Strengthening Marriages Through Emotional Connection

0:00In association with the Agri Health Network, it's time for that farm life podcast, planting hope, harvesting string. On that farm life, we talk about that life that is that of a farmer and their family. It's about the day-to-day grind, the good times, and tough times, and everything in between, because farming is more than a job, it's a way of life. And we're here to offer opportunities to help you deal with the stress and strains of farm life through faith, family, and community with other farmers. Now, here's your host, a farmer, a former Agri business owner, and also the pastor of a Southern Baptist Church in Arkansas, Archie Mason. Well, hey, folks. Again, welcome to that farm life podcast. My name is Archie Mason. I'm your host. We're joining us today for this episode.

1:00You can check us out at agrihealth.net, find out some resources about it. We do have the show notes that will be available for our episode today. We are continuing from last week, with our conversation with Mr. Kenny, he has a background in agriculture, and last week we shared how God has used his experience and his knowledge in ministry. Now, he has shifted careers and is a marriage counselor now, with marriage and family institute in Nashville, Tennessee. He's a certified EFT therapist, a supervisor and a trainer, and he's going to tell us all about that today in this episode. So Mr. Kenny, I know some folks have been waiting. We're going to get some marriage tune up. We're going to get some marriage therapy today. We all need it. And so thank you for joining us. So glad to be here. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So let's just jump right in. What made you decide to become a marriage therapist? Well, 25 years ago, I guess, I had an opportunity, I guess I had an opportunity to go back

2:02to school and came up for me, meaning getting my grad degree. And I really thought it would probably maybe kind of get my feet wet in the counseling world, maybe just to work in kind of a pastoral kind of way. But I got in a program, actually, Trebekah Nazarene University here in Nashville. And just absolutely loved it. And so just went all the way through, I graduated, got licensed and all that. So I don't know, I'm going to feel somewhat, sometimes I feel like things in life kind of find us instead of I was finding it, it can't found me. Yes. Very good point. Very good point. I didn't mention this early and I apologize, but there may be an old cowboy out there or a cowgirl on this. And I don't know about this marriage therapist stuff, but let me just remind you, Mr. Kenny, he's no rodeo guy too.

3:04And so he's in your circle and knows your language and has been through that. So okay. Now, you know, I can read in the notes that this is a motion-focused therapy, but I'm just going to tell you, I'm not 100% sure exactly what that is. Yeah. And so what is that and why is that so important to you? Well, I would say the first thing is, just like in farming, right, we've got what God gave us, you know, the resources. And then we, over time, there's science that informs us and how to do those things better. So I was, when I started first working with couples, I found myself very lost, to be honest with you. I'm intrigued by it. I loved every minute, but I didn't, I felt like something was missing. So I just kind of began to look around and study different things. And I found this, it's called EFT, emotionally focused therapy.

4:07And even the name of that doesn't sound very, but those who grew up, grew up where we had to like forget about how hot it was, you know, and how cold it was, or how bad that hurt my finger when the gate slammed down it, when the cow came through. So we don't, you know, the word emotion is not very attractive, but as I studied what I come to realize that it's really a process. It's not like just finding a feeling word to kind of help people in that regard. He might be turned off by the name. It's a process, emotion is a process. It's a series of things that happens within us, what we tell ourselves, how we interpret what's going on around us, that leads to a felt sense, a bodily, bodily felt sense of something that we find a word for, which then we can communicate to other. And so we can't really, we can't tame what we can't name.

5:11So being able to find a new language is important, you know, a new way to turn to each other and not from the stuck ways that we get all called in. And I get stuck now. I mean, just because I've studied this, I've written books on it. It doesn't mean that I can't blow it. I can sometimes, sometimes, Archie, I can, I know when I, something's coming out of my mouth, I know exactly how it's going to land with my wife, who's that. And I love her dearly, but it just comes out. And so then what do we have to do? Well, we have, we've had to learn over time over how to repair it, okay? And if we can repair it, we come out knowing that we, hey, this, we're actually coming out of this better, okay? And also next time something happens, it's not, if it's going to happen, it's when it happens, we get stuck in our little pattern here. We have confidence that we can get out of it because we've done it in the past.

6:12Okay. Quick question. I know, I know in a refugee, I do apologize. So I want to, we're going to talk more about building and repairing marriages, how this type of therapy can do that. But you made a statement. You said, if you, if you can't name it, you can't tame it, right? Okay. So, and you're talking about an emotion or something in there, can you explain that in more depth? Yeah. So, I mean, we all feel, we all experience things, but by the way, when we're talking about relationships, it's interesting in it, think about it. We feel the deepest things, positive emotions, the things that move us, maybe toward others or away from people, like nothing else. I mean, relationships are so, so critical to how God made us. He's relational, we're relational. And so, just the, being able to, to really turn to each other in ways where we, we can

7:21feel heard, accepted, responded to, and emotionally engaged, and have those kind of conversations that come from the deeper places where we come out of it better. And actually, it's, that's what we call a bond now, and we know science tells us that's a bond. So, every time we have one of those conversations, we call them A-R-E conversation, accessible, responsive, emotionally engaged, with the one you love the most, then it's kind of, I don't know, I kind of is like, like, putting a layer of varnish on top of a table. And every time we have one of those conversations, that's love, actually. And, and it builds over time, and that's a bond. And then that supports us when, if not, when thing, if things are going to go bad, but when things go bad, because things are going to go bad. And so, then that can sustain us. It's interesting. Another, I can just, it's another little thing here. It takes 80% more glucose for our brain to calm ourselves down, okay?

8:24If we're worried about our crop in the field, our, hey, hey, he's on the ground, and we, it may rain, okay? So, to have that, that's, I mean, that's, that's the, that's a life-threatening, feels like a life-threatening thing. When we, we can, it takes 80% more glucose for us to calm ourselves down, to talk ourselves out of it. Hey, okay, look, the way the man says it, you know, inches aren't high, I said, coming this way, and how you've been here before, and whatever, whatever. But it takes, it takes 80% less glucose if we're connected to someone, if we can turn to the one we love most in life and let them in on where we are with that, so that we're facing that dragon together. That's really, that's really the difference here. Our nervous systems were not made to live by their cell. They were made to be together. And then when they're not panning, panning, we feel levels of fear when our bond, our relationship

9:25with the other is threatened, it's, it gets this reaction, I mean, why do, it's, that's why when I'm sitting with couples who are really screaming at each other at decibels, you know, sometimes my, actually, my ears ring afterward, you know, what are they doing? They are protesting the fact that they're not connected. And they're protesting at, there is a guttural deep, comes from a deep place. In fact, we even know where it is in the brain where this alarm goes off, it says, we're not connected, we're not connected, you don't hear me, you don't understand me. I could just get my point across to you, right? And then, but the more one person typically gets escalated, okay? And gets us a, really begins to push and like us solve this and talk about it now, surely this can't be of that big a deal. Come on, where are you going in the other person when that emotion gets really high? They want to slow shut down. They actually, actually less likely even to find words in those moments.

10:28And then they'll move away. And then the more they move away, then the more they're convinced that their spouse can convince that they're, they don't care and they don't matter to them. And so then they take it up a notch. And then the other person who's kind of just like bail water here to keep these negative emotions from sinking the ship can just bail and faster than they can and trying to calm things down and waiting for this to pass over. And that's typically the cycle that are a derivative of that, that every person in a intimate relationship encounters at some degree, there's variations to it. But that, that all comes from the center of our being, it says it ain't good to be alone. And it's not good. I don't operate at full capacity unless we're together. Wow. I was sitting here thinking that is deep, that is deep. But you put it in such a way, though, I can understand that.

11:30And that statement you made early on as you kind of walked through that, you said, and you said it again, just then, but our nervous systems were not created, basically be by themselves. Right. That's a wild, that's a wild idea to me. I get it. I agree with it. I've just never thought about it like that. Okay. So you took us down into that. And it made me think about situations that I've probably been in myself, this visiting with maybe another family or whatever. And I thought, whoo, he's exactly right. But let's talk about building and repairing. Okay. So how can this EFT, how can it help build and repair? You gave us some hints of that, just in what you were, you know, telling us, but got to walk us through some scenarios. I would say there's enemies of intimacy, okay. One of them is not bringing stuff up. If it bothers you, and it lingers, address it, and we don't want to do that. And I can do that myself.

12:31I can, I can smooth things over and things don't pass. But then that tends to build over time. And so that, I think that's our work, we get kind of, we get stuck and we try to reach for each other. And the closer we, you know, seems like the more we try to reach to get closer, the more we end up filling apart, which is demoralizing, because we're stuck in this pattern that I was just describing. So, you know, there's, like, marital growth is like, you know, how do we come, how do we get better? A lot of our programs are around, how do we get better as a couple, how to build these skills and stuff. And that works if you're, if you've got a, you know, if you're not stuck in a real serious kind of way. But if you've been stuck in this negative pattern for a long time, it's just really hard to shake that off.

13:31You could, you know, for example, you say, we give people advice like, well, what do you need to do this guy? You know, you need to have a date night, right? We always say, you know, go spend time out, you know, you're asked in a couple who's really stuck and doing all they can do in a relationship to go out and what? Sit across the table in a restaurant and realize that only two that not having a conversation, you know, they go and we're asking them to fight in public. So, there's a difference between growth and being really stuck, you know? And so, when we get stuck, we need help, you know, can I give you an analogy? Yes, sir. It just comes up for me. So, I had a truck like the 94 Chevrolet. I had a truck and there was no longer road worthy. I just had it here on the forum. I turned the key at night, every check engine light would come up and they would tell me, I could read a book, you know? And so, what I could do, I could keep driving that truck and I could put tape over the

14:35lights, right? The check engine lights. And then that didn't work. If it starts to start making noise, I could turn the radio up. And then I could, if that, I could just keep driving until I start smelling all burning. I mean, I guess I could roll the window down, right? But I mean, those signals are telling us something didn't right under the hood. And we need to be attuned to those things and listen to those things because it's way we're wired and it's what God is prompting us, like I made you this way and this isn't right. So, we get out, we go out, we open the hood. In my day, the hoods were heavy. In fact, I got a Dodge Ram out here, it's got to have you. Because when the thing, the thing that held it up with the spring went out, I used the piece of firewood to keep it from falling on me. But we need someone to hold the hood up for us while we look under that hood because it was made too heavy for us for one, it's not a one man job.

15:37So whenever we can turn, whenever some can hold that hood for us and help us find what's going on underneath, we can come out in a better place. And of course, God plays a big part in a piece in that too. I mean, He can hold that hood up in ways that we can't. People in our suits can't and to explore and find out what it is because those signals are really invitations for intimacy. They're invitations for intimacy and if we don't listen to them, they become enemies of intimacy. Oh, wow. Now, that's good. That's really good. Well, let me ask you this. And why do you think couples sometimes put off getting help until their marriages are in a crisis? You know, why is that? And it may be because it's kind of, and it's probably a second part of that question is in it, and James Barham is kind of uses this term, you know, sometimes our marriage just needs to tune up in it.

16:38But so that's kind of a second part of that. But why, you know, what if folks just put that off to this, it just gets in a crisis? Is that just normal? It's normal. Well, it's normal for people to put it off, I guess, because they say most couples wait seven years before they come in for help, after they're, you know, after they're in crisis, actually. You know, or get bills to a place. And so again, they're not listening, they're not, they're not listening to the signals. They're not listening to those check engine lights that come on and says something's right. So they wait. I think a lot of it is is that so busy, everybody's so busy that we, there's so many ways we can just, and there's so many distractions now, unbelievable amount of distractions that we can turn to. And so then what happens is just sort of get, you get in a rut where you're living independent lives. You can logistically, you can talk and you can make, you know, decide where the kid who's

17:40going to pick the kids up from school and these kind of decisions and logistically, you can communicate there, there's very little heartfelt communication between the two. And so some people, and this I think sometimes is even actually encouraged in some circles, this is the mountain, we climbed the mountain, this is the best that you get. So we're just going to live with it. And I think that, hey, this is what, this is what happens when you've been married, after you've been married 10 years with kids, or this is just the way it is. And that kind of thing. So they settle, but then it, but it doesn't get away because they like check, check engine lights don't go off, right? And so then it can lead to, you know, lead to catastrophic endings a lot of times. Yes, sir. So what, what wisdom or hope I do want to talk about the book you co-authored here in just a moment. But what wisdom or hope do you give to our listeners who marriages may be struggling?

18:41What, what advice would you give? Well, life is about, order, disorder and reorder. Think about it, science, agriculture, life, politics, everything in life, and relationships are no different. There are seasons where there is order, and then there are seasons of disorder. And then there's reorder, but we have to, we, if we begin to see it that way, in real as that, that's, that's just the reality of living in this world. And give us ourselves some grace. And to turn in enough courage and listen to your heart, you know, the love that you have for each other and just say, we really need some help here. We really don't have to do life alone, parallel. We weren't created to live that way. Our bodies don't function as well.

19:41Nothing around us functions that well. Our families are impacted by it too. And so just having fun in the courage of the faith, the trust or whatever, to reach out and, you know, find someone who's skilled and trained in how to help people get unstuck in these ways. Just give yourself permission to fight for your relationship in a very different way, other than fighting each other. You know, fight for it by going out and stepping outside of maybe your comfort zone. And I think people are afraid they're going to get bad news like some counselors going to say, hey, y'all shouldn't be together. I hear that all the time. I don't, I've never told anybody that in my life. I would leave a counselor's office if they told me that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. I'm coming there for someone to tell me what I should be doing or not do. And I want someone to lean in and with relentless empathy, sit with me, understand what I'm doing and realize that there's a good reason why why you're stuck.

20:45And I want to help you. And we are, we are, we have science now that really has given us some tools and we have some understanding now that can really do it. And so why the FT model 70% of couples come at research now comes out of it fit, you know, healed, never been this good, 90% come out of it improved. So we have statistic, we have the research behind that. But it takes, you know, it takes, it's all has to do with a couple and their ability to and desire to really fight and work for it. There's a resource you co-authored a book called Creative for Connections. So is this resource for people in the counseling and therapy world or can, can it help any couple? It was written for couples. It wasn't written for a therapist. This is a book for, for maybe there's, there's sectors of our society who don't, don't trust counseling, okay?

21:47Yeah. This is a way to sort of step into that. Maybe they would read this book that was our intent or didn't have the finances to do it or live in a remote areas where there's no, I mean, there's no availability for help, you know, I mean, legitimately, or good help. So yeah, this is for, this is a book that a couple can read and, and walk through and it'll help them identify these things that I was already mentioned to, like, where do we get stuck? Explain why, what do I do when I get upset and feel like you're not listening to me and then what do you do and tracking that and it just carries them through chapters by chapter to leads them to where they can have, learn to have some conversations from a very deeper level. So where can a person find this resource set? It's on Amazon books. Yeah, hey, I just, when I, I just googled that while I was talking to you, I asked a question that pops up with you and Dr. Sue Johnson.

22:50Yes. Okay, and yeah, and I'm going to say that there was a book that was written called Home Me Time. Yeah. And so I worked with Sue with a Sue, incredible, most brilliant lady, number one, I think in most of the agreement, number one therapist in the world, number one researcher in the world. And she came up with this model. So I really encouraged her for us to write, rewrite Home Me Time for the Christian population. So what it does, it, that, the new book that we wrote are for those who see God as an attachment figure are that, you know, appreciate and understand the bond and the importance of having that bond with God. And so that's what, that's really what's different and, okay, I can, I can see as I pulled

23:51up Amazon, I'm looking at it, it's also available on audio, audible audio book. So if you're like me, if you drive somewhat or a lot of times you don't track your bail and hey, I can listen, just keep wanting to hear potty and listen and listen for the bailer to blow up at the same time, but you can do that, you can get a hard copy and basically want to title a crave for a connection, the Home Me Time God for a cruising couple. So yeah, sounds good, sounds like a great resource. And so folks can get that also, you know, the US Army, the Chaplain Corps is all trained in that, in that they're trained in other things too, but it's a big part of their training now. And is, and they use that work with all their, a lot of their, yes, sir, yeah. And you, you mentioned, I don't know if it's on this episode of the previous one that you do some work with military couples, correct? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I trained chaplains in this model and also in how to facilitate these training to

24:58create for connection, how to use that for a small group curriculum or a weekend, marital retreat kind of for me. Okay. Hey, if someone wants to reach out to you, Mr. Kenny, do you have a website or an email address that they could maybe give you a shout? Yeah, you could go, you could go to MFI, which is Marriage Family Institute. And find me our EFT Tennessee, just those, you'll, you'll get me to take a big name in there. And they'll have a contact person and they're a lady, you know, a personal, she can, be more than glad to pass that course of correspondence on tennis. Yes, sir. Well, hey, Mr. Kenny, thank you so much for your time. I mean, you spent an incredible amount of time, a lot of great advice, advice input that you've given us these two sessions. I can't thank you enough for joining us. Oh, well, it's been my honor. I appreciate the opportunity to do it. I believe in what you're doing here. So keep going. Yes, sir.

25:58Well, thank you so much. Well, folks, making your marriage a strong safe place can be difficult, but it's always always worth it. Today, Mr. Kenny shared about emotion-focused therapy, how this is scientifically proven therapy. It's a model that can help you connect very deeply with your spouse. You can find, I created for connection the book that he is a co-author, Dr. Sue. It's a website, marriagefamilyinstitute.org online. As we mentioned, you can check it out there at Amazon and all those other bookstores, other places also that you can find that check out our show notes for links and more information. If you like our podcast, please leave us a rating and a review and share it with a friend. Thank you for joining us. As always, our plans will be back next week with another episode until then. We encourage you to keep farming and keep your faith. We'll see you later. You've been listening to that Farm Life Podcast, planting hope, harvesting strength with your host, Archie Mason.

26:59The Farm Life Podcast is a creation of the AgriHealth Network in conjunction with grounded faith ministries, where we offer opportunities to help you deal with the stress and strains of farm life through faith, family and community with other farmers. You can learn more about who we are and what we do on our website at agrihealth.net. That's AgriHealth1Word.net. Thanks for listening and until next week, keep the faith.