REPLAY: Parental Alienation - March 7, 2026

Here you go. There you go. Third time lucky. Yes. It's a hype. So my name is Charlie McCruley.

I'm a I'm a frontal alienation coach and I've been through alienation personally and what

that meant for me is a period of something I call pre-adionation. So this was the point in time

that my ex was beginning to subtly but effectively undermine the relationship with between me and my

two kids. I then went through five years of severe alienation with with my kids including two

years of no contact with one of them and that was I bizarrely went voluntarily in no contact

with the kid because I thought it was the only way of preserving the relationship until I later

point in time but I'm delighted to say that I've rebuilt both relationships with both of the children

and we now I see it as having lost battles but then won the war so ultimately I've won the war

and I now get to have you know decades with my kids with a normal relationship again which is

which is really fantastic but to your question Jude so I touched very briefly upon that word

pre-adionation because when I start hearing of children saying I don't really want to come and see

my mom I don't want to come see my dad and that to me smacks of of alienation it's sometimes I

mean the audience that we have here today it's more likely to be alienation it can also be

a strangement now there is a difference between the two so a strangement is stuff you do that

damages the relationship with your child you know so if you're an insensitive parent if you're

an aloof parent if you have not you know invests enough time in the relationship given enough

encouragement and love to your kid then you're on the risk of restranging them and I'll come on

to other ways you can strengthen in a second but a lot of the time what's happening is if you're

in a high-conflict divorce or high-conflict separation at that point in time and your kids

start saying to you know they start acting differently so they stop wanting to spend time with you

they might start being a little bit rude with you that those are the sorts of things to me that

point towards alienation and when that starts it doesn't normally begin like overnight or instantly

it's normally as a result of foundations having been laid down for a period of time and this is

something that parents find quite difficult to get their heads around because most of us who are

married to alienators who by the way you're right are mentally clinically ill people you know if

they're narcissistic that is a diagnosable mental illness so a certain amount of what they do is

it's not so it's beyond their control but it's a consistent set of behaviors

and but they lack emotion and they're just trying to hurt us by stopping us from seeing our kids

and what happens is when they think that the relationship is coming to an end and sometimes even

well before they think the relationship's coming to an end they start subtly undermining us

as as parents so they might say we're mean or we don't care or we're only thinking about ourselves

but it'll be you know our role as a parent might be undermined they'll be encouraged not to stick

by our rules and it can be very very subtle but what happens is that they're creating this loyalty

conflict within the child you know make mum first make dad second and it builds very subtly

over a period of time and then when you get to separation that's often the catalyst at which

point in time or slightly before sometimes or slightly afterwards but that kind of period

and that's very often the time that that the alienators then increase the pressure on the kids

because they want the kids to really align with them and to cut us out and that's often when

you see there's these behaviors of you know I don't want to go and see I don't want to go and see

dad and it's also a very dangerous time for us because when when their teens there is this

thing the voice of the child which the courts will listen to when you're going to go off and trying

to get court orders about custody and unfortunately the legal system is really poor at understanding

alienation so and the people who support the legal system are really poor at understanding alienation

so it doesn't get picked up as alienation instead it gets picked up as this is a genuine request

from a kid who's expressing a wish and the old enough to have an opinion about where they're going

to spend their time so the whole system is kind of frigged against us and it can be very difficult

to kind of win to get custody of those children often we're very very reliant

upon the the child wanting to come and see us but of course they're under all this pressure

by the alienating parent not to come and see us so that that can be a really tough time for for

parents but I'm sure you guys have got lots of questions about that which I can then go into more

detail on yeah if you guys have questions just put your put your hand up or just unmute yourself

but that's a good point and while guys are thinking about that child I'll say that's a

that's a good point that that guy should be aware of you've got to be you've got to be paying

attention to what's going on and if you've missed the the the pre alienation signs

um that can that just makes it maybe a little bit a little bit more challenging but there are

things that that you can and do and and maybe if there's no questions Charlie you can you can talk

to us about what to do maybe first talk about those pre alienation signs uh I think you have like

like five triggers that uh that that make the your your acts are soon to be act

it's kind of uh uh start acting acting out maybe you can talk about those some of those

pre alienation signs but also if you could share it like what can we do because like you said the

the the courts are just not designed to to deal with this and any any any of the

ancillary people that work in this cottage industry really aren't interested in getting to really

the the source of what why a kid might say I want to spend one time with another one parent

of them the other and then if you as a dad are assertive you get labeled as a authoritarian

or difficult or something else because that case worker wants to just not deal with you

and and then the court is going to use what they say against you so it can be a vicious cycle is

what i'm getting uh uh and it makes it very difficult so how do we mitigate some of that

yeah well just just one's the the first thing you were talking about the pre alienation again

it's not for for most of us we're not even even really aware that it's been going on

and I think it's really helpful to to look back because many of us there's this kind of

classical thing that happens that that the alienators tend to be narcissists or some sort of

class to be personality type lacking emotion we tend to be empaths and so our our nature is that

we're kind of optimistic we're we're kind of hopeful people we see the best we give people

benefit of the doubt so we're not looking out for these sorts of behaviors and so I would encourage

each of you to kind of put a different lens on and go and kind of re re tread through or restep

through your history and say okay if I was looking for those sorts of behaviors where this person

is undermining me what would I find and very often when you start looking back at through with

that lens on you start seeing what's been going on for a long period of time and it helps you to

understand kind of what's been said to your kids what's what's the mindset that the kids are now

in you know why what are they believing about you as a person which I think is is kind of important

to to to understand in terms of how do you stop this from happening that's much harder

because the the alienators basically will do anything to undermine your relationship with the kid

and you can't play the same game as them so you you can't try to turn on the alienation as well

because then it's just a race to the bottom and you're seriously going to screw your kid up

psychologically so so it's a bit like being in a a kind of a boxing match with both arms tied behind

your back but the the thing that there are a few things that you can do first of all go learn

about alienation that's really really critical alienation the way it affects a kid is it's quite

kind of structured and there's normally like 12 15 things that kids experience you know like

being put in the loyalty conflict being given false choice being a parent of I'd

once you understand what the kid is likely to be going through and you have to use a degree

of imagination you can then start getting into the mindset of the child so you can start appreciating

why are they behaving in the way that they are because these these are coping mechanisms it's not

because the child doesn't love you and it's not because the child wants to reject you it's simply

because the child is protecting themselves but of course we take it personally so what we have

to learn to see what the child is doing why they're doing it so we can look beyond those behaviors

and then secondly we need to look at ourselves and say well who is the person I'm bringing into this

relationship because most of us have got issues you know deep wounds within ourselves

that make us feel very vulnerable particularly when we're being what seems like rejection by our

children and I talk about this kind of two universe model of your child and yourself and what

a lot of us are doing is is we're looking at what our child is doing and it feels like they're

rejecting us and then we're taking our universe which is us with our insecurities our vulnerabilities

so you know we're empaths because we didn't get enough love and support when we were growing up

so we're sensitive to this stuff and what we're doing is we're taking our old wounds and we're

linking them with what's going on of our kids today and and you have to learn to

de-link those things because what your kid needs most from you is is love and support and encouragement

regardless of what they're doing and that can be a really tough gig for anybody because

you know when when you feel under attack continuing to be what is like a super parent can be really

hard you can do it you can all everybody can do it but you have to address your own insecurities

and vulnerabilities first because they're they're triggers and I treat triggers as teachers

because they're everything that triggers you is telling you that there's something that there's

an old wound that you haven't got around to healing yet and it's not it's not just triggers from

your kids it's triggers from anything in your life so I always encourage parents to start really

paying attention what is the stuff that's making me feel uncomfortable and then start working on

why is that making me feel uncomfortable what's what's the root cause that sits beneath this

and when I'm doing coaching with parents I spend a lot of time on triggers I encourage people to

kind of really think about it so I look at there are different lenses I encourage them to look

at triggers through so one one of them is blockers so what is it that's blocking me from moving

forwards in my kind of emotional resilience journey and that's that's typically around things

you don't want to accept because it's too painful so your kid going through alienation is really

hard to accept as yeah I'm just going to accept that as a reality that that feels like we're giving

up but actually what we're doing is is we're just emotionally rebuilding our resilience and to

me acceptance it's not about giving up it's it's accepting the reality as a transitory period

but with hope at the end of it so that's one one type of trigger the next one is just plain old

triggers anything that triggers you and people kind of don't think enough about how frequently

we are being triggered are realizing it so somebody asking you how your kids are will trigger you

not being able to go to a kid's event at school will trigger you watching somebody going down

the street with their own son or daughter will trigger you you know when you really start opening

up water what is the every single thing that makes me feel upset you quickly start creating a

list of 50 to 100 things there's also expectation gaps so all of us have this natural propensity when

I and even before our kids are born we start creating in our heads ideas about what what our kids

lives are going to be like and our role within those lives and the sort of environment we want to

bring the kids up in now let's face it we just invented this stuff and we did it typically based

on our own childhood and our own experiences of stuff that went well and stuff that we want to change

so stuff that didn't go so well and we were growing up we want to do it differently for our kids

but but we're creating this like subconscious blueprint of expectations and what happens is that

we then find ourselves in an environment where the reality is it's panning out is not the same as

the expectations that we had and their pain points and then the other one is judgments and these

are the subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways that we have been criticised or influenced

particularly during our own formative years when we were younger you know and it's really interesting

some people for instance can't sit that they can't allow themselves to relax because when

there were kids they were never allowed to do that they always had to be doing jobs they always had

to be kept busy you know or a parent was like that and then the kids became it and it's like

people people often don't stop to think what's what again what is this blueprint of ideas of

limiting beliefs that I've brought with me into my adult life so when you're thinking about your

universe you have to start being a lot more aware who is the version of me I'm bringing into this

relationship with my kid what are my sensitivities what are my insecurities because whenever I get

triggered I'm basically I'm making it difficult for my kid to be with me and this is where I talked

about us estranging again this is where we can estrange our kids unwittingly so if a child in their

universe is being rude to you or they're there it feels like they're rejecting you or they won't

stick to your boundaries that sort of stuff that's them protecting themselves but we take it personally

and what the child really wants from us above everything else is to be a stable parent

and they want to know two things one is are you angry with me because if you're angry with me

that that's a barrier to to rebuilding relationship with you and the second one is are you safe

and safe means you're not going to get triggered and you're not going to put me in the loyalty

conflict and and the loyalty conflict is the one place the kid absolutely does not want to be so

so we all know that by criticizing the other parents that is holding the kid in the loyalty conflict

but it's more subtle than that if you defend yourself that's kind of the same as criticizing

the other parent because it's not accepting the version or the story that the kid has has been

taught to believe it gets more subtle than that if you change your body language if you change

your facial expression if you change your tone of voice those are all signals to the kid that

you're not feeling comfortable and that means you're not feeling safe and if you're not feeling safe

they can't feel safe for what you're doing is unwittingly exchanging your kid from you

because of the way in which you're behaving and it's and this stuff it's not really that complicated

you know as I hopefully as I explain it it's all quite simple but that's not how we typically

kind of understand alienation that's not typically how we see the problem and that's not

typically how we behave so understanding alienation and understanding who you're bringing

it is a really important part of mitigating some of the damage that's been done by the alienator

because they want you to get upset they want you to react to react rather than respond

and they want you to be angry with the kids so you end up estranging them and contribute to the

overall challenge of alienating them so a very long answer hopefully that was great answer

hey guys what what triggers are you finding that that come up for for you

anger frustration

thoughts of past rejection from other people parents like my dad took off I was probably

well I was like 18 or 19 but he just disappeared and he pretty much when my dad divorced my mom

he pretty much divorced all the kids too is the rest of my my siblings said the same thing so

those things did that give you a sense of abandonment somewhat more of my little sister all

of us kids were older so it wasn't as hard as with my sister being 14 but there were issues there

because there was one time I ended up not having a place to live my dad I moved in my dad was gone

at the time and I picked him up the airport in LAX and then I told him in the car that I'm staying

at the place he was staying at which he didn't own it was this other woman this older lady that

said yeah you can stay here temporarily and he got very very upset so basically he would rather

be homeless than stay in the same house wow I mean that was hard that was that was that that that

those those sorts of things could be really hard and and where I would speculate there might be a

link is now that's why I was asking about the abandonment because quite often if if there is

something of that nature we then have a sensitivity that that rejection or abandonment now becomes wound

and it's one of these things and when we're with our kids we attach the old wound with the dad

onto the kid oh here's somebody else that's rejecting me here's somebody else that's abandoning me

oh I've been through all this before and your subconscious kind of gets into the driving seat

and controls the way you feel and controls the way you act and this is where we have to be really

conscious to go no that's that's old stuff that's the past I need to let that stuff go I need to

address it and let it go so that I can just focus on on what my kid is doing today but I mean I'm

very interested to hear what what kind of other trigger points you know any of you have because it's

that there's always linkages back to to some event some somewhere in the past no Charlie I'll

also let you mention um I think part of the is our society or culture I mean when I grew up my dad

told me in 1965 right around there the divorce rate was 6% 6% now it's 50 more and so it began in

America where we had food containers you could throw away and then it was appliances were more

expensive to fix than get a new one so you threw it away and then you just switch cars and then you

switch houses well now it's switching spouses and switching families and it's like we have a throw

away attitude which is really sad because you know the relationships are vastly more important than

material things and I can attest to this I have a friend of mine she's from she grew up in Vietnam

she lives here in Denver and she's got she's married with a couple kids and I told her about

the kids she goes what did you do did you molestin did you beat them did you go to prison for murder

I'm like no she said I've never seen kids dishonor their parents in Vietnam ever zero they're talking

a non-Christian culture but it's a culture that honors their parents and respects their parents

and our culture is completely unwound from that yeah yeah I mean it's I think one of the things

that that changed in the western side was longevity I studied some of this stuff and it completely

unrelated matter and it used to be so I know I can I can talk about the UK but the US will be

very similar as well it used to be after kind of after the second world war so the 1950s so slightly

full the time period you're talking about the average man would kind of get to 65 and retire

and then often got something from the state and would live to 68 and begun so so the woman who

got used to you know because it was normally man goes out to work woman stays at home looks off the

house and that's not being sexist that's just that's the way it was and so the woman only had to

put up with this guy being around the house for three years and because you know a lot of the time

they they got quite used to not having this this person bumbling around the house and you know

relationships change and relationships went towards so good but you know the women lived longer

the men lived less but they only had to tolerate three years together and with longevity that

extended out and it was really interesting because women started women in their you know in their

age 50s started divorcing men the head of that retirement period

and so they didn't have to live with the guy I mean it's really it's really fascinating I'm sure

there are other drivers as well but I think that was one of the things and it it kind of broke the

family cell because when we used to look after our own parents as well but but we did it because

you know there was this disagreement almost that we all look after each other within a family

but then these families were splintering and suddenly people weren't prepared to take on the

responsibilities of some of their older folks as well and so it's kind of it's really interesting the

whole thing just kind of fell apart and the stigma of marriage that all changed so you know there

was a great stigma of being divorced and I guess in the the 60s and the 70s particularly that

went away you know by the time the 80s came along everybody was divorcing like nobody's business

as you say it's like one and one and two people now get divorced yeah yeah there was a woman

posted online she had an iPhone in this restaurant and she forgot she put on accidentally put

on record and there's these young girls next to the table next to them like girls in their 20s

and one of them was very pretty and they said oh you're so lucky and look at my big ring and you

got you know engaged to this handsome wealthy guy and they're all joking around they said what

happens that the marriage doesn't work just oh I'll just be married for 10 years this was in

California too I'll be married for 10 years then I'll just divorce him and soak everything for

what he's got and they all laughed and that's the culture of these young women they'll just like

strip the man of everything he's got and steal everything from him if it doesn't work out or they

think it doesn't work out so that's our culture can we make a distinction though Charlie because what

the conversation that we're trying to have here is what can you do about the alienation and what's

happening I don't disagree with anything that you're saying Jay and there's a myriad of societal

things that are going on the therapeutic world is partially responsible the court system our western

society et cetera there's lots of that but I want us to try to get that back and focus on what

Charlie was talking about which is how do you show up and how do you mitigate that

that stuff and those triggers the only thing it can control is yourself right so when those

triggers come up what do you do and how do you handle them and that's you know that's what we're

really trying to get to because you can't control we can't control all that other stuff we want to

see change with that other stuff hopefully we're all doing stuff in our lives but the best thing

we can do in our life is work on our relationship with ourselves in order to have a better relationship

with our kiddos so that we can turn this tide so that they can have healthy relationships and hopefully

we get back to a place where there are better relationships so let's let's keep it focused on

those those triggers and what we can and can't do well I don't think I did my my situation I can't

do anything my kids won't communicate with me at all there's no communication at all I've just

given up I mean I'm moving to Florida in three weeks and I'm just out of here I'm not going to

wait nine I waited nine years I'm not going to wait another nine years and if they won't text me

back they won't call me back they won't immediately back you know it's just over that's my that's

my experience yeah I mean it's I would I would say it's healthy for you to to risk you know get

on with your life and I would say that to our parent parent in fact you know if if you're in a

situation of severe alienation it might be that you have limited contact with your kids it might

be you have no contact with your kids in both those scenarios I I would work on yourself healing

because you're not you're not going to be able to get on with your life if you're not in a good

space and also you're not in this position to kind of help your kids if you're not in a good space

but also you don't know when your kids are going to reach out and try and have contact with

you again and in the period just before Christmas and kind of up to the end of January five different

parents reached out to me over a seven-week period and and just people I've done coaching with

and because I wanted to share the fact that they had been no contact with their kids and the kids

were now back in their lives and and this this is a range of ages so so some of the kids were like

14 up to 22 but but in that sort of age range but you just don't know when they're going to reach out

even if they are no contact so you have to be ready so all this stuff I say about

understanding alienation understand who you are coming you know who you'll bring into the

relationship the other the other part is adapt your parenting style because your your kids are

not looking it depends on your unique situation but generally speaking if the kids are getting

older and they've been severely alienated probably preentified you know if that if they're in

their teens they're kind of not looking for you to be their their dad in the way that you would

guide and advise them on their life and of course we sit there on the other side of the fence

thinking I've been missing out I'm not seeing my kid for a few years I've not been able to share

my wisdom I've not been able to share my experience I've not been able to guide them to to

you know help them in their lives and we we're desperate to give that to them and when they

they kind of rekindle the relationship with us they don't want that and we have to recognize

that they don't want that so so I call it being the role model we we have to adapt our parenting

style to to align with where the kid is at at any given point in time and though some of those

things which is one of the big emotions we have which is injustice it's not just the injustice

of the systems you know the courts and the social service systems you know CPS DCF it's the

injustice of my kid doesn't know who I am it's the injustice of having lost that parenting time

and and we kind of have to deal with that injustice rather than then when the kid tries to to

reach out to us we strange them because we have our own wants they're not even needs they just

wants we want to be the parent with that kid again and we have to learn to act differently

but also that that role model is it does address some of the injustice because when your kids

start rebuilding a relationship with you they will pay attention to how you act what you say how

you treat people what you do you know how you conduct yourself and it's like a process of osmosis

so you still get to influence your kids but you don't do it by sitting them down and telling them

what your kind of experience in your morals and your integrity are you do it through your actions

and you will find that your kids start mirroring you and they start repeating some of the language

you use and that that kind of shows that you're having an impact on them but it's kind of it's

very very subtle it's a really subtle every you had your hand up

yeah do you hear me I mean all this is really great and I know um you know it is

hard to read just like by 16-year-old daughter she's pretty much MIA doesn't talk

doesn't turn messages never even like it's so bad where she doesn't even let me know when events

are at school she's become um it's almost like she's hiding like something with like my

being is she does what I'm talking because something that her mom has said makes her not want to be

a part of my life and instead of going down that road I just you know I'll just keep on sending

a text like once now I'm like once every two weeks I used to do it every week say hey I love

you just thinking about you I'm kind of like every two weeks so like I guess you hate be careful

driving you know black eyes be careful if you need me let me know and on your own time give me

call like you know I didn't feel like that but it's kind of like you know but this is the hardest

part is I have realized that it doesn't want my guidance I don't know what she wants all I'm

trying to do is be the safe parent the consistent parent the one words I'm not you know I'll

center type so hey I'm not mad at her because when you're when you were feeling comfortable reach

out to me we'll do coffee you know but it's so hard because it's not that you want to parent

them the proof the evil and wrong it's like you just want to be a family the partner who

chose lives like John John I told him get it I've been like so I guess freaking move out of Denver

you know my daughter is in talk to me at all she's you know I found out that she's in Kahoot with

her choir director we're out even knowing they have fire concerts she's had three and I've only

found out through my stuns like the day after I'm like whoa how come you don't let me know and they're

kind of like they both drop their heads I'm like I'm not mad like well pain doesn't want you to

go to the choir concerts my no worries my you guys just let me know and then let me know the day after

you know but it's you're trying to take that seriously is she is she more lady-nated than the boys

and how old how old are the boys my son is uh 17 going on 18 year like next month that's scary

so he'll he used to come over because I bought him the car that he wants and I want him drive

to the garage or it's college um but now he'll he'll come over like with his brother and they'll

I'll send like hey are you home and I'll send him like no I'm out like oh we're at the apartment

we're playing cards at lunch hour and I'm like oh okay just locked the door in the way out so they're

my my all the sudden he's coming over um if you want to stay at mom's more

when he comes over when he needs help with the cars like that it sounds like the excuse to come

over which is fine you know and we communicate you'll let me know when it gets home from work at night

like two one in the morning last night like hey I'm home I'm like I'm like cool me to love you

and my youngest he's 14 oh go ahead no no no carry on carry on my son is 14 he still comes over

after another week good to you good but I do not talk to him like what's going on pain

why don't you talk me I don't do that we just go out and just do stuff together like yeah you know

and it's just so hard because it's not that I want to defend myself with my ex-wife because she's

nuts um but you know then a current event happened and it's just like wow seriously like there's

a money thing in the courts and this whatever my ex-wife kind of messed something up so now the

courts are telling me that in the next five days I'm gonna be getting a notice that my ex-wife

has no access to this money that the courts are controlled for my daughter we're sure have to

directly contact me to go to the courts to give her money and I'm like I want nothing to do with

this by my ex-wife is my ex-wife she's done she's done so I'm not even addressing this with my

daughter it's like when she reaches out to me then I'll handle it but just so hard because you just

want to you want to be present or so hard to be present when there's no communication like how do

you reconnect so you have to you're basically relying upon them at that point in time when

they're effectively no contact you're doing the right thing by continuing to send her messages

every two weeks um I would encourage you not to too often say if you need me I'm here or you know

if you want you know when you're ready meet up because that just puts pressure onto the kids

and that kind of holds them in the loyalty conflict just try to keep it really really light and

trials who not to say I miss you because that guilt just talk about it just keep it really really

light and what's most important is that you've sent a message and they often don't respond to

us or they typically don't respond to us because it's it's like they can't stop us from texting us

without blocking us but she she's not blocked you so she's leaving that communications channel open

so that's positive but it's like the kids see this as it's a step too far for them to actually

respond because her mum's persuaded her to effectively cut you out of their life so this is why

your daughter doesn't tell you anything about her life and this this is very very common the kids

kind of start going quiet and it's it's kind of their mother or the alienator is just trying to hurt

you by by excluding you from everything and so she won't want you to know about concerts she

won't want you to attend the concerts and the worst case scenario for her is if you attend the

concert and her mum is also there because now she's got she's really in that loyalty conflict

where she has to be totally aligned with her mum and we get very upset if we don't understand

the dynamic because we want well why isn't the kid having eye contact with me why don't they

make some effort to speak to me you know why they're showing away and often the alienators form

a physical block you know they'll stand in front of the kid and like shield them from us so that

we don't have an opportunity to speak to them but I would say I mean it's it's good that your

your younger son is still coming across and seeing you regularly it's also really good that

your older son although he's not seeing you regularly he's opened that relationship because

for for the older boy he'll find it much easier when he's got a little bit when he's a little bit

more confident within himself a little bit more comfortable about standing up to his mum if he goes

to college or university often we see big shifts at that point in time because he he's out of that

environment and the same thing could happen to pain you know we see there's a lot that that and

this this worked for me as well when my oldest daughter went to uni that was that presented an

opportunity you know this happens a lot with with with parents it presents an opportunity where

the kid now is not so monitored and so so they feel that they can start responding or they feel

that they can start having a conversation but what also happens is when they go back to the the

parent the alienators parents home for the holidays they go no contact again and so we again if

we understand nature of alienation we expect it we anticipate it we're okay with it it's when

it's when we don't understand it we feel on this roller coaster and then our emotions are going

up and down all over the place and then we end up estranging the kids because we're being too too

demanding on them. Hey Charlie is it common for an alienator to choose a kid or and if they do is

it a youngest the middle you know an oldest and it is there a is there a jet is there usually a

is there a pattern with gender is it usually the girls or the boys any insight into that or

that they just blanket choose all of them and try to see which one which one it happens with.

I mean that there there are there are patterns but there are so many patterns as to their

not being a pattern if that makes sense so so very often women will choose daughters to alienate

we we regularly see the oldest child being the one that's that's focused on primarily

but often it can also be the child who's most malleable so this is why I say that there are patterns

but there are so many patterns that you can almost say there isn't one but there are there are

definitely these common themes so often the older child is deemed as being you know the person

that is easier for the the alienating parent to get on with because they're more mature than the

others and they they often become very perentified because they get shared information about you know

courts and finances and stuff like that they become like a peer or a consort to to the alienating

parent they basically replace us and and it changes it changes that kid in in some fundamental

ways because that that child starts you know they might only be 10 they could be 14 they could be

16 but they now start seeing themselves and identifying as an adult because they've been treated

as an adult and it's it's really something schools pick up on this stuff they'll say to you

are your kids really mature and what they're really saying is that your kid is speaking to me like

they're an adult and they're they're treating me like like a like a peer and it has an impact on

us with our parenting style that that's why I was saying before you have to change your parenting

style because we we have we don't always recognize that that their perspective of us has

fundamentally shifted because their perspective of adults has shifted and often we are what I

call the regulators in the the families before they broke up so we're the people who kind of try to

keep the alienator on an even keel we we try to keep calm in the house we provide a buffer

to the children to protect the children from them and when when the marriage breaks up or the

the when we separate we exit and then somebody has to step into that role and it's not it's not

necessarily the alienated kid or the most alienated kid who steps into that role sometimes it's

one of the other kids but it's it's normally one of the kids who steps steps into that generally the

oldest and so they start becoming you know that this person responsible for the emotional needs and

keeping the alienated parent on an even keel and basically start parenting that person

and then what happens is they tar us with the same brush so because they've had to do it with

their mom or with their dad they then assume that the other parent is is going to be the same

and it's kind of weird when you suddenly notice that your kid is trying to parent you

you know and give you advice and it's so scary that it's so scary just said that oh yeah

yeah yeah because my my son's like he's opened up a lot like he's like yeah you know a mom

mom took some money in mind and this at whatever blah blah blah so then we were out and like

something was wrong with this car we went to get the part and I just went and I paid for it he's

like no no it's okay I got it I'm like it's fine it's like no I'll take care of myself and I'm like

it's 15 dollars buddy don't worry about it and he's like well I have a job and I'm like

that's great I'm like I have a son it's so funny how he like he'll talk to me about the youngest

son he's like oh yeah you know yeah I got and take him out for lunch like twice a week now just

over him and I can reconnect and all that stuff and I'm like okay but you guys live with each other

and go to school together well we just want to have our time together to dad and I'm going like

what was up it's funny how he has taken out like the role of my youngest son like he's the dad

I literally hear my my youngest son go oh yeah I owe Henry like five bucks because the

fact of I used his his card on this on this video game and I'm like why are you using this card

well he lets me do that I'm like I already is off yeah well one of the things that it's another

common theme is that the alienators of can be very mean with with money and and it's understandable

because we we as empaths we get our security from relationships with other people for us

relationships are important for people who are on that cluster b scale you know it's a

narcissist and even worse when you go into the kind of psychopaths and it doesn't and psychopath

by the way doesn't mean that somebody's going to kill you it just means they're they're really

emotionless but they get their security from material goods they they they get it for money they

get it from their image you know how they look and and so when we're giving alimony or child

maintenance across to to an ex they're holding on to it for themselves that a lot of the time they

not sharing it with the kids but although they will tell us that they have the these massive

expenses related to the kids so I can understand completely you know the dynamic in that in in your

ex's household that that she's holding on to all the money and and it's actually quite good

for your son to become independent because he has to be because he's not getting their financial

support from his mom and and then when you come along and offer it it's like well it's so

ingrained in him at this point in time to be independent that it's it's like no I can do this

I can do this he might he might even feel vulnerable accepting gifts from you because he's got so

used to I mean if you think about empaths as well he might be very empathetic as some we don't like

receiving stuff as empaths somebody gives us a present we feel uncomfortable

it's funny I feel like because of things that have probably been set about me it's like he's

almost in shock that I would just because I know she's told the kids I don't provide it I don't do

this I don't do that that also when I do these kind of like oh okay yep I mean it's Charlie it's

terrible knowing that they do focus on one of the kids does that give us a strategic opportunity

with the other kids to do something to help mitigate the the circumstance or to just keep is

there something that we can we can do or focus that we can keep on them because like Henry said

like that can filter down if it's the oldest kid and then they start trying to influence the younger

kids are there there are any any strategies around that they the key thing you want to be doing with

all the kids all the time is just giving is being the the balanced loving supportive parent when

I say supportive it's like giving the kid the encouragement that they're probably not receiving

from the alienator you know so telling them that they're good at stuff you know telling them that

they're a nice person telling them that they're attractive telling them that they're capable you know

it's it's quite simple but but we have limited there's there's a limited amount of stuff that we

can actually do that can mitigate the the alienation other than making ourselves available and

being supportive because if we don't do that because we're getting angry then we just play into

the alienator's hands and we push the kids towards them but there are there are patterns again so

very very often a kid who is alienated then becomes a co alienator in trying to get the next kid

to kind of convert and and some kids are very some kids are very kind of robust and that they

have high resilience like like Henry's younger son he sounds like he's in good space he's he's at

14 he's probably quite vulnerable to the alienation as in you know you'll actually might well be

thinking about targeting him but you won't know if he is or isn't being targeted because you don't

really want to have those sorts of conversations with him to be honest but you'll tell by his

behaviors if he's been put under stress by by his mum but he's he seems he seems resilient

your older son seems less resilient but he's still keeping his relationship with you so he's

he's kind of appeasing his mum but your daughter I think is is clearly very very scared

of yeah of her mum and and you know we basically the kids have to appease

the alienating parent to take the pressure off themselves

why why I appreciate this conversation for one big reason

the spring breaks and like about a week or so and the kids are going to California

the same at Disneyland and my sister who lives in California is like hey why don't you come out

they'll just go watch them and I was like yeah yeah and about a month ago I'm like no I'm not

gonna do it and she was like well I'm like the last thing I want to do to see them up they're

singing us and you know like yeah I'm just seeing this like freak that look at my daughter

she's gonna like oh my god he found you know so like I canceled the trip and my sister was like

but I still want to go I'm like you know what if you want to go you know that they're gonna be there

and if they you came with you that's great but don't ever let them know that I was going to come

to that's your choice so my because I that I really was gonna do it I mean we had it all

planned out it was gonna fly out just by the week you're gonna you know watch they have like three

performances in choir that they're gonna sing or you're gonna go to them all but also I'm like

you know that would just be a very awkward scenario and that is not what I want to do to them so

I canceled the trip this is it this is really good hard because I want to see it for it

absolutely but this is a really good segue into another area which is a lot of what you a lot

of what we all go through with alienation is mindset it's if we're feeling vulnerable and

insecure and hurt we have one sort of experience if we're feeling resilient and we understand what's

going on of our kids and we understand why we're behaving the way that we are and we're making choices

by the way that we behave we have a literally a transformed experience because we're no longer

that vulnerable person that can be hurt by the ex all the time because we kind of we understand it

we can act differently we can make different choices and one of those choices is exactly what

you're talking about Henry it's that there are situations where going to an event is going to put

pressure on the kit and that will actually estranged them because I'm going to think oh dad's

going to turn up he's going to make life difficult for me it's going to ruin the event for me

you know and basically you're you're pushing the kid away and what and so the reframe is do this

with love and that makes you kind of the super parent so you're consciously saying I am with

an open heart with a loving heart I'm going to give you the gift of me not being there I'm

going to give you the gift of a of it being able to go to that event and not feel pressurized and

you get to enjoy it and okay I'm not going to be there I'm going to miss stuff but see it as

as as something you're doing with love rather than something that you're missing because

that will again transform your experience because sure you'll you'll feel you're missing out a bit

but you'll feel much better about it than if you just think you know oh this is yet another occasion

I don't get to participate yeah it it's hard because like you know it's like trying to be present

I've done realizing that if I did that it could go south so quick man that's elastic you know I've

always told my kids over the years and the beginning of all this like hey you know I'll see

it here Ben I'll wave me guy contact and then I'll leave and they'd be like why Mike I just don't

want to make it awkward for you me mom at the same event and you know my summer's running

you know I'd be on the course not at the finish line so he'd see me when he'd run by a couple

times so he knew that I was there and then he'd reach out to me later but hey Dad I saw

how do you think I did you know and because it just always was awkward in the beginning when

he was at the finish line and we both were there and you're seeing cross the line going like

where the hell do I go now yeah you know like you didn't know do I go say hi to mom first

it goes dad or so he'd normally go get water and I just turn the walk away because just much better

I mean I said in my my intro at the very beginning that I went no contact with my youngest

daughter for two years I mean I didn't know it was going to be two years of the time but I

recognised that the relationship every time she came to meet me and one of the dynamics had changed

when there were two children being alienated that the kind of the toxicity was being spread

between two kids and when one of them went off to university and one was left all of that venom

got poured into just one child so the pressure ramped up enormously on her and I and I could see it

and when I used to go and meet for meals occasionally and I could just see that that it was becoming

too it was coming too too challenging for her to spend any time with me at all and I thought

I'm not being a loving parent here in this moment I'm kind of yes I want to see her and yes I

wanted to know that I love her but I said to her like okay and I described it as a holiday

I said we're going to have a holiday we're going to have a holiday for each other just to let things

you know calm down the settle down again and then we'll start seeing each other again but right now

I don't think it's good for you to to come along and see me because it's causing you lots of stress

and so she agreed to that and neither has had any idea how long that was going to last

and two years was a very long time of being no contact but you know I I made a point of being

absolutely no contact at all for a year and then after that I would I would just send her a text

message you know once a month and didn't expect any response and then after two years she started

responding wow but that was love I did that with love and like I don't think I can do any other way

yeah that's tough Charlie so we're out of time here and you're talking but you're on mute

there Henry did you want to make another comment yeah there's a party that almost wants to

know she's always at school like it 7 a.m I just want to put a little gift card to Ziggy's on

her windshield and leave so she'd be like who did this and never let anyone know that did it

just so I feel like I'm trying yeah like for me not for her yeah yeah absolutely absolutely

another another time Jude remind me to talk about envisioning because that's something really

helpful for the parents okay yeah we can we can start off with that next month so let's let

the guys know how they can connect with you Charlie I highly recommend you Charles got all kinds

of resources at his website and online everywhere yeah so so basically if you go to my website

so that's Charlie McCready.com so exactly as it as it's written here with my kind of zoom name

I'm pointing at it but of course you guys can't see I'm pointing at it yeah if you go to my website

but I'm also on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube and TikTok and X you know pretty much any

social media channel if you put in my name you'll you'll come across and you'll find me

and I do coaching we've got something called the sanctuary as well which is like a subscription

service and it's it's only less than 15 dollars a month and that that provides kind of additional

resources to to what's available elsewhere on social media so there's like e-guides and videos

and live Q&As there as well and I answer stuff in the community every day but yeah otherwise

come you know it looked me up and and book me in for a coaching session.

Awesome thanks Charlie and yeah thank you so much and you guys are awesome I mean I respect and

honor everybody who's going through this because it is a toughy it's a toughy

artist thing is exactly I think that would say for sure but you grow you grow and develop

going through it God has a little plan for us he's he's teaching us stuff that we didn't really want

to learn this way yeah but that's much easier for us to say to Charlie like looking back on it too

and we're in it is so much harder for for dads going through it it's hard wrenching right yeah yeah

it took you yeah sure yeah all right fellas have a great rest of your week and Charlie again thank

you so much so much appreciate you and absolutely pleasure yeah we'll chat again next month

yeah I'm looking forward to it all right great all right thank you guys bye