Patrick Seaton explores PSSP and how to handle Ghosting on Innoative Management Tools with Peter Mingils

0:00Welcome to Building Fortunes Radio. Make sure you check us out at BuildingFortunesRadio.com. Along with Kisk, our keep it simple circle marketing partners, we are here to help our UMungus AM and UMungus FM radio customers build their businesses and make the world a better place. At Building Fortunes Radio, we know how much your business means to you and the people important to you, so join us to make the world a better place. Spread the word, tell a friend, and go make a difference in your world. Now onto our show with your host, Peter Mingles. Take it away, Peter. Hello, everyone. Peter Mingles here. You are listening to us on a Thursday night with Patrick Seaton, Patrick Seaton, known as the domain name, InnovativeManagementTools.com. That's InnovativeManagementTools.com. And I met Patrick for those people that are interested in the origins of relationships. I met him as a result of being on a radio show. I'm sorry. On a speed networking event with a gentleman named Maddie Lopez.

1:00Maddie's a good guy. Good man. He's a dad. He's a family man. He helps foster children that exit from foster care and he's overall a good person. And Patrick was there doing some speed networking stuff and there was a time where Patrick got a chance to speak and I was listening and I'm like, you know, this gentleman has a lot of knowledge and he's really good at what he does and I agree with him so my head is nodding up and down in agreement which is usually not usual because many times I listen to some people and I'm like, oh my god, side to side. I can't believe the saying is, where are these people coming from? They lost in space out of this world. And I was interested in that and then I said, you know, you're doing some stuff with InnovativeManagementTools. He's taken his knowledge and putting it on digital platforms and I'm like, well, that's a smart and a great move. I know there's a lot of our building forces radio listening audience that probably needs to do this. So we started doing some radio shows and then we kept going. So we've been doing this for a super duper long time and sometimes we do this by ourselves.

2:02Sometimes we have a guest that's always special when Donna Baker is here. She runs a company called Realize and she's super duper smart and Patrick and her really go back and forth on a whole bunch of things like they did last week. But tonight he's going to start the radio show on his own. I'll listen in, make some comments as I will and he's got a little bit of a slightly different format. So I'm kind of curious to see the slightly different format but I'll share with you as long as Patrick shows up. It's going to be good. So if you go to InnovativeManagementTools.com you'll see that he's an author. He wrote a couple of cool books, Crocodile Brain and Elephant Under the Rug and cool things like that to make you think. And he's got this really cool AI tool called Ask Alex and for those people that are here you're probably going to check that out as well. And Patrick comes along with the whole deal. So whether it's a custom framework or whether it's coaching or consulting or whatever it is that you need done. Make sure you check him out. You can reach him best on LinkedIn. If you go to find Patrick Seton, SCATO and on LinkedIn you'll see him there.

3:05And Patrick is always a privilege and a pleasure to have you here on Building Fortune's Radio. Thank you, Bear. And it is always nice to spend part of my Thursday evening with you and the listeners. Well, tickle my foot tonight, so excuse that. But yeah, I think we're pretty much close to show number 80 if I'm right around there. Yeah. And tonight I wanted to talk about something that is really, I think, top of my, well, I know it's top of mind for the people I work with, sole owners, businesses, microbusinesses, coaches, consultants. And it's the thing that they wish they're just so frustrated about when they're in the sales process.

4:06And that is when they get ghosted and they are just, it's one of the first things they say, you know, I spent so much time on my proposal and I just get ghosted. And they don't respond, they don't do this, they want to answer my emails or my calls. And it's just the frustrating part about it. So what I wanted to do tonight was to break down before you get started, let's imagine there's one person who's been living under a rock for a while and they don't understand what the term ghosted is. So what kind of ghosted? Yeah, ghosted is when you send an email and proposal and anything and theoretically someone has said, hey, you know what, can you send me that? Send me some information. Can you send me a proposal? Can you send me, you know, whatever that might be? And you send it and you hear crickets afterwards.

5:09I'm not mixing metaphors, but you don't hear anything. It's like you're sending your communication to a ghost who doesn't exist and it goes nowhere and they don't respond. And like a ghost, you can't find them because you try to email, you try to call, you try to do something and they just have disappeared. And that's what the term ghosted and ghosting means. So it's something that is, we're going to learn tonight. It is in some ways it's predictable and we don't even realize it. And in some ways it's just a response that people have and I'll explain that in more

6:11details as well. So what I want to talk about tonight is ghosting, why it happens, when it happens and then I'm the backside of the show, I want to talk about a process that can help you systematically prevent it, what you can do about it. So I'd like to start off with five things that are kind of digging into why we get ghosted. So the first thing is just let's put it into perspective, the ghosting is not always about you. I would guess that probably about 60% of ghosting happens because of the buyer's internal situation changing. So they might have had budget that got frozen out of the blue.

7:15Maybe the champion for the project you're working on has gone to a different position, left the company, whatever it is. They might have had priorities that shifted, but it just came up very urgently. But there are also some things that I've heard from people that are just maybe not internal situation, but just situational. So I was just talking to a client and a coach this week and he was telling me a story about how he just got ghosted, ghosted, ghosted. There was no response, no answer. And when he finally got an answer like two months later, he found out that the contact, the gentleman at the company, his wife had been ill and he just kind of like dropped

8:17off the radar. And no one really knew to talk to the guy coach and so he thought, what did I do? How come he's not answering me? This is so unlike him and he was really getting upset, but then he realized when the guy came back that I'm really sorry, but this is what happened. Another person I talked to was very frustrated because he had sent a proposal. The company was very, very interested and then they just went silent and for probably two and a half months and what he found out afterwards was that he sent the proposal but well, let me put the context. This company is in Florida and this company does windows for housing.

9:17And the guy I was talking to happened to send the proposal right at the onset, well, I mean, he used my tool ask Alex and he said, Alex, what can I do? I'm so upset. He was so interested, why isn't this guy answering me? And Alex came back and said, well, you know what? You sent this right out of the eve of hurricane season. It's a windows company, don't you think they're a little busy right now? He said, oh my gosh, I totally could do that. Did not connect that. As soon as hurricane season was done, the company resurfaced, they closed, everything was fine. So I would say that 60% of ghosting happens because the buyer situation has changed but that leaves about 40% of what we say or don't say.

10:18The question is, do you know which, how to control the 40% that you own? So we're going to talk about that because what we say and do impacts very strongly how people react and if they're going to ghost you. Which leads to the first thing. So I talk a lot about neuroscience and the crocodile brain and how we cannot be too aggressive, we can't be too complicated, we can't be too pushy because of the crocodile brain. That's the base part of our brain that is the gatekeeper is just there to solve its problems and it only likes to talk about that. It does not like to be sold to because that's a threat. You own my money. So when we over explain our solution at the beginning, before they even know their problem

11:24and understand their problem, the crocodile brain just stops listening because we trigger this is way too complex, this is too risky. These guys just trying to sell me something. I don't know why I would want it. So they ghost because re-engaging feels a lot harder than avoiding you and your enthusiasm for your solution became their reason to retreat and avoid you. Imagine this, sales people, you're in a meeting with somebody and you're real salesy and the person says, hey, you know what, this sounds interesting. Can you send me some information on a quote? Well, what does a sales person do? They jump up, run out of the meeting room and they go start sending, preparing the quotes.

12:26They hear, oh my gosh, I've got a hot one here. Well, what could be happening on the buyer side is this person is so pushy and so salesy, I don't understand this. I'm confused, it's too complicated, oh my gosh, I go into survival mode, I just want to stop this meeting. What's the easiest way to get rid of them? I know, I will fame interest and ask for information in a quote and they'll leave my room, the meeting or the office in like two seconds flat. So they're looking for survival and then when they get the quote, they go, I don't know I would want to read this, there's no interest. So they ghost. So the crocodile brain is a really strong reason why we get ghosted because we are pushing the crocodile brain and it has no interest in reading or receiving what we are sending.

13:29The next thing I'd like to talk about as to why we get ghosted is that we really don't anchor the problem in terms that they understand. So they don't, maybe they understand their problem, but they don't understand how how severe the problem is because we have not quantified with them their problem and you know what, your situation, your problem, your frustration, whatever they want to call it based on how much money are you losing or spending that you don't have to? What's the productivity drain that your current situation or problem is has on you? What's the risk, risk exposure that your current situation or problem has out in front of you and how is this problem or situation affecting you emotionally? There's really no internal business case.

14:31When you start quantifying the money, the productivity, the risk and the emotional toll, they start saying, oh my gosh, I really understand this problem and I've got a huge problem and they have more interest to say we need to do something now. If you don't go and help them understand it in those factors, when they have a proposal and their boss says, well, why now, well, I don't know because you know, it sounds like a problem we have and we should probably do something. They don't want to put themselves in that. So ghosting is easier than admitting to others that they can't justify it internally. So we've missed a piece of the business case justification. The fourth reason why we get ghosted is very, very common and it's the premature proposal.

15:38Someone says send me a proposal and because sometimes we think, well, I'm the smartest person. I know what they need. I'm going to send a proposal. They send it before multiple stakeholders or even the sponsor has agreed there's a problem we're solving. So our champion, your champion, is stuck trying to sell internally. Number one, without your help, number two, without stakeholder agreement or coalition and they're ghosting because they're overwhelmed, not because they're not interested. And there are many sales methodologies that say, you know what, go in, it's always good to see if they have a budget and a proposal, you know, for their, whenever. So put some pricing out there, gauge their interest and appetite for it. Those prices are when they're just out of the blue and a lot of the pricing they can

16:40find online anyways. So you don't need to do that. But their, that pricing to the crocodile brain is a clear message, hi, I'm a sales person. I want your money. This is how much you cost you want to give me your money. It doesn't matter how much you're pushing it with, I'm just trying to get a sense of where you're at and what you're thinking. The brain doesn't hear that, the crack brain doesn't understand that. All it hears is money, price, threat, I'm out. So we have to warm up the crack brain before we send those proposals through that business justification and premature proposals are the fastest way to trigger somebody to ghost you. So what is the prevention for all this?

17:44I mean, what's the antidote? The antidote that I see is having a systematic process that is not focused on your selling process, but a systematic process that matches the buyer's journey. Let's say it again, our job of salespeople is not to sell what we want to sell. Our job is to guide them through their buying journey. They're buying process. When you know where they are in their decision process, you know what questions to ask before moving forward. You're gathering the right information, you're involving the right people. You have various moments when you can say, you know what this is not going somewhere? If I keep pushing, I'm an investment time and energy and I'm probably going to get

18:46ghosted because there's really not a business case here. There's not a there, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest. Whatever it might be, it's a systematic approach to help you stay on top of it and more concerned about their buying process than your selling process. And that systematic process helps you know what questions to ask before moving forward. You don't just assume you ask the right questions to make sure you should move forward. So the systematic process, you could liken it to having the GPS that stops you from taking exits too early. Or it tells you you've got to take these turns, don't go over and skip these streets because

19:47if you skip them, you are going to end up ahead of them out of sync with the person and that's when you're going to start getting ghosted. So I'll stop here and Peter, what do you think of these five different preventions or reasons and preventions for ghosted? Well, there's a couple of things. Peter, we can't hear you. Hello, hello. I'm here. I'm sorry. Switched to a different headset. So I could hear you better. So there's a couple of things, because I'm so old, I remember the ghosting thing sometimes

20:50had a little bit to do with like when you were visiting with people and they say, do you have a business card and when you when you had a business card that really translates into, can I get rid, can I get rid of you this easily? And I think, and I think the new set, can you send me a proposal is a really cool way of doing it because most people who say, can you send me a proposal, really don't think about how much they just distracted you to do what they asked you to do. So if they just would have said, can you have a business card, the hell easier, because this way, at least, you know, you're not putting any time or effort into it. But the new ghosting is real, because when somebody says to you, can you send me a proposal, you're more or less going to, you're going to put some time and effort into it and probably more than you should, and unless, and especially if each one is somewhat unique, or you don't have anything kind of cookie-cutter, so ghosting is a real issue. Now, so I agree with what you said about a lot of the things that you had mentioned.

21:54It's a real challenge, and a lot of people sometimes, they start caching the commissions before the sale is even made based on what the guy said, or what the guy said. It's a real challenge, and a lot of people, because, like you had mentioned also, they're not faced to face with you. It's real easy for them to avoid you, because engaging with you is a lot more painful than just blowing off. And how many people actually get blocked, you know, from phone calls or emails or texts that never know that. Now, to add to what you said a little bit earlier, because I'm so free and old, I've had to come up with my own conclusions, and this is, you know, you can blend this into what you're saying next, is I learned an expression unless I know all the variables, any conclusion I draw is probably wrong. And only because I've had so many experiences with so many weird things going on, you know,

22:57the idea that a favored customer, potential customer might just disappear, I learned that, okay, let's go back to your thought process, unless I know all the variables, any conclusion I draw is wrong. Well, I don't know all the variables, and how would you know whether a kid is sick or a wife is sick or he's sick or something else happened in the company? There's so many. So, I learned to not work myself up, but you want to handle those awkward moments in advance of this ghosting, so I can't wait to hear some of your solutions. Yeah. Now, what you said about the proposal is very true, but that doesn't mean that we never want to give a proposal. I mean, because we have to, however, there is a time and a place in a moment for a proposal and it should not be in my estimation, in my experience, it should not be after, unless you're selling very transactional and they say, you know what, you sell bottles of water,

23:59I need four cases of water, send me the quote, okay, but, you know, they probably don't even know the quote with that, they would just buy it online now, but you get what I'm saying. So, the idea is not that we don't send it, but we have to get to a certain point that it makes sense to give the proposal and the analogy that I'll use is, assume, let's just imagine you go into a doctor, you get seated in the room, you're waiting for the doctor, the doctor walks in, starts scribbling out of prescription, doesn't even hardly say hello to you, just scribble out of prescription, says, here you go, go get this from the pharmacy, say, what's that's for, well, that's for your headaches, my head, my head doesn't hurt, it's my feet, well, that prescription is the proposal that we give without having

25:06enough information and really what do they want, what are they looking for, we assume with a few little some things, maybe when the doctor walked in, you were just rubbing your head and goes, oh, must have headaches, okay, I know what to do, I'm smart person in the room and I'm going to give you a prescription for that, a proposal, but you would never go back to that doctor again. So it's the same kind of thing, we need to get to the point that a good doctor would ask questions, you might do some tests, you do whatever they need to do to really understand what is best for this patient and maybe it's not just their feet, maybe it's also their knees but which problem do they want to fix first, so there's a lot of factors that go in there because maybe you don't want to try and fix the feet and the knees at the same time and there's a reason for it but it's knowing how to walk them through their buying

26:14journey again, so what do you want to fix first, well, I really want to, I really want to fix my feet so I can walk and get a little bit of exercise, then I'll come back and we'll worry about the knees because I used to be a runner and you know, I'd like to do that but what good is having good knees if I can't have feet to walk on, so there's a logic to it and there's a flow to it and that's what we need to focus on as sellers, what is their buying process and how can we align to that with good discovery, good questions, good understanding, involving the right people, everything that goes into it and that's what the problem-solving sales process, I call it the PSSP problem-solving sales process,

27:17that is what that process is designed for, to walk through, to walk people through their buying process and not through my selling process, so that's what I'm going to talk about in the second half, we have two songs, if for those who listen to the show regularly, we always have two songs to wear at the middle and one at the end and this song, the first song, both of them, but they're going to talk about what our thinking styles and that I'll explain it to an assessment as to how our brain works because I love neuroscience and I'll explain what thinking styles are on the back end and how they play into the PSSP and I'll also explain the process, so Peter, if you're ready with the first song, we can run that and then we'll get into the PSSP.

28:41I think the one where it lies, it's getting hard to find the answers but it's fine, I just have the days to apply, let me take you on a journey to the corners of the range, thinking style, what is the count, the part of the game, thinking styles forever, no one sees the love that keeps in me, I'll make you high on chest to the low, if you don't know how far I'll go, but it'll be understanding my comfort, let me take you on a journey to the corners of the range, thinking styles, what is the count, the part of the game, thinking styles forever,

29:42every style of thinking has its line and date, one needs to wrap up other things the way, it's calling over the brain, the universe to play, to get a bigger human come, what a pain, let me take you on a journey to the corners of the range, thinking style, what is the count, the part of the game, thinking styles forever, cool songs. Yeah, okay, so let me start off with the PSSP and the problem solving sales process, that is the process that is detailed in the book that I released in 2024,

30:43it's called a crocodile brain can make or break your sale, so we're linking back to that point number two in the last half, first half, and the process is outlined in the book and this is a process that I ran for over seven years with a company to fine tune it and get it to where it is today, and it's, you can say that it's a generic process, but it has some specific things that it talks through, so let me just explain what that that flow is and why I think it's a pretty universal sales process, quote unquote, so in B2B or even in B2C in some cases, you first have to get prospects to raise our hand and want to talk to you, after that you have to talk to them for the first time, so you have to have a first meeting, and if there's a reason to keep talking because

31:48you might be able to help them, then you have another meeting or more meetings to kind of understand what this is all about, what they're trying to solve for now, maybe later, the problem might be across the company, so you need to involve other stakeholders, then get their understanding, is this really as important and critical, which ties into number three that we talked about, that investment productivity risk and emotional toll, and so then once you start collecting that information, the company starts to realize, wow, we really do, this problem touches a lot of people, and it is quite severe from those four different perspectives, and once you have that business case, that makes it far easier to go and talk to the decision makers, if they're different people, and say, we have a coalition, we've been talking, we see this as being something

32:50that we should work on and fix, and here we found something that could be a solution, so let's talk about it, once it's, yeah, this makes sense, usually in services, they're in IT or technical services, you have some sort of discussion on, well, who would do what, do you want me to do everything as the provider, or are you going to do something, let's, you know, make sure we understand the tasks and the timelines and everything, and then once I know the work that I'm putting myself on the hook for, now I can give you a really good firm quote, or proposal, and so in that you can understand, we talked about the premature proposal in the first half, and if you put a proposal

33:50in the first meeting, or in the, when you're just figuring out what the problem is, or when you walk into your decision maker meeting with the proposal, and you haven't fleshed that out, or you don't really know what you're on the hook for, those proposals really are quite meaningless, and that's why they're going to look at it and go, why are you giving us this, I don't even know why I'm looking at this, or well, we haven't figured out the details enough, so the problem solving sales process, the PSSP, is designed to walk through that, to make sure that you have moments when you can stop an opportunity, but also keep moving ahead through the bind journey, and get it to the point that they want the proposal, and it's clear what's going to be in that proposal. Okay, so that is what

34:52I coach on that is embedded into the sales communication and thought partner tool Ask Alex that I have, but now you might be saying, well, what does this song have to do with it? The song was about thinking styles, and thinking styles are, you've heard of perhaps, or probably, heard of behavioral styles, personality styles, learning styles, but many people have not heard of thinking styles, and thinking styles are really quite interesting to me, because it is when we hear words out of context, where do they go in our brain naturally, because our brain has certain agility, and stronger agility and dominance in certain parts. So we all know that some people are very data

35:54oriented. We know other people are very process oriented. We know that some people are very emotional and people oriented, and others are dreamers and future thinkers, and they're always in tomorrow. Well, those are thinking styles, and those that dominance is where our brain goes most naturally, easily, and uses the least amount of information, or energy, sorry, use the least amount of energy to process in that part of the brain, and that's what engages us. So if I am a real process person, and I'm talking to a free thinker, dreamer, and I'm trying to get them to think my way and force them to think in process and steps,

36:58that doesn't interest them, and they shut down, or they just get bored. If I have a real numbers person, and everything needs to be in black and white numbers and calculations and analysis, when I'm in front of very emotional people who want to talk about what from my perception is that fluffy stuff, it's really hard for me, and vice versa. If I really, and the really the emotional, I like to focus on the people, I look at the data people as those cold data people. So how does this plan to the sales process is that we need to understand the thinking styles. This is another piece of the neuroscience that's in the PSSP and in

37:58Ask Alex, but it's important to start to understand and identify what makes people interested, or gets them interested, whether it's in a first meeting, those additional stakeholders, the decision makers, because all along the way, when we're guiding them through their buying process, if we disengage them, then they have everybody to say, no, we're done, stop, we're not going to go any further, we don't want to buy, or even consider buying, because we've disconnected with them. So presentations, proposals, emails, just meetings with different people, we have to adjust to them the individuals that we're interacting with, and it's our responsibility is the seller to adjust to them, it's not their

39:02responsibility to adjust to us. So if I don't engage them, and I want to continue having conversations, but I didn't engage them for the thinking styles, then they're going to ghost me. It doesn't seem interesting. Why do I need to spend more time with you? I didn't get it the first time, what makes you think I'm going to give it the second time. If I write a proposal that is all in the way I think, and not for the buyer, I could write it, and it sounds perfect to me, but they're going to read it and go, yeah, I'm not really getting it, especially if they send it to their bosses who have no idea the story, no idea what the problems are, what the discussions, the interactions, and they just see this proposal, and they go, yeah, why?

40:09So going back to the beginning, saying, yes, perhaps 60% of it is what's happening within your prospects company. But boy, boy, that other 40% is all about you. And what you said, what you didn't say, how you interacted, how you didn't pay attention to them, how you pushed your agenda, what you did, what you didn't do, that's the stuff that we can control and we need to. And if we could boost our probabilities up 40%, well, that would be great. Now, we can't, I mean, situations happen. You know, if a budget is going to get frozen, sometimes the budget doesn't know, until two months after you start talking to them, if there is a downsize and they're gone,

41:14you just don't know. So we have to give ourselves some grace when we are getting ghosted and say, you know what, maybe it's just something going on there and I need to wait and see, but we also need to hold ourselves accountable for and reviewing what, what did we do that potentially triggered this ghosting? Was I really trying to sell, or was I trying to guide their buying process? Was I trying to engage with them, or was I trying to push my agenda? Was I saying what I wanted to say and it was really complicated because they don't know my stuff like I know it, I'm the expert, they're not, and I confuse them and overwhelm them and they said, this is way too complicated, goodbye.

42:18We have to ask ourselves those questions and that's not always easy and sometimes you can get un-ghosted and get back on track other times you just have to learn from it and apply what you learn the next time. But having a system, a systematic approach to guiding their buying process with the right insights, with the right tools, with the right perspective and focus on them and not you, then that will help tremendously. My mother always said, my mother's turning 90 in another 10 days and I'm one of eight kids and we would always run in from outside and start, you know, me and my brother or three of us and we're like, mommy, mommy, mommy, so and so did this, so and so

43:21this pointing our finger and saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the person and my mother will always say, hold on, stop, keep your hand there. Now, look at your hand. How many fingers are pointing at your brother? One, now turn your hand over. How many are pointing back at you? Three, then my guess is you might be three times more guilty of having done something to provoke Michael in what he's doing. Go think about it. And that's what I think we need to do. We, there is a bias in selling that is when I close a sale one, it's because of my wonderful performance. But when it closes as lost or gets ghosted or gets shut down or whatever, it's everyone else's fault.

44:28I think we need to start with ourselves. So with that, for each show I like to give something or talk about something announcement. And tonight I would like to just say I am open. I have some slots for coaching, one-to-one coaching. It's a three to four month journey to implement the PSSP. It's a one-to-one coaching personalized. It is not a group. It's not a course. It is very tactical and adapted to each client. So if anybody is curious about talking about that, I'm more than willing to have a conversation

45:30and see if there's something that I can do. If you are a solo printer that feels like you've been doing okay but you've hit a plateau and maybe you need to think about how to do, how to up the game with a new approach. That would be wonderful. Same thing. And obviously the book. It's a great way to read about the PSSP, see if it's for you. And that's on Amazon if anyone is interested. So a crocodile brain can make or break your sale. Like I said, I talked about it if someone is interested in the thinking styles. I also have an assessment for that to help you understand where you are. And so that awareness is really critical for when you're going to talk to prospects and clients. So with that Peter, any questions, thoughts, comments on the PSSP thinking styles in second half?

46:39No, I'm right there with you. And the only thing I guess I would ask and you can maybe either hand it on this one or another radio show is with the approach be different based on the personality style of the people that you're dealing with. And what kind of tips might you give us there as well? Well, it's not so much the approach. So we can all, everyone can think in all parts of the brain. Okay, so but if I'm going to talk to a CEO who is very future oriented, where are we going in the market? We're going to get more market share and that's their role and that's how their brain is, that's how they're wired. When you go to talk about any solution, you need to identify that through how they talk so that you can first or so as you can frame your solution or what you can do for

47:46the company, the problems you're solving into their language of by solving this problem, how could it help you get where you want to go? Now, if you have a CEO who is maybe it was the CFO that moved into the CEO role and they're very data driven. They want to know the numbers, you know, the ROI that this. So by solving these problems that you have or challenges, how can that improve your the numbers? So it's the same approach. It's just we frame it differently based on what they feel is most important. Once you at least get them there and they understand it, you can always say, okay, so we were talking about how this could really help your company go into

48:47the future and, you know, grow. Okay, at a certain moment you could say, but let's, how about we look at it from some other perspectives? How could it help your bottom line? How could it help your quality and processes? How could it help the morale and the people and their development? So you can bring them through the other parts of the brain and they see, oh, so this does affect a lot more than just the way I think, but you don't start with just saying, you know what? Let's think about it from the people point of view and they're saying, but what's most in their head they're saying, what's most important to me and what I really get excited about is talking about how it's going to help us grow into the future. So let's talk about the people. I want to talk about the future. Let's talk about the people. You are at a conflict of friction. So we have to meet them where they're at and then talk about it in other ways so that they see

49:53the totality of the situation. So the approach doesn't change. It's just how the words we use at different moments to frame things. Did I answer your question? Sure does. Okay. So the second song is another one on the thinking styles and in the brain. So I think we can play that one. Here we go. Hold on. Look for the hint in the neuron dance and it's gone.

50:57Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. All those who have been the brains in respect in what's here is mind's weave in chicken thighs. Everyone seeks through this matter of reflection where gone black and tea is mystified. He consists of those who come together. The melody stops while he's wet. For God has leaked you endless water and you stray. Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. All those who have been the brains in respect in what's here is mind's weave in chicken thighs.

52:03Who are the people you meet? Process the world but the questions you feel. rhythm thoughts on repeat. Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. Thinking in the sky with question. Another great song. All right. Yeah. Ghosting is a very... It's very real. It's very frustrating. But it is also... It's not impossible to reduce or mitigate.

53:05Will you get rid of it all? If you find a way to do that because you can't control what's happening on their side. But if you did find that, boy, that person would be amazing. But the idea is let's take care of what we can take care of. And a lot of it has to do with the brain. Our process. Our order, the structure, the systematic approach that we use in guiding them through their buying process. So I'll leave it with this. Remember I said it already twice but at the beginning. My opinion is that our job. Not to sell. Our job is to guide them through their buying process. And at a certain point, if our solution is what will help them,

54:09solve the problems, get unstuck, reduce their frustrations, their challenges, whatever it might be. They'll buy for me. But if we just go in trying to sell what we want to sell, and they are not ready to buy what we are trying to propose, and they don't understand it, that's when we're in the ghosted. And ghosting is a decision in some cases. It's just thank you, but no thank you. We're going to talk about the process, not to sell our agenda and what we want to sell. So with that, I will leave it. And next week, we're going to talk about communication. So for those people who are getting touched with Patrick Seaton,

55:11you can go to InnovativeVanagementTools.com or you can go to LinkedIn. And help be able to direct message you there, and take advantage of all the cool things that he's talking about, including this PSSB. So I know, hey, good stuff. And you know, you pick the great topic, because obviously this is a very challenging thing that a lot of people need to hone their skills. And if you ever master it, but you can certainly get better every day. Yes. Perfect. Excellent. Thank you, Patrick. You're welcome.

56:13And are willing to work for.