Stop Raising Obedient Kids

0:00The following podcast is a deer media production. Welcome back to another episode of After Bedtime Besties. Today, we're talking about obedient kids. Listen, we are obsessed with good kids. The idea of a good kid. When we say a good kid, we mean she's so well-behaved. He never talks back. They're so respectful and we light up when we hear it. When we hear a stranger or, oh my god, our parents. If our parents say that, we're like, we did something right. But let me ask you something uncomfortable. Is your child respectful? Or are they scared? Is your child kind? Or are they performing? Is your child regulated? Or are they suppressing? Because obedience can look really beautiful in childhood. Quiet, polite, easy. It's what we all want in our child. And this obedience can cost

1:09a fortune in adulthood. Today's episode is called Stop Raising Obedient Kids. This episode might be triggering for some people. This episode might also break something wide open inside of you that you needed to hear as a child. And that you need to hear now parenting your very human child. Get through the whole episode. And then let's talk about obedient kids. Welcome to After Bedtime, where the house is finally quiet, but the real noise begins, the thoughts, the questions, the wondering if you're doing any of this right. We're Kristen. And Dina, child behavior experts, moms and co-founders of big little feelings. And we're not here to give you more pressure or perfect parenting energy. No, we're here to tell the truth. The unfiltered, beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids and re-raise ourselves in the process. Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks.

2:09It's about healing. It's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud and we're so glad that you're here. Friends, how are you? How are you doing? It's March. I believe the episode will come out in March. It's a quick turnaround episode, which means it's past daylight, savings time. We get an extra hour at the end of the day. I feel uncroyable about it. It was absolutely brutal the first week after a daylight savings time where you're waking up and it's like in the dark and it feels like 5 a.m. in the morning to get my kids to school on time. Oh my god, I'm there dragging. However, however, you just shove that down and you focus on the end of the day, all of the light. And here it is extremely warm in California. I don't know where you are. It may or may not be warm, but it has just been a blessing. It's a blessing to be almost on the other

3:11side. Speaking of the other side, I am not on the other side of six season. It turns out, well, I personally am and we're going to get we're going to get to that. My house is not. So my house had flu B. Okay, there's a couple types of flu. And apparently they tested positive, my children tested positive for flu B. And when I say I overdosed myself on zinc vitamins, vitamin zinc, I mean it. Like I maybe I don't feel that great today. I'm going to be very honest with you. I feel extremely tired. But is that normal? Probably. And I, is it because of the zinc? I don't know. Is it because it's just my baseline right now? I don't know. Is it a pair of menopause? Is it? Is it COVID? Is it the 88? I don't know. But what I'm saying is I would take about 10 to no. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating. It's about six to eight zinc vitamins every single day while

4:15the flu B was floating around my house because we took my child to the doctor. Okay, it was the youngest one first. We took him to the doctor who's so sick, poor baby. And tested positive. And my husband is like, Oh, is, you know, is that contagious? And the doctor literally laughs out loud. She's just like, Oh, yes, yeah, no, one of one of the most contagious. Yeah. Yeah. Like good one, Buccaro, you're hilarious. And in our house, we have shifted to co-sleeping while meaning like our kids can come in in the middle of the night if they need to. And a lot of times they do. And not all of them. Some of them, one of them, all of them, whatever. And by the way, this is not how we used to be at all. It was like strict your own beds, whatever. We can talk about that a whole different time, the shifting times of motherhood. The point is, is that with me and my

5:18youngest, we sleep literally not joking, nose to nose. Okay, someday when I am 80 years old and I am on my deathbed, I will be thinking about how in the middle of the night, this sweet little baby, he will, he will just stroke my face. He will stroke my face in the middle of the night and just go, Mama, I love you. Give me a kiss on the forehead. Okay, but this is not one of those nights. This is a night where he has fluby. And we are sharing a pillow, not about a pillow. And the coughing, the hacking, what directly, when I say directly into every every part of my face that breathes just all the contagious moisture in the air, just directed right at my mouth. But, but this is two weeks later, my friend. I am, we're about 14, 14 days since anybody else

6:19has had fluby. And I'm going to knock on every piece of wood that exists in the entire world and every tree that is out there because I, well, you know what? Actually, I'm not even going to say it. I'm not going to say it. I'm going to leave it at the children had fluby. And I took six to eight zinc vitamins a day. And I am sitting here and I don't sound horrific in this podcast episode. You do the math, but I'm feeling pretty good about myself. And I hope that something doesn't happen to me because I said this out loud. What else is that it? I mean, I'm on the other side of the time change. So are you? It's glorious. We are not on the other side of six season, but maybe we'll get there soon. Feel like we're around in third. I feel like we're getting close. And today's episode, obedient kids. Oh, Lord, guys, I'm going down. Did you hear that sneeze? It was, I, anyway, I knew I shouldn't have fucking said anything. Let's get into today's episode about kids.

7:22Let's shift into parenting a kid to be themselves fully and wholly and not need your approval in order to feel worthy or loved. Hi, I'm low-boss worth the tally and I'm so excited because I'm the first time mom. Over the last decade, I've felt wellness products for millions of women at my company love wellness, but nothing has rocked my world quite like having our miracle baby. Not even close. Tell me I'm a good mom is my new podcast about navigating motherhood in real time in a culture where we obsessively document our kids, but quietly sideline mothers. Motherhood comes with endless advice, but very few honest conversations about how it actually feels to be a mom. So that's what we're going to talk about because we deserve more than parenting tips. We know we're not bad moms if our kid cries while we take a shower. Frankly, we deserve a real brand. We deserve context,

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11:38grow into healthy adults. Okay, obedient kids. To start this off with, I want you to picture your child at 25. Okay, they're in a relationship, they're at work, they're in a room where something feels wrong. Maybe a boss crosses a line, maybe a partner dismisses them or maybe a friend is pressuring them. Do they speak up or do they shrink? Do they trust their gut or do they look around for the most powerful person in the room and follow? Because obedience trains kids to prioritize authority over intuition. Regulation, on the other hand, trains kids to trust themselves. And if your parenting goal is just, I need them to listen. You might accidentally be raising a child who listens to everyone except themselves. And that's what we're unpacking today. I think we

12:42all have experience with being the obedient kid. Most of us were raised in houses in the 80s or, if you are younger or older, it's somewhere else in a different decade. I was raised in the 80s. And my parents, however well-meaning they were, they wanted an obedient kid. Okay, the kids were for showing. The kids were like an ornament. We were to be seen and not heard. All right. And that was very common in those days. I was a very good little girl. And that might come as a surprise to you because if you've listened to our podcast, if you followed us on social media, you know that I was a bad kid. I was a bad, bad kid. But when I was very, very little, I was a good girl. I was really quiet when I was little. We're talking maybe under the age of seven. So very, very, very little before I was the bad girl, I was quiet, like pin drop quiet. Everyone joked that

13:50they didn't know if I could talk. Not such a good thing. I didn't talk back because I didn't talk a whole lot. But I also just didn't talk back. I didn't challenge. I definitely did not make a scene. I remember physically sucking in my tears. I would tighten my throat so hard so that nothing would come out. I remember saying to myself, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Even when it wasn't fine. And I very distinctly remember adults praising me for being mature. I mean, we're talking on five, six, seven years old. They would always tell my mom, oh, she's so easy. Oh, I was always so low maintenance. And I really loved that praise. And I saw how my parents reacted when my sisters had big feelings. They were older than I was. Maybe they weren't sucking in their tears all the time. And my parents were not down. Again, it was the generation of be quiet, stop crying, stop being dramatic. And so while many of us grew up in these households,

14:58and perhaps it wasn't all the way traumatic, there was still this messaging that less feelings, less opinions, less voices, less intuition was a good thing, was better. I loved getting the praise that I was mature, that I was easy. I learned very early that being good meant being safe, being agreeable meant being loved. What I didn't understand until much later is that I wasn't actually regulating my emotions. I was performing. And there is a huge difference. Regulation means I can feel my feelings, stay connected and handle my feelings in healthy ways. And kids are totally capable of that, by the way. Performance means I disconnected from my feelings in order to stay

16:04accepted and in order to stay loved. And that distinction is every thing that we are going to talk about today. Now where did our obsession with obedience come from? Let's zoom out. For generations, obedience was survival. Because I said so, how many times did we hear that? You'll do it. And that's final. Children should be seen and not heard. Our parents weren't villains. Okay, many, many, many of our parents were overwhelmed. They were raised in authoritarian systems themselves. They were raised with fear-based parenting themselves. How many of our parents were afraid of the belt? How many of our parents were afraid of actual violence? And so, psychologists, Diana Bomberand identified three parenting styles. Authoritarian is high control low warmth. We've talked about this before, but let's do it again. Permissive high warmth low boundaries. Authoritative,

17:05which sounds a whole lot like authoritarian. Very confusing for me. High warmth, high boundaries. Authoritarian parenting, the one where there is high control, low warmth, low empathy, punishments, fears. That type of parenting produces obedient children. Children who are following the rules because they are scared of what happens if they don't. Short term, it works. Okay, I'll say it. Short term, fear, and whether we're talking fear in terms of fear of the belt, which is an extreme version. Please don't do that. But even if we're talking fear in terms of I'm going to take something away, it works because these kids comply quickly. We are using fear and cortisol

18:06in their brains to get them to comply. Homes feel controlled. But long term, research shows kids raised in authoritarian homes are more likely to experience higher anxiety, lower self-esteem, difficulty making independent decisions, either excessive submission or, in my case, intense rebellion. Because when control is the tool, kids learn to avoid punishment, but they actually don't learn to develop judgment, which is what we want. They ask, will I get in trouble before making any decision? Instead of, is this aligned with who I am? And that's what we want them to ask themselves before they make any decision. Now, authoritative parenting, and again, I know very confusing because it sounds just like authoritarian. Do you guys not get confused by that because I do? I mean, maybe you guys aren't saying authoritarian parenting and authoritative

19:10parenting all day like I am, but I am just so angry at whoever named these parenting styles. I just, I don't understand why they sound so similar. Authoritative parenting. This is big little feelings parenting. This is the parenting style that most millennials online are following. Some people used to call it gentle parenting, but don't get it twisted. It is not permissive parenting. So I hate the term gentle parenting. Authoritative parenting is warmth plus firm boundaries. It's empathy plus strong limits. This, according to research, consistently produces the strongest long term outcomes, better emotional regulation, higher academic performance, stronger internal moral compass, greater resilience, and healthier adult relationships. Y'all, I don't know about you, but that is all I want for my kids. Is that list? Let's read it again.

20:14Better emotional regulation. Check. All I want for my kids. Higher academic performance. Check. Would love that for my kids. Stronger internal moral compass. Ooh, check. Yep. Greater resilience. Check. And healthier adult relationships. All I think about all the time. Authoritative parents. They don't demand obedience. They don't demand blind obedience. Authoritative parents build resilience. They build capacity. They build frustration tolerance. And they build an internal moral compass that decides, hmm, does this align with who I am? And that is what makes a kid raised by authoritative parents behave well. Because the truth is, you can have a well-behaved kid that is not blindly obedient. I will even argue that your kids will be way better behaved if they are not obedient. And instead, they are taught to have an

21:20internal moral compass guiding their behavior. This internal compass, I'm going to refer to it as character from here out. Okay. Obedience versus character. Stay with me. Obedience says, you do this thing because I'm in charge and I say so. Character says, you're going to do this thing because it's right. And that is what's aligned with our family values and your internal values. Obedience relies on external control. Character relies on internal regulation and internal moral compass. And y'all, you can have a very well-behaved child who is deeply anxious. You can have a really polite child who doesn't know how to say no. And when they get into all those tricky situations

22:25later on in life, they still don't know how to say no. You can have a very compliant child who doesn't trust their own instincts. Quiet and well-behaved does not always equal healthy. Now, listen, of course, there are exceptions to this rule. There are of course some children out there who are just naturally really quiet. They're also just well-behaved because you've done the work so that they have that strong character. In that case, we're good. However, there's a whole generation of us. And there is the truth. And the truth is a lot of the generation right now in the world who is being raised to be quiet and controlled. So how do we raise a well-behaved kid without fear, without blind obedience? Because I want to be really clear, I'm not advocating for chaos. And I'm definitely not advocating for disrespect. You can raise a kind, respectful,

23:32well-behaved child without fear-based obedience. And I'm going to tell you how. First, teach empathy, not intimidation. Instead of don't hit or you're going to your room or you're going in trouble or no iPad for a week. You want to say, oh, hitting really hurts. Look at his face. How do you think he feels? Oh, sad. What can we do to fix this? Come on over here. Tommy, are you okay? Are you feeling, oh, I know, you're feeling a little sad. I want to say I'm sorry, or low-hit. Research on inductive discipline shows that when children are guided to understand the impact of their behavior, they are more likely to act kindly, even when adults are not present. Fear-based kids behave when they're supervised, when you're around. But empathy-based kids behave because they care. And that is the difference between obedience and character. Now, you can use

24:33100 different examples to make this beyond the toddler age of hitting example that I just used. You can use this for homework. You can use this for sibling fights. You can use this on your husband. You can use this on your mother-in-law. Teaching empathy and not blind intimidation is the key. Believe it or not, I am not a fitness influencer. That's sad. It may shock you to find out that I work out every day. I work out every single day for my mental health. And the truth is, I need that workout to be convenient. That's why I stick with Peloton. The new Peloton cross-training Tried Plus powered by Peloton IQ is Peloton's most elevated equipment with real-time guidance and endless ways to move alone or with your favorite instructors. Shout out to Cody Rigby. My favorite for years now. It's cross-training, re-imagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly. My goals truly are just to show up every single day for 20 to 30 minutes. And Peloton

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26:44I am telling you, it is the most comfortable thing I have ever put on my body. And it actually lifts things up, gives me support, and I don't lose shape. Somehow skims has managed to make a brawlet that has both support and comfort. I mean, you should experience this level of comfort and a strapless bra because you deserve it. Shop my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. You will not regret it after you place the order. Be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. Okay, I have a little story. There's this coffee shop near our house that I go to constantly. And one day, I realized something. The line was huge and kids were screaming. People were ordering complicated drinks with words like oatmeal foam reduction. I'm like, what is happening here? And somehow, the staff was completely calm. Orders flying through, receipts instantly texted. Okay, loyalty rewards popping up left and right. And I remember thinking, wow, whatever system they're using is making their life so much

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28:49square and build a setup that works the way you do. Number two, you're going to explain why when we were growing up, we didn't get that. It was like because I said so, even now I do guilty of this all the time where I'm just like spitting out, do this, do that, do this, do that. But there is something so powerful in letting your child know why seems so simple and so easy. But we forget this all the time. When you empower your child, they often will listen. Hey, no food in your bedroom. How many times do I have to say this guilty? I've said that before. Instead, whether your child is two or 10 or 16. Hey, food doesn't go in the bedroom. It goes in the kitchen. We can get ants. You can get bugs. Do you want bugs in your bed? I don't want bugs in my bed. Explain the why every single time. Now, this doesn't mean you're going to debate every boundary. That is not what I'm talking about. We are the firm leaders. We are not debating boundaries.

29:52But you're giving context. Okay. Here's an example. We hold hands in a parking lot because the cars can't see you. You can be mad at me. You cannot scream at me. It hurts my ears and it doesn't feel good. Give them the why. That's totally fine. When kids understand reasons, they develop understanding and studies show that children exposed to reasoning based discipline develop stronger moral internalization, meaning they adopt values as their own. This way, you're building a thinker and not a follower. Number three, allow disagreement without allowing disrespect. This one's going to be hard for my millennial parents. Did you ever get to disagree with your parents? I didn't. Holy shit. Can you imagine? This is where you're going to get a little nervous. Dear listener. You're going to be like, but hear me out. Your child can say, I don't like that.

30:59But they cannot say, you're stupid. Right? Okay. Your child says, I don't like that. And you can respond with something like, you're allowed to disagree. I hear that. And right now, insert whatever the boundary was. You can hear them. You can allow them to disagree. That is warmth and a boundary. That's authoritative parenting. Okay. Now, when they say something like, you're stupid, something that, hey, you're allowed to disagree. You are not allowed to insult me. That is part of our family values. It's helpful if you have some family values handy. I mean, sit down and write out your family values with your kid. Your kid could be two, three, four, five, six, ten years old. And having family values visible where you can see them, we don't insult each other. That's a family value. This creates a child who can disagree safely at home. And that child becomes an

32:02adult who can advocate safely in the world. Now, I'm going to give you three things to say instead of the blanket, because I said so, which I have definitely said before. Okay. Let's just be honest. It came out of my mouth. It comes out of my mouth. It's just so instinctual. So I'm going to give you three alternatives. Number one, your voice matters here. Oh, can you guys imagine? Can you imagine? You can hold your boundary while letting your kid know their voice matters. Oh, how powerful. Oh, how powerful. I'm still undoing this in my own adulthood. People pleasing and not, you know, taking the coffee order that was totally wrong back. Can you imagine hearing your voice matters here. And really letting your child actually feel that, especially as your kid gets older. Really take it,

33:02do you have to hold this boundary? I mean, I am not saying, throw all the boundaries out the window. If you've gotten anything from this podcast episode, I hope that is the opposite of what you have gotten. However, if your child is eight and 10 years old and they say something back and you realize, hmm, well, shit, maybe I maybe they could, you know, play outside for 10 minutes before they do the homework. Maybe that actually would be good for them. You can say, hey, your voice matters here. I hear you and, you know what? I think that actually is a good idea. That's a good value for our family. Go outside before we do homework or your voice matters here and it's time to do homework and hold the boundary. Either way, letting them know their perspective is welcome and that speaking up is safe. Your voice matters. Number two, you don't have to be good to be loved. This is an unspoken thing that we want our children to feel and it is great to say this out loud because

34:06children in general think they need to be good to be loved. Let your child know even when you're mad, even when you mess up, even when you disappoint me, I love you. Love is not earned through compliance. Number three, we solve problems together. This is another core value, okay? You're teaching them that instead of your control, instead of fear, in our family, we use collaboration in order to solve problems together. This builds capacity and resilience in your child and that is our obedient kids episode. Tell me what you think. Please leave a review. Please leave a comment because I'm very curious to know your thoughts on this. If this stirred something up in you, whether it's a good thing, a bad thing, a weird thing, I want to hear about it because I know that this topic is really, really tricky. But I also know that every single parent listening to this podcast, they

35:07only want what's best for their kids. And so no matter how you are doing it, I know that you are doing it with your kid's best interest in mind. I know that. And you know what? I also know that you as a parent, you don't want your kids sucking in their tears the way that I did. I don't want that either. And sometimes we're going to make mistakes where that does happen. I do it all the time. So as always, this episode is not about perfection. And oh my God, I yelled at my kid. And so now my kid thinks they have to be obedient. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We all yell at our kids. I hate it. I wish I didn't, but I do. We're talking using fear as a parenting approach. And at the end of the day, I don't want my kids scanning my face to see if they're safe. I don't want my kids mistaking obedience for belonging. I want my kids to be regulated. I want

36:09them to be thoughtful. I want them to be kind because they understand the impact of their actions on others. I don't want them to be kind just because they're afraid that I'm going to punish them. The world does not need more obedient adults. So many of us are having to undo that obedience from our childhoods. It needs more regulated adults. It needs more ethical adults, more empathic adults, more brave adults, more humans who can say, hey, that doesn't feel right. And trust themselves enough to act. So my hot take, stop raising obedient kids and start raising kids who know who they are. Besties, thank you so much for being here today. This was such an amazing episode. I loved chatting with you. And if you want to raise a kid that is well behaved, but listens to their own internal moral compass, look no further than our courses.

37:15We have programs for the toddler age. We have programs for all ages for those explosive kids. The kids you just cannot get to behave no matter what you do, no matter what you do. We have created programs that allow your kids to flourish in life, no matter who they are, they can be themselves fully and wholly, while still having good behavior. Backed in science, written by busy moms, biglittlefeelings.com slash courses we are here for you. And that is our obedient kids episode. I will see you next week, besties. I think I'll be with Tina. I don't know. It's six season after all. So we are hanging on by a thread over here, the two of us. And every time we go to record together, one of us or one of our children between us, we have six kids now. Somebody is under the weather. Somebody is at a doctor's appointment. So fingers crossed. I think we might be together next week, but no promises. Love you besties. See you next week.

38:30Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.