REX Recommends - Kelly Wilson

0:00This is a podcast from Rover. Rover! Rural exchange. With Netspeed. Internet till the cows come on. All right, so the Kamenawa Horser situation is an interesting one again this year. It looked like the master might not take place in 2026, but I think some last minute wrangling has actually led to it being a thing. We've got Kelly Wilson with us, and she's going to be talking us through all of this and how we've got to the situation we've got to. Nice to be back on the show, Kelly, how are you? Good, thank you so much for having me. No worries, it's an absolute pleasure. So, yeah, it was looking pretty dodgy there for a bit the master for this year. Yeah, two weeks ago we were approached and said the master could absolutely happen in late April, but there was zero funding for it, and if we wanted it to go ahead, the charities would have to pay for it, which is something that obviously we hadn't budgeted for, and logistically we're concerned about it's said in a president for the government to abandon the horse management long term.

1:02So, it was a little dire there for a while. Yeah, but you've got it back on track with Doc, so how did you manage to do that? So, we have been in discussions, both Kamanoa Heritage Horses and Kamano Legacy Foundation for all of last week going through mediation on the three days of meetings back to back, and then another one yesterday. And as part of that, we got an audience with the Director General, and we're able to kind of brainstorm and show the long-term side effects of not managing the herd and what the statistics would look like three years from now, and also how it could look like if they were managed to act in the optimum level. And so, the doc saw the benefit of fully coming on board, and they're actually investing financially more than they've ever committed before to be able to set the management on track

2:05for what they first envisioned back in 2007, when they started kind of dreaming of how this management could look like with less horses having to be mustered and removed each year, and that's largely through a high implementation of immunocontroseption. Yeah, that's an interesting aspect of it, isn't it? But firstly, talk me through the, and just tell people, the situation that could arise if these things aren't in place in terms of the muster and the contraception and the other parts that you're talking about. It could get right out of control, couldn't it? Yeah, so the herd increases by 26% per annum, so currently it's sitting at about 550 horses, if left unmanaged within three years, it would be over of even 100, and the current management plan for the protection of the ecological areas is that the herd needs to sit at three to four hundred horses.

3:07So at that point, we'd be looking at a muster in 2029 of about 800 horses, and New Zealand does not have the capacity to home that many. Trainer spaces this year are looking at a maximum of about 80 spaces, 80 to 100 spaces, and there's no feasible way to increase that. Last year, we extended all our resources, went above and beyond, to get the herd back to a management level, and we were able to remove a 226 horses, and that was a lot of work, so it's something that is unlikely to be repeatable. So waiting and not managing an annually to create a bigger problem later would have resulted in rehoming numbers unable to be met and mass coloring would have had to have taken place. Yeah, exactly. So how many are sort of earmarked for muster this year? So this year, they're going from about 550 horses down to 400,

4:11so the official number two fine homes for is 149, and currently there's applications for eight horses. Oh, wow. So you've got a bit of work to do there? Yeah, there's a little bit of kind of confusion in the media where the muster would be going ahead, and if so, when the muster is definitely going ahead, and not only is it going ahead, but potentially a week earlier than planned, so the horses could be mustered as soon as the 20th of April, and arriving in people's yards on the 21st and 22nd of April with a dependent. There is a bit of a weather window, so obviously it could be pushed out a little bit, but that's definitely the earliest muster they've had in years. Right. Well, it's good that you've come on and actually clarified that you're right, because I did a bit of a Google search before, and it is quite confusing as to what is actually happening this year. So yeah, clarity around that is a good thing. Yeah, so we're also looking at a bit of a double muster,

5:11so as an operation, it's kind of one movement, but mustering in the south and implementing a first dose of immunocontrospection for the southern horses and re-homing from within that pool. So the mature mayors will be immunocontroseptid and released, and their band stallions should be going back with them. So really looking for a high volume of full juvenile homes, and then also that bachelor stallion age group, which are three and four year olds. So the second kind of target point is the animal ethics have approved the second dose of immunocontrospection to be administered to the northern herd. So that's a separate muster operation where horses have mustered into a northern set of yards, and that immunocontrospection dose statistically shows that it can jump the fertility of the horses from about 25% effective on its first dose, up to at least 70% effective on its second dose.

6:13So we're looking at potentially by 2028, 2029, halving the following population in the mountains if the immunocontrospection tracks as it should. Well, okay, so that would be a significant result then, wouldn't it? Yep, so if the herd gets back to 400, which is what our aim is this year, immunocontrospection is done for this winter-like plan. The southern horses get their second dose next to muster season, then we'd potentially be looking at only, you know, possibly 60 horses needed to be home to annually after that, which would be significantly easier taking huge amount of pressure off, owners, trainers, public, because at this stage, I don't think we've had a muster with a target of under 125 horses since the start of the decade. Well, so that's a lot of homes you've got to find, and yeah, as you say, there's a bit of confusion around this year.

7:14Hopefully that's tidied up now, but that would be a much more feasible target for, you know, to be able to re-home, wasn't that much more feasible. Yep, and it's one of the deciding factors for Doctor to come back on board and fully embrace this year with such a big commitment, knowing that in two or three years from now, it's going to be a much smaller operation to manage and maintain, as opposed to escalating and getting out of control and losing all the good ground they've gained. So really awesome to turn about from the government, and we're pretty excited to see what the next five years looks like. Yeah, what was this sort of initial position when they were just like, look, we're not finding it anymore? You know, we're not kind of interested in this anymore. What was the reasoning around that, do you know? You've obviously talked them around, but what was that? So that was a little bit about, you know, budgeting cuts within the government, resources being extended to other areas, and also the management of the herd in discussion about who ongoing would be looking after them,

8:17whether it stays with Department of Conservation or transitions to the New Zealand Defence Force. Oh, okay. Where are we at with that? So that is still under discussion, but regardless of where it lands, the Crown has guaranteed its funding for this period. Okay, well, that's really good. Yeah, the interesting thing is, this is something that you've obviously been passionate about. When did you set up your organisation in terms of this whole thing? It was we while ago now, wasn't a few years ago? Yep, so the Kamanoa Legacy Foundation has been founded since 2023, and it's designed primarily to support owners with sourcing a trainer for the musters. So obviously people with the experience, time and facilities can take a wild horse themselves and train it in their own stockyards, and if they don't have those resources,

9:17then they're able to go through an improved trainer. So Kamanoa Legacy Foundation works with trainers to find out who's available each season, how many spaces they have, and to promote and share their contact details, so people know who to reach out for to help get a wild horse trained, and then the charity also offers a $1,000 subsidy to help with those training costs if needed. Yeah, and I know that you end up with a fair few in your yard, don't you? Yeah, so a lot of the issues in the modern day is that people lack the facilities to be able to train wild horses on a large scale, and so I've created Wild Kamanoa Sanctuary, which is a bit of a base for multiple trainers to work out of. So statistically, every one trainer can only work with about six horses comfortably, and so at my property, I've got the facilities for four trainers to be on site. So this year I've got Morgan Chandler-Bruce here

10:18who won the Stellion Challenge last year, and she's been on and off with me using my base since 2021, and so she's going to be one of my head trainers this year, and we also have two South Island trainers coming up, and obviously horses can't cross the ferry until they're handled, so those South Island trainers wouldn't be able to be involved in this ham and process unless they had an off island base. Yeah, right, so that's yeah, critically important. Yeah, the cool thing is as well, people that aren't quite aware of the history and heritage and also from a horse training point of view, they are quite magnificent, aren't they? Yes, they are. There are bloodlines go back to the original horses that were imported as settler horses in New Zealand, so coming across from Australia and Britain, and then in the early 1900s, a lot of the Calvary horses were released into the mountains during a strangle epidemic, and most survived and became the foundation stock

11:20of the New Zealand herd. So that, combined with a grey Arabian stallion that was released in the 1960s, became the foundation stock of the New Zealand herd. So we've done genetic studies over in Austria. The New Zealand horses are predominantly Clydesdale, British riding pony, Arabian descent, and quite a lot of thoroughbred blood as well. So some really beautiful horses, I've got seven of them myself, they do bridalist competitions right through to show jump, henna, ventine, pretty much anything that you enjoy doing with the horse. Come on, I can do. That's awesome. And what paid your interest in all of this, to start going down this road and setting up the foundation and doing all the work that you do? Because it sounds like it's pretty full-on. Yes, so my passion comes from early in 2012. We got to see the commoners for the first time

12:21and prior to that, we had a little bit of a stereotype as did most of the public that they were small ground honies and didn't really think much more beyond that. But it wasn't until we were in the mountains and we saw them for ourselves that we saw their quality, their height, their colour, and confirmation, and realised they were no different to the ponies that we had got as kids and then produced in champions. So in the mountains, we didn't see wild, rugged horses but future champions and then started the taming of them. So we've probably worked with almost 200 wild commoners since then and they still astound me with their beauty and quality every single season when we're working with them. That's awesome. Have you written any more books? I know you're quite the author on this stuff, aren't you? Thank you. You've got about 21 books published and at the moment I'm working on a comprehensive book on the history of the Commonwealth of Horses and we delayed that a little bit

13:21because so much critical things in the management has been happening in the last year or two and so once the herd gets to a stable situation that book will be coming out and so it's going to be a couple of years in the making as we go through some of these hides and lows with the management of the horses but New Zealand is definitely a world leader in how wild horses are managed. We are doing it better than anyone I've seen internationally and I think that's something to be really proud of both at a government level right through to the charities as well. Yes, because you've had first-hand experience of looking at, as you say, the international examples of how it's done and what to do and what not to do. You've been around the traps in that regard. Yes, so I've spent time in Australia and America observing the horses and the natural habitats living out with them in the mountains and deserts and then also tame in Australian rumbies and American mustangs both for the experience

14:22and then also to compete in the Australian rumbia challenge and extreme musting makeover. So I'm the only current, the only trainer in the world to have finished in a top 10 situation on three continents for wild horse competitions. That's bloody awesome, Kelly. So you sound like, though, that, yeah, you've got a lot of other things on the go, but just primarily what's taking up most of your time at the moment, the co-owner were heard? Yeah, this is going to be pretty full-on for the next couple of months and obviously lots of other things happening behind the things as well. So I do Liberty and horse training workshops and I've been back at that the last eight weeks following a spinal surgery in September. So just making a return to work and a spinal surgery. Yeah, I had a honey added disc. So back on track, rehabbed really well and ready for the muster.

15:22Good stuff. Well, all the best with the muster for this year, it is good to know that it is back on. You've obviously done a lot of work here and others behind the scenes to get this up and running, watch this space. I suppose for years ahead, but for 2026, it's all good. So thank you for joining us. Actually, just before you go, where can people find out more if they're interested in the horses? Cool. So if you're interested in re-homing horse, come out and I'll hear it here at Horses.org. Has all the information about applying for a horse or come out and I'll legacyfoundation.org has the information about subsidies and also trainings that are available. And if you're looking to donate then they give a little page, 149 horses, 149 lives saved is where we'd love to be able to donate and help save those extra horses. Fantastic. Nice to talk with you again. Thank you all the best. Thank you so much for having me. Roon Relics Change with Net Spees,

16:23keeping the country connected.