Stop Over-Thinking Product Development

0:00I have a question, this is from Corey who asked, I'm overthinking product development. And I swear, and you start off the email with that, the answer's already, yeah, the answer's already yes. But let's go on. I'm overthinking product development. I'm building a creator-based business. I'm a writer and a videographer. And the cornerstone of my fledgling business, fledgling business is my YouTube channel where I talk about native plants and natural places in Texas. I've monetized mostly with sponsorship, slash brand partnerships, but of course, I'd like to build a more direct relationship with my audience and reduce dependency on sponsors so I can select with more discretion. I know there's a core slash guide in here for me, specifically on Texas native plants,

1:00how to get started, et cetera, but I'm not sure what's the first step. How do I make sure I don't build something no one wants to waste my time? How do I make something quality? How do I price it? Anyhow, those are all related to an action plan for my products. So that the next time I make a breakout video on Texas native trees, plants, et cetera, my revenue ceiling is much higher. So there's a lot I want to talk about here because this is something I think about all the time. I did the thing you're not supposed to do. I basically just built the product that I wanted to build. When I started some university, I didn't have a product. I, for many years, I was just like you except without a YouTube channel, though, how do YouTube channel in 2011? But what I did was I just created content around pull care and I made my money through affiliate links and sponsorships

2:00and banner ads at the time. And then, yeah, I got to a point where I was like, I want my own product. I want to be in control. And the first product I made was based on Nathan Barry's book, Authority, which is an old, old book that he wrote, probably back in almost maybe 2011. And that book was basically like, hey, write an e-book. So I went, okay, I'll write an e-book. And I just did it around hot tub care. I didn't ask my audience if they were interested in an e-book. I didn't, I didn't had no communication with them. I think I had an email list at the time, but I didn't reach out and say, hey, is anybody interested in an e-book? Because guess what the answer is? The answer is no. That's the answer. I truly believe that like, the audience, it's like the stupid Henry Ford quote, right?

3:02And like, if I had asked my audience what they wanted, they'd say faster horses. I'm doing that in an old-timey voice and I don't know if he's ever actually said that, but hey, I guess what he's saying is it's like, you can't be an innovator if you ask your audience what they want. And so I, so everyone will tell you, why don't you ask your audience what they want? And the thing is, is they're probably not going to tell you because they're not in business. They don't know what they need. What they want is for you to produce more YouTube videos. And they don't really care, as my guess, because I'm thinking about my audience here, they're probably similar. They don't really care how you make those videos, as long as the videos are valuable, they're happy people, right? Now, there are some people in my audience who, you know, again, if I had emailed them all and said, hey, is it cool if I make a hot tub ebook? Would you guys buy that? Everybody be like, probably not.

4:05Or they would just wouldn't answer. So, and if you ask your audience the same thing, like, should I make a course? They'd be like, well, the answer is probably like, well, one, I don't take courses, or I don't know what your course is, or like, isn't your YouTube video just a course? Like, what's the value prop? And that's the thing is like you're asking the audience to tell you what the value prop is without you providing the value prop, proposition, right? So you have to build something that you think your audience would want or put yourself in their position to say, this is what the, this is, man, if I were in this audience and I were these people, this would be crazy valuable to me. And it can align with what you want to build. So here's the thing. Yes, you are overthinking it because you don't know

5:08what you don't know, right? So you have to just rely on what you know or go with your gut. This is probably terrible advice, but this is what I would do because this is what I did. I made an ebook because to me, that was the easiest thing I could make. That's the thing I knew how to make. I didn't know how much to charge. I didn't know if my audience would want it. And I just, but I was like, I want to build this because I know how to do this and it would be easy for me to do. And that's the reason I did it. And guess what? Like, you know, close to 20 years later, no, I guess, 2011, 2021, 15 years later, it's now a real book that I sell. Like, the product just kept evolving over time.

6:11And people kept buying it the whole time. But I don't think if I had asked them, they would have said, yeah, we want a, we want an ebook or we want a book. That's what we want from you, you, you two, man. We want you to make a book for us. I'm like, what? Why? So one, I think you need, like, the thing about the products is I think you need to do both. You know, you can get sponsorships. Sponsorships are fine. I don't, I do them sometimes very rarely. I'm not against them. I think they're, it's a great way to make money. And yeah, it's a different, you know, but if you don't like doing it, it's not like in your system to do it, then don't do it. You know what I mean? Cause that's like, I know that getting sponsorships is a great way to make money. I personally fucking hate doing it. And I personally just hate the whole process of, like, I hate

7:14the limiting factor of having to worry about what a sponsor thinks of our video and being on the hamster wheel of having to make a video because of a sponsor. And I have like no freedom and flexibility in, in, in that work. And I'm more concerned about my creative expression. So in that case, that's the reason I don't fuck with sponsorships. I hate dealing with other companies. So that's just, that's like my gut. That's just me. And yet I know just like you already know that's a good way to make money. For sure. Your audience is happy to, to, to sit through an ad knowing that they got a free YouTube video out of it. Especially if that ad is for a product that you also like that fits in with what you're actually talking about.

8:15Like, it's just like a match made in heaven. In fact, recently, this is not a paid sponsorship in a way. But I was approached by a sponsor who said, hey, you know, for, for brew cabin specifically, they're like, we'll give you a product. And I said, hey, I appreciate the offer. I want to tell you something. I'm, I'm not on a schedule and I'm not going to mention your business. Like I'm not going to openly, I'm not going to open my mouth on camera and say, hey, I think you should buy from this company. I just want you to know that. But here's what I will do. I'll do product placement. I'll stick your product in the video. I'll stick, I'll, I'll make sure that your logo on the, on the products I'm using are in the shots. If you want to send me any swag, I'll, I'll wear it or I'll,

9:18or I'll put it in the video somewhere. But I'm, you're not going to hear it come out of my mouth. And you know what? They were cool with that. But of course, I didn't get paid for it. I mean, I got paid in product, which I need it to make the video. But I just dictate it because I'm like, I'm not, like don't, I'm not being held to this. Now, like they, we did this deal. It's been like months since they, they haven't seen a video yet. But I'm like, yeah, I told you I set the expectations. All right. What am I saying here? I'm just, I'm just telling that story because I feel like, again, sponsorships is a great way to make money if you are cool with that being the money making machine. And I think a lot of people are and I totally get it, not me personally. So going back to your question, you think that there's probably a course slash guide.

10:23Why do you think that? Is it because you know how to make that and you know how to make it really good? Like that's the product that you want to make for your audience, that you think will be a value ad on top of your free YouTube videos. I'm not questioning that. I'm saying, if that's truly what you think, then go for it. But here's a word of warning because I'm in the same exact business, which is yes, making a book or making a course or making a guide or whatever you want to call it is easy. The problem is that and it's easy. And chances are a small portion of your audience will want those things because they are aligned. You provide education about plants specifically from Texas.

11:24There are people in Texas who watch your videos who are also interested in the same thing. They want to take their education a step further than just watching YouTube videos. They will buy a guide and some of them will even buy your course, even though they're watching your free videos. The reason I know this is because I do the exact same thing. My problem, though, is that's the end of everything when a customer watches our YouTube video and buys our course or our guide. That's the end of the transaction. I have nothing else to sell them. And it's kind of a hard sell because truthfully, they're already watching my free videos. So there's a, so it's a very small subset of the audience who are choosing to buy the book and or course, because what you're providing them in the

12:27moment is the thing, like that's the thing they want. So you're already doing it now the book is just taking the thing you're doing on video and making it physical or maybe digital and using it more of a resource as opposed to like having to watch a video, right? That's valuable for some people, but it's not a value ad for everyone in your audience. So that, so what you're going to run up against, at least I can, at least from what I can tell is yes, you will sell your audience, but it won't be a large portion of them. It will be a very, very small portion. So it means that you're going to need a pretty massive audience to see that conversion because the product you're offering is almost is basically the same is it just in a different format.

13:30So while everyone would appreciate it, it's only the people in your audience who want that other format, that will get it. Otherwise, everyone's still happy, right? And once they buy that thing, they're done buying from you. What else do you have? So I think I had emails you, Corey, and I said, I would, I would think of a different way to do this, but and I am trying to talk to myself in this world because I have gone through these trials and tribulations, one of them being for a while, I was like, okay, cool, like we have a book, we have a course, like those things sell, and we make good money, and we have a very large audience. We, not just YouTube, if you look at our YouTube channel, you know, we're at what, three hundred and fifteen thousand subscribers,

14:32but our sales mostly come from Google, which is really to our website, which we spent 20 years building. So, and, you know, so, yes, we can make more YouTube videos. Yes, we're going to write more articles and build that all up, and we're going to make good money doing that. The problem is, is that, like, there's, the growth is kind of not there. It's kind of a job for us. And the reason is, we constantly have to find a new audience every season, because, again, once, like, you have to constantly build your audience, and you're not making any recurring revenue, because you're selling them one product, you're selling them one guide. And again, the amount of people, like the percentage of your audience who are going to want that thing is going to be relatively small, because you're already delivering that thing.

15:34In, and in our case, we're already delivering the thing via YouTube, via Google. We are an education company. We are delivering education. And then we're offering more education packaged differently. And again, only a very small subset of people are going to want that. So now, there are, so, so knowing that, I still think it's a good idea, because clearly, I did it and thought it was a good idea, mainly because, look, I know how to make videos, I know how to write articles. Therefore, I can repackage those videos and articles into books and courses. I know how to make those products. Pretty simple. But, what are some other ideas? Just a, just a spitball. Now, I'm not going to sit here and act like I know anything about your industry, because I don't.

16:37You know, there are sometimes I research a little bit about gardening here and there, but like, I don't really know. All right. Now, let's just, let's just have some ideas. Here is one of my ideas. That failed, but it's an idea. Somebody convinced me that, hey, man, if you sold chemicals, dude, you'd clean up. Why? Well, because I have an audience of people who own pools and hot tubs, and they need chemicals to take care of pools and hot tubs. Not only that, they always need chemicals, always, constantly. So you're like, oh, that's recurring. That's great. Sounds great. Here's the problem. I don't know how to make chemicals. I don't know the first thing about it. So I had to go spend, I don't know, I mean, I had some help. I had a mentor.

17:37I had, you know, people who helped me get through this process, but it took a long time, like a year, before I even had my first product to sell. And when I sent the email out to my list, like, yeah, I sold out, because guess what? Here I, here I was. I built this massive audience of people who, and this is a hot tub product, a massive audience of people who own hot tubs, who trusted me to teach them about hot tub care. And then I go, hey, you need to clean your hot tub, right? Here's our own product. We created our own product, freaking sold out. I was like, oh, shit, all right. That worked. Now why? Because that product aligned very well with our audience, and was not something we were already selling via our content. It was an aid to what we were selling, or to what we, you know,

18:37to what we were marketing, basically. We were teaching you how to clean your hot tub with products. Oh, by the way, here's the product. Great. It's a match made in heaven. It's like doing affiliate marketing, but you own the product. And we white labeled it and did all that. Now you don't have to white label. You can just sell other people's products. But here's the problem we ran into. Over, took a couple years to fully understand this. When I first did those, that small set of products, I was only out about $5,000, because I was just testing the waters, pun intended. And we sent the email and sold out. And I was like, oh, shit. So we sold out. I had to buy more product with the money that we made from selling out the first batch. And we had to buy more than we've sold out with, because we knew that this worked. So we had to spend more money. And so what I realized was, oh, you constantly

19:39have to spend money. And this is a cash intensive business. And as someone who kind of was just all a profit for the most part, that didn't vibe with me. At the same time, we realized, uh-oh. When we create a content around cleaning your hot tub and then sold them a product to clean their hot tub, it worked, right, because it was aligned. But if we just thought about how to fix a high, you know, a temperature sensor in your hot tub, it's like, well, how the hell do you work your product into that? Because it doesn't align with the content. And then also, people start to think, well, wait a minute, you're teaching me how to do this thing. Can I use other products? Like, why do I have to use your product? And, uh-oh, now this information seems biased,

20:39because guess what? It is. And so that, to me, you know, we never really got anybody who said, hey, the only reason they make this content is the seller products. That never really happened, but you can tell. Or at least maybe I could tell. There was like this, uh, it's hard for me to trust a company who's teaching me how to save money on chemicals while selling me chemicals. And so we shut that business down, because it was fun, but, and it was recurring, which was great, but very cash intensive. And doesn't really align with what we were really trying to do, which was, which was educate. We are an education company. It's in our name, so university. So, another opportunity comes along of building an app. Now, this one made way more sense.

21:40And the more I think about the app, the more excited I get about how well the app aligns with everything we do in our company. More so than our books and our courses, which is we are constantly telling people what chemicals that add saving money, all of this stuff. And we tell them like, hey, you need test strips, you need these products. And then you have to, you know, how do you figure out how much, like once you test your water, how do you know what chemicals to add? And, you know, it's like, yeah, it's in our book. And yes, we have it in our course. And we mentioned it in videos. But like, it's still not super helpful because it's not custom. And so the app makes that possible. And you don't have to be a, you know, the people who buy our books, the people who buy our courses, just in the same as maybe you, your courses or your guides are going to be for beginners mostly.

22:43Right? The people who are just getting started. If they're a fan of your content, because they just align with you, right? They're not buying those things. But they're still watching your videos, because they'll want to learn something new here and there. Continued education, that's fine. But only really new people are buying the guides, right? So not only are you pitching a product that is exactly what you pitch in your marketing, and I'm saying this to myself, it's also only for people who are beginners, which happens to be a large part of your audience, but it's not the entire collection of your audience. And so when we came up with the app, that's when I, it took a while for me to realize, oh, no, no, no, this hits the entire audience. This is for every one of them. And it's my job to convince them that they need it. And why it's useful, and why the YouTube content

23:45is only one part, but they're gonna need this. And it's ongoing. It's a tool that they constantly, it's a software service, so it has recurring revenue. But that's just one idea. Do you know how to build an app? Does an app make any sense for what you're doing? I would assume no, because there are so many apps that can identify plants that how are you gonna compete with that, especially if you're just Texas. I don't think that makes sense, but to think about it in terms of like, okay, that's something that could be made, but how does it add value to what we're already doing? So it could be, in your case, specific gardening supplies, or specific tools that you use, in whatever endeavor it is that you're doing, that you constantly use in every video,

24:45that you can be like, hey, this is my favorite tool. We have some in stock. You can buy it, or I put a custom name on it, or whatever the case. So you could get in that business, just know it's capital intensive. Whereas a course isn't. And an app really isn't at first, but it can get pricey if you don't know how to code. If you have to hire people. Now, I think what I had mentioned to you in my email was something that I'm thinking about in the brew cabin space, which I think perhaps is even more aligned with what you do, where it's a, you know, your videos are specific to one area, which is tough, because your audience is going to be naturally small, right? And it's not going to get much bigger, which means that because you have a small audience, you're probably going to have to charge a decent amount of money.

25:46You're going to have to have a pretty pricey product in order to make any profit off this audience. So one way you can do it. And this is not the best, these are not the best ideas. But since you're already making content, why not just charge people in your audience to make more of that content? This is something I'm thinking a lot about with brew cabin, which is with brew cabin, which again is like, it's a very small audience compared to the pool audience. There's only, and this is just the United States. I know there's a much bigger audience, you know, in other countries. But you have, according to the last survey, which you could probably cut in half now, there's about 500,000 home brewers in the United States.

26:47It used to be a million, all right? Let's just say it's a million for the sake of easy math, okay? That's a million people who are at home brewing. Now, I start making videos about home brewing, that appeal to everybody. I'm not making beginner content, I'm not making advanced content, I'm kind of making general home brewing content that's more in the entertainment space, right? I'm reaching, my videos have the potential to reach 100% of the audience. I don't alienate. The niching down, I've already done it, it's home brewing beers, beer specifically. So, okay. What are my options? Yes, I can make a course, and I have done that. And yes, some people bought that course, because my content isn't educational, it's entertainment. And the product that I offer is educational,

27:48which is a different value add. If people see my setup, and they see the beers that I'm making, they might go, well, fuck, how does he make, what's this process? I want to get around the entertainment part and see the behind the scenes. So, it is completely different from what we're putting out there. In your case, and in my case of swimming diversity, we're putting out education and then trying to sell education on top of it, right? So, one idea I had for brew cabin was, well, yes, I could do a course. Of course, I could do a book. But again, my thing I'm selling, so our marketing is entertainment. So, a book and a course are not the things that you're getting for free in my YouTube videos. Now, I could offer those two things on top of saying, hey,

28:49help me make better videos, join my Patreon. And in my Patreon, or whatever subscription service, some wouldn't use YouTube, Patreon, you can build your own, doesn't matter. And say, hey, listen, I'm putting out these big, fancy YouTube videos, but I'll put out a bonus video every week, only for subscribers. So, I could take the whole course idea, right? And go, instead of making a one-time purchase course that I have to put together in one sitting, I could immediately start the product and say, hey, I'll film behind the scene stuff, as often as you want me to, because it's pretty easy for me to make, and you just got to pay me a monthly subscription and then it becomes recurring. And then you get real-time feedback, and you're constantly building up this product, and then when people join later, they have access to all the back catalog. It's a good deal. Like, that's a good idea.

29:51And that's sort of bridging the gap between an app and a course, where I think for you, and I think for Brue Cab, and it does make sense to have recurring revenue for extra content, whereas sum university, yeah, no, that's not going to work, because at sum university, people need to graduate from this. They need to stop learning. We want them to stop learning. They want to stop learning, and just enjoy. And then our job is done. But in home brewing, and maybe plants, which are more hobby-based things, there's an ongoing continued education. So, and, you know, there's really no urgency to those things. And I'm willing to bet that, you know, it might be hard to, I don't know, sell that product, whatever that is for a lot of money.

30:51I know I can't do that at Brue Cab, but, yes, I could build an app or partner with an app, and say, hey, listen, I'll pitch your app, hook me up on an affiliate program, and I make money that way. That's plenty of people do that. And I could do that with Brue Cab right now. And I pretty much treat this other app like it's my app, and just, you know, make money on the affiliate side, instead of it, instead of them paying me a sponsorship fee, or build my own version of the app. So, there are options, and yes, maybe even I'm overthinking it, a bit, and maybe everybody overthinks it. But, when it comes down to it, I kind of feel like there's a right answer,

31:53and you already know what it is. And whatever it is, it is what it is, because, that's stupid. That's so stupid. Let me rephrase that. When I wanted to create a product for Stooming University, I created the product that I knew how to make, and then I sold it to my audience, and it took a bunch of trial and error, but they did finally start buying it. I had to market it a lot, and I had to improve it over time, but they did buy it. Now, when we came up with the app, it wasn't like, oh my god, the app is such a good idea, when I started selling it, people were like, holy shit, where has this been this whole time? Like, fuck yeah, I'm buying the app. No, we've been working,

32:54diligently to improve it, and pitch it, and still, still, it hasn't like fully taken off yet, and it may never. But it's the product that I wanted to make, and I wanted to make pool chemicals, and we pushed it, and we sold it, and we did it, and it worked, to quote unquote, but it wasn't a good fit for the company. And so, the reason that you're overthinking it is because you're afraid, that whatever you pick, isn't going to work. And the thing is, or the thing I believe is, no matter what you pick, as long as you stick, with it, it will work. But you have to convince your audience that this is a value add to what you're already offering, and it takes time for that to happen. I don't, like, I just don't think,

33:54like, you could make a bad product, right? I'm not talking about you making a bad product, or me making a bad product. I'm saying, whatever product you make, you will sell it. It's going to depend on how well you sell it, how much you sell, how big your audience is, how good the product is, what the price is, like, all of those variables, cannot be figured out, before you make anything. No, I don't give a fuck what people tell you. You know, there's all these scientists who are just trying to mitigate the risk. They don't want to take the risk. So they try to figure out all this shit beforehand. You know, they pull their audience. They, you know, ask their audience, like, what would you pay for this product? Like, what the, come on. And then, oh, we'll triangulate that with these other questions and figure it out. And it's like, or build a product that you know how to build, that you know,

34:54in your gut, people would want because you can put yourself in their shoes because you've been dealing with these people long enough. Right? You might even be one of those people. And make the product that you want to exist in the world. And then, just constantly tell them about it and make them understand. That's it. And I know that sounds trivial. And perhaps I'm not saying I'm some sort of business expert, but I can't name a single product that's before somebody built it. They're like, oh, it's good of fucking. It's gonna crush, bro. And then they launch it and they're like, told you, like, you get met with opposition at every turn. Like, you think the guys

35:54who started Airbnb, like, you think their parents were like, yeah, Mark, that's a great idea. I don't even know if the guy's name's Mark. But like, yeah, that's a great idea. Rent out your fucking air mattress in your apartment for actually like, who, what, you're gonna get cereal murdered. That's what my mom would say. You know, ah, why would you do, that does not gonna work. What do you, what do you an idiot? And then a fucking works. But literally everybody who heard that idea for the first time is like, that's a dumb idea. Don't do that. That's so stupid. And guess what? They willed it into existence and now we take it for granted. Now it's just commonplace. A guy sold, and I always bring this up. A guy sold a pet rock. Come on. You think his mom was like, pet rock, you're selling pet, you're gonna get cereal murdered. That's what my, again, I don't know. I think, oh, my moms are just worried about their kids getting murdered

36:54by cereal killers. They watch too much, true crime. So, I don't know. Eh, alright, I'll end it there because I'm losing steam. But, ah, if you have any other questions, shoot me an email, matterjivingeasy.com, or just go to jivingeasy.com, g-I-O-V-A-N-I-S-C-I, .com, and I'll talk to you next time. And I'll talk to you next time. And I'll talk to you next time. I'll talk to you next time. End of the day. End of the day. End of the day. End of the day. End of the day.