Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three

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2:22I'm with Rob Draper, and that was Kevin Keegan laying out his philosophy of football, and I guess particularly football management. This is the third part of our three-part series. In the first two parts we dealt with his playing career. We left it, well, didn't we, with Keegan being taken from the James's Park pitch after his testimonial against Liverpool in 1984. He leaves in a helicopter. It's meant to represent the ascension. It feels a bit less helicopter at the side gone. Where does he go? Holy, it's... He goes to Marbella, so that's... That way all the helicopters and side gone went and he goes to play golf. Surely that's the appropriate escape route from Vietnam. Just to say, though, I wanted to highlight that quote. Because it's so Keegan, isn't it? And his management, what he brings to each of these clubs that we're going to talk about in his management career. There's a massive streak of idealism in there

3:22and some might say naivety. But this is the unique character I think of the man and why there's been so much false praise and mourning for his passing. He did really make you believe. We're going to that. But he has this weird kind of... Well, I would say it's a wilderness period. I think, you know, if your wilderness desert period is playing golf, in a lovely golf course, not a player in your lovely Spanish villa with your two young daughters and your wife. I suppose for most people that'd be quite a nice wilderness period. But I think, as we'll see, it really isn't for Keegan. Although he does have... When he's not involved in football, he really is completely detached from football in a way that is unusual for people who are caught up in the industry. He almost goes into a recluse mode and this is one of those recluse modes. It's almost like he's rebooting himself. And I do wonder whether he brings so much energy and passion to his short period with different clubs that maybe you just can't sustain that continually.

4:24And he needs these sort of sabbatical periods. But he goes off to my bay. They have a knife villa there. And he's basically playing golf every day. And he completely... He doesn't watch any football at all. Completely leaves it. And we talked in the first two parts. So for someone who loved the public spot right in some ways, in a he now just completely withdraws, except for here playing pro-seleb golf tournaments. They were a really big thing in the 80s, weren't they? There was one there me. And like you'd stand around the golf course trying to get an autograph of Jimmy Tauber or something. I could say low level of celebrity. It's a bit unfair on Jimmy Tauber. You know, it wasn't Robert De Niro. I put it that way. It's not like playing golf for press conference. I think it makes sense though. There is a sort of an appeal in being closer celebrities in the autograph in those days or these days as a selfie. But the fact they're playing golf, it means that they have a couple minutes chat on the tee. But then they've kind of got to move off. So it keeps everything moving. It's not as intense as an appearance.

5:24And I think an appearance that I don't know, a town hall or something, or a concert venue. It would seem quite cynical. It would be an evening with Kevin Keegan. You'd have to be up there telling jokes and doing anecdotes. Whereas it's much more relaxed to play golf. Thanks to see why the appeal is there. And it's one of the reasons, I mean, we'll, you'll be seeing it over the summer, that former footballers being quizzed on transfers happening or about to happen. They were always on the golf course because it's, yeah, come and meet me on the first tee. Oh, I've got a tee time there. So I'm going to have to go in five minutes. It's an easy way of bringing it to an end. So I think it makes it makes some kind of sense. Whenever that seems to me, whenever they get the terrible call, or they've been dropped from England squad, they're often on the golf course. They all, yeah, I had to, I didn't get the call because my phone was off until, you know, we got to the ninth hole or something. But he does do appear, he's doing sort of various business. But he's basically become a full-time celebrity in terms of doing business appearances.

6:25This is theme of a soccer circus, which he talks about all his life. And eventually, as we'll see, he does finally set up. Sadly, I'm not entirely sure what, what it actually happens at the soccer circus after lots of tricks, I imagine, and sort of keep you up, he's in such a light. But he has this real vision that this would be a great idea. It won't prove to be sadly, but we're going to add a bit later. So he's talking about that. We should deal with this incident that happens in 1991, which is just invoked so much kind of lurid speculation, really, and I think unfairly. And it's a horrific incident. He's basically as drive, he drives back from, I mean, South of Spain, all the way to his Hampshire home and is on the M25, said he felt really sleepy, pulled off at Rige, Junction, and finds a country lane, and has a little sleep, which is kind of the responsible thing to do. I mean, in retrospect, maybe go to the service station, maybe the work, maybe the service station haven't been built. It's quite early days, the M25.

7:27I don't know, but he's in a country lane, and he's basically attacked with baseball bats. He's just lying there as sleep, and suddenly someone's battering overhead with a baseball bat. And this will lead to lots of speculation of what the hell is Kevin Keegan doing, sort of in a country lane, and suggestion that he's cottaging, or he's got some dark sexual past. I mean, this is all completely unfounded, and put to bed by the criminal trial, which basically finds that there's a bunch of kind of real low-life guys who have basically owed a drug deal as a money, and it just happened upon the first car. They came across and decided to rob it, and they literally take his wallet. I mean, it doesn't seem the most well thought out crime in the world, but they're all convicted. But I suppose it adds to Keegan's sense of a, the reason why he's choosing to reclease of lifestyle is perhaps justified Britain seems a dangerous place, and the tabloid newspapers,

8:27you know, a full of sort of low-expectulation. To be fair, I don't know, the newspapers wouldn't have reported that net stuff. It probably would have been more gossip around it. You would have heard that day's room, of course. Of course, of course. Everyone was talking about it, or what was he doing there? It does look odd, but I mean, there is absolutely, you know, the trial makes it all pretty clear that, well, his story is the story that is to be believed. And of course, it's the second time he's been randomly beaten up, because it happened in Belgrade with the immigration officers. What was that? 974? Yes, I think it was 74, the Tourtees in Europe. So, you know, you see what the odd thing about Keegan, but in many ways an incredibly fortunate man, great talent, great charisma, does great things in his play, I'm a G.R. career. And yet, he's also quite profoundly unlucky. I mean, to be randomly beaten up once, we're bad enough. To be randomly beaten up twice is mind-blowingly unfortunate.

9:29It's completely, I know what I'm going to do. It's obviously not funny, given the awful circumstance that Keegan does a ludicomic circumstances in his autobiography. So, I think it's okay to ludicit the next car along. He basically, he gets staggers out in his car after this attack, and he's completely bloodied and bruised. Staggers into the road and waves down next car as coming. And the poor driver's seen this manic man, and it turns out to be probably the most famous man in England, Kevin Keegan, waving him down and sent take me to the police station, which is just the most bizarre. You'd think you're in some kind of fever dream, obviously. But, yeah, so, anyway, that happens. But essentially, I think this quote from his autobiography sums up his time in Spain. He says, I can vividly remember the light bulb moment, one day at Las Brisas, which is the lovely golf club, in which he's playing at, where it's a golf club where I hit one of my two career hole in one, so you're helping me mention. You're having a standing omo? I don't play golf, so obviously, if I did, I would have died, I'm sure.

10:32I mean, it doesn't sound that difficult, I'm sure. Have you ever hit an old one? I hit the pin once, but didn't drop. I felt like you asked that question because you wanted me to do that. I mean, I've had to give up golf. I mean, I was never a good at golf, but I've had to give it up for my shoulder injuries. The reason I've given up golf... ...cricut is the same as the reason I've given up golf. The golf and the cricket world both mourn your department. So, yeah, he said he's standing over the 12th hole, worrying about what club to take. It struck me that maybe I'd blurred my life's priorities. I was 40 years old, and my golf partners tended to be retirees in their 60s or 70s. I'd made good friends, it was enjoyable, but it didn't seem right that my biggest problem in life was whether I should take a pitch and wedge, or a nine-eyed to the green. And I think that's... ...the really indicative of Keegan is that this life seems alluring, because I think he is burnt out by the life of his pros, many people are, but he can't leave it alone. He's just a bundle of energy, and he wants something more.

11:33And they've already moved back to Hampshire home, and he gets a call from Sir John Hall, who is a Newcastle business in a sun repute, but a degree of... ...mix views about Sir John Hall and Northeastern, other than not Johnathan. Well, I mean, he was a son and a fan to start with. And then he bought Newcastle and that then. I think it's all slightly suspicious. He bought Winnied Hall, which... ...Winnied Hall's place in the dark history of early 20th century Britain. I don't, actually. It's a very grand manor house, isn't it? Yeah, it's where meetings took place between representatives of Edward VIII and the Nazi government in 1936 to suggest whether the... ...the constitutional crisis that his desire to marry a divorcee was causing might... ...might so be hitched to the fascist cause. So, you know, it's a murky place. I mean, no, in research, I mean, he was... ...versus V emblematic. This is 1992 coming to the end of Margaret Factor's reign as prime minister.

12:34He was really a similar factorism in the 1980s in Northeastern. He built the Gateshead Shopping Centre, which is called the Metro Centre. Metro Centre, yeah. Which of the time was like... ...the largest shopping centre in Europe when it was built? He was seen as a symbol of regeneration, but, you know, I mean, other people say that, you know, he was quite a ruthless businessman. But anyway, he was probably the most dynamic businessman in Northeastern. The big friend of Margaret Factor, which should not endear him to many people in Northeastern. But he certainly was behind this next Renaissance on Newcastle United. Who have, and once again, hit one of their periodic sort of episodes... ...or near bankruptcy and failing, the team's failing, and everything's going a bit wrong. As you suggested, when Keegan left, they have a decade of kind of chaos. And again, with Scottish and Newcastle, the brewer we mentioned in part two, they come to Keegan and suggest that he should be manager. And at this stage, they are struggling in the second division,

13:37which the Premier League is yet to be inaugurated. So it's what we now know as a championship. They look like they're going down, and Keegan says, well, what would happen if we went down? And the director said, well, we'll be liquidated as a club. And when we just haven't got any money to go on, I mean, whether that would have happened to a club as big as Newcastle United, no club has even the berries have had sort of Phoenix clubs that have come back. But I mean, they are in a state of some jeopardy at the time. I remember these were the days when I had a Southern season ticket, and I'd go to every Southern home game, I'd go to a lot of Southern away games. But some Saturdays, if Newcastle would home, I'd go with my Newcastle sporting mates to St. James's. And I remember being at a game against Charlton, which would have been towards the end of that season. And they went three nil up inside, I don't know, half an hour. So seems to be playing pretty well. And then Carl Liebern, Scott Ahatric. And in the... I don't know.

14:37In my head, it was deep in injury time. It may have been slightly earlier than that. You can tell where this is going to end, can't you? Well, Steve Watson makes a brilliant diving-headed clearance off the line. Steve Watson was a great young coming hope for Newcastle football. The balls put back in the middle of the limo-brime slice into his own net. They lose four-three to Charlton. And I was afraid I'd disgrace myself as a Southern fan, I couldn't stop laughing. So I was... I'd buy a crush bar, I had my head down in the barrier, my shoulder's shaking. To try and hide the fact I was likely to be stuck in the... Probably, probably best not done at that moment of emotional pain on the... And the... The... On the Gallagher, yeah. And the... Just in the corner by the Melbourne stand. There was an element of man-cityitis about them at this period, like... Yeah, it was. ...and turned to not gold, let's say. Well, what I remember very clearly, and it sort of seems so prophetic in retrospect, was this old bloke in front of me, who thinks I'm crying, and puts his hand on my shoulder, and goes, Hey, don't worry, son,

15:38King Kev will be back soon to serve us. Unless the people were talking about Keegan coming back. And I don't know how well-sourced those we must were, but there was a sense that the Messiah from 1982, who got into the top division in 1984, that he was the man who had to be brought in. I mean, there is an... I've labeled a section return of the King, and it really has that Tolkien or biblical feel to it. And I know football lends itself to messianic figures, but I think Keegan and Habits have rolled better than anyone. I mean, you can explain... Why do you think there was that yearning? Is it combined with the industrial declines we discussed in last period in the 1980s, of the region, and that Keegan has seen as dynamic leader who brings a degree of hope to people in a city? Yeah, but it's also because he left when he did. I mean, his centre timing, I think, was excellent, that he could see that the first evsion season after they got pro,

16:39was going to be difficult because there was no money. As we said, last time Arthur Cox left, because there was no money, the manager. So he was associated purely with the hope, with the promotion, and he's not tainted by what happens next. So, if you're looking for a figure who was there the last time it was good, it was him. Plus, of course, he's got the charisma. He is still this celebrity figure, this superstar. He does have his roots in the region, that his father was in the castle farm, that his grandfather had been a hero in a mind disaster. There was a sense that there was something extremely special about him. And again, I don't know how well understood this was at the time, but in the castle is about to boom, and John Hall is part of that. But in the castle went from being this really miserable bleak place in the 80s, to suddenly the key side, the big market, the places you wanted to go. I know, obviously there's still problems. The Mediwell riots, they were in 1993.

17:44I think, you know, a housing estate where there was a big culture of ram-raiding, and it was called twacking, taking with that, and it's constantly... To be able to out consent, yeah. So there's a very 1990s phrase. And then police had chased these kids to Nick DeCar, and there was a crashing. I don't come in with kids with like inches or kills, but this then led to this, a great eruption of anger on the Mediwell estate. So I'm not pretending, everything suddenly was great, but the castle was about to take off in a way that the rest of the office was... The rebuild in St James's Park is going to be part of that, because it really becomes this cathedral in a city centre, and it dominates a city rather like Durham Cathedral, dominates Durham, and it feels kind of like the different religions of those two cities are symbolised in those two buildings. I certainly refer to Newcastles rather than Meek Cathedral. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, Cathedral is often underwhelming actually in many cities,

18:46but Durham definitely isn't anyway, enough North-East geography. But Durham, it might be a returning Messiah, and Arson Vingers, wonderful phrase, also about Newcastle manager, Alan Shearer, being appointed. It's emotional doping, isn't it? He's literally... He's watched two matches in seven years. He says, and before he goes back to be managing Newcastle, one was the European cut-finement between Redstone Marseille, which he says was the worst game of all time. I think he might take some issue with him, but anyway, it was Neil Neil, and he went back to some Centenary game at Newcastle United, which was also a school history. So he's totally unfit to take this job. You think of a modern era of data, and ask the players, and sort of knowing your opponents, and scouting. He really has no footprint, full knowledge. He gets his old mate, Terry McDermott, from Liverpool, who will become a real loyal sidekick during this period. And he kind of almost imagined him joined at the hit, Terry Mac and Kevin Keegan, don't you?

19:47And they go back to the... They go back to tour the club when they've been in juice to come and join it. And Terry Mac just says, what a shit hole. I mean, he's looking at the training ground and the stadium. Nothing's been done for ten years. Well, they ended up training Dan at Made in Castle, which is Dan University's facility. Yeah, very near where my aunt and uncle lived. Yeah, that's where I played a lot of hockey. Made in Castle. Exactly. The listeners are fascinated by all those harmonics about Durham, Countryside. And he doesn't know any of the players. He says, I had no idea whether Kevin Scott was a defender midfielder or striker. I'd met Mickie Quinn at the races, so that was a start. I'd seen Ray Ransson from Manchester City, and I had good reports about David Kelly. But I had no idea who it's of Andy Hunt, Lee Makill, David Robinson, basically the hard-tower first-eam Scott. No idea. I think what's interesting about Newcastle, just as a footnote in this period, in the use setup. And this is often true of failing clubs.

20:47At the top, they can be complete chaos and the leadership's awful. But you find that youth team scouts and the infrastructure is actually quite good, because they just keep getting on for their job. You've got Lee Clark, Steve Watson, Steve Howie, Alan Thompson, and Robbie Elliott. Still coming through that sort of sense of the Northeast and Newcastle in particular, being a rich seam to mine. Like there's always youngsters coming through clubs like Walson Boys Club and being well-coached and well-drilled. Those players will form a core of Kegins at revival. Anyway, he takes a job. The first game is against Bristol City. He has no idea. He says the only thing I know about Bristol City was that he played at Ashton Gate and they had a Robin on their crest. I knew nothing else, but I think they win that game. But basically, they go out of really good winning run and accommodating in a great moment, Jonathan, don't they? All of you for you and despite his lack of football knowledge and despite the fact that he even manages to mistake, he talks to the Cambridge United manager for about 10 minutes

21:48and thinks it's John Beck and he's got completely wrong man because he has no idea who is who in football. Despite all of this, they go on his great winning run and it looks like they're going to save himself. Calmating, the glorious moment, Jonathan, where they beat Sunderland and the Derby. So everybody's happy, aren't they? Yeah, I mean, it's like disappointing game by, and Sunderland. I think what we should stress, they were very distracted by the fact that they had the FA Cup final to play in, which was very much the priority. So yes, David Kelly may well have scored the winner in that game. But I think... This was not an important derby for Sunderland. No, no, no, no. But both sides, you know, something came out without any injuries and you've also got the three points to stay up. It was a good day for all the North East. Well, they didn't get the three points to stay up, actually. And thereafter, presumably you were laughing your heads off because it looks like they've kind of saved themselves. They've still got about six or seven games to play. And they lose the next five on the spin. They completely fall apart. I got thrashed at Wolves, didn't I remember? There was a six to two defeated Wolves. They've got, you know, lost four on a derby. But then they end up winning the last two games,

22:49so they beat Potometh and Lester. Well, this is so Kevin Keegan, is that, yeah, I mean, the sense of all his managerial career is just going to be this one vast roller coaster. He can't just win eight games on a trot, we're safe. We're just proud of his. They have to take it to the wild. So last game of the season, they don't know. They kind of have to win at Lester to guarantee they're staying up. But if results go in different ways, a draw might be enough. But, you know, there's still, you know, they don't exist. And remember, they're going to be liquidated if they go down. They're one and up in, in the 90th minute. So everything seems fine when they can see to Lester. So they basically have these two or three minutes. You know, oh my goodness, are we going down? And then in classics, sort of, I don't know, whether it's of Lester fashion, Newcastle fashion, Lester then scored no goal in the 93rd minute. So they are staying up. They would have stayed up anyway. But it is just the sense of chaos and up and down. And in the middle of this sort of run at the beginning, Keegan's threatening to quit and walk out because he's had an argument with John Hall. The usual kind of Kevin Keegan argument.

23:50Funds had been promised. He feels they're not being delivered on. I mean, they're literally ready. He and Terry Mac are ready to leave the club. And then Terry Mac says, talks him down from the ring because they've come on. Let's just go back into the Swindon game. They win that and they managed to talk to it all out. So even within his first six months, you've seen all the tropes of a Keegan managerial reign. But that said, having stayed up, he now starts talking about getting promoted to what is going to be the Premier League. He talks about building a dynasty to match Liverpool. I mean, this is frankly madness. I mean, there's no suggesting a Newcastle in a modern era. Could do anything like that. They've been a massively underachieving club. Have won no trophies. I mean, it just seems... But this is the Bill Shankley in him, is it? Exactly. It's Bill Shankley. I mean, Bill Shankley goes to Liverpool when they're in the second division. All right. The economic climate football is different. But he starts talking about making the greatest team of worlds ever seen. And at the time, it must be Bill Whiteyan about. Come on.

24:50And it's the same thing. You're talking big and then living up to it. Or nearly living up. Looking like they might for a while live up to it. There is an element to manifesting things into being. And I don't mean in a super spiritual sense. I just mean that sometimes by speaking the words, you can invoke the confidence in people and make things happen. And Keegan certainly has that quality up to a point. We'll also... Of course, we're discusses limitations in the second half of this. But I mean, really, it seems a nonsense claim. And yet, they do information to the Premier League as champions. And that's not so remarkable. They get a lot of money behind them. They make some really good signings. They've got players like David Kelly, Gavin Peekle, quite good, Rob Lee comes in from Chelten. He also really smartly. He is very Keegan. I guess all charismatic man she is. He brings in experienced players like Paul Bracewell, Brian Kilclane, and Barry Venison. You know, Venison's one, Titus with Liverpool. So there's a good mix of youth and experience in that team.

25:50Well, and Venison, of course, is a former Southern captain. As was Paul Bracewell. Then they signed Bracewell directly from Sondland. Bracewell, I think, he had four years of Sondland and never scored. What happens on his debut first air season? 25 years of screen, but cheers Paul, thanks for that. Yeah, you're a big fan of Paul Bracewell. I can tell it's over time that the pain has clearly passed. Well, he was not a great assistant manager for Sondland either, Paul Bracewell. He was a great footballer for Sondland, but he ran a blogger's carcass book in the summer night. Anyway, we haven't done an ad for Better Help therapy for a while, but I'm just saying they are available, John. But, and famously, they signed Andy Cole from Bristol City in the end of that season. And he scores loads of goals, actually. I mean, he's only plays about 10 games in that promotion, win a season. But in the Premier League known as a Premiership then, he scores 34 league goals in that first season. He's kind of unstoppable. I mean, I actually think we've discussed before, we've discussed the 95 for 96 season, briefly in a minute.

26:51Their reputation, great entertainers, really comes from these early days. They really are a swashbuckling inside the actual season where they are most in the spotlight. I think they only score about 67 goals, don't they? It's a very basic old enough again, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But in this period, it just feels like they're flowing forward. It's very Kevin Keegan football. It's very idealistic football. It's not actually what I always think. It's not very Bob Paisley or Bill Shankley football. No, no, no, no. Much more cautious. It's almost like he's got swept up inside the idealism and like, well, we can just do this. And as a full-signature, we're just overwhelmed. Other sides very much if they score four, with score five. He signs Peter Beard's Lee from Liverpool. I mean, that Cole Beard's Lee partnership is brilliant, isn't it? I mean, he just, Beard's Lee just sits in number 10, dinks in little balls often over the top or three balls for Cole to run on to. Well, the odd thing about that, that's exactly how David Kelly and Mick Quinn used to play. And Sonland had Gates and Gabby Deenie or then Davinport and Gabby Deenie did the same thing.

27:54When I was going to have that seen the only way you could play. So he takes the template, then he just upgrades the players. And, yeah, I'm going to say to be fair to Kelly and Quinn, that's quite a serious upgrade, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they go, they come third and sixth in the top flight. So, okay, he has not quite built the dynasty that he promised in winning league. But, I mean, that's a pretty good transition from a club that's on the Brink and Liquidation to, like, now being one of the top six established top six sides. And the crowds are booming. And as you say, the city's booming at this time, isn't it? And, I mean, there's all sorts of trouble with the players. I mean, because the city's booming, everyone's going out. There's a lot of money in the 1990s coming out of a second period of recession and about to enter the Blair boom years. Because of that, Newcastle's thriving and the players are very often tipped out. And I just feel like every week there was a story of a player getting into trouble, getting into a fight or, you know, some young women saying this player was nasty to me.

28:59It did feel like Newcastle was a place to be to pick up tabloid Newt stories in that day. Well, it's probably up to some wasn't. It wasn't talking about Kevin Dyer talking about Newcastle as a goldfish bowl. And it is. I mean, it's, I think it's an incredibly beautiful city. I'm very proud, Sonn has it as a northern suburb. But it is small. And, you know, in that, that is part of its charm that you can walk across it very quickly. That it's everything's packed onto that bank. You've renegated side of it across the views. We're amazing up to the castle and the cathedral and all the bars on the bank. But they've been those every business because it is a goldfish bowl. That city center, particularly where people go out in the evening is tight. It's really tight concentration even for a city center of bars and clubs in a little cluster on that hill there from the key side up to the city center, isn't it?

29:59Which again is why it's going to heal drinking and clapping on you. It's, you know, and, and, you know, to, to, everything is there. If you want a quite old man pub, which even at 18 I did. There's plenty of them. But if you want something a lot lively, that's also there. So I mean, maybe you saw mixing together and it's, I mean, it's, it's, I don't think it's anywhere near as sort of lively as it was in the 90s now, but it's still. I mean, if I'm saying it's a good night out at age 50, it's probably not going to go out. It can be, it can be like one big happy family, but generally, we're one o'clock in the morning. It's disintegrating to one big family argument, but yes, it's, it's, it's got a certain vibe of it's own. And also that, that, that training ground that made in castle, they invite the public in half term. I mean, I went to visit them then and as she's my chance to tell my keegan story, because I think there is a bit like I grew up in, as I've mentioned before, in Watford and Grand Taylor. And sometimes the personality can dominate a town or a city and Taylor did that at Watford.

31:00The whole vibe was driven by his personality. And, and I don't know what you felt, perhaps you felt a bit begrudging living there, but it did feel like the whole place was, to, to was taking off. And the keegan was part of that. Yeah, I mean, I'm very pleased that I was no longer so at school in Newcastle. By that point, yeah, I left school in 1994. So I had six months in India where, listen to the world service as they extoled Newcastle. It was awful. And then that, yeah, I was at university, so I could get away from it to an extent. And obviously in hindsight, it's great, you know, they didn't win anything. It was fine, but at the time, it, in particular given Sonland were very up and down at this period. It was, it wasn't, it wasn't Sonland very nearly went down to the third place. Oh, well, she was a season where, away at North County on the final day. And if Cambridge hadn't, we were three no down, and 20 minutes have came. But you hadn't got thrashed, really gone down. Was that 93 or 93 or 94? One of them too, anyway. But they were bleak times compared and, and, and seeing Newcastle with all this money,

32:00buying all these exciting players, playing this great football. Oh, everybody loves some brilliant. It was awful. Yeah. I mean, and I went up and actually it's the following season, and I'm actually going to talk about after the break, but I think it's worth, stories worth telling now, that I remember getting up to and to be less ferdinand. And this is my first interaction, major interaction with Kevin Keegan. And either training ground was just buzzing, but then we were meeting him at the stadium. And so we, Trape's courses have targeted stadium. And I'm sitting outside in reception and, um, we're waiting half an hour. This is typical when you're in忍ning football. So I'm not that alone. I'm 45 minutes, no less ferdinand. Suddenly Kevin Keegan walks through reception. See, he's asked, walks into his office, pops out again and goes, oh, oh, you the two lads sort of here for, let's ferdinand. And I said, yeah, yeah, we are. And, you know, I'm a mid 20s at time. I bear in mind, he was my childhood idol. So I'm a little bit, um, bored by this. And he says, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I've sent, let's, this is so Kevin Keegan. Les has gone off to the hospital to do the Santa Claus, given the gift now.

33:03And I said he had to go the whole club had to go. And I said, Les, you, I mean, Les really was the star of the team at that point. So, you know, it would have been poor show if you're not show night. I said, oh, I'm so sorry. I've sent him off there. He's going to be a couple of hours. I'm going, I look at it my watch going, okay, then he goes and then Kevin, but the way in which he engaged with you, I contact, he was generally sorry. He was explaining a situation going, obviously I couldn't say he couldn't not go to the hospital. And then my crown, he said, can I get your cup of tea or something? And I was like, Kevin Keegan was asking me for a cup of tea. I was going, yeah, white one, sugar, please. And he was going, no, no, I saw that out and he's got, he's taking our orders. He's run back in. And sadly, it wasn't Kevin who came out. I think he sent his assistant or secretary out to bring the teas out. I was, I was quite looking forward to Kevin Keegan to the different teas. But even notwithstanding the fact that he was my childhood, I also was ready to be impressed. There was a, in that communication, he made you feel like, oh, that's fine. I'll wait two hours, well as for Nana totally understand.

34:04And you could see the impact that you could have on players on individuals. He was just very good with people and explaining situations. Which had just finished with the last great scene of this before the sort of great collapse season. Which is in the middle of this brilliant run of form, and they seem to be challenging, mansion-inted. They sell, Andy Cole. They're star player, two mansionists united. And the sense of betrayal on a new castle is huge. And there are literally people, lynch mob on the gates of James's parks that are like demanding explanations. Well, I think he's explained it to us now. Why they were so angry. And it's because this previous, you know, the eight years between the two Keegan periods, they've seen pierbards, the Chris Waddle, Paul Gasco and all leave. And this, this taint of being, we are a selling club. We produce this incredible talent and it goes. And OK, Andy Cole was not created by any castle,

35:06but they identified him, they brought him in from Bustal City. And it's the same pattern repeating. So that's why I think there was such anger. Yeah, that's a good point. A nice street. Yeah, had they kept the dream, as always, had we kept those three players together? What could we have done? I mean, there are three of England's best ever players, obviously. And yeah, Keegan, I do think this is Keegan's greatest moment. And exemplifies him beyond all other. I mean, basically he says in his autobiography that you can see the mob gathering outside Douglas Hall, who's John Hall's son, who's a director, is busily cool in security. And so he gets the car, we're going to rush out the back. And Keegan typically goes, no, no, we've just got to go and talk to them. That's all they want is an explanation. I'm not sure, Kevin. And he goes, come on, let's go down and talk to them. And as he gets to the steps and he's going to step out there, he can hear how angry it is and how people are really gearing and shouting, at which point he turns round. And the only person left is Terry McDermott, or director, and Scarlett, but back up to in typical Lord Kitchener fashion.

36:07And he takes it on, he goes out, and he says, for the first time in my life, I was met by cheers and booze at St. James's Park. And you'll have, I mean, we're watching it live on Sky Sports News, which had just become a thing. You know, you literally watching this happen and going, this is going to get really nasty. I mean, people were properly angry. And then he starts explaining, look, you've got to trust me. I don't think, essentially, he's fallen out with Andy Cole, and he doesn't think he's training hard enough. And he feels he can use that money to upgrade. But he doesn't say all that because trust me, I'm going to bring people in. We're still going to win the league. And people are starting to say, oh, hold on, shut up. Let him speak. Let him speak. Let's listen to him. And there's a whole exchange going on. And Keegan's ability to just communicate with people. I mean, dare I say, it was like the Prime Minister who's about to come in off that age, Tony Blair, with whom he famously played head tennis. And I didn't realise, actually, he was so close to that the Blair came around to dinner as house once.

37:07I didn't realise he would. Yeah, I didn't know. And that relates back to what we talked about in the earlier parts. And he was really upset with the association with Thatcherism and Margaret Thatcher. Tony Blair is much more his kind of man at Labour politician. But there is a similarity in a two when they get them together to play head tennis. I think it's in 96 just before Blair's elected. These sort of relatively young men sort of represented a modern new dynamic, industrial north Blair's constituency. He felt, though, he's from his in County Durham and he grew up in Chinklet in County Durham. So he, although he sounds like a sadner, he's actually a north nozzanly. Their communication skills seemed to me to be very similar. Their ability to connect with people and kegens, perhaps even superior in being able to just talk people around and confront that mob. I think everything that's good about Kerry and Kevon is represented in that scene. No, absolutely. Yeah, the recognition that there is a responsibility to the fans. And then it is, I think it's an almost biblical scene of talking to the mob car.

38:11But with that thought, let's go into the break and we'll come back to finish off our three-part special on Kevin Keegan. Join us then. There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep. And it's the softest 100% organic cotton bedding from bowl and branch. You'll fall asleep faster, wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep hot again with airy blankets, cloud-like duvetes and breathable sheets. You'll experience pure comfort on night one and fill your bedding get softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 15% off your first order at bowlenbranch.com with code buttery. Exclusion Supply. See site for details. Hi, it's Brooke DeVard, host of Naked Beauty and I want to talk about how I upgrade my hosting experience. There's a moment just before guests arrive when my home stops feeling like a series of rooms and it becomes an atmosphere. The light settles the air shifts and then the beautiful scent of Jasmine, Rosenfig, fill the air. It feels warm and considered.

39:11That's what Pura does. It turns fragrance into environment. A collection of beautiful, clean fragrances all controlled from your phone. Choose your sense of place at Pura.com. So welcome back to the second half of the third part of our series on Kevin Keegan. So we left Keegan at Newcastle in the summer of 1995. Now we have done an episode just on that season and in fact we've done an episode on the 4th 3 and we're on the defeat to Liverpool. So we're not going to go into that in a huge amount of detail. If you want detail on that, do go back and look at those previous episodes. We'll put the links in the description. But basically in Newcastle they win 9 of their first 10 games. Everything's going great. They're 12 points clear by the end of January and then it starts to fall apart. United, Manchester United, keep winning games 1-0 and Newcastle have that 4-3 defeat at Liverpool and it all goes wrong.

40:17And we discussed on that episode really the two great personalities this year. It are Kevin Keegan, Alex Ferguson and I thought actually I thought it was interesting that Keegan was saying in his most recent speaking tour. They doesn't like Alex Ferguson but respects him. I mean they are very different. Ferguson is just a hard faced winner and we'll do what it takes to win. And Keegan is an ultimately an idealist and you see that that is, if it's the floor, that is his floor isn't it? We're talking about shortcomings. There is a streak of naivety both in his wanting to connect with people and believe the best of them and in his tactics. Come on let's just play some entertaining football. I'm sure we'll work out. And we should say given that we left him on the steps in James' Park arguing with fans, they absolutely deliver on their promise to strengthen the team. They're bringing Les Ferdinand a much better plan and Nicole I believe. I don't know much better but I think you could argue is certainly a like for like replacement maybe an upgrade in his strengths and obviously a lot of people around him.

41:21He's a much more rounded player. Yeah, absolutely. He gives you much more versatility to your game. Warren Barton, Shackah, his love content and then famously we talked about this in the episode 9596 and Puyentina Raspriya. Aspriya's tribute Keegan was really false and wasn't it? Really moving, yeah. Yeah, I mean all the players, I mean it shows the connection he had with them. But given that Aspriya's time at Newcastle was a bit shaky it was interesting that he still resonates. And also Aspriya's life has been packed with so much for him to take time out to remember one manager. I don't have him as he had but many. I'm getting a big sense of this. I'm getting a few over the time. So yeah, I've found that very moving. And after that season where it all completely falls apart, I mean do you remember that summer they signed Alan Shira for 15 million again. I thought Shira's tribute was lovely as well. No, I remember very clearly because I was on a ferry going to Ireland for Sondland's Preseason Tour. I don't think you know my kids. Absolutely ruined the mood.

42:22We've been having quite a nice time and there's a, oh God. You're thinking they will win the league now. Well, I mean how can they not with they've got Shira and Verdunand. They claim very close to season before they're clearly going to be a stronger side. Shira is by far the best striker in the Premier League at the time. I remember Brendan Foster saying that he was sitting some other part of the world at athletics meeting. And obviously Brendan Foster famously in athletics and Olympic medallist but famous Newcastle fan just feeling so proud. This is the world record transfer that my club and I think again is exemplifies a pride that this is bringing to the city and the region. My club could afford the best player in the world for a world record transfer. I know the other reason. No, the other reason why they're so delighted by it. It's because Sondland had held the world transfer record four times. That was the first time they ever held it. Yeah, I'm thinking. I think it might be. I think everyone may be forgotten about Sondland's track. No, I don't think I'm going to have this. And Shira, I think the other thing that's significant about this is a cool Shira is a Jaldi who's gone to Southampton and Blackburn.

43:28And so there's a sense of we're re-gathering the tribes isn't it? We might as well be able to get into the modern gas coin. But now we're bringing, we're big enough now to bring the best Jaldi's back to Newcastle. And it is generally Shira's dream to play for Newcastle. And then, really, sacrifice is he could have gone to United and won everything. Yeah. And he basically wins nothing at Newcastle. I mean, that Premier League title, he wins, will be his last, that Blackburn Roe, is his last trophy that he'll win. But he fulfills his boyhood dream, so he says he doesn't regret it. And they have this extraordinary match in the autumn where they absolutely tonk Manchinite at five in the St. James's Park. And in terms of great entertainers, that is a great match. And Philip Albeirs do little shimmies and coming out of the fence. And then scores that amazing goal with him. Yeah. I mean, it's like watching Brazil, it really is. So they win five-0. I've talked to our boss Gary Neve, at length that is game. And I think it's probably his worst game of his life. He says, Jin, that absolutely murdered him. And John Nehaul, the chairman, famously in Bombassoli, comes out up to the press from the end of it.

44:30And says, ladies and gentlemen, you have seen the future champions of England. And as Keegan points out, he was 100% correct because Manchinite is in the league that way. And by the time they win the league, Keegan's left. Already left. And I think this is crucial juncture, not just in Keegan's life, but in football's life, because coming with the great economic growth of the 1990s is an increase in domination of City of London. And several clubs are going to try and float on a City of London. It's not the fashion now. They've all gone back into private and private equity ownership. But at the time, it's seen as a route to easy finance. Newcastle and obviously the whole family are very keen on this because they're going to have all the shares, which are going to sell for a huge amount. They're going to make millions out of it. And everybody at the club is focused on this sort of flotation of the club. And basically, there's a banker, Mark Corbridge, who's six Keegan down and says, mate, you've got to sign a ten-year contract or else we can't deflateation. Keegan thinks this is outrageous and goes, basically, saying to Dougie and John,

45:32look, these people have only arrived five minutes. You can imagine this guy is a 32-year-old banker from London. Generally in North England, people have really opened a receptive to Londoners in suits and ties with push-axons. I've found in my life that you're really embracing those types of counts, particularly if we start telling you sort of what you really need to do. And that always goes down really well. Keegan, a professional author, is going, this guy's just turned up. And he's telling me what to do. How have we got here? In reality, that is just how the new world works. And Venga does this at Arsenal. He basically commits, I think, to five or ten years, so I didn't get a stadium built. Because finance will not lend you loads of money if the situation's really unsecure. So they need that at the time. But Keegan is very much shun from shankling a different age, I think. And just doesn't do compromise with this new era. And I'm not saying he was wrong in that. And you could argue that, well, actually Newcastle, you do pretty well under Robson and, you know, in subsequent years, don't they?

46:35But you could argue that maybe he was right in the soul of football. But the practicalities are that he needed to sign that contract to get the flotation away. He refuses to do so. And therefore he walks out mid-season. So from five-nil in the autumn, potential champions, Alan Shere has come back to join his boyhood idol, Keegan. He's gone. And Newcastle, low in kind of, you know, back, back sort of, I mean, they get Kelly D'Aglician, finds you don't know Bobby Robson. And Keegan seems to have walked away from football forever. Yeah, I mean, the assumption was he was doing what he'd done in 1984, that we wouldn't see him again. That was it. I mean, he never seemed a career manager, I think it's fair to say. But he did seem... It seemed like Newcastle might be the one job he'd do. It should also be said that that season began to go wrong pretty quickly after the five-nil win. Yeah. They won one of their next ten games. So I do wonder if that had something to do with it. His sense of timing, you feel that way.

47:37Well, I just say, yeah, I think... I'm not saying that the issue of my coverage was an excuse. But maybe his desire to find solution would have been greater. Had they not had suffered this downturn in form. But he is tempted back into football in May 1998 by another... I mean, I suppose a much worse man than John Hall. But another large of a life businessman in Muhammad Al-Faird, who gets to perform. Yeah. I mean, kind of represents... I mean, they're not in a Premier League during the third tier at the time. So again, it's a very left-field move from Keegan. Al-Faird again, tempts him in. Basically, I'm sure I think this is all of Ruiz. Al-Faird says he's really interested in setting up a soccer circuit. And Keegan's like, oh, my soccer circuit is fantastic. And ends up in talks. And he says, well, while we're doing the soccer circuit, it's a bit on the back burner. Why do you become director of operations at my club, Fulham, which he's just bought? And Al-Faird does provide the impetus for Fulham to be the club they are today. I think most Fulham fans will tell you that. He makes them dream big and gets people in like Keegan, followed by Sean Tegan,

48:40and I have to take them up. And eventually, Keegan appoints Ray Wilkinsons manager. But that goes horribly wrong, Ray. QPR manager as well. And a man, I kind of knew a little bit. It was a lovely man, but suffering from alcoholism and he's really not fit for management. So Keegan, it ends up taking over. Takes the club up. Well, he's in the middle of taking them up as champions. And again, in true swashbuckling style, 101 points. In the middle of that season, when Glenn Hoddle, the England manager, makes his interditious marks and offensive marks. Let's be straight about disabled people and reincarnation. And has to resign as England manager. And suddenly England has stuck. There's no one to take over the team. A really promising team that under Hoddle has looked like even at 1998, well, cut, like they might go on and do something. Who could possibly take on the England team? What kind of messa-annick figure do we need in this moment? Who does the country call for Jonathan? Hey, call for Kevin Keegan. And there's a great back and forth, isn't he? Kevin Goen, but I love it.

49:40I think he's genuine about this because he says in his book, I really regret leaving for them because the England job will go horribly for him. And he is out of his depth, which he admits. He actually likes being the guy who's that quote at the beginning. He's bringing hope and passion to a club. And he can take clubs through the divisions. And maybe he can't do the final bit of doing the shankly bit of winning the title. But he loves it when he's on that wave. But people are saying, come on, Kevin. The nation needs you and the press will behind it. And Muhammad Al-Fahed, grandiosly says, oh, he's my gift to the nation, as though he kind of owns him. You know, and let's, he literally jobs shares the England job with being a third tier manager for about six months before he finally takes it over full time. And he calls the chapter in his book, very aptly, it's called The Poison Chalice, the England job. I mean, it's really not a good time. It starts badly. And I think this is, again, Keegan has this mix of, as I say, thinks the best of everyone, but certainly of journalists,

50:41because we can be quite cynical, Bunch. He's really paranoid about them. And Nigel Clark, who you will have known for an amirah, is apparently, in the first press conference, he's sort of coughing. And I was reading this, Richard Williams writes about this in the garden. Nigel is an inadvertently coughing. You know, he's a large in life character, big tabloid figure at a time. And Keegan thinks he's taking a mic out of him and being disrespectful. And there's a massive standoff. And that kind of starts, his England brain, you're thinking, well, this probably isn't actually reminding me of clock taking over German job. The other wing said, I'm going to walk out if you're nasty to me. I think, yeah, this is probably going to end in similar fashion. That once you get too big almost for the job, this isn't going to end well. And they do terribly in year-at-a-thousand. There's a typical Keegan performance where they're playing. It's a really good Portugal side. They're Lee's Fugo and Ruchoster, that golden generation. They go to Nalapin 20 minutes. It's fantastic. And then they lose three, two, because they can't hold on to leader tall.

51:42And I think they then lose two. They beat Germany in the worst game ever. Oh, turbo game. But it's a bit of a shambles. There's all sorts of stories about card schools and how it's been sort of like a Buckland's camp under Keegan. I mean, you could argue that's good for morale. And that Keegan, you know, a light of touch was welcome after Glenn Hodels, quite austere, ashi. But anyway, all defeats are an awful thing, aren't they? I mean, if you go out in qualifying, then how you prepared a team is always going to be sort of come under judgment. And I think Martin Samuel was writing about his death. I think this is a really interesting story, wrote when Keegan passed away. Samuel remembers that the Times journalist remembers going to the draw for 2002 World Cup, which Keegan would have been preparing for because at this point he was still England manager. And Keegan's kind of sitting there was about two or three journalists. And they've qualified for the Euros, but they did so bit sketchy, didn't they?

52:43You know, they won in a playoff against Scotland, which was a lost home game at Wembley. Yeah, I mean, but they'd won 2-1 on aggregate. So always fine. No, it was nothing burger really. It's like, yeah, OK, a bit embarrassing to leave Scotland, but you're through. Don't worry about it. And Martin says that, you know, as you do in the occasion, you throw up a light oat and say, oh, you know, good qualification, Keegan, you know, say looking forward, you know, we think about a World Cup, and Keegan goes, no, no, no, it wasn't a good qualification. We lost to Scotland, I'd have to have gone. And I guess I can't say. That's just spec'd in a really banal chat about, you know, how England needs a dream about Tokyo. What do you mean you need to go, oh, now that would have been terrible. You know, that would have just shown my limitations. We lost to Scotland. 100% I'd have had to quit as manager. Suddenly you've got this massive story. And Martin says, and Keegan had disability, like he's just oversharing, isn't he? Really? You know, in a way that a modern football manager never would. And he said, all the journalists go from thinking, half he's thinking this is a bat-page lead brilliant.

53:45And they're just all going, Keegan, you wouldn't have had to go on. And they're going to council a therapist mode. And Keegan, Kevin, settle down, it's fine. You beat Scotland, he's going, no, no, no, no, I'm principal. You know, I'm not good enough. And I can, no, you are good enough. You can do it. Come on, Kevin. Pull yourself together. And I just felt it really was a Kevin Keegan moment. Anyway, he ends up at Cut Along Story's Shore, the last ever game at Wembley, quite symbolically, the old Wembley before it's redeveloped, is against Germany well-cut qualifying. They lose embarrassingly one meal to Diddy Harmon. I mean, in typical Keegan fashion, he's kind of overthought it. And he's putting Garas Southgate in a midfield or in a back three, you know, sort of as a sort of conduit between those two areas. He's completely changed his tactics for the game. But worse than that, it leaks out on the Friday night. And that Sky program Sunday Supplement, which used to be called Hold Back Page, used to be on a Friday night. And basically on a Friday night, his team's been discussed by, I think it's Henry Winter,

54:49Oli Hol, and friends and colleagues of ours, and Steve Curry and Brian Walner, who used to host the show, sort of four very big figures. Classic lineup, yeah, great, great hold back, right? And they're all just killing Keegan, and this is Matt. I mean, they're all right, but they're all correct, by the way, and this isn't going to work. It's a disaster. What on earth is he doing? Keegan's literally watching a show on Friday night. I mean, this is not good mental preparation for a big game. He's watching a show called an up sky, and go, this is disgraceful. You must stop the transmission. Sky, I kind of go, we've got Kevin Keegan on the line saying, and obviously they don't stop the transmission. But he feels a betrayed the team's leaked, and feels he's completely lost the trust of people. So when they lose that game, he ends up resigning famously to FA executives. The only David Davis, he said, the only quiet place we could find was a toilet, sort of dressing room. So Keegan always mentions that, yeah, and the only thing he would be, I remember about my playing career as I'm Mr. Header against Spain, the only thing they remember about my manager,

55:49or career as I resigned in the toilets. So just quickly, there are two more phases of his managerial career. So he goes to Manchester City, where he's moderately successful. I think he's a beacon of stability in that. I mean, Joe Rol had a two or three years before him, but really, if you think of City Pre, sort of the takeover, the shakeman's a takeover, it was a manager every year, and he stays for best part of four seasons. He gets them classically promoted from what is now the first division, 99 points. So really attacking side brings in lots of experienced players, Michael, MacMannum and Fowler, David James. And people like Jack Pitt broke your colleague from Libero, saying that he's a city fan. Really, remember that side really fondly? I mean, I think city fans really enjoyed that period. They would did play a lot of attacking football, but a little bit in Keegan function. They sort of end up to eighth or ninth, don't they? And then they sort of fall away. And eventually he ends up resigning. I mean, he's going to leave at the end of 2004 or five seasons, but he ends up leaving in March.

56:54Good things are just peaturing out. They have that great comeback at Spurs, where there's a classic Keegan going. Was that a game? Why are you? Well, they're talking about it. The next three and a half time, and then this is a great bit, though. The three and a half time. Keegan goes into the half time team tour and goes, what are you doing, lad? It's like they've got an extra player on one of the players' pipes up. Well, they have now, because Joey's just come self-send off in the tunnel for swearing at the ref. And Keegan's head in the hands, and OK, let's make sure we don't concede seven. And the punchline is... They come back and win it for three. I think it's John Mackin's score twice. I remember this game. As runners go, that was a tricky one. You had it all sorted at half time. The final whistle was... The shambles, anyway. But what is also very Kevin Keegan, a very man city in this period about that game, is they have this great comeback. They lose the next round to Manchester United for two. So it kind of doesn't really mean anything, but it was great while it lasted.

57:57And when he leaves city, he kind of thinks, well, that's it. He says that's me done. He's very open about England was too much for me, I mean, in his book. And all his interviews go, yeah, I wasn't good enough fair play. I couldn't do the tactics. So again, I think that's why people love Keegan's, because he doesn't pretend he's better than he is. And he does sell a bit of soccer circus at last, if I ask you. And that was his soccer circus finding Glasgow. And then he lasts a few years. I'd be really interested to know what it actually constitutes, what actually goes on at soccer circus. I mean, you don't have horses presumably. You see me don't have animals and leopards and you have like ballers doing tricks. I'd get to know. Absolutely no idea. But anyway, his final act in football is his third coming to Unicastle, deeply misjudged. So Mike Ashley has taken over. I'm Mike Ashley is in his man of the people phase where he's drinking paint illegally in the stands. And everybody loves him. And he thinks, why do we want us to get Keegan back? So we'll get Keegan back. And Keegan stupidly goes back and finds out it's not as advertised and walks out almost immediately.

59:03Yeah, well, even the original my side only had one. And we had a second coming. So going for a third coming is perhaps pushing it. Keegan's hubris, maybe it worked there. I mean, he just loves the idea. I think he genuinely loves the city and loves the idea of bringing hope to these fans again. And it does feel like Mike Ashley here at this stage. He feels like, oh, we've got this charismatic businessman, maybe it's another John Hall era. I mean, classically he's from the South Eastern London again. I've mentioned how much more of the love having Southerners and Charger gloves. But in reality, he doesn't have the sensibility of John Hall who I does understand the club in the region. He completely misreads it. But the other thing that struck me about research and this is the area where they have Dennis Wise and this Chaptoni Kimenez as director of football, you know, and signing all these players. And it's the era of getting agents in and directing the football, bringing sign and squad. He's completely an athlete Keegan who would want to sign his own players.

1:00:03So you're thinking this is never going to work. But for someone who's worked in football so long, he says in autobiography, I'm listening to Tony Kimenez, a man with whom Mike Ashley will fall out spectacularly and sue, you know, they have a massive legal battle over. And I think it's fair to say a man who perhaps overstages his abilities in football knowledge and in ability to bring off football deals. Keegan's listening to this chat, and he said, and I can get all these players in South America and goes, oh, I love what I heard. And I was really enthused. You're going, seriously? I mean, there are so many ball shitters in football. You've been in football for like 50 years. Do you really think he's going to bring in all these players in South America? Anyway, he quits over the fact that he says that they said we're signing this player because we need to give this agent a favor and Keegan wants him in the squad. And it just all falls apart very quickly at the start of the next season. And essentially, there's a very long and bitter legal dispute, which he finally wins and gets compensation for unfair dismissal.

1:01:08But it's a very constructive dismissal, isn't it? Constructive dismissal, yeah. It's a very sad ending to the extent that he could not go back to there. And he starts his autobiography with a scene where he's going back to present, I think, a leaving present, so one of the members of the staff, and he goes into scars. And he wears a comedy wig and sort of glasses and a flat-carry horse. And he's doing that post of his career in fairness. And the cause he gets to the gate on one of the stucco is, oh well, Keegan, how are you doing? And he gets all my goodness. But it is really sad. He is like the king in exile. Of course, the Walter, isn't he? Like, you know, he relations breakdown so badly that his great figure of the club can't be recognized. And I think the sad part was obviously the new regime, whatever we think of them were going to, the plans were to have him back at this season, so he could have his final farewell. And he did that speaking tour, didn't he, in April of May, where, and again, it's very Kevin Keegan,

1:02:12one of them's in King's Ling. It's not like London, Liverpool Manchester. I mean, one of them is in Newcastle, but one's in Northampton. It's quite a sort of second division in some ways, you know, and he's so unassuming, but he gives everybody... This is a guy dying of cancer. He gives everybody a photo, he gives everybody time, and the denouement is that final visit. I think it's a gate set in Newcastle where he does the show. And he basically said, I wanted to come say goodbye, because I didn't get a chance to say goodbye the first time. And that's incredibly moving because he has, by then, revealed he's got stage 4 cancer. And it's a proper goodbye. I mean, it is that goodbye. I mean, I think, at the time, people are thinking, oh yeah, saying goodbye for when you left the club. And we'll see you back there in September, but I think in his head, he must have known that this was it. And the organisers, the guys who organised that tour, I remember them saying on social media that night,

1:03:15that he was completely exhilarated. And he's tired, but completely exhilarated by being back with his people. I just noted in the obituary, I wrote for the Guardian, that it's a Keegan line. He said, football gave me everything in life, except for his happy ending. And it felt like the right sort of line to finish the piece on, because there is this kind of real light and joy. And he's a really blessed person, Kevin Keegan. And yet, he's far from perfect. And his life is not a fairy tale. It's like the fairy tale without the happy ending, isn't it? It's not a Disney story. But there are huge elements of Disney within it. And he is just such an enormous figure, not just of our childhoods, but of English football. Yeah, so let's leave it there with our memories of Kevin Keegan. Thank you Rob, thank you, producer Charlie, thank you every for listening. And we'll see you next week. Hi, it's Brook to Vard host of Naked Beauty, and I want to talk about how I upgrade my hosting experience.

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