Q&A: Grief, Loss, Exes, and More

0:00But dad, catch, mom, and now your marriage on top of it all in three years, it's just a massive amount of grief, and you have to understand that what it takes to grieve a massive amount of loss isn't just time. Time does not heal by itself. From the New York City area, welcome to the Badass Counseling Show, where the master, Badass himself, Sven Erlinson, takes you deep. He gives balm for the soul, baby. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It is great to have you here. This is the Badass Counseling Show podcast. We're so blessed to have you here, whether you're checking in from Ohio or Wisconsin, or Orelia, Ontario, cross-British Columbia, down in Arkansas, the good people of Arkansas, South Carolina,

1:00Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi. We love you. We love our southern folk. Then hopefully they tolerate us. We talk a little funny up here in New York City area, but we do love you. It's great to have you here. I am joined by my team on the Badass Counseling Show, the team that actually keeps the show running. I just have the mouth that won't stop running, and I am joined by KC and the booth who is the creative force of the show. KC is not going to say hello, but she's waving. You have to take my word for that. Next, me is Rob, the rocket. Rob, how are you today, young man? Yo, yo, I'm doing very well, Sven. The other day I had the TV on, and Kusoblanka came on, which I've probably seen 15 or 20 times. Wow. Every time I get a little teary, so is there something wrong with me? No. Oh, good. I mean, it's not exactly broke culture, but I was very choked up at the whole thing. Again. You're human. Oh, right. You're human. Let's know. Now, you actually saw the new movie Odyssey.

2:03I did see Odyssey. No spoilers, but did you like it? Yeah, I mean, it's a modern take on a 3,000 year old story, so I have no issue with that. It's the director's interpretation. If anybody doesn't like it, well, too bad. It's his idea. It's his movie. Right. Right. I love it. I love it. I can't wait to see it. Very excited. Very excited. Okay, folks, we're going to get started here. We've got lots of questions flying at us here, so I'm going to go into the weeds here. And just so you know, this is badass counseling. And if you have questions, we simply ask that you leave this psychological jargon out. And just put it down in real layman's terms. Like everyone listening could understand it. Just in regular talk, if you would, please. All right. We're going to open with Terry on Facebook. She is a regular listener of the show, regular commenter. Friend of the show. Terry, good to see you. I have a clutter problem which goes with my running problem, spending money. I have journaled, but I can't stop the clutter. Could I have another issue for the reason of the clutter? It started after my cat died.

3:03After your cat died, that would have been the trigger, Terry. There's a deeper, the deeper belief down deep is that you need to hold on to things. You're holding on to a lot of things. And your money spending is some desire to get high. Makes you feel good. And between the holding on to things for fear of losing things and the spending money, it's some sort of high to avoid. There is something inside of you that you are running from. And no doubt when your cat died. And my dog literally just died. We had to put him down two, three weeks ago. All right. Still grieving over that one. And I'm sure that'll go on for quite some time. And these things, hoarding the clutter, holding on to things. Why? Because you lost something. And the idea of losing things hurts. And then the spending money problem is what? It's for that high of searching for it. And then spending the money in the high we get from some new thing makes at least for that period of time, makes that pain go away.

4:04But there is something deeper. I believe that you've been doing the journaling. But there is something deeper that you haven't hit. And Terry, I would ask you, first of all, have you read Love Cup? There's a hole in my Love Cup. And actually down the journaling exercise in it. Because these are, these particular problems being triggered, it could be just a result of the grief of your cat dying. I mean, that's the obvious. If that's when it started. But it could be that is sort of the tipping point of something that's been there longer and deeper. And you're going to want to go into that. But at the very least, yeah, the spending is clearly an attempt. What do we do? It's the same reason somebody picks up a bottle. You know what? To make the pain go away. Or it dives into constant gaming. Or it's overworking. Why? They're trying to run away from that tidal wave of all the pain inside. That if I just keep running, if I just keep running, if I just get high, if I just take the latest drug or just keep swiping and scrolling, it will make that pain go away. And it doesn't. Because it's still there. And at some point, we have to turn into it. And I would ask you the question, what has your grieving process been like?

5:07Have you gone into the grief? Next question. Made with heart, made with love by Kimberly on TikTok. Ask the question. I said made with hearts. Yeah. That's shorthand, Sven. Hearts are love. Made with love by Kimberly asks, how can I deal with physical and mental issues? It feels like uncomfortable stress overload. How can you deal with it? Physical issues. Now, I don't know if you're talking about medical issues. Or if you're talking about that you have physical stress. Physical stress, you can release through physical exercise. Yoga. Going into the gym, getting on the treadmill, going out for walks, workouts. That sort of thing. But if all of this is being driven by mental issues, you have to be journaling. There's no question about it. You need to be writing those letters to people that you have issues with. But when you wake up in the middle of the night, I used to do this all the time. I don't really have to do it anymore because I've gotten all the big stuff out. But when I wake up in the middle of the night, I'd click on the light. Or if I was married at the time, I would go into the other room. And I'd click on a soft light.

6:08And I'd plot the pad of paper. Or if I was single, I'd just click on the side light. And I'd start writing and writing and writing and writing everything in my head. And I'd have two pads of paper. One of the pads was just a to-do list. Oh, shit, I got to pick up my dry cleaning tomorrow. And I'd put that on the to-do list. But then I'd keep writing. Everything I'm thinking, everything I'm feeling. Well, why am I feeling that? But what's really going on? But is that the real reason? And eventually, as I keep flushing, eventually, I notice hours later that I've woken up. And the light is still on. And there's a puddle of drool on the paper. And the pen is still in my hand. I fell asleep. Because what did I do? I flushed out all the stuff that was in my head. Rather than staying in my bed, staring at the ceiling, tossing and turning. You have to begin the process, people. You can't keep running from all the crud inside of you. You're fighting against yourself. It's like you've got one foot on the accelerator and one foot on the brake. Because you've got that crud inside. And the crud is always finds its origin in the core beliefs that you were taught to believe about

7:11yourself. You're not good enough who you are, isn't wantable. Who you are is unlovable that the real you doesn't matter. And until those messages, you go fully in and identify them and their origins and begin to extract them from you, they are still running your life. And they will get absolutely slam you like a freight train when you get hit by life's things, such as a beloved animal dying as it is happening with Terry. Okay, next question. This is from Tessity. I've had the worst three years of my life. My dad died, my cat died, my mom died, and now my marriage is dying. I'm so overwhelmed. I don't even know why I'm crying anymore. You're crying because it hurts. And this tragically is what grief is. First of all, Tessity, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. In three years, both of my parents died, but both of my parents were in their 90s. And I can't speak for my five siblings, but I had been preparing for it for 10 years, at least.

8:13So it didn't hit me like a freight train now. I don't know if you're much younger than I am, you know, I'm almost 60. So it was different, okay? But dad, cat, mom, and now your marriage on top of it all in three years, it's just, it's a massive amount of grief. And you have to understand that what it takes to grieve a massive amount of loss isn't just time. Time does not heal by itself. It's a myth. Time heals all wounds, it's bull. Does that old, you know, flip of that time wounds all heals. No, time doesn't heal anything. It makes it there and dulls it a little bit, but it's still there. It's a difference between acute pain and chronic dull throbbing pain. The pain is still there. So you test it even though you don't want to, you have to actively engage the extraction of the pain. One of the common phrases that came out of the 80s, really 70s, 80s, and then, you know,

9:20sorry, became much more part of common parlance in the 90s was, you got to sit in your pain, man. You got to sit in your pain. Well, yeah, but that's only half the equation. Sitting in it, in other words, allowing those feelings to come up from within, rather than constantly running from that title wave of, in your case, massive grief, or running from all the feelings from being cheated on or financial loss or whatever, all the stuff is a painful childhood or parents who don't want you, whatever it is. Running from that is not good, but to finally sit in it and welcome all of that up. So many people are terrified to do that, which is why they stay busy or they gamble or they booze or they cheat or whatever. But bringing it up and sitting in it and crying it out, crying it is half of the equation. It's not just up, it's out, up and out, up and out. And the out part requires deliberateness. And tears alone are not enough. You need the words. You need the journaling. You need to be in a small group, a lost group. You should be in a grief support group. There's no question in my mind,

10:23Tessa. Rob, you have a comment on grief support groups. Have you ever been in one? I have been in one because I had multiple traumas all at the same time, just like that. And it was a enormous help. And there's a first hand testimonial. I am a big believer in groups, group therapy. There's something about being in the company of peers, of all ages, who have experienced grief and who know. You don't even have to say it and they know. And to feel known, to feel seen, to feel heard, to feel understood, is such a glorious thing. It's better than reading to know we are not alone, as you often quote, right? To actually be with others, you are really not alone. And their support is invaluable. Absolutely. Absolutely. And when you can't find the words, they know the words. Or they'll say something inside, like, oh my god, you just put words, what I've been trying to say and what I've felt the last five years. Okay. But the point is you have to deliberately engage the active expulsion, expression, Latin

11:26X means outpress means to push. It's not enough to sit in it. It's not enough to cry. We have to actively put it into words, words for whatever reason that gods gave them to us. God, the universe gave them to us is it heals. They heal journaling, writing letters you don't send to the deceased, writing letter after letter after letter and keep writing. You have a lot of healing to do, my friend. And I mean that. And again, I'm so sorry for all of those losses. All right. Rob has got a question over on YouTube. Go ahead, Rob. That's right, Sven. Atomic Kevin says, I have a question for Sven. How do you stop believing that you have to become enough before someone can genuinely love you? In context, I discovered my best friend of 12 years is in a relationship with my ex. I got to ask you this question, Kevin. I will answer your question. I'm curious. At the moment, who do you hate more? Your ex or your best friend? I'm just curious on that one because everybody's different. There's no right or

12:28wrong answer, but you got to admit it's a reasonable question, right? Yeah. And so you're basically saying, how do I stop? What was the beginning part? How do you stop believing that you have to become enough before someone can genuinely love you? How do you stop believing that you have to become enough before someone will genuinely love you? The reason you believe that, Kevin, is because there is a belief in you that says, you're not enough. And there is nothing you can put into you that is going to make you believe all of a sudden that you are. How do you stop believing that? You go inside and you do the surgery. That is a tapeworm, man. You've got this eight-foot-long tapeworm inside of you, Kevin. It's a virus. And that virus has been infecting the operating system of who you are since you were a child. When you were a child, somehow it was conveyed to you, either explicitly or implicitly, that who you are as you isn't good enough. And you got to step

13:30up, brother, and you got to perform. And you got to jump through the hoops and not just the hoops, but flaming hoops and not just flaming hoops, but flaming hoops that are dodging and moving, and not just that, but there are daggers in them too. And you better do it and you got to do it under a certain time. And you got to do it again and again and you got to do it no more each year. You got the message that you as Kevin aren't enough. And it was a bullshit message. What child? And I'm opening this up to the entire peanut gallery. Name for me one child in the history of humanity who was innately unlovable just as they are. Name for me just one. Doesn't exist. But somehow, Kevin, I mean, Kevin, do you have children? Do you have Nisa and nephews? Do you have the kids that you see it's, you know, in your neighborhood? And you can look at them and say, oh, they're not good enough. They need to get better. Boy, what a little snot nose, pecker head. That one is, oh, no, he's definitely on level. No, they're all lovable. They're beautiful,

14:30they're sweet, they're playful, they're rambunctious. They steal a little lecture cookie if they can. You know, they're cranky when they get an app they're full of laughter just like every child, they're beautiful, innately lovable. And you were too. But somebody taught you the lie that you weren't. Somebody pressed the message into the wetsumment of your soul that you are not good enough the way you are. And now there's people saying, even Jan is saying, we'll run Facebook here. She's saying, supposedly I was that one child. See, you're not the only one, Kevin. So many people got that message as children that you are innately unlovable and as bullshit, no child could possibly be intrinsically unlovable. It's just nonsense. There was never anything wrong with you. And there's still isn't, Kevin. You were taught a lie. And until you go down into you and identify the roots of that lie and extract that lie like that fucking tape, where that virus will continue to infect the operating system and you will forever be fighting that virus because it's been there so long you actually think that is written in the original code of who

15:34you are. It never was. It was never part of the original operating system. God damn, I sound like a computer scientist. I sound pretty fucking cool when I do that. I know nothing about computers. All right. All right. And to that, Heather over on Facebook says, no, you weren't, Kevin, the people who told you that sock. I love that. Good answer, Heather. Thanks. Thanks for backing me up on that one. Love you. All right. Melinda says, just got your book. There's a hole in my love cup. Good. Now when you're reading the book, be sure to do all the questions in the book and do them in writing. That's where the real action happens. All right. NorCal girl says, I needed this. Thank you. Good. Good. Good. If you guys have questions, keep sending them in. We're doing great here. Keep firing away. And Tessity actually follows up on all the pain that she has going on in life and she says, and the only person who can give me comfort, my husband is just causing me more pain. Unfortunately, you may need to create some emotional distance between you and your husband right now because you need to heal you. All right. Just lots of great questions coming in. Great question here. And this

16:39is being sent in by MWBK. How can you journal when you're concerned about privacy and security? Two things. One, have your pen in one hand and a lighter in the other hand. I have a knife in my other hand, but pretend it's a lighter and just burn it when you're done. Have your pen in one hand journal journal journal. Stick it in the shredder after you're done. Journal journal journal. Flush it down the toilet when you're done. Or do it, put it in an encrypted file. No one says you have to keep your journals folks. And if I've given you that impression, I apologize. You don't have to keep your journals. I don't keep my journals anymore. Not occasionally. I think I have maybe one of my computer, but it's just rotating one. I delete it whenever you know, I have to shut down my computer for travel or whatever. I don't keep my journals. I used to. I used to have boxes and boxes of journals. Then I burned them. It's not necessary. I didn't use it against me in court once with one ex-wife giving them to another ex-wife. That went well. So I get it. I get the security thing, but there's no need to keep them. Just burn

17:44them. Throw them out. Flush them. Whatever. All right. Next question. Someone says, I have your book, but I love your videos more. Thanks. I appreciate that, but the videos are not going to take you anywhere near as deep as the book will. And the book is designed to literally heal you. The videos are designed to punch you in the face just because it's fun for me. All right. Nathan Andrews asked the question, are all cheaters narcissists? Well, I'm going to tweak your question, Nathan, even though you didn't give me permission to do. Because narcissism, clinical narcissism is a psychological term. And I believe in leaving the psychological jargon to the psychologist. I am not a psychologist. I was a classicist. I have studied both ancient and coin a Greek. So I feel quite at liberty to use the word narcissism and narcissists. They co-opted it from us. However, in this case, I use the phrase extreme taker,

18:44extreme taker for narcissists. So if we insert that in place in narcissists and re-ask Nathan's very good question here, are all cheaters extreme takers? Yes. Yes. That doesn't mean they don't give a lot. Maybe they give a lot at work, take a lot in their own private life. Maybe they even give a lot in certain areas of their life. But clearly they are taking, clearly they are profoundly selfish, clearly and selfish in really the worst ways, the betrayal of trust, of the person they claim to love the most. Yes. Are they all clinical narcissists in the psychological sense? I can't answer that question. I'm not a psychologist. But are they takers? Yeah. And you know what tends to, you heard me say it before on the show, the only thing that tends to break narcissists is extreme pain, usually extreme pain from extreme loss. And unfortunately, what causes that loss, that, unfortunately, that loss that causes that extreme pain may not be you.

19:49It may be something other than you loss of face, loss of money, loss of apparent, loss of a child, children not want to be around them, or it may never happen. They may just keep on using. All right, next question. I cover all of that and more in my most recent best-seller cheating sucks. Feel free to pick it up on the website. I encourage you to get it. It's an absolutely new take on cheating never before. Literally never before has a book been written by someone who had not only as a 30 year counseling practice, but was cheating on in two adult relationships. I cheated on my first wife back in my 20s. And I was the co-cheater, someone cheating with their own spouse more than once. So I've literally experienced cheating from every side of the cheating triangle. And I've been counseling cheaters and victims of cheating for over 30 years. So there's a unique perspectives there and deep insights. Please get it at badasscouncing.com. It will kick your ass. We're going to take a quick break. Be right back.

20:51So I was telling a buddy of mine how he seems happier. He told me about the book that changed his life. So I bit. I went to the badass counseling website and downloaded. There's a hole in my love cup audio book. I started listening to it on my commute home from work and holy cow. It was a Louisville slugger to the face. I literally sat in my car in the driveway night after night, listening through to the end of a chapter or doing the journaling exercises. My wife started to see changes. I started to change a lot. My default response stopped always being anger. Now I manage a team of salespeople and I changed as a leader. I was listening more, not always just reacting. When their numbers started going up seemingly out of nowhere, I knew what the reason was. There's a hole in my love cup is now required listening for any person on my sales team are working for me and I gladly buy it for them. You gotta listen to this book. This show provides sole counseling intended to entertain and inform and is not medical advice.

21:53Now back to the badass. And we are back with the badass counseling show lightning round. I've got several really zippin questions here lined up. I've got one here from Kate Broca. Kate says my name is Stella. I am 16. You've answered me before and helped me with grief rage anger. Will you do a grief workbook on grief 14s? I had never even considered it, Kate, but I have asked one of our producers to write that down for me to take it into consideration. Thank you for that. I always appreciate hearing from regular listeners on what they are struggling with and suggestions. Writing books is a task. It's a beast. But I love it. So thank you for that input, Kate. I will absolutely take that into account. My girlfriend and I might she's been doing it longer than me, but we have done work with runaway teens and in the gay lesbian community teens and so forth.

22:59We take teen issues very seriously. Thank you for that. Next, Steffi asked the question, do I need to be in a relationship in order to heal from issues I have from being in one? Oh, God no. No. In fact, very often we heal best from past relationships when we're single. In fact, it's the challenge is to learn to be single. The challenge is, in fact, creating that space is what gives us the room to breathe, Steffi. And if and I tell people until you can be alone, you're not ready to be in a relationship because you're so terrified of being alone often. Why? Because what's going on is all those voices when I'm alone, see I'm alone, I must suck, see nobody wants me, all those voices antagonize from within and those messages you were taught to believe about yourself growing up. And until you can flush those voices out and have that sense of, oh, have that sense of peace because you finally down the work to get those voices out, you're not ready to go into a relationship because those voices are going to drive you into shitty

24:02relationships. And those voices are going to keep you in shitty relationships and cause you to tolerate shitty stuff. So no, Steffi, you are right where you should be if you are alone right now, grieving from a past relationship or healing from a past one, you are right in the cat bird seat. So you, no, stay with it, go with that. And once you have mastered being alone, that's a super power because now you're no longer afraid to walk away from a shitty relationship. That's a fucking superpower, especially for a lot of women, especially for a lot of women because so often they'll hold on to shit, right? A lot of guys too, but especially women. So having that super power of, I'm not afraid to be alone. So that means, and that actually leads right into the next question. Bonkville, 26 on TikTok says, how to avoid getting over invested in early dating. Well, think about this. Think about what Steffi just brought up that if I were to heal and I'm not afraid of being alone, then I'm going to be well, more relaxed when dating. But if I need a relationship, damn, I need someone, I got to have someone close, because why? Because when I have someone,

25:06pouring love into my love cup or their mere presence in my life, it soothes, it is a counter message to all those messages inside of me that say, see, you suck, see, you're unlovable, see, you're not good enough, see who you really are, doesn't matter. And those voices attack and they turn and they turn and they turn and they turn, turn, but when I have someone, and the reason it's that breath of relief is because the mere fact that they are here confirms I must be lovable. This is a living breathing counter message. So if I can get those voices out that attack me from them within the ones that de-confirm invalidate my worth, if I can get those out through doing the deep work of, there's a whole amount of love cup, if I can get those messages out of me and and crash that with that cement of those messages that got pressed into me, then I'm not so neurotic in my dating. Now I can sit back and enjoy the process and simultaneously see the beauty and the person and in the relationship and also see, oh, they don't apologize, oh, not good.

26:09Or that's the third time she didn't respond to texts, she kind of doesn't take me seriously. In other words, you're not afraid to see the bad end of good and to call it out. Whereas if, oh, I just got to see the good, I just want to see the good, oh, I got to have this one, I got to have this one. That's when we over invest. That's when we don't call stuff out when it's small. And should folks, if you want calling stuff out when it's small, small stuff becomes big stuff. And that's where you get two years, 10 years, 20 years later. Oh my God, he's such a narcissist. No, he's, yes, maybe, but you also conditioned him to treat you this way because you didn't call it out when it was small. All right, not trying to be a dick, but it's kind of true. All right, Tammy Piper asked this one, I like this one. Why does someone come back to you over and over again, then choose someone else? Anyone else want to handle this question? I got it, but the answer is really simple. Tammy, why does someone come back to you over and over again, then choose someone else? And by come back to you, I'm going to assume you mean for fucking, you know, and for comfort,

27:12and for good cooking and companionship and some yucks, and then choose someone else, the answer is brutal. And it's going to hurt. And I'm not saying it to be a dick. I'm just saying it because it's true. Okay. They do it because they can. That's all. Same reason, bullies, bully. You are being bullied, Tammy. They're doing it because they can. And I'm not trying to be a dick. And it's hard to push someone away when they want you. It feels so nice to be wanted, right? Especially if they have characteristics that you like, whether it's because they're smart or they're funny or they're attractive or they don't on you or whatever it is, it's hard to push that away. It feels nice. It's nice to be wanted. Who doesn't like fucking be unwanted? Well, there are some, but you keep letting them back in and you keep getting squashed and it hurts. And at some point, you got to realize this person just hurts me. But then you also got to realize why do I keep letting them? And that's

28:16because you have some core belief deep inside of you that got embedded in you that says, I got to hold on to any little thing I can get that I'm not wantable. So any little drop of anything that I get from anyone saying that I am wantable, I'm going to cling to it. And that's what you're doing. This person is clearly taking advantage of you. This person doesn't want you. They want the perks you provide to your life to their life. And that hurts, but it's true. Because if they actually wanted you, they wouldn't be treating you this way. All right. Next question. All right, Rob, you got one over on YouTube. I do, Sven. I'll remind our listeners that our show is not medical advice, but do hard things ask? Do you think some people with autoimmune conditions might have those conditions due to trauma? I don't comment on medical issues. I don't. And I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm not a psychologist. I am not a doctor. I'm a sole counselor, former clergyman. And I've had a sole counseling practice for 30 years. I am not even going to touch the origins of autoimmune

29:22diseases. There are books out there on it. Body keeps the score. There's research and study and science. And I would encourage you to research some of those. So I'm not saying it to be a dick. I honestly, I just stay in my lane. But thank you so much. That's an excellent question. If we were having beers, I might have a different, different answer and I might conjecture and blow via an uncrapple of it. I don't know nothing about, but I'm not going to do it here. Just because it's not my field. All right. Next question. I hope that didn't come off as rude at all. I hope I wasn't didn't sound rude. Not at all. I got another quick one here, which you might like. Okay. Go ahead, Rob. All right. Kayla on YouTube asks, and what order does one start with your books to heal? I have childhood trauma, loss of fathers and illnesses. I'm healing from and a rough relationship. Yeah. Start with, if there's cheating involved, start with cheating sucks. Okay. If there's cheating involved, go right to cheating sucks. If there is not cheating involved, go right to there's a hole in my love cup. All right. That's the gold standard for ass kicking.

30:28Cheating sucks is the ass kicker too, but specifically as it relates to whether you're a cheater or cheated on, but there's a hole in my love cup is the gold standard for healing your deepest, ugliest, nastiest, longest standing crud. And then once you've gone through that and done the deepest healing, the sort of daily check-in, check-up, shot in the arm of Sven and of sort of just like finding your badass each day is badass wisdom. And this sequel to that is coming out in November, badass love. All right. Next question. Okay. Na on TikTok asks the question, will cheaters continue to do some other task to avoid taking accountability for their actions? Oh, yeah. They'll do all sorts of other tasks to avoid taking accountability. All sorts of tasks like, oh, I don't know, blaming you, blaming the marriage, blaming the economy, blaming their money, um, fucking working out in a garage, staying out with her friends on the weekend, doing

31:34anything under the sun to avoid taking accountability. Blame Obama, blame Trump, blame, fucking FDR, blame Herbert Hoover, blame anything, anything that will get you to believe. But here's the thing, Na. Here's the thing. You ask the question, will cheaters listen to this, you guys? It's a good question, but there's a question inside the question or there's a revelation inside the question. Will cheaters continue to do some other task to avoid taking accountability for their actions? The mere fact that you are asking that question, Na says that you are wanting them to take accountability. And I talk about this in my book, Cheating Sucks, the biggest vexation, or certainly one of the top two biggest vexations of the victim of cheating, the the spouse, the partner who was cheated on, the biggest vexation or one of the top ones, is that you're wanting the other person to take accountability. And you crave it. And that's why

32:37you try to gather more evidence. You try to get more photos or texts or that's why you become fucking neurotic following them and never trusting them for years, whatever. You want their accountability. You want them to unburden until you every last gory detail, even though you don't want to hear it, you do want to hear it. It's like peeling off a scab when you're sitting in class in eighth grade, and you've got a big raspberry on your arm and you just peel that scab and it hurts, but you so want to do it, right? You don't want it, but you do want it. And the reason you want that accountability is because you want them to come clean. So that the next thing will happen. And the first thing is, it's the acknowledgement of what they've done to you. That's what the coming clean is. That's what the unburdening saying at all. Second, you want them to humble themselves. And them humbling themselves, them showing that this is generally a religious word, contrition, to be contrite. It means to be humbled at a certain solo that you are, the original

33:41Latin is ground down, to be ground down. That's the origin of contrition. And it's not because you want it out of anger. It's because you want them to feel the pain that they have caused you. You want them to feel how much they've hurt you. That's why you're wanting the accountability, not just so you know everything. So you have some peace of understanding what the hell went on, but so that they will understand and feel your pain. And then, then there can be somewhere in you. Part of you desires reconciliation, part of you, part of you, maybe doesn't. So you're hoping for things from them. It's not just accountability. The mere fact that you asking that question, will the cheater forever basically try to avoid accountability? You're wanting the accountability because you're wanting them to set your mind straight on everything that happened, but you're also wanting them to come forth and express and feel your pain. And potentially have a reconciliation. And I can tell you the likelihood of that happen is 5 to 10%.

34:49Most cheaters, first of all, don't reveal everything. They create the illusion of transparency. They'll always withhold something. But more importantly, you're chasing something. And anytime someone has something that I want, they have the power to make me miserable by withholding it. So that means you are giving them power over you. They are giving you are giving them power over your happiness. They own you. You have to heal you. So you get your power back. They are controlling your emotional state, your happiness. And that's not okay. Next question. Nathalie Moen on Facebook asks a question. She opens without true contrition. There will be no real change, no real change. That's actually true. Because to change, to have true change, I need to see what I have done. I need to feel what I have done. Natalie then says, why is them feeling our pain important? You just answered your own question. Because in order to have real change, you want them to change. Why is

35:53them feeling our pain important? It's the same reason I get adult children saying, I want even if my parent never apologizes for the pain they caused. For with a shit, they caused me to believe about myself. Or for neglecting me or for hitting me. Even if they never apologize, even if we never have a tight relationship, I just want them to acknowledge it. Why would they want acknowledgement? Why does the cheater want acknowledgement or the victim of cheating want acknowledgement? Because acknowledgement says, I see you. I see what I have done to you. You are important. You are important enough for me to look at what I have done to you. But my not acknowledging what I have done to you invalidates you. Says nah, you're not important. I'm not going to fucking validate what I did. You're not worth it. It's an invalidation of the person. All right, Rob has got a question

36:57over on YouTube. Go ahead. This is related. And it's sort of the flip side of that same question. The Saul search asks, would it help more with my healing if I apologize for my reactions and my wrongdoing in past relationships? I understand more now why I did what I did. Wait a minute, were you the cheater or the one who has cheated on it? Looks like she was the one who did wrong. Would it help now with her own healing if she apologizes? Sure. Sure wouldn't hurt. I would ask you this question first. Do you want to? Do you want to? Would it feel good to you to get it off your chest? There are some writers out there on cheating who say that it is a selfish act to admit cheating in some situations because you have now put the burden on the other person. They now have to feel the pain that you have caused them. They now have to deal with all these feelings and that in some situations you shouldn't tell them. I'm sorry, I just can't get

37:57on board with that one. I really can't. I'm not even going to indulge there. They've got some interesting hypothesis. You've got a terminal meal spousage that you're tending to and they can't take care of themselves and you're taking care of them. It doesn't help them if you tell them that you cheated on them. I'm still thinking to myself, I'm fucking terminally ill and you're cheating on me. Even if you're taking care of me, I still want to fucking know. I want to know that you're a fucking asshole. I want to see you for who you are. I really do. But that maybe that's just me. And so the question then is, go ahead again, Rob. Would it help more with my own healing if I apologized for my reactions and my wrongdoing in past relationships? I know more now about what I did. I tell you this, do this. Do this as a precursor. Write letters to all the people that you think you want to say that you want to admit to and open up and put it all on the table. Write the very long letters of every single thing you want to say. I'm serious. Then I tell this to clients before

38:59you confront the parent or before you confront your spouse or your adult child or your boss, write a letter, flush everything out. Don't edit it as if you're talking to them. Put everything out there with your full venom or your full love. I mean, don't edit at all because they're never going to see this letter. And I want you to put it all on paper. Okay. And then after you flush it all out like, and if you're not exhausted at the end of it, then you didn't put it all on paper. All right. You held back, put it all out there. See your exhausted at the end. And then a couple days later, a week later, then ask yourself the question, do I want to tell them? And if you still want to tell them, go ahead. But you may find that just getting it out of your system was enough because I always tell people, you don't have to send these letters. I tell clients this all the time, I don't need you to confront any living breathing person. I don't need you to confront them. I don't need you to apologize to them. If you want to, if you choose to confront or choose to apologize

40:00at some point, you can, but you don't have to in order to heal. And so what we do is we go through. We bring it all up and we press it all out. We bring it up and we express, bring it up and we express. We get those trains coming into the station, unload and get them up, get them going out of the station, get those feelings, get all those past memories, all those beliefs, getting those trains going out of the station. And after we got them out of the station, then if you want to go and confront the person or apologize to the person, I say, hey, go for it. Because the truth is you're going to be a hell of a lot calm or anyway when you're doing because you've already discharged all of this emotion behind it anyway. Write those letters first and then decide. This has been another great episode. Rob, any comments? I always learn something and I always find something to identify with. So it's quite life-affirming. Thank you, sir. You and me both. I always learn something. And I really appreciate everyone's questions and inputs. And Kate Brokaw, thank you for your input. I will take that to mind recommending a grief book for teens. Okay, folks, thank you so much.

41:04This has been another great episode of the badass counseling show Lightning Around Q&A. We do this because we believe healing shouldn't take a long time. So whatever you are going through, whether it's loss or rough roads or cheating, whatever it is, dive in, get that shit out of you. Come on, slay your demons and have a kick ass day. The badass counseling show is strictly copyrighted. No copies may be made without the express written consent of the badass counseling show LLC. The badass counseling show is produced by Karen Camparelli and Robert H. Fruudman, executive producer Sven Irmanson, original music by two-time Emmy award-winning composer Trevor Morris. Have a kick ass day.