Smoking Asparagus w/ Jordan Harper

0:00We are in, we were never out though. No. You know, just the thing we devoted our life to is out and no one cares anymore. And several categories is the great thing. Isn't that fun? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just keep picking things that they move to the dustbin of history. Oh, it's like, what's next? Radio? We're going to write radio plays. In the Morse code. I'm just like, semi-forsk? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, dude. Let the people know. We have the absolute pleasure of our guest today, the one and only. Jordan Harper, everyone. And you guys might know him best because I've been talking about his most recent novels, Everybody Knows and Violent Masterpiece on this podcast. And now we have a mirror. And I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Dude, how cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool for everyone. I'm enjoying it. Cool for me too. Okay. All right. I believe it. You can always tell the guys not lying when he says exactly what you hoped he did. You know, no, you're good.

1:01Why would I be hating it? I don't know. I did tell him. I was like, look, you need to be driving this go-ship. So we don't get lost in the weeds of like writing and or jerking each other off. Okay. Okay. I'm fair. So he's here to be a proxy for, you know, what might be boring? You know? So he shakes keys or like zaps me with the taser he has. That's why. We have to sub jerking each other off the top. Pretty much. Yeah. Or make more eye contact while we do it. There you go. That's it. That is hotter. The human element is really what sells the lost. Getting lost. Yeah. So yeah. So let me see if I can just real quick. American Death Songs. Yes. That's the first one. Yeah. You can't find it anymore. That's because I self-published it. You did. That's my self-published short story collection. Okay. Because I didn't think there was a market for short stories. And hey, you were right. I was right. Yeah. I was correct. Then my agent who I have a legendary agent is in his netsoble. Okay. He was James O'Roy's agent. He was Eddie Bunker's agent. Oh, what? Yeah. He was Joseph Womba's agent at one point.

2:02He's like this lion of crime fiction. Yeah. Agentry was able to sell a crime fiction short story collection. I don't know how he did it. But yeah. But American Death Songs. I did all myself. I hired the book designer. Yeah. I'm very proud of it. Because the cover is like a black and white photo of a biker. It's badass. It's badass. I've tried to buy it so many times. I'm like thrift books or Abe's books, dude. You got one? I've got one extra copy. Well, I don't want it. You need to hold that in the archives. I mean, I have one extra. Okay, cool. Yeah. But as you can see, the dude's armpit hair. Yeah. The thing I've never seen a book with armpit hair on it. Yeah. It felt like that sells. This is like a dangerous book. It's a man's armpit. That's right. But I was, it's identical almost to Love Another Wounds, which is the published short story collection. Okay. Okay. So Love Another Wounds is great. And then there's um, She Ride Shotgun, which was actually initially published as like violent lesson or something. That's the British title. Okay. They wouldn't publish it to the She Ride Shotgun

3:02because they felt like British people didn't know what it is. We understand. Which I went along with at the time. I would argue now because I'd say like what's a reservoir dog. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like titles don't have to make sense. Not in the least. No. No, especially because no one reads books anymore. So that's the big issue. No. Is any logic that we apply to trying to trick people in reading a book? Have you seen what's happening with Mr. Beast? That him and Patterson wrote a book together. And they came out and guess what? Less than 10,000 sold. Four digits. Whoa. That's the only number that's gotten out. Is it's four digits and everyone's very disappointed. And he's given away a million dollars. He's not going to save male reading. What the hell? I thought that dream team of that wig wearing mutant and you know, the devil himself would save reading. What? Somebody said to me, you know, like his TV show was a success on Amazon. Somebody said to me it was because I hired him to be Mr. Beast. Mm-hmm. It was like if they had made a TV show where Mr. Beast played a lawyer, nobody's going to watch that show.

4:04Or if he was like a wacky janitor who's like, wife was always giving him guff. He does. With blinding teeth. Oh, sure. Huge dude. Yeah. Oh. That's what death looks like. Death definitely has veneers. And that's the. And that's stairs. The stairs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not quite lazy, but like one eye is decidedly thinking about murder. And the other one is just there. There's two wolves in him. Yeah. Yeah. And they're both thinking of patricite. Yeah. Okay, so Jordan, we just met. Yeah. That's official, right? But yeah, I've been up your skirt for a while, man. Your shit rules. I really dig the Aryan Brotherhood gang that you created. Zymor. Right. What are they? That's something of steel. Aryan steel, dude. Aryan steel, dude. And I love lore, right? Because I love comic books. So when Aryan steel appeared and then came back and was the crux of last king of California sick, like I was geeked as a fan of yours to be like,

5:04oh, we get to learn about these badass dudes, you know? So that was cool. And that's the thing about reading, guys, is like, there's all these really cool books about like Aryan biker gangs and them running meth through inland California. And guess what? It's bad to the bone or how about Daniel Woodrow? Oh, that motherfucker. That motherfucker. I, you know, RIP. Okay, he's, I didn't realize he passed. Yeah, he died maybe six months ago. I don't even know he was sick. Yeah. And but you're talking about like Winters bone. Yeah, Winters bone, death of sweet mister, tomato red. Wode live on. Wode live on. Reading that for the first time right now. Sick. It is sick. It takes place in the Civil War. It's all about like the, you know, I'm from Missouri. And when everybody else had the Civil War, Kansas and Missouri just had it with each other. Yeah, yeah, burning Kansas. Yeah, burning Kansas. You know, they killed, they sacked Lawrence Kansas. They killed. I'm going to make this number up, but it's around this. 153 people like the James gang, Quantwell's Raiders, they lined up like 153 men and killed them all.

6:04And the reason I'm pretty sure I'm right about that number is I went to the University of Missouri. And when University of Missouri and Kansas state would play each other, yeah, people would hold up signs that would say Missouri 153, Kansas zero. Awesome. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, it sucks. We were on the wrong side. Hey, man, that's still a pretty cool thing to fly. It's like, I mean, you got it. I mean, you owned. It's like, I mean, it's the, Pony, it's just like you would say. Yeah. As kids who aren't kids anymore. Right. Yeah, as grown man, with mortgages would say back then. Dude, that's so good. Yeah, because I remember I wrote a song in high school about I had a crush on this girl. And her, her like boyfriend lived in Lawrence. So my punk band The Mongols had a song called Burning Kansas. And it was all about my want to raise and destroy and reduce the entire state to ashes again. Yeah, man, that's cool stuff. Because I'm from Eastern Colorado. So like all of that was our history too. We were just broken up by Kansas right there. By Kansas, by that long drive. Oh god. I used to, when I was living in Missouri,

7:06or I was living in Colorado, I lived in Boulder, Colorado, for a little while. I was dating a girl who lived in Missouri in Kansas City. That was a long drive. That's a drive you only make when you're in your 20s. And the horny. Yes. You guys are so horny to get through Kansas. Levels of horny that I'm not capable of achieving any longer. Like, yeah, like they name sins about how horny you are. Yeah, that's just not needing to fill the gas tank. Just like, dude. Oh, right. Or no. Yeah, it's like Red Bull and Hope. Put all that thing runs on. Exactly. God. Okay, so you grew up in Missouri. Where in Missouri? Springfield, Missouri, which is like the big city of the Ozark. The listeners know because every time I've been back to that comedy club for the last five years, I've been doing this pod six years now. I've said, I'm never fucking going back there. And then 12 months later, guess who's back on the calendar. You got to do it. Well, you got to, my buddy, Zach, who's one of my best friends, who grew up with. He goes and sees you there. Yeah, yeah, shut up, Zach. He gave you a nice care package. Yeah, that's right. That's very nice. And so, yeah, you got to keep going for him. Or, you know, I love to keep a fuck on him

8:06if it's like, you know, Springfield. No, no. Now it's under new management. Oh, well, no. And the boy king who ran it was this guy named Chrisco. Do you know, Chrisco? No, it's his, of course, his name Chrisco. Man, so old Chrisco, who got his name because he was the only rollerblading DJ in all of Western Missouri. Well, since I left. Well, fair enough. Sorry, you know, I forgot that statue. They cut your head off. Yeah. But yeah, so anyway, he like, like, I don't know, blank checked his way into running a comedy club. Yeah. Because after like a bus, like a city bus hit him. And then he was like, you know, different. Adam Sandler movie. It he dude, you couldn't be like, closer to the truth of this guy. He had like a whimsical boy king nature and the whole city was rooting for him. Mm-hmm. So they were like, what can we do that he can't hurt anyone? Give him the comedy club. So they ran it out of the the outland. Is that the name of that? Yeah, yeah, the outland. Yeah. With the worst staircase in the history of underage drinking. I, yeah, that, that, that sounds, that sounds right. Those kids would get wasted. Missouri states there.

9:07And then they'd come up that staircase that was like, probably an 85 degree angle. And the kid you just hear him tumble down. Like over and over all night just, yeah. That's true. So were you educated where? Not well. I went to the University of Missouri. Cool. In Columbia, right? Yeah. Yeah. And Columbia's Middle East. The deja vu. The deja vu. Great comedy club. Yeah. This is what happens when you're a comedian. Yeah. Yeah. The shittiest place in every city in America. Brother, I've had fun in St. Joe and Joplin. All right. The only place I haven't had fun. Fucking Ford Smith. All right. I was in Joplin. My band played Joplin two weeks after the tornado. Wow. I would have rather been there again than ever go back to Ford Smith, Arkansas. Joplin is a punk rock town. For sure. Yeah. My older brother ran the punk rock club in my hometown called Harper's Bizarre. Oh, cool. And so there would be a lot of crossover and we'd go see shows in Joplin. Yeah. And then people from there would come over there. Yeah, that's a punk rock town. So I'm not surprised you play there. Oh, I mean, where else are you going to play in that part of America?

10:07I mean, yeah. Springfield was so transient because there'd be punk houses in Springfield. But when the kids would graduate, then the house dissolved. So you'd have to be like a cool. That was the issue with most of booking yourself on book your own fucking life and my space back then. You would finally get the email for the cool punk house. But then that guy went to jail and his wife didn't want to run it anymore because their dogs were sick. You wouldn't get a play at Poison Law in Knoxville anymore. Anyway, so you're there. You're learning. You're inspired. Yeah. You're in Columbia. Yeah, I don't know if I'd put learn. I went college there. You attended where the knowledge came from. Now, you know, I mean, I was always a reader. I was always. So let's start there. Yeah. What did you first fall in love with? Like first books you were like, fuck yeah. I genuinely, Harriet the spy. Awesome. Awesome. My first book that I remember just that the great brain books. Yeah, yeah. Which that's why there's a male literacy crisis.

11:07They're not handing out the great brain books to kids anymore. That's it. Those books were incredible. It was. And they were all said, like turn of the century you taught. And these kids, when we talk about how now Gen X had it wild compared to what kids have now, these kids and the great brain books were like going out for four days without talking to their parents, catching and killing their own food. Yeah, yeah. There was like hatchet kind of shit. Yeah, like one of the kids loses a leg in one of the books because he stepped on a nail. Yep. There's another one where they meet a kid who has diabetes and then the kid dies. Well done. They didn't have insulin back then. Yeah, those, Tom Sawyer. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then there was this like biography of Crazy Horse that I reread over and over again when I was in elementary school. That's another thing about I'm like, I'm a chronic rereader. Like I always like obsessively reread books. Really? Yeah, I have rarely ever done that. I've reread Blood Moridian, I've reread Angels, I reread It from time to time because I love It. But yeah, I've never been one of those guys that like highlights or dog ears or like notates.

12:09Like it's not necessarily even that. I just reread. Wow. And then like I just like to let it soak. And apparently it's a ADHD and anxiety are both things that aid to rereading. Wow. But I really think it's one of the reasons like I have like a pro style is like starting with those books and then moving into Stephen King and Hunter S. Thompson. Thompson was a big one. Yeah. Then James Elroy and Cornett McCartney. Did you wear a visor? I never wore a visor. I did try in college. I tried to figure out. Sure, sure. We all did. We all did. It reeks. It smells so bad. It drips into like wet nicotine drips into your mouth. Yeah. It's the worst. Like this is an affectation, my man. Like you cannot tell me Hunter S. Thompson enjoyed that. It doesn't drip as much in a dry climate. That's fair. So an elevation Hunter probably got away with it. But yeah, like when you wouldn't change the filter inside that thing and then you'd take it out and it was just a black slug. It would like stain your hands. Yeah.

13:09Yeah. Have you ever do that? Yeah, they're gross. Yeah, we all did it. Yeah. Of course we all did it. Yeah, yeah. It was like a classic male affectation. Yeah, like somewhere like after you did the hand rolled cigarette. That's right. Yeah. And then he went through clothes. Clothes. American spirits. Sure. Yeah. Now you're just a grown man who needs some Winston's. Yeah. But you're still one everyone to know. You're not following all the rules. That's right. Yeah. That fuck you. I won't do what you tell me. Like a camel wide. Oh, brother or camel red. Yeah, I smoke filter 99s. Yeah. But the on the wides are rough. There's something about it being that much bigger in the airflow that just like smoking his bear again. Yeah. And it's harsh. It hurts. It hurts sucking on a fucking exhaust pipe. But you're like, I'm a man and this is bad. Well, what's worse than bad? More bad. Yeah. So I'll smoke a fat boy. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so you didn't have the visor. But Hunter, obviously, my dad crammed him down my throat. Yeah. And it wasn't fear and loathing. It was fear and loathing on the campaign trail.

14:10And it was the Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved. That is, you know, because I read all of them, you know. Yeah, yeah. And to how invested I was in the 1970 election election, which was before I was born. And I can talk to you about Ed Muskie and how he cried. Yeah. Why do I need to know that? He was so good at writing it. Somehow it was fast. Even as a 12 year old boy, you're like, yeah, we got to do something. We got to do something about Muskie. Yeah. He's going to drag the party to the right. Stubbs turquoise, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK, so cool. I love that shit too. Obviously, what you're going to call it, the Hell's Angel book, is like the best. Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. Just, you know, he also, he didn't just reread. He would sit there and his book was the great Gantz. Right. He just typed it out over and over. Yeah. And I tried that with him. I tried to type him out. Everybody's brain's different. Like, that's like a big writing thing for me. It's like, whatever works works.

15:10Yeah, yeah. And like, I wanted to get the Hunter S. Thompson Mojo, but I don't do it the way he did it. Yeah. And I just did it by reading all of those books, like dozens of times, literally dozens of times. I mean, I'm for sure of read the Hell's Angels book, at least five times, but never dozens. That's, that's, I mean, that's, again, there's no wrong way to do it. Oh, you just got to feed your brain what it wants. Sure. Yeah. And how it wants it. Yes. Like, learn your machine. How do you get the fuel into it? Like, yeah, that's all good shit. Did you, you read a lot of Hunter? Yeah. Yeah, in high school. Yeah. Yeah. It was really so cool. And then obviously, like, we had those movies, like, come out, be ready close, and that was sick. OK. So the rereading thing, maybe I'll, yeah. Because like with Hunter, he would type it. And it was like muscle memory. Yeah. And it's like, this is how you, the physicality of like, how you write a great American novel. This is what it feels like. Right. Yeah. That's cool. Now for me, it's, it's like getting the language and the rhythms to soak in. And you want to be careful, because you don't want to do that

16:12and then just produce. Yeah, you don't want to rip them off. You don't want to rip them off. Yeah. So I read, like, I read a lot of James Elroy, but I don't read James Elroy when I'm near the end of something. Sure. Yeah. Because that's when, like, I'll start to like, oh, dude, I read Robert Sones, dog soldiers, as I was writing this. Yeah. The end of this book, boy, how do you, is it just dog soldiers? I didn't get as like masturbatory and do 30 pages of that shit. But like, there's definitely like a fever dream aspect to the end of this book. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I was reading dog soldiers. Damn, and that's OK. Like, you know what? I think the thing is, is like, I am for sure going to, that's why I can't watch standup. Yeah. I can't watch standup, man, because like, you're watching standup. And the next thing you know, like, there was a joke in my last special. That it was like, this kid hit me up and he's like, fuck, man, that line's mine. And I was like, oh, my God, you're the kid from Maine. I remember coming up to you after you fucking told that joke and saying, great joke. It was one line. I only had used it as a tag.

17:12But still, I sent him $1,000 on Venmo. And I was like, I am so sorry. I am ashamed. You can tell anyone you want about this, but just know that like, it was not intentional. And I'm so sorry. And he was like, thank you so much for the $1,000. That joke wasn't really doing me much. And I was like, yeah, but still, this is like the worst thing someone could do. No, that's the right thing to do. And I know I have done that in my life. I'm sure there are lines that like, for sure. I would say, so I do my first drafts handwritten. Really? Yeah. You psycho. Well, they're not, I just, I talk a lot about like, oh, I write really shitty first drafts. Yeah. But that's, and that's true. Okay. Really shitty first drafts, but I was looking at it the other day. And I'm reading a lot of poetry recently. Yeah. A bandly poetry. Yeah, for sure. And a cheever. Frank Stanford. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't he one of those Michigan guys? No, he was from like Arkansas. Then I don't know who you're talking about. Oh, yeah, he died when he was like 27, but he written a like, uh, 50,000.

18:14And word, unpunk-uated poem called the battlefield where the moon says I love you. Fuck. And a bunch of other poetry besides. Let me make you mad when a guy dies at 26 and leaves behind like a burning star of literary light. Yeah. It's like that guy, Bruce DJ Pancake in West Virginia. Yeah, it's like, what the fuck? Just like you animal. Some people it's easy. I know. And bless him. Hey, everyone. As Jordan's been saying, it's really hard to sell books in this current climate. So why not pre-order mine? Brute. Available September 22nd. And why Sam? Because you want all the money, right? You craving pig? Yeah. Wrong. They already gave me some money. I'm never going to earn all that money back. Unless I sell some books. So why do I want you to buy them if I'm not going to benefit it? Because I want my ego. I want to be on the best seller list. That's all. Just one week. I want to be able to do a put on my future books, New York Times best seller. Because it's good for business. So you guys think there's some grand scheme and I'm manipulating you. No. I am in this business and I would like to continue to be in this business.

19:15He just wants accolades. Yeah, that's all. I just want my soul stroked off. That's it. Duh. God. Do you guys think I'm a monster? No. I'm a ghoul. So yeah, just get Brute. It's awesome. Get Jordan's books. Guys, the man he left just moments ago. Yeah, he ruled. I was like giddy. Yeah. I think I did a couple like giggles because I was like, you're so funny. He rocked. He was great. And then come see us in Milwaukee. Come see us in Winnipeg, Cleveland, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, governors of Long Island, Brooklyn, Manchester, Connecticut, Denver, Philadelphia, Royal Oak. That's where we're going to be for the rest of the year. And you can get your tickets from samtowent.com, punch up live, whatever you want. Book events. People have been asking. We are the 22nd at the Barnes and Noble in Chicago on State Street, the post on the 21st in Detroit. Go bananas, comedy corner, right down there in Cincinnati on the 23rd of September. And then we're going into Cleveland. And then the next week we're in Bloomington on the 30th doing a book event there at Becker.

20:17Do you know? I don't know. Why would you? I do. My phone's the camera. It's Morgan Stern books. That's right. Evening with Sam Talent Wednesday 6 p.m. go there, get on the Patreon. A lot of great apps says Lund would say, you know, and we love you guys. Thank you. Yeah. But I've come to understand my rough drafts. When I say they're like poetry, I don't mean, oh, it's so beautiful. It's like poetry. I mean like, it's just about like what I want the mood to be images that come to me that I think would be good in the scene. And I'm not thinking like it's a poem. I think like, why can't I write a scene? It's because I have like ADHD and my brain doesn't do it. But when I come back to it, I can make it into something. Yeah. They're just like, they're just poems. And I'm so glad I figured that out because it made me feel better about myself. But I do it all handwritten. And I just think like whatever works. I don't, if somebody else tries it and doesn't work, it's like, yeah, man.

21:20Because I'm listening to you. And I'm over here with my process, which is immaculate first drafts that if I were to die, they could publish them and I wouldn't be embarrassed about anyone finding them. That's my thing. I'm not joking. Yeah. Every book I've ever written, there is a point in the process. I literally have the thought, okay, now if I die, it's going to be okay. Okay. Yeah. But I have to get there. I don't live there. Oh, I live in that because I don't want it to even be like 20 pages left off of it without, like if I die in the middle of it, they need to know that this motherfucker was cooking. And he was an unparalleled genius. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, I would love to be much more, I don't outline. I'd have no fucking idea where anything's going when I start. Yeah. And it's just like these organic choices, like the characters I discover them is like, go, like what the fuck is their deal. But I would love to have sketches, what you're describing of, this is just 12 words that are this chapter, but it's the vibe. This is the setting, this is the scene, this is the crux, this is the lighting, like, that

22:21kind of sounds like the poetry. It's like a poem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would fucking love to have some map that I'm able to sketch in the sand. Like, that sounds beautiful. It work, I mean, I also, I do note card outlines, this is close to get to outlining, like, on the wall. No, no, I mean, I come from, I did a lot of TV writing. Yeah, yeah. TV writing, you have to, because the course that you want to check your work, you have to do it like that. Sure, yeah, they don't trust you. But it's good because I think if I didn't outline, and I wrote these chapters the way I'm describing, it would just be like a pile of mud. Sure, sure. So I have to have some kind of writer to drape the very soft meat on, you know. But yeah, it's like whatever works, and I get up, I got up at 5.30 this morning. Yeah. And that's when I wrote. Really, you're a morning guy. Oh, yeah. And I write until like 3 a.m. I cook, because I did stand up for so long. So my brain's active at 7 p.m. on. Like that's for real. Like I lock in at 7 at like last Friday, I was off for my wife's birthday. Yeah. It was 7, like it was like 6.45 on Friday, and I was like driving us to dinner, and I was

23:22like, she's like, what's up? And I was like, I don't know, man. And then like as I drove, I was like, oh, I'm waking up. I have show anxiety. Every Friday of my entire life, I've supposed to be at the club right now. And my body's like, what's going on? So I would much rather wake up, coffee, sun coming in, birds, my brains fucking cranking. That's so much more romantic than what I do. Yeah, I get, it's just what works. Yeah. What do I mean? It's just, my dog is still asleep, my girlfriend's still asleep. I have, it's a quiet period of time. You don't have those bitches, you know, that's what I'm saying. Oh, bro. Yeah. And black rifle coffee. Put it in the note. Yeah. And I've retained my seam, and of course, I'm ready to go. Yeah, you're throbbing. But it's just, it's just what work. And I didn't set an alarm this morning to get up at 5.30. Like I just got up at 5.30, and it was still dark, so I checked my clock, be like, oh,

24:23shit. And I also wake up in a mile panic. Okay, sure, yeah. Yeah. Come to screaming. Yeah. Because that guy's a problem. Yeah. And so thankfully it was like, because the worst is when that happens to you and it's 3.30. Right. And you're all the way awake. Yeah. Because you already had that moment of panic when you're like, cool. Cool. Cool. I'm going to stare at the ceiling. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Another day fucked. Yeah. Yeah. And that is true. Yeah. It's over. It's over. Yeah. Right after lunch. Yeah. And that's like me. It's like, what am I going to do? Right? Well, the sun's up. Impossible. But it's like, it's whatever. Where I, you ever like check yourself into a hotel room and Ryan. I did that once in Florida. Yeah. I did that. I got a day rate hotel room, and I locked in for like 36 hours. But the issue was is that whenever I opened up the blinds, there was just a jam and pool party going on like 24-7.

25:25So it was really hard to like lock in, not accidentally go outside at all. But yeah, I have, I like the one when you go to like, like, Lyman, Colorado. I went to Lyman, Colorado for like five days and wrote in an awful hotel room, motel. There was no distractions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I recently did it in 29 palms, which is past Joshua tree. Okay. Like the only thing past 29 palms is literally a high white sign that says no service 100 miles. You know, you're like on the edge of it. And it was a hotel literally one night because it was a little boutique hotel where the workers went home at night. I was the only person in the hotel. Oh, yeah. Totally. And it's just like, well, I bet there are cameras here that are going to stop me from swimming naked in the pool. But like, you could have just envisioned the erotic thriller. Yeah. When the next room next year, it gets filled with a couple and they're fighting. Yeah. But she's beautiful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But then she stopped screaming. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she talks and you're doing this blood honor.

26:25Is it her blood? I don't know. Yeah, exactly. All there is is now. Yeah. And we're in the pool anyway. So blood's washing off. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's pinking. It's pinking the water. It's like a sunset. But let's talk about that. So you are a beautiful pro stylist, by the way. I was not only, I read that the most recent one in like 36 hours. I crushed it, bro. And I read it with a lot of like, this motherfucker is having fun. Yeah. Were you having fun? I was having fun. Right. Dude, you were fucking swinging your dick around, man. There's times when you know. Yeah. You know, like, there's times when you're in the groove. It seemed like you knew every sentence was a heater, dude. I mean, I work, you know, that shit is not easy. Yeah. The whole trick, I'm sure it's like, so the stand-up's got to be the same thing. It's to make it look easy. Yeah. You just thought of that. Right. But no, I'm not. It's not sweaty, dude. You're not sweaty. You're not trying too hard on the page. Like, you're really just like, it's confidence and it's awesome. Thank you. Like, when someone's locked in and you're like, all right, man, all right. I fucking believe that you have this swagger.

27:26And I got that from all of your shit. Well, and, you know, especially this way, I mean, when I made the decision to name it a violent masterpiece. Awesome. Which is like, hubris. I earn it in the book like I was going to use the phrase. Yeah. That's not where the title came from. The title came from, I was at a, like, a little book stand at a crime fiction convention. And I found a copy of the actual Hammett's Red Harvest, which is another book that you, you, you, men should read. Uh, and it was like this is great 70s paperback edition, like bright red with a man standing over a dead woman's body. I just said in big letters, dash all hammets, violent masterpiece, red harvest. And I was looking at it and it's like, I want my cover to say a violent masterpiece. Yeah. Hey, you can name a book anything you want, you know, and it works. But it also, yeah, it's also like, oh, there's swagger. Yeah. But you earned it. Yeah. So, uh, I, you know, there's obviously you pick up a book like that and you're like, you're calling it a violent masterpiece, huh? All right. Well, let's figure out why he's wrong about this in every way, you know?

28:28Exactly. So, like, I cracked it with the kind of like a, all right, the last one was pretty cool. And I love the lore, like I said. So, you expanding in that book, they're built on each other. Yeah. Did you know going in that you were going to do too? Yeah, I did. And, and, and theoretically a third. Okay. Yeah. But I know what the third one is that I planted from the beginning of the first book. Dude, the danch nighter shit, like allegedly, allegedly, I don't know who that is, but you know. I don't either. Well, he, uh, he'll never mind. But, uh, there's a lot of really cool stuff. If you're a person who, um, was early on, um, whatever elaborate matrix of sexual exploitation, pick your poison here in America. Yeah. There's a lot of like, just, I want to say Easter eggs. But that makes it sound like, you know, you're a fan of the genre. But, you know, if you're, if all that, uh, all that exploitation, all the, uh, the, the power that actually runs the world, uh, this motherfucker really makes a meal out of it.

29:29And I really recommend those books, yeah. And it's interesting to say that there's just something specific about those of us who are into Epstein pre-New York arrest. Yeah, yeah. And I really think like those are like, because I was Franklin scandal motherfucker. Yeah. And, and like, oh, I've got one. I'm not to go too far field here. Please. Jared from Subway. Oh, boy. We have put that one in the, in the drawer. Like, you know, he's, I don't know exactly when, but he's approaching release. I know. It's like been long enough now. Uh-huh. Who's going to get the rights, Jordan? Did you know that he filed an appeal at one point while he was in prison saying, I'm a sovereign citizen. What? And therefore cannot be convicted in a court of law. He tried the sovereign citizen. No way. Yeah. I'm, I'm not a corporation. That was his defense. I'm not a person. I'm a logo. Yeah. Leave me alone. I have a right to travel. But that's, you know, what I always say about like Epstein, like the least conspiratorial version of it that we all agree is true. Yeah. As this guy had to sexually abuse hundreds of girls twice before they were going to be anything approaching consequences.

30:33Right. Like everybody knows that it's true. And by the way, everybody assumes he would have gone down in New York. Oh. We don't know that. No. Like what you mean where they might have the most bullwarks against anyone being held accountable. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. For New York always loves to make celebrities pay. Yeah. Exactly. For sure. I am the like, you know, like I don't, like my, even my next LA book is not going to be about like the perverts. Yeah. Um, it's still going to be Hollywood and Sleeves and all that stuff. Because I got tired of being the guy that people would text pervert expert. You understand that. He calls me girl. I call him girl target because it's a fun nickname. But like, you know, people were like texting me during the, the P. Diddy trial. Yeah. Like guys, I'm not watching this. Like I'm not. Yeah. This is not like a hobby of mine. It's just I was obsessed with Epstein from the very early. One caught me. One thing I saw made me want to do a bunch of research.

31:33It's not my passion. Yeah. Exactly. And I, you know, I write about violence. Like that's the one thing I always do. And American violence specifically. Um, that's a good title. American violence. American violence is a pretty good title. I've already have a book with the word violence in it. But there's no laws. I think it's a cursive album already. Oh, is it? Could be. It sounds like Midwest emo. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, you know, and, and the, like, I worked in Hollywood for 15 years. Yeah. And so you were, you were working on that side first before the success and literature. Yeah. I mean, I was writing short stories. There's a, uh, uh, there's a website, uh, called Thuglet. Yeah, I know Thuglet. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. Back in the day, Todd, my friend Todd Robinson, published me, published essay Cosby. Yeah, Frank Bill. Yeah, Frank Bill. Yeah, yeah. I think I read a lot of people in that era. We all owe it to Todd and, uh, what's his name, Donald? I think the first, uh, fucking, you know, uh, devil all the time, knock him stiff. I think the first, I think I read a knock him stiff shory on Thuglet.

32:35That could be. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that was a cool one. Yeah. But, um, you know, I said I was doing that, um, before I got into TV, um, in fact, I don't want to go to, um, this isn't a Hollywood general meeting, but like, I turned one of my short stories into a spec script, um, uh, which is where you write an episode of TV that already exists. So I wrote a shield episode. Oh, sick dude. Shield rule. Me and my dad after my mom died went in on the shield. Best TV show of all time. All time. We feel it's my number one. I just did a rewatch. Okay. It's aged even better. I should rewatch it. Yeah. I watched it two years ago all the way through. You know, they try to like, they try to like kind of balance it. Like is Vic Mackie's sociopath or is he a good guy? Right. Yeah. I was with, now it's like, oh, he, he had two kids with autism, they want you to feel bad. He had two kids with autism. They get involved in an anti-vax lawsuit at some point, which is actually incredibly accurate. Like of course the cop is anti-vax. Yeah, it's Kreci and someone says, yeah, I don't think they knew it. I think somebody on the staff actually was anti-vax.

33:36That's my assumption. That makes sense. Because that's how they play it. It was like, there are real questions about Mercury and these, you know. Yeah. But it just plays so, uh, I love that show. Anyway, that's how I broke in. I wrote a nice combination of its great TV, but it's also never boring. Never boring. Never fucking boring. And yes, it's a bit ham-fisted, and it's a bit cartoonish. Sure. But that was more of a symptom of that era of television. But I like that era of, I like, it's pulp. Is what it is. It's pulp, but it's also kind of, it exists and I think the same universe as like the Charlie's Angels movies. You know what I mean? Just like there was, it was, the colors were a bit brighter in there. It was just, it was, it was the time. So when you watch it, if you're 22 and you go back and watch it, and we sound like old men, like, just understand that there's symptoms that are beyond its control. Oh, that's, I mean, it's ugly. It's ugly, yes. But the show is very ugly. The characters are disgusting. Yes, and it has such a great arc and Walton Goggins plays the number two.

34:36And his character is my favorite TV character of all time. I think that's a great choice. I got to do it. I did a pilot with him based on LA Confidential. And unfortunately, we didn't go to series, but like, I'm so glad that guy's famous now, because he is so fucking good. We have a Goggins connection. Oh, yeah. Have I talked about that on the pod? A little bit, maybe. Well, it's been a while. I wrote running the light, my first book, and the guy who optioned it is the student in London. Let's just say he's a murky character. Nice. Who might be stateless. And I think he might have also invoked the Jared Fogel defense in various cases. But it was maritime law. Right. You know? Anyway, he's just a guy who offered me money when I didn't have any to option it. I said, of course. So I get a call from my agents. I was in Houston at that festival. And they're like, hey, Goggins loves the script of running the light. Oh, nice. He wants it so bad. It's on. He's going to produce it. He's going to star. Don't worry. You're a million dollar dream, kid.

35:37Cancel that festival. You don't have to do the late show. I get off stage. A bunch of missed calls. Hey, remember that thing we said about Goggins? Well, the man who has the option rights refused to sign the facts that would have cemented the deal because he wanted to quote, fly to LA private with a bottle of champagne because this felt a lot, like, quote, getting married before ever kissing. So guess what? He weirded out everyone. And everyone's out. Oh, God. Yeah. It was like, I went on stage elated, and I got off stage and was like, fuck everything. I don't need anyone. I was like, riffraff, dude. I blew up. I didn't need nobody. And I immediately got derailed. It was nuts. That is a terrible order of events there. Because if you'd gone on stage a little sooner. Heartbroken. Or just not knowing nothing. Sure, yeah. Because somebody could have called you and said, man, we have a crazy story. Nothing good comes of it. Don't get your hopes. I one time pitched on a show for HBO.

36:38And like a week later, my agent called me and said, look, the show isn't happening. But you would have gotten it. Which sucks. But it's better to hear than you got the job. Oh, and it's not happening. I didn't have to rise up so there was no place to fall to. Yeah, you never saw the angel's faces. Exactly. And so I don't know what I'm missing now. I got fitted for wings for two hours, man. I'm gonna grab a zin. Do you need anything or water? I think I'm still half here. You have any great literary questions? No. Of course not. Are you into cars at all? Not really, but I trust. So you have nothing to talk about that. Well, Becker. This episode is brought to you by CashApp. CashApp does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure your money stays your money. CashApp just released a new status program for the way

37:39people actually spend. It's called CashApp Green. Nice. Now, when you spend at least $500 a month with the CashApp card, you were in green status which unlocks benefits like up to $200 of free overdraft coverage, higher borrow limits, and custom personalized Cashback offers every Friday at places you love to shop. Turn everyday spending into status with CashApp Green, download CashApp today or visit cash.app to learn more about this and other financial benefits. New CashApp customers can earn $10 if they use code CashApp10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply. CashApp is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by CashApp's bank partners, prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. CashApp Visa debit flex card issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC in the bank corp NA. And the bank corp bank NA pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc. See Terms of Conditions for the Sutton prepaid card. Sutton debit flex card. And bank corp debit flex card.

38:41CashApp Green features savings direct deposit roundups, overdraft coverage, and discounts provided by CashApp, a blocking brand visit cash.app slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. OK, so I'm like, so I just kind of want to be a dork about it then. With the way you write, you said you write violence. Yeah. So do you see that as the central crux of your entire canon like everything is violence, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that's like, you know, if you want to be like narrow, some people talk about noir. I don't know what it is. I don't either, man, especially after reading like man's shit and the French guys, it's like, I don't know what the fuck noir is anymore. No, and it's just like, it's literally a thing. French movie critics came up to describe some movies that came out like, you know, 70 years ago at this point. Now we just stick it on anything. You know, sometimes I'll be like, I don't know what you're like, Man go look at me. I feel like, yeah, I don't like the off Beachside abbey. So I got a prick團. Yeah, I've got to go. And I just remember this boneifold April when I printed

39:43just trying to direct a book andただ呵 ee, and then I kind of think, comedy when I like a stupid shit. Guys, I never really mixed清楚 a vocalsité pur, so you know, guys, I look at it like a bit, like, like simply, like a word song. Like, first fucking again, just wanting to be like, when is the female label Mike has the lead, David, Dave missed a bean look? Dude, dude, Gaes Dick, but it hasn't helped. And you just have these floating, atomized people in a world where anything is permissible, but you're still going to lose. And there's nothing to fight for, which is all fascinating. I'm kind of moving to a place where I have to find something to fight for, which is why my stuff is not totally nihilistic. I don't give happy endings, but I think, compared to a man's shirt, I give happy endings. And you know what, dude? I would say that, fuck, you kind of do have happier endings than a lot of the writers that I enjoy. Yeah. Like, she writes, I don't want to give anything away because I want to read your shit. But having read your entire uvoire or whatever the word is,

40:45like, obviously, it's not like no one involved in the end of these books is better off, typically. But there is a little bit of a, all right. There's a little bit of over. And there's sort of, I really like, I bet that hurts your feelings. I don't need to hurt your feelings. No, I mean, it's not, it didn't start as an intentional choice. Yeah. But it has sort of become one at this point. There's a little justice in your fucking work. Well, just, and it's not false justice. No, no, no. It's never the idea that if we just tell the right authorities, everything's gonna be put to right. It's just simply saying, yeah, you gotta fight. Uh-huh. They're probably gonna win. Right. You have to fight and in fighting, you will capture something that they have taken from you. Yeah, like the fight is where it is. The fight is where it is. The struggle is where it's at. I love like, like, Yakuza films. Dude, I am all in on Japanese crime fiction. Oh, it's the best. Dude. Like, I'm a huge Kenji Fukusake man. Yes, dude. Uh, and you watch his movies and it's like, it's always two guys standing up against the system

41:47and they grab their little short samurai and raise their pistols and they just charge into like a hundred enemy Yakuza and they die. They die. Invariably, they die. Verably, yeah, but they go down swinging. Go down swinging. Yeah. I really appreciate like that as my version of a happy ending and the fact that in this genre that counts as a happy ending, I think says a lot about for sure, because I was like, they're kind of happy, but no, it's like, you know, only his leg is blown off. You know, yeah. And it's also, the meth lab doesn't kill everybody. It's like kind of stuff. And usually some kind of human connection has been made. Like, that's the other thing that I try to do is like, I mean, not to be a, I'm a child of the hippies, but like that, that somehow human love has to matter even if yes, the billionaires are still in their castles and the police still are wearing helmets and clubs and they're coming. Dude, the police gang stuff in the new books. Oh, thank you. That stuff is just like, I mean, it's good to be a little old hat and a people are starting to learn about it. But when you first learn that there are gangs

42:48in the LA Sheriff's Department. Murder gangs. Murder gangs, yeah. And like, and they have bad attitudes. Bad attitude. I am like, even when the people are awful, I love lore. I love the tattoos. I love stories. I love nicknames. You want to fun tip. Federal indictments of gangs. Reco act indictments are terrific reading because at the beginning, you know, Rico is when they cross-cutal whole game, right? And so at the beginning. This parents were bail bonds with it. Oh, is that right? Fascinating. That is fascinating stuff. At the beginning of every federal indictment on a recost statute, they have to establish what the gang is. And so they'll break down its hierarchy. They'll like list members, they'll list like what they have to do for initiation. What is a jugalow? What is a jugalow? And why are they so angry? Yeah, yeah. They're not angry. That's a great thing about jugalos. They're the best. I mean, Springfield, Missouri. The square? Oh, yeah. They're stronghold. Oh, yeah. When I was a kid, it was Nazi skinheads

43:50and kids playing that vampire role playing game. Oh, shit, dude. Yeah. That was a spooky spot, picture. Yeah. OK. But I use this on a TV show I work down. But I found one. I read an Arkansas white power prison gang where their leader was named the Nilla Gorilla. Awesome. And you just got it thumbs up, guys. Oh, yeah. You did good work. The hell of a hell of branding, guys. Yeah. You nailed that one. But I love that stuff. And so even though, yeah, fuck the Sheriff's Department, like the fact that they have gangs where they will ink changes to the tattoos after you kill someone. Yeah, like there was like a tooth that gets blood in it, I think is in the book. Yeah, dude. You know about these? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's crazy. I know I'm steamrolling you. I'm sorry. I am really, I'm just like really a fan. So this is cool. Thank you. Yeah, so how about this, though? Like with Noir? I've made the argument in the past. And I'm not as educated, so I don't know. But like, I think that we have Noir here. It's just, it's with Southern Gothic,

44:52and now it's just American Gothic fiction. Like rural Gothic is great. Like what differentiates Noir from like Flannery O'Connor? That's, you know, I think a lot of times these are just like literally material changes in the world. OK. You know that like there are like epochs of like technology that occur that like I think Noir starts once the automobile kind of gets the sexy shape of the 40s and 50s. And it's like, yeah, yeah. To grow up a gun and a damn. Yeah, there's like the Flannery O'Connor is like, you know, in a Model T. You run in shine, yeah. I think a lot of times, you know, these things are also just like reactions to like whatever the trauma of the era is. You know, Noir really started in around the war, World War II. Yeah, yeah. The whole idea we have of Neo Noir, which was Vietnam. OK. Literally, you started to see it. That phrase get to boundied around. And there are like, you know, if you ever watch like Cuttersway. Yeah, yeah. George Higgins is like Neo Noir. Yeah. OK. Anything that starts around that era, which was a lot of people like rediscovering those films

45:54from the 40s. Yeah. Again, it's I have a like an idea that Americans are constantly trying to deal with a psychological toll of being the bad guys. Wow. And how much violence is we live on top of? And I think there's a lot of different art forms and ways that we do that. I mean, you could talk about the Western, right? And the amount of. Semionics, Black Hat. White Hat. Yeah. And I think it's about this idea that like people carve their way through this country with like guns. Oh, and genocide. And like when it wasn't people, it was the buffalo and their hides and skulls were just the entire horizon. Yes. Yeah. And we're always dealing with that. Just like this goes too far. I feel like I apologize. People talk about the Kennedy assassination and why conspiracy theories resonate. And without commenting on true or false of that, it's undeniable that it's like huge psychic issue for America. Yeah. Yeah. But like again, not like one of the hooks we hang our history on as Americans is the Kennedy assassination. And whether or not Kennedy was just Oswald or not. In November 1963, the month he was killed,

46:57the United States in collusion with military like general's connected to the government. And the CIA colluded to assassinate the president of South Vietnam. Like that's just a fact. Yeah. America was doing all this like violent, evil, down and dirty shit. And our collective brains, we had to process that. So you think it's the dissonance between the truth of the story and the reality of what we are? Yeah. I think it's, it's, you know, you're projecting your feelings about what we are onto this other thing. And so we can talk about, did you know the CIA killed a president? Well, yeah, they did kill a president. It's like their whole thing. They did. Yeah, it does. So many. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think, you know, again. But then you get to the point where like you're kind of like jaded and like that I'd and like you've seen the truth and you've done all the research and then people are like, did you know the CIA killed Kennedy? And you're like, you sweet summer child. It's like when Charlie Sheen was busted, looking at porn by Denise Richards. And he said, fuck you. Like that's a lot of America. Yeah, fuck you. Of course they are.

47:58So I've tried to not be. And of course they are. Are you idiot guy? Because like my mom made me read Howard's in when I was like 14. So like I never had any chance of a hope in the lie. You know, I mean, I don't know like what age you were introduced like Jelloby Afra. Oh, I mean, this like punk rock was like the thing. And I mean, all of my politics are very much just SSD records jackets that I read when I was 12. I get you go back and other than his real fondness for like funny names, like you know, BB Rambozo or whatever. Jelloby Afra was pretty much right about all of that stuff. It's served as a good backdrop by life. I don't like the first person to tell you how Jelloby has been right his entire life. His Jelloby Afra. That's my issue. Because we used to go see him talk in Boulder when I was a young punk. And he was so preachy and condescending that the guy who sang for dead Kennedys was no longer like a cool guy to me. Because I saw him like tell people to put their cigarettes out at the anarchist punk rock conversation.

48:59Yeah. Anyway, that's I have a personal long vetted beef with. And I have heard that from a lot of other people had any kind of interaction with him as a person. And I'm sure if I like hung out with Mike Watmore, I would probably have issues with Mike Wat. But like the minute matter like the that's where I get my politics. That's my whole ethos is just minute mention. Well, like I read something recently from Johnny Knoxville about how it actually kind of sucked to meet Hunter as Thompson. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it probably would suck to meet Johnny Knoxville. Well, it doesn't suck to meet you. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how about this Larry Brown? Larry Brown. You like Larry Brown the author? Well, yeah. I'm not sure. Okay. He wrote father and son. He wrote Joe. Okay. Please. Blind spot please treat. No, I was just going to ask you because I was going to say that I hadn't been like as stoked on fiction about, well, you know, because he's from Mississippi. But in my great plane's head, everything between the Ozarks and the Delta occupies a similar space as far as like guys and pickup trucks, you know, hunting racks.

50:00Yeah. I'm not casting a big blanket. I'm just saying I've been to these places. There's a lot of commonality. I was going to say that man, like, you really realize some people the same way that like Larry Brown did. Oh, thank you. I'll take them out. Please do. That guy was like my foray into Southern Gothic fiction. Oh, wow. Yeah, he was like a very Hannah contemporary. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. He's a cool guy. I'm the book I'm writing right now is set in the Ozarks in the 90s because I wanted to write about like, math. Well, math, but young people on the run. Yeah. And that's where I was a young person. It's where I did math. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so it's been fun leaving LA also like those last two books. I have emptied my entire LA into those books. Dude, I have to let the tank fill, you know. And so that yeah, I'm trying to go back to that because I have like short fiction set in the Ozarks and stuff. I've never done a novel there, but like there's so I so much of it is the pickup trucks and I'm trying to explain to people like, I had a weird punk rock growing up in the Ozarks and like that is possible to, you know, yeah.

51:02I, I, we had so much LSD. Yeah. When I was a kid, it was easier. I didn't drink. And it was easier for me to get acid than it was for my friends to get beer. Oh, yeah. You know, dude, we'd was like legal in Springfield way before it was legal in a lot of places. Oh, yeah. It was decriminalized in Spring. Like I remember being on the road and being like, if we can just like chill and wait till we get the first place that I ever took a dab. Yeah. Was Springfield, Missouri. And it was like 2011, dude. Yeah. So there's freaks there. Oh, yeah. And like, you know, and there was meth everywhere. I'm very glad there wasn't heroin around because I think that the pills got there a little right after you. Yeah. Yeah. And, but yeah, I mean, there was just like such a weirdness to it that definitively American. Yeah. So exciting to like, because like we don't have these like, we don't have French and Belgian and Danish. Right. You know, like we don't have these little micro, but we got the fucking Ozarks, man. And we've got, you know, we've got the Kansas Nebraska freaks. Like those just like high desert, like Whistler's mother type

52:06painting people, you know? Yeah. Like, so it's just like the Ozarks are such a uniquely American like phenotype. And it's like this weird like stone that skipped from like Appalachia to the Ozarks like Bakersfield. But this the whole kind of Bible belt thing that's in between. That's great. The Appalachia thing kind of like the red knack, like the classical like coal miner union sense, like that kind of thing that's also over there in Appalachia is like, what is that about? Well, I mean, it's skipping the stone fucking crushed it. That's awesome. Thank you. Professional writer. Oh, man. That like it's it's the same population. It is a population of like black Irish and Scottish people who were hill people, like land and like Appalachia and feel comfortable because that's hills and get to the Ozarks and that's Hills. And then I'm fudging this a little, but the Jodes are basically that same story of how those people wound up going to California. It's just like you like the Ozarks is like bad farming country. It's Hills. It's not great farming country.

53:06Appalachia is the same. They find coal. Those people would be even poorer. That's where they like eat fucking like dandelions. And they're like, oh, yeah, we dandelion fritters over here. It's like you had to. Well, like my grandfather was like a real old school Ozarks guy. And when I was like 10, he would make us plates of scrambled eggs and cabs brains. And like his butcher held them back for him. You know, but and I would eat them because I was 10. And I bet people were knocking down the doors trying to get those calf brains. You know, there was a run on the market for calf brains. When people eat something like that's because at one point, that was all there was sustenance. Yeah. And now it reminds them the same way that like you want to eat 12 pop tarts. It reminds you of being a little boy in the safety of your home. My grandpa was from St. Joe straight up fucking like hobo during the dust bowl. That motherfucker built three homes owned property by the time he was older couldn't get enough Vienna sausages. That guy ate those disgusting little pig dicks over and over and over again. And it's like you don't have to do this anymore.

54:09But he wanted them. I actually, and I had a guy who had been in prison told me this. There's this stuff that I have in the last king of California where a guy who's recently out of prison is making this stuff called cheat. Yeah, cheat. Yeah. A bunch of Doritos like cooked in the bag with like ramen stuff. So you have like a burrito kind of yeah, a milk cook them every now. Yeah, because it's something you could cook out of a commentary in prison. This guy told me I still make it sometimes. Yeah, the taste kind of like home. Yeah, it's a familiar thing. Just like in spring from Missouri. You probably I hope you've never been there. There's a chain of Mexican restaurants called Mexican villa. I'm invariably have been there for sure. Yeah, if they're open late and it was $8 I've eaten there. And like they have the story on the menu of this place was started by a guy from Springfield who in World War II got stationed in Texas. He was in the Air Force and he ate. He never cooked at a Mexican restaurant, but he ate Mexican food in Texas. Yeah. And then flew back to Springfield. Springfield's number one authority on Mexican. And open up a chain of restaurants that are still open to this day.

55:10Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I love it. Uh huh. One time a friend of mine brought his girlfriend from out of town to eat there and when they put the food down. I was like, oh no, this relationship is oh testing something. Yeah, because nobody from outside is free. For ever wants to eat this stuff. But yeah, it's whatever you grew up with. You just developed it. I mean, I like lambards, baby. I want to see a roll be tossed. It's fun. That's where we ate a prom. You know, I'm really into lambards. Cool. You've been to lambards with us. No. They have, it's a big like kind of Amish style buffet. Okay. But there's like young kids in there and there's care around roles. And you'll be like, hit me. And then their whole thing is like whippin' up. Throwin' them behind their back. Like, yeah. It's pretty fun. Yeah. Very farm. Yeah. And they say we don't have culture. Yeah. And also the home of what? What, what, what, uh, fucking the chicken mignugget, right? Or general soures? Cashew chicken. Yeah. Is springfield. So we have like more Chinese restaurants than any other city at size in America. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

56:11Gypsy Rose Blanchard. Gypsy Rose Blanchard's Ring Film Missouri. Yeah. I guess that's the origin. I mean, when you cross the street from the comedy club in that movie theater. Yeah. With like a pop-barker painted on the side. Yeah. That's after I left. Oh, sorry man. The heyday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That Brad Pitt, John Ashcroft. John Goodman and Brad Pitt are always like chilling in Springfield getting drunk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like people got like really involved like in like his life. You know where you like my parents still want like like Jennifer Aniston and him to get out of the way. I know. I don't know if my parents really care about that. But that's the vibe. Sure. You hope they do. Yeah. Something's gotta stay pure in this world. Yeah. Hopefully it's that not cue and not. Yeah. I grew up as like I said, the kids of parents who started out as hippie. Yeah. And so we were the weirdos and our which were like, you know, my parents are like, you know, run it. Not run of the milk. But like the center of the road Democrats. Yeah. And like party line, which is an extremist dance in Springfield.

57:12It's just like crazy, crazy talk. Yeah. You know, and like I said, like we had the hammer skin nation was there at national headquarters running our hometown. Yeah. Growing up which is white supremacist organization. Which is why I make them the villains a lot. Sure. Yeah. They were an unplay that they, you know, got into it with my brother who ran the punk rock club. Yeah. You know how that is like, you know, the old I didn't come up with this. So you got to keep the Nazis out of your punk rock club where it's just a Nazi club. We literally just watched a movie last night about that. What were you watching? Freekittales. Oh, freaky tales. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the first fourth of the film is not. Yeah. Gilman Street. Becker. Yep. The weight is over. All right. I'm done. Football is here. Man, I'm actually, this might be the first year in my life that I'm not like fuck. I know. It's going to be great. You're going to have a lot of barbecues. Yeah. All right. I love talking about football now that I kind of know some things that are going on when you guys talk about it. A lot of ice cold lemonade's coming your way. A lot of cozy patios wearing a sweater, maybe a jacket as well.

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59:22On behalf of Booth Hill, Casino, and Kansas, Bettax pass through May of Pi in Illinois. 21 plus Void in Canada. Event contract trading with draft kings predictions involves risk of loss. Availability varies. Predictions offer Void in New York. Bet to get bonus bets that expire in seven days. Trade to get prediction dollars that expired in one year. $50 in rewards issued every seven days via click to claim for 21 days. One non with drawable reward, redeemable terms at dkng.co slash offer limited time Offer Nationwide based on sports book predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. Varys by state. I really hate it. You guys know Green Room, Jeremy Salkyrie. I really think like, I mean, the whole movie is awesome.

1:00:24He's a blue ruin, right? He's my favorite guy. I'm just awesome. The pitch and brute to directors. I was like, please can we talk to him? Yeah. That's a good choice. He's the man. He's the man. I really think he captured like the guy that they're like staying at a guy's house and he's interviewing them for his scene. Right. Yeah. Or radio station while telling them how to get to the club. That was like most realistic depiction of punk rap fans ever seen. And I had so many friends who like, why didn't they leave and it's like they don't have anywhere else to stay? Yeah. And they haven't been paid the $80 yet. Like you don't understand how high these low stakes were when you're in a band like that. Sure. I wrote out so many bad situations, not just in music but also in comedy because I was in fucking Tama, Iowa. And yeah, the guy might be a white supremacist and he showed us his Nazi memorabilia. But he's letting us stay in his camper. Like, I don't like it either, but I don't have any money. Yeah. This is where we're staying. If you guys aren't cool with it, like I get it, God power to you, but you're sleeping in the car.

1:01:24There's no being the trailer. There's no playing B. There's nothing else. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're back against the wall. No, you're right. And that makes it realistic in a way that's like, other ones, it's like don't go in the house. It's like guys that are in the house. They don't have gas to get home. Yeah, yeah. Where else are they going to go? Yeah. Like they're going to sleep in the van down the road if they don't say here. Great point. I agree completely. That guy rules. Well, okay. What, what? You're a writer of great violent fiction. Let's say there's a young man out there who's like, I hear all these guys are like, why? Well, guy aren't guys reading. What would you suggest to some dude who like, you know, it's not, I don't know, talking literature. But like, what's a book you think would get someone into reading? Sure. I mean, if any of this stuff has appealed to you that we're talking about, American tabloid by James Elroy is, I mean, it's crazy. It's pulpy. It's talking about a bunch of celebrities. You might not know who they are. Rip from your headlines type shit. But it was ripped from the headlines for its time. And it is just the balsiest book I've ever read.

1:02:25I still think right there. What you did is also a triumph on that measure dude. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Specifically that genre. I mean, I did, like I said, I did a TV show based on him. I'm a huge, my dog was named Elroy. Nice. I mean, like just a huge fan of what he, I just think even though he is very pulpy, it's pulpy. I think we live in a pulpy country and like people who exaggerate and turn up the volume are more accurately describing America than people who are realists. Because this is not a real country. There's nothing real happening here. Like this stuff is turned up to 11. Like when Tarantino is America. That's right. That's right. So I think that I would definitely recommend James Elroy, but that's a big book. But hey, worth it dude. I mean, if you're going to dip your toes in, like why not go with one of the masters of the form? Yeah, go go with the masters. I think that you know, essay Cosby, new guy, good friend of mine. Yeah. And I think like, you know, he has a book called All the Sinners Bleed that is like a good fun.

1:03:29King of Ashes. Super dark King of Ashes is a good one. Yeah. I again, like I'm older now. All my books are older, but like Jim Thompson, you can read a Jim Thompson book in a day. Oh my God. Yeah. Population 1408. That's a good one. I love that book. That's a good one. Easy book. The Grifters was a big one for me. How about the Grifters, right? Everyone always says, you know, killer inside me, but like I think that's the one. No, I think Grifters is the one. Yeah. And after dark my suite, any of those, and again, you can read them in a day. I tried to do like a completist run of reading all his books. Don't do that. They're not great. No. There's the one about like the kid in the wood shed. I mean, I read. It's a lot of bad ones. Yeah, there's a lot of, I mean, he wrote like 35 books. Right. He's been born by the Word or whatever. Yeah. But like five or like massive pieces. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. Some of them are insane, dude. Yeah. There's a book where it's like a kid who asked a chop wood. I remember he was being disappointed, but yeah. I found a first edition copy of it. It was like finally. It was like when I found the gospel singer by Harry Cruz.

1:04:30And I was like, well, this is the hard one to find. And then I read it. And I was like, Oh, it's not my favorite book. I just read his memoir. Oh, childhood or boyhood. or boyhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That book is crazy. It's a memoir of his life up until the time he is five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the shit that happens to him before he is five, he gets polio at one point. Yeah. And you think, well, this must be the worst part of the moon. No, no. No, it's worse for that. Don't they try and solve his polio with like a snake? How would they try all sorts of things? Yeah. Yeah. Like faith healers and people just like bend his legs against his will. Yeah. There's a scene they like trying to break it. They put them in like the the sharp shooter. Yeah. Because it's just like a rural childhood like the 19th Florida. Yeah. Florida, Georgia line, I think. Yeah. And like, I mean, at one point his dad dies and they bleed his dad out behind the house. Yeah. Like a hog. And then his dad's dog sits where the blood was buried and howls for three days. And it's just like, wow, you know, we complain about micro plastics, you know. Yeah.

1:05:34But that the dog just screams until it like tires itself out and falls asleep. It's not even a spoiler, but I can't evoke it. I want you if you read it to feel it. There's a thing that happens to him near the end of the book that is worse than polio. And when I read about it, I had to put the book down. I'm hard. Yeah. Yeah. I'm hard to shake. Oh boy. Thank God for modern medicine. Thank God. Whatever else is wrong in the world, we don't have, I mean, we do have polio. That's a thing. It's like, I guess we got to make people read these books. You don't want polio guys. This is not fun. You know, it's all coming back. Scarlett fever. Yeah. My wife's always just like, oh yeah. Measels. Great. Totally different category. But like, if you haven't read it and you dug the movie, the first three dune books are wicked. Interesting. Yeah. I don't have any love for cybercifi or fantasy. Do I love a Tolkien? You know, I read that stuff. But like, to me, I'm kind of the same except for I would say Frank Herbert and Tolkien are the two that I really,

1:06:35I didn't get much past that. My dad was like, you got to redoing that. It's badass. I read the first one I was a kid and I never was compelled to read that. That's interesting. But Henry's in Browsky loves them. Yeah. Yeah. And he's very smart. He likes all of them though. Every book. Yeah. Oh, they give weird ones. Oh yeah. Once his son gets involved. Well, it turns into a giant space. Wow. I'm assuming they're not doing that in the in the movies. But like, he lives for 3,000 years. And it's still horny. He's like plastic man. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But, you know, I think the main thing is like, you know, sometimes you hear, well, guys don't read because they don't publish books for guys anymore. Like, and it's like, yeah, well, first of all, there's a 2000 year book collect every book ever work for. I mean, like, my, you have essay, Crosby. Yeah. You're like, that guy rules. Yeah. He rules. I rule. You rule. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there are things out there. But if you don't want to read a new book, 2000 year, my grandfather was a prison guard made knives in a spare time. And he had a bookshelf and he read Louis Lamore. Yeah. Yeah.

1:07:37And then he read this series of books probably William Johnstone. Yeah. Right. Those pop up there. And then he had these books that were about Doc and Raider. Okay. These were Westerns published by Playboy. And Doc was like kind of a Doc holiday. He's a born vivant. Raider had a big mustache and a bowie knife. I know these ones. I used to run out of used books. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about how we soundproof the walls. This was Doc and Raider. And the podcast studio was Playboy Westerns. Yeah. JD Hardin was the, I assume, pin name. Okay. And it would like Doc and Raider would come to a new town. They would fuck everything that moves. They'd kill a guy. And you're like, this is, I read him when I was 12. It's a winning strategy. Yeah. There was Doc and Raider. And then there was another one. There were two Cowboys series. They ran at the same time. That's how successful they were. Yeah. Well, I mean, I joked about William Johnstone. But like that guy and his son pumped out a million truck stop books. Oh, yeah. And they were all about the same thing. It was like, you know, some like racially motivated apocalypse came to America.

1:08:41And now there was one man with a big rifle and everyone wanted to suck his dick. And then some other stuff happens. But that was, it's just, and I read a bunch of those. Yeah. Cam Omla gave me a bunch when I moved there. They're fun. They're fun. They're fun. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I think like, I always say like read what your brain tells you. And then like, find where your boundary is and press on it. Go beyond it. But go beyond it. But don't feel like you got to like shove your arm through it. Press on it. You don't have to watch enough films. But you know, or eat my birdman. You don't have to watch. Eat my birdman movies. Try one. If you don't like it. Don't watch it. Don't get finished. And you might be in the mood for something like that once in a while. Yeah. But like find that thing that like, okay, you like you like American crime movies. Watch a Japanese crime film. 100%. Read some of those, uh, those like, uh, those Scandinavian crime novels. Yeah. Like Joe Nezbit and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Those are page turners. Those are page turners. But there's a little, let me ask you this. You're, so like, uh, and we'll, I'm sorry. We won't go insane here. But, um, my big hypothesis right now is that, um, the MFA novels that all suck

1:09:46and are embarrassing, you know, that are written by people who go to MFA programs and then they're edited and approved and sold by people who went to the same MFA programs. Yeah. I think that the most exciting, um, fiction, literature, crime stuff is all the translated shit. Oh, okay. Because like the Japanese are still allowed to write about like, butter would never be an American novel. They would have said it's too long and boring. What the fuck are you talking about? Uh, parodies like that great fucking book. Uh, uh, the hurricane season person wrote it. Like, all these books are like disgusting and vulgar and like, we would never allow them to be published here. Yeah. But there's some of the absolute most compelling, most like new ideas, like, finally, like, uh, tenders the flesh, that book about eating people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No way that that would have been published here as a literary book. It would have been like, oh, this is a horror, like, you know, but no, it got elevated because it came from South America. And I think that the most exciting shit is like, on American right now because they won't publish it here. And if they do,

1:10:50it's like almost impossible to find that kind of stuff. Well, it's, it's tough to find it. And what I'm learning and I'm doing great, nobody cry for me is that people don't know how to sell things aren't already in a pipeline now. 100%. People are so fucking lazy and stupid. So and everything just gets fed into a pipeline. And if that pipeline doesn't exist for something, they don't, they're like, what do we do with it? Yeah. People are selling shit that they're not actually into. Right. Yeah. So they don't know what the nuance of what makes it good. And they just want to make sales. Yeah. That's from like cars to TV shows to books to fucking everything in culture now is just money hungry, motherfuckers going to work because they're all drowning. Yeah. Apple TV is a network. Yeah. And they make shows starring stars. And I've never watched any of them. I know. Isn't it great? You go over there to watch the new Cape Fear and you're like, John Ham has a show. And it's three seasons. Where have I been? It's such a strange feeling to like work on a TV show. Yeah. And then realize that nobody has ever heard of it. What the hell? It's there's, there's too much stuff. And you know what? Like I love that everybody has a voice now. And that's cool.

1:11:54Yeah. Critics were cool too. Like we need to like bring back the idea of a critic. You don't have to listen to them all the time, but it's good to have somebody out there who goes, Hey guys. You know, this one's special. We don't have to see every movie like this, but this one's special. And I know that because I've watched every movie like used to we used to value expertise. Like I used to love literary film criticism. That kind of shit. I think monoculture helped that though. Because I think right right right. When everything because there was eight movies. And they didn't have to justify being a critic by having an opinion on their niche shit that they're covering. And also not everyone had a platform on social to say this. I'm smarter than you. So it was also okay for them to come out and be like, that one was fine. Yeah. And they probably also they don't rush their newspaper they wrote for probably wasn't also owned by the same studio. The publisher of the yeah. Well, and like at one point, I use I was a music journalist for a few years. And I was at an alt weekly in St. Louis. And like Thursdays were when people came in to play pay for their classified ads, which were 90% sex work. Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:57And so I was smoking back then. I would stand outside. I was smoking. I watched like this just long line of women come in and then Craigslist got invented. And I looked at Craigslist. I said, we're done. Yeah. It's over. Yeah. Because like, weird thing is journalism has never been something people would pay for. Right. Yeah. It was always they were buying it for the crossword, for the cartoons, for sports sections, for TV listings. Yeah. Yeah. You just wanted to know what concerts were coming to town. You grab I mean, I worked in an alt weekly and I grabbed it to find out when the movie times were what concerts. I mean, the westward only stayed afloat because they could pivot once the sex worker thing died out. They could pivot to weed sales. Sure. So it was all weed ads. But that was because they were also owned by new times. That was all one. Yeah. Village voice type stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was new times and they bought Village Voice and they took the name. Okay. Yeah. And I was yeah, I was a music critic for them. And then I pivoted over to being I was a film critic for a little while. And you know, but that's that stuff was kept afloat not by people going, I can't wait to read what Jordan says about a DVD. I mean, that would be something people would read, but they they came there because like the money was earned elsewhere. And now everything is

1:14:01so segmented that that that doesn't happen anymore. You had Savage Love in that magazine. Yes. You had to read your Savage Love and we were lucky. We had Jason Sheehan, the food writer, the great food writer from the westward. Yeah. Yeah. Like I remember I'm fucking 39. Jason Sheehan hasn't written for the westward since I was maybe 19. I don't say 20 years. That guy shit was fucking pivotal. Yeah. And it's like that stuff. That guy, the new Jason Sheehan will never exist because there's no there's no like outlet for that. There's no outlet and they're not people aren't going that they're going to yell. Right. Yeah. I will say this is my good food critics are great. I don't want to read what a random person thinks about food, but I want to see their pictures of it. Me too. You can actually tell food is good and not by looking at it. Yeah. You get a better sense. You're very good at that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And but like yeah, you know, and again, it's like there's a lot of great stuff. I will also say I'm a big reader, big advocate reader. I'm a writer. Yeah. I'm going to play an Elden Ring the last couple of days. Motherfucker, I got city skylines on my phone. It's bad. I know. It's like so good. I know. Video games are better. I get it. Dude,

1:15:05I always say it's like the one or men read it's like have you played grand theft out of five. I mean, I played red dead redemption too. You get to be a little cowboy. You get to be a little cowboy. And I do think like I work very hard to make my books feel immersive. Yeah. The line I always have is I want to feel like people just fall face forward into the book. But like man, that's what those games do. It's insane. But they're also using casino logic. They're literally casino scientists telling you how many points you mean are best and brightest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's a casino now. And I don't know how to do that in a book. I don't want to do that. Yeah. But again, like I do think Patterson and Mr. Beast just learned you can't do that. Oh, I'm heartbroken. Oh, my God. My heart. Just like $1 million. Fucking big though. They they were giving away a million to somebody who bought the book. Yeah. And they sold 10,000 copies. All I saw is that publishing is like what the fuck have we done? We thought this was going to save the crisis and it's under four digits. They forgot GTA is coming out. Oh, dude. I mean, by the way, that's why I'm playing Elden Ring is because I bought a PS5. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To get ready for Grand Theft. I

1:16:08played Elden Ring when it came out. What am I doing? What about this new game? Yeah, that's right. It's fucking the one where you're just like a roving dude. I've been people off and never mind. I care. Remember if you think of it, let me know because all I want to do in a video is be a roving dude. Yeah. I think they made the best roving dude simulator ever. Yeah. And I've been it's been it's like called like Crimson Vow or Crimson something. I don't know. Anyway, what about a band from I think St. Joe called the revelators? Oh, I remember the revelators. You've never seen the revelators live. Yeah. So they are they are kind of one of my little like obsessions. Oh, yeah. Because the revelators somehow at like not mutiny, but one of the other record stores, Winston Shout, I got a free revelator CD. Yeah. And I put it in and I was like, then it said like they were farmers from like somewhere in Kansas, Missouri. And I was like, is this a gag? But you actually can confirm that they were a real band. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely know that name and I'm pretty sure I saw the revelators. That was my only must-ask

1:17:08question today. Was it you ever seen the revelators? I, you know, that's again, you like everything we're talking about, like, there's just less like going to shows. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was my life when I was 17 years old. Yeah. Two bro. There was a band from St. Louis, Missouri called the Urge. Yeah. I know the Urge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To this day, one of the greatest bands I've ever seen live in my life. Yeah. Just like it was back when like punk bands had horns and they weren't a scob band, but they were like in that. Yeah. Horns and rock band are awesome. Never fails. I have a theory. Yeah. And this by all rock music is either harmonica rock or saxophone rock. Whether or not there's a harmonica or saxophone in it. I like saxophone rock. I like saxophone rock. The sonics are saxophone rock. Yeah. And then Stevie Ray Vaughan is harmonica rock. I'm a saxophone rock guy. Punk rock is generally saxophone rock. It's 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And even like like, like fear had a saxophone. Yeah, but fear is maybe the one harmonica punk rock band. Honestly, if you would have made me guess her name one punk rock hardcore band, the harmonica might have been fear. Maybe the

1:18:14meat man. No effects. Yeah. They kind of lack the bouncy fun of saxophone. Yeah. But I'll say this is that's going to get us destroyed online. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just want to be in a corvette driving really fast smoking. Yeah, smoking. Yeah. Like I tear up into Miami vice pilot. Like I love that stuff. I listen to new music that is in that vein. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I was in the car. Is this fear before podcasts yesterday. I heard all the new music. Yeah. I like weird noises. Uh, I like I was just you, you drums, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For your whole life. Uh-huh. I just started playing guitar a year ago. Sick dude. It is. It's so cool. So glad that I did. I suck. Yeah. But then I found, you know, been like, like take lessons and I bring songs into learning. And

1:19:18finally, I was like, I'm ready to down tune. Yeah. I want to play electric wizard. Oh my god. It's my favorite. Pro, if you put it on wax, I'll do drums to it. Yeah. If you'll do dope throne, we could pick a song. Whatever you want, man. All right. I haven't learned anything of dope Okay. I'm working on you know, you're going to you're going to learn one electric wizard song. And it's going to take you two hours because the song is a half hour long. Yeah. It's like, it's like unlocks and I was like, oh, this is easy. Yeah. Dude, I mean, I would tell you just learn the J. Reatar song book. Okay. You know, J. Reatar. Yeah. That guy did so much with so little initially. And then obviously became a virtuoso. But man, I had a buddy who was like, I'm learning guitar. And I think I'm just going to like learn all those reatar songs. And I was like, yes, that's exactly what a person learning guitar should learn. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, you're the absolute man. Tell them where they can I'd find you online. All that stuff. Sure. You know, I'm on Instagram. I don't do a lot on Instagram. You sure doesn't. No, I don't. I was

1:20:20trying to get up this guy's skirt for a long time. Yeah. I'm on blue sky, which is just my Twitter methadone. Yeah. I still have my Twitter, but I don't go there. I'm trying to get off of it. But you can find me on blue sky. There's not a better place to say slurs online. There really is. Yeah. I know. So when I need to go back, I get it. Yeah. And then you know, my books are wherever books are sold. And they're good. Man, they're everything that's right with books, dude. Thank you. I'll tell you what. If you want to, his short stories are a great way to get in there. But man, I think you just pick up. If you're new to reading, which one would you suggest first? I would say probably she write shotgun. Yeah, I was going to say that one first, but that's just like that book. I'm going to read that book and be in like, fuck, I read that book. And I also read Pike by Benjamin Whitner. Oh, I love that book. Dude, I love that book. He's a Denver guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I give it the same thing when I got crimes in Southern Indiana. And then I got knock him stiff. And then there was just 10 years of reading fucking crazy crime shit. And then you and Benjamin Whitmer Whitmer or Whitmer Whitmer. Whitmer. Whitmer. Yeah.

1:21:20Both you guys. I was like, yes, you know, when you find shit and you're like, I'm not nuts. There is this shit is artistically valuable and also badass. And I love when someone makes me think I'm eating cotton candy. And it's actually cauliflower. Yeah. And that's you, man. That's what you achieve, bro. Yeah, get his books. Yeah, just you're the man. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, dude. Pleasure. Hell yeah.