Relationships and Their Role in Jealousy

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1:03Science is simplified and the news is hilariously twisted. The last show with David Cooper. I've heard of someone being labeled the jealous type. You know how jealous you are in a romantic relationship That amount of jealousy you have stays fixed for your life But new research suggests that your suspicious little brain might not just be you It might be about who you are dating Which I think opens up this question. Is jealousy a personality trait or is it just kind of like a relationship side effect? Well, I'm here with someone who's done research into this. She is a psychology professor at Grand Valley State University Your name is Makila Wilde Makila. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me So this narrative that we tell about ourselves some of us at least that we're just jealous people Are we giving ourselves too little credit there? Is it more about the circumstances that we're in? Well, it's interesting because I think that's what a that's even what the researchers have thought up until You know, we did some of this work and so

2:03It is partially that some people are higher in levels of jealousy than others But it is also the case that the relationship really matters So you might be particularly jealous in one relationship but not in another How can that happen? Is it the circumstances of the relationship that you're in that create you and your jealousy? Yeah, I mean, and we don't know all the fine particulars But the the guess there is that it has something to do with the context of the relationship the trust you have the communication you have All of those pieces that go into a relationship that make it particularly unique Now what are the circumstances that could be doing the heavy lifting here in a relationship? For example, what is one type of relationship that would cause someone to be super jealous and the other one not so much? Yeah, again, I don't I wouldn't say the work necessarily speaks to that but just based on sort of a clinical perspective I would say that sometimes those relationships where there is a lot of jealousy There isn't also a strong secure base and trust and so maybe

3:04You're coming into it and you've experienced certain things in prior relationships that you're bringing into that one Maybe there's something unique about your partner and the dynamic that you both have Maybe communication isn't very open and honest with the person Now does it stay stable throughout a relationship's course? Like if I'm with someone for 20 years the amount of jealousy kind of just stays the same Or will it shift and transform throughout the course of a relationship? I mean on average Yeah, so on average in our study we tracked We tracked participants for five years and and the ones that stayed in the same relationship over that five-year period Their average levels of jealousy didn't change over time and so If you kind of extrapolate that the prediction is is that it does stay relatively stable within the relationship There's kind of a big twist here It's that the same person can be way more jealous in one relationship and then be way less in another Re-surprise by this like someone who finds themselves super jealous

4:05Oh, who's my partner talking to who you texting and then like hop in a new relationship and that just all disappears Yeah, absolutely. I mean I was I was kind of surprised by it because again I think a lot of people make the assumption that if you're sort of a jealous person You're gonna stay a jealous person and you're gonna carry that into your future relationships But there is really something about that dynamic with the person that that matters And let's dig more into that dynamic. Is it communication style? Is it trust? Is it past drama supposed like you start dating someone and she is dating someone else at the same time And you find it out and then you're jealous. That's gonna last the whole relationship Yeah, absolutely so we did find some individual differences too So if you are if you tend to have higher levels of Experiencing negative emotions or attachment anxiety You tend to be a little higher in cognitive jealousy as well And so if those aspects are present within the relationship dynamic, they're gonna matter Clearly if there's any sort of trust issue or or there has been any infidelity that's been committed

5:10So if you know your partner has had an affair or even you yourself have had an affair that tends to Delinked with higher levels of jealousy as well And so there are unique things that might be happening in a particular relationship that might not be present in another one For people who don't speak psychology Like what is attachment anxiety? I think we all kind of know what it means at the surface level But what would that look like in an everyday relationship? Typically people with high levels of attachment anxiety are fearful that they're gonna be abandoned in their relationship And so they might engage in behaviors to kind of prevent that and so if they're fearing that abandonment That also indicates that you know, maybe they don't feel that trust as much or maybe you know There's aspects of trust that are missing and so that is what ends up being associated with that higher level of jealousy Now infidelity I know something we don't like to talk about but a bunch of people do it once you find out your partner has cheated Or even in the early days of your relationship when you aren't fully committed, but you kind of expected they wouldn't date anyone else

6:17Can that basically rewire your brain for the duration of the relationship to be on high alert? Well, it certainly creates challenges. It doesn't it doesn't I wouldn't necessarily say you're doomed if that happens I mean there's certainly lots of couples that I've worked with who have Infidelity and who have engaged in infidelity and they can work through that you can still build a strong foundation with that partner Just takes a little work now I'm also intrigued by those people who admit to cheating themselves are people who've admitted to infidelity's Do they end up being more jealous even if their partner hasn't given them a reason to be Yeah, so I mean you could come up with theories around that But some of that could be you know, if you've done it you are a little bit more susceptible to that again That trust in the relationship or understanding how quickly it can you can't stray or it can be broken Now I'm curious about how much modern dating just exacerbates jealousy like back in the day If you wanted to write your secret affair beloved you have to write like a letter and have it sent by horseback or something

7:20But now we've got DMs dating apps like constant digital contact with strangers There can be like a lot more triggers of jealousy today Are things worse for generally jealous people like with all this technology swirling around us? Well social media doesn't doesn't always help especially when those emotions are already there I would say the emotions are there and you're having the feelings Social media can kind of amplify those feelings because it is easy It's easy to look on social media and see who did my partner like who's who's you know who are they Interacting with and from that you can start drawing You know your brain can kind of run away with it and draw some parallels or Make some things up even if there's not actual fidelity infidelity happening now There's a naive takeaway and I just want underscore This is not my opinion, but the naive takeaway they hear about your research This sounds grim, but they think I'm unhappy with the level of jealousy in my relationship I should just exit it and start a new one

8:20What would you say to someone who's kind of kind of inferring that that that's like a little bit too simplistic a picture or something? Yeah, I mean it is it is the larger chunk of of what explains jealousy, right? Is the relationship but there are individual factors as well So even if you were to enter different relationships there still might be jealous feelings there as well And so it's not to say they're gonna completely go away Maybe they change right Maybe it's a little bit different with that new partner. Maybe it's worse Maybe it's worse. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe it's worse But I don't like the doom and gloom right that you know your your relationship is sort of doomed If there is jealousy present because certainly there are treatments that can help with it There are that you can get external help to kind of help couples get through that and build again that that secure base and that foundation of trust And sometimes people shy away from the hard work of either working on themselves or working on the relationship or maybe a bit of both

9:21I mean there are resources people can use if jealousy is a problem in their relationship other than just exiting it, right? Absolutely, I mean cognitive behavioral therapy is a whole branch of therapy that sort of designed to help with In thoughts and intrusive thoughts and so that can help but also couples therapy if it's really trust and communication issues that are Maybe at play here that are creating some of those dynamics then seeing a couples therapist can be helpful Well, Makila, I've enjoyed chatting about your research. Thank you so much for being on the show Yeah, thank you for having me Makila Wilde is a psychology professor at Grand Valley State University This episode is brought to you by athletic brewing company no matter how you do game day On the couch in the crowd or manning the snack table athletic brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles

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