Ray McGovern : Is NATO Doomed?

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Undeclared wars are commonplace.

Gradually our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints

from the American people. Sadly we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force

by government. To develop a truly free society the issue of initiating force must be understood

and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government?

What if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best which governs least?

What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong?

What if it is better to perish fighting for freedom than to live as a slave?

What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now?

Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom.

Today is Monday April 6th, 2026. My dear friend Ray McGovern joins us now. Ray, a pleasure.

Thank you very much. I do want to ask you about NATO, the Kremlin, the effect that the Iranian war

may be having on their interactions with the United States. But before we get there,

what does Trump's profanity-laced weekend demand about the straight of hormones tell you about

the man's thinking? Well if further proof were needed the whole world knows now that

when Trump wakes up in the morning he's a little bit not all there. I used to say he was

a little bit sick but I think he's a lot sick right now. And that of course means that

everybody has to wonder what he's going to say now at 1 o'clock this afternoon when he makes his

nest presentation on what's going on in Iran. It's very unnerving and it's impossible to predict

what he'll say at 1 o'clock but I got a suggestion here. He's got two possible outs.

It's not going to work for him to say well those darn Iranians. We did destroy a hundred

percent of their air defense but they used the other ones. They used the rest of them to shoot down

that's not going to work but what might work in Trump's mind is those darn Catholics. That

that Bishop Broglio got me into an embryo here. He's told that Catholics is not a just war

and they should know that before they go into it. Well that's one thing. The other thing is

what's the other thing wrote down here? Yeah. Ruta is coming. The Mark Ruta, the head of NATO

and it will be possible for Trump to say well you know I haven't been really in much in touch with

the NATO allies. The Secretary General of NATO is coming on Wednesday. He's going to be here

four days. I think maybe I'll talk to them first this time and see about my next step. Now there's

no assurance that Trump will take those possible outs but that guesses as good as any other.

The best one probably is the Hill Redouble. I don't know how but you know he's got the 82nd

there. He's got the Marines there. My God. He's in desperate straits. There is no good no good way

out for him and that is very concerning. Your reference to Broglio and your play on words

in Broglio was a very flattering reference to my dear friend Archbishop Timothy Broglio himself

a military veteran and in charge of all the Catholic chaplains in the military who over the weekend

gave a very easy to understand a little bit emotional explanation of just war theory as the

church teaches it and it's been embodied in treaties and as it's being profoundly rejected by

the Trump administration. Thank you for mentioning Archbishop Broglio. Trump is probably desperate

for some achievement of which he has none which is why what you say about one o'clock this afternoon

Eastern is tantalizing. What can he possibly say that the tweet put aside the final language

is an intent to commit war crimes, isn't it? It is Judge it pains me to say this

but the first Gulf War was a war crime. We bummed the hell out of Iraqi infrastructure and it killed

500,000 youth under the age of five and we never get held accountable for that. That's one reason

why Trump can feel rather confident that he will never be held accountable for this. So you know

it's one way to say well it's a US tradition now but this is now this is Iran this is impossible

this is not Iraq four times the size of Iraq and much more powerful and much more determined and

able to resist so I don't know what you can do at one o'clock I've nothing very good at predicting.

Can you weigh in on what our friend and colleague Al-Stair Crook calls the intellectual war

between Iran and the United States, the battle for hearts and minds?

Well you know in terms of world opinion and even opinion in NATO and among our closest allies

all but Israel accepted I mean when you look at how Trump has proceeded here it's not only

mad it's a little bit great mad and crazy together right well you know the the the portion of

honor that exists in the world where that 98% approval of Iran's resilience and stand and the

2% well that's all Israel and they think that the well you know this is necessary has to happen

let's remember Iran is no threat to the United States never has been

Israel considers it a threat to them and so that's why we're in here that's the reason that

explains why there's no plan no no nothing that's what we it was a big mistake and the important

thing here is that there is no good way out for Trump so what we need to do is get out in the streets

and just try to prevent it from doing even more you know you mentioned the just war theory

well one is that you can only act this way in self-defense but the other one of the main one

is what we used to call the law of proportionality in other words the evil done cannot exceed the

evil that you're trying to work against I mean it makes good sense it never was honored since

Vietnam by our country but you know for finally your friend I didn't know he's a friend

Broglio Archbishop Broglio who's that as you say the top military chaplain for the Catholics

he's spoken out in a in a pretty clear way very clear way so this might might have some effect

after all and I hate to say this is the Catholics that put Trump in power yes yes here's a

Trump and Higgseth about how unstoppable we are and how the Iranians have no anti-aircraft even

we shut down for they shut down for helicopters in two jets number three Chris look in a certain

sense we've already won because we've knocked out their navy we've knocked out their air force and

we knocked out all of their communications their telecommunications and very importantly

we knocked out their anti-aircraft apparatus we are systematically dismantling the regime's

ability to threaten America or project power outside of their borders they have no anti-aircraft

equipment their radar is 100 percent annihilated we are unstoppable as a military force

and the country has been eviscerated and essentially is really no longer a threat the upcoming

days will be decisive Iran knows that and there's almost nothing they can militarily do about it

if i wonder why their advisors don't warn them against these outlandish and anti-factual

anti-factual statements they've fired all the advisors that told them that I cite the head of the

army army chief of staff who is supposedly fired well I'm sure pretty sure that he quit because

he said look you know there's not to give reply there's not to question why there's but to do

or die into the valley of death into the street of Hormuz goes my 82nd and we're no not so fast

I quit I think that's the way that worked and you know it's really amazing not only are the

Uranians resilient but some of their commentators have said as I said you know oh well they did the

US did destroy a hundred percent of our anti-crafting so we shot them we use the other ones they

destroy a hundred percent we use the other ones what was left the remainder haha we got them

hello that they can keep a sense of humor even in their non-public channels is a mark in some

strange way of their resilience here's Trump's only friend as a fellow head of state with a syrupy

gooey wet kiss if you will Chris number eight president Trump Donald my dear friend once again

your decisive leadership brought another great victory to America I salute you we all do

congratulations president Trump all as well as rejoice in the incredible rescue of a brave American

pilot by America's don'tless warriors as a nation that repeatedly carried out daring rescue

operations and as someone who was wounded in such a mission and lost a brother in the integrity

rescue Israelis and I we know what a bold decision you took oh judge it's hard to watch that

isn't it you know this is save Netanyahu was caught by a microphone that was left on as a video

was playing in the home of a of a fan back 25 years ago what he said there in answer to a question

won't we be isolated in the whole world if we proceed as we are against the Palestinian he said

no no not to worry the Americans will always support us I know that it's inconceivable the Americans

are always willing to bend in our direction now he said that because he thought the mic and the

and the tell the video was off you could find that on YouTube so this is the same guy

and now he's flattering Trump for having rescued somebody whereas we know the real story with Larry

and and Alistair already commenting on what just happened study Friday night well I don't think

we're going to get the real story at one o'clock because the real story is not a happy one for

them whether this rescue doing air quotes against rescue this rescue effort to capture a kernel

a kernel the senior person of all the hundreds that were there was a subterfuge to try and

seize a mirror a Iranian enriched uranium in which case it was a failure and it showed the

Iranians what the Americans can try to do so I don't really know where this is going to go let's

switch gears if we can do you think US membership in NATO was on the table when the Russians and the

Americans negotiate I think it's not on that table but it's clear clearly on the Western alliance

table in other words the Russians are kind of beneficiary of this malfeasance and misfeasance

NATO is nothing without the United States let's face it you know when Stalin

Stalin was told that the Pope was it was really against what he was doing he said well how many

divisions does the Pope have well it's same question how many divisions does Western Europe without

the United States have almost none so so that's the reality they depend on the United

States now Trump is threatened to leave NATO well he has pretty much already I'm like he's already

told him look you great you want to do you great fine as long as you buy our weapons now the last

NATO summit this same fellow Mark Rute who's the secretary general who's coming to Washington

for 48 now starting on Wednesday he said oh daddy is here when Trump arrived a little

oh daddy daddy is here well let me just remind people that there's an American expression

deadbeat daddy and for those who are being translated for a deadbeat means a daddy who doesn't

pay alimony he doesn't even pay child support for his children and that's this deadbeat daddy

and the NATO people are trying to wonder will this article 15 of the NATO

charter does that apply anymore for example I'm I'm a Estonian if I do a little dust up with the

people in Leningrad or Kaliningrad will the U.S. come and defend me no way can they believe that

the U.S. will come and defend them so as I said after the last summit the next one's supposed

to be a Tirana Albania of all places I don't think it's going to happen I think NATO is finished

for all for good reason because of the things that Trump has done but last thing which is most

important that's a good thing why because the threat from Russia has been exaggerated has been

manufactured there is not one centilla of evidence except for what Joe Biden said in his last

denoggeral that the Russians want to take over the rest of Ukraine much less Poland or the

Esposite state so when the West Europeans the East Europeans all realized oh my god we've been fed

a bill of goods we don't have to spend so much on the fence we could tend to our social needs as

we did in the past then it's over for NATO and good riddance here is the secretary of state of

the United States it was also the president's national security adviser last week on why we are

in NATO I've been one of the strongest defenders of NATO during my time as the United States senator

because I found great value in it and it wasn't just about defending Europe I said it also allowed

us to have military bases in Europe that allowed us to project power into different parts of the

world when our national security was threatened if now we have reached a point where the NATO

alliance means that we can't use those bases that in fact that we can no longer use those

bases to defend America's interests the NATO is a one way street the NATO is simply about us having

troops in Europe to defend Europe but when we need their help not their help we're not asking

them to conduct airstrikes when we need them to allow us to use their military bases their answer

is no then then why are we in NATO is upset that the Italian prime minister would not allow any

of the NATO bases there are five of them in Italy to be used as launching spots for the war

in Iran Spain won't allow any flyovers they're wanted to other countries that have forget which

want to allow flyovers as well your thoughts on this right there you go I mean it's quite a 180

degree turn for Rubio to be criticizing NATO as he has supported it suddenly didn't pass but the

big main beef is not only the denial of permission to use NATO military bases but the notion that these

Europeans there's such cowards chumps word that they won't take their navies and open up that

that's straight up for moves what kind of coward they have a stake in this they need that we don't

need they are so what's the what about your wimps humankind you know the alliance is finished

and as I say that will be looked by most of people is oh my god what the Russians are going to

have free reign now no the Russians have no idea they have no real motivation to go and take

Poland or the rest even the rest of Ukraine and that's another story judge because the ground

is drying now in Ukraine the Russians are ready to mount a sizable offensive offensive at their

decided to do that it'll be over in Ukraine and largely because not even the U.S. has the

weapons to sell to the Europeans to give to the Ukrainians to defend themselves it's over in

Ukraine I think you're right but here's somebody who's been wrong all along and he was wrong

two days ago on national television general Patreus Chris cut number five well ink what's

remarkable is that Russia no longer has the upper hand Russia heavily out numbers Ukraine

it out guns Ukraine it has an economy ten or twelve times the size of Ukraine's and yet the

Ukrainian forces right now are stopping the Russians cold on the front lines yes they're still

glide bombs are still drones every night and in fact there were 400 drones just today with

dozens of missiles but on the front lines which is all important the Russians have actually

achieved less than the Ukrainians have in the last two weeks wow it's ludicrous I mean this guy

as you said he's been wrong on every measure for 20 years now it doesn't matter that the Russians

are proceeding gingerly because they want to save their own people and because they don't have

to go any faster what matters is that they have the capability to deny reinforcement to the Ukrainians

they have the upper hand everybody in their right mind but Patreus who is probably in his right

mind unlike Trump but who has this thing to sell to people after all the the financial outfit

he works for or leads is is profiteering on this war to a fairly well so you know

Patreus I've never had much much respect for and it's hard to lose even the modicum of respect

that I did have but that does it for me um Chris just discovered a a quote from the Iranian

foreign minister Chris do we have a centa but he want me to read it oh so the Iranian foreign

minister in response Arachi who speaks perfect English who in response to the president's

profanity laden tweet said bridges can be rebuilt but the opportunity to discipline America

will not come again and Trump thinks that with profanity he can bend that will

well the profanity is a mark of a person who's lost it let's face it I got up at eight o'clock

in the morning and I said said what he wrote what he usually says okay so when people look at that

they have to realize they're dealing with a person who's lost it and that of course is the

real challenge that's why the pakistanis and the Saudis the Chinese and even the Russians are

trying mightily to get this thing controlled and to find some sort of way to open the street

so that there's no worldwide depression there already is a worldwide recession

thank you very much great analysis my dear friend on all of these topics we'll look forward to

seeing you on friday with our buddy larry johnson in the round table all the best right have a great

week most welcome thank you coming up later today at eleven thirty this morning on all of this

professor Jeffrey sacks and at three this afternoon with his unique insight what went right what

went wrong that we don't know about over the weekend in iran scott ridder jesse napalatana for judging

you