Stop Hoarding Points: The 'Earn and Burn' Strategy Explained

there. And so one of the things I do have to ask you, Revender, is, can anybody do this?

Because this sounds great. And, you know, in opening up, you said, hey, you know, you

show people how to turn every day, spend in like these amazing trips. So can anybody do this?

100%.

Yeah. Hi, I'm Nick Justin, host of Everyday Money Heroes, and I've reached

earlier retirement. I'm here to provide information on how to obtain financial independence

and inspire you through sharing stories of everyday people or turning knowledge into freedom.

Hello, and welcome to Everyday Money Heroes. We provide information and inspiration to people

of all ages to take control of their financial journey. I'm your host Nick Justin. And today,

we have Revender, the travel points rebel. Before we get into our conversation with Revender,

I would like to ask if you have not that you would subscribe on YouTube if you are watching

this there. If you're listening to this by way of podcasts that you would follow us on your

podcast player of choice. But I've been said a little bit more about Revender. Revender is a

travel educator, content creator and founder of the travel points rebel, where she teaches

Canadian women how to travel, install and live their best lives. Revender believes travel is a

powerful form of empowerment and freedom. And she inspires women of all ages through travel

inspiration and TIFF to get out there and explore the world in style with confidence by using

strategies of turning everyday purchases into luxury adventures. With that being said, let's

welcome Revender to the show. Hello, Revender. Hello, Nick. Thank you so much for having me on.

And thank you for joining us back story. Okay, so I always like to share back stories,

whenever I have a personal relationship with any of our guests. I had the good pleasure of

meeting Revender three years. No, is it going to three years? Yeah, it's going to three years ago.

I met Revender in New Orleans. No, it was New Orleans. So no, when did Atlanta? Okay, it was New Orleans,

Atlanta. Yeah, it was New Orleans. Okay. And so I was fortunate enough to get included in a lunch

with some other individuals. They brought me into their awesome world. And I have been fortunate

enough to know those individuals, including Revender for some time. So thank you. Revender

keeps me honest as she is one of my accountability buddies and holds my feet to the fire when I say

I'm actually going to get something done. So you have to have those people in your life. My wife is

my primary accountability partner, but outside of that, Revender and other folks keep me in line. So

that's how I got to know Revender and Revender has a very interesting niche. And that is utilizing

points for travel. And so individuals may hear about travel hacking and there are a lot of

different components within travel hacking. You know, you could pet sit. You can do all kinds of

things, but one of the great things within travel hacking is points hacking. Okay, so there is an area

where individuals are leveraging points to be able to take amazing trips. And this is what Revender

specializes in. So we're going to ask her to share some of that insight with us so that we can

apply those things to our lives. So we can turn that everyday spend into luxurious adventures.

So first of all, I got to ask Revender, how and when did you start leveraging points for travel?

Okay. Well, first of all, thanks again, Nick, for having me on. Before I start and before I answer

your question, I also have to add one more title to our relationship. I'm ready.

I'm the fashion police between you and me. You are the fashion police. Okay, so this is what

I will say. If you go back and you look at probably like the second episode, I, yeah, probably if

you go back and look at the mindset video that I did with Matt from coast five couple, you'll see

I had a shirt on there. And Revender gave me her perspective, I will say on the shirt that I

hit on. You know, I thought, you know, everybody like Beaves and Butthead, you know, apparently it's a,

it's a very, you know, unique taste of some individuals. So she, she, she just gave me something.

So from from that point on, she always makes sure that, you know, whenever I'm in her presence,

you know, I, I, I dress up to my potential. Is that, is that a fair statement there at Revender?

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm sure us grown women and we're both grown grown people.

Yes. I think people would appreciate you always got to trust for the environment you want to be in.

Yes. You just send Butthead as your jam. That's cool. But, you know, I just got to represent for us,

you know, a bit more fashionable ladies to say that. I will. So what I will do, I will, I will slice

in a picture. I'm sure I have a picture the last time we got together in Portland where I,

intentionally tried to get myself right so that you would approve. So I'll make sure to add that

picture in there. So yes, well, yes, you are also the fashion police when it comes to me. So thank

you for levels sitting on that now. And by the way, she gets me, she gets me when I say ma'am.

So I'm going to try not to say ma'am. See that, I get that. That's a southern thing that you,

you know, it's very respectful, but here I'm up in Canada. And I don't get to hear ma'am a lot.

And usually when people hear ma'am, that means that you're old ladies. So you're not old ladies.

So that is a southern thing. So you got me to find it so now. So it's a mutual respect for both of us.

But anyways, yeah, so you were asking you about how I got started into points. And actually,

it was a milestone birthday that I had. We won't tell everyone how old I am. Okay. But it was a

milestone birthday for me. And I had always been, you know, like many people just working the

nine to five has limited vacation. And I decide for this birthday, I wanted to do something

different. I've been pretty much an introvert. And I'm like, I was felt like if I wanted to travel,

it would be the typical places. And I would have to travel with people. So I wanted to totally come

outside of my box to do something different. And what I did was go on my first solo travel. And I

decided because it was a pretty big trip that I wanted to plan that I also wanted to do it and

stuff. So I took my opportunity at that time to learn a little bit about points. I, you know,

didn't know very much about it. I've collected points here and there in different programs,

things that, you know, that are common to our different areas. But I really had no good

understanding of what what it meant to be traveling on points. Needless to say, I did a bit of

research. I looked up, you know, different blogs and information on the internet. And I managed

to piece together my first trip on points. And what I was most excited about was that I was able to

go in business class. And in fact, I went on my first points trip on my first business class flight

on the best business class in the world, which is on guitar airways in the Qs sweets. And I got

new travel from New York to do a guitar. And then I traveled on to Milan, Italy after that.

Needless to say, that particular trip was absolutely incredible. The experience was like no

other that I've ever been on before. And if you've ever had an opportunity to travel overseas

in business class and particularly on the Qs sweets and guitar airways, it's an experience like

no other. And once you get a taste of traveling in that way, you'll never want to go back. But

all that to say is that I had an incredible experience. I got to do it on points. I didn't do

it all on points, but I did get to do it on points. It points learning what points is definitely

a has comes with learning curve. But I'm so excited that I actually got that experience. And I've

learned lots about it since. But now I'm on this mission to show people that you don't have to wait

so long. And everyone has the opportunity to travel on points and in business class, if that's

what they choose. And my biggest wish was that I got to do it earlier in life. But hence we can

never go back. We can only go forward. So I'm here to show people how to do it. Yeah, I got to.

Well, in that response, you shared about Qs sweets. Now I've heard about Qs sweets. I've

never been in a Qs before. And I know he said that was the best. So what makes Qs sweets the best

revender? So like I said, I had never traveled business class before. I just thought business

class meant being in a wider seat at the front of the plane. But this takes it to a completely

different level. If you go in particular in the Qs sweets, what they're known for is a 121

configuration. So there's single every single seat is an individual pod. But what's really unique

is that every each pod has a sliding door. So you get the privacy. So you can, you know,

not have to deal with the traffic in the cabin if you don't want to. All of the seats are

lifelike complete lifelike beds. You get dining from the minute you walk on to the moment

you leave. But particular in the Qs sweets that is a particular interest, especially for people

they're traveling in a group or as a couple or with two people is that the two middle seats that

are on the aisle actually will turn into a double bed. So, you know, if you want to, you know,

be with your boo and you want to be in the double bed, you could definitely do that. And then if

you're with a family, if you take the two seats and the two seats behind you, you can actually turn

that into a dining experience because the chairs will turn around and you can have an actual dining room

in the air while you're enjoying dinner. So, and this is, this is a lot more, there's a lot more

other things like you get your personalized pajama or there's your, you get your own pajamas,

you get the slippers. It's just a completely different experience and anything that I've ever

experienced. So, it was safe to say that once you were a bit by the bug, you were smitten to

that sounds great. So, I guess, and I want to just for context, you are in Canada, I'm in the US.

And so, a little bit later on, I kind of ask you if there's some differences there, but I just kind

of love to sit there. And so, one of the things I do have to ask you, Revender, is can anybody do

this? Because it sounds great. And, you know, in opening up, you said, hey, you know, you show people

how to turn every day, spend in like these amazing trips. So, can anybody do this?

100%. 100%. I will say that, you know, I will profess a couple of things is that

getting into the, into the market of traveling on points comes with the responsibility of good

finance. So, you know, obviously, you know, we need to profess that first. Credit card points,

travel points come usually, most easily through travel points that you get through credit cards.

And, you know, the golden rule with credit cards, and I'm sure you say this a lot already, but is

you need to be in a position that you're financially stable to be able to pay your credit card off

100% info. You know, that is definitely the caveat when it comes to traveling on points.

And if you are in that position where you can pay off your credit card info every month,

this is absolutely something that I believe everyone should be doing because we are already

in positions where we're having to do everyday spending, whether it's our groceries or gas,

traveling, you know, everything that required, we are required to do in life even pay our rent.

Those are all opportunities to be gaining points. And yes, we talked a little bit about the nuance

between yourself in the states and I'm in Canada, but the concept of collecting points with

credit cards is a universal topic. Obviously, our landscapes are a little bit different,

and actually in the states, the landscape is much more fruitful than it is in the state or

than in Canada, but definitely anyone who's in a position of good finance should be taking advantage

of things like this. Okay, and so I know that one of the, I guess,

the requirements someone would need to have, definitely as far as being able to pay off your credit

cards in full every month, we don't want to totally need bounces because what happens is that to be able

to provide these very robust sign-up bonuses and it's because it has to come from somewhere, so it's

a lot of times they're high interest cards. And so what happens is those individuals who

tote those bounces paid a high interest for those individuals to be able to use the points and

stuff like that, so we want to make sure that we're paying off them also. That's a great point,

point, but also we have to actually be approved for cards, correct? Because you can apply for all the

cards you want to, but if your credit is in the situation, you guys should get approved.

It's not going to happen, so we want to make sure that we have our credit is in good standing,

but also that we're able to also be able to pay that off in full at the end of the statement.

So with that being said, you kind of did make a reference to Canada and the US, and so you say

that these are a little bit more favorable for us down here in the states than it is for you up there.

And so I know one of the big cards that individuals like down here in the states is like,

no, it's like Chase, and then there's like Capital One. Do you have access for like those type of

cards up there? So as a Canadian, we do have the ability to access American cards, but it's not

a something that I recommend, for example, for Canadians to do until they are well first,

obviously, in the Canadian landscape first. What it basically requires you to do is to do some

paperwork with the US government and stuff to get you the ability to get credit in the states,

because two earlier is that you can have access to American credit cards, but you need to have

access to American credit. And a lot of people who are well nuanced on the Canadian landscape

eventually move on to the next level of accessing American credit cards, because there are

a plethora of different credit cards, including the Chase and Capital One, which are

you know, big ones in the states, and they're very lucrative when it comes to points.

Okay, so I have, I've never thought about this before, so I know down here, you know, we have,

you know, the FICO scores and all those other stuff. So I'm assuming that you all don't have

FICO up there, right? Yeah, like kind of your own kind of credit bureau or scoring model,

is that correct? Yes, we do have our own credit scoring. We don't use the FICO model. We do have

credit scores. I'm not actually not quite sure in the states what the range of the credit score is,

but for us in Canada, it's around 800, 850 is sort of the highest credit score that you can get.

And if you want to pursue, you know, the type of credit cards that you can get lots of

access to different credit cards, you want to be in good standing between 600, 650, if not more,

and you know, people can always build their ability to get up to those type of credit scores.

But yes, we do have credit scores, but it just uses a slightly different system.

Right. Okay, sounds good. So as far as redemption, and so everything's a little bit different.

I literally don't, I'll share probably, at least up at this point, was being my best

use of points last year when I went over to Spain. So I'll share that. But as far as with you,

since you are a black belt when it comes to this, I'd be interested in knowing what you consider

to be like the best redemption that you've had so far as far as being able to find,

you know, where there's a great flight or just kind of a great excursion. What was the best

for different so far if you've gotten? Yeah, I think what I would probably do is preface it

first by saying that not all points are created equal. Okay, not not created equal, got you? Yeah,

yeah, right? So, you know, a one point system in, for example, with one credit card versus a point

system through a store or loyalty card versus a point system through, you know, another credit card,

they all hold different values. So the thing is, is that you want to be able to understand

the point system that you're trying to work with. And obviously, for the purposes of travel,

you know, I look to collect only travel points or adjacent points that I can be using specifically

for travel. So I, you know, there's lots of different, for example, loyalty programs within stores

gas stations and, you know, any retailer you probably go to or, you know, through your bank,

but all that to say is that if your, if your goal is to travel, then, and on points, then you

want to be looking at points programs that are specifically that are going to give you the ability

to do traveling because not all points will give you the ability to travel because lots of people will

get, you know, points that will give you statement credits or you can buy gift cards or you can get

a discount through, you know, an online store or whatever. So you first have to understand

which points program you're interested in. All that to say is that, you know, once you do define

the types of, the type of program that you want and you have the ability to travel with it,

I've gone on some incredible trips being able to maximize the amount of points that I can use for

the furthest I'm going to travel. My general rule is that you're going to get the best value for

your points by going in doing overseas travel and also by being able to be as flexible as you can.

That being with, you know, location, like if you want to go a general continent versus a specific

city and also being flexible on the dates and the times that you go, that allows you to open up

the possibility of going to different places and really maximizing the value of the points that

you're using. So an example is, well, an example is a really bad redemption that I mentioned to you

before was my first trip on points was I paid at that time 183,000 points, American express points

that I redeemed for my trip to, from New York to Qatar to Italy. Now knowing what I know now,

that was absolutely horrible redemption because a lot of people would be like, be able to get

at a much, much better rate for redemption. So for example, I am going to be going to Qatar again

this year and I, for that same flight, I'm going to be flying from Montreal to Qatar and I was only

spending, I'm only spending 70,000 points. Oh wow. It's a huge, you know, difference. So that comes

with, you know, the learning and once you understand how points work, it's an incredible

way to travel because you can just use that sort of those everyday transactions that you're

doing within your life to, you know, consistently collect those points that you can travel in that way.

Yeah, you know, first of all, you know, like I said, extend yourself grace because when we know

better, we do better. So you definitely, you know better now. But the thing is that you may

reference to all points and not create it equal. That is a great point. I guess, no point intended,

but it was a great point. As far as I remember having a credit card at one point and it was a,

it was, it was, it was, it was a credit card and I would go out and look, but these points,

I could use like gift cards. So I'm like, okay, it was okay, but I could not take them and convert

them over to tickets or hotel stays and things like that. Now, granted, could I have taken those

points and maybe got like a gift card and then try to take that gift card to, yeah, there's a lot

of friction and then, you know, you're going to actually lose some value as you kind of keep converting

and doing things like that. So that's a great point as far as all points not being created equal.

And when you make reference to flexibility, it's extremely important because I know right now,

many of the trips that we try to take since we still have school age kids, we have, we don't have

as much flexibility as we like, we have flexibility during the summer. So, you know, we got those,

you know, two and a half months there. But other than like spring break and things like that,

we don't really have a whole lot of flexibility as far as we want to go on these long trips. So

flexibility is extremely important because when you have that flexibility, you can literally just go

look at a points calendar and see, okay, one is the best time to take a flight. You can just go

because you have that flexibility to be able to do that. So that's extremely important. And when

we talk about flexibility, are there any particular tools that you use to navigate as far as how much

a particular trip is going to do, call us when it comes to points, prevent her?

So, it depends on the airline that you're wanting to travel with. And so, for example,

obviously in Canada, the biggest airline program that we have is Air Canada. And so,

Air Canada on their website actually provides airline points rewards charts. And I'll give you

an estimate on how much your, how many points you'll need required for any particular trip.

Now, points values are usually based on the distance of your trip. And if you're going from one

continent to another and in what, in what class of service that you're doing, for example,

if you're going through an economy or business. So, there's lots of different factors that will

sort of give you an estimate in terms of the amount of points that you're going to require to

get onto a flight. The other thing is that some airline programs work on a fixed model in terms

of how many points they're going to be charging. So, for example, you might have a credit card

that utilizes their own travel portal and they'll allow you to take a trip safe from one state

to your neighboring state or from one province to the neighboring province for a fixed value

amount. So, those are fixed redemption rates. But as you get more advanced in travel points,

you'll understand that there can obviously be a range to it, right? It's just like, you know,

airline prices and prices for flights are flexible, like depending on the time of year you want to

go. The cash value of a price for a flight varies a lot, right? Depending on location, dates,

timing. The same thing happens with airline points too and people who want to redeem flights with

points. So, that's based on a dynamic pricing model. So, you know, one day you could be paying

X amount but then you could be paying double the amount because seats are only released

at a certain time of year based on when the flights going and also see availability for particular

points flights is not as much as obviously if you're going to be paying cash. So, there's lots of

different, there's lots of different tools. Again, just getting sort of focused on the type of program

that you want to be working with it will give you the ability to find out how best to redeem those

points. I got you. Well, I know that one of the things that I've done as far as when I

went on my trip last summer is that, you know, I've always used points to some extent but I was

like, I was like, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going deep. I'm trying to do the best I can. So,

one of the things that I did here was that one of the things that will happen sometimes,

at least like with Chase and Capital One, is that they allow some kind of transfer

bonuses to like their, to certain airlines. And so, it just so happens that I was able to do a

transfer from Chase to Virgin because we were going to, so the kind of layout of our trip was

that we were fine from Orlando to London and then we were going to stay there for a few days,

take a train from London to Paris, they there for a few days, train us to Spain, Barcelona,

stay there for a few days, they would take a transit landing cruise back. And so I was like, okay,

how can I try to leverage, you know, these points as much as possible. It just so happens that

they had a 40% transfer bonus from Chase to Virgin. So, I was like, okay, I tied it just right.

And so, I was able to go and I don't know how, how this was possible. It was possible, but literally,

they had one way tickets from Orlando to Heathrow for 12,500 points. And it was four of us. And so,

with the transfer bonus, I think only the transfer like 39,000 points and like that. Now,

granted, I had to pay like a $600 fee, but I was like, no, it's scheme of things. It was great

because a ticket over there, I think was like a thousand dollars by itself. So, the point is

definitely allowed me to do that. And so, I was very proud of that. I know I couldn't necessarily

figure out a way to use points on the cruise, even though I know some individuals who've kind of

done some creative things, but I couldn't figure that out. But all in all, I was pretty proud of that.

So, our next thing that we're working on right now for this summer is actually Japan.

So, we're working on trying to get a trip to Japan, not quite as easy as like the flight from here

to London. I figured out a couple ways of trying to leverage a couple of different strategies right

now. Round trip ticket, I've found to be $85,000 points from Florida to Tokyo and back. So,

that's kind of the lowest I've got. And so, I've done that with a bulk of transfer bonuses and

things like that. And I am using incomplete transparency. I'm using two-player mode. So,

I mean, I'm using my wife to do some points as well around that. Some of that mandatory

spend that we have. We're not doing anything extra. Here's time for us to pay for our property

insurance. And so, we don't, we don't escrow it. I don't know what they call it up in Canada,

but we don't escrow it. So, we have to pay it out of our pocket. And so, we just pay it using

our credit cards. And then we just pay it off. And that meets a lot of our minimum spend there. So,

I will let you know how that goes. And I will definitely run my approach past you to see if it gets

the revender sale of approval. So, I'll definitely do that. And so, let's talk about when it comes

to points. What are some of the big mistakes that you see people make often when using points?

I know one of the things you just kind of shares that individuals don't want to consider all

points as being equal, but are there any other things that you could think of that mistakes people

may when they're first kind of getting into this points traveling game? Yeah, I think like

trying to be everything everywhere in all the different points per programs is probably,

you know, I would consider a big mistake, especially if you're just getting started,

because if you are collecting points just for the sake of collecting points and don't really

have a goal to what you're going to do with those points, then, you know, you can be collecting

points and then find out later that it has really no value towards the goal that you had.

So, that's always the first thing that I would suggest is that, like, learn about, I always talk

about, you know, know what your vision is, know what your goal is. If you're going on your first

points trip, figure out where you're going and, you know, try to work backwards from there. So,

if you're planning a trip, for example, you know, you brought up Orlando and your family wants to

go to Japan, you have an understanding of where you want to get to. So, learn about the programs

that will allow you to get the type of points that you need to get on that type of flight versus

just collecting a bunch of points, you know, through Delta or United or Virgin or whatever, right?

Like, if you have all these points, but you can actually put them towards the actual goal that you have,

then, you know, it really negates the point of even doing that. Also, yeah, so just again,

to focus on one trip at a time, figure out the trip that you want, the type of points that you

need to get on to the flight that you want, and then really hone in on that particular program,

and learning about that program, how you can maximize your earning potential in that system. So,

you know, for example, points aren't just collected by, you know, using your credit card at a store,

you can also get accelerated points, you know, depending on the type of credit card that you have,

you know, you can have credit cards that give you accelerated points if you're spending in

a certain category. So, for example, for groceries or for gas or things like that. So, using the type

of cards that are going to accelerate your ability to gain more points from the same transaction

that you would have done anyways. The other thing too is that there's always opportunities,

again, in the States, there's a lot more opportunities like this, but you alluded to the fact that

there's ways to collect credit card points through not traditionally things that you can't get

points for. For example, you know, paying for your rent, you know, you talk about your property

taxes, things that you traditionally can't pay a credit card for, you can use sort of these third

party payers that allow you to pay by credit card, I think, in the States built, is there

one that all people use. You know, that alone, if you use, if you use built to collect points for your rent,

for when you're paying for your rent, you're going to collect points. So, you're paying that rent

anyways, you're going to pay a nominal fee to use that service, but because of that, you're just

gaining points on the spend that you have to do anyway. So, being able to, you know, to do that.

And then, finally, the other thing that I think that a lot of mistakes, a lot of people make

this mistake is that thinking that points is not a currency. Like with any currency, points,

points devalue mostly, but, you know, they carry different values. So, something that's going to cost

you say, for example, 60,000 points to purchase today and within six months could cost, you know,

100,000 points, you know, a year from now. So, the whole concept of pick up, get the points as

fast as you can, and then actually use them because just hanging onto the points for the sake of

hanging onto them, there's no guarantee that what you think the points redemption required for

that particular trip is going to remain the same because, you know, as with any organization and

any company, rules change all the time. So, you want to take advantage of using the points

for the maximum value when you can. And just going through that sort of earn and burn cycle, right? Like,

gaining the points, using them, gaining them, using them. And when you have that sort of fluid

motion of doing that, then you never have to worry about, you know, your points either expiring

because you're not using them, or they're getting devalued. Yeah, you make a lot of good points there,

Revender. You talk about accelerating certain categories. I know there is, now granted, it's a little,

you know, mental gymnastics that you have to do to try to remember which car you need to use for

whatever thing it is. But it could definitely be beneficial, like friends, if you have particular

credit card, they give you, you know, a larger ability to make points. If you use it for gas,

I know when I'm out on a Friday or Saturday night, if I'm going out to dinner, city,

city paying has to think all city nights. And so whenever you're done on Friday night or Saturday night,

they give you like six time points on what you spend, which is like pretty awesome. So anytime I do it,

I'm like, Hey, I was like, we're going out. It's a city night on Friday Saturday night. So we do

that and also the devaluing that you may reference to points programs always change. And you know,

and something a trip that could have been 20,000 points, like you said, you know, this month might be

50,000 in three months. So you just never know. So you definitely want to get there when you get those

points and try to lock it in when you can cause I don't think I can ever think of there's been a

situation where a points program got less restrictive where all of a sudden you're able like actually

get more from your points. You know, so definitely, as you say, earn and burn is definitely a good

motto because you're not really accruing. It's not like you're earning interest on these points by

them sitting somewhere. And they're truly being devalued. So definitely what you get it,

identify what you want to use it for and go and use it. So that's great. Yeah, and go all in on that

program, right? If you know you have you need a certain type of points, then you know, direct all

your spending or direct everything that you're doing to gain those type of points. Then the ability or

the need to collect points and other programs becomes muted because you should then be just focusing

on that one program. Yeah, that is true. So one of the things and this is my, this is my challenge.

I know for a fact, it's the dismount. What do I mean by the dismount? Revinder. How do you

navigate annual fees on credit cards? I'm assuming that, you know, and this is also based on

assumption. I'm assuming that there are annual fees on cards in Canada. Yes. Okay. So how do you

navigate those calls? Typically, typically, the annual fees are front loaded on the cards. So you

pay it when you get it. But then, you know, you have you go, you do the necessary spend, the minimum

spend to get the bonus or whatever. And say, for instance, you say, you know what, this card was

only good for a season, only really got it because it had like an awesome sign up bonus. So how do you

handle the end of that first year when it comes to those cards? Yeah. So to your point, yes,

there's lots of different credit cards that offer incentives for you to collect that credit card,

right? And so I put those type of credit cards into, I put credit cards basically into two different

categories. One is for the ability to collect a, the welcome bonus that they are going to give you

this huge incentive to, to get their credit card. But also with annual fees, just like there are

annual fees for credit cards, there's lots of credit cards out there that don't have any fees either.

So the reason that annual fees are charged is because they're trying to provide you a service.

And we do, and what we've been talking about a lot is about getting the welcome bonuses and

things like that, the ability to collect a certain type of point. But the other thing that annual fees

also provide is the ability to have lots of different perks for holding that card. And you

know, everything can be, there can be things from insurance benefits, different credits that you

can get through handling that card. You can be getting free check bags if you have like an

airline type of card, lounge access, different types of, different types of reasons why you would

want to hold on to that credit card. So there's credit cards that you get for the reason of just,

I want to get that upfront sort of bonus. And then you figure that you don't want to keep that card

past the first year. And then there's these other types of cards that I call keeper cards.

And they're ones that they may come with a annual fee. And sometimes it's a high annual fee.

But the benefits of holding that card are worth more than what you pay in the annual fee. So

yes, you do get a welcome bonus for having that card in that first year. But the continued

benefits and perks that you get from having that card goes beyond the welcome bonus. And so that

is a reason why I would continue to carry that card. So aside from those, those type of keeper cards

that I have, you know, a stack of ones that I've had for many years. And some of them have high

annual fees. And I will continue to keep them regardless of the annual fee because it presents more

value for me than I am paying in annual fees. There are those other cards that people are

collecting just simply for collecting those welcome bonus points. And so you go through that

same sort of analysis where you need to decide at the end of the year, is it worth it for me to

keep that card card? So that's when you sort of have to figure out, am I just getting that card for

the sake of getting the points at the beginning? Or is there some other value that I can be getting

from that card? So is it providing me some sort of accelerated points category for earning?

Is it providing me some sort of other benefits or offers for collecting that and keeping that card?

If you decide that you don't want to keep the card past, you know, the welcome bonus and

past that first year, you know, the one thing that I do recommend and I give a tip to all your

listeners is that if you've made a decision that you don't want to keep that card,

don't cancel that credit card as soon as you've gotten the benefit out of that card. For example,

if you've gotten a credit card just for the sake of getting a welcome bonus, say you've collected

your welcome bonus within say three months of opening that credit card, do not make the mistake

of closing that card in the fourth month, just saying, oh, I don't want that credit card anymore.

Because obviously credit card companies know, you know, the whole point of offering you these

incentives is that they want you to retain these cards and hopefully keep them year after year.

But if there is a pattern of where people are opening and closing credit cards,

it's not good for your credit score and B, it's also something that credit card companies

are very attuned to and it does not reflect well on someone who's constantly opening and closing

cards just for the sake of collecting points. So, you know, go through, go through that analysis

to decide if you want to keep a credit card past the first year and if you do make the decision

that you don't want to keep the card after the first year, wait as close as you can to the end

of the term of that credit card, don't do it, you know, early into the term of that credit card

because it will flag you as someone who's sort of churning and, you know, you don't want to have

that reflection on your credit score because, you know, it'll affect your ability to get credit cards

in the future. Well, thank you for that. I know one of the things that I do is that when I get a card,

one of the biggest, one of the best tools I use is a calendar reminder.

And, literally, I get it and I'm like, okay, well, what's 11 months out. So, I go ahead and I have that

because if not, I'll miss it, especially because the card that I got for a particular purpose

is not like I'm looking at my card a whole lot, I'm not using it anymore. So, it can be literally

six months and I have not touched that card. So, you definitely want to just do something that I

set up reminders to do that. And as you say, you know, I like the keeper card concept because I have

certain cards that I have kept because I've ran the numbers and the annual fee is outweighed by

the benefits that I get from it. So, I have this one credit card. It's an ISC credit card. It's not

a fancy card at all. I originally got it when I first started trying to learn about using credit

card points and trouble points. And I think they offered, I don't know, maybe like five days,

it was like a couple thousand dollars spent. So, I did it. And so, I kept the card and reason I keep

the card that there's a $45 a year fee. But I get a reward night every year. So, I'm like, I can't get

a reward night from $45. I can't get a hotel night from $45. I just keep it. But then there's like

another card. I have a capital one card. The capital one card gives me, it's like a little bit more

than $195. But I get $300 worth of spend in the portal now. Some other people will say,

I don't know if it's worth it, but I get $300 worth of spend in the portal. I get 10,000 points

every year. But it also comes with a priority pass. So, I get Lounge access. So, I'm like, okay,

that's the one for me because I like where I am traveling. I like being able to go to Lounge. So,

you just really want to, as you said, look at the benefits from the card. If you're sure as though

the annual fee is less than the actual benefit that you get from it, you definitely want to go ahead

and keep those cards if you can. And then one one one thing I will say to that too is that,

you know, what I value versus what you value are two completely different things, right? So,

it's really, you know, it's really important that you take a look at your own personal situation.

And if it's a value to you and that includes the redemption of a flight, you know, for me,

I have now chosen to fly overseas in business class at any time that I can. But for other people,

you know, maybe people, families with small children, their whole thing is not to fly in business

class, but just to get four economy seats because they have now not have to pay for that. So,

I take, I take the whole conversation of points with a grain of salt in that like your situation

in my situation can be completely different, right? So, as long as it's a value to you personally,

you don't need to worry about what other people say. And the other thing that I just wanted to also

mention too was about, you know, when you are making the choice to not keep a card,

there are opportunities again in the States. This is more lucrative. But if you are sort of on the

fence about whether or not you want to keep a card or not past the first year, it can be simply

just giving the credit card company a call and sort of, you know, letting them know that, you know,

you're considering canceling it. And sometimes that conversation will turn into the company offering

you sort of either another welcome bonus or a retention offer bonus where they will entice you

enough to keep the card past the first year. So, there's no harm in, you know, having that

conversation whether it's through the credit card portal or the chat or simply giving them a call

because if you are on the fence, if they give you a sweet enough offer for you to keep it a second

year, then why wouldn't you do that? Yeah, no, that's definitely a great idea. I know that it's

getting around that time for me on a couple of credit cards that I have to have to reach out and

call someone about them to see what I'm going to do. So, definitely want to do that. And part of

the reason why I wanted to have you here for this conversation with vendor is that many individuals,

as they start to think about early retirement or have already retired, they say, okay, well, I want

to travel. But if I don't have a job, how can I make it, how can I optimize around being able to

travel as cost effectively as possible? One of the biggest things that you can do is to use points

for travel because you now have a lot of flexibility because you're not working traditional hours. So,

allows you to be able to go around and do a lot of things. So, you can really get the most bang

for your book when it comes to traveling with points. So, I know that there is a lot of nuance

to travel points. There's a lot of best practices and things like that. So, we can't all squeeze it in

here. But definitely, I know that you and I see a lot of the content that you put out,

Revender, for those who are listening or watching who want to connect and kind of follow some of the

tips and strategies that you're putting out there around points. What's the best way for them to

follow you? Yeah, so, I am not a social media queen in that I am not on all the different channels,

but my main channel is on Instagram. So, I'd love for you to come check it out at the travel points

rebel. Okay, that is the travel points. Rebel has points within S. And also, we want to let you know

that Revender takes these great trips and she documents them out there on Instagram. So, definitely

want to go out there and follow her. And so, with that being said, I want to thank you Revender

for your time here. It's been very informational on how individuals, if they have the appropriate

discipline, they can leverage points to get trips that they may have never thought they would be

able to afford. So, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge around that. I'm going to

get ready to sign off here, but as always, I want to ask you if you have not subscribed to the

YouTube channel that you would do so, also that if you are listening to us on podcast,

platform that you will follow there. And as always, I am Nick Johnson and I'm going to remind you

to trust the process. Have a great day. Great. Thank you.