Recruiting Rewired

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2:10Welcome back, Sharon. Thank you to be here for having me. Last year at this time, we were in Spain together. Just a different part of Spain. And things have changed dramatically since then. Last year, you were giving a new mission. Product-wise, Winston. Winston was launched. You and Miguel made that happen. And then there's an acquisition. Yeah, that's, you know, I think part of, I think, to be honest, it's part of the impact of Winston. I think we made some really a lot of impact for our customers, also in the market, to get very well. And the acquisition is, you know, part of the outcome. So that's all the true success story, I think. Talk a little bit about the change. So there's got to be a transformation of talent within your organization going from

3:11the old-style applicant tracking system form-based model to a conversational model, like a Winston model, right? Because those building UI for one is not building conversational UI. They're two entirely different things. Talk a little bit about that. What kind of growing pains did you have? How did you overcome that? Because obviously, you met the goal, right? What happened? Where were the bumps? Yeah, I think, you know, you never ship AI-based product, and then, you know, that's magic. You always need to go and iterate, and you learn so fast. It's a product either, or also some of the intuition that we have about product, because it's very different, like it's we mentioned here. It's conversational. Like, what's how people react to AI? Their expectations is very different, so you need to keep iterate and improve all the time. So I can say, you know, we delivered that, we're done. We always aim higher to get it better as well.

4:11I think, to your point, how we're thinking about the interaction with the product is that, and you've heard me, I'm talking about about seamless personalization, right? And in order to create a truly unique experience for each and every individual, you need to also, I would say, expand the concept of UI. So we're talking a lot internally about adaptive or composable UI, so how you're taking your UI and breaking it, so you can basically serve it, you know, no one really wants to log into the ATS, you know? Oh, God, no. Yeah, nobody wants to log into all the different tabs that they have open on their browser, but yet they have to. How do you push past that? Because, again, your one system, they have all these other systems. What's the future look like for smart recruiters to be able to get away from multiple tabs? And literally just providing the user what they need in the time that they need it? It's a lot about tapping into the flow of work, like, and where users are.

5:14And so what I think you would see a lot in the system and what we're building toward is the ability to basically serve all those tacit users need to do wherever you are. So if you're spending more time, you know, using Teams or WhatsApp or SMS, this is where you should, you know, take your task in exactly and provide feedback about the candidate, you know, you don't need to log into the system, you can do that. Maybe with the voice, you know, using your WhatsApp. So our manager doesn't have to go into smart recruiters. Winston just shows up in Slack or WhatsApp or, is that where you're talking about? Yeah, exactly. And I think the other piece of it, there is two more aspects to it. One is the agent to agent, so I think in the future what you will see you're talking to many vendors in this space. Everyone are building the agent. So how all this swarm of agents can collaborate with one another? This is where we believe that true value will be unlocked. So this is one aspect of it.

6:16And I think in the future, what we call zero Y is that you will see more and more use cases where people interact with product without even screens. So they will use voice and body gestures. And how are you building product with these type of reality? So this is also top of mind. That's going to give you more time back because you're not building all these frameworks. And all this UI, literally you're just feeding new features into a conversational system. Exactly. Right, so that's going to be exciting. I mean, you know, maybe not for UI designers, but I mean, that's going to be exciting because the discussion is always about ship, ship, ship, ship, ship, right? And if a lot of that time is now taking out of the equation, and I'm sure there's some transformation that you're going to have going from forms to, you know, fully conversational, that's going to be exciting for you. What about the team? Because obviously the team, you have those UI people and you've got the people that are just

7:19used to, hey, this is, this is what we, it's always worked this way. Yeah. How is it, how's it been trying to actually pivot them out of that mindset into a tomorrow mindset? Yeah, I think and this is something that you hear, you're going to hear from, you know, old tech companies these days, how you upskill the people, you're changing the mindset. A lot of, I think in the space of product management, it's also changing. So for example, if it used to be very strict, like functions of engineers, product and design, there's kind of a mesh, and you can use, for example, cursor or other kind of tools to, for as product manager or a designer that don't know how to code, basically go and create code in the, in the product and use feedback make to create a whole UI. So I think there's a lot of upskilling that we are doing a lot with doing our team, but also in terms of mindset, we are bringing people that are experts for conversational design, for example, and there is a whole, you know, skill set around that, how you're making it really, really better, it's an art. So there is a lot of, I would say, need knowledge that you need to

8:24bring to the team, a lot of upskilling, and we always try to challenge, and what we find best, especially if you're working on AI based product design engine, many of our assumptions or expectations of the users is very different. So what we're trying to do is to ship and iterate, we have, really strong design partners for one, getting their feedback on every step that we're having, making sure that we're building based on, you know, the right expectation, meeting their needs. This is how you, you know, ship fast, I'm sure that we can talk to you about it. Oh yeah, well, it's, it's, it's ever hard to meet expectations of a user, right? Especially because there are so many different users, and they have different expectations. And for years, we've sent them into a black hole. They weren't happy about that, and we understand why they weren't happy. But then you're hearing about job seekers candidates who don't want to talk to AI. They don't want to talk to chatbots. So it's like the expectations, like you have to constantly

9:27meet the next expectation. And we're talking about conversational AI, how in the iterative process, how do you make it, even though it's not human, how do you make it more human? Is it literally just time or what, training, what, what's the secret sauce? It's a great question. I think it's, it's a few things. One philosophically, I would say, we're designing the product in a way that there is a few, the crucial decision point that we are keeping human in the loop. So not everything we believe need to be fully autonomous and energetic. We don't want to completely delegate a decision making into our agents. We truly believe that in order to keep the process human, you need to decide, very intentionally, in some decision points, where you need to have the human decide. And so I think this is one aspect of it. Second, there is different things, for example, how the product react when, you know, you're not, they're not getting the right

10:33answer and how it kind of correct and recover and how, you know, how the voice and tone sounds more human, how you understand better context, how you better understand the user goals. So there's a lot into it, you know, the really two, we call it, for you to feel like you have a partner, not chatting with a chatbot, right? Right. And so there is a lot of, I would say, intelligence coming to it, a lot of design. So yeah, it's not an easy task, I must say. Well, I feel like there's a double standard, though, because there are so many people that are out there now who have these AI assistants and we're even hearing about AI partners, boyfriends, girlfriend. So it's like the expectation is I need somebody there, but when I'm looking for a job, I got to have a human, to me, to some extent, it kind of feels overblown. I think that because of the black hole

11:35decades of going into the black hole, any type of connection right now is good, but I also believe what you're doing and what you're talking about is trying to make it as human, as possible. Now, that can't be easy when you're, I mean, a tone, even from the west coast of the US to the East, go, you live in New York, right? That's different. Those tones, just in that one country is very different, let alone going to the UK or Asia pack or something like that. So how do you start to build for those types of culture differences in tone and conversation? Yeah, it's a right question. So first, you need to provide a lot of flexibility. So we, for example, we have a product that we just delivered for early access called Winston Interview. It's a ability for Winston to send it to do the pre-screening interview for you using video or a call. And what you see there is that you

12:40can also tailor as a company, what kind of voice in tone it will have, what it will know about your company so we can answer the right, you know, answer the right questions in the right way. And so this is, this is part of it, right? How you really give control to the, to the also to the customer because they will have different nuances. They want to represent their brand in a different way. And I think what we also learn specifically also in the context of this product is that expectation shifts very quickly these days with the pace of AI. And I think in the future, in the past, I would say, if people were, you know, seeing chat, but I'm not talking to a chat, but I'm going to wait for calling to an agent, you know. But what we see is that a younger generation is really more open to using agents to receive, you know, different services. We also see that people are more inclined, inclined to use it when the quality improve and technology is just

13:41getting better. So if it feels more human to your point, then they're more open to use it. Okay, it's not that bad. It's actually saving me time. I don't need to wait for scheduling an interview with a recorder in two weeks from now. I can just do it now, right? Yeah. Um, so this is always painful. You're always painful. Um, there's huge bottlenecks. So why, why, you know, getting into those bottlenecks, if you can do it differently. So I think it's a matter of maturity, people expectations and openness, technology, different, um, you know, changing, you know, pretty fast. So I feel, I feel like we are getting there much faster than we thought we will. Let's talk about a couple of these products that I saw you talk about today. Yeah. And they were sexy, by the way. Now you think one is more sexy than I do. I'm on the, I'm in the other camp. We'll talk about, I'm glad that you're talking about, we'll talk about, we'll talk about mine second, because we're, you're, you're, you're the interviewee. So, a Genetic CRM. Yeah. This to me is exciting from the standpoint of so many companies had CRMs for so long,

14:46and literally much like the candidate database that they had their candidates in their applicant tracking system, two entirely different databases. They both literally just atrophied and died. They didn't do anything with them. They might have had some drip campaigns here and there, but generally no, right? So this to me, and you correct me if I'm wrong, this to me almost gives you somewhat of an auto pilot to set some rules and allow agents to, to go out and engage and make those people feel special as opposed to feel nothing at all, which is a very lonely place. So talk about that. Am I, am I, am I at least in the right lane? I agree. And I would say, what we're hearing these days is, and what's different, and I don't know, three years, you know, I go, is that companies these days are getting so many applications. Yeah. You know, it was a very different market few years ago. Also, talent teams are getting

15:46smaller. And so instead of just publishing and advertising and other job and getting more applications, they probably you have, you already have the applications that you need, you need your system, right? But you're missing the, the, the tool or the capability to unlock it, that locked the potential, like be able to search, you know, in a conversational way, as we mentioned, across all your talent pools, you know, just describe, just describe what you need right now, and be able to find it with, you know, a few seconds. And it sounds so intuitive, so needed, but yet like no one really doing it, not well. And we have our own CRM, so we are also part of the problem, right, today. And we thought, well, that's not good enough. This is not what the customer really need. Again, about expectation, where the market is heading, so instead of just, you know, throwing more advertisement kind of budget, let's, they probably have all the potential that they need, a lot of talent they have, so why not helping them to unlock it? So I think this is a big part of it. And then the candidate side, as you mentioned, be able to personalize

16:49at mid-day user where they are. If you're using TikTok, you're side-to-day, you know, you can run TikTok campaigns, if you, you know, more like a, you know, you know, you know, using WhatsApp or whatever you, wherever you are, you can, you know, basically tailor it to the boys in tone, the people expectations, their region. So it also creates a much more human personalized experience than this cold, you know, emails that people are usually getting. Yes. Dude, it turns out that Winston, smart recruiters first, AI hiring sidekick, is taking all the grunt work out of recruiters day. Things like candidate screening, scheduling, all the admin garbage, no one actually wants to touch, Winston can do it all. Man, you know I'm a fan of using new tech that takes the boring repetitive crap out of our recruiters day and allows them to have more time to connect with hiring managers and candidates. Yep. Winston's doing the heavy lifting while recruiters kick back and do the actual hiring

17:52stuff, you know, like talking to people. I really dig that smart recruiters is evolving out of a legacy ATS model and embracing cleaner processes using AI. With most ATS providers, it's like, hey, 2003 called and it wants its 30 minute application process back. No doubt. It sounds like Rebecca and the team are using Winston to push smart recruiters into the future while the ATS vendors are basically on an AOL dial-up modem with a dashboard. The smart recruiters Winston does the grind and the recruiters get the glory. For more information on superhuman hiring with Winston, visit smartrecruiters.com. That's smartrecruiters.com. Start using Winston today or I guess you can stick with Now we return you to our right-getter schedule program in progress. Being an HR pro means you're the company's backbone. You're the therapist, compliance cop,

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19:55QuickBooks Payroll today and keep your team feeling supported while you get to keep your sanity intact. Learn more at quickbooks.com slash workforce. That's quickbooks.com slash workforce. Does anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Yes, well, and as Rebecca has talked about consumption models and those types of things, being able to look at different tiers of cost and saying, look, the system is working for you, and what happens is we're going to engage these individuals who we think are qualified, but we're going to reach out and do a gap analysis and then ask them if they do meet their requirements, if they do, then we push them forward. If they are qualified, then you pay consumption wise. If we have to go outside the system, that's an entire that's obviously more money because there's more vendors that you have to actually engage with. That, to me, just sounds like the

20:58next evolution. You've already paid for most of the talent that's out there if you're a big enterprise company, at least the ones that you want. Taking that model even further, going to internal mobility and having a segment of your CRM that's literally dedicated to trying to get your people that you already have in place, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to keep somebody and move them to either laterally or up to another position. Are you guys working on doing that as well? So I think it's a terrific point and we see also companies that as many of them are downsizing or you need to hire for new people, new roles and you already to your point, you already have a really good talent that maybe you can leverage in a different way. And so internal mobility, we see it like the potential there and the interest is

22:02just increasing, I would say. And the big part of you, you saw our vision around integration. It's also to integrate much better with what we call a leading SAP. It's like an employee central, other parts of the talent management part of the system to be able to do just that, but just connecting the dots. So if you have the information from the rest of the sweet basically about your talent, what they're interested in, what their goals are, what their performance to views are, what's our inspiration. You would be able to target much better, you know, basically giving some recommendations saying, hey, you know, I know that you need this new role, there's two folks that are really good fit for you that are really working in other teams. And large enterprises usually they have this talent, but it's not something you can manage easily. It's like huge corporations, you know, so it's like a tons of blind spots to be able to use the Genetic CRM, as you mentioned, together with the right data. This is really unlock a lot of

23:02potential. Just the opportunity to be able to, hopefully, as you'd said, talent teams are smaller. They need effective processes in tech to be able to help them do their job more that faster. And with that consolidation, you're starting to see, you've been saying for years, many companies consolidate their talent acquisition team and their talent management team into just a talent organization where they're literally just focused on all of talent, which means obviously this whole infinity loop that a lens been talking about for about 10 years now actually goes into place and a system is designed to actually facilitate that whole infinity loop. And you showed today, on this very sexy video that I hope you will actually share with everybody because that was probably the best marketing. Was that you had alumni in there as well? So you can have your internal database,

24:03do campaigns for TikTok, internal database, right, of people that we've already paid for, and then also alumni and employees. It's like that type of connectivity to me is magical. So talk a little bit about that. How long do you see it taking for us to actually get there, especially in the connectivity of systems? Because a lot of TA systems aren't connected to talent management systems. So I would say about as I think it's not going to take long. So this is why we're also investing in integration. AI at the end is big. Did you hear that? It's not going to take long. And this is why we're also prioritizing some of the effort that we have on integration, because AI is as good as the data that is getting access to, right? And so if you get the right data, your AI is much more powerful and impactful. And so for us, we are just building the really strong integration to employee central, to onboarding. This is exactly where these data is

25:07actually lies. And so for us, strategically, in order to get to this point is exactly about it, to be able to get the right data, be able to tap to where users are in the system, in the right place, in the right line. So definitely it's on our roadmap. So not too far away. You heard that. You heard it here first. So we're going to go ahead. Since you've already mentioned it, my favorite was the integration piece. We both know that the biggest cost of change management for these huge systems is literally the integration. It's integration, right? It takes months, six months, 18 months, depending on how big the system is. You've got humans actually matching fields and doing all of these things. And that takes forever. What I saw, and you got me all excited, was an integration by the touch of a button. Now I'm sure there's more to do with it

26:12than that. But if I can go from 18 months, six months to six weeks, that saves a lot of money, saves a lot of time. And my cost for change goes on dramatically. And that gives you guys a market edge. So talk a little bit about how deep that actually goes. Obviously, applicant tracking system, that's where the start is. But where do you guys go with this type of technology? And when can we perspectively see it in operation? Yeah. So I would say, and we run discovery, and you can believe people reaction, like God's reaction when they're hearing the word migration. Oh, yeah. Right. Like they're like, okay, it's going to be so painful. Oh, data migration. Oh, yeah. Exactly. So this is the, I know. And so we ask ourselves, well, we can, you know, do and, you know, move data from one place to another. It will work. That's fine.

27:12But, you know, as already by now, we said, well, is it good enough? And the question, the answer is no, right? And we thought, well, how we can reimagine the way people integrate and migrate to new system and how we can leverage that to be a differentiator for us as you just mentioned. And so we are having like huge groups, a lot of people that are also experts in AI, thinking about how we can design it in a way that it will be productized, that we can also create like really powerful AI based tools to help to save a lot of time. So we talked about it briefly, but you mentioned, you know, filmmaking. This is a huge pain point. If you're a large enterprise, you have hundreds of costume fields, be able to map those to another, you know, filled in a different system, take sometimes weeks or months. So be able to have an agent is just, you know, doing that for you in a few seconds, you know, and providing you the visibility,

28:13this is, you know, changing the game, really, for companies. And so I think this is how we're thinking about how we can make it delightful, how we can actually use that for a moment in time, to actually also making sure they're integrating right. You can't believe how many customers that we speak with are integrating in the right in the wrong way. And then there are suffering years later. Oh, yeah. So how you can make it smarter. So you make sure that you're actually doing it, right? So after that, you have the best product experience. This is our interest as product organization, right? And the way we're thinking about it is also strategic, as you mentioned. So because if we're doing that right, we can expand it so you can use that for new customers that are coming to us from different, you know, sweet or different tools and want to go and obtain to use smart recruiters. We can do that for other modules within SAP, like we also own on morning, it's a whole new product. Also, they need to migrate from all their version to new versions. So why not expand it into it? So we're thinking about it in a way that how we can leverage

29:18its technology to really be a game changer for our customers. Is that the first phase? The first phase is, okay, we have all these SAP success factors, customers. We've got to migrate them over into smart recruiters, some aspects of their business over into smart recruiters. Is that phase one? We're going to eat our own dog food. We're going to build this ourselves. Is that phase one, and then you start pushing out to others later? Exactly. So we actually, the way we did it internally, we told customers, right? We were smart recruiters. If you're interested in, you know, being an early adopter for us, raise your hand. If you want to go and migrate in the next few months, we got, let's say, much more than men that we could ever... I'm sure. I'm sure, yeah. We were very surprised in a good way. So how we're doing that, we definitely have different programs. So we're using those tools to different. We have a design partner program. We have a larger,

30:22more broader program, but still very curated. So we can work closely with customers to understand, again, customer expectations. What's the experience like? What's the, are we meeting their needs? How we can make it better and iterate on that? So first, as you mentioned, there is so much demand and interest from SAP customer that are today using the recruiters, the success factors recruiting system. They want to move. How we can make them successful and do that in a few weeks versus, you know, a few years. So this is, you know, probably phase one. You know, we're going to iterate. We're going to make it amazing and then we can expand it to you more years cases. Well, and that's faster that you can do that. The more revenue you can push through because you don't have a bunch of companies that are waiting in line for integration or migration or just to get the ball rolling, right? So this is, I mean, to me, this has to be probably one of the most

31:22innovative and it's boring. I know it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's data, it's data migration, it's integration, it's boring, but it's the biggest problem that most companies have and why they don't change. I've had so many companies tell me that I would get off of this platform if it wouldn't take me 18 months. They're basically locked, right? Yeah. And they feel like they're, yeah, they're locked in a cage, right? Whatever database cage that is, do you see this being the new standard where it's like, look, systems should be more fluid. They should be easier to access. And then you'll see your competitors doing the same thing. They're going to have to to be able to match because if that is the biggest good market obstacle, if I am right, for many of them, they're going to follow your lead. Exactly. And I think, you know, many companies are choosing to use AI for the day-to-day tasks. But as you mentioned, if you're a large enterprise,

32:23adoption of new systems or moving between different systems, it's a huge pain point that today no one really targets, not really. And be able to remove this kind of blocker, really allows much more freedom for companies to choose the right solution for them, not being locked into something just because it's, you know, legacy. Someone chose it like 10 years ago. So this is how we're thinking about it. Well, and it's an unlock for either further downstream into SAP's business suite because obviously if you guys lock into this integration product, you can start to do, you know, obviously other point solutions into smart recruiters and SAP, so on and so forth. So it becomes almost like the, you know, you had the Apple iPhone, then you've got the AirPods. The AirPods could be its own company, the amount of money that it makes. I mean, that could actually be the unlock for a good market in many different areas of the

33:23business. Exactly. Exactly. And there is a, also separately, there is a huge power of being part of this suite. So if you make it easier to go and basically buy more modules, you can basically just become easier to be part of it and benefit from the suite like power, right? And this is part of also SAP's, to be honest, like strategy, like how you leverage the power of the suite because all those point solution creating all this fermentation, right? And all the problems we're talking about in recruiting and hiring these days. So how do you make, remove infriction? It's a lot about removing friction. So they can basically have better connectivity, have AI access all the data needs, really unlock the value. So it's about it, right? It's commercial time. Okay, face it. Recruitment marketing is broken. 70% of paid recruitment media goes wasted. 93% of candidates bounce off your job ads before they even apply for the job. And this is not

34:28a talent problem. No, it's not a data problem. It's a targeting and experience problem. The beauty of this is companies aren't trying to fix it. They're transforming it. Hell yeah. With up to 80% more high quality applicants, 40% reduction in spend and 50% less recruiter time spent. They're realizing what's possible with recruitment marketing that actually works. So how do they do it? Well, they chose Joveo. An AI led high performance recruitment marketing platform built to eliminate waste and drive more results. With Joveo's AI agents, your job ads reach the right candidates while your career site, conversational AI and application process drive better candidates and conversions. What about those qualified candidates you've already bought and paid for and they're wasting away in your ATS? Well, Joveo also reengages them. Want to learn more about Joveo? Cool. Just go to Joveo.com. That's J-O-V-E-O.com.

35:30It's show time. And if I don't have to spend money on 18 months of deloitte consulting, I can actually put that back into new tech earlier, which I mean, this is another unlock where it's like, look, you're going to be saving this much time, this much, this much money. Now you can really double down on building a stack quicker, an agentic stack. I just thought of that. And that's just brilliant. So when it comes to one of the things that Rebecca says is that pretty much for like recruiters, 80% of their job is admin. And I think what we've tried to do is we've tried to say, hey, here are the tools, use them. As opposed to just bake the tools in, much like interview scheduling, right? If somebody goes and they meet the requirements, then boom, they're automatically scheduled. Nobody has to touch them. It happens behind the scenes and it's

36:35magic. How do we get to that level in more of the tasks throughout without scaring the live and hell out of recruiters and hiring managers and so on and so forth? How do we get there? Is it literally just kind of piece by piece or do we have to force feed them the whole thing? So in my view, and I analyzed a lot of product that were successful in being more agentic because there is not many product like that across industries that you're looking at. There was a few that, you know, kind of, I would say, hacked something that, you know, making it work. And it's really more agentic, more autonomous. And what you could see, the way the data, they did a few things, well, one, they tap into the flow of work that don't force people to come to them, they're going to where they already are. Second, they build trust gradually. So you don't start with the most risky task that, you know, recruiters has and saying, you know what, I will take this decision

37:36from you. I'm just going to do it for you, right? This is not how you build trust. And you start from places like scheduling that maybe that the cost of error is not that bad. You're building this trust, you know, as you go and getting, getting there, I would to get it with a user and the user feel more comfortable to go and, and, and try new things because they see the value, they see the impact. It's measurable. So it's about a lot about building this trust with users, especially large enterprises. So this is how you're thinking about it. But also you need to have the broader vision about how it's all connected because we also don't want to deploy different assistance and different co-pilates without like the full vision of how it's all connected. So if you truly will get to like flows that are much more gendered, how it will look like, right? As you're getting more trust and how it's all connected as part of one holistic experience. So it that being said, the thoughts of all these agents out there, we're going to have agent

38:36to agent communication, obviously there's going to be some redundancies and whatnot. So in the orchestration, one of the words that hasn't come up yet, the orchestration of how all of these things come together is this going to be literally like a, a new job that a lot of companies are going to have to create is work orchestration. With all of these agents, you've got to know where the human fits in. Here's the process, here are the tasks, here are the agent at tasks, here are the human tasks. Are you guys looking at that? Are you seeing companies do that? Because to me, orchestration mapping isn't going to be just something where you do it up front and then you're done. It almost seems like it's going to be a constant. It's a really good point. So what we see is also within the talent team, that it becomes much more, there is more automation, more AI being added. And part of the, I would say, what their new job is being like is also to be much more

39:44the designer of the process of the experience and thinking how everything gets together, what we need to be connected, how we need to be connected. And part of it is exactly what you mentioned about the agent to agent interaction. And it's, I would say, for most of this, you know, in this industry, in age or tech, it's pretty early stages, but we do have, we launched our first agent to agents last year, in use case we have a few more that they are coming in age one. The first one was with one of our close partners, Bezier, around analytics. So you can ask Winston, hey, how many, you know, people and how many regions I have, you know, in this type of skills. Yeah. And you can, you know, call to Bezier agent, get the feedback there in a very conversational way to segment the data, follow up. It's really clearly use case. We're adding a few more. But the ability to really understand, look, how their orchestration would look like. And how also govern it in a way

40:47that will make my organization secure and safe, which, because agent to agent is also adding all this layer of complexity around security and access and solutions, who get the chance to work with which type of agent. So we have something called Winston Hub, AI Hub. And so you would be able to see her. They're basically all the agents that you have connected to your system. And you can very granularly control who get access to what. So this is part of it, right? And if you're thinking about it more or less, that's likely it's going to be big part of the trust and keeping your also organization safe as part of this own, this new things that are popping up. Yeah. It's, when we're talking about product and obviously there are, especially in this space, every space, tech companies are incredibly competitive. And they're, they're on the razor's edge in many, many some are, some are not. And so that word trust means a lot because there are a lot of lawsuits that are out there

41:53right now that are specific to agents enriching profiles, you know, age discrimination. When are we going to get to the points and where we have, you mentioned Vizier, and that's why that's why I'm thinking of it, where we are going to have on demand analytics and on demand auditing. So that we know every decision that's being made, it's being racked up. There's no reason why we should have to wait 30 days for that information, right? We should have a dashboard. We should be able to talk to Winston. We should be able to get reports not just on analytics, not just on, you know, what jobs doing well or what have you, but also the audit process. Where are we falling down? Where, you know, where, where are the hot spots that we need to go take care of? How long is it going to take for us to actually get to that point? I think it's a must have. Yeah. I think as companies are using more AI, also the expectation and with the new regulation is also, you know,

43:00getting higher and higher. We're using a third party to basically audit every iBase product. And so you can as a customer just get a report and every iBase product that you that you use been in the system and just see scoring on. So do I ask Winston for that and then it pulls back now or is that like, because it's a third party, we wanted to be objective. We could have built something in-house. We felt like, you know, it will make our customer much more, I would say, comfortable to use a third party. The piece is what they do. This is their expertise. It's not bias. And so you basically will get, you're getting like all these reports on a different cadence based on what you need. Sure. And you see all these different metrics on, you know, we're auditing for bias and hallucinations and discrimination and different type of categories there. Yeah. So you can see it there. Beyond that, and you mentioned that as well, the conversation that people have with your iBase product, you need to provide, you know, access to that. So for

44:03example, the Winston chat, the candidate chatbot that we have today, you can see all that from your admin experience, right? So like the transcripts of conversations and yeah, you need to have this transparency. You need to lead with transparency to get to trust. And I think this is, this is the big part of it. Does the candidate have that transparency too? Do they have access to those? So I think we're getting there. So there is more and more elements that we are looking to expose more to candidates. Sure. And I think it's a big part of not only leading with transparency, not only with higher intents, but also with candidates, but also how you're providing them, added value is part of it, right? They're using AI, they're given in some, in some way, the access to their data. So how you're given them also added value. So they feel good about also being participating in this process. And so for example, one thing that we're thinking about is that right now we're using skills based matching. We have a product called Winston Match, right? How you're exposing also to the candidate, they're match score. And how Winston

45:08thinking about them is, you know, what's their strengths, their weaknesses, which should work on. This is an amazing added value to candidate as well. So what, what do you do also to provide some added value and transparency to candidates? So this is some of the things we are working on. And that's a lot to work on. Yes, that's true. So I'm going to let you get back to it. Thanks for, thanks for joining me. Sure on. Thanks for having me here in wonderful, Mallorca. Great to be here. It is beautiful. And hopefully we'll do this again. Yeah, looking forward to it. Thank you. Take care. Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the chat and chase podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back valuable time you could have used to buy in nutritious meal and Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead.

46:12Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap, because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite western. You can't quit the meter. We out.