Rewatch: Bengals free agent fits

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All right. Everybody welcome into the latest edition of ReWatch Reaction. Pulled in your junior here

with Charlie Goldsmith. That's right. I said ReWatch Reaction. We are back digging into the tape

and taking you the next level. Peeling back the layers behind the surface conversation because

it's like we're in mid-season form here, Charlie, because this is mid-season. And maybe the most

important season, as we might have learned last year, for the Cincinnati Bengals free agency is

but a week away, the draft is coming up in a couple of months and we're digging into the tape.

We are not messing around. ReWatch is back. I know you missed it. Do you hear the Bengals have to

add to their defense and they could do that for agency? Is that new? All right. Yeah. I heard that.

Part 2, right? Maybe this will be the one where the sequel is better than the first. There's a few

of those out there. People have their favorites. I'm sure there's a, is there any like sweet life

of Josh and Cody? Did they have their second season better? I'm sure. All right. I respect

high school musical. I wouldn't say I'm a high school musical guy, but it is a fact that high school

musical too is better than high school musical. Not that I'm a huge high school musical guy,

but that's in the zeitgeist of the world pop culturally that I live in.

Yeah. I am from my era. I make karate kid too was actually better than the original karate kid,

which is a, I think mildly hot take because karate kid one is pretty, pretty fun, but I love

when they go to Okinawa man and throw down for life or death and like the moves that he was trying

and the tournament didn't work and I just, I was all about it. There were some, there were some

loopholes in the plot, but I didn't care. I was all in. I don't know if that's a hot take or not,

but people who are karate kid experts or fishy nautos can hit me up on that. I do we,

so what we're going to do is we've got a couple of things that we want to get to. We each have just

picked our favorite free agent fits. We have three of them, a piece one from each level and we're

going to kind of just explain why they are some of our favorites at this point and drop in a few

plays and stats and things here and there. You know how this works, but our new addition to

rewatch for this time of year that I am super excited about is you may have remembered the coaches

office presented by our good friends at RNA marketing where we would take you inside the coaches

office and go through plays. James Casey would talk for eight minutes about the one step that

drew sample made to pin off a block like it was the, it was the deep cut stuff that I know Charlie

and I love so much when we get into it. I loved it. Well, we said why don't we keep it rolling?

Let's go next level again. RNA was all about it. So RNA is presenting the analytics department

and we have brought in gridiron grading, which I don't know if you guys are familiar with gridiron

grading. I have been a huge fan of them from afar. They are, they're analytics based. They're not

trying to dive into the tape with their own subjective. It is, it is a numbers game about production

and about the, you know, testing and all of that thing and how that correlates over. They have

11 years of data that they go back from so you can prove which parts of it you lean on, which

ones you don't, the history with all of these profiles. I'm pumped. We're going to talk draft

with them leading up to the draft throughout and in the follow up every single week on this show

about different topics individually. Super pumped for that. The analytics department presented by RNA

marketing is here for the duration. You'll hear from them in a little bit and today they're going to

kind of explain their process, how they do it and why it's turned out with such a successful result.

We'll have all that for you in a little bit. But when we start off and turn it over to you, Charlie,

let's just start generally talking about free agency and fits. Where do you, where do you start?

I like to take people at their word and don't, I like to listen to what they say. So when the

Bengals said the word force multipliers about 15 times at the combine, I said, you know what,

before we turn this into a slogan or something, I actually want to look for some players who are

what they are saying are force multipliers. So originally for this exercise, when I picked three

players, I was going to aim a bit lower, aim for maybe more of the like the Von Bell types,

the 2020 Von Bell types, who is a two and a half third wave of forage and kind of guy.

The guys I'm going to name are more one and a half, maybe even first wave for agent types in

that Alex Kappa should be a WGA range tier world. But looking for impact guys on defense,

I like tried to take that force multiplier line to heart and said which players represent this idea

the best. Yeah, looking for players that not only that complement multiple people. And there's

I think it was easiest to find in the linebacker range because I think we know what they're looking

for there. Like I feel like we can pin down a couple of players that make absolute sense.

And I believe that we'll probably talk about both of them here. But there's a couple different

ways. I think I have a good. So I'm not going to call it a surprise one because I've talked about

it before. And I think it's notable. The one that maybe would be when we get to August,

the one that we're all waiting to talk to on the first day of camp, like to see what it looks like.

I've got an idea. I'll save that for the end because it's going to be one of the one of the ones

for the back end of this conversation. But we'll get to that. Let's start closest to the ball,

which is where it needs to start. It's where the attention is going to be. Who is your defensive line

best free agent fit? Boy, Mafe, Seattle, Seahawks. Now let me accept the pitch forks already.

Does this sound familiar in a lead athlete who had two sacks last season? That's going to not

going to be the easiest cell that I'm making here. But frankly, when you use an argument I've heard

before, which is that the lack of true production makes him available in the tier you're working at.

Last year or smart, it was the draft this year with boy Mafe, it would be free agency. Here's a quote

from Duke Tobin at the combine talking about maybe a chance to find some diamonds in the rough

in theory and free agency. Duke said other aspects are guys who have been covered up with better

players. Maybe that's a strength of the team they're on, but it doesn't make them less of a player.

It just gives them less of an opportunity to show who they are as a player. Another bucket he

talked about was scheme change. Of course, the Mike McDonald scheme change was the best in the league,

but Mafe is a guy because it feels like a Seahawks scheme is more of an outside linebackery world.

Boy Mafe actually was really, really strong with the iteration and was kind of an ascending star

in the old scheme and he didn't fall off at all in the McDonald's. It's just his role kind of change.

But he's a guy who very clearly fits the Bengals' archetype at defensive end.

And even some of the measurables, like, you know, we know they like young ascending players,

we know they like guys over 260 pounds, we know they like guys who get pressure in a variety of ways.

Boy is one of like the three people in this class who checks those boxes up there with like

Jaylen Phillips who's probably going to be out of the price range and the Odefei, oh,

who I love, but I think he's going to get it done. To wrap it up here like with Mafe,

elite inside move that shows a tight window phone booth gear that's important combined with

a rugged edge shedding ability. And then you can also see some plays where he's just like a maniac

screaming around a tackle or something. And the Bengals could really use a guy like that.

I love this for the fact that this is the Bengals like recipe to a tee. This is how they have

approached free agency. And what their biggest wins have looked like. He's coming off his rookie

contract. He was, you know, a guy they liked in the draft, second round pick. He had all there's

he was there for a reason. And he's been solid every year. You know, he has not had really a bad

year. The last three years, he's over at least 44 pressures every single season in solid

past rush stats and he's solid against the run. He's not some, he's a guy who's giving you both.

I mean, last year he had 20 stops and only two missed tackles. He had 44 pressures. Sure,

he didn't have two sacks. He was getting beat to those sacks by a lot of really good past rush.

A lot of Shamar Stewart cups. Yes. And and I I'm with you like this. This is absolutely the type

of player they've had success with before. You could 100% see being a eight to 10 sack guy here

who is just solid in every way. Exactly the type of player they need who you could play off of

Shamar as well. I I'm with you. I like this. Let's get us bring in a let's bring in some tape.

Charlie, I know you did this on purpose. And I'm just going to say I know what you're doing.

You're going to see him at the bottom of your screen. He's going to come in here.

You may recognize it when we go to the back angle of this sack who he's going up against on the

Arizona Cardinals at right tackle. That's right. It's our old friend, Jonah Williams.

Jonah Williams, the perfect barometer. Like he's like, you know, like a number four starter who,

you know, but when you make nice contact, you square it up. And this is a perfect example of

when I say just the way he overwhelms Jonah. And we saw that happen to Jonah in Cincinnati.

But by dudes who could rush the passive like there's a bar. Jonah's I think Jonah is a successful

tackle for four years in Cincinnati. Not a great one. But if you can overwhelm him like that,

to me, it means you clear the bar of being a guy with the athletic twitching upside to,

you know, what you're looking for in the defensive line. And if you can overwhelm Jonah, well then

you're probably not the kind of guy that that you're looking for. And you know, we saw it here.

I thought the best example is this play, but some consistent examples in different ways,

chasing down play action, chasing down jet sweeps. A good amount of quick pressures,

just the sum and a limited role. Like there were examples of like him doing stuff like this,

a hyper player. And one more box to check. Good, good, battered passer, which is something

I wouldn't say he was looking for. Got a bat more passes. Have to bat more passes. All right.

You made a case and a great case for Boya Moffe. I think he is. And especially when you consider

what the price range will probably be, I mean, I bet you he'll be the fifth or sixth highest paid

edge, you know, I've been when you consider who's out there with Tre and Jalen Phillips and the

Daffa away. And I think what he pays going to get paid. And now you're in the boy at Boya Moffe.

And I think you're I think right next to him in that range is going to be the guy that I'm going

to talk about that I've talked about a lot. And that is Dremont Jones, who has been around. He

had he was in Baltimore last year. He started last year in Tennessee. He has had levels of success

about everywhere that he's been. He has played inside and out. You can use them both ways. He will

stand up and give you spin moves off the edge. He will serve almost as a blitzer at times.

He's played a bunch of his career lining up and over in the B gap, even and been able to get

pressure. He's kind of done it from everywhere. What I'm going to do is I'm just going to run a loop

of his six sacks from last year for Tennessee and Baltimore combined. You'll see him largely standing

up coming off of the the edge at the top of your screen there. You see the spin move right off

the top on this first one of all in zone angles here for you. And I'll just let you just watch the

spin right around Stone Forsyth, I believe. I'm not sure if he's the Jonah Williams barometer,

but you see it happening. It has the guy trained Hendrix and just pushed over that one time.

Yeah, that's that's right. And and Dremont Jones didn't have problems with them as well.

Here's Will Campbell in front of him on the outside, but he goes on the inside of the blitz and

just wrecks it quickly right up the middle of the explosion. You know, this is the type of stuff

where Al Golden says I want to have more action in the line stunts in the movement. He wants to be

versatile and do different things in terms of drop go from five down four down whatever.

Dremont Jones is a great piece to be able to do that and be consistent. You see him winning in

different ways here. Whether it's spin, whether it's a blitz watch this one. Same thing you saw

earlier. Basically, he's on this left side edge. He's going to come right up the middle as he

whips around on this one against Justin Herbert here and the chargers whoop and just blows it up.

Right. He just gets in there, causes the disruption and all of the action and kind of he just kind

of does a little bit of it all. And when you hear so much of what Al Golden and the bangles have been

talking about, that's what they're looking for. They want guys that are kind of come in and be able

to do things in different ways, give them that versatility without substitution that they've

been talking a lot about. That's no two sacks where he just grabbed the dude's leg. Great job.

He's the kind of guy that it is just so easy to get on the field. There's always going to be a

place somewhere for a guy like this. That's three times when you grab some of them by the leg.

Yep. Great, great, great shoe string sacker. There's always going to be a place like him for

somewhere on the field. Combine with the fact that he's not going to block.

He's not going to block Miles Murphy. He's obviously much more advanced in terms of his stature

and the league than BJ Hill was when the bangles traded for him in 2021. But there's some like

defensive end version of 2021 BJ Hill here in terms of being a guy who you can find a place for

with the expectation that the past restuse in a role playing fashion will show up and help you.

Well, not lead that unit move that unit move the ball forward. So a very nice player.

I don't yeah, I mean, he's not going to give you as much or be as solid against the run like

that's not as much as anybody's he's salty and he's and he's tough in there. He's not going to be

some push around. He plays hard like you see the chase down sacks. He's got a bunch of those.

I mean, the dudes had at least 40 pressures. Okay, for five straight seasons. I mean, this is

that's what they need. They need somebody who when they're in there, they're going to come from

different places. Do it in different ways. But the end result you've got 40 plus pressures and

probably five to 10 sacks like that's the type of player that can be useful. I don't think he's

going again, he's not going to be at the top of this market. But he's he's 29. He's got years in

him. I feel like you could get him for two years 20 and drop him right in and say, oh, that was a

nice free agent pickup. Great way to think of it would dream on Jones get a press conference.

Yes, absolutely. You would get a press. So he's above that tier. Even though he might not be a

starter, you know, if they draft Ruben Bay in or of Schemar Stewart pops. But obviously he'd be a

prominent piece of the defense. Yeah, oddly, he's he's kind of he sizes out a little bit like

Ruben Bay. I don't know his arm length, but he's 63 280. And so it's like he's got a little bit

of everything. All right, we've done the line. And now I want to switch this over and bring in

Gridiron grading and introduce them to you guys. And when we come back, we'll drop in a couple of

our free agent linebacker and safety fits. All right. As I mentioned, it's time for the debut

of the analytics department, which is presented by RNA marketing RNA fueled coaches office

during the season. That's when we took you inside the offices of Bengals assistant coaches.

For the draft process, we're dipping into the analytics department and welcoming Andrew

Winter and Ryan Alwam from Gridiron grading. I will get to them in a second. But first, by now,

I hope you've made it over to our website, the growlerpodcast.com. And so if you have, you know,

about RNA marketing, that's the group that's been the architect helping us grow in the digital space.

I trust them with building our brand. I can't recommend them enough to do the same for you. So

if you're considering a new prospect to be a force multiplier for your marketing needs, that's right.

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have introduced the advertising suite, which is intended for an on demand and low risk entry point

into all things advertising and marketing. RNA has it all go to R.A. Marketing.com. You can contact

them. Now let's get to Andrew and Ryan. All right. Welcome into the growler debut of the analytics

department. Now this is a step forward from in season. We had the coaches office. We would go in

there and talk to Bengals coaches, and they would give us insight the next level into what's

happening with the Bengals. Well, it's draft season, and we need the analytics experts. And that's

why what we're going to do this draft season is every week bringing who I consider to be some of

the best in the game at doing this. I have been addicted to their content for years, and it keeps

playing itself out to have hit after hit and prove itself over and over again. I have the guys

from gridiron grading here, Ryan Albaum, Andrew Winter. How are we doing guys? Well, great to have

you in here. Doing well, Paul. Really excited to be here excited for this draft season. I think

a long time coming, but super excited to chat draft and analytics. It's going to be it's going to

be a fun time. Yeah, great to have you. Here's what I want to do. I want to I want to use today.

We've got how many we've got eight weeks. We have a lot of time. We're going to we're going to

dive in position by position, athlete by athlete round. We're going to do all of it. We're going to

look into what the past says about the future and what you can learn from combining production and

athleticism and all that stuff that you guys have in my opinion mastered really. We have a lot of

time to do that. I want you guys to tell us who you are. Ryan, start with you. Who are you? What's

your background? How did this happen? How did you guys end up creating this thing? Yeah, so we

can spare you a lot of the details of our early lives, but Andrew and I met back in 2015 at

Washington University in St. Louis. We were both undergrads there playing on the division three

football team. Andrew definitely had a lot more playing time than myself, but that's sort of where

our friendship kicked off and early on, we both realized that we're pretty strong Bengals fans,

but throughout our whole entire lives, it hadn't really come with much success either in the regular

season or the playoffs. So that sort of drew our attention to the draft very, very early on.

I myself studied English and you has more of a business background. So the number has really

came from him and his inspiration, but as our football playing careers came to an end, we wanted to

really stay involved with the sport, help increase our own knowledge. And so we figured that being

Bengals fans with an interest in the draft, it would be a great opportunity to tackle it from a

more numbers forward and analytical perspective, just to see if we can really reduce football,

not to X's and O's, but to specific data points and identify what testings and measurables really

matter, what kind of performance on the field really matters at the end of the day and help create

these individual profiles for each and as many prospects as we can to hopefully one day help

teams like the Cincinnati Bengals figure out how exactly to not only build the best roster through

free agency, but complement and supplement that through the draft, where players are available

and their cost controlled for at least four or five years. What's your background, Andrew?

I think Ryan tackled some of it from me. I think I won't go into the early details. I know Ryan's

Canadian, Canadian. I'm from St. Louis. So that's a big piece of it, but yeah, more of the business

background. And I think the analytics piece as also a lifelong Bengals fans started with the

stripes back when I was a kid in the Chad Ojo Cinco days. I think that was a big part of it,

but I think that you need perspective that has developed from our side over the last. What is it?

We started this process in 2020, I think with just a blank little excel sheet, taking very high

level information. And just with the amount of data that has come out the last every year,

it feels like it's changing, it's changing again this year. We started initially just wanting to

take a look at the draft or the players available, where they ranked, where are they being picked,

and now it's more diving into, we create a 700 person border. And then taking that refresh look

every year. Okay, where does we go wrong here? Where can we go back and look? How can we use

form the future? And so that's a big piece of what we do. And I think, Ryan and I,

great, we love to debate each other all the time. I think that's a big piece of it. But again,

certainly more, the analytical focus for me, Paul. Yeah, I love that. What I have enjoyed,

and I have been a consumer for a while, which is why I reached out to you guys about doing this,

because I've always found it to be the best mix of sort of, let's understand understanding

what works here. Let's understand who these prospects are on and off the field,

and use what you guys, I mean, you guys have been doing this now. You guys have what,

how many years of data that you guys are tapping back into? 2020 was our very first

board, but we, yeah, because PFF, and that's a big, and everybody can debate the value of PFF,

I think it's an awesome tool. But they have college data going back to 2015, a little bit in 2014.

So we've retroactively created profiles for those guys. So we use, it's what now it's 11 years

of college data to inform the process. And it leaves you in a place of understanding a few

basic principles. I want to ask you this though, like, how is this process of understanding evolved,

and what has been the number one sort of takeaway that's kind of your guys, I don't know,

motto or slogan about what, you know, the analytics say about the draft is specifically through

the bangles lens that you guys look. Yeah, I guess starting with that key takeaway, for me,

it's really been college on field production matters, and I think it seems to come out in our data,

and Andrew can correct me if I'm wrong, but that really seems to be the one piece in each of

our prospect profiles that holds the most weight when we come up with our final score,

and when we put some type of evaluation in our board on a podcast like this,

there are great players all throughout the country that are freakish athletes who might pop off

on film, and there's nothing against those two aspects. There's still things that we factor into

our board at the end of the day, but one of the mantras that Andrew and I live by is we want to see

a college player have done it on the field beforehand, because that not only gives us comfort to

project that forward, but it shows that they've done it before. So if someone's been a high level

producer in the NCAA, odds are they're likely going to be a high level producer in the NFL,

or at least some of that talent on the field will translate. So the production's been the biggest

thing at least in my mind, and as Andrew has said, we sort of each and every single season look

back at all the production profiles and try and build off of them for each iteration of the board

with each upcoming season. So if there's something that was maybe too heavily weighted for one

year, we can go back and adjust that moving forward. So for me, it's really that production piece

that I think reign supreme for us. Is there an algorithm? Is this just plugging numbers in or how much

of this is you're grinding the tape, right? There's always both sides of this. How does your

guys system operate? No, I think that's a really important distinction. Paul, I think something when

we have these back and forth throughout draft season, we do not watch film. That is not something we

do. We have a board of 700 people. It's not something we do full time, right? So watching film

is not something we lean on. Nor do we feel like we have the expertise to do so. But there are

experts in the field, whether it's a Dane Brogler, the Lancer liner, just the value of consensus.

So we can pull up a chart later. Paul, I know we've talked about it, but film is a big piece of

our evaluation, but it's not coming from our personal opinions on that player. Our personal opinions

are developed through the production and the athleticism models that we've put together.

And so I think as we think about my one biggest takeaway, it's that you can't take a one-size-fits-all

approach for every position where athleticism might really matter as an edge-rusher. We found

it doesn't matter as much for a safety. Maybe you only want to focus on the shuttle time.

So as we watch the combine now, and of course, you're going to have the best freakish athletes

out there, I think it's just important what we've seen to take a position-specific approach for

each player. So that's where our personal opinions develop is through the athleticism,

through the production metrics. And then we use the film, we use the consensus, because obviously

one big piece we don't have is what are the interviews going like? What are the medical

leave-als going like? We don't have that, and we believe that's something that comes out

in consensus, something that comes out through the experts. And so that does play a big piece,

it's just not coming from our sitting down for multiple hours, trying to figure out where the

player should be, where they... What their assignment is on that specific play, I think that's

something that would be a challenge from the outside looking in for us. So let's take a look at,

you know, this is a good example, I think, of some of the position-specific stuff and how

the analytics and the algorithms that you guys use play out. Talk me through something like this

that shows a lot of some of the position-specific analysis that you guys come up with.

Yeah, sure, I'm happy to take this one, Paul. So this is showing the four pieces of what we use

in our grading system. So one is the on-field production that comes primarily from just

PFF and production metrics through a career profile is what we use. The second is our own athleticism

score. And again, that's kind of what I talked about where we're waiting individual tests

differently based on how much they matter, 10FL success. The third is obviously,

everybody knows math bomb can plot and we use his RIS scores as well, but we've developed our own

to kind of match with that, and then lastly, the film and consensus part of the profile. So it's

really a four pieces feeding into that final score. One that we think, or the two that we think

are really unique to us are the college production. Again, you've referenced it, Paul, the database,

we have going back 11 years, and then the athleticism model, which is something we actually pulled

together last year, because we wanted to see do specific tests matter more. And we found that they

did. So that is something that now informs our scores, but I think lime men are one areas that we

we feel pretty strongly about. And so as we get into the defensive tackle conversation this year,

you'll see looking at this production, we found that there is an incredible correlation to how good

a prospect looked in college to that NFL success. And so that's kind of the overall approach

to talk through a position by position, but that's what feeds into our final scores and our final

evaluations. Well, those position by position conversations need some space, and that's why we're

going to give it some. Oh, you know, over the next couple of months leading up to April, we're going

to do the only question I have is how many defensive tackle episodes weren't going to do, not

when we do them, like because that's going to be so much a part of the conversation. I just think

there's a lot of dissection you can do into individual player profiles as they all start to come

together positions in general, you know, whether you're looking at edges versus nose tackles versus

three techniques versus what you're trying all of that stuff, the way you guys can compile it and

we can tap into some of the stuff in recent history. We may talk about Shamar Stewart. I don't know.

It feels like a possibility, right? When we talk about really, I felt like you guys kind of ended

up at the center of that debate last year, but there's a lot of that for us to get into. We have all

the whole run up to the draft to do that, and I'm looking forward to it. I cannot wait to dive

further into the draft with you guys. Ryan and Andrew, this has been a ton of fun. We're just

getting started. I am so stoked that you guys have the time to do this and sit down with me and talk

through that. Please make sure everybody that you guys are following these guys, following grid

iron grading on X to take in all their socials because they're putting stuff out all the time,

especially right now as the conbine is firing away like it's all kind of coming together and

we will be back through through free agency through the draft and everything taking a deep look

every single week here on rewatch show, hopping into the analytics department presented by R&A

Marketing. You guys appreciate your time and looking forward to next week.

Yeah, thank you so much Paul. We'll see you soon. Yeah, thanks Paul. Thanks again to Andrew and

Ryan and whether you're in professional services, tech consumer goods, you're building a personal

brand. The R&A playbook is designed to make you the premier choice in your market. I can't

give any bigger endorsement than to say we trust them with our business. You should trust them

with yours. All right, really, really excited about having grid iron grading along with us

for the draft journey. They're going to be a huge addition to the program. I love the stuff that

they do. Let's get back to our free agent fits though here right now. Charlie and I will turn it

back over to you in the linebacker mode. We talked about this on the walk out last week after we

talked to Duke and the Zach that I think we got some clarity in terms of what they are looking

for at linebacker and that would be they're looking for that combo guy who can drop down,

play on the line, blitz, hit the edge up and do a little bit more of that and less of just

playing as the middle linebacker Mike who's is back there in direct and traffic.

They sound a little more open to going into a higher age range than in the past potentially.

They may not need to but they seem to be open to it and looking for leadership and all of those

things but I think mostly they're looking for Demetrius Knight to not have to play on the line

of scrimmage anymore and who could blame them after watching a year of that film. So that said

where did you go with this? I thought this was the most obvious answer in the entire exercise.

Yeah I think I think Leo Shenall wins the Jotuni award which I think a couple of years was

but the year where we all just spent four weeks talking about how the bangles need to sign

Jotuni. I mean they did they work for us they so specifically talked about that combination of

edge snaps of blitzing and so you can just sort and see who's done that and the difference

between defensive end and linebackers there are like seven guys who can do this. So we

well one now there's not going to be a bidding war in two even if you don't get your top choice

you'll find someone who you don't just like and fits but also has like a connection to Mike Hodges

because they're like seven of those guys not really get their connections across the defense.

Leo Shenall Kansas City. They're not gone him and he's never been a full-time player. He's always

been a role player. He's not a true third down cover downfield linebacker but this guy is

going to punch you in the face just as a as a violent tone setter right in the middle of your

defense or right on the edge of your defense or like watching this film he's like the best

linebacker spy I've ever seen like that that I've studied that but like I've never noticed

someone's spying ability that much. Heck in 2024 there was a player he lined up on the edge and

just destroyed Drew Sample on a run block and I mean that's above the Joan Williams line if

you're destroying Drew Sample you got my attention and plus just some athleticism to make an impact

in man coverage against tight ends if you need him I think Leo Shenall wins your Joe Tune award.

You mentioned he will punch you in the face I will pull up the first play it is third and goal

from the one for the Bengals in Kansas City and Leo Shenall did just that to Joe Burrow the end

zone angle shows this better as does Burrow's helmet rolling out watch 54 he's kind of up in your

top left a little bit wham who on the Bengals has been able to do that for the last 10 years I

I think Vaughan Bell different because he was a safety and and was he necessarily getting that

head esteem but of course like he could meet you down the field he wasn't necessarily doing that

as much at the line of scrimmage love Vaughan shout out Vaughan one of my favorite Bengals of

coverage is in terms of watching the play Colorado Safety's coach Vaughan Bell

but like that wasn't Logan Wilson like Jermaine Pratt got his production in the back field in a

different way with anticipation with timing and his ability to slice through blocks my killed him

big hits but again kind of just because he didn't see him coming Leo Shenall you know he's coming he's

going with I'm not fighter you just do your jab right you've got one jab he doesn't even need the

cross because he's just going to jab and knock you out and I would like to add that to the Bengals

defense yeah they could use some guys that can do that and I think it's made him a bit of a fan

favorite in the role that he's played in Kansas City if you sort of read the clippings coming

out of there and for that regard I mean I just feel like he does he he looks like he brings something

that the Bengals just don't have any and he plays everywhere again versatility without

substitution what they kept saying over and over again and particularly his ability to be playing

on the line a ton he does that he does that regularly he also plays in the box and back as a true

off-ball blitzes drops and sometimes when you need him to make a big play in the passing game he

absolutely can do that as well and I'll bring in his interception and you can watch him Lamar

Jackson throws it out here down the right and tracks the ball brings it in a great play the

end zone angle also better probably on this one when you see it it's just more that he can do I believe

he had a 9.99 relative athletic score and he can just see him one you know sticking with Andrew's

fighting the ball good hands I'd like to now bring up one of the maybe one of my favorite quotes

that I never had a way to use just because why would I use this but in 2024 before the

week two game against the chiefs I was doing a story on just how the chiefs rebuilt their defense

after losing to the Bengals in 2021 and I had a long conversation with Orlando Brown that day about

the chiefs defense and I just didn't use this park as I wasn't going to feature Leo Chanel but it's

a quote you save for three years when Chanel hits for agency here's Orlando Brown Jr. on Leo

Chanel Orlando Brown Jr. said I've seen him do some crazy stuff I've seen him scale a trolley

at the Super Bowl parade but then here's the money part he's a freak athlete who really plays

his part he's their jack of all trades yeah there you go that's it there you go looking for a jack

of all trades and he you know he does seem to have leadership qualities in the way that he plays to

have that versatility you've got to kind of have that a little bit as well and if if you're talking

about Bengals and what they are looking for 25 years old in free agency and a winner and a winner

who understands these games and understands that what the Bengals can be and has played really

well in a smaller role block you could say for four years coming off that rookie contract again this

is the prototypical type of player that the Bengals target in free agency who does the prototype

typical type of thing that they're looking for you know what else I'll give you

mistackle rate at 8.2% or less for three straight years that is going to be absolutely beautiful

for Bengals fans to hear for mistackles this past year for the year before that

six the year before that so he's a guy that makes the tackles does a little bit of everything

I think he's going to get paid now there's a bunch like you said there's a bunch of these guys so

it's the the saturation that does exist in this market maybe helps a little bit but I just think

when you look at his profile and if teams are looking for this I they're not going to be the Bengals

are not going to be alone in trying to chase down the ocean of us for sure but that's where you

know let's get to who you're guys because he's the other guy yeah he's the other guy I think you

can go back and forth with this I think you can go back and forth with this I think Chanel's more

of the profile that they're probably looking for because he's younger but when we talked about

the leadership access aspect you end up with Kaden Ellis Kaden Ellis who played in Atlanta

wore a sea on his chest last year he's 30 he'll be 31 this season he has played consistently and

can bring the pressure so if you're looking for guys who are able to bring that blitz off the

edge some of that pass rush juice last year he had 30 pressures four sacks the year before he

had 43 pressures and five sacks the year before that he had 26 pressures and four sacks all while

playing up and down you know playing plenty in the box also you know you had last year you're

talking about on the line he had 280 snaps on the defensive line 751 in the box you know pops out

in the slot so I'm not afraid to do that pass rush grade over 80 each of the last two years as

pressure rate is high like if you're looking for pass rush juice and trying to do it in creative

we creative ways and have shall I say it again versatility without substitution Kaden Ellis is your

guy he also as older brings more of the the leadership aspect a former seventh round pick who earned

it every step of the way availability played over a thousand snaps each of the last three seasons for

Atlanta the bangles will not be alone in trying to get after him either but he also is certainly

in the profile of guys that you'd be talking for for what they are looking for I really enjoyed my

comp here you know my comp is for Kaden Ellis who's my my kilton my kilton yeah yeah seven

seven-throw pick earned it well just like look at the blitz stuff like what I wrote my notes here is

he's great at being free like a free rusher and that's an underrated thing like no fence I like

Cedric Johnson look at Cedric Johnson against Josh Allen on that huge stern whenever run you're free

but there also is a way to with your timing and just your speed and your finish

Mike's one of the goats at that my kilton yeah Kaden Ellis is a linebacker who does that

there were exactly like really neat player I wasn't as familiar with him um like just the speed

to beat tackles around the edge on five men fronts like he can dip and go he's obviously not

going to beat you by by rushing in like an offensive end but on the edge he can win with that speed

with that twitch um I wrote my notes he's nightmare for running backs and past protection like

some poor souls died trying to to to beat Kaden Ellis so blitzing is what you're leaning into

there he's undersized but what I saw was still a violent downhill inner who would complement

in four in a three line backer fronts and then as a blitzer gives you some fun

fun creativity yeah I I think there's a lot to like about that he'll miss a few more tackles

then Chanel's what you're talking about there but I also think he brings you he brings you

more as a as a pure blitzer coming off the edge then what you what you get and so I but both

of these guys that we're talking about I think art would be big successful check marks of the box

that they're looking to check and you feel a lot better and no longer have to watch to meet

your just night try to do this stuff on the edge anymore so for the fact yeah worst case he

ended up with Devon Bush Alex and Zaloni Eric Wilson Leo Chanel Christian Rose Boomer

Demario Davis so yeah good good year to need a linebacker good year to need a linebacker it's sort

of a yeah a moral of the story here and there's plenty of other pros you can go into with those

guys we won't because we're going to move it to safety now where did you see on the safety route

I watched the Bears play the Rams and did a rare example from my couch scouting give me that

but it was a perfect example because what I when I value so much its safety just is that

for lack of a term playmaking ability that we haven't seen in three years um what what happened

then who was that guy just wait until the show we do next year when it's just Jesse mates bring him

home bring him home for for months um brisker sorry so first of all the versatility the first

multiplier all that stuff I sorted through again a very deep safety group but I was looking

alright who lines up in a slot who lines up at free safety and something Zach always says he

likes about Kyle Hamilton is the linebacker stuff the linebacker ability that he brings to the

table juquam brisker hundred steps in the slot 500 free safety 200 snaps at linebacker 93 tackles

as well and obviously I'm not going off those just baseline stats but you see real examples of

him doing stuff at all of those spots whether or not that's shooting out of a cannon as a slap

litter whether or not that's following a tight end in past coverage whether or not that's breaking

up a pass down the field just as a true center fielder uh he posted an elite ballhawk rate

or create some pressure like he can do all of that and be your your your toy how gold would say

in the middle of that defense and all you need to do to see that is turn on the tape uh

juquam showed against the uh the bears when he made more plays than no offense gino stone made

in 34 games how with the Bengals uh on that note speak new making plays this play in that game

that you were couch scouting um was probably the one of the more impressive and one that you would

notice uh bottom of your screen you're going to watch the safety have to hang with pukinakua run

deep and he's just physical and steady like it's funny like i'm in good year like they talk a lot

with the wealthy marty about the routes going back in the ball and floating versus reading and

attacking the ball and like that's what he's doing he's playing i guess left field in this case

because he's on the left side of the screen and he's just the whole time watching him feels like

the guy who knows he's going to get that ball i'm glad we saw this play also want to shout out a

different play in this game just breaks up kind of that that stop and go or sluggo i think you'd

call it uh round to parkinson that they ran all postseason like riskor just made that play as well

like he's doing stuff like this down the field while also showing an aggressive dynamic element

in the middle of the field gino stones biggest weakness was that he was a bad athlete and septor

he just couldn't do stuff and jacquon all you need to see is the athleticism he can do stuff

there's no doubt uh speaking of guys that can do stuff and have done stuff and theoretically we'll

continue to do stuff it's just a matter of for how long i just want make a Fitzpatrick to be this

team splash i just i mean it is just it makes too much sense he is his change his name to force

multiplier like he is they need leadership they need intelligence they need instincts they need

ball hawks they need versatility he plays absolutely everywhere uh you can say does he he

complements everybody that you put next to him doesn't matter because he does a little bit of

everything we know the respect exists in the building because bangles coaches and joe burrow

hated nothing more than having to plan for mink of Fitzpatrick when he was in Pittsburgh

so we know they know what he can be he's 29 he's played a lot and so maybe he comes across

as older uh but he's still playing great man and they he has been used in every way imaginable

a safety can be used in this league um and to a high highly successful rate you know a couple of

years ago he had a bunch of picks people probably remember him picking up joe burrow on the first

play of the season um you know six interceptions back in 2022 he hasn't had as many of those

lately buddy still around the ball he's still a dude and he just brings when you talk about leadership

that on the back end and having playmaking back there those instincts are just off the charts

in terms of what you can add to maybe change the entire dynamic of the way this team feels uh

with raising the floor and having stability now i'm here for jimmar chase and mink of Fitzpatrick

all training camp i'd be enjoying that i think when we know the history there between the two

but it maybe it was just because he was wearing stealers gear at the time uh but i don't i don't know

jimmar will pretty much fight with anybody in training camp it doesn't really matter jimmar

well that's a good defense jimmar well jimmar once a good defense and i'm pretty sure he'd be pretty

thrilled with mink so you're you're on board with me on this one

the bangles defense we're seeing signs of what it wants to be but there still aren't things you

feel them specifically in the middle of the field building around so this brings me to mink

is Pittsburgh career and i just refreshed myself googling it a second ago and this is how i

remembered it he did all this stuff in the slot in the middle of the field playmaker he played his

own game they called it minkable in 2020 i want to say four whatever his last year in Pittsburgh was

basically a 24 they said you know what we're just making you a free safety now we need to defend the

deep ball have fun how good year and he hated it and they traded and then i mean he got to do the

stuff again there is such a void of i'll call it play design in the middle of the defense not in

terms of what else cooked up but like what do you there's no freelancing that demetrious nights

giving you in the middle of your defense there's i like jaylin davis there's no freelancing

the jaylin davis is giving you in the middle of the defense you get one wild card on your defense

that's what the best defense is nearly do and have you get minka and you say do whatever the heck you

want will build this around you and your preferences and your strengths because you're that good

and because we don't have anyone competing for that type of freelance wild card role and you build

everything you do around that son i think it's your only chance to get a son in free agency or

i mean he's more advanced than Caleb downs he's got to be so better than what you get in draft like

nothing could change the defense more semi colon i would pay more for minka than i would pay

for any other free agent not in terms of some guys will get more but some guys will get too much

like minka's the most expensive free agent i would side if i was back

yeah and i don't know what his number will be like i don't know how how many team because of

how deep safety is how unwilling teams tend to be to pay safety even though minka got a big contract

that he's cut still well he's technically still undermined he has not let him go yet this is

under the assumption that's where this lands you know they're they're currently doing the we're

trying to trade him with the everyone acknowledging that he's probably going to get just released

so for that fact i'm curious what his number would be but it would be worth a splash and one that

the bangles have the money to make if they wanted to especially if they're not going to go to the top

of the market for say an edge like if you go a boy mafe or a dream on jones at edge and even sign

cadenelas or or whatever or or Chanel you're not signing anybody that's over 15 million per year

when you're doing that and so it allows you to maybe stretch a little further than you would at

the safety position because you didn't stretch anywhere else so i'm with you like it makes sense

he he brings so much stability he can cut down their explosive plays he can he can add to their

playmaking and just bring that type of leadership and confidence that you need to have that they've

just sorely lacked in the back half here for a while and you know so much love for what DJ

Turner did last year and and what they believe Dax is now and even the what they're saying about

Jordan battle these are these are guys that could use the confidence of having somebody like that

playing around them and i i think it's something that they should be very very interested in going

after one of the assumption that mica ends up out there i will say just something to keep in mind as

well as similar to linebacker if it ends up being like marco wilson Tuesday there are seven or

eight of these guys not make it make it's the best by far but like safety is a super deep crop

in a super deep core infer agency this year specifically not just safeties the guys who do all this

the guys who move around my favorite my sleepers jalen Thompson who was a good player on a back

cardinals team and did all this stuff and has some oomph out of the slot really can play man coverage

for a safety like i like jalen um he would be my pick out of the rest of the bunch but there is a

there is a bunch um and that again could stop a bidding war or give you a security if you don't

win a bidding war and so you have that at linebacker and safety you don't at defensive end

there are 10 safeties in Daniel poppers top 100 free agents that does not include mica fits

Patrick so again that market is going to be saturated there are plenty of different directions

you can go a couple of former UC bearcats are there that you could look into and Brian cook and

Kobe Bryant and cam curl and Kevin Byard who's an all pro last year playing for the bears right

alongside of brisker Nick crosses a super solid dude who would fit profiles that they've looked for

when he was in the Indianapolis last year like there's just no shortage uh read blanking ship is kind

of an interesting guy as well that you would even as you go further down who's played really well

before he had to play next to a rookie last year um there's just a lot of different directions

that you could see them going and I think that there's always a a possibility uh that

they could just pick what they want to do because I think there's so many options

and the beauty is too if you if you sign mica fits Patrick you can still drop Caleb down

no reason you can't have both no reason you can't have both and try to have the most instinctual

secondary in the NFL at that point why not why not go do it uh you know we shall see how it all

goes I'm excited about this though so we've we've we've kind of got our fits out there make sure

everybody is reading the chalkboard for more and all of this as we run up to free agency and make

sure you've got your athletic subscription as well you're in any that uh for all of everything

was running the next week free agency week is upon us you know what that means it is the walkout

hoodie nights are here every night Monday night Marco Wilson Tuesday Wednesday Thursday

we will be here live going to you every single evening talking through what happened this day

reacting maybe bringing in some tape I think gridiron grading guys are going to pop in with some fall

out what it means for the draft later in the week I'm excited about that but it is a special week

we love free agency week here we will be going live every night uh so make sure you got that YouTube

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subscription to the YouTube channel like subscribe leave ratings come in the comments ask questions

I mean last year we had time to take almost every question in the comments because we really

didn't have anything else to do I do believe Charlie I'm going to go out on the land and say we will

have a lot to talk about this year this year maybe they'll pay more money for a better team

let's hope so I don't know that I can handle another Marco Wilson Tuesday but on that note let's

get out of here Charlie back to the backfields for you from Arizona thank you for popping back in

reminder to everybody new episode of power stacks is out live from Arizona you and Brian

wearing sunglasses of which you hate and we got to learn other things that you hate uh in that

episode which I was very appreciative of getting the rundown I might need the full list uh maybe

bring that to the live shows next week we'll need the full list of top 10 things Charlie hates so

looking forward to that all right thanks everybody for watching for listening we'll talk to you next time

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