Queer Identity and Labels With Peyton Dix

Hey all, welcome back to Made It Out.

Today I am here with writer,

podcaster, Peyton Dix.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Who wants to address the pimple pack?

Yeah.

We have something on the record.

Yeah.

Because I am having hormonal acne.

Okay.

Sometimes people are 31 and have hormonal acne.

Mm-hmm.

I swear I pay my taxes.

I swear I'm going to go, but I'm wearing a pimple patch

at the moment because it's getting bad.

So.

The first thing she walked in and said,

and I said, actually, wait, no, you're at a really safe space

because I am learning about win-burn.

Win-burn.

Win-burn.

Win-burn.

I didn't know that you could chap your face.

Yeah.

So I basically have chapped lips all over my face right now.

I am going to beat your ass.

Beat my fucking ass.

But that's how you have to come into New York to be like.

Oh, I know.

And I have.

And I know.

And more than one way.

I have come.

And I am here.

Oh, welcome.

Welcome.

Thank you.

This is her coming out.

But we're here and we're safe and there's no wind.

Yes, it's just one pimple patch.

I just want to get that clear before we continue on.

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Thank you so much.

I'm so excited to meet you.

I'm so excited to be friends.

We had a key, like our little pre-gotten...

We were...

King out.

I was like, what are we talking about?

I was like, okay, you told us text about the episode.

Let's go to drinks.

Which is the best feeling.

Exactly.

I want to talk about kind of like your queer journey.

How it brought you into...

You kind of are like a commentator on queer culture.

Well.

That's what they call me.

Which I admire because I am not one of those people

who keeps up on that very well.

So I always love to talk to people like you

because you've got all the tea.

So your brain is broken.

Tell me about that.

Yeah.

And I will.

Yeah.

Well, I guess I kind of go hand in hand.

My coming out journey was completely regular.

In fact, arguably boring, which sucks for a writer

because it's like, I want plot.

I want drama.

I want storyline.

My parents couldn't care less.

My dad, I could do not.

We're in the car.

I come out and he was like, okay.

So do you need anything?

Do you want like a gay to raid?

He's like, okay.

He's just like a coach.

Like he's just like a guy being a dude.

And like, I'm from LA.

Okay.

And he lives in like Hollywood-ish area,

Melrose area.

So everyone's gay around him.

Sure.

So like me being gay was just like,

well, that's a day that ends in why.

Yeah.

I also spent a lot of my youth like dry-humping everyone.

And I went to all-girls school.

So no one was surprised.

Can you tell me more about you?

Well, well, fun bag.

I had a boyfriend early.

Okay.

Shout out to him.

He gave me this kind of like street cred,

if you will, for my private all-girls school,

to be like, oh, I have a boyfriend,

so I know how to kiss.

And like, yeah.

I'll show you.

If you-

Were you a horny kid?

Or so?

I'm a horny adult.

Yeah.

Horny teen, horny kid.

Yeah.

I put not horny in like a fun, like,

smuddy slutty way.

Horny in like a, like they're like yearning.

Like I was always like into the idea of being horny

sometimes more than actually being a horny.

What's that?

Just like it seems like exciting.

Like I watched a lot of the end.

So a lot of like the grassy-

Oh, of course.

Do you watch Instant Star?

No.

Here we go.

What?

Shout out to Canada.

Shout out to Canada, man.

The Instant Star is this Canadian show

that was like, it was just really crazy.

South of nowhere?

Was that your teen lady?

Oh, okay, yeah.

South of Norway was lesbian at least.

Yes.

Like those, it's like I couldn't think about being horny

or queer without it being like drama.

There had to be like stakes to it in some way.

Cause I just like consumed so much

media I shouldn't have been consuming at a certain age.

Sure.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So it was like horny with a twist.

Okay.

I was just, I was into this.

I'm like, are you horny?

I was a horny fucking kid.

I love you just like humming.

What was your team?

Yeah, okay.

So I actually have to tell you this

because it's been a topic of conversation.

Okay.

I'm currently living in a brownstone

on the ground floor apartment

with my childhood best friend.

So we've known each other since we were two.

Yeah.

And she has the memory that I am like,

I don't like that.

Yeah.

I don't like them to remember.

Yeah.

It's like, she remembers everything.

And like, she'll tell stories about me.

We're like, we would be sitting in this circle

with all the neighborhood kids.

And like, she remembers I was wearing this

like purple dress, this tank top dress.

And it like slipped and my, my boob was out.

And she was like, Mal, pull up your sleeve

and I was like, no, it's okay.

Everybody can see.

Like, like I was slutty.

Love.

I was the neighbor most slut.

Yeah.

But it was like, but I don't know.

I feel like now, the same.

I was just like really comfortable being naked.

It felt to me like performance art,

not necessarily like asking for like,

not what are you going to do about this, too.

You know what I mean?

Me as a team.

No, you just want to see.

Yeah.

I was just like, wow.

And now what?

Like, I have never felt so seen.

Oh my god.

It's just, it's just being like, I'm a performer.

Yeah.

Whatever.

Like, let's see what happens.

So I don't know.

I don't know.

I think that as a kid, I just always felt,

and like shout out to my parents, especially my mom,

I will say like, always super comfortable exploring

who I am and who I wanted to be,

and like how much I've changed in so many ways.

And like, what did particular did your mom do

that you feel like was maybe different?

I think she just said like yes and to anything I wanted to do.

So I, like, name a sport.

I played it.

Like, name and activity.

I was really, I saw one ice skating movie.

It was with the one, RIP Michelle Tractenberg,

the like original heated rivalry.

You know the one, it's um,

ice princess.

I think we're sorry.

I never saw it.

Okay.

Okay.

Sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

But I was like, I'm going to, I want to take ice cream lessons.

Like this is going to be my whole thing, my whole personality.

Yep.

I, one week, I go back to my mom, I'm like, it's too cold.

I'll just fuck out there.

And she was like, well, I don't get a refund.

And I, you're going to skate, you're going to skate a little on.

And I'm a pretty good ice cream house.

Really?

Well, I had to finish like the month of lessons.

Yeah.

But I think she just was always, she didn't have a lot of room

to like playing girl.

She grew up really poor.

She grew up like, and like a kind of constrained household

in terms of like her ability to express herself or even like find out

what she likes and who she is.

Like that came later in her life.

And I think it kind of came up like alongside my development of figuring out who I am.

So we kind of have this really awesome relationship where we got to like parallel play

and like figure out what we liked and how we went to express ourselves together.

So she was always really encouraging of me.

I think that's part of like my internet presence now in part of like the way

I am with my friends, the way I show up in the world I think is just like

really curious and really playful.

And I think like that is also rooted in like my queerness is like

I don't know, getting to like express myself and know that it's safe too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, exactly.

No.

And episode over we're going to watch my script.

Yeah.

And get drunk.

And we're going to put on a hood so we don't get fucking windrash or whatever.

I love us.

I love us here.

It's all day.

Oh my god.

Okay.

So tell me about when you started to realize that you might be a little

okay.

It's probably like Roxanne and Goofy movie.

That kind of thing.

You are the second person that has referenced Goofy movie in like the last week.

Yeah.

And it's making me want to go watch it.

You've got homework to do.

Yeah.

We've got.

She's studying the acting.

Yeah.

Good thing it's cold outside.

Catching up all these like early odds Disney productions.

But the person who was telling me about Goofy movie was telling me that it's

very rooted in black culture.

Absolutely.

Okay.

All the Goofy characters black as hell.

Max black.

Goofy?

That's my father.

Goofy is from Philly.

That's what we need to know.

Goofy is from Philly.

I'm taking him anywhere.

That is true.

But Goofy movie.

Yeah.

Formative.

Roxanne.

How does hell.

Which is ironic because I feel like she's really thin and that's not normally like what I'm

what I go for.

Interesting.

Yeah.

You're like how maybe I represent myself.

Wait.

Can we stop there for a minute?

Yeah.

It's the whole thing.

It's the whole thing.

It's the whole thing.

We can do whatever we want.

We can do whatever we want.

It's literally your podcast.

Wow.

Wow.

The power.

I have a very similar experience.

Yeah.

Like my when I look back like my queer fixations are like to penga from Boy Meets World.

Oh, love.

Or page from like to penga.

No.

Wait.

Page from the grass.

Oh, you like a bully.

We can talk about that later too.

But you have that you have that essence of both.

But then I look like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

But I'm like, okay, wait.

What is that?

Yeah.

Because Manny Santos.

I said, so it's nice to see yourself reflected in media.

I was like, that is me as a hell.

Uh, so you got being horny.

I see what you're saying.

Yeah.

You're like, there's something akin or there's something like.

I think so.

I think in early like brain development time.

Yeah.

I think it was more of like understanding queerness by what I wanted to emulate.

Or look like or feel.

And then once, you know, maybe like my brain developed.

Or once I like started dating women full time.

Um, I was like, oh, now this is like what I look for in other people.

Or what I like or.

Yes.

And it's so different.

Obviously.

Then Roxanne.

It's so bad.

Forever about it.

But like different.

Right.

Okay.

Interesting.

Because I think about that a lot.

And I always wonder like, what, what is that?

Why is that?

I would never go for a meal to penga walks in.

I'm like, so now what?

It's just to penga.

I hope she's doing well.

Yeah.

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I kind of technically came out to my mom.

I forgot my mom was moving, cleaned out her old house

and found this tiny little note that was folded up again.

It was folded up the first page, said,

hi, mom, dot, dot, dot, dot.

You open it up and said, I have something to tell you.

You open it up and say, drop, drama.

It's a damn one of these calls.

It's so thick!

Yeah!

Pick a color, pick a number.

And it, like, fold by fold was like,

I think I like girls, like I also like boys,

but I think I like girls and I want to tell you

and don't talk to me until I'm ready.

And she found it, this is like a couple of years ago,

I've been out for a while.

And she calls me, he's like, are you ready?

It's like, I'm like living with my girlfriend at the time.

I was like, girl, yeah, I'm actually, no, I'm not.

Yeah, actually.

Yeah, I think that came from, there was a girl

that I was doing a play with in middle school

who like taught me what bisexual was,

and we would like hold hands backstage.

And like, I remember a fire running through my entire

fucking body just being like, this feels different, you know?

So probably like middle school and then I came out formally,

like, toward the end of college.

OK, so like, how did that kind of go into your internet presence?

I don't want to sound too, I don't know, annoying,

or like, 10 or 3 about this, but yeah.

I just feel like so much of my personality

is rooted in queerness, like in self-expression,

like being loud, being like unafraid,

being like, really open-minded.

I think like, I worked in queer media

right out of college, basically.

I had like done internships at like V Magazine and paper

and worked, ended up full-time at paper,

was head of social there for a minute.

And it didn't feel like, I'm here with a mission

to tell queer stories.

Like, it just felt like, oh, these are my interests.

They, some of them happened to be really fucking gay.

And like, something that I really love doing,

like I had worked at in self-magazine,

I was at a global doctor's social and mathematics

and was in these spaces that weren't necessarily

even after paper, like, explicitly queer TM

or only for queer people or queer eyes.

But it felt really cool to be like, when I take up space,

I'm naturally going to be including queer, mostly POC,

and mostly, like, maybe like, trans at the center,

you know, black at the center, voices

that come with just being who I am.

Yeah, it's like a lot of things I care about.

Yeah, for sure.

My affinity for like, mess, my interest in drama,

my interest in like, celebrity culture in that,

like, it falls under this umbrella of queerness.

And like, that is something that I feel like

I've brought into my career as like, the way that I,

like, I have this running bit about, like, who is a,

like, bi-couple or who is a lesbian couple,

even if they're like, classically heteronormative.

You're right.

Some people don't really mad about that.

And I'm like, we have bigger fish to fry.

Yeah, absolutely.

Also, that's a fucking compliment.

Yeah, shut the hell up.

Like, have you seen this one photo of Justin Bieber

walking in a tank top folded up?

It looks like a binder.

I said, oh, no.

See, now my trans mask, hold on.

I said, that's mine, right there.

All right.

And swiping hard right on every form of Justin Bieber.

But like, that running bit, I feel like is something

that is fun to put sometimes like, queer culture

on like, heteronormative.

Yes.

Like, honestly, some straight people act gay as fuck.

Like, the drama of J-Lo and Ben getting back together

and breaking up over and over again,

queer is the best thing ever.

Hey, is that lesbian as well?

Let's be an Xbox.

Let's be an Xbox.

And how much time do you have?

Because you can really get into that.

Yeah, I just, I felt like it was a natural,

like, I don't know, I've always been a writer.

I've always loved storytelling like a bunch of different forms.

Sometimes that was like creative direction.

And sometimes that was, you know, like, personal essay work.

And it's looked a bunch of different ways.

But I don't know, just like my blackness,

my queerness is impossible to remove

from the things that I touch.

It's interesting because I think people look at queerness

as like a sexuality, and that's it.

But it's actually like a politic in a way of life.

Absolutely.

And it is interesting what you're saying.

Sometimes that's what leads you to your queerness.

It's just this like outspokenness or this like,

oh, I'm a little different.

Or I am way more open-minded than, you know,

anyone around me.

That's kind of how it felt growing up in Texas.

It's like everybody was so sheltered.

Everybody was so close.

Mine did.

And here I am being like, this doesn't fucking make sense.

Like why do you, what is going on?

And it's kind of just like a way of life.

And a way of thinking.

My, I should bearing lead.

And what my grandmother is like huge dyke.

Yeah.

I am obsessed.

So there's privilege in the room.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, I have a lesbian grandmother.

Okay.

So you also grew up around like feminism and.

Yes.

For sure.

And I think like, it's complicated when we're talking

about like a poverty line too and like classism.

And so I know that my mom has a very different relationship

with my grandmother than I got to have.

Is it her mom?

Yeah.

Interesting.

And now it happened like later in her life.

Yeah.

Even though I was talking to her and she was like, oh, she was

like, I need to do that by shit.

She was like, no, I never thought I was by.

She was like, I'm grandma's gay guy.

I'm old school guy.

Yeah.

Straight up.

I was just handling business.

Okay.

I was just doing things I needed to do.

And I respect.

And I get that.

But yeah, she was part of the Black Panther Party.

She was an activist.

She was someone who was like very involved.

Up into her 70s, she was working at a halfway house.

She was working in a nursing home like she's like the coolest

woman with so many complexities.

Of course, I know.

And the fact that she's partnered now,

shout out to CC, we love her.

And seeing her visibly like older, black as hell,

black as fuck and queer is like the most radical thing

I think I get to experience.

Wow.

It's really, I think it like helped me pave my own way

of being just as loud about being gay.

If not louder because she didn't get to come out

until I think like maybe her 60s.

Wow.

No, 50s, yeah, maybe 50s and she's in her 70s now.

And that like you have like a special sort of passion for it.

Yeah, yeah.

For being gay.

Or for like, I was like, yes, yeah, all of it.

All of it.

And that felt like when I talked to her about her

coming out journey.

It's like yes, there's a lot of trauma rooted around it,

but also it feels really like intrinsically tied

to like being a caregiver and like community building.

Like one of the kids she used to help watch.

His mom was a lesbian and a sex worker

and had a really hard time and like building community

looks like being like let me protect my other queer anyone.

But yeah, my other queer black existors that I can.

And I met her recently and I didn't know her as a kid

and it felt so cool to be like, look at this like

intergenerational like protection and world building

that's happening that I get to be a benefit

like a beneficiary.

Thank you from and that feels like, oh, I want to

have that.

I want to keep creating that like I love my friend group.

I love the group chats.

I love a key.

But like, it's like, oh, it's so much bigger than that.

Like, queerness is like so much more expansive

than just like, you know, who we go out with

and how we dress and whatever.

And like so beautiful that that's what now you're creating

online.

Or through all of your work.

Yeah, I mean, it's really, I mean, it's like my grandma.

There's like a black Panther and I'm like,

JLo and Ben, like, yeah, I don't know.

It's just as meaningful in, you know, I mean,

and it's my Peyton's version of that.

Exactly.

We all do it in a different way.

That's just so radical.

This is what we do, you know?

Yes, you know, it is interesting like when you get

into these spaces, you go to these like, you know,

like last year, I got to attend the DNC and you know,

whatever.

In a space like that, you look at what I do

and you're kind of like, oh, like is it as relevant?

It's like, but it is, what is it?

But sometimes what is a democratic party?

You know, you got it so fair, you're doing more work.

You, yes, like, no, but yeah, I think it's so,

it's so relative.

And I actually sometimes get really insecure about that,

maybe you have like, oh, it's like,

is this not real TM work?

But like virtual and IRL community building

and like queer relationships, platonic romantic,

anything are truly like acts of resistance.

And like it really is so radical to be like,

I, like last night, I went to the screening

of a pillion, the new like, Dom movie

with Alexander Skarsgard.

Ooh, okay.

It's like a sea of like gay men and leather and me

and I'm like, I like, I'm like, this is it.

Like it's so like, this didn't, I mean,

this definitely existed before.

Obviously, of course, they're like leather and kink spaces,

but I just was so happy to be in community.

Even if it wasn't necessary, like my, like gay guy,

Dom community, I'm always happy to be there though.

Yes, yes, yes.

People like her is like, happy to wait to see.

Yes, yes, yes.

Let me know these knocks.

My lesbian duty.

But yeah, I just was like, it's actually so vital.

And like, what are we without it?

And I think like we're learning that

unfortunately more than ever, like given this, you know,

political landscape.

Yeah, and I think like those are the spaces

where things happen.

Yeah.

Because it's like, you know, conversations

that start as just like this, then we offline

and we're like, oh, how can we work together?

How can we do something together, you know?

And I think that's what I'm learning

is even just like putting your feelers out there

as like going for coffee, being a friend to someone

it like years down the line, it shows up

in ways that you would never expect

and like can really have a huge change on the world.

And I, I love it.

Tell me, I want to talk.

We're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, oh my God.

Oh my God, look at my sweatshirt.

It says, buy weed from women.

Like, and I, and I knew I could trust you.

No, no, no, no.

Oh yeah, sorry, I keep it, I know you're fine.

Okay, I'm loving it.

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Yeah, okay, I want to hear.

You sent me some talking points about things

that you were just kind of texting.

I had lots of wine and those of us like,

let me know what this hits.

I love it.

You were making a comment about labels.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pay, you just sent me some things.

It's just like, here's what's on the top of my mind.

Like this big lawn.

No, it's a hollow duct.

Okay, I'm just like, let me have anything work.

Yeah, I'm like, all right, we'll tackle it all.

Whatever, fuck it.

So tell me your thoughts.

Cause I found this one interesting too.

Yeah, I don't know.

I think like something that's really interesting

is like having, like a beautiful thing

is having access to more language.

And I think it's incredible

because language can feel so limiting.

Like, gay straight lines and that's it, right?

There's so much nuance, of course,

that comes into being queer.

But I think right now, at least it feels like

so many of those labels have turned into

these really like iron-clad boxes.

And especially with people that are like,

I feel to be honest, accidentally, visibly queer.

As in like, I have a certain following, I guess,

on social, like I think by nature of working in media,

that just kind of naturally built on its own.

And I'm just, you know, so like,

maybe some people listened and that's cool.

But I think watching a lot of people

be visibly queer specifically, I would say, like,

lesbian women, and I understand are like,

are anchoring and wanting these labels to mean a lot to us.

But sometimes we get so lost in them

that we don't let people grow or change.

And then like the thing about being a human is like,

you're gonna change.

You're like, every single day, I hope we are.

I hope I am all the time.

And I think that like, when maybe you identify a certain way

or, and if that ends up being in flux,

there's a limited room to like grow.

And I think because we become so attached to like words

as like part of our identity,

we don't let those words maybe get like erased.

And then rewritten.

It's like written in ink in a way that sometimes I'm like,

but the beautiful part about being queer is like,

things can flow and change and evolve.

And like the prison of being straight,

in my opinion, is like how much of a cage to be in

to be like a little bit, not to be Josh Hutchinson

that one photo, straight but not narrow.

But it's like, you know, the cool thing about being queer

is like you get to really like live.

You can get to really move around.

It's been a little war.

It's been a little bit of war lately.

In a way that I'm like, what if we breathe?

You know, it's interesting that you bring this up.

I don't know if you're comfortable with this,

but we'll do it and then we can cut it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

If not, did you see the Betty who?

Of course, yeah.

And I have not addressed this yet.

Okay.

And that's if you want to decide you.

So I'm with you.

I'm with you.

You know, whatever you want to do.

That was a really interesting experience for me.

I think the response to that was unexpected.

And I realized that that is because of my privilege.

I can look at that situation and say, I was living in LA.

Yeah.

I'm a white, cis, femme, woman.

Like I, that is not lost on me at all.

Yeah.

And so in that moment, where things were said,

which what Betty was trying to say,

I think was very similar to what you are trying to say.

I understood the message through the like, I understood it.

Right.

With some things that were, you know, tone deaf.

Yeah.

And that's, I also can see that.

But I didn't fight back because my response,

that wasn't my genuine response.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, I think why people were really upset with me,

particularly was because I didn't challenge that idea.

Yeah.

And it's because that just isn't my lens.

Now, what I will say is that situation taught me

a lot about my audience's lens.

So now when someone comes, I'm a lot more prepared

to like have those conversations and be in the audience's shoes,

I think.

But I will say, like I didn't completely disagree

with what they were saying.

Like the ethos of it.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's basically what you're saying.

Yeah.

Like we have to give people room or the bare minimum,

some grace, you know.

Right.

Just like the political context of so many basic human rights,

right, being under attack, especially in communities of color,

especially poor people, especially trans people.

Of course, we can, like, that is at least something I know

I'm thinking about.

And I think maybe I will put an asterisk on this.

My attachment to, like, I've had to come out of this

queer over and over and over and over.

And to the point where I just like stop caring.

Like the thing that I think about first is like,

maybe there's ways for me to like hide my queerness,

but like, I'm never hiding my blackness.

Like, I mean, I'm like, oh, maybe biracial one day,

someone might think I'm biracial,

but no one's ever like guessing about my blackness specifically.

So I kind of think about my queerness

sometimes second to that.

And then, and of course, just based off of how I grew up

and the family I grew up in.

But I think that like, it feels really scary sometimes.

How much weight and pressure is put on people

that are visibly queer.

Especially when we're talking about people

who are in the public eye.

Yeah.

Because of their queerness or largely

because of their queerness.

You are building an identity.

Yeah.

A fixed identity on something

that is not necessarily always going to be fixed.

And that's a really tricky game we play.

You know, I feel very confident in the fact

that I'm a lesbian.

I was with men for a very long time.

I've gone through kind of that.

Try to do that.

Exactly.

But here's what I'll tell you.

I have sexual trauma in my past.

Yeah.

I cannot separate my sexual trauma

from my sexual identity.

Meaning, maybe if I wouldn't have ever

had those experiences, I would be,

I would have a different, I don't know.

Because I will never live a life

where I didn't have those experiences.

So like, I don't know.

It's just like, it's too nuanced

and it's too, and it's so particular

to like every single person.

I don't know.

I think it's so nuanced.

And I just wish that the, I mean, good luck with this,

maybe, but I do wish that the internet

was just like a little bit more open to conversation

and a little bit more understanding that like,

everyone's kind of just doing their best.

Like, here is exactly why I didn't respond.

Yeah.

I want to address this because I think for the listeners

who are like, made it out listeners,

who I love, and I cherish, and I respect.

It wasn't like a disrespect to the listener.

It was largely the conversation was being had on TikTok.

TikTok has...

Where no conversations need to happen.

Exactly.

And we are, TikTok is a big part of, I think,

the problem that we're in politically

and as a society in general.

We are, we've all become experts

because we listen to a 60-second TikTok.

Whatever it is.

And so my problem was, okay,

so you respond to the TikToks

and you respond to the, you know, the quick hits.

And now I become a part of the problem

because that's not nuanced conversation.

We're not sitting down like this

and having a back and forth

where we can actually display viewpoints that...

Yeah.

So you start replying to one person,

oh well, then good luck.

You're replying to everyone.

And how many, you know, with a certain word capacity,

with how many minutes in a video,

like it's still, it's not real.

It's a water, also, these things are done

with PR teams, with strategy.

It's like, it is watered down and it's not genuine.

And that's not how I operate.

And also I honestly would say the thing is like,

what a seconding opportunity for you.

Like to be, maybe it didn't feel like it in the moment,

but like, to, let's go back to the thesis,

to change and grow and like, think about some,

like reflect.

Absolutely.

Like maybe someone listening now is probably like,

I hate what they're saying, I don't agree,

and maybe they're popping off in the comments right now.

You're entitled to that.

100% of that.

Like, but I will never be the girl

who does something wrong and responds two days later.

Yeah, yeah.

Ever.

Yeah.

Because I sat with that for a really long time.

Like, what could I have done better?

And what, and it's something that stays with me

and now going into my interviews,

I have a completely different perspective in lens

and I'm thankful for that experience very much so.

But like, I think that the quicker someone responds

to something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is it really, did you really learn?

Yeah.

Did you?

You know, no, you have to like, sit down.

Shut the door.

Break your phone.

Break your phone, sit down for a minute.

Like even, I don't know, I'm allowing myself to say

how I feel right now.

I'm a tourist, so I'm usually pretty beholden to how I feel.

Yeah.

I've heard you've heard so.

Like, hey, hey, you're welcome.

But Loyal's welcome.

But like, you know, in a month, maybe I have a different POV.

Maybe I learn something new.

Maybe I change how I feel.

Like, I'm always like what willing and like ready to learn.

And I hope that we all can kind of like move from that lens

a little bit more, especially in the queer community.

I'm like, I'm like, the opposite outside.

Like, why are we throwing hands?

We got to get, we got to get tired of what they want.

Yeah.

Why such as let me just go toe to toe.

No.

Like, yeah.

I don't know.

Like, fuck up.

Sit down.

You have a bigger fist if I will circle back to this.

I don't know.

Sorry.

I don't want to take up too much time.

I don't know.

It sounds very maybe pedestally.

And I don't want to be talking from ever up, just like at.

But like, yeah.

I don't know.

I'm curious that there might be like a reversion into just like queer

as an umbrella term for a lot of the ways people identify, just

because so many people I know.

And I'm so like grateful to be witness to it.

I've just seen change so much in terms of like knowing

that they're like allowed to.

This sounds maybe counterintuitive.

But like, I know gay men that are like, oh, I'm allowed to be

by like, wow, yeah.

And like, yeah, you are.

Maybe you don't just like make it out with me at a party,

baby, maybe you're by, right?

And like, that's okay.

And like, let's keep the room open for that.

And I think queer is this word that I'm interested if we're

just going to return to as a society as not that, not that,

you know, if you are lesbian, be lesbian.

If you are gay, be gay, no one's saying like, don't have labels

that mean something to you.

But I do think there might be a general reversion back into

queer as an umbrella term that people use more often

because of how much we're learning.

We're allowed to change right now.

Do you see that happening?

I think so.

I think I'm a lot of young people too.

Yeah.

Well, as a gender person,

I think like it's been from what I, I don't know how I would

like, I guess like a culture writer,

pop culture writer, but also culture in general.

I do really feel so interested in young people's lives

and like how the trauma they're experiencing right now.

But like how queerness is so much more

of a different conversation now than,

and I'm only 30, and I'm only 19.

And I'm only 31, but you know, even like us growing up,

just like, you know, with your nipple out,

me dry-humping everything, like it still was so different.

Yeah.

And it continues to evolve.

So I'm curious like how, for young people,

this will keep shaping.

In the political landscape,

so we have this like really progressive kind of side of things

where it's like, yeah, you don't have to come out anymore.

You're just, you are who you are.

And then on the other side of things,

you have this antiquated fucking political system

that's, how are those marrying and what are you seeing?

Well, I mean, I like have to straight up say,

like I grew up in LA, I live in New York,

like I make a certain amount of money.

I'm friends with a certain amount of people.

Like my world, I know is not the world.

Right.

So like I, I want to like recognize that.

And I think like, you know,

it's so different depending on where you live,

depending on how much money you make,

depending on like your family history

or your religious, maybe trauma,

or if you're so religious right now,

I think like it's a little coastal sometimes.

And I find myself trapped in that too.

When I find myself surprised by certain,

like policies being put in place,

it's like, so I'm not paying enough attention

to the South right now.

Like I'm not paying enough attention to like outside

of my life in LA in New York.

And that's fully on me.

And I think like, and you know,

God, that's like when, when,

Kamala lost, and there was so much hope

and you're like, wait, what the fuck world was I living?

I, that's a piece of shit.

Yeah, I think remember.

I do think though, like what's we're seeing

is more like visibility.

Like we have more access, right?

We have more cameras, we have more social media.

I mean, that's AI is like, again, different progress.

But I do think that like having access to,

if I need to know what's going on in Texas

and like on the ground floor,

that I can have access to that.

Like there are networks where we can tap in

to see like resource sharing.

What people need, like how we can show up for each other.

We saw that with ice in Minnesota.

Like it was like, we are all Minnesota.

And we have access, like, and that is amazing

to be able to be in some ways like present there,

even virtually.

I think that we are going pretty backwards

as a political, as a country.

And that's not new to anyone.

But I do think something that we're seeing

is like a really radical like uprising against that

in a way that like is rooted in queerness.

And like is something that like resistance

as a form of anti-laws and policies

that are being put in place is something

that I think is inherently queer

to be like, we're going to say no to this.

We're going to defy this norm.

And I think that there was a lot of fear put in place.

And I feel like Minnesota is actually a really great example

of how people are using that as a model to say, like, no.

And I hope that that keeps happening.

And it's like great that we have access to language

and I didn't, you know, labels and like new ways of being.

But that's only part of the story.

That's only like a, honestly, and sometimes

like a small part of like the resistance movement to like,

not have what was over like 500, 600 anti-trans laws

put in place last year.

So I don't know.

I think like, it's allowed, like,

these two things can happen at the same time

and they like always are.

Like historically, like, it's always happening at the same time.

But I'm just hoping it goes a little bit more like this.

Like, yay.

Boo.

But what's it?

Peyton, I could literally talk to you.

I know.

I feel like I've taken up so much time.

No, no, no, you haven't.

Like, no, no, no.

Oh my god, it's been amazing.

OK, OK.

I have one more question now.

Yeah, yeah.

Ask everybody, what are you working on in therapy?

So Aaron's in the, Aaron's up to a 20.

I see that.

I see.

I literally like moved my therapy this week

because I'm like, I can't right now.

You can actually, but OK.

You actually, you should.

But I think like a little bit of negative self talk

that specifically happens like in a new year for me.

Oh, interesting.

Because I'm really like, if you come to my apartment,

you're scared, first of all.

There's affirmations everywhere.

There's a lot of that.

It's very like, OK, you did the artist's way, we know.

All right, relax.

It's very, OK, you have feelings.

And we're all feeling them because we're in the space.

It's annoying.

But I think when I start new years,

I'm always like to think of things

and like these markers of time.

Like, it makes me really anxious.

And it makes me say really mean things to myself

about like what I've done or what I'm going to do.

And I feel like I'm trying to talk back from that

and be like, I'm just doing what I'm doing right now.

I'm here.

Because time has passed and you feel

like you haven't accomplished enough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

OK.

And it's like not true and like relax.

And I think I'm just trying to find better ways

like when I go up that hill to just like walk myself back down

and just be a little bit more like, well, I'm present here

right now and like, how am I feeling?

And like, what can I take into account?

It literally always comes back to presence.

So it's about being present.

Yeah.

We're kind of like Esmeralda's here.

Renee Brown Esmeral, watch your bag, bitch.

We're coming for you.

We're coming.

So it's actually all about being present.

Get that right that down.

We're present, it's practice.

Like, truly, I was like, oh, like,

I'm having such a lovely time right now.

This feels so like cool and fun and lovely

to just be speaking to you.

And that feels like even if I don't like write down

and I was like, oh my god, the biggest milestone of my,

like, I'm having a great day.

I'm having a great hour.

Yeah.

And you know what?

Besides this pimple, you know,

honestly, we might get a star face deal out of this.

So I, you know, like, I feel that a lot,

especially just because my whole life changed.

And now I'm dating again, after not really expecting

to have to date again.

And I think it is just this like, okay,

you're here right now.

Does this feel good in my nervous system right now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like, going back to your body.

Yeah.

And that's what my therapist is always telling me.

Like, because I'm, I'm like a thinker.

Like my head will run and run and run and run.

Yeah.

And I'll like think myself out of something.

Absolutely.

And that's the worst.

I'd rather be, I wish I was a hard, no hard, yes,

kind of girl.

But I'm like a, I'll start going back.

Like that's like, and then I just like,

I lose the thing or I forget the thing or, you know,

and I'm trying to just be like, let me feel my gut

and like, let me know what feels good.

Yeah.

This feels great, by the way.

Oh, I love that, yeah.

Can you please tell people where to find you?

Yeah, I, I looked at it.

Not gone.

It's me, Margaret.

Right here, okay.

I'm Peyton Dicks.

You can follow me on Instagram at Peyton Dicks.

Thank y'all for listening to today's episode.

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