Q&A: The Trinity, Repentance, and Mormonism

0:00It's Paul in America, make it count. At the Ram Drive-In to Fall Sales Event, make it powerful with our strongest Ram 1500 ever. Make it move with the Ram Heavy Duty with an available Cummins diesel and make it go to the distance with a 10-year or 100,000-mile powertrain limited warranty. Hurry and now for great deals during the Ram Drive-In to Fall Sales Event. Excludes fully electric vehicles applied to 2026 model-year vehicles non-transferable visit MoPAR.com for complete details and a copy of the powertrain limited warranty. Cummins is a registered trademark of Cummins Inc. Ram and Hemiar registered trademark of FCA-US LLC. Hurd all across the United States, Canada and around the world. This is the Bible Answerman broadcast with Hank Hanagraff, Hank as president of the Christian Research Institute. At CRI, our desire is to equip you not only to defend the historic Christian faith, but to become a win some witness to a spiritually hungry but skeptical world, because life

1:00and truth matter. To learn more or to find resources to help you grow in grace, call 888-7000-CRI or go online to equip.org. That's equip.org. The following program was pre-recorded. And now, here's Hank Hanagraff. Thank you very much, Randy. We'll go right to the phone calls. Ron, first listening in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Ron. Hey, how are you doing today? I'm doing good. Thank you. I have a question pertaining to the Trinity. Recently, I've came across a few things and I've always seen scripture pertaining to the Trinity, but as far as its basis, you know, as its name and how it's spoken of in the Bible and how it's called out in the church, could you just expand on that and how you feel about the Trinity and non-Ternitarian churches?

2:01Yeah. Well, the Trinity is just a word that codifies a biblical concept, which is to say what the Bible teaches in Old and New Testament is that there's only one God. If you go to the Old Testament, you can look at the Hebrew Shemaah, here in Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is one. Go to the New Testament and you see there an emphatic statement that there's one God and Father of all who is overall and through all and in all. So both Old and New Testament's communicate that there's only one God and as such the Jews were fiercely monotheistic. They didn't believe in many gods. They believed in only one God. Now beyond that, if you read both the Old and New Testament, you see that the one God is revealed in three persons, which is to say that in both Old and New Testament, we're taught that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.

3:03But more than that, we're also taught that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct, which is to say the Father doesn't become the Son and the Son doesn't become the Holy Spirit. They are eternally distinct persons within the Godhead. So therefore we teach that what the Bible says is true. One God revealed in three persons eternally distinct and Trinity just becomes a word that's useful in codifying what the Bible therefore plainly teaches. So what do you think the non-Trinitarian basis is really consisting of? Is it a denial of something? Yeah, it is. It is philosophically driven, which is to say non-Trinitarians typically say this, look, I can't comprehend the Trinity and therefore I'm going to reimagine God in terms to which I can directly relate that become understandable to me.

4:04So there's a difference between being philosophically driven and being biblically driven. If you're biblically driven, you say I'm going to bow my knee before God's revelation of Himself to me as opposed to reimagining God in terms that I can comprehend. And I think that's foolish to reimagine God. Reason being is we don't want God to be reducible to human understanding, which is to say God is immutable. He's transcendent. He's omnipresent, omniscient. He is beyond our kin and we will spend an eternity getting to know more fully the nature of God. So to say that we can only apprehend who God is and not comprehend who God is is perfectly acceptable within a biblical worldview. Well, wouldn't be acceptable as if the Bible would produce contradictory paradigms with regards to God. But that's not what goes on with the Trinity. To say that there's one God has to do with his essence or nature, to say that there

5:07are three persons within the Godhead has to do with identity formed and completed on the basis of relationships within the Godhead. Therefore, the Trinity is not contradictory while it is beyond our kin. And as far as the basis of some churches in their relationship with God as you're saying, this is the Trinity. And as one who's trying to come to understanding in all bodies of Christ and God is one, could you just open up on how you feel about the Trinity to be looked at as the final word? Yeah, well, I mean, we have to think God's thoughts after him. We are commanded to bow our knee before God's revelation of Himself to us. And therefore, I have great admiration for the Bible. And I bow my knee before God's revelation of Himself to me. It is the final word. It is the final court of arbitration.

6:08It is the infallible rule for faith and practice. Therefore, I accept what the Bible teaches to me. And I particularly do so because I can demonstrate that the Bible's divine is opposed to merely human and origin. And I've developed a cumulative case for that. You might book, has God spoken, proof of the Bible's divine inspiration. If I can prove that the Bible is divine, then I can legitimately say the Bible says it has meaning because I can demonstrate that what the Bible says is in fact correct. That's why I call it the infallible repository of redemptive revelation. Back to the phone lines, we'll talk to Jennifer next. She's listening in Wichita, Kansas. Hi, Jennifer. Hi, thanks. Hi. My question is, I've heard you say, and I've heard from a lot of churches that I've been to in things that hell is eternal separation from God. Now, I've also heard a North of Doc's view, which is that because you are imperfect, you are in God's presence, but hell is in his perfection destroying you.

7:09So my question is, if God is omnipresent, how can you be truly separated from Him? So you can be separated from the loving presence of God even in this life. Certainly, all of creation is immediately in the presence of God, but that does not mean that you cannot be separated from the loving presence of God. And that, in fact, is what hell is. It does not mean that God cannot see or cannot in any way know where people are in their separation from Him. Certainly, He does know that. They, however, do not experience His loving presence. Although, in hell, God continues to sustain people in existence. He does not rub out the crowning jewels of His creation, even though they have chosen to live apart from His goodness and grace. That makes a lot of sense.

8:10The other question I had to ask kind of goes along with it. I've heard you say that there are different levels of punishment in hell, and I guess I just wanted to hear some scriptural basis for that viewpoint. Yeah. And indeed, there are levels of reward in heaven and different levels of punishment in hell. And there is much to be said about that from the perspective of Scripture. Jesus points this out in various ways in the Word of God. This is also pointed out by the canon of Scripture itself, which is to say, it is not only the words of Jesus revealed in Scripture, but the words of Scripture in and of themselves. The unified testimony of Scripture is that God is perfectly just, and He will reward and punish each person in accordance with what He or she has done. We see that in the Psalms. We see that in the Proverbs. We see that in Jeremiah, passages like Jeremiah 17.

9:14We see it in Ezekiel, in Romans. We see it in Paul's letters to the Corinthians, to the Colossians. And we see it in John's Revelation as well. But there's another point that should be made. The Bible is clear that the greater revelation and responsibility always comes with stricter judgment. So the more revelation, the more responsibility and the more judgment that will come if you fail to heed that which has been revealed. And that's why Jesus warned the Pharisees that they would be punished most severely for their willful hypocrisy. And then remember in denouncing the cities where most of his miracles had transpired, Jesus said, whoa to you, chorison, whoa to you, the seda. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed entire in sight, and they

10:15would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. And then Jesus said it will be more bearable for tire and sight on the day of judgment then for you. And remember as well that Jesus used the metaphor of physical torture to warn his hears that those who knowingly disobey will experience greater torment in hell than those who disobey in ignorance. You can find that in passages like Luke chapter 12. All right. Well, thank you so much, Hank, that clears up a lot for me. You got it. I've written about this in my book Resurrection under a section called Rewards. Also, I've dealt with this in the complete Bible answer book collector's edition, which is available through the ongoing ministry of the Christian research institute, all of these resources available in the web at equip.org. You can pick up the phone, talk to our resource consultant, strip a late 7000 in the letters CRI.

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15:34Once again, here is Hank Hanna Graves. Thank you Randy and we return to our callers. Want to go to Howe, listening in Fort Wayne, Indiana? Hi. Hi Hank, I have a question. If repenting is so important, why did Paul only mention once in all of his writing because there are teachings going on around my town? That says, if we repent after we are born again, we are actually disrespecting off what Jesus did on the cross. Well, I think it's wrong to say that Paul only mentions it once. He mentions it in Romans chapter 2 and 2 Corinthians chapter 7. Certainly it's mentioned throughout the Bible by Jesus, it's mentioned by Peter, it's mentioned by John, particularly in the Revelation. So repentance is a dominant theme in Scripture and what it actually is is an old English word

16:39in terms of how we use it, the actual word repentance, for expressing a U-turn on the road of life, a change of heart, a change of mind, a change of the will, turning from doing it our way to doing it God's way. So even when the actual term is not used in the Scriptures, the concept is clearly communicated as part of what the gospel is all about. It is a recognition that you are a sinner, a willing to repent or turn from that sin and receive Jesus Christ and trust in Him as opposed to trusting in yourself. Yes, I guess like the problem is that when Jesus mentioned that, if we think in our mind, we are actually committing the actual sin. So what if that, if we worry so much about repenting, what if that creates us into more of sin conscious than rather than grace conscious? No, I mean Jesus is pointing out the enormity of sin which allows us to understand the

17:40enormity of grace. In fact in the very passages that you reference Jesus is making clear that if a person thinks a murderous thought, he is already committed murder in his heart. So Jesus is actually talking to people who think their self righteous and think they might be able to do it on their own and he is pointing out the full extent of sin so that people get a true valuation of things and recognize how necessary it is that they fall upon his grace. Okay. So do you suggest we also repent of our daily thoughts? Absolutely. I think every single day we ask God for forgiveness and we turn from those sins that we commit and recognize that He is faithful and just and He will, if we confess our sins, be faithful and just and forgive us our sins and purify us from all in righteousness, we should ask forgiveness for those sins. If we do not, we will break our communion with God, not our union with God but certainly

18:44our communion with God because sin becomes a barrier again in our relationship. Okay. What are the two verses that you mentioned, Romans and… Well, yeah. There's a whole bunch of verses. I mean, the first thing I mentioned is that Jesus Christ throughout the Bible talks about the necessity for repentance. But then you find in the scripture in Romans chapter 2 that God's kindness leads you to repentance. These are the words of Paul or in 2 Corinthians 7 where Godly sorrow brings repentance, 2 Peter, his prayer that everyone come to repentance. So it's a fairly ubiquitous theme throughout the scriptures. Okay. Thank you so much. Hank, I love your show. Hey, thank you so much for your question. I love it when people press their questions because this is what we have to do. Test all things. Hold fast to that which is good. As I say, it doesn't mean it's true.

19:44What we have to do is test all things in light of scripture and then hold fast to that which is good. Let's go back to the phone lines now, talk to Jim, listening to him, Kansas City, Missouri. Hi, Jim. Hey, Hank, thanks so much for your ministry. Thank you. I had a question for you. I live in Independence, Missouri or close to Independence which seems to be kind of a high concentration of the Mormon church and so there's a lot of questions that come up about Mormonism with that type of thing. So two questions for you. One is, does Independence, Missouri have some kind of historical significance in the Mormon church? And also, what is the difference between Mormons, RLDS and the community of Christ which is prevalent in this area? Yeah. Well, first of all, most Mormons believe that there are many gods and that men can become gods. But the reorganized church maintains that there's only one god holding what appears at least to face value to be a trinitarian view. And whereas Mormons traditionally hold that god was once a mere man and that he had to

20:48work his way to godhood, the reorganized church teaches that god has always been god. So these are substantial differences. And then you can add to that the fact that the reorganized church repudiates secret temple rituals like baptism for the dead. So again, very significant differences. But I also have to point out that while I commend the reorganized church's opposition to the majority of Mormonism's false teachings, there are a number of reasons that would still prompt us to classify them as heretical. Contrary to Scripture, the reorganized church still believes that Christianity was completely overrun by apostasy. And they also maintain that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who was sent by God to restore the church and that he had to re-institute the apostolic and prophetic offices along with the Old Testament priesthoods and that he also had to convey additional revelation

21:49from God, which of course is what the Book of Mormon is supposed to be. Now, as far as their eschatology is concerned, in general, what Mormons believe is that when Jesus returns, Mormons are going to be miraculously gathered together in Jackson County, Missouri, and they're instantly going to be gathered along with the descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. So yeah, it has real significance in Mormon eschatology. And in fact, it's so prevalent in their psyche that Mitt Romney felt compelled to underscore the Mormon notion that during the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, he would reign from two places, Missouri and Jerusalem. And Romney actually said that throughout the Bible, Christ appears in Jerusalem. He splits the Mount of Olives to stop the war that's coming in to kill all the Jews. And then he says that when the coming of Christ in glory occurs, we also believe that in

22:51the millennium, he will reign from two places, that the law will come forth from one place in Missouri and the other will be in Jerusalem. So it has huge eschatological significance in Mormon lore. And as community of Christ, the same thing as RLDS. Yeah, the RLDS is the community of Christ. The same organization, different name. Okay. Okay. Well, great. That's some great information. I appreciate it. You got it. Thank you so much for your call. Want to go back to the phone lines. Eli, listening in Fresno, California. Hi, Eli. Hi, OK. Good. How are you? Pretty good. Hello, my question for you was about the book of Enoch. I just doing some research on the book in the pop-up. Someone said it's mostly in the Old Testament, but it's not. And also why isn't it? Well, first of all, if you look at Jude, you'll see that the Enoch described as the seventh from Adam.

23:53And this Enoch evidently prophesied about the very men that Jude alludes to. But the book itself, the book of Enoch, was a pseudo-pigrafel book. So it was a false writing. And that, however, does not mean that it didn't convey truth. It just did not meet the standards of canonicity. And remember, the standard of canonicity is not something that is determined by men, but rather a principle determined by God, by which men can discover that which is canonical or that which meets the measure and that which is not. Okay. Thank you. You got to want to go back to the phone lines now and talk to David, listening on the web in Indiana. Hi, David. Hi, Hank. Thanks so much for your ministry. I really have been blessed by you over the years.

24:54I wanted to see if you could help shed some truth on this unconventional election. It seemed to be really perplexed by what some of my friends and some of the other teachers I've heard talking about that. And I was hoping you could help me with that. Yeah. Well, a couple of things I would say. First of all, I think it's instructive to note that we have a particular article in the Christian Research Journal, which is very helpful in this regard because it gives a Calvinist perspective and a non-Calvness perspective and what we did or endeavor to do. And the journal is get two good minds on both sides of the issues. It's not a strong end debate or an unequally weighted debate, but we had a really good articular authority that communicates the Calvinist position and then a good, strongly reasoned mind, biblically literate mind that is giving the non-Calvness position.

25:56So you take both of the theological structures and you test them in light of scripture and hold fast to that, which is good. And what I like about that article in particular is it allows you to take the time to take the good argument, test the argument because the scriptural basis, sometimes the philosophical basis or the theological deduction is given and you have an opportunity to weigh this because you've got a good response, someone that's coming back and not just letting something slide, actually giving a good response. So I think because I'm limited on time right now, I'll just leave it at that. But if you hang on, I'll get that article and put it into your hands. We'll be right back here tomorrow ready to answer your questions. So long for now. We appreciate you tuning in to the Bible Answer Man broadcast. If you've been blessed by the broadcast and want more information to help you grow in the grace and knowledge of God, go to our website at equip.org.

26:56That's equip.org. The contact a resource consultant called 888-7000-CRI. Again, that's 888-7000-274. Or you can write to us at Post Office Box 8500 Charlotte, North Carolina, zip code 28271. The Bible Answer Man broadcast is supported by listeners like you. We're on the air because life and truth matter. Bertrand Russell famously said, most people would rather die than think, and many of them do. Not so with CRI support team members. Support team members are not only serious thinkers, but their membership in CRI support team helps to equip hundreds of thousands of fellow believers around the globe each and every month. Are you not a member? Then you're missing out.

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