Reform in crisis after Channel 4 sting

0:00Hello and welcome to Coffee How Shots, the Spacetace's Daily Politics Podcast. I'm Oscar Edmondson and we are broadcasting live from Reform Conference with James Hill and Noah Hoffman. Now, I'm sure lots of you will have read the headlines today. Reform senior members have resigned after a sting operation associated with Channel 4. James, quite a complex story. This one, can you take us through it? Yep, so this was best part of a year long investigation into the funding practices of the Reform UK party and ecosystem more broadly. As a result of that, this story which is dropped on the day that Nigel Farage making his big conference speech, Dan Jukes and James All have stepped away from their roles. It comes after the documentary which, air last night, appeared to suggest that there was some suggestion of money being used to get around UK donation laws. These laws suggest that only British citizens and British companies can donate and this

1:01on-camera suggested that this may have been potentially allegedly circumvented. So while the investigations are raging, it's problematic for a number of reasons. I think number one, the apparent baiting by Dr. James Aurel of Electrical Commission, suggesting that Electrical Commission was effectively toothless. That was suboptimal, I would say. And I would be very interested to see how the reggaed decided to come back on that next week. I think also, second of all, the issue was that it appeared to show what Reform has not been trying to portray the last five, six months. There was a lot of briefings around the time of May, June that this was going to be less five-half of the street and more sort of woken up men's club and they were going to reconnect with their roots. So to have them all apparently and top known restaurants talking in this way, I think is not what they want to convey in terms of the image of the party. And then finally, it's now involved a number of senior people. And I think that this morning, Nigel Farage has talked about various contractors working for the party. That does the disservice, I think, to the many years that Dan Jukes has been by Nigel Farage's

2:03side. I understand why Mr. Farage would say that, but I think that anyone who knows anything about Reform is aware of how big this story is and for something like this to break on Reform's big dare conference is very, very much a big blow for them. Yeah, I think last night was a very strong suggestion that James always going to fall on his sword. I think many people expected that Dan Jukes would have to go. Can you just set out how important Dan Jukes has been to this operation and why this is such a loss for Farage, maybe even personally? Yep, so I'm actually a book on Reform currently. And at the top of Reform, there is a close-knit team, which you could probably count on one hand, maybe two, of people who are really key to Nigel Farage. And Dan Jukes is the lieutenant for Nigel Farage. He's not describing to me as he wouldn't betray Nigel for a million dollars. He is very loyal. He's been working for Nigel Farage effectively for 11 years, talked every single day. There's lots to talk about. Almost like a sunlight relationship. And I think Nigel Farage as a leader, understandably, wants to offer a fry above the fray, not get involved in firing decisions, not get involved in some of the difficult business

3:05that comes running at a political party. Dan Jukes has been a key lieutenant in the battles at Nigel Farage, so I've had passed ten years or so. When he was in, you keep thin out, then in Brexit party, then out, then in Reform. So I think that this has been a massive blow to the top team of Reform. But I spoke to one of many states, and we've got to carry on. You know, they've just got to carry on and try and regain the initiative. But it's a problem for Reform because they want to use this conference as a springboard. And I said, once again, they're on the back foot with unhelpful headlines. And I think I was talking last night to a person who wants to stand as a reform, gathered at the next election. And they just said, I'm going to put my hand in the through hell. I'm going to take a salary cut. But essentially going to lose. And all of this is going on. It's just not what they needed. Now I can understand the argument some will make. It's a bubble story. These allegations may not be proven et cetera. Let's see what the legal process does. I understand all that. But I think at a time when last year, Reform's conference was seen as a massive step forward to the next step. At the moment, this one is risking looking like a step backward. Well, Noah, you've been out and about on the ground at Reform Conference,

4:07gauging the mood and the reaction of many Reform members, Reform curious. How has this one landed in the conference hall? Yeah. So if you talk about the documentary specifically, this will perhaps not come as a surprise to many people, but the members are not phased by it. They're really not. In fact, if anything, they're angered by it. They think it's another establishment, stitch-hark to use their parlance. A lot of people gave the sort of allegation that Channel 4 is a left wing outlet that it's always been out to get reform. And there was some speculation from some members that because there could be an early general election. This was all timed very strategically. Now, those were the views of the people at the conference. But there was some sort of difference in enthusiasm, I think, this year from last year. There was that there's a massive spark among the members. However, when I spoke to them about why they're here, what they want to talk about, the same answer I came up every time from every member,

5:09from across the country. There are people here from all over the country. It's not concentrated in one area. And that was that everything's going to the dogs and Nigel Frage is the only one. He can save us. You know, this isn't the country that my grandparents grew up in. This isn't the country that people went to war to fight for. And they don't believe Labour can sort of bring the country back in their views. They don't think the Tories can either. They really, really do believe that it's only Nigel Frage who can bring back this sort of old and golden version of Britain in their mind. And in the last few minutes, the electro commissioners confirmed it's talking to the police, Metropolitan Police about the allegations put forward in the Channel 4. A spokesman has just come out and given a statement saying, considering all relevant information in line with a regulatory remit, aware and touch with the met police. And then suggesting that information about any potential attempt to evade the controls and donations for police to consider. So again, this is not what they wanted. And of course, it's not going to cut through here or call for form conference. But it's an interesting thing isn't it? I remember being on this podcast in 2021, 2021, and 2021, Boris Johnson.

6:10And we all said, you know, scandals and matter is fine as fine. It doesn't matter until it suddenly does. And I think that that is a big, big moment. And one wonders today what the likes of Robert Jenry. So I'd rather than Danny Krueger or thinking they have thrown a lot in this time. Last year, they were all apart from Danny Krueger, all conservative members of parliament, standing conservative conference, people at Malcolm offered one wonders what they are thinking. And we shall see over the next week or so how tight that circle is at the top of reform because there are a lot of unhappy people right now. And I suspect that Dan Jupes, who in the course of political battles has made some enemies, he is going to have his opponents out there trying to try and now try and finish him off. And there are a lot of people who don't like how they're reformed leadership as styles, having a tight circle top. I suspect those guys are going to need to strap in because people will try and take them out as a result of this. This will be the excuse, the pretext, justification, whatever you want to call it. So I think it's a big moment for the people who define Nigel for our life in many ways over the past 10 years. Well, well, Nigel for our just of course speaking later now, what does he say now? Does he address this or does he plow ahead with what the message was originally going to be as usual?

7:14So the reform press release says that they're not going to comment on the issue any further and now that the police are involved, perhaps they just won't address it. But I would have thought before there was an announcement of a police investigation that perhaps Farage would dress this up as somewhat of a hit job from Channel 4, he has, you know, there's bad blood between them that James, I don't know if maybe they make the call that it's best to avoid it altogether. So this has been going a number of days. This documentary is now aired. There was a big battle beforehand. The timing is what's killed it here, I think. You know, the fact that it's come, you've got the 7 and 8, you know, on today's program talking about this, leading the bulletins, they had to do this. You know, they had to at least suspend, investigate, say something before the big speech at one o'clock today, the Beach Audembelle Della press conference, they had to do something and this is what they've chosen to do. We await to see if it's permanent. You know, the interesting thing about the reform multiverse, this is all levels. People leave and never come back. You know, David Bull for instance, I can see up on screen, he was someone who lost his brief in 2024, came back in 2025, is no longer chairman now.

8:17So people, you know, Quaint Hallers. Quaint Hallers now on the board. I mean, you know, it was that Churchill's dying about politics, you know, Roy can make all ones politics many times. So we'll see what happens. And I think someone like Dan Jukes has been indispensable for the last 10 years. James Orr, we'll see what happens. Obviously, very close to JD Vance. I mean, interested to see if the American press picked this up, given he's been described as the British Sherpa. I think it was quite interesting as well. There's a lot of people out there who've been tweeting stuff, members of the reform policy team publicly. You've been saying this is all, you know, the relevant, foreign operatives, etc. We'll see how that lands, but it is not what they need. And I suspect right now it's just trying to hold it all together, get through and try and regain the initiative as they so desperately need. Yeah, well, I'd be interesting to see how the senior members of reform respond, whether they close ranks, what the message is going to be. And you can find out, we've got an interview later today between Michael Gove and Danny Kruger. It was meant to be a user, but it's now Danny Kruger. And that's going to be live streamed on our YouTube channel at CoursePass3. But James, just a quick final question, because you've been speaking to the bell of the ball, which is Jordan Bardella. Jordan Bardella, yeah.

9:17Who many experts could take over in France. Key ally of Nigel Farage, what's he been saying? Well, he's been saying a trader of what's to come later, which is talking about why he thinks there's a need for a pact between the Royal National and the reform UK. The thing I was killed, the key to draw down on was, look, if this deal, you're going to announce later, talking about stopping the votes. It's so brilliant. Why wouldn't you agree with Burnham, Leo Prime Minister? It didn't really get much answers on that. He talked about Nigel Farage as a man. And it's interesting how much this goes back to reform the political economy of, you know, the strength of the will, the charismatic leader, rather than talking about other things like incentives and structures. But I also asked him about the EU with through all agreement. He was a little bit hesitant on that. I said, reform wants to renegotiate parts of that. How would you feel about as being French president, reform wants to strip foreign nationals of benefits, French nationals, et cetera, a bit hazy. I'm still going through the translation. But overall, this is where it was very much in the vein of what we're expecting today. And again, a reminder that Farage is seen as an inspiration by a lot of younger right wing figures coming up, the radical right. And Badal is only 331.

10:17I think the most interesting question asked was, Le Pen has been grooming you as a successor. Is it the time for Farage to do the same as some? And the party won, you know, another person coming through. Oh, when it's a different system, he was saying, you know, talking about the president, the prime minister, very different to what's happening here. But I think it'll be interesting to see how one party that kind of sheds its past with her father, the money depends on father obviously, and the anti-Semitic context, then when she was operating. And obviously, how the parties now grow and change. So the question is whether, you know, if Farage can do the same and make the form, as he often wants to say, does wants to do, make form the predominant party, the British right? Wonderful. Well, we're only halfway through. And this is an absolutely fascinating conference. And you can find out all that there is to know about it on the Spectators Coffee House blog and here are coffee ushorts. And also on our socials, Noah is going to be, Noah is going to be beadling around the conference floor, reporting direct from the ground. You should see that on your Twitter, Instagram, whatever feeds. Thank you so much, Noah. Thank you, James. And thank you for listening.