S3E21: “Our Wedding” with David J. Frederick

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Hi everybody, I'm Janine Turner.

Welcome to Northern Disclosure,

where my handsome and talented co-star Rob Moro and I

walk through every episode of Northern Exposure.

So thanks for joining us.

Don't forget to hit that subscribe button

and share the news because I tell you what,

I run into people all the time,

everywhere who are just starting to watch the show

and it's such a beautiful inspirational show.

So it's it's worthy of a share.

And so it is season three episode 21.

It's entitled Our Wedding.

A great fun fun show.

It was a bit mesmerized watching it.

Lost track of time a little bit.

And so hello Rob Moro.

Hey Janine, what's up there?

Oh, I just just blowing and going and getting things done.

Blowing and going, I like it.

It's good.

Well, you look well and this was fun.

I too got lost in this episode.

There's so many great moments and it's fun that they serialize

the storyline of you and I not sleeping together.

They don't do that with a lot of stories,

but it's fun in that Northern Exposure can do that.

They can do whatever they want,

which makes it fun and unique and so often

unexpected that that story's not going away.

And it's going to carry on for for the rest of the series in a way, right?

Well, by serialized, you mean that we had it.

It happened in Juneau last week.

And then the last episode and this episode,

we were kind of building on top of that,

which doesn't always have to eat each episode.

Usually their own unique standalone.

But this will a continuation.

But they do it again in the next season.

This thing gets referenced and carried through,

which is interesting.

It's such a heart of the show are dynamic.

And the will they won't they.

Which is, you know, the will they won't they,

whether Maggie and Joel will actually consummate.

You know, it's like, that is the hard thing to do to write plausible.

You know, I remember speaking last week that I said,

I was a little dubious that, you know,

of some of the things, but like,

it's to give benefit to the how difficult it is

to have people attracted to each other

and having to not act on it, you know, over time.

It's fascinating.

And I really liked this episode.

I just thought your work was sincere and honest and intriguing.

And it shows our character vulnerabilities of our characters.

But also the willfulness that both of us have.

It's like, we try, we're trying.

We kind of have this yin and yang and this, this thing going on.

But it was a great episode because we had Diane Frolloff

who showed up a Marisa, you know, the police officer.

Not not Frolloff, Diane Delano.

That's what I mean.

That's right.

Diane Delano, who's deceased, RIP Diane.

Yeah, we changed, we exchanged Christmas cards forever.

I loved her.

Sorry, Diane.

This episode is called our wedding.

It's from season three, episode 21,

directed again by Nick Mark, who we had on the show.

Again, directed by our producers and the writing team

of Diane Frolloff, who you just mentioned, and Andy Schneider.

And we've got Valerie Mahafi as the even Adam back

and Richard Cummings again, who we had last week as our guest.

Everybody was in there.

We had Valerie.

We had Adam.

We had the whole kind of reoccurring cast.

So, Funcho, I'll read the little synopsis,

which I know people like to be reminded of.

So, it's called our wedding.

And it Adam prepares to marry Eve at his bachelor party.

The men ruminate on the differences between men and women.

Meanwhile, Eve lets an enthusiastic Shelley take over wedding plans.

And Maggie and Joel try to finish what they started in Juneau.

Well, there you go.

That one didn't give it all away.

That must be the shorter version.

That's the plot one, yeah.

Because last week, it was a spoiler alert.

But I thought, gosh, I thought Cynthia did a great job of being excited

about the wedding, Shelley, and column having the guilt trip about it.

And then Adam and Eve and back and forth and Rob,

you're stuck in the middle of that.

And even Elaine, you know, Marilyn, all of her reactions.

And we had Chris, of course, doing the John Corbett,

doing the wedding and that beautiful saying

at the wedding at the end, and well, they won't.

It's all this will they won't they?

We'll hollying and Shelley ever get together.

We'll fleshmen and O'Connell ever get together.

We'll Adam and Eve ever get together.

And it was just delightful.

But I also thought that, again, all those origami,

the lighting was beautiful, the origami was beautiful.

It was just a really, really terrific episode.

And so when you want to narrow down,

I'll toss it to you first, but I want to narrow down into our scenes

because I remember some of those.

Yeah, I mean, the cranes were beautiful.

I mean, the set, I keep was looking at the set

when you come into the church and you see those thousand cranes,

which is a, you know, traditional,

I think, Japanese for good luck.

A thousand cranes are hanging from the ceiling.

You know, it was so pretty.

And then the costumes and how

all the different secondary and tertiary colors were used.

And the men in those kind of silver pewter suits

and the women in those, in that kind of pink purple,

kind of floral looking, you know, pastel color.

You, and I, and everyone looks so great.

And you had a different hairdo.

You kind of these bangs.

And there was something about the, the light,

which we'll talk to our guests about the way it was lit.

And the color of the dress that just brought out your eyes,

your eyes were just like wildly.

You know, you look so beautiful.

And I remember, I remember thinking that when we were shooting it,

you know, I was just like I was able to step back.

But, but then seeing it again, it was,

there was some really great photography going on.

I just want to add to that, though,

that I thought you were extraordinarily handsome in the show, too.

You know, and, and your hair was kind of longer.

My hair is getting longer.

And, and we just, I just, there was just such a sensuality about it all.

And I really, I really loved what what the writing,

thank you, Andy and Diane, you know,

that happened between the two of us.

And that sexy scene on the couch.

Of course.

So the couch scene where I come in and say,

let's go ahead and do it.

And you're like, really?

I'm like, yeah, let's do it.

And then we, we kind of, you know,

start the, the preliminaries of that.

And then I find out that you really desire me.

And then I want to stop it, which was like crazy, right?

But there was something.

The thing that I think makes the show work is the way all of us

as cast members could play the underlying yin and yang of it.

The emotional layers we bring behind that.

Can you, can you imagine you were so forgiving and had such

sensitivity as well as being perturbed?

You know, I'm talking about the layers, the layers of the onion.

And in that scene where I'm kind of leading you on and I hear that, you know,

you want me and I want to go, that could have come off as really course.

You know, that could have come off as that, like I was taking advantage of you.

And then I was kind of cruel or whatever.

But the way, the way I played it, which I don't even remember anything about it.

I was watching, wondering how it ended because I really didn't remember.

Which is kind of what this innocence, it's like this fresh, kind of sweet innocence.

And I think that that made it work.

And you don't always see that out there in acting today.

You know, if you were to look at that, you would say,

do you want me, do you want me, do you want me fine?

I'm gone.

But I was just like, oh, freshman, do you want me?

It was just so sweet that you couldn't really get mad at her.

And then you were so sweet.

I couldn't really, do you know what I'm talking about?

I do, I know what you mean.

And I like that.

I think innocence is a good way to describe it.

I felt that there's the moment in the bar.

I think it's the first time we see each other in the episode.

And you're still kind of coquettish a little

about, you know, thinking that we slept together.

And the way you put your hair behind your ear

and you just have this sweet kind of innocence about this.

And it's such a contrast to the way

we think of Maggie in the world, you know.

And so, you know, to your credit, it makes us fascinated with Maggie

because she's just like, what is this little girl coming up?

You know, she's just a little girl wanting, you know,

to fall in love.

And it's sweet.

There's a lot of great, great moments.

But you had it too, and Rob,

and I thought you just handled it beautifully.

And the smoking of the cigar scene,

I thought was excellent when you're talking about women

and how confusing they are.

It was just beautifully, beautifully written.

But you know, for the actors out there that are listening,

it's just so, and I just recently cast something.

It's always fascinating to watch people

who bring a completely different take on it.

You know, something that's going from sort of their own.

And I'm sure Nick Mark directed us to and guided us

and whatnot, but just to not always hit the nail on the head,

to not bring the obvious to it,

to kind of bring all these other layers underneath.

You're right. It's tricky.

It's tricky to do, and it's so refreshing when you see it.

You know, there's such pressure in making these kind of shows

when you're just going in week in, week out, week in, week out,

that to take a chance and to go against the grain,

you know, and to get other people to sign on board with it

is always a, you know, you have to be really determined.

And Eve does that a lot.

I mean, she's got these such Valerie Mahaffee RIP as well.

God, they're all going, Jeanine.

Valerie Mahaffee passed away this year, I think.

And, you know, when she, I think you have a scene with her on this

treat, is it you?

And then she walks and she crosses the street and walks toward the brick

and she's just keeps.

No, that's what he knew.

Oh, it's a scene with you.

Oh, that's right.

You're right.

You take advantage of her like that and you're like,

how did you even know?

Right.

And then Adam, then she says, Adam tells.

Adam knows, of course.

But then she walks across the street and she's definitely

kind of, I think, ad libbing these kind of like, you know, frustrated.

Like she's talking to herself and she's, she's so adorable.

But that kind of thing too, it brings such, you know, brings you into the character.

So it's in a way that you don't expect.

Everybody had their vulnerabilities, right?

You had your vulnerability.

Maggie had her vulnerability.

Adam had his vulnerability.

She had her vulnerability, which really, I think,

surfaced when she was trying to fair whether to walk down the aisle or not.

Shelly had her vulnerability.

Call him had his vulnerability.

Everybody had their vulnerability.

And I think that was really, really fun.

And again, we were sort of, the engine was cranking, right?

We're now into the end of the third season.

The engine was, there was a comfortability about it all.

I'm so excited about our guests today.

You want to introduce Dave Fredrick?

I always call them David.

Yes, I guess he's already given it away.

But I'll, I will do that.

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David J. Fredrick, we know him as Dave,

was the A-camera operator on Northern Exposure

for I want to say the whole series.

He is now a director of photography and has shot

for so many amazing things.

I'm looking at the IMDB now.

He's got something called Between the Fall and Rise.

He's got something called Paul Enrede

Beyond Victor Laslow.

He did so long fire.

He was a visual effects producer.

Jay Kelly, which I love and want to talk about.

He was a second unit director of photography.

Business people, the age of disclosure, which I loved.

A documentary, I think I've talked to you,

Janine, about Aliens and um...

Oh, did you do that?

I did.

Oh my gosh, we have so much to talk about.

It'll be part two.

Reagan, survivor, FBI International.

His list goes on and ever.

He's right up there around Janine and my age.

And so he's done, he's just non-stop working.

Steady cam on Get Shorty.

It goes on and on and we just adore Dave

and we're so happy to have you here, buddy.

How are you?

Well, thank you very much.

That was a nice intro, Janine and Rob.

It's so...

Well, number one, a treat

to have been invited to join the disclosure.

Because what a great term to.

And just to see you guys.

I mean, just uh...

And listen to your preamble there.

Because I just absolutely adored that episode.

I watched the Sicily episode a little more,

but um...

Because that one was the one I got to show my stuff

as a director of photography in second unit.

And do the silver threads in the tapestry of the episode.

Do all of those great moments.

And I'm certain you've talked about that on some podcasts.

But this one in particular.

And there's so many funny little hooks

because, okay, first,

Rob and I met in New York before Northern Exposure

on a New York stage in film Short.

And I got, I was getting married

back then, my then pregnant fiance,

who is now my ex-wife.

She and I went sailing out to

Shelter Island to get married

by a local judge as we eloped

on the sailboat I bought for Morgan Freeman.

Many sidetracks on that story.

But anyway.

That's right. I remember. It's all coming back to me.

While I was there,

I am checking to see if my guest

that is going to come up, you know,

my best man, so to speak.

And the funny thing is,

because this is a wedding-related story.

If my best man is on his way,

taking the train out from New York

and my best man was a guy who was a camera assistant

who I worked all the time, Greg Collier.

And so Greg Collier,

he, I checked my answering machine

and listened to the tape.

And then, you know, I had to make the call to see.

He said he's on his way.

But there was this call from this director of photography

I'd work with on that New York stage

and film show named Frank Prinsey,

who wanted to know if I was available

to come and operate on this TV series in Washington,

which is one of the few states I'd been,

had not been to.

And I was like, wait, so you weren't there at the beginning?

I came with Frank, not with Heyman, right.

And then I didn't stay there with Gordon either,

because Gordon had other ideas.

And I was okay with that.

Well, I missed you.

Let me tell you that much.

And I miss being there a part of you.

So on the answering machine was that call from Frank.

So I called him and then of course,

when Greg showed up,

he said, hey, guess what, buddy?

We're going to do a show called Northern Exposure.

And so that was kind of an exciting way.

And then quickly wrapping up this little anecdote,

my new bride and I go there

and what do we need to do?

We need to get clothing in order to winter up in the mountains

of snow, call me up in the Northern Exposure Zone.

It wasn't, you know, the fake Alaska,

as we fondly called it.

So we go to the local REI,

which I think one of the first ones.

And who do I see across the clothing racks?

But you Rob, Rob, and you're like, holy shit,

and you used to call me Davey all the time.

Davey, what are you doing here?

And I was like, well, I'm on the Northern Exposure show

with you.

You're like, holy shit.

And the face lit up and it was just so wonderful.

And I was, I knew I was kind of in a new,

wonderful home for a while.

And it was a wonderful home.

I had a baby.

And you guys, you know, you came to the shower

and Jeanine threw the baby shower.

The story, and this is a wonderful little additional anecdote,

is that on our crew,

we had the first AD, an accountant,

myself, my, a second AD, sorry, the second AD, Rob,

a transbogra, yeah, Billy, Billy, Billy Powell,

whose dad was the transbogra, and he was a camera truck driver.

And maybe on one other one, I can't remember

if we're all having babies within two weeks of each other.

Wow, that's right.

And Jeanine, you threw this beautiful, absolutely.

And it was co-ed.

So I walked in that room and I never felt so much estrogen,

just delightfully, you know,

because we're in the whole world.

It was amazing.

That's a great way to show up on that show.

And then, of course, it was a wonderful thing,

every single thing.

And this episode was terrific.

And you guys were talking about all the different couples.

And the story really was, of course,

about Adam playing Adam.

And I don't know, I kept in touch with him.

I worked with him a lot, probably after that.

Adam and Eve, as well as

Hauling and Shelley.

And then Maurice and Barbara was her name?

Yes, Samansky, yeah.

Yeah.

And then, obviously, you guys.

So it was a really cleverly written premise.

Now they blended it well, didn't they?

They blended those, it was seamless.

It was just seamless.

I love that Adam wanted a traditional wedding.

That to me jumped out.

It's like, he's such a, he's so full of contradictions.

So we know with the timeline of how long ago this was,

is because there's a physical representation

of my son, Colin, who was then born.

And he was, and he's just turned 34.

Oh my God.

You know what I remember?

I remember, David.

You were on the show and you had a birthday, too.

There's so many things, I don't know if you've been listening,

but I talk about you so often.

I quote you all the time.

I'll tell you why.

But I remember that you had your birthday.

And I think you were 33 and you said

that the year Jesus died, I just remember that.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Yeah, okay.

I was 33.

I'm 30.

Was it Jesus died 33?

Yeah, it was like the year Jesus died.

And I'm like, oh, wow.

And I just remember, so I guess you were 33.

At some point we were together.

I mean, Rob and I hit 30.

I think we were, but I think I was still 29

when we were filming this, but I guess you were somewhere

in the two years we worked together.

You hit your 33rd.

Do you remember that?

Yeah, the Jesus year.

That my sister was always calling at that.

The Jesus year.

Uh, okay.

And then the funny thing about you asking me to comment on

and we'll talk about the show.

And I'm delighted to the wedding is that, okay,

so I went many years.

So Collins mother and he had another brother

who was also born on a TV series in Hawaii called Marker

with Richard Greco for UPN.

But that was in 95.

Uh, then, um, so many years go by and then,

and it's like 27 years or so.

But we did finally get separated and then divorced.

And then I met this young lady, um, uh, who, uh, we just got married.

And December 27th and we went to Prague.

And, uh, this is her.

And we, uh, rented costumes from the, um,

my goodness.

From the studio, the barrened off studio and the age of innocence

and, uh, paraded round and, uh, she's beautiful.

Yeah.

Jenny McShane, gorgeous lady and very talented actress in many movies.

Uh, but now she does visual effects.

Were you a single for all those years in between?

Let's just say not married.

Not me.

Yeah, you're okay.

That's a very old exposure type of term.

It fits with this show.

Well, congratulations.

And you know, David at Robbie Field,

it just indulged me for a second.

You heard me say it a thousand times.

But David, before it was right about this episode,

probably this episode, because it was before Sicily,

it was probably was this episode.

I knew I was going to be doing cliffhanger, right?

Or right around, I knew I think I was negotiating for cliffhanger.

And then there's this amazing story about how I got out

of Northern exposure for Sicily because they weren't going to let me out.

Um, so Sicily, when I knew I had it for sure.

But I went and bought these cameras.

You probably don't remember this at all.

It was a Canon camera and I had interchangeable lenses.

And I'm on the set with you and you look down at me

and I've quoted you a thousand million times

to when I teach students and whatnot.

But it's like, do you, and you said to me, remember,

do you want to take a picture or make a picture?

Do you remember saying that to me?

Yeah, of course.

I still say that.

It's the whole idea of actually committing to what height,

not just, I mean, with selfies and iPhones

and all the other ubiquitousness of that kind of digital photography.

Now it's, it's a different story.

But still you can still make a photograph.

You don't just take.

It's like grabbing.

Now sometimes you need to grab an image.

So wait, so elaborate, elaborate,

because Janine has, has said this many times.

And I know what it means on the surface.

But for our audience, elaborate what you mean by make a picture

versus take a picture.

It's a creative decision.

It's a creative instinct.

Instead of grabbing just a frame like, you know,

centering somebody in the frame, it's like, okay,

what is the element of a photograph that best tells the story?

Is it, you know, the angle, the width of the field of view?

So what lens are you going to choose?

What are your exposures?

What is, and specifically, what height do you want to get low?

Do you want to emphasize somebody?

You want to get high?

Look down on it.

You're moving closer.

Go in wider.

Things that you need to think about when you embrace

committing something to an image that you will either love.

I mean, this example right here.

Now that is a photograph that was made versus just.

Oh, yeah.

Like in the depth of field with all the arches,

like, you know, I really, I really love that.

It would be the rhetoric of that, you know,

of that photograph is it's the metaphor of the future, you know,

of those arches that you're going through.

You know, there's such rhetoric in that.

The repetition, when I say rhetoric,

I mean, repetition of symbols and things like that.

And it translates to cinematography.

And as a cinematographer, that's the constant dialogue in your head.

And one of the cinematographers I've worked with,

David Mullin, who has now been bringing delight,

and I think he's doing it 12 now,

but we worked on Get Shorty together.

So that's where you worked with Adam.

And that's where one of the places I worked with Adam.

I would watch him with the director's find or looking at it,

and then holding his chest and ruminating just,

and I could see him running film clips in his head

of different things that he's seen in order to have an impression

and tell the best to do it.

And I'm sitting there as the camera operator with the dolly grip going,

oh my God, it's just going to take another 10 minutes

because we want to get going.

We know exactly what we're going to do

and what we need to do in order to get the day made.

You know, in the sense that that's a whole other thing.

It's like in television, you learn to hone your craft

with precision and speed.

Yeah, and that's what we had to learn as actors, too.

And I ended up taking all these pictures in Italy

when I was filming Clifffinger that I blew up

because it was filming.

You can't.

Huge.

There's one right here, and one downstairs,

and all that, and it's just, you taught me that.

I was thrilled to hear that when you came back

and talked to me about that.

Yes, and I showed you all the pictures, I'm sure, right?

Yep, yep.

You taught me that.

And I think that's what you and Frank did

for the two years you were with the show.

It was like every shot was beautiful.

And when you left, I got so mad

when a shot would be set up on an electrical cord coming out the back.

You know, there just wasn't the kind of artistry

given to actually creating and setting that the shot

to something beautiful.

And when I directed, I remembered you,

and there was a shot of these windmills

and these old dirt roads,

but there was a sunflower on the left hand side.

And the senator talked for those working with,

had framed it out and said,

oh, no, no, no, frame that,

frame that a bit of that sunflower on the left side.

So you taught me that, David.

But also taught me a lot.

I mean, if you remember, Dave,

I was always hanging out in the camera room.

Like, that's where you would find me on the wheels,

that, you know, playing with the wheels,

trying to learn how to write my name, you know.

And you guys, you know, you were so generous with your knowledge.

And I learned a lot.

I mean, I had already studied photography,

but I became a director shortly after.

And a lot of it was stuff that you would share with me.

Why something was being done?

Why something was being shot that way?

And I'm very honored by both of your comments on that.

Thank you.

And it's a collaborative,

truly is a collaborative business.

I mean, the success of it is the collaboration of all of the work.

And when you look at Northern Exposure episodes,

you see the incredible work of Woody Crocker and Ken Berg.

The production designer, Woody Crocker,

and then Ken Berg, the art director,

who I then worked with on Felicity,

just on my entry to Los Angeles.

I did a couple of years on Felicity as a camera operator.

And Ken was just an amazing person.

Building all the Traybushes.

And that, oh, I actually, so I ran it to John Corbett.

And we were like, you know, our jaws dropped big hugs.

I know it's just so great to talk about that.

And so we're texting back and forth.

And I sent him a clip from the Traybushe episode.

And just that whole magical, insanely clever machine

that that art department made.

They actually brought people over from London to build that.

They assisted, but they had some real experts

that they had to fly in.

And a guy named John Wayne, something,

his name literally John Wayne was brought over to build it.

And they had the three, there were three takes,

which we flew a weighted coffin.

And there was one practice that they did,

you know, after they set it up.

And did you know all four of those caskets

were on top of each other?

What do you mean?

They flew through the air.

They flew through the air.

And they led them in the exact same spot.

Oh wow.

So the precision, yeah.

The precision and accuracy of that, you know,

a historically maniacal war machine was just so well done.

Is the great line from that is not what you fling.

It's the fling itself.

It's so true, isn't it?

Yeah.

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So I want to just read a little, you know,

Jeanine loves to write down the lines,

some of the lines from the show.

And I don't know if you wrote this one down, Jeanine,

but it's pretty great.

And I think I may be a little out of order

because I had to get it all,

but you are going off, Jeanine Maggie,

pissed off at me when you find out that

we didn't sleep together, which I tried to tell you,

but you wouldn't hear.

And so when you finally realize it, you say,

I'm pleased it happened.

You miserable, sadistic, terrible creep.

You maggot fly, a pimple of boil and abs is you're a snake,

you're a rat, you're a pig, you're a slime,

you're a slime, you're scum.

You hateful, despicable worm.

That went on some, yes.

And then they were, you know,

and I guess then you started throwing things at them.

And one thing I noticed is you had the bandaid over your left eye,

but yet the thing that hit you was over here.

So I was like, oh, okay, I didn't catch that.

But it's funny, but one inch, one inch,

and you could have taken an eye out, put an eye out.

But the preamble to that was the scene when you were coming out

in Ruth, Ruth, Ruth Lins, Ruth Anz, Ruth Anz, Ruth Anz, Ruth Anz.

And that was what's the thing I wanted to talk about was these amazing 300 foot long

dolly shots that we would do.

And then there would be the moment that you would have to pause.

And then we'd, you know, go back and oh, the reverse angle on it.

And that was how we got through our days because we did these huge.

And those are like three-page dialogue scenes, if not more.

And they were fun to act, you know, like that one has me coming out of my office,

takes me all the way across the street.

And then we pick up and it just keeps going on and on.

And then I think it even reverses back.

It's a one, they were hard to set up.

They took a long time because back then it was, you know,

it was tracks and wedges and and it made it so cinematic, you know,

because it wasn't just cuts and it wasn't just the camera.

It was also the big, the BFLs, which is the,

you know, the big frickin' lights that were on also a dolly moving in the old days,

like on, you know, giant and in how the West was won.

And those things when you have these beautiful lighting things on,

and we're doing exterior shots.

And so that was pretty amazing.

And you get to see the town, you see the dogs come through.

There's so much life in the town.

And we orchestrate the wipes, the guy with the ladder,

just as we're going this way, the ladder's going that way.

And yeah, pretty amazing.

So that was pretty great.

But George Santo Pietro, I wanted to run you.

Yeah, I was just thinking about George Santo Pietro.

George the dolly grip just was so,

well, number one, one of the strongest guys in Seattle,

just his arms were thicker than my legs.

But he was one of the most talented dolly grips I've ever worked with,

historically, and just a terrific guy.

And a great guy, you know.

And you get so spoiled when we had the luxury of working with one another,

some of the greatest writers, great cast, great crew, great cinematographers.

And then you do things later.

And it's just like, you watch how things fall apart and they don't work the way they,

you miss the magic, you miss the magic, they miss the magic.

And I'm editing something right now.

Like, oh, you know, we didn't get that camera shot, you know, we miss the magic.

And the magic was there.

It's a way, it's a wonderful way of putting it with the, with the great,

the great team that we had.

And I was getting my hair done right before this episode.

And she hadn't seen Northern exposure before.

And we, Rob and I, you walked, you and I walked out of Ruth Ann's store

and had our, you know, walk and talk.

And I said to her, this is an iconic,

fly shamanoconal type of scene,

because we had so many of those, didn't we, Rob?

Yeah. And there was so precise because you had to,

if one of us messed up a line, it was back to one.

And you'd look at George sent, you'd look at his eyes and think,

you know, and it was either freezing or boiling.

And he'd have to push that.

How much is a dolly with a camera and rig way?

I mean, what, like a lot, right?

Well, I was skinnier back then, but well, we had the camera.

And those were something called pipe dolly.

So there was a, it was a sled that had roller skate wheel chassis,

things that then the whole thing would go in there.

So the dolly would go on that because no, you don't want to run

that the railroad track with all the wages and stuff.

If you want to put down the big, wide platform,

because typically also the sound man will be on that with the boom.

Glenn, Glenn sound, I called him.

Glenn, Glenn, yep, yep, yeah.

And the dolly grip is pushing the whole thing.

I mean, usually a couple guys, they had, they're, they're,

he's got help.

They have the pipes coming off the side, right?

Right, especially if it's a fast move,

because that's the better way to do the fast moves.

And so, yeah, so that George was, was terrific.

But then somebody else I wanted to shout out to

was our first AD, Jim Charleston.

Oh, he was wonderful.

Was just, and he's a director as well at this point, but you did?

Yeah, oh, good.

But I don't know if some of, talk about quotes, you know,

Janine, you were fond of the quotes.

And I, one I use also is, well, his, because you said,

whether or not it's, when we're shooting on location there,

one of his hurt things would say, hurry up.

The pass is closing.

Yes, I was just going to say that.

And you were saying that the pass, the pass is closing.

We got to go, we got to go.

Because at one point, I think we did.

I mean, that one of that season or one of the other ones,

we did actually, the pass did close.

And we had to stay over.

And the following day, and this is another credit

to production designer, Woody Crocker.

The following day, we had to shoot in your office

or Ruthlyn's store, Ruth Ann's store.

And they, they were able to, or the radio station,

able to jump into unlocation studios while filming.

Right, because they had three, they had three or four,

three or four sets that were reproduced on sound stages.

My office, Ruth Ann's, and the radio station.

So you could shoot either, depending on the schedule

and logistics, you could either shoot the scenes

interior on location, or you could shoot them

on the, on the sound stage.

And it was like, and the furniture had to be trucked

back and forth.

So the lead, the lead department, you know,

in the art, the set decorators were,

I don't think there was two sets of your,

your version of the famous, the famous desk, you know,

and, and, and the president's office.

But, you know, your desk and all the other stuff that's in there.

Yeah, the resolute desk, good for you.

Um, but the other thing that he said, uh,

that I always use is let me check my list of excuses.

That's a Jim Charleston original.

I love that.

I'm going to steal that one.

That's really good.

No, if the producer was going, Jim, why are we going?

What's going on?

Let me check my list of excuses.

Yeah, it is so rare.

It's so rare to find a first assistant director who,

he was basically the, the one who runs the show, you know,

he's the one, the ship.

The, the trains run on time with the first assistant director.

Uh, there has a sense of humor that, that can just execute it

in such a way that everybody feels comfortable.

And yet it gets done at the same time.

He was, he was a true, true Jim.

He really was.

And I want to talk about, you know, Greg,

who did the focus pull and how different it was back then.

I mean, I mean, uh, you know, now they shoot a laser at you.

But back then it was actually, you know, taking this tape, the,

the tape cloth tape measure, cloth tape measure out to measure it.

And then, you know, Frank would come up with his little light,

you know, and go like this.

And it was just so different.

And I was watching the show, um, with my hairdresser again,

who had never seen the show.

And I like, look at the beauty of film.

Look at the beauty of film.

I still don't think we've talked about this Rob and I,

but you can't really replace it.

But just I kind of miss all that old fashioned stuff.

You know, now the, now it's like they put a laser,

put a laser, point a laser laser at you.

And it's, it's a little bit different.

It's, it doesn't kind of have the charm it used to have.

But Greg always just did the camera pulling.

Yeah, he was great.

Well, I kind of brought him along with me.

Um, he turned me down and driving Miss Daisy,

which was my last job as a focus puller,

because he had a bunch of commercials to do.

But he did a bunch of movies with me as my second assistant.

And then, uh, I knew him as a good focus puller,

so I could pop him up into be camera.

And then it was a natural for me to say,

hey, come and do this, move this TV show with me.

And Greg was a great guy.

A great guy family.

We just, I introduced him to his, uh, his girlfriend there,

which became, they're still married, son.

Sonja, they're still together.

It's amazing.

Yeah, we had me on a couple episodes ago.

And she was talking about that.

Yeah, yep, that was me.

I did that because I thought she was great.

And I was like, yes, I did.

But, um, Rob, there's one thing that we're talking.

We're, we're, um, you know, patting each other on the back.

And I wanted to say one thing.

And I use this as a teaching moment when I talk to, um,

I do a lot of variety of different teaching things

that a lot of the university is in it.

The NAB and wherever they ask me, what's the NAB?

NAB is a national association of broadcasters.

And so it's a big Las Vegas, uh,

fills the entire convention center,

every floor space available of all the tech.

And, you know, it's broadcasting and all that stuff.

But, so I do, for Chapman Leonard,

the big Dolly and Crane company, um,

I do, uh, how to break down the script from state,

from script to screen and put it on stage

and how to, what, you know, equipment you're going to need

and when you break it down for either stuns

or romance comedy, whatever it is, you know,

the scene, which is, do a scene

and just, what does it take to do it?

You're talking about from a technical perspective.

Yes, artistic technical perspectives,

a director of photography and, um,

because we're responsible in our prep, you know,

for getting all that stuff orchestrated, you know.

Right, could you have to order?

Right, what camera equipment, what lights you might need, all that, yeah.

Yep, yep, yep.

And so one of the things I always, uh,

and I impress and even on this last film,

it's like working with the actors.

It is so critical, the relationship,

to be able to understand the creative potential

because this business is so myopic.

Everybody is in it for their own game.

And it's like, I worked with 1DP, um,

on a thing, um, Women's Murder Club.

And I came back from a lot, uh,

from getting my city camera ready and all the lights were in the frame.

And I said, John, how am I going to keep that stuff out of frame?

I've got a walk and talk five shot of, you know,

and of all these, you know, uh,

Cynthia Nixon was one of them.

And a bunch of, uh, the actors, um,

anyway, and he goes, David, boom up.

And I was like, what, you know, and he goes,

it's a selfish business because he goes,

I have five women.

I have to make gorgeous.

And I need all of these little, you know,

the, what do you call the Chinese lanterns?

Because that's the soft light he liked to use.

And would, but anyway, selfish business.

So, um, so I'm just going back to it.

So what I learned from you, Rob,

was that in, um,

deference to everybody has their, uh,

preparation.

Everybody needs to have their ingredients to what is going to make it work for them.

So you're, you know, everybody doesn't realize, but

when you're not on the set, you're learning your lines.

You're working out what you're going to do when you're fun at the camera.

And that's a lot of concentration.

And to not respect that is completely crazy.

So I think you had a longer turnaround for some reason or the other.

Thank God for the 12 hour turnaround.

Thank God for the 12 hour turnaround.

That means that actors get, uh, through mandated through our,

our union screen actors guild sag after a,

we get 12 hours from when we leave the set to when we have to be back.

Or they pay a lot of money.

Or they pay, pay a lot of money.

And I remember when I was a really young actor,

I would like to be so grateful to get those, those, uh,

force calls they're called because she'd pick up a thousand dollars for, you know,

and I'd always be like, yeah, I'll take it.

I'll take it. But then at a certain point,

you're like, no, I'm not doing any force calls because you, you, you can't breathe.

You know, you need, you need, you need to, to rest and learn all your lines for the next day.

And it gives, it gives us Dave.

Dave is saying it gives the crew a little bit of time too.

But so anyway, so we're, we're all at our call time.

And there's a new director and I'm not going to remember his name,

but a younger, newer director.

Not so young and not so new because experience,

but he was a TV director and he was a guy who knew he had to get his day done.

So Rob had a later call and was, you know, so we, we,

had, we were assembled and typically, you know, so everybody knows is,

we have a rehearsal, a blocking rehearsal, you know,

actor director rehearsal and a blocking rehearsal and then a technical rehearsal, you know.

So everybody gets called in all the keys and everybody gets to watch it so that we can see where,

you know, the microphone has to go and where the lighting is going to go, blah, blah, blah.

And so the director wanted to jump right in and do all that stuff and he goes,

no, no, I have all this spoken out and it was a scene in your office in the,

in the, on the, on the stage.

And so I mean, that for us lighting was pretty easy.

We had these gigantic maxi breads that would go through like three layers of diffusion

and then big flags that would block off to make it shadowed and shape it.

So all the lights, the walls were to bright.

But here's what happened.

Was Rob Foley comes to set?

He's in his costume and I believe and he shows up on set.

And the director had the ball and I recommend it against it.

I swear to God, Rob, I recommend it against it.

And I said, Rob's not going to like this.

He goes, no, no, no, and he worked with Peter, Peter White, I believe,

or you're standing for years.

That's his last name.

We couldn't last week and I was trying to, he showed up in the last episode.

They let him have a scene and I couldn't remember his last name.

A great guy, Peter White.

Wonderful.

And he knew you and he was like, oh my god, he looked at me like,

I'm getting in trouble.

I said, don't worry.

It's not your fault.

So the director says, yeah, he's going to be over here.

And he's going to go over there and they're okay.

Now it's start to light it and you want and then and then and their second

A.D.s and you would say and he called for marks.

The director called for marks and Marilyn was there.

But you know, it's just, you know, you, you just had three moves.

You walked in, Rob.

You took one, you said hello to everybody.

Then you looked down in the tape and there is your, I think you were red

because you're number one on the call sheet.

Do you know that red and is always number one, right?

I didn't realize that.

Yep.

And blue is number two.

So you were probably always blue.

I think.

Do you remember Janine?

What color your marks were?

I don't. I know I was number three in the call sheet because I think

Barry was technically.

Oh, you were three.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

We're going away.

I'm going away.

Yellow.

Yellow.

Okay.

I was yellow.

Anyway, I mean, that's kind of one of those little things.

But so you walk in.

You eyed.

You saw the marks down there and you said, oh, you did this with Peter.

Okay.

Well, Pete, you got this side.

You know the lines.

You do the scene.

You walked out.

And you just turned the back.

And you just gave your back to the guy you walked back your trailer.

And it was about an hour at least.

And I think whoever was in charge,

whoever was the parents of the day,

whether it was Alan or Matt, you know,

two lovely guys would come out there and little hand ringing.

By the way, that's an asshole move.

And unnecessary.

And I was a jerk, you know, for doing that,

if I did that in that way.

And I probably did because I was very idealistic at the time.

And it is not the way it doesn't, it doesn't serve.

And so even though I may have been right,

it wasn't the right way to deal with it.

And so now what I would say is listen,

here's what would work better for me.

Can we accommodate that?

And if he'd say no, I'd say, okay,

well, next time maybe let me know what you're planning

so I can weigh in on it.

That's the way to do it for for you young actors out there.

Not the way I did it.

Well, but to be really fair, it's disrespectful.

Two wrongs don't make a right is my point.

So to be for yes, I was maybe disrespected,

although I don't think that was the intention of that director.

I think it was just his economy and trying to get the day.

But me disrespecting him back didn't help.

And as you say, we lost an hour,

which kills everybody, then Janine's coming in and waiting,

like, why am I not shooting?

And it's not good.

Well, we learned a lot in 30 years.

And we're in our 60s now and we can look back and say,

oh, I guess I could have done that differently.

But I think what would happen is that we would talk about this a lot.

A lot of the USC film school directors would come out.

And they would know how to work the cameras.

But they didn't take enough time to teach those new directors

coming out of USC, how to work with actors.

And the best directors of the ones who would go in

and take acting classes, they would actually immerse themselves

into what is the perspective from the actor's standpoint.

And I think that's what Rob and you and I,

we all of us learn as we become veterans in the business,

is the collaboration and to look at things from other people's points

of view and what they need.

Well, the camera might actually need the two of us

squished together here, even though it doesn't feel quite right.

But it's once again, it's that mutual respect

and that collaboration that comes around with everybody.

So sometimes that was probably a good lesson

for that director, actually.

You know, okay, I shouldn't block it without taking time

to consult about how the actors feel.

Because that was a big part of it.

This is first day.

Right, I'm in the DGA mentor program.

So I'm mentoring a young, young coming director.

And I keep telling him,

go, you know, he is actually taking acting classes

because and when I made this movie once

where Martin Scorsese was in it and he was acting.

And I was like, why do you, why are you acting?

Like, and he said the only reason I'm here

is because I want to know what you guys go through.

I want to feel it, like, you know, and so I really tell

any of you would be directors out there,

go study acting so you understand

because it's, it's tricky to do what we have to do.

And to do it day in, day out, you know, on that schedule.

Right. And the director, the director comes in with a list

of kind of shots where he thinks he wants, you know,

he or she are thinking they need to, they need that.

They need to be prepared and have their shot list.

But then the great test is then to bring the actors in

and then all the rest of the crew and say, what works?

It's that ability.

It's one of my favorite words in the world, right,

is to collaborate.

It's a ability to say, okay, but you have to think of everyone

because it is awkward as an actor.

If you know, it's to walk in and say, wait, I'm standing.

That didn't wait.

What you want me to stand there?

Especially when we're about 40, 50, 50, 60 episodes into it.

I mean, you know, and any director that steps into that world

with actors and a crew who've been working together

for that amount of time, who just know their character inside it out.

That that was a, yeah, it's a, it's a scary position

for a director to walk into like an acting treat like that

that knows exactly what they want and how they want it.

As a cinematographer, when you're working

and you're watching the first blocking rehearsal,

I always take a clue from where the director is standing.

Now, that's going to be probably where it is.

However, if the director has the windows behind him,

I would say very gently, have you looked at it from over here

and come around and say, if you put the windows in the background,

well, we actually have a, you know,

motivation blah, blah, blah, oh, oh, sorry, sorry,

just because they're just thinking about the people living at space.

Dave, let me ask you what what having watched the show,

I guess you watched it last night, right?

Or today, what jumped out of you in terms of the way things were shot

and direct, like, you know, I mean, the, the beauty of the,

the cranes and the church, right?

That was beautiful little sequence.

The dolly shots you talked about.

Well, the big difference between stuff we're looking at now

on streamers and is all the hard-edged sharpness

and the way that the film that we use back then,

the Kodak film that you use back then and the lenses

and the motion picture cameras,

the way that they actually captured the images

is completely not there now.

Wait, you're saying that that, that the old way was softer edges?

So pretty. I mean, so pretty.

I mean, you, Janine, you were talking about

that scene in when you show up at Rob's house

and you're like, you know, let's do it.

And then you start making it out on the couch.

We had a high angle shot looking down at you

that was just so, if you don't mind me saying creamy

and soft and gorgeous load, you know,

we were very sensitive as to the right angle of the camera.

So we don't see under your neck and all of things

and the soft light and just the shape of the light

and just, you know, just the right amount of pillow

and all those things, you, well, those things you do

in still in these days.

However, the way that the film works

and the focus pulling and just the operation

with the camera with the eye on the eyepiece

versus looking at a monitor, which is a lot

a bit easier and less neck injury.

However, I just did a film, a film film feature film

look and I was operating looking through the camera

and it was just so wonderful to see the flickering image again.

And so when I watched the episode last night,

seeing that scene there, seeing the big long dolly shots

knowing that there was a big light on it,

not going with the available light

because you can with the sensors now

because we're shooting at film speeds

that are like 125 ASA day exterior

and you need to put some light down on it, you know,

the ectochrome or even just the normal tungsten film

and all of the night ex interiors

or the night exteriors, just beautiful,

beautiful filmic lighting.

So that's what jumps out Rob to answer that question

is the difference of the techniques that are used back then

and now and I'm so happy that I didn't have to assist

as a camera assistant in the digital day

because now this cameras are like a spaghetti factory.

So many cables going all over the place

and the only thing that we had on our northern exposure was

a power cable, you know.

So it was a hand on the lens,

it was not remote control focus, you know,

hand on the lens, Greg was next to the camera.

There was an intimacy.

Exactly and when you finished the scene,

and I likened this one, I was a camera assistant,

the first person you look up at is the focus polar.

It's a skill that I've never been able to understand how

we're talking about a guy who's standing next to the camera

with his hand on a wheel.

He's not looking through the lens.

He's got his hand on the wheel that controls the focus

and he's gauging by his sense of where someone moves

in the frame of how incrementally he has to dial the frame

if they're on a long lens.

You know, it's that much more crucial.

And it's a job I've never, I still to this day.

I mean, I've done a zillion things.

I've did something I've never understood.

And it's so hard because I remember when I first started

shooting in Canada, we used to have to do ten

because the crews weren't deep at that point.

Now they have deep crews, meaning there's every company

has experience in the ranks.

And so we would have to do ten takes because the focus polar.

You'd be like, wait, what?

Another take because it's out of focus.

And so it's a real skill that I guess is waning.

I looked at those those shots on the couch

and I thought how beautiful they are.

Those those were so beautiful.

And it's true, and it just doesn't come organically.

I mean, it's you're right.

It was the angle, the pillows, the light,

the coming at the right angle.

And as an actor or an actress,

you know, those can make a break your entire career.

You know what I mean?

Especially as a woman.

And so the fact that you took all that time

because I did think those were pretty dreamy shots.

And even on Rob, and it just made the whole thing.

It made the whole scene so sensuous.

And it made it then so sweet.

It's kind of grabbing our talking about the beginning

to come full circle.

It's all like everybody putting their art to the form

that made that.

If you had shot that in a really bad camera angle

or, you know, bad lighting,

it didn't really matter how sweet I was,

it wasn't going to have the same effect

then when you put it all together.

And Rob was so and it just was a very sexy,

sensuous, beautiful scene.

And I'm really glad you described how that happens

because it's not just, you know,

the plop in a camera there.

And unfortunately, it was,

I'm thank you for describing that.

And the shot in the brick,

in the brick, one other thing,

talking about focus and camera use.

It's, now shelly has been given her task

as being the made of honor.

And so she's now preparing the famous blue and white umbrellas

on the cupcakes.

And so the shot opens up

with a beautiful close-up of the tray of cupcakes

and then the focus drops.

Same frames, focus drops to hauling coming

through the back of the kitchen,

coming up to talk into a two shot,

which was a delightful and you,

God, John is just such a wonderful,

wonderful actor.

His subtleties of his thing.

And then the setup for the neck thing

and Adam doing his car practice adjustment.

I think he actually did them for real.

Adam used to give me adjustments.

I think he really did them.

He learned his process because it wasn't a scene.

He had to learn it.

But then for the three things that he spouted out

to Valerie at the end,

what did I marry?

What am I doing to myself?

And you know, the fact that he times her food

and he physio-physiotherapy.

I was like, this is why I'm the best husband, you know?

I love what he says.

He says, he says,

why was I cursed with this misery?

Why was I cursed with this misery?

You're a knife in my heart.

And then he takes it.

Then he takes a great beat,

only the way Adam can.

And then he says,

let's just discuss this later and get married.

Right.

Right.

Right.

When you got to give it to the writing,

you got to give it to Andy and Diane too.

I mean, it was not on the page.

It's not on the stage.

And I think this is one of their greatest,

one of their greatest episodes.

It was just really, really there.

But yeah, I just thought it was performed well,

shot well, written well.

It was, the music was great.

You listen to all that jazz music going

on the background.

Oh, God, but jazz to Vivaldi to like swing,

you know, to the, what's his name?

Benny Goodman.

And by the way, the last shot

talk about cinematography is so, you know,

this, I guess the last sequence

with the bouquet going through the air.

And then it's the ground.

No one wants to go near it.

And they ends on that.

It's a beautiful,

a beautifully directed little sequence.

And even Corbett doing his one,

I'm going to get my foot right in that and get out,

you know,

guess that they've, you know, he's the last,

he's the last image.

And I love what he says.

He says when there he's marrying them,

you know, he's the way he finishes the ceremony.

He just looks at them both and goes,

you guys cool with that?

Yep.

Well, I'll tell you a little tidbit

of my daughter's wedding.

She just, she was married in 2024.

She threw the bouquet from the balcony

and it fell on the floor.

And here are all these girls.

You know, all of her bridesmaids

wanting to get married next.

I ran and picked it up.

I'm like, I got it.

It's pretty funny.

Did it work?

No, I'm not married yet.

So I guess it hasn't worked.

But, you know,

it ain't over till it's over.

As my dad used to say,

you'll, you'll keep air 57.

But I gave it, I gave it to one of her best friends

who's desperate to get married.

So I, I handed over the torch.

Did she get married yet?

No.

All right, so much.

Maybe we all should have stepped back from it.

It was a wonderful, though,

that, that ending of that episode

was just absolutely perfect, you know?

Yeah.

It was just the best thing.

And then one thing when I,

I enjoyed seeing Chris

at the radio station, you know,

John and working with John,

which, you know,

those were really, he had pages

that, which huge paragraphs.

Amazing.

I'm so amazed with all of his,

all of his speeches now

watching them in retrospect.

It's just how wonderfully delivered they were.

And I remember he was always free.

You know, he'd come in and just be like,

oh, you know, he'd have such a huge load of lines

and it ended up being so perfect.

Well, I'm going to tell you I had a hand in that,

you know, how to happen.

So I did.

I started out in radio.

And I said, and, and we're doing these

very complicated dolly shots,

which are like in that small space.

So they'd have to build these platforms

in order to do the circular tracking shots

which would involve a slide zoom in,

zoom out in order to keep the size

and all that.

And they were tricky and start high and get low.

So again, staying on the eyepiece,

they were gymnastics.

And I was like, felt really accomplished at the end.

But then you would have a big gaffuffle.

And I was like, okay, okay.

How are we going to, how are we going to handle this?

So I go up to John.

I said, John, one of the least something

is when I was in radio,

we're behind a mic like you are,

but we're reading nearly everything.

And so what if we do this?

What if we take your little scripts,

your little sides, chop them up

and put them into different spaces?

Because it doesn't need to read them.

He just needs the reminder, you know.

And he's like, and you're shuffling a piece of paper around.

And, you know, and just, and he was like,

oh, you don't see them.

You watch see them.

I went, no, we're going to make sure that we don't.

And it's like, holy shit.

So boom, that was it.

The connection was made.

And it was just in order to reinforce him

while he does memorize it.

But it's a lot of stuff going on that, you know,

remembering the timing and all that.

So those little things were really happy.

A lot of big names, big names, big philosophy.

You know, it's a lot of crazy things

that they, they utilize.

It's a character guard.

Well, now, now we know.

Now we know that's a great behind the scenes tip.

I mean, I just worked with Billy Zane on this feature.

And he was suffering us through cue cards.

And it was like, oh, God.

And he was like, no, they have to be there.

And you've got to do the quietly.

And I'm like, okay.

But he's a lovely guy.

And then Tyrese Gibson was there.

And he wore an earwig.

And he had a friend who was on the other,

on the other end of that just

whispering little reminders.

What I've learned is whatever works.

If it works, it works.

I would memorize lines by spelling something in my head.

The same way I did essays.

You know, if I had a subject

and I had to write four paragraphs,

I would, you know, do an anagram.

What's it called?

You know, gosh, you know, but yeah, you spell something.

So I'd spell, let's say five paragraphs.

Smile.

So ask, would stand for this?

And I would go in and do that.

And I would do that with a lot of the lyrics.

It's like, okay, the L comes before the M.

I'm not lyrics, but the lines.

L comes before the M.

And then there's the N or this in alliteration.

And I'm going to do that.

That's how I would do it in my head.

I would make associations of the different lines.

You guys always came to work very prepared.

And Rob, you were always off-book.

Yeah, that's just the way I came up.

But there's not the only way to do it.

But I got to say, David, we got to wrap it up.

But man, just, we could talk to you for hours, you know,

likewise.

So I hope we come together on some project

or socially and we can just continue.

Well, back on.

Come back on our show.

You guys are directors.

You can pull the strings.

You know, yeah, come back on the show.

It's because your stories were fantastic.

And we'll close with showing everyone at my 30th birthday party.

David and his wife showed up with this beautiful birdhouse.

Look at this.

So cool.

It was your first wife.

It was Sandra's.

Sonia.

Sonia.

I always keep her Sandra.

Sonia's brother, right?

Eric, who built that.

Yeah, he was a very handy.

David said, well, has a bird ever nested in it?

And I said, well, I never put it outside.

It's too beautiful.

So I have it in on display.

Well, maybe you can find a place under an Eve to mount it.

Yeah.

Well, there's a little ran out there that just tried to nest

in my, my blanket that was out there drawing.

So she may really like that.

I may put that out for her this year.

And if a tornado comes, I'm just going to run out and grab it.

Bird and all.

Well, thank you very much for inviting me along.

It was a really nice journey and so nice to share all this stuff.

Great to see you, David.

Rob, always, always so much fun.

So we're going to wrap this episode.

We'll see you next week.

We have Cheryl Block, one of our fabulous producers.

He was there from day one.

She's going to be on our show next week to talk about Sicily,

which was the episode that was where you know, went back in time.

So we look forward to that.

And so for now, we're going to wrap the show.

And this is Northern disclosure with O'Connell and Fleischman.

Actually, I think it should be Fleischman, O'Connell.

In your dream, Fleischman.

Northern disclosure is a production with evergreen podcasts

and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

Hi, I'm Will Wheaton.

And I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series,

It's Storytime with Will Wheaton.

You may recognize my name from my acting work.

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or from a movie called Stand By Me.

You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated,

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When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories.

And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor,

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And to my delight, he gave me his blessing.

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It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you

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Hold from the pages of Uncanny magazine,

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You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love,

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