Phasmophobia Getting an Alan Wake II Event

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1:00Hey, everybody. Welcome to Game Mess Mornings with me, Jeff Grubb, your host from giantbomb.com. Thank you for tuning in. In this episode, we're going to be talking about a new console that's only $250, because it's actually an old console, and wrapping up the week with the bomb 12. It's going to be a good one, because we have Ekka from Outer Loop Games here, Ekka. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Jeff. Thanks for being on. It was great to catch up with you at GDC, and to have you on this show now, fantastic. We'll be going over the news, and I'll be definitely picking your brain as someone who's been making games for a while. Actually, you know what? You told me how long. It's been 20 years? 25 years? Someone you've been a developer. It'll be 30 this October. I didn't want to blow you up like that much, but as long as you say it, then it's okay. 30 years. I started when I was four. Yeah, that's all I go with. Man, incredible. Love that. Yeah, that's the way to do it.

2:00You're still young, and you were a child prodigy, and then, yeah, that's the story to tell. Yeah, Ekka, you got Dosa Divas coming out this week. What's it like launching a game in 2026? You've done it several times before. We were just talking. Every time the marketing side changes, what else changes? What else is the same? What should people know? I think it's always exciting, and for me personally, and I'm talking other devs, too. We spent years focusing this kind of energy on this project, and a game takes. For us, it's like two plus years on this one, and there's thousands of decisions every day, and then you hope you're doing the right thing. You have playtests feedback, whatever, but when you launch it, it's like, it's not years anymore. People can have opinions about it, which is great, not great, but it's also for us, when you finish it for me, when I finish a project, I'm like, I need to have, I got to direct that energy somewhere else without it, then I get, I'm sad, because I can't do anything

3:04about this thing that we just spent all this time doing, which is, it took me a while to get used to this, I wouldn't say a depression, but it was like a sadness. Once you're excited, it's like, what do I do with all this energy and focus, and attention that I focus on this one project, and so a couple of your projects back, I started always kind of noodling with something else, so I can just focus on that while the game comes out, and then kind of react to how people are receiving it, fixed stuff, figure out the next patch, and market it somehow, and 26, it's like, try a bunch of different things, and see what sticks, and see what people like about it, and respond to it, and do more of that, hopefully, and that's where we're still trying to figure out, so. Yeah, I mean, it's, you do, like, there seems to be a lot more avenues for telling people about the games these days, and yet, there are so many more games coming out every single year, that number goes up and up and up. I mean, at a certain point, it's like, that's

4:05just the way things are, we have to go deal with this, so we just have to do what's best for this game, do right by the game, and give it its best chance to succeed, and have to ignore what's happening out there in terms of competing in this market. Yeah, I mean, there's, like, trying to pick a release date, you know, it's like, that's always hard. Right. It used to be, it's like, oh, don't release in the wintertime, do it in the spring, or, you know, summer, but that's, there's games every day, especially on Steam, I think too, and on the platforms, I'm, we're on everything, but like, it's trying to mark, you know, things also, like, how early do you market, how late do you market, like, when you start talking about it, people are inundated with so many different things, like, you know, it's like, you have so much time for you can focus, I'm, for me personally, I'm like, I can focus on this thing, then I'm onto something else, so it's just trying to figure all that out. Yeah, I mean, this strategy from, from Outer Loop, you guys seems to have been, like, get, like, work on the next game, and we talked about that at SGF, I think, I'm thinking you have that conversation, so we put out a game, and then we're onto the

5:06next game, we'd like to make games, anything change there, anything learned that gets applied next time around, are you not ready to talk about the next game, because you're putting out a game this week, I can understand, but I ask questions. Oh, yeah, no, we, we have three playable prototypes already. Yeah, okay. That's what it seems like. It always seems to you guys are always percolating on ideas over there. Yeah, and then, you know, I think, go back to your initial question, but what's, what's changed? What's, what's same? I think having the same core team over multiple projects means we can figure any things out quicker or figure out what we like, what we don't like, and what we want to try. We started on our prototype a couple of weeks ago, as we were, like, fixing and getting the ship, and it's like, we're, we've been on Unity, we're trying to learn Gato, which is this other game engine, and we're, we're kind of using that, this project, and it's a small project, it's like a four-player multiplayer game, which we haven't done in a long time. So, we're messing with that as a way to learn the engine, and, and now it's like, hey, we

6:07might continue on this, because it's a shorter, you know, term project, but it's like, it's also allowing us to learn new engine and not be tied to one particular company, like, an Adobe or Unity or whoever, because, like, that's also out of our hands if they decide to go, right, price changes that have happened, or, you know, royalties or other things that are just, like, completely mess up our business as a small indie studio, so it's, like, not being tied to one tool or engine is also a goal for us to go forward. I, um, will say that I was, I've always wanted to ask this question. I think you might have answered, but I want to double-check, it's Gato, not Gato, right? I always thought it was Gato, but people said Gato to me, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Okay. I think everybody, yeah, we've been, we've been saying Gato, so. Okay. I mean, it just, it should be, uh, yeah, I think so. All right. Well, we're going to get on with the show. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Let's explain ourselves. We're a giant bomb. You go to giantbomb.com slash join, you can pick up a premium member.

7:09This supports independent games media, which is what we are. We're out there on our own. We really appreciate all the support to keep doing the stuff that we like to do, the stuff you like us to do. That includes giving you ad free versions of our shows, but also a lot of cool premium stuff, like portal pals, nine lives of Mr. Mustafa Lee's, grubs next premium. I recorded a new one yesterday, that'll be going up today. Uh, thank you, everybody for supporting us. Once again, that's giantbomb.com slash join as far as this show goes. Most weekdays, I, Jeff, grub, will help piece your gaming life back together. That includes breaking news and maybe even some of our own original reporting for all these topics. I'll get the input of a bonafide expert who will make me look smart. If you are watching live on Twitch, welcome. You can always listen to the show later on podcast feeds by searching for game mess mornings or find the RSS feed on giantbomb.com. You can also catch the show later with chapters and timestamps on YouTube. Hello YouTube. All right, we have a lot to get into. So let's start the morning mess with SNK is releasing a modern Neo Geo AES console with

8:14unrivaled authenticity and 70 pound game cartridges. This is from Andy Robinson at VGC play on and SNK are re-releasing the Neo Geo AES console later this year. They released in 1990 and remembered for its strong arcade ports. The new Neo Geo AES, which stands for Advanced Entertainment System, is planned for release this Christmas and promises quote unrivaled authenticity, including full compatibility with original cartridges. Standard and 35th anniversary edition hardware will release on November 12 for $250, $100 A pounds or $200 euros with a roster of game cartridges also due to go on sale for 70 pounds or 80 euros. According to play on the Neo Geo AES plus will come with discrete quality of life upgrades, such as low latency HDMI output, 1080p output, and on screen BIOS and DIP switches located on the bottom of the console, allowing for instant switching of language selection, overclocking the hardware or choosing different display modes.

9:15The console also offers low power consumption and permanently saves gamers high scores for each game. I imagine the reason it's low power consumption is the way that they're making this eka is super interesting. It's not one of these recent FPGA consoles from the likes of analog, which are great. I love them. That is a field programmable gate array chip that's basically a big chip and you could tell it to pave like a smaller older chip. And then there's the emulation boxes, which are just, you know, here's a computer in a box and we're going to use software emulation instead instead of hardware emulation. Both these are great solutions. This is also not that. This is the original chip design hardware just modernized in a new process. So they're just basically remaking what is inside a Neo Geo, doing it in a modern way. So they could probably fit a ton of these on a wafer or something like that. And then they can also get a very low power consumption because things have improved so much over time. So this is a really neat thing they're doing.

10:15It should be very authentic. It's just that console being basically reprinted $250. I'm kind of ready to show up for this thing, backup. And I'm a sucker for these sorts of sort of hardware. What do you think about all this? I mean, I remember, did you remember the original Neo Geo? I mean, I remember reading about it in magazines and being like frightened of the price. It's like one of those ones I would never even have asked my parents to get me ever because it was so expensive. I think I saw it at a KB Toys or whatever it was called back then. And I was like, I was just, just a, well, amazed, I guess, how expensive that thing is. I mean, $600 as a kid in the 90s. That's, that's a, I think, yeah, that's a lot more than it. It's like with, with inflation, that'd be about $1,500 today. So we're actually not that far away from the console prices being that much, but still, it was wild back then. Yeah. And then $200 per game, right? At the time. Yeah. Because they were just, they were basically the arcade games put onto cartridges. And that was wild as well. And that's the other side of this.

11:16They're putting out several of these games onto a new repro carts as well. Reproductions, Metal Slug, The King of Fighters 2002, Garou, Mark of the Wolves, Dig Tournament Golf, Shock Troopers, Samurai Showdown 5, Special, Paul Star, Twinkle Star Sprites, Magician Lord, and over the top. You can, I guess, get all of this in a bundle as well. And they'll just give you everything. And I think the arcade stick, and you know, they'll bundle all of that all up for you and put it out for what is a $1,000 something like that pretty wild. I mean, I'll show up for Samurai Showdown. I spent so much time on that in the arcade. It's such a great game. I just know myself, well, if I buy a piece of hardware like this, I'll probably play it for a little bit, and then I'll forget about it. And I'm like, do I want to do that for $300? Yeah, do I want to do it every single time? One of these comes out, which I might, yeah, but I do. I have that same thought process of like how often am I really going to use this thing? And I did just, I got the Super Station, which is basically the,

12:20the mister from a Taki Udon, the, the YouTuber. And he kind of spruces it up to be basically a PlayStation one. And they're working on software to make it behave more like a console, but it, it's a mister. So I already have Neo Geo on there. And I have all the Neo Geo games I want on a device that I just recently got, and yet this, this is pretty novel, pretty cool. And you're right, like something like Samurai Showdown, having that with the original home hardware would be pretty cool. That game is pretty special. I remember the first time seeing that in the arcade after years of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat and finally getting a look at this game and being like, what is, what is the camera doing? And realizing it's like panning in and out and, and like scanning left and right in a way that just made the, the, the sprites look so dynamic. It stuck with me this entire time walking past that arcade cabinet in the arcade way back in the 90s and just be like, what is that? So, yeah, special games, cool that they are kind of getting this, this amount of love while it's coming from play on, which is an, an, an eraser company.

13:22Have they done anything like this before? And I can't remember if I've seen play on do anything like this before. Oh, have you messed with the, the, the ROG? Well, which one, the, whatever this, yeah Xbox one. I just, I think I, Dan has one and Jurf has one. I, I have not touched it, but I've, I've used the previous ones before they had the Xbox branding on it. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I love our team deck. I travel with it and I was bringing the shows and it's just so handy. But then having something like the Xbox ROG where I can always put Steam games and Windows stuff, I was like, and the screen looks really damn good. And the size is, it feels comfortable and I'm not sure I need anything else because I do see game a lot too. But this is cool. What's a farm factor on this? You know, does it say, I mean, this, this, so they, yes. So they are just basically taking the old Neo Geo home console and making it again, like that, it's just, it's a complete reproduction of that. So it looks like that. And you know, it's, um, the cartridges stick out into the big wicks.

14:22The cartridges, yeah, it might be shrunk down, but it's like, yeah, basically you're going for that original design, I think. Yeah, very, very cool stuff, but I'm with you where when I sit down to play a game, I'm picking up my steam deck. That's, that's how I'm playing games these days. Is this for nostalgia folks to have money now that grew up with this or want? I mean, it's, yes, anything that can extract, I mean, there, I think the strategy across the industry right now is who is playing these kinds of games and also has money, like who's in that Venn diagram and it's older millennials, right? That's, that's who they're going after with this stuff. And it's, it works like this is the kind of thing where, you know, $250 for a piece of hardware right now is a price that is not impulse by, but it's not that far off from the impulse by territory that was once like $50. So yeah, things have changed in their finding ways to capitalize on that. And if as long as we keep getting really cool, like, and as long as it's delivers, right, as long as this is actually going to be quality and people

15:25aren't going to be pulling their hair out because it's falling apart or something like that, if they keep delivering stuff like this, I'm all game for them mining more of these 90s piece of hardware nostalgia. That would be great because they're, if they find an audience, they feel like there was, there is an audience, so they're building it. It's great for the audience, like, you know, you get something niche and something that you, they want or want to try and I'm all for it. Me too. Absolutely. All right. This next story, Pokemon Zelda rip off, pick most, removed from Steam as publisher intervenes. This is from Ali Reynolds at Nintendo life, pick most, which until recently was called pick mom has been unceremoniously removed from Steam following an intervention from its publisher network go developed by pocket game. Pick most is a blatant rip off title copying character designs from the likes of power world, which itself already was copying from Pokemon. This was also copying from Pokemon and a legend of Zelda breath of the wild. Creature design is in particular, in particular, looks a remarkably similar

16:26to the iconic Pokemon while the protagonist in this game is the spinning image of link in breath of the wild. So it seems network go has had quite enough of the controversy, which has been brewing around the game because of all this stuff, confirming that it has removed the game from Steam in a message on Twitter. Hello players. This is the publisher network go. We've heard your feedback regarding the removal of our steam store page and want to clear things up. Network go has officially intervened in the development of pocket game. We will be supervising the pick most team from a player's perspective to ensure the game keeps getting better. Thank you for your support network go doesn't outright state that the reasoning behind the removal is due to the controversy instead claiming that it's helping to ensure the game keeps getting better. It seems clear to us, however, that the publisher wants to get ahead of any potential lawsuits from the likes of Nintendo Nintendo did file a suit against PAL world's development team. So there's only a precedent for that for sure. But yeah, this one seemed like quite a mess because, uh,

17:29you could tell me like the video game industry people making games. Oh, idea is you play a game. You come in the next day, you're like, man, that idea is so good. How can we carry it forward? How can we do something cool with that in our game? And that's something we obviously want. I think the industry has just been better because people riff on other people's ideas. And then there's stuff like this where it's like, I think they're just copying the other game. Uh, how do you feel about this? Like where did you like should the publisher be feeling like they're under assault here a little bit from a controversy like this? Or should they have just like stood up and put the game out anyhow? I while you're mentioning this, I had to look it up. And I was like, oh, okay, it looks just like Link. It looks just like one. I think, you know, we're inspired by games all the time. It's sort of a lot of developers, you know, like for us, like DOSIDIVAS is, you know, like bravely default in Octopath and, you know, Paper Mario, a thousand year door. I think that's like, okay, sort of the, the, the feeling of playing something like that in our sort of our version of it.

18:32But I think there is inspiration in there is like, okay, this looks exactly like this particular character or this particular design, which I'm not really, I don't think it's the same thing. And I know why people are doing this. It's like, oh, you know, there's, we're getting an Nintendo type game on steam, which you can't get a, which I think was the other Pokemon game you mentioned. The Power World, yeah. Power was just that, that kind of, I've seen some other games, yeah, blew up. So, and then they settled, didn't they settle out of court or something? Yes, I believe that's how that went. That sounds right to me. Yes. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm not a, as a game designer developer. I do, I don't like rip and stuff off directly like this. Like, I don't see the point. If we're spending all this time making a game, it still takes, even if you're copying something, it still takes a lot of time to put it together. If I'm going to spend my time making a game, I won't make something that feels fresh, hopefully.

19:32So, yep, exactly. It's a, you know, this is not a steam stepping in necessarily. This is not even a Nintendo stepping up. This is just a community driven sort of being like, what are you guys doing over there? And then the publisher feeling the heat, which is, you know, maybe the way that that's just criticism, right? That's people criticizing it and, and then them feeling kind of ashamed that that's what they're doing and pulling back on it a little bit, which is probably the way it should work. Interesting to see what will happen next with that or if that game comes back in any state that looks like it did in those trailers where yeah, people are like, that's just link on a charizard. Yeah, that looks exactly the same. That's pretty wild. I mean, it is interesting copying two different games that are really hard to make by themselves. I mean, also as a developer, I'm like, okay, are you going to, like, people expecting two different genres matched together and that's, that's also making it very difficult for yourself. Like, yeah, I mean, that's a lot of these games, though, are just like, here's every genre in a game, which is always like, yeah, I mean, in how world

20:33it worked a little bit. So we'll see. Yeah, can't I win a chat like points out like a pro pro of nothing. Remember when Sega straight up copied Spider-Man Batman and Terminator for Shinobi. Yeah, I do. And that was a lot of fun. Yeah, they, they don't do that anymore. I love the other games. Oh, yeah, for sure. That new Shinobi was really great as well. Okay, let's keep, let's get to this next story before we take our break. Forza Horizon 6 is set to have a better launch than any of its predecessors. This is from Jonas Mackie, a game reactor. As you know, 2005's Forza Motorsport marked the beginning of the Forza series and it was popular right from the start. Though not yet a massive franchise. However, when it expanded with the spin off Forza Horizon in 2012, things really took off today. It's Horizon that defines Forza as a brand and Forza Horizon 5 reached over 50 million players. Last autumn, despite this incredible success, the analytics firm, Alinea, partner, oh, excuse me, Alinea analytics now expects Forza Horizon 6 to get off to an even better start this time. The journey takes us to Japan, where a cross section of the country has been

21:35recreated with plenty of iconic landmarks, massive cities, villages, and temples to drive around. This is clearly appealing as they write our estimates show that Forza Horizon 6 has already raced past 500,000 copies on steam over a month before launch. So pre-orders are coming in and this is, we did see something similar with Forza Horizon 1, where apparently in that early access period where you could play it a week early and get the F bonus stuff if you're willing to pay $100, or if you have the game pass, if you're willing to pay like 40 bucks on top of like what you're already paying from game pass, it sold like a million copies in that time frame. I was like, hey, at a certain point, they got to give things up a little bit and you're going to get diminishing returns. That doesn't seem to be happening here. And it's probably a big part of that is people have been waiting for this game to go to Japan and seeing that setting. So I know any excitement from you about Forza Horizon, it's a series I like quite a bit, but I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this one.

22:36Oh, I do too. I love five. And I think I two Horizon, I only, I think maybe I started for playing on four and then five was where I really spent a lot of time. My older son, two boys and he loves it too. We talked about it. It's, it's just, the setup is like, remember the burn out series, Paradise City, right? Yes, of course. Yeah. But like that setup is just like driving around and getting into, in and out of things. I just, the, the, the scope of it and the presentation of it is great. I think last one was in Mexico, wasn't it? Yes, the last one was in Mexico and it looked fantastic. It looks fantastic. And then the way, you know, just all the different things you can do running around, it just, it definitely, I'm, I'm excited for it. The, the thing I'm curious about is, I don't know anything about Microsoft publishing and the internal team. Is this like, if Alina analytics is saying they expected to do well,

23:38if it doesn't do hit numbers, is that like a, I'm, I'm curious at a team this size or when it's a first party title, what, what is success for them? Because I think it's a much, much higher. Oh, yes. Number then, then we probably think like, is 500,000 copies good? Are they expecting two million copies? Like, I mean, 500,000, I think this is 500,000. Already sold on steam. I think that's what I think that's what he's saying, which is, that's crazy before the game's even out. Cause then once it's out, it's what it's going to skyrocket. But you're right. Like, they have diminished the importance of, of sorts of motorsport and turn 10 has sort of been like kind of wound down a little bit. And that means there's some more pressure on horizon for sure, because that's now the main star over there. It is like, it is really the standout star for the recent strategy of, let's put games out on PlayStation. Apparently it's sold like five million copies on PlayStation or something crazy like that. So yeah, this has got to continue that success and then, and then grow to your

24:39point. So we'll do that. You know, it's, I think this one stands every chance of, of doing everything that Microsoft and everyone involved wants it to do. The question will be like, what's the future of Forza after that? But they have loved some time to figure that out if this game is succeeding that much. This is developed by Playgrounder and Vancouver, I think this is Playground. Yes, Playground and they have this and then they should have fable coming as well this year. So well, we've got a couple of games back to back. And yeah, that's, that's going to be impressive to see. That's, that is the kind of thing where man, that studio has a lot writing on those two this year. And I'm looking forward to see on both get received. All right. So we're going to take a break. Plenty of headlines to get into after this. We're going to go check out a trailer for dosa divas right now. Everybody, if you want to skip out on this jibob.com slash join become a premium member to get our ad free versions of our shows. In the meantime, though, we will be right back. When I first heard the words, you have lung cancer. I was in shock. This week on a special episode of Health Discovered, we're taking a closer

25:43look at a common formal lung cancer that accounts for 85% of all cases. I'm Janet Freeman daily and I've been living with non-small cell lung cancer since 2011. Non-small cell lung cancer. It's a diagnosis that changes everything. And yet the conversation around it too often stops at the biology and misses what patients are actually living through every single day. There's something you used to be able to do that you can't do anymore. It's easy to become depressed when you're dealing with all those losses. So mental health plays a really big role. So what does it really mean to advocate for yourself when you're living with non-small cell lung cancer? Listen to Health Discovered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's tax season. And by now, I know we're all a bit tired of numbers. But here's an important one you need to hear, $16 billion.

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27:44real cash prizes. Right now, $30 coin packs are on sale for $10 for new users. It's all at spinquest.com. That's S P I N Q U E S T dot com. SpinQuest is a free to play social casino. Boyd were prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. We're back game this morning's that's echo on grub. Let's get back into the headlines with Phasmophobia limited time event. Phasmophobia by Alan Wake announced. This is from Sal Romano at Gamatsu. Kinetic games has announced Phasmophobia limited time event. Phasmophobia by Alan Wake, which will bring the world of Alan Wake to into the cooperative psychological horror game. It will launch on May 12th. The crossover event introduces a new presence that leads into familiar locations shifts in the shadows and twist investigations and ways. Ghost Hunters have never encountered before. There are many fans of this is a quote now. There are many fans of Phasmophobia at remedies.

28:46So it was a thrilling opportunity to bring these two horror get worlds together in this dream or rather nightmare collaboration says remedy entertainment creative director. Sam Lake and a press release. It was a joy to write this are two twisted worlds amplify each other perfectly and then kinetic game CEO Daniel Knight added a lot of the same sort of platitudes and this is fun to do. It's out May 12th. As I said, echo, I would ask you, man, these partnerships between developers of all kinds of scales or you just see it all the time. How do these sort of things like happen or is there something that you're looking at ever like the head? Can we get our characters into your game vice versa? Is that like trading points or whatever? How does it all work? And we talked about, you know, how do you market a game or yeah, get an audience to look at your game? I think this is a great match up with like two different, you know, similar genre games, very different games, right? Like, right. Phasmophobia is massive, massive game, right? Like I don't know how big the team is, but it's been a blew up and it's been

29:48going for a long time. So I think it's, it's great to see something like Alan Wake mixed in there. So I think it's, it's beneficial for both parties here. Like Remedy gets to, didn't they make a multiplayer control or some Yeah, they made up a fire break or something. Yeah, camera break exactly name that, that is, that's winding down. Yes, yeah. I mean, and like for us, we're working with the outer slot, they're among us folks, right? Like they funded our project, which is like, okay, being, you know, they're, I love that because it's so hard to try and get publishing or funding right now. And like these guys, Phasmophobia folks and a bunch of other teams are also like collaborating with other teams and or helping people out with things. And we're talking to folks all the time. And like we also have a couple of bundles we did on launch for, you know, CS in, in stars and time and, you know, with Anna Perner, our last publisher. So we're like, finding ways to work with developers.

30:49I think it's great. It's another avenue in a way to introduce a fan base to something that they might like and didn't know about. Yeah, it seems to me like the, that publishing landscape, the way to navigate it right now is to kind of partner it with people who are just into games as much as you are. Like obviously it's all business. And obviously everyone wants to be making, like takes the money we have now, put it into something else. So we make more money, obviously that's what everyone wants. But it seems like to get like a decent publishing deal. You have to work with people who have been in your situation before and understand it and have empathy for what you're going to be going through trying to make a game. Is that, I mean, I know that it's outer sloth, right? That is a team that does get that. But is there a lot of that stuff out there for other developers? And, and, and for people to try to navigate this, this kind of tough publishing space at the moment? Yeah, I think, you know, the market's tough, but there are games that are blowing up, like, right?

31:49You're playing to slay this fire, right? Two, for example, that just blew up. It's huge, huge. Yeah, yeah, and, and those guys are also, you know, supporting some of the outer sloth teams as well. And so I love seeing that. I love seeing these developers that are doing well and want to and know what it felt like when it was, you know, harder on various projects. Some projects, most projects don't do great. So being able to support somebody else that's in a position that they've a project they believe in. I think that's awesome. Yeah, I want to see more of that for sure. Yeah, definitely. And I think like, you know, the video gaming is kind of a small community, whether you talk about the people like covering the games on our side or making games, it seems like everyone knows each other. And I think at the end of the day, when people have success, they want to spread that out a little bit and do their best to make sure everyone could kind of get a piece of it. So hopefully we do get a lot more of it and get on the other side of some of these weird corporations tainting the space. All right, up next Sony's MIA live service game is going in the exact

32:53direction you'd expect. I guess this is from Eddie McCook at GameSpot. New details have come to light regarding Sony's upcoming multiplayer live service game fair games, including information about one of its game modes and its reported business model when fair games was announced in 2023. Sony called it a competitive heist experience. And now insider gaming has reported details on one of its game modes, Cargo Heist. This will reportedly play out in three phases, including break in, which has players looking for a vault code and collecting cash to upgrade their skill set. And the next phase drill players will get inside the vault and fight to collect the cargo. The third phase is extract, which player has players carrying the cargo to an extraction site. Fair games could have other modes, but only cargo Heist was detailed in the report. Some are saying this description gives off marathon vibes, which itself is an extraction based game. Also in the report, it's mentioned that fair games will be free to play. And it will use micro transactions to make money, of course. It was also reported that the game's next play test is coming up this

33:56weekend, but it's not open to the public. A number of key developers at fair game studio Haven have left the company since the game was announced, including Haven founder, founder Jade Raymond, and the games director, Daniel Drapeau, it was reported in May 2025 that fair games was delayed to 2026 after a play test proved unfavorable. Yeah, I mean, man, so another one that has at least extraction elements, you know, the whole idea with this live service space, that seems to me to be like, Hey, if we do hit, it's going to hit big. And so we just need to find the right combination of ingredients to get keep people, to get people hooked right away and keep them coming back and make it a hangout space for their friends. And once we do that, then this is a thing that can just make money for years and years and years. It's easier said than done though, right? Like being able to put together those ingredients. If you were in this situation, it's like really what other buzzword other than extraction is there to go to right now to get like publishers excited?

34:57Is this the, is this kind of the circumstance of the studios got to put something together that is going to make Sony excited? So they kind of have to be able to say, Hey, look at what these other games are doing. Maybe we can do that. And that's what led to this description of the game. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, Haven, are they owned by Sony? I remember, yeah. So like, I mean, I think there was like a initiative, right? In early 2020s of like, there's a talk of that was blowing up. I talk, talk off in the hunt, the hunt, right? So, and I see this all the time and over the years, like whether it's MMOs or the forever games, I think this is just sort of like a evolution of forever games. Like extraction is what people want. And but then if it takes five, six years to make one of these things, the audience might already moved on to the next thing. And I, and there's so many forever games that you're willing to play, right? Like where your friends are. And I think that's like the same kind of the MMO problem too is like,

35:57it's going to be one or two that's going to do well and everything else. People are going to try and bounce off. And so you've already spent millions and millions and getting to market where they may not be an audience or the sort of, like, I don't know how marathon's doing. I don't, it's not a game I play. But it's got great word of mouth, but it's maybe not so in the way that they, that a bunch of needs of game to sell is kind of my understanding. Yeah. And on the opposite. And I think this is why a friend slot games are doing well because there is no commitment. You just go in, get in really quick, hang out with your friends and you're out. There is no big meta or to need to build up, you know, buy a, you know, a season pass kind of thing or I think that's, that's also interesting from, you know, scale of us, our projects, you know, we're like 14 folks on a, on a bigger project or something like we're prototyping with three people, like, we're not going to make an extraction shooter. Like there's, it's not a thing that we're into, but also like the sort of the, the, if you're trying to compete against marathon, there's expectations from the player,

36:59right? Like the quality of it. Yeah. The amount of content and the amount of updates. That's a, that's a live service team, which is if you're doing, excuse me, something like a marathon or a destiny, that's multiple teams that happen to work around the clock to like release new weapons. So the other teams working on the next thing. And that's, I don't know. That's, that's a lot. I, I, yeah, big commitment. I almost wish some of these big teams would try to get to like almost a pro type quicker and then see you. Yeah. There's a thing for it, but it's, I think it's, it's two things. There's like old way of development, but that's, that's gone from three years to five to seven now. And the market's changing all the time. And so they're, we're seeing a lot of these projects canceled or they show up in no one's, no one plays. Yeah. I have no idea. You make the decisions as a, like, it's like a Sony or, you know, somebody publisher and, um, and the market changes under the ground shifts from underneath your feet. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, I mean, you know, even with a perfect insight into what

38:04people want, right? Because, uh, chap pointed out, this could also just very much be a payday like, which was also very, very successful as payday two, right? Chat that was really popped off. And then they, that team followed it up with payday three. And the community didn't migrate to that. It, it has been sort of a mess. Since then, I think payday two still has more players. Uh, and again, I could be getting some of those details wrong, but that's generally what happened there. And it's like, yeah, those, though, that's the people that, the team that would have the most insights into what works and what doesn't from a genre like that. And for even them, it's a struggle to like understand how to get a community to move on to the next thing or get them to shift their interest or to appeal to them in a different way. And so yeah, it's a challenge. And, uh, it really does feel like a lottery ticket a lot of the times. And you're like, like, what would be the solution more frequent, uh, prototyping something along those lines, but that's not the business that Sony's in. So they're going to keep doing stuff like this. I'm surprised we're still hearing about fair games.

39:05Sony did do a calling recently. They canceled some other stuff, uh, but this one might still sneak through. Uh, they must believe in, believe it into some extent. And I get it because payday is one of those ones very popular. Uh, but it's, it does not feel like that genre has had its fortnight moment where it just got opened up to everybody and, uh, like everyone in their little brother was playing. And so people, Sony looks at them, like, maybe we could do that for this genre. Uh, but fair games, I don't know, we haven't seen it. So we're going to have to see for ourselves at some point when that reappears, whether or not it has the juice to pull that off. Is this the modern, like, is this like, is this heat as payday is essentially the movie heat, you know, as a fantasy, right? Like plan going right extract. Fair games was definitely like the more fortnight take on that. I was trying to remember exactly, but I'm going to take a look at a screenshot real quick. That's my, like, immediate response. I think they were trying to, like, play it up and make it more stylized and stuff like that. You know, uh, it has a lot of those, like, colorful, smoke cloud grenades, where it's like, here's the pink grenades being set

40:07off. And now there's a cloud of pink smoke. And like, they're doing that for a stylized effect, but also that's a gameplay service as well. Yeah. I stopped playing shooters a long time ago. I'm not just, I don't know, I just feel like there's, it's such a mind space, unless you're doing something different with it. Like, I don't know. Oh, yeah. It's just not yeah. A lot of space for me. Uh, I rather play something else. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a red ocean for sure, where it's like, yeah, there's just not a lot of, I mean, you got to really come with something. I mean, that's the real trouble for a company like Sony, right? Is like, you talked about the seven year development cycle that we found ourselves, uh, moving into. And there's just a couple of things you can do at the beginning of a seven year development cycle to make sure your game is going to be set apart and be able to stand out in the marketplace all those years later. And it's to make the most expensive thing possible to make something that just looks stunning. That's the one guarantee you have. And that that has caused cost to just keep going up and up and up. And it becomes unsustainable. Uh, all right. Assessants Creed, Black flag, recent reportedly drops anchored this July. This is from

41:09Levi Winslow at GameSpot. It seems the rumors may be real. After all, the Assessants Creed 4 remake will reportedly launch on July 9th. Uh, talked about this a bunch just feels like, is this thing actually ever going to happen? Uh, it was supposed to happen earlier this year. And then it didn't. Uh, now we just have a new date for that. Um, do you think a lot of games, I mean, obviously Ubisoft has their own problems are a lot of dates still moving around because of Grand Theft Auto 6. I know you were talking about picking a date. And I'm sure it's like more than just any one game. Obviously, uh, but yeah, nailing down a release date for a game like this or any game. What does go into that? I mean, I, I don't know what it's like at a, at a game this size. You know, right. Um, I haven't worked in AAA and like, since shiny entertainment days, enter the matrix path in the PS2 era, right? Like real games. Yeah. I mean, I'm really curious for, I think for what goes into this kind of thing. It's probably, uh, quarterly earnings when they need to have to

42:09ship it, where the money is coming from, where do you think the, um, stock price isn't Ubisoft isn't, aren't they hurting right now with? Yeah. So Ubisoft's hurting in a lot of ways. Yeah. They got that, that's spinoff part of their company that's still Ubisoft, but 10 cents involved. But it's just making a handful of the big pillar games. And then there's a lot of questions remaining about all these other franchises. They just, um, most recently, they delayed all of their games, including this one, but everything that was supposed to come out this year announced and unannounced got delayed. And then six other projects got canceled. Um, and it's like, yes, so that that is one of the questions. It's like, oh, they didn't, didn't seem like they were going to have anything this year. This is them sort of restarting things and be like, okay, we've taken our breather. We've, uh, once again, made our appeal to investors, not to abandon ship. We're going to start putting games out again. And this will be the first one of those. And then the question will be like, will they have anything to follow that up with this year? But yeah, this is the one that, that, you know, we'll probably do all right. Because people really do like Assassin's Creed four. And, um, it's been what, 13, 12 to 13 years since that

43:13game came out. So I guess yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I know. That's right. I guess remastered Xbox one launch. Yeah. Remastered would be, I think it makes sense if they spend all this time, you know, having building those assets, like refactoring into a new story is a lot easier than rebuilding the whole world. I'm assuming they're uprising and whatever else they're doing to make it feel more modern. But, um, yeah, I enjoyed that. The sort of the pace of that game. Yeah, me too. And it's, uh, yeah, this is one of those ones where like it's probably pretty cost effective for sure. They have, um, you know, other ways that it feels like you'd be soft as starting to like come out of this, this most recent stupor is the talks of reuniting the team that made Prince of Persia, uh, the lost crown. Yeah, okay. I'll believe all this when I see it, uh, they do have to kind of get their head out of their ass a little bit over there. Because it has just been such a mess. And the, all the headlines have been, here's how we're laying people off and here's how we're reorganizing. It's okay. Yeah. Well, when you're going to, like, the people

44:14that you still have employed, the thousands and thousands of people who could be making cool stuff, when are you going to unleash them and start putting cool stuff out again? This is the very beginning of that. I don't think is a Ubisoft leadership, which has not changed is going to lead to much differences and to the actual results for that company. So they'll probably be right back here in a year or two once again. A conflict. Oh, right. Oh, go ahead. What's that? Uh, public companies and making games, I think are just indirect conflict with each other. Like, it's just, I guess it's not a, I don't know, it's not like a widget. You can just crank out every quarter. Like, every game has problems. Teams are different and market changes. It's like, I don't know. I think it's, it's a lot of these games and teams suffer in the long run, right? Because publishers or the public companies make decisions for the short term quarter needs. And that's why you see these games that were doing well or, you know, a lot of these games were new games and

45:17new IPs that they tried out. And it took a while for that to blow up. And if you're not doing that, things are going to get stay on people. Audience doesn't want the same thing every year. As you see with all these big franchises that are other than sports titles, there's no, there's no alternatives for a madden or a 2k, right? Like, the players are going to play it. They'll show up. They're not going to be happy about it. But some of these other games, there's a lot of options, especially these days. Like, yeah. And then once people, once people like sort of exit out of that, it's really hard to get them back, get them excited again for sure. But yeah, I mean, this making video games was a space that was not maybe not primarily, but did happen often in groges and small developers all around the world. And corporations just slowly position themselves in between all of the cool art being made and the people spending the money. And they're like, we're going to get our action on this. And they just have brought nothing.

46:17They feel like they've brought nothing to the party and have just been a drag. And now they, I think they are starting to wake up to that reality, what you said of how they are in direct opposition to getting games made. And they're starting to be like, wait, what are we doing here? Because maybe we can't, maybe there's a ceiling for what we can make from this. And they're in the process of like decoupling and it's leaving an absolute trash fire in its wake in this industry. And it's like, oh, we're going to have to sort of repair ourselves because these companies aren't going to figure it out. Of course, they're not. No. All right, last couple of stories here. Slay the Spire 2 is getting review bombed all over again after it's latest update. This is from Lewis Parker at Kotaku for the second time in the last 30 days. Slay the Spire 2 is getting review bombed on steam. As of this rating, 3,609 negative reviews have been levied against the game in the past 12 hours. And once again, the overwhelming majority of the negative reviews are from accounts based in China. So you guys might be wondering, what's going on here? How did they offend the Chinese people? You know, there's some cultural stuff. Did you put skeletons in the game?

47:19Turns out, Chinese people don't care about that all that much. That's a government thing. So what happened is the game just changed a little bit. It had some changes to its balance. But the interesting thing, I'm just learning about this in Echo. Maybe you know more. Maybe this is new to you as well. I don't know. But apparently because of the crackdown on social media in China and people who make games not being on the social media platforms that they do use in China, the one way that they feel that they have to make their voices heard is through steam reviews. So they go on to steam and post their stuff on there to get noticed as, hey, I'm frustrated. Please hear me. And it does get a response. So that has spread and people keep doing it. Is this something you've heard other developers talking about? How do you deal with this? Because obviously it's like, this is just how they feel. And you can't control user reviews. So yeah, well, how do you feel about all this, Echo? Yeah. I think this is like the spirit team on the first one and on this. They do weekly updates. That is wild to me. Like, if you're going to release it every seven days,

48:21I mean, you're building it for three, four or five days and then you're testing it and you're releasing it. And that's like, that's, that is a hard cadence. Yeah. Very difficult. And then, of course, and then, yeah, the reviews as a way to communicate, I get that. But it's also just very disheartening as a developer as you're, yeah. What can you do about that? It's, it's an early access. Like, we're not, they're not charging you more money to, for these updates. And it's like, uh, that's, that's rough. And then do you only? I don't think Slayer Spire one would have been made if players had a say during development because I'm a player. I don't know what I want. Like, I know what I'm late. I know what I would press. I mean, that's it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I don't know. I feel like I would give them a little bit of credit. The developers, they've, they've, they've made one of the best games that were made. Uh, Slayer Spire in two seems like it just is amazing. And it's got co-op to you right. And yep. Um, so this is, this is rough,

49:24but I also understand from a Chinese players perspective, there's no other way to, for them to give feedback. Yeah. I hope they, I hope they, what it comes out of this is find some way to give feedback in a different way. That isn't review bombing because reviews, those negative reviews are just, it really hurt. It's damaging. Yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, I, um, right. And it's like, Oh, now it's going to be up to the studio over there. mega crit, right? Uh, okay. We'll give you an avenue to yell at us directly. Please don't do it on steam reviews, but it's again, hard to change people's behaviors. And this is what's happening. It's going to be probably uphill battle to get around this. Now, there's some stuff built in the steam to mitigate the effects of stuff like this, right? Where you, they do kind of surface reviews in your language. First, primarily, I'm, I'm not exactly sure how that works, but they definitely have considered issues like this. They're, the solutions don't seem perfect for sure, but they are at least aware of that, the, the, the, the way that people use reviews in all kinds of ways

50:26that isn't necessarily in line with the spirit of tell people what you think about this game, so you can give them a buying guidance or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I'm filtered in English, looking at the site, and it's, it's the reviews are done in English too. Yeah. So it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. There was a, I know, steam, they'll update their policies and change some of this stuff. I know some games that review bomb for quote, unquote, will content, right? Like nothing to do with the game. It is just like, it doesn't rhyme with my, my beliefs. And then I'm going to, if I can review bomb it. And so I think there are some safeguards against this, but in this case, if it's like game play related, I don't know, the steam knows the difference, right? Unless, you know, mega hit talks to somebody there, but a lot of the stuff is so automated now because not it, there's too many games, right? And too many reviews and too many players. So it has to be some sort of automated ways to handling some of the stuff. Absolutely. All right. The last story here, David Leach,

51:28is 100% confident that the Netflix Gears of War movie will be made. This has been Lions at Game Reactor. This year is set to be a very big and exciting one for Gears of War fans as the coalition will be delivering a new chapter in the series, a prequel that actually explores the events before the first title. It's known as Gears of War E Day. And we'll get to meet it in greater depth rather soon as part of the dedicated direct showcase following the Xbox Games showcase in the summer. But this is just part of the Gears of War plan that plans that are ultimately in place as for a long while Netflix and Xbox have been collaborating in an effort to adapt Gears of War into a feature length flick. Little has come of this so far other than the fall guy and bullet trains David Leach being attached as director. Speaking about about Leach in a recent interview with Collider, the director spoke a little bit about Gears of War said, I think this is going to happen. We have a great draft in progress. That's in really great shape. The studios more determined than ever to make it. Netflix is 100% behind it. The coalition is fired up as well. They have their

52:29game releasing this year as well. So it's all lining up that the movie will be happening. Yeah, maybe we'll see. I mean, I think we're at a point where a video game movie adaptations have been doing better and better and better. So obviously the people who are motivated by success will see that and make it more likely that this movie will come out. I wanted to ask you at a slightly different question. There was a time a few years back where it was probably more than that where like the streaming wars were happening in earnest. And it seemed like every game was getting a talk to about a potential show on like prime video for children. Is that something that like ever like you ever graced up against anything you've ever had any involvement with or conversations about? Oh, yeah. I mean, we've had those conversations come up on. I mean, we did that with thirsty. We had like prepared a treatment. Having done two, three IP based games based on films or movies in the past, I think it's gotten a lot better where the folks that are making these

53:33decisions grew up with the games and understand why, you know, instead of trying to match a movie, like the game plays different, right? You have the player. So make an interesting story in that franchise or that world the players would appreciate. Or in the case of Gears, you know, make a story in that world that feels like it's a homage to the to the game itself. I haven't played a recent gear. So I don't know like what it's like. I played the first two and I loved them. I just curious about like what is the draw and who would play Phoenix or Marcus? Right. Yeah. I'm Patista. Probably he played his character in the recent game. Maybe that he would like to make that happen, but I don't know. Good question. Get Alan Richardson or whatever. Oh, yeah. Get a big boy. I love Richard. Yeah. Of course. I'm kicking his neighbor's ass.

54:37I mean, I can't move seconds or loud, but that was a dumb ass thing to do to have guy from Richard. I'll say to answer your question a little bit more. I always assume none of this stuff is going to ever fan out. Like even for something as massive as like Uncharted, right? It took years and years for that to get into the theaters. The economics of games can be tough, but I think film is way worse. So I like, yeah, be interesting. I don't ever assume like I'll have the meetings and we'll talk about it or do a treatment, but I just assume it's not really our primary focus. And if it happens great, if it doesn't, I you know, most like most of the times it's not going to happen. It's it's so on a whim, right? Because it's like those companies, they are chasing trends just like gaming companies and and yeah, that they might have the wind in their cell so much that they have started these conversations. What does that ever turn into? I mean, like I said, that tons of these conversations years back with all kinds of developers of every scale indie

55:39developers were getting talked. I mean, double fine had a costume quest show on prime video. Like that happened and it's like that. Yeah, right. I don't think it had a ton of episodes. It's like, that's the kind of thing that manifests from those conversations and then we don't get a ton of other ones actually coming to fruition. I like the last Mortal Kombat movie, dude. I'm looking forward to the new one. I just watch half of it and I just really didn't like the OC. I think this new one looks awesome though. So I'm I'm pretty excited about it. I saw this true fighter. What do you think? I like this dude. I like it. I was ready to hate it, but I'm like, too. This is fun. Yeah. I'm in it. I'm I'm all in it. I thought it was just really fun. It's the exact right way to put it. And you know, very over the top with the references, kind of nonstop in the trailer, but I expect that now that may especially after Mario has proven that that's just going to make a lot of money. So yeah, do that, but then make it really stupid and fun as well. And I think they're doing all of it. So very excited. Speaking of Mario, we saw it last weekend, last weekend. It was a lot of Seattle Indies rented out of theater. So it was a maker.

56:42Folks. It was the peak folks. Agar crab sent some other local Indies and brought my both my boys came with me and we all just it was a great way to see Mario with a bunch of devs. That's really. And we're all screaming at the screen and like, look at all the references in that. Huh? It's probably not as great of a movie, but we had a I loved it. That sounds like a great time. Again, I think it's a good time at the movies. I don't like the movie itself, whatever, but it's a good time at the theater. All right, that does it for the headlines everybody. We got plenty more to do though on this show. We're going to get to the poll question from yesterday. Right now, let's do that first. I have the results over here somewhere. I'm going to refresh though and make sure that I am caught up to date. Here it is. Are you excited for the Street Fighter movie? Yes or no? I am. And so our 41% of respondents, 59% say no. They have, uh, look, that early trailer was doing a lot. So I can, I don't blame people for being like, what is this?

57:42I hope they're able to win people over though. Just be so over the top that the movie can do very well. All right. Well, no new poll question because it's Friday. So we're going to wrap up the week in this episode with the bomb 12. We'll do that here in a moment before we get to it though. Echo one more time. Why don't you tell people where they can find you on the internet, what you have going on. Tell them about the game. Go ahead. Yeah. So we released Dosa Divas this week. It's on Steam and Switch Switch 2 Xbox PlayStation 5. It's a turn-based combat RPG. All themed around cooking. It's got like active combats if you like. Expedition is a thing that people have played. I'm assuming so or Mario RPG. We're very much Mario RPG inspired and that's out on everything. It's on sale right now and we're on Blue Sky mostly. So Echo Not or Outer Loop games out there and on YouTube and TikTok and on Insta. So fantastic. Awesome. Thank you so much. Let's

58:46see here. We have like I said, no new poll question, but we do have plenty of other stuff happening on giant bomb today. We have UPF. If you go and watch us today, we are going to be playing scam line. This is a weird social deduction game where you can only talk to the other people in the room with you if you call them on the phone and you have to share information and that's about all I know. But we're going to try it out and see how it goes. So that'll be happening. That'll be fun. There's all kinds of other stuff happening on the site. We did put up a new portal pals this week. So watch Mike and Mary try to figure out portal two together. That's a really good time. And then a new episode of Nine Lives of Mr. Mr. Mustafa's should pop off next week. So get subscribed. Check that stuff out. It's good. All right. I think with all that out of the way what we should do is the bomb 12 everybody. These are the 12 games that really matter to people who are really playing games. We got we got your responses. We collated them. We tallied them up.

59:47And here are the 12 games started with number 12 replaced. Kind of peeking its way onto the chart. Number 11 is people of notes. Number 10 dosa divas. There you go. Number nine is Tomadachi life living the dream. I'll say all those last four games I think all came out in the last weekish or so. Everything in the first week kind of like bubbles up a little bit. The next week is when we'll see the real results for all these everybody. Number eight is Starfield. Number seven is Pokemon Champions. Number six is Pragmada. Pragmada. I don't know how my quince me to say I'm going to say Pragmada until I actually play the game. Number five is Hades 2. Number four is Slay the Spire. In fact four through one you're going to hear it's very familiar to last week everybody. So number four was Slay the Spire 2. Number three Pokemon Pacopia. Number two is Crimson Desert. And once again number one is Marathon. People people like that game. Then a lot of people continue to play that Crimson Desert. Ampacopia and absolutely the Spire 2 for the last several weeks. I bet Pragmada is

1:00:48going to be able to break into the top four next week. We'll see what happens though. It's coming out next week, right? It comes out today. It's out today. Okay. Yes. So people just started playing it and we kind of closed down voting last night. So there's just a couple of people who trickled in there and they rushed to number six. All right. Let's see. That does it for the bomb 12. This week we'll have a new bomb 12 next Friday. If you want to submit your game for consideration to be you know, tallied with the rest of the votes, go to giantbomb.com. If you scroll down you'll find the bomb 12 from last week and then over on the left there's a vote here tab. Click on that. It'll take you to the form where you could submit your game. All right. With all that out of the way, I think what we do now is say, heck, thank you so much for hanging out with me today and talking about video games, man. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on here. It's been really fun. Thank you. Absolutely. We'll make it happen again. We'd love to. Thank you everybody for watching and listening. You are the best audience in gaming. Until next time, have a good one. Take care of yourself. And goodbye.

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