Patrick Seaton on Organizational Positioning Guide on Innovative Management Tools Radio Show with Peter Mingils

0:00Welcome to Building Fortunes Radio. Make sure you check us out at buildingfortunesradio.com. Along with Kisk, our keep it simple circle marketing partners, we are here to help our humongous AM and humongous FM radio customers build their businesses and make the world a better place. As Building Fortunes Radio, we know how much your business means to you and the people important to you. So join us to make the world a better place. Spread the word, tell a friend and go make a difference in your world. Now onto our show with your host, Peter Mingles. Take it away, Peter. Hello everyone, Peter Mingles here. You're listening to us on Building Fortunes Radio, it's www.BuildingFortunesRadio. It's our first radio show of 2026 with InnovativeManagementTools.com is the domain name for Patrick

1:04Seaton. You can find him on that domain name and also on LinkedIn. And this is the beginning of a new year and obviously some people have new years resolutions and things like that line and you start a new year as far as the statistics are concerned. But we've been doing radio shows with Patrick for well over a year. I think we have probably over 70, I think maybe so far as far as radio shows. Number 76. So that's over 70, so we are here and if you go to BuildingFortunesRadio.com for what's last I.M.T. you'll be able to hear this as well as the previous radio shows and be able to get a really nice collection of the different things that Patrick's been working on. So I was impressed with Patrick, I met him as a result of a speed networking event I did with Mani Lopez. Mani's a good guy, put some really great people together and Patrick was on one of those breakout meetings. I really liked what he was talking about as he did a presentation and I said you know I wind up shaking my head up and down in agreement as opposed to left to right as I do with

2:04sometimes with people in disbelief. But I said I really like what you do and he says well I've taken a lot of our management skills and consultation and different things as far as platforms and we made it digital. We put it up on the web and we've been doing custom framework tools and all those other cool things and I said well let's do some radios just shows on this. We have a lot of people that either run companies or work with people that are running companies and this can help reduce some of their friction and some of the other stuff that happens with building a business. We all got plenty of challenges related to a whole bunch of different things especially after the pandemic. So end with ever changing things relative to like AI and other technologies and who the heck knows what's going on so we've been doing these radio shows. Sometimes we have a guest, Donna Baker is one of our favorites she comes on every month. Sometimes yes people from the outside but both of the time Patrick gets a chance to share with us some ideas. I get a chance to comment a little bit and you get a chance to take some notes and you may want to fit back and relax and just breathe it all in or you might want to grab some

3:05notes but either way you'll be able to go back to building fortunes radio and be able to relisten to this as I'm sure you'll hear something new every time you go back and listen in. So Patrick thanks for being here on your own radio show the Innovative Management Tools Radio Show. Well thank you Peter and hello to all the listeners. It's amazing that we are in 2026 but happy new here and think that we're almost halfway through the month of 2026 is even more amazing but yeah so looking forward to a really great year and I wanted to start off this year with a topic that everybody does their skills get ready let's kick off things like that and this is a topic that could fall

4:09into that if you don't have one and help to guide the year for your employees and what I'm talking about is I want to talk about tonight is the importance of having an organizational positioning guide. Now some people might be saying what what you might call it what is it. I was introduced to a positioning positioning communication guide in my second corporate life and turned out to be very very effective I don't know if I really agree how it was done but it was a very effective document and that gave me the inspiration for creating a conversation framework for that because it helped us at the department level having

5:10the organization level document. So what is a positioning guide it's really this overarching and the document that kind of says who are we as a company and what do we stand for and what are some of the very high level things that we're going to follow. So that everybody follows the same they follow the same way to speak about the company to present the company words to say words not to say how we position ourselves so that no matter who in the company is talking to customers suppliers whoever it might be there's a consistency so I'd like to position guides I've been I've been surveying companies on

6:21different categories of challenges and one of them is position is the organizational position guide and so to give you some context of it as to how frequently these are challenges in the survey I asked three scenarios and the people who take the survey say yes we have that exists and it is troublesome or an issue for us and I'd like to share those first just to put that this is not something that is a how shall I say a really small you know insignificant thing organizational positioning guides are a challenge in the companies that I have surveyed in 83% of the companies 83% so 83 as 8 out of 10 companies are dealing

7:30with this so what are these scenarios let me start with that the one as the least impact that they feel employees and customers seem confused about what the company niche or position is in the market because no high level positioning document exists to provide clarity now there are people who say yes we don't have anything to kind of drive us the next higher scenario was no high level company positioning document exists resulting in a variety of individual interpretations of what the company stands for among the management and employees so when you don't have this it creates a disconnect and the number one challenge that people face in this category is this company

8:32product services and initiatives seem to be taking the company in various directions at the same time and management wants to reconcile everything into one place so that a company strategy and communication plan can be developed so those are the scenarios and I'm going to do tonight a little bit different if you listen to other shows I usually do two has but I'm going to sprinkle in the conversation framework and talk about it as I'm going through the show as opposed to keeping it to the back end so let's just kick off with with putting this into kind of context so picture this your best salesperson just closed a huge deal your prospect load the integrated platform

9:33approach two weeks later another prospect calls in find your website talking about a unified solution gets an email from marketing about your enterprise system and then that prospect goes to three different names for the same thing they think you three different companies or worse that you don't know who you are so what's the problem with that yeah most organizations have brand guidelines for their logo hand home colors fonts backs but when it comes to the words that generate revenue they're crickets people are winging it and it's costing companies millions so tonight I want to talk about an organizational position guy and that's the framework

10:36that ensures everyone in the company says the right things at the right time to the right people and consistently so why does this matter in dollars and cents so let's look at it from this point of you companies lose 10% or more of annual revenue when sales and marketing aren't aligned on messaging now that's not theory that comes from IDC research so for a 10 million dollar company you're leaving a million dollars on the table 79% of marketing leads never convert to sales why because there's no consistent story being told from first touch to the close there's inconsistency and incongruity 60 to 70% of the marketing content you paid for never

11:40get used by sales your team spent money creating it but reps can't find it they don't trust it or don't know when to use it because there are no guidelines and companies with consistent positioning see 20 to 30% revenue increases that's 60% better they're 60% better at closing they achieve higher win rates because the company feels and looks and sounds like a unified put together company so let's do the math on this say your five million dollar company a 23% lift from consistent positioning equals about 1.15 1.1 million in additional revenue that you might be leaving on

12:43the table what did it cost to create the positioning guide well maybe 40 hours of some people's time the executive a team or in and in the case where I was it was the CEO who wrote it and let's say that person is that paid at $200 an hour but $8,000 $8,000 compared to over a million that's like a 14,000% ROI just for getting everything organized and consistent let's get a different way you've got a new sales rep and they take about three to five months to reach the productivity levels so if you have poor onboarding that drops their quota substantially maybe around 15% because they're slow in getting up to speed

13:44and replacing a rep costs a ton of money because of all the recruitment and the salary and all the things that you might have to pay severance if you leave someone leaves a positioning guide cuts the ramp of time dramatically because reps learn you're positioning in days not in over the months because they're getting it more consistently from the very very beginning and they're not finding it haphazardly so now let's let's switch and look at it from a different perspective so here could be a current state for you sales creates their own pitch decks marketing rights website copy and isolation product teams have different terminology

14:45customer success uses another set of vocabulary and your new hires learn by osmosis over six months nine months maybe up to 12 and that's when you don't have you don't have this consistent document that everyone's using so everyone's on their own little island so the conversation framework that I created literally decades ago and is still very valuable today is I call it identity because it's giving your company an identity and what it does is it's a way to it has prompts up with 10 different categories and prompts underneath there to get you thinking about how could we document this specific topic so that everyone knows what what the company

15:49and what the right way that we want to position ourselves so identity has 10 categories and I'll go through them so you have identity basics so what's our name our tagline our vision or mission what terms do we use what terms do we avoid so do we for example we might call ourselves and our product is a business intelligence platform but we never call it a reporting tool and maybe we used to call the reporting tool but we've kind of upgraded category number two is historical context so what's our story what are our accomplishments what are core competencies and this is really important because new hires learn context in one

16:49document instead of through what I'll call tribal knowledge they hear the same story they repeat they use the same story and the customers and prospects hear the same story so it's very consistent the third category is market position what are our products our target customers our competitors our market share and this category is is important because it creates the discipline it forces the company to define who you serve and who you don't the fourth category is go to market channels how we market how we sell our partnerships and the benefit of that is that partners represent you consistently so it's important that everyone knows who our partners are and so we talk to

17:52them in the right way and we can share this with them so they understand how to represent us in a certain way the next section is strategic direction well what are our goals our plans or key metrics this is what you call the the connector section these are the links this links the daily messaging to the company objectives the sixth is organizational structure which is who does what what are the departments what are our locations I've been in I've been in companies where employees did not know where we had our own offices that's that's so that's kind of amazing I think because if they're talking to people and someone says oh well tell me about your company and they

18:52don't represent where we have offices that starts to skew and then the next person says no we do have an office there and then the next one says well I don't know if we do so now it gets very confusing for the people and they go does this company not even know who they are and where they operate the seventh category is called information flows and that details out how we communicate and what documents we use what processes we use this is for the efficiency we want to make sure that we've mapped out the high level core key processes and ways that we interact as employees number eight is our training philosophy how do we develop people so what's our onboarding philosophy do we have repeatable training do we invest in employees

19:59because it's through the through the employees and the people that we will actually grow as a company number nine is performance standards what we expect how we recognize excellence within the company so these are setting those rules for the culture everyone knows what quote unquote good looks like and what it doesn't look like and the last one is community involvement what we support how we give back so this shows the authenticity of a company shows our values and how we show up inside the community that we serve or communities we serve so those are the five pieces it's a process of going through these to start documenting under each one of these categories there are sub topics prompts to help spark the thinking and it's going through this process

21:09of documenting and perhaps getting multiple people in the room and contributing to it so that it's more of a it's not a we're not going to debate this but it's good to get people in the room because something that seems very obvious to some people could be completely unknown so one company I worked at my first company it doesn't exist anymore today but it was called best power technology well some people said best power technology some people said best power some people said best well what what did management really want us to say no one ever told us so we had people using it and to some people maybe they thought they were getting calls from

22:13three different companies yeah I'll head best in it but you know it could have been a different company so it's really important to have this document to review it to publish it have it available make sure that people understand it they can ask questions about it if you are I'll if if you've listened to other shows I have a tool called Ask Alex the great place to put at this organizational positioning document into Ask Alex because then it will keep the messaging on track as you're writing content or emails or presentations it will keep those these concepts front and center in everything that you create so we've done two of them one was looking at

23:22from statistically how can we why is it important how does positioning and consistency impact company and then I talked about the process what's in it and how is that why is that important or how do you get one made if you've never made one or created one and now I'd like to talk about how does this impact the people having this document you're like well it's a document you know why is it so important well let's think of the human cost of inconsistency inside a company so let's let's think about the sales team imagine you're a new rep to first week you're on a call and the prospect asks what makes you different from competitive acts and you freeze you say

24:23something generic you lose credibility you beat yourself up for the next three days wondering what you should have said or worse even there's six months you think you know the answer you give your version then your colleague gives a different version on the next call the prospect takes talks to both of you and things these people don't even know their own story what the heck let's look at it from a confidence point of view a positioning guy doesn't tell reps what to say it gives them the confidence that they're saying the right thing it's not just saying what say it's giving them the confidence this is what the company wants us to say and I'm confident that I'm saying the right thing I'm representing the company correctly that confidence comes through in every conversation prospects feel that that confidence

25:30there's a human home for new fighters right now you know maybe your onboarding is like throwing someone in the deep end and yelling hey figure it out you know they got all you got all the access to the tools just you know figure it out they spend six months absorbing bits and pieces here and there they make mistakes and eventually cobbling cobbling together their version of your story because maybe they don't have all of the information with positioning guide they learn the essentials right away when they come into onboarding maybe even in week one they feel supported they feel like hey this company has its act together they feel set up for success and they actually are successful faster because they can talk about the company in in the way that

26:37they are confident to do now how does it impact the customers think about the last time you meet up with a company where one person said one thing another person said something else and the website said a third thing how do you feel how would you feel confused frustrated like maybe they don't have their act together this is really important when you get into things like policies procedures returns and one person says on the phone oh blah blah blah blah blah a and then it gets escalated to someone else and they say no it's b and then someone says well maybe it's a an b and it's the customer you're just sitting there really ticked off because

27:38they can't get their story straight consistency builds trust and trust drives loyalty and loyalty drives lifetime value and customers so let's look at one more group the leadership team now not everyone has been in this situation but you know imagine being in a board room in a meeting with the board members who are someone asked what's our position in against this competitor and three executives give three different answers that'd be pretty darn embarrassing because we don't even know as the leadership team how we stand up against a competitor the positioning guide creates alignment at the top and when leadership is aligned everyone below them can

28:46execute with much more confidence so we're going to look at it from one more perspective and that is thinking about how does a positioning guide help going into the future for the long term well there are I've got five things to talk about here scalability right now your growth is limited by how many people can hold the story in their head your best sales people have it your founder has it maybe a few others but what happens when you want to double the team triple it expand the new markets the positioning guide becomes your scaling engine you can onboard 10 reps as easily as one you can launch into Europe without the message getting lost in translation you can franchise

29:49your success because the document is consistent and exists so what about strategic optionality when you know exactly what you stand for you can make fact faster decisions about what opportunities to pursue and which to pass on because this aligns with what we stand for easier to decide on this does not fit in our wheelhouse we are not going to do it partnership when the partnership opportunities come in you can check it against the section on partnerships does it align with our go-to-market channels oh we've got this new product idea does it fit in our core competence that's in the positioning document so it helps us to make to

30:49to come back that's not saying that we can't update and change the positioning we should it's a living document so we might over time expand but if it's not at that moment then the good idea is the shiny objects can go away we don't go at chasing after them now let's think about it from this point of view if you're thinking about selling your company someday you know I would like to sell ask Alex in this year or next year buyers don't just want your customer list or your technology they want to see that you have systems that you have consistency that the company functions well that you're not just a collection of talented individuals but an actual business that can run without

31:52the funder perhaps and the positioning guide is proof of organizational maturity it says we systematized how we go to market this isn't tribal knowledge this isn't everyone makes it up on their way it's transferable IP and that increases valuation from a market leadership point of you think about the brands that dominate their categories apple Nike sales force what do they have in common consistency in how they show up they painstakingly figured out who they are what they stand for and where they're going they don't wing it every employee every partner every touchpoint reinforces the same positioning that consistency compounds over time into market dominance

32:54and that compiling effect in year one a positioning guide gives you the clarity and efficiency in year three it's created brand recognition in year five it might get you to market leadership in year ten you're the category standard plan and simple now there's another piece in here how does it position guide the AI multiplier so here's the future piece where a lot of people are missing AI's here everyone knows it it's coming for everything GPT quad all of it but generic AI is generic answers hold from the entire internet a positioning guide that becomes part of your

33:55reference material inside your AI agents becomes the training data for your company and the people and the AI tools you can feed it tools like into tools like ask Alex and every rep will get the same messaging from ask Alex because it's using the same baseline documents so you don't get the today you get answer A target answer B everyone gets the same knows the same positioning the same competitive differentiators the exact methodology everything's in that document is then brought to life activated the knowledge is activated and people get it on a continuous basis based on how they're using the AI tool

34:57so everyone is using AI but most people most companies and a lot of most companies don't have a position document that they plugged into their AI so any company that's using AI is going to get AI that sounds like everybody else because it's using the same baseline information which is just the entire internet but when the company plugs in very specific information contextual information into their AI system now that becomes a differentiator you're using AI that sounds exactly like your best salesperson because it's trained on your positioning so those are the four I think Peter why don't we do song one and then it's going to talk

36:02it's the songs tonight are about identity and positioning but why don't we do that and we'll come back and talk a little bit more perfect here we go we are gotta do the mission's going to fall find our center focus like a star this is what we need identity guy let's create a plan we want as long without a single step in voice

37:06you'll know where we fit let's let it go no document you ain't who you are get the news and the chance for you to fall find our center focus like a star is it for me oh wait water bring us back make a state unified and won't array. That's the way to lead. Work hard or close. No documents do.

38:07Got a few examples to walk. Find out, send the focus like a saw. Ministers, what to do? All right. That was different to me. No jazzy, bluesy kind of. Yep. Okay, so we've, I've given you kind of talked over four reasons for having an organizational position guy. We looked at it from a data point of view. You get when you have that consistency, it helps with revenue increases, better closing. You're not leaving money on the table because people are confused about you and your company

39:08where they think they're talking to different. So that it has a financial impact. But we also talked about it from a process, excuse me, a process point of view. Having a, having a positioning guide helps with making sure that the processes are consistent. There is repeatable and faster onboarding and there is more consistent execution of things. So it hits at the process level. From the people side, it builds confidence in reps. It builds trust with customers and it builds alignment with leadership. And from the future visionary kind of point of view, it can help with scalability,

40:08strategic clarity, your value as a company, and your AI readiness. When you can plug it in and leverage that knowledge and activate that knowledge and then as needed basis over and over and over. So here's a question for you. How many of you in your company would let people design their own version of your logo? I'm guessing the answer is nobody's saying that. So why are you letting them design their own version of your value proposition? They're your own version of how to describe your company. They're your own version of what's important to your company. At the end of the day, it's your company. They're not the owners.

41:10So why are you letting them, why are you giving them free reign on very critical things that build that consistency? So the action or the invitation that I would put out there to people is number one, contact me. If you do not have an organizational position document, let's talk. The conversation framework identity is a collaboration tool. It's a digital format. It's all the prompts are set up ready for your team, whoever you want to include, to come in and capture this information. Finalize it and say, this is who we are. This is how we communicate. This is our positioning.

42:11And I train people, internal facilitators, to your company. So you can, they can run it. You don't need an external consultant. And then once you have that document, and it might, depending on how many people you bring in, it might take four hours, six hours, a couple sessions. Then you kind of organize it, and then you review it, and maybe you forgot some stuff. But remember, this is a little living document. This is not something that, you know, these are not the ten commandments that you chisel and stone, and they can't change. These are, there's a document that is meant to bring everyone together and to grow with the company. So within very few hours, you can have an organizational positioning document, and you work through the categories.

43:12And then, if you want to activate it in your AI, we can talk further, because I have some ways for my tool last, Alex, or you're working on your own AI stuff. But you have a way, then, something to bring in for a company context, which is really important. So at the end of the day, your brand is your story. And if you're not controlling that story with a positioning guide, then everyone's telling a different version. And that's really not strategy. That's, you might say, it's chaos, wearing your company uniform. So here's some things to think about.

44:18If you're one of those data people, and you want to think about how important is this for our company, go and run the numbers on your own business. What's 10% of revenue that you potentially are leaving out on the table, because your customers are not feeling like they're working with a consistent company. If you are a processed person, think about just one thing. Nailed on your terminology. What are the words that people should use, and the words that they should avoid? And then go check and see how many people are using the right words that you want, and the words that you don't want. That's a sign that we've got some issues.

45:19If you are really focused on the people, go ask your newest rep what they wish they would have known on day one. That's what needs to go into the guide. And if you're one of those future thinkers, imagine where you want to be in five years. Can you get there without some sort of unifying document that's going to keep everyone focused and in-step? That's not so locked, except that if you've seen one word out of it, that's the end of the world. But we're talking about the big things that drive the company. And the more you grow, the more people, the harder it is to keep your arms around everybody.

46:26And you can't be in every conversation, every call, every meeting, every event, and know what people are saying. And so it's really important that you give them the tools so that they can start learning and practicing. What the company would like everybody to be saying. To me, I think of it like, if I asked an employee, do you like basketball or baseball? And I say, oh, I like basketball. Well, here we play baseball. And you need to talk like baseball. You can't, you know, we don't want people here talking basketball when we play baseball.

47:32And we want you to talk about it in our terms, in our, you know, everything that we do in the way that we want to do it. And that's how we are represented. And we want to be represented. So those are some, maybe some reflections, some action items to think about as you're, you know, considering do we really need a positioning guide. And really that the first time when I, in the first company I was working at. And we heard that CEO was working on it. And we're like, you know, why, why do we need this? But the company had grown pretty substantially and rather quickly. And it was, it became really important. And to the point that in when I started my business, I said, this is really important for companies.

48:33It doesn't matter how, how big or small you are. You need to have a positioning guide. And next week, I'm going to talk about a different level of positioning guides, which is not the organizational, but the departmental. Because all the departments need to know how they fit inside the bigger puzzle of the organization. And you might be going, oh my gosh, down at that level, every department knows what they, what they do. Well, you'd be surprised. I'll say this week and I'll repeat it next week, I'm sure. But I worked with a department to create a positioning guide. And this department had been in existence for nine years in the company, nine years. And one of the first questions is, what's the name of the department?

49:37The seven people could not agree on what the department's name was. Like, what? What do you mean you don't know? I think we're going to play a commercial break Patrick kind of dropped off.

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51:38Visit RFIingredients.com, RFIingredients, naturally better. Now back to the show on Kisk, my health radio. Take it away, Peter. And we are back, Patrick, are you here? Yeah, Patrick, are you back? My internet dropped. Yeah, so we wait a couple of seconds. We just ran a commercial break, and we are back ready for you. Great, that's very good. So I don't know where I dropped off. Yeah. Had I talked about the for next week? No, we didn't talk about next week yet. Okay, so next week, I'm going to along the same lines of organizational positioning, I'm going to take it down to a level 2 departmental positioning guide. And tell, go through a similar, why is it important to have that? Because all the pieces of the departments are the pieces of the puzzle that fit into the organization.

52:40So that will continue this topic in some sorts, but with a different focus for next week. And with that, I think that we can go to song number 2, which is again on the organization level identity, and close-up show. Unless you have any thoughts, comments, how has this made sense to you, Peter? Oh, it's made sense. And as I was thinking about this, I was thinking about some of the issues that maybe when I was working with a bigger corporation, I run my own company now, so a lot of this stuff isn't as applicable as the descriptions that you used, but I realized that how some people, you wonder if they're even working for the same company or not. Yeah. Well, let's run song number 2, and then we'll continue.

53:41Here we go. You look like strategies to be right than a thief. Employee searching answers. Flying sends a blender. What's on it? Our position's a hitch. Without a document, we're like dancers.

54:44Fine of course. Fine of course. What's essential? You look like strategies to be right than a thief. It's a styling path to one face. Like I didn't plan a firm break. All decisions you create to one whole face. Fine of course. Fine of course. What's essential? You look like strategies to be right than a thief.

55:49All right. Must have been a jazzy mood that night. Yeah, I think so. Anyone listening to this, I will reiterate if you are interested in having a tool, a framework that can help you and your company. Create a positioning guide. Please reach out and let me know. And then in addition to that, if you want to talk about how to then take that positioning guide and activate that knowledge across the company with people, let's talk about my tool, ask Alex. And a cousin to a positioning guide might be your branding guide.

56:54It can be your sales playbooks. Any of those foundation institutional documents that you want people to follow consistently. That is ask Alex as a way to get those documents in front of the right people. Not by just saying, hey, remember to do this. It's a much more dynamic. It's an AI has a foundation with Claude and it then brings it up and says, oh, well, you know, when you're talking about this, here's the way to word it and it just naturally brings this information in. So it's great to have the document. It's great to train people on it, but training doesn't last. They need reinforcement. They need sustainability. They need constant reminders and coaching on it.

57:58And that's what it can do because the power of these foundation documents is when they're used on a regular basis consistently. I can't stress that enough. I just can't stress it enough. You know, think about those companies where you feel like you're talking to four different companies. And that doesn't give you a lot of warm fuzzies. So if it's not giving you warm fuzzies, it's not giving your customers and your prospects. Warm fuzzies either. So with that Peter, I'll let you any last thoughts you have. If not, then we can close this down. I think this is one of those radio shows where you probably have to listen to it several times because when you were going through the different, well, the points, you know, you had to 10 and then the five and stuff like that.

59:01I know that I would probably have to make sure that I'm listening a couple of times because I'm sure I miss them. So that's what I'd have to say about that. So if you want to reach out to Patrick Seaton, go to LinkedIn. You can find him Patrick Seaton, SET, ATLN. Check out that identity custom framework. Talked him about doing this positioning guide or those organizational positioning guide. And then I'd say check out everything Patrick does. He's got his ask Alex. He's got his books that we've referenced before. So if you're looking for a good business consultant, check out Patrick Seaton. And that's all I have to say about that Patrick. Well, thank you Peter. I appreciate the words of the kind words that you've just put in front of the listeners. So next week we will be back and be talking about positioning guides but from the departmental level.

1:00:01So please feel free to come back and find next week's show. Next one. We'll catch you up in the next week. Thanks everyone. You've been listening to Building Fortunes Radio on buildingfortunesradio.com. Thanks for listening. Building Fortunes Radio is part of the UMungus AM and UMungus FM radio network. Be sure to check out the buildingfortunesradio.com website to listen to your favourite shows. You can also hear us on UMungus Radio and wherever you find your favourite podcasts. It's been our privilege to have you listen in. At Building Fortunes Radio, we wish you the success you deserve and are willing to work for. Thank you.