,

at least purportedly, contains writings of Prachion herself.

So she wrote, like they call it the prison diary.

So they, whoever compiled the passions as, okay, now you're going to hear Prachion's own words.

And we have a whole section that's purportedly written by her.

And then we also have something purportedly either written or conveyed by one of the other martyrs,

satirists, who's martyred with them.

So obviously, there's lots of debate whether or not she actually wrote it or, you know,

whether or not the editor of the whole text has, you know, maybe changed parts of it or whatever,

or whether or not a woman would be about educated enough to actually write it and all these things.

I mean, I don't think there's any reason to be like hyper suspicious of it,

especially because it is so weird.

Like, it wouldn't, doesn't seem like it'd be easy to fake something that's so unusual.

So yeah, I mean, it's certainly possible, like writing in the ancient world obviously is usually dictation.

So whether or not somebody changed it after or edited it,

what it possibly, quite possibly they did, but I think it's very realistic that she actually,

it's actually the martyr's own words.

And this is very unusual.

Usually early Christian martyrdom stories are very short usually.

They're also very similar in a lot of times.

Quite formulaic.

And whether or not that formula is because it's kind of like a martyr story and everyone expects it to unfold in a certain way,

or whether or not it partially is formulaic because Roman court proceedings are formulaic or kind of,

there's also a lot of people think that there was actually some kind of not formal training would be exaggerated,

but like you had to prepare yourself to be able to make a good confession when you're under duress.

Right?

So a lot of the martyrs, yeah, they worry about they say making a good confession.

And so whether or not there was kind of like this is what you say.

So like you're panicking, it's stressful.

This is what you say.

That actually, which makes sense.

And often, yeah, and often it does have some of it has sounds kind of like the creed.

Yeah, which also makes sense.

Which makes sense.

Which makes sense.

The essentials of the faith.

It does strike some problems with when Christ does do not worry about what you're going to say.

For the Holy Heroes we hear about.

Well, they're not worried because they have the creed.

They have the creed, but not their heart.

The creed, but it's exactly right.

Okay, so we have this passion of perpetra and felicity.

Where do we go from there?

Okay, so what's going on in the context of the time?

What is the story?

So that's, yeah, that's helpful to start with that.

Okay, so sometimes the story of kind of early Christian martyrdom or persecution.

Sometimes people get like a really flat version of it where it's like the Romans are not going around,

dragging everyone out of their houses.

And that's not really accurate to what was happening, especially in the early period.

So there are two formal persecutions of Christians by emperors.

The first one is...

I might believe it.

Decios.

No, decios is the first one.

So decios particularly targeted the clergy makes sense.

And then the great persecution is under the emperor's declaration.

So that's in the fourth century.

We're talking in the hundred years before that.

Okay.

So persecution of Christians at this time is kind of like local and sporadic.

Romans were very suspicious of Christians because they met in secret.

They didn't worship the Roman gods, which is considered essentially a security risk.

Right, if you don't worship the gods properly.

And they were kind of obstinate under pressure.

They wouldn't renounce the faith.

So there's a very famous letter written by an emperor in the Eastern Empire,

Pliny to the Emperor Trajan, about early Christian persecution.

And he's like, I don't know what to do with these people.

I've got these Christians.

They seem to be doing suspicious things.

I don't know.

Should they be punished simply for confessing the name Christian?

Should they be punished for offenses that are charged to the name?

Like, how do I deal with these people?

And so then he says, like, if I, you know, if it comes to my attention that there are Christians,

I question them.

If they're, I give them a chance to recant the faith that they don't recant the faith.

And then I punish them because obviously they got something to hide kind of thing.

And so this is kind of an example.

This is an example what's going on in this period where it's like.

And he then he says, if people come to me with a list of people they say are Christians,

like, I'm not looking into that because.

How am I going to hunt them down?

Yeah.

Because, you know, people are slandering each other.

They're telling me, oh, those Christians.

It's basically like, if the problem hits you right in the face, fine.

I'll address it.

But it's not an active persecution.

Right.

So we don't, obviously, Pliny's letter is in a different part of the empire.

So we don't know exactly what's going on in the context of North Africa,

but some kind of local persecution.

So actually the passion kind of starts in the middle of things.

Like the beginning of the passion, they're already under arrest.

Okay.

So we don't know what.

We don't know why or exactly what.

They're arrested.

We don't really know.

But they're under arrest.

And Perpetua is actually a catacumans.

So she has not been baptized.

Okay.

And she is baptized well under arrest.

And then we have a really interesting kind of exchanges with her peg and father who wants

her to announce the faith.

Do you know how old she is?

I don't know if they say exactly how old she is.

I think.

But she's young.

She has a young child.

So she has a newborn who's still breastfeeding while she's under arrest.

And so her father is trying to convince her to recant the faith of the sake of her child.

And so it's not really interesting.

I mean a psychology of martyrdom that you wouldn't normally have any window into in the early church

of her father trying to say like it's not worth it for your family.

Have pity on me.

Yep.

You know, and her sort of steadfast faith in refusing to do that.

And it's, I mean, it's really remarkable to think of how strongly,

how strong her faith is and how strongly she identifies as Christian.

Even though she's a catechumin and this is a relatively new faith,

she's really very secure in the faith that there's,

and part of that has to do with what she considers the name, the name Christian.

So we take the name Christian for granted.

But because they're persecuted for the sake of the name and you consider when you're baptized,

you receive the name of Christ.

Right.

Augustine says not we're not only called Christians but Christ himself.

So have this conformity to Christ in baptism.

And her, she says to her father like, well, that vase over there or whatever,

you, can you call it whatever you want?

And he says no.

And she's like, well, I'm a Christian.

That's so good.

She's like, you can't, I can't be called anything else, right?

So that's the questioning, like, are you a Christian?

Yeah.

And they say, I am.

She's like, I can't say I, something I'm not.

I can't say I'm something I'm not.

So I am a Christian.

It's just so remarkable too.

She's a young child.

Like the impulse to be like, I can, I can justify renouncing this for the sake of saving my child.

But she's like, that, you know, this is someone who's truly thinking of the things above, not the earth.

Totally.

And it's like a really interesting culture picture.

Because some people who critique sort of the psychology of early Christian martyrdom,

they like, they side with the, they side with the Romans.

They side with the Romans because the Romans are like, you guys are weird.

Like, and the Romans are like, the Romans are like literally often trying to help them get out of it.

Like they're like, I don't want to kill you.

Like just, just throw me a bone here.

Yeah, they're like, just offer, they're like, just offer a little bit of wine.

Yeah.

Nobody's going to like, yeah, or in the macabees, like just put a little bit of pork in your mouth

and then spit it out for all I care.

Yeah, for, it's not a big deal.

Like all you have to do is show that you're not like against the emperor.

Right.

So just like, there's another one around this period of, he's a veteran of the Roman army.

So it really does not want to, you know, kill him.

He doesn't want to punish him.

He's a veteran, right.

So this is like very important.

And he's like, he's like, nobody, people know your heart's not in it.

And like that, you don't really mean it.

Just do it.

Yeah.

And so for them to be like, this often happens in our own life, right.

Where the earthly stakes are low.

Yeah.

Right.

The earthly stakes are like, nobody's looking, nobody really cares.

But like to have that properly oriented like, no, he, this is the devil.

Mm-hmm.

And that's how Perpetua sees it.

And it just doesn't mean like, Romans are possessed by the devil or whatever.

Right.

But she's like, this is the way that the devil works.

The devil says, it's not a big deal.

Just take the fruit.

Just take the fruit.

Like, God will forgive you.

Like, what is God holding out on you?

Who cares?

It's just a piece of fruit, right.

It doesn't, it's not that big of a deal.

And so for them, and they see this so clearly.

Perpetua sees it so clearly as spiritual combat.

So another reason the text is very famous is because Perpetua records a series of visions

that she has will even present.

Okay.

And they really clearly illustrate to her the nature of the sort of spiritual combat

that she's engaging in.

So in the first vision, she sees a dragon at the bottom of a ladder.

Mm-hmm.

And the ladder is covered in weapons.

And she has asked for, she's asked for a vision that will help reveal the fate of her

and the other people under arrest.

Mm-hmm.

So in the vision, sort of her catechist calls to her, Perpetua don't have, don't fear.

And she steps on the head of the dragon, climbs up this ladder into heaven, into the basically the garden of Eden,

where a shepherd, Jesus, gives her something to eat.

Mm-hmm.

She says amen, and she sort of surrounded by the heavenly court.

Mm-hmm.

So she wakes up and says she knows she'll die a martyr.

Mm-hmm.

And so she has, so she didn't convince that to the others.

Like this is going to be a glorious combat.

And then her, I'll skip over the second vision for that.

And the third vision, she sees herself transformed into a warrior where she battles against an enormous gladiator

who's like super tall and beats him.

And she says, I knew I would fight the devil and win.

And so this is like, I mean to us now,

it's easy to look back and be like martyrdom's glorious.

But like at the time when people are saying like, this doesn't matter.

Like you're dying for nothing.

And to see it as like no, this is the devil confronting this new faith.

Mm-hmm.

And like to renounce Christ is to renounce everything.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

Yeah, there's no justification.

There's no justifying I can't do it.

And for her to see that as spiritual battle with the devil and winning,

it really is to see the world from the perspective of the cross.

Because the cross just looks like not a victory.

Yeah.

That doesn't look like victory over the devil.

And yet we have a crucifix in all of our churches because we see this.

This is God's triumph over the sin of the world.

And so to be able to see the world with that.

Like to everyone in the world, this is going to look like a humiliating death and defeat for no reason.

But she knows because of her visions, our faith and her visions that know this is combat with the devil.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm going to be victorious.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And it's very powerful.

And how much our nature just wants, you know, we are children of the fall, so to speak.

We are nature rebels against the cross.

And so we have to battle against our own nature and ask for the grace to accept those things.

Because it's like, yeah, we want to compromise on everything.

You want to compromise on your penances.

You want to compromise on your promises to the Lord.

You want to compromise on prayer.

You want to compromise on all these little things.

And it's so easy to just be like, it's okay.

It's okay.

And it's hard, like in the face of people who aren't, there's a lot of people who are not like eighths,

necessarily not necessarily like out to get Christians, but they just don't care about religion.

Yeah.

Or they don't understand why it's a big deal.

So like, why do you have to leave the family gathering to go to Mass?

Why do you have to like, do these things?

And you can just seem like you're being holier than now.

And it can be very easy to sort of, yeah, make those compromises.

I think we forget to, like, forget the dignity to which our baptism calls us.

I mean, if your baptized is under arrest, you're not going to forget the dignity of your baptism.

You're a lot.

And yeah, you know what you've given up a lot to be there.

Right. And I mean, in this time period, of course, you couldn't be at the Eucharist of assembly unless you're baptized.

So when she's baptized, she prays in the community for the first time.

And she says it.

So Trotelian tells us elsewhere that, you know, the newly baptized asked for special graces after their baptism in the assembly.

And she asks for grace to persist in martyrdom.

And so it's like, all of us are called to martyrdom by our baptism.

We're called to die with Christ.

But I think the connection between that is not as palpable necessarily as it is for them.

But especially in North African Christianity, there's a very close relationship between baptism and martyrdom.

And like, you know what you're signing yourself up for.

Yeah, that was an active reality.

It was an active possibility.

And, you know, some historians like to be like, well, they're like percentage wise not that many people are martyred.

And you're like, well, having people martyred around you at all means like, you don't know.

You're like, yeah, this could be me.

And it's like, I mean, technically that's true.

If there's 100 questions, the only one is martyred, that's not percentage wise a lot.

But like, if you're in a parish, let's say of 2,000 people and 20 people are martyred.

Yeah.

That's as an enormous psychological impact.

Right.

That's a really big deal.

And, you know, today, we've often heard the statistic that there's more martyrs in the 21st century than in all the centuries leading up.

But, you know, for us, most of those, that's not in the United States.

They're in Africa.

Not anybody we know.

We're China or other parts of the world.

So it's like, for those people there in Africa, in Asia, in these areas, it's like for people that are right now, today,

in the catacuminal that they're coming to the church and they know that a friend of somebody was just martyred.

You better believe that they're like, I know full well what I am.

Exactly.

And for thinking about like Cyprian, who's a famous North African bishop in the 3rd century.

That's not that long after this.

Like, he's going to be in living memory of people who knew these martyrs.

And so, you know, he talks about essentially the Eucharist as being a very real pledge to martyrdom.

Because if you receive the Eucharist first thing in the morning and people smell the smell of wine on your breath, they might know your Christian.

Because why would you?

Yep.

So it's like, it's like a really palpable connection between baptism Eucharist and martyrdom.

You're going to bring it back.

You're telling, you're telling an elsewhere talks about he's summarizing the creed and how like everyone holds a creed in common.

And then at the end of the creed, he summarizes the rights of initiations.

He says, you know, the church baptizes water, lays on hands, feeds with the Eucharist and exhorts to martyrdom.

And like, so I've often wondered, like, does he mean literally?

Yeah, like what is that literally part of the right of initiation?

Yeah, we're going to like die with Christ today and whatever that means.

Or is it just the understanding that like the right of initiation is the exhortation to martyrdom.

And this continues, right, even after the time of actual martyrdom, the idea of like white martyrdom.

Obviously, they don't refer to it that way.

But the idea that monasticism is the kind of like proxy martyrdom of the next time period after, you know,

so the persecution of deicletism.

Just looking to die to the world.

They're just looking to die to the world.

And you know what?

martyrdom's easy way out because you literally just die.

What is martyrdom for us today in the United States?

Good question.

Oh, so we should probably mention Felicity.

Go on to Felicity.

I don't want to leave out.

I don't want to leave out.

She's in the feast day.

It's true.

So Felicity is not obviously, there's not as much talked about.

It's mostly perpetual in her prison diary and kind of her martyrdom.

But Felicity is, so Felicity was kind of a nobleman Felicity is her servant.

Felicity is pregnant when she's arrested.

And all of the people under arrest pray that she will go into labor early.

Because otherwise, she would not be put to death at the same time as the rest of them.

Because Romans wouldn't kill a pregnant woman.

Oh.

I mean under Roman law, the baby is the property of the father.

Right.

So you're not going to kill a pregnant woman until she's given birth because the baby is the one who killed a baby.

But if she wasn't killed with the Christians, then she would have gone into the arena with like common criminals.

So she would have been all alone.

So they pray that she will have the baby early and she does.

She goes into labor and delivers and then says she, the baby is raised by her sister who is a believer.

And the guard sort of like mocks her and says like, oh, you're crying out in so much pain.

Like, how are you going to manage to like hold up under torture, basically?

And she answers very beautifully.

Like, now I suffer for my own sake, but then another one will be suffering in me.

Come on.

So she would, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's beautiful because we obviously, we're not talking about somebody who has a super sophisticated theological understanding.

But she understands that like, this is martyrdom for Christ and its unity with Christ.

It's Christ who will suffer.

And conformity to the Christ on the cross.

And that, yeah, and that'll actually be easier.

And that's a mystical union.

Yeah.

That there is.

Well, they'll haven't given birth myself.

Like, I don't know that martyrdom could be that much more painful anyway.

She'll be fine.

She'll make it.

She'll be great.

It'll be good.

Yeah.

But yeah, this is, this is an incredible story.

It is incredible.

And they have also a very strong understanding in North Africa.

And in the story itself of martyrdom also has a second sort of baptism in blood.

Mm-hmm.

And so that idea of, yeah, baptism and then other baptism.

So Stertollian talks about the two types of baptism flowing from the side of Christ and the cross, the water and the blood.

And so we think about, we often think about that as the institution of the sacraments.

But they also saw it as kind of like the twofold sacrament of baptism.

Something that strikes me all the time when I read stories from the early church or when we're doing these Catholic St. Episodes is like the treasure that they understood that they had in the creed.

I'm always struck by this because today it's like we have the creed.

We have the 500 page catechism.

We have a million theological books.

And it's so easy to just like just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, which is a beautiful thing.

And it's a tremendous gift that we get to do that through the faith of the church.

But they had just the creed.

And it was like, that's who I am.

This is what I believe.

And it was like such a adherence to that.

Yeah, and I think part of that, you're like hitting on one of my absolute favorite topics, early Christian liturgy.

So part of the reason for that is because the creed is so closely linked to baptism.

Yeah.

So that actually historically the creed was probably developed as a baptismal creed.

It says that in the catechism as well.

So the idea is like the creed is handed over to you.

You learn the creed.

You write it on your heart.

And then in order to be baptized, you produce the creed.

So we still have this in the baptismal, right?

Like do you believe in God?

Except you don't really, right?

You really recite the whole thing, you just say yes.

Right.

Well, and they do that.

They probably did that in North Africa as well.

So it was a do you believe?

Yes.

Okay, God.

You didn't have to memorize the.

Right.

Well, you probably knew the creed.

Who is the senator in Augustine's confessions?

Oh, Victor Ryan is.

Yes.

He's not a senator, but whatever he is.

He's a public figure.

Yes, he's a public figure.

Yeah.

But I always, I imagine that he though, isn't he like proclaiming the creed?

Yes.

He is proclaiming the creed.

Okay.

Yeah.

So by Augustine's time, it would be the handing over the creed.

Like you're standing up and you're like, this is it.

You memorize it.

Yeah.

I mean, we still do that now in adult baptism, right?

Or even.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, when I came into the church, I had to recite the creed.

I don't think I did.

No.

I think I just gave the, do you believe in God the Father?

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

I remember.

Oh, you know what?

That's not true.

The, the DRE.

I had a wonderful RC.

I experienced not trying to knock it here.

Uh, the DRE would say the article you would repeat it.

So you didn't have to like, but we memorized all 12 articles.

Okay.

They would say an article you would say an article.

Well, our standards are just lower.

They are lower.

I'm like, bring it back.

Writing it on your heart.

Bring it back.

Producing it.

I mean, but that idea that this is, but that idea that this is part, like that the creed

in your identity and crisis are so closely related.

Yeah.

And it is like this, this is the moment you're prepared for some early documents suggest

the Catholic community is years.

We don't know.

Yeah.

Exactly how long the Catholic community was, but you know, you profess the creed and then

you're baptized.

And if you haven't ever been in the Eucharistic assembly, the idea of like, the psychological

impact of like full initiation and then, you know, being there for the first time, it's

kind of hard to overstate.

Like, we take it for granted.

No, we do.

We don't.

The mystery is.

Right.

We take it for granted.

And if you ever go to the Byzantine liturgy, they still have the part where they shout the

doors, the doors.

Yeah.

Right.

And that would be the part where the Catechumans would not be allowed and they would close

the doors.

I think we should kick you a lot of mess.

Back.

I do love that there is now more move to remove the Catechumans out after the liturgy of

the word before the liturgy of the Eucharist.

This is, it's great.

It's inspiring.

These are some of my absolute favorite sayings as one of my absolute favorite texts from

the early church.

It's not very long.

Anybody can read it.

So if you want to go look up the passion of perpetual Eophilicity and read it, I think

you will find it very inspiring.

I agree.

And Dr. Klein, you have a short course called martyrs and monastics and I believe you talk

about them.

Yes.

So in that short course, yeah, I talk a lot about a lot of this stuff more in depth, like

how martyrdom is related to monasticism.

And then I have some examples of martyrs and monastics from the early period from different

places in the empire, including Pachumoplasty.

Just check that out.

Dr. Klein, thank you.

It was a pleasure.

It was wonderful.

We will see you next time on Catholic Saints.

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