POST-REDUCTIONIST SCIENCE - Marcelo Gleiser PHD #54

Why is our subjective experiences and cultural context inseparable from our scientific theories and attempts to be objective? Why is it that the more we know, the more we know we don’t know? What does reductionist materialism miss out from the scientific picture and what does a post-reductionist science look like? How can understanding some of materialism’s incompleteness help us face humanity's greatest problems?

In this episode we have the blind spots of enlightenment science to assess; we’re going to be investigating the common belief that science can provide a universal, objective, God-like perspective of the truth of things, independent from our human experience. We’re also going to look at the implications of the consensus in science that all phenomena can be reduced to solely material causes, and what that may be missing out. To assess this we’re going to be looking at data from cosmology, biology, cognitive science and quantum physics and thinking about the assumptions that are so baked in to our western scientific approaches, that we may have forgotten they’re assumptions at all. 

In order to do this we’re going to be speaking to Brazilian professor of theoretical physics at Dartmouth College, Marcelo Gleiser. Marcelo works on a range of topics from Cosmology and information theory, to the history and philosophy of science, and how science and culture interact. He’s also the author of many popular science books including most recently, “the Dawn of Mindful Universe: A manifesto for humanities future” and his new 2024 book which we’ll be focusing on today, “The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience”, Co-authored with astronomer Adam Frank and philosopher Evan Thompson, who will be not he show in the next series.

Gleiser’s also the first South American recipient of the prestigious Templeton Science prize for his standpoint that science, philosophy and spirituality are complementary expressions of humanities deep need to explore the unknown.

I have wanted to speak to Marcelo about the limits of science and a post-reductionist approach to science since he was recommended by my previous guest psychiatrist and brain-hemisphere researcher Dr. Iain McGilchrist in the series one episode “Navigating beyond Materialism”, and I’m extremely glad I followed him up on it.

What we discuss:

00:00 Intro

06:14 Asymmetry is also beautiful. 

11:40 The more you know, the more you know you don’t know.

18:00 ‘Interbeing’ - buddhism and the philosophy of science.

22:00 Bacteria are our ancestors.

23:00 Sacred ancestral knowledge - belonging & gratitude for nature.

30:00 Extremely unlikely chemical steps and extinction events required for life to develop.

35:00 The chances of intelligent technological life on other planets.

37:00 Fine-tuned for life VS the anthropic principle.

50:30 Post-enlightenment sacredness.

52:00 The rise of reductionism. 

01:03:30 Newton was troubled by his theory.

01:08:37 Strongly and weakly emergent phenomena.

01:12:00 Downward or upward causation? Dualism or monism?

01:17:50 Scientific concepts are stories, and stories are simplifications too.

01:21:20 “The Blind Spot: Why science cannot ignore human experience”.

01:26:31 “Sureptitious substitution” of concepts for experiences.

01:28:45 Is consciousness fundamental?

01:42:45 Blindspots in the hard sciences - jumps that are too big.

01:53:30 Marcelo’’s new “The Island of Knowledge’ centre in Tuscany.

Quote:

“Gravity must be caused by an agent, acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the consideration of my readers.” — Sir Isaac Newton (Third letter to Bentley, 25 Feb 1693)

References:

Marcelo Gleiser, “The Blind Spot: How science must take include human experience”.

Marcelo Glesier, “The Dawn of a Mindful Universe”

Aristarchus of Samos - The greek Copernicus

‘The Island of Knowledge’ Centre in Tuscany, Italy