Our Top 10 NFL Defenses for 2026

0:00What is up, hoties? Welcome back to another episode of Stay Hot. I'm Blading Curricjointed as always by my two-fairer co-host of all-time Matthew Sponauer and Theo Atte. We are officially one week out from the regular season of the NFL. And that means we've only got a couple more episodes until then. Today we're talking about our top 10 defenses in the NFL. If you missed it last week, we talked about our top 10 off-fenses. I imagine some of those teams will also fee-featured on this list as well. But before we go any further, fellas, it's a beautiful Wednesday evening. The 32 team fantasy league has been drafted. The clippers have been indicted. How are you guys doing today? I'm doing pretty well. I'm doing pretty well. Deem and Torre took down the clippers. Yeah, that's

1:02some crazy journalism. You want to pull it to for a reason. I guess I remember a couple of weeks ago. It seemed like nothing might happen. Everyone's on the right. Why'd you do this? Why would you waste all your time? Mr. Journalist. Please get over it. Why are we talking about it? I can't stand it. I mean circumventing the salary cap is cheating. Team shouldn't do it. I agree that it really sucks for Clippers fans. I feel bad. I mean, especially since the young player, you traded away to make this all happen is a champion and an MVP. You've already had the contender build not work. Then on top of that, after it's all already done, you already blew it up. You lose five first. They're going to be really bad for a long time, most likely. But there's precedent for this. It's not like it's coming out of nowhere with the Joe Smith stuff back in the 2000s. They took five picks from the Clippers. They're not the Clippers. The Timber Wolves. If you let teams get away with it, then they're

2:06just going to keep doing it to be honest with you. I don't have an issue with them enforcing the salary rules. Yeah. Silver made a decision. Is it paid a winner? Is it not? Balmer thought it was. Is the richest donor? He thought he could just buy a contender like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's not baseball. Blading, you got the worst 32 fantasy team I've ever seen. Oh, come on. How did you draft? So I had to go over all pick. I had the eighth overall pick. I was very shocked to see that there was not a run on quarterbacks at the top. And rather there was a big run on running backs. And so with the eighth pick, I could have like continued that run and taken a running back that I wasn't super enthused about. Or I could take the guy who I think is going to win MVP and I took Drake May. That's not the problem. That is not the problem. May at eight is fine. I agree. I'm really high on them this year. And

3:08my next picks reliable and getting in a good offense. So yeah. My next pick after that was Jalen Waddle in the second round. The issue that you run into with this is that by saying, well, I'm not going to reach on running back five. Then you're not going to have any running backs at all. Yeah. And then you're basically punting on two positions. And that's how you end up with K-Tron Allen and Braille and Allen as you're starting running backs. Yes. But you're going to. So part of the thing with the 32 team leagues that you're going to be bad somewhere, right? Or you're going to be average everywhere. Not necessarily. Well, okay. Well, then is like the rest of your roster totally filled out? I think so. Drake May, Jalen Waddle, McCoy, lemon, Sam LaPorta, Tyler Bass could miss a good number of kicks this year. And wait, there's there's tiny spots. Yeah, there's multiple flex spots. There's multiple flex spots. Kevin Coffrey.

4:11Yeah, who's in your flex right now? Kevin Lutman. You guys don't like Kevin Coffrey? Come on. How many points have they projected a score between the two of only one? 3.26. But projected points in this league are irrelevant. I think in this case, it does kind of speak to the strength of your team. I think I think both of those guys are being pretty massively underrated. K-Tron Allen. They're great. Where do you think hold on hold on? Where do you think Luke McCaffrey stands in terms of targets on the Washington commanders? He's White receiver three. He is not the third pass catcher on that team. He was off to a pretty good start last year before he broke his collarbone. Blade Nate. He drafted Tyree Kill in the eighth round.

5:11Yeah, because he's probably going to get on a team this year. There's upside there. Your bench is projected. And then Tommy Trimble. You drafted Coleman in the 15th and you're starting. I don't even know how that works. I'm currently starting Coleman, but you know, we'll kind of see how this happened to that. We'll pick up. No, I'm not picking someone up. It's just it's either going to be Coleman or or Borkershire or Trimble. We'll see who it is. But right now I'm going Coleman, because a lot of there's a lot of upside picks here. Look, I won't say that there aren't some worlds where like some of these guys land upside. Like I don't know. Breeze Hall goes down Braille and Allen's way more valuable that type of stuff. But you're holding out for that at like four different positions that you're starting essentially. Well, I would say that is Braille and Allen. Train and Allen's still going to get some work even if he's not the starter.

6:15He might get some work. But that's a far cry from having somebody who's reliable to get a certain number of touches. Kevin Coleman, anyone in that receiving room could go crazy. It is a very winnable receiver room. I don't have any question about that. He's had a really good preseason. He's a good 15th round pick. I just think you're relying on a lot of like, well, this guy could have upside dudes. Yeah. Because you you drafted like Hyden Reich and Tyree Kill and Borkershire and these are all dudes who I didn't like anyone else at those picks. So I just I think maybe you should have liked other people. Yeah, I think that's the problem. Fair enough. Fair enough. I got the Rams defense, which like we'll talk about on this episode. I'm sure I just think they're going to be like the first defense. I took the first eight runs eighth round. What was it? No, I took I reading the eight. It was fifth round. Yes. I didn't think that was that bad. I thought that

7:19was fine. Like again, I was looking at my board. And I'm like, okay, would I rather the Rams defense or I don't even know who is available at that point. Most of the league, I'm sure. And and in that moment, I was like, and I still believe this looking back at the way the board fell. I'm like, yeah, I would rather have the Rams defense than everyone that got picked after this. I just completely disagree. Like there's there's guys who are going to be starting wide receivers like Koker and Shakir and yeah, a lot of tight ends like sholts and Okarankwa like there's there's players who are like pretty reliably going to have a week to week roll. I just don't know if I can get to week roll. Sure. And and in the same sense, you know, there's defenses that go in the 11th round that are going to have a week to week roll till. Not as good as the Rams. No, but I'm also getting a real player in the fifth round. Yeah. And the Titans

8:22are projected to score more points than the Rams week one because they're playing the Browns. Projected points. Well, we're looking at the projected point. I don't think the projected points are the end all be all. I think that you skipped out on running back, which is really dangerous. Yes. And then you also like kind of didn't take anybody with a good floor to round that out. So I won't I don't want to go like individually down and say there's no way that Braille and Allen has a good season. Yes. Or there's no way that Coleman doesn't have a role. It's like, okay, fair. But none of those guys are are guaranteed to have any sort of role or really project to. And that's that's pretty risky. That's that your team has some risk too. Malik, my team. My team. Quarterback. There's no risk with the quarterback room. I swear to God. There's risk that they just don't score a lot of points on offense. Willis runs that we're cool. I guess he has

9:28safe one and Swift and you have Braille and Allen and K. Tron out. Safe one and Swift is probably the best backfield in this league to be fair backfield. So far. Can I go through my team real quick? Yes. Absolutely. All right. I'll actually let me let me take you through my draft straight up for my thought process here. So I think that running back is the most infallible position, even more so than quarterback quarterbacks. Obviously, there's a hard limit and you can just straight up miss out and then you're screwed out of like 15 points a week or something. But the reality is is like there's a pretty similar floor to running back. Like you can have a guy who scores a point and a half or whatever and you need to start multiple of them and it's half point PPR this year meeting that the highest scoring players straight up are just running backs. So I went say, one at the 15th pick is going to have a big role. I think the offense could only be better. It's a little bit of a risk because of his age. But so is basically everybody and I played it safe and took neighbors and then got screwed anyway. So whatever I took Swift super, super high

10:31floor in the second round is like the 50th pick. I mean, he crushed this last year. So I'm only looking for him to do the same thing. And then on the swing around to me, I kind of had a tear break right. This was the last guy in this tier, but I risked it on Willis. The idea being number one is that Willis is kind of being underrated in this draft because everyone is scared of the floor of a quarterback, whereas like an irregular 12 team league, you draft Willis and you don't care if he's a bus because he's probably your backup anyway. You can just go get somebody else. But the thing is is like, as long as you have the backup, which I do, I got my cord in the 12th round, you're going to have a starting quarterback no matter what. And the floor for anybody who is starting is actually pretty decent. Even the Vikings quarterback room on the whole put up over 250 points last year. And that was as big of a disaster as it could possibly get. Now there's room for the dolphins to be the same. But if I had waited on running back and then gotten a slightly better QB, I wouldn't have necessarily even been locked into a great quarterback season

11:34because they're hard to project, but I would have had a way worse running back situation. So there's risk, but it was it was calculated. I got a Jaden Reed. Jaden Reed in the fourth round. I was really happy about he was somebody I had a little bit higher than this. He's another guy who I think is underrated by regular ADP because he's got a better floor than ceiling. So he doesn't matter as much in 12 team, especially at receiver, but he doesn't 32. Then I went on a tight end run. I went strange Ferguson and Gisickey Ferguson being the biggest risk there. Strange. You'll have a good role. Gisickey, hopefully, I have a role. And then I went Jeremy Bernard to round out my starters. And then it's a bunch of defenses and quarterbacks. I kept like saying, look at me lottery tickets. So I got Shredor Brown's defense, Titans defense, McCord, Winston, Rattler, and then Falk is my kicker. What happened to your defenses? I looked at your at your bench and it's all quarterbacks and Vidal bow. Did you trade this defense as a way? I did trade

12:34Shredor for Vidal. That's too much. As I was thinking about it, I'm like, first off, I don't want to carry just quarterbacks. Even though I do think taking like high value handcuffed quarterbacks is a good idea. And Shredor is somebody who I considered more like less a handcuff and more just kind of like in a battle and very likely to start. But as I sat there and thought about it, I got worried that like, man, what if what if it's like green earlier? What if Watson sticks around forever? And then I'm kind of left holding the bag with Shredor who is on a terrible offense. And I don't really think is like that great and can take a lot of negative plays. So I saw Vidal who got drafted ahead of him who I think also has some sort of like contingent upside on. If an injury happens and he could have a role in a really good rushing offense, hopefully we'll see about the offensive line. But you know what I mean? So I said, yeah, let me let me jump at that. It's a little bit of decent value. But in Borker's shirt gets more work than than strange. You're going to be sick. I would be sick. I'll

13:35be honest. You got me there. Fuck you for taking strange. I feel like this draft got away from me. Like I don't have much logic behind any of my picks. I felt like I kept getting sniped and then being like, well, I guess this is okay too. So like your team though, I don't think that this is I like it more this morning after it was over. I was like, damn, that just did not go how I wanted it to go. And I just don't don't really feel too much connection to to it or didn't really have as much of a strategy as I would have liked to have had. But I'm looking at it now and it's fine, I guess. So we got Caleb Williams. We got Jalen Warren, Kenny Gainwell, Ted McMillan, 80 Mitchell, my tight ends, tight end kept getting. There was like a period of time. I thought tight ends were going to come off the board like, I don't know, slowly or like sprinkled throughout the draft. Well, Matt made it around premium for tight end. So I think a lot of people noticed that.

14:36There was it was it was half point premium last year. Was it half point premium? Look, I don't know the rules. I can't imagine every one of those two rules. Regardless, there was one swing, halfway down and back to me, where basically every middle of the road tight end went. And then I was like, well, I might as well wait. And then I had some other options that I liked and then they would get like sniped for me like Michael Mayer and Kobe Parkinson. I was like, oh, those guys will fall to me and they just never did. So I ended up with Eric, all Eli, Raritan and Marlin Client as my starting tight ends. I like I like Raritan. I think that's a solid shot. The thing about the tight ends is that once you get into the draft, they are the players with good floors who are going to get a decent amount of work. And because you have multiple flex spots, like it really does make sense to just take a shot on them because you get out of wide receivers who have those type of

15:39floors pretty quickly. And that's why my flex spots are are two tight ends as well. Of course, you don't get the same position or versatility. But I don't think this is a bad draft at all. I do think maybe there's a your wide receivers after McMillan are a little boomer bus like Boston and Mitchell could really not be too much. But at the same time, I think you're strong at running back and Coleman. You tried to trade me Coleman for strange. I think you might consider holding Coleman. That could be like a big win if he starts getting more and more work as the season goes on. I don't remember how high are you on him because me and Bladen really like him. I think you guys guided my decision a little bit more than I like him myself. I think he is a really natural tackle breaker like even in the preseason, you could see guys hit him square and he just spins off the contact. I mean, he's a ball of butcher knives. I just think keeping his feet and ripping off big

16:40plays and you know, working through the traffic without stumbling those are kind of the areas where I think he's a bit raw. So even though he's breaking a bunch of tackles like, is he really somebody who's explosive and explosives are so valuable? Maybe I'd rather have somebody who rips off yardage a little bit quicker and easier than he does, but he really does bounce off tackles well and it's a winnable backfield. So I'll stick with him now that you didn't give me strange. I'm still looking at a tie-down, but we'll see. Boston, I'm like, I got to stand on business with Boston. Maybe this is confirmation bias or whatever, but I'm like, I liked him so much and there was such good buzz out of training camp. He's sitting here like sleepers telling me to take him like, who am I to fade, Denzel Boston? I got to I got to stand on business here. So I just really high on Denzel Boston. And I'm like, I don't really know if that made there maybe may have been as much as I like Boston. He's in Cleveland and there's still Judy and it gets

17:42up shoulder round. It's not like he's the first wide receiver they took. So we'll see about that. And then on my bench, I have Calvin Ridley and Aldrich Estabay and Tyson Bejens. They'll meet back up. I have along with those tight ends that I mentioned. So I don't know. It's not really a team of my guys mostly, which is what scares me, but it's not a team of like potentially Washington's wide receiver five in my starting spot. Like, Adonai Mitchell is probably going to be second on the jets and targets like Luke McCaffrey. There's I don't know if there's any buzz or any guarantees or any inkling that he's going to finish above like a trail and birx or Antonio Williams or something like that. Yeah, I will say my team is almost exclusively my guys. So I know it's out. It's your guys to a pretty insane degree. It's your guys after your guys. But here's the thing, you know, my planet running back. Do you want to know what my planet running back was initially, but I just had a feeling I wasn't it wasn't going to happen was

18:45Dobbins gain well in Coleman. I was like, if I can pull off that, I'll feel pretty good. And I did not get any of them. So I got two out of three. I know. But yeah, you got to you got to commit serious capital to pull that off. I mean, it's just I just wasn't like at the spot where I wanted them. I was like, I got to take the defense here. Like they weren't that many none of those guys were available by that point, except for maybe Coleman. Coleman would have been the only guy available. And I wasn't going to take the Coleman who like probably won't even be in a significant role until like mid season over the Rams defense who could just like lead the league in sacks. I think high defense is just really, really bad. Sure, to be honest with you. I think I think it's a big, big cost. And you

19:45it's like you need them to be the very best high scoring defense or. And they can be, but even, even then it's like, I don't know what what did you take them because I thought they'd be third. What did you what did you give up to like make that happen? I mean, there could be a hundred point difference between them and like an average defense. Sure. But the player that you draft instead of the fifth would like definitely would be in a hundred point score or you probably could get somebody who is very reliably that sure. I see what you're saying, but like again, and I'm trying to pull up the draft here so I can draft results. There it is. So at the spot where I took the Rams defense, the people that went after were cocker Lane, Shakir, Gazden, then the Eagles defense, Sholt, Camera, Debo, Keaton Mitchell, Tyrant Tracy, Keenan Allen, Keishon, Booty, Keishon, Booty, I did think about very efficient down the field. But again,

20:48like I don't know if like where is he really going to slot in in that receiver room? I guess he could be where does cocker slot into the panthers receiving. He's why receiver two for sure. Probably easily with a bullet. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. But I already have. I don't know. I mean, I feel really good about my first four picks. Like I feel like those guys are as solid as they get with Maywaddle Laporte lemon. And then like and then I think I didn't really really be tough to be honest with you too. There's just too many. There's too many serious scoring tight ends. You only need one. And it just puts you positionally. So behind the eight ball. I mean, I was I was more so just playing like which positions I think you should draft more than I was playing. Like who I who am I the absolute highest on at this point? Yeah. I was otherwise a pretty much the whole way. Otherwise, I think you just you just get screwed at running back. And I know because I did this to myself last year where I was like, well, you have to punt somewhere. So screw running back plus they get injured. Well, guess what? Everyone gets injured. You can't handcuff a receiver at all.

21:51Granted, it's pretty hard to handcuff any running back. So screw that. Like you're you're you're just doomed at that position. And then there's really no guarantee that by dooming yourself at running back, your seventh round receiver, whatever isn't also like not that good. Really the top running backs are some of the most reliable scores there are straight up. And I didn't really like I will say this. I did say it was half point PPR this year like several several several times. Yes. I think I mean, I added rules. Yeah, you're right. I had somebody I mean, I had respect everybody in the league. I did have somebody asked me like, why is it third round reversal? I had a couple of that and a couple of leagues and it's like it's been like that for years, man. So honestly, I don't know. We'll probably probably going to make it tier PPR next year because I think because I think running backs are too valuable problem. They're already very valuable in this league. So something where it's like half a point for running backs full point for wide receiver probably makes more sense to balance it out. But we'll see. I mean, a lot of it just comes down to staying healthy.

22:56All of your guys can get injured in your screwed anyway. So I'm not celebrating too hard, but I did like my draft pretty much. Yeah, I like my draft, you know, everyone, everyone else hates it. I don't care. My one fantasy note on Jaden Reed, I was watching the new Packers running back today, Marshall Lloyd and Caleb Johnson. They're pretty bad. They're pretty bad. And I was wondering like what that means for Jaden Reed because he's got, he gets a lot of work in the running game. And I almost wonder if he's going to be like on jet sweep duty this year like in his A dots going to be so low because they need something to help out these running backs without Josh Jacobs. And it's like constant J Reed fly sweep constant J Reed like, I don't know, whatever it is. I think you'll get golden golf with that too. No, I mean, I know they like to get him out on the outside. I mean, Reed was productive the last time that he played. So I'm hoping that either he gets some

24:00work with the weird running back room or they're serious about throwing more or whatever. But yeah, I don't know if that's good or bad for him. I just think he's going to have to maybe do some dirty work to help open up gap. He's he's ready for that. I'm hearing. He is ready. He's excited. He's running. He's going to be the running back. People don't know this. Anyway, anyway, did you guys hear that Laquan tredwell is keeping the number 13 away from Keenan Allen? We we stand by Laquan tredwell. That's all I have to say. People were like kind of mad at him for it. They're like, why won't you give Keenan Allen 13? Because Keenan Allen's not like that, bro. He's not like Larry Fitzgerald. He's not like Julio. He's not a Hall of Famer. You know, he's not a Hall of Famer. Keenan Allen's been respect the vet, but like he's he's not Tom Brady. We're in number 12. Okay. No. No, he's not.

25:06But let's get into these top 10 defenses here. We're going to start at 10 today and work our way up to number one. Matt, I'll show to you. Who do you have as your 10th best defense in the NFL this year? Pittsburgh, I guess. I think that this is a list that was kind of hard to make to be honest with you. Once you got into this like nine 10 spot range, whereas with the offences, I felt like man, I could make a good argument for a lot of these offenses for the defenses. It felt more like there is a top tier and there's a second tier that maybe gets me to about eight, maybe nine, but actually getting to a full 10 means I'm starting to consider teams like the 49ers were really in that mix. Yeah. If their stars come back, I really like them, but it's such a gamble in that regard. I mean, the cult site, they were fine last year and they'll have sauce for a full year. Yeah. The Browns were in that mix. Yeah. I really chargeers even after mentor in that mix.

26:11New Orleans, but I don't feel like New Orleans made some big move this off season to like get them better. It's just like, well, they'll be around that range and we'll see what happens. I went with Pittsburgh because they have the most past rush juice to be honest with you. They're pretty set defense. They're fine at linebacker. At least they're athletic, but they're not like a total disaster. But I'm largely here banking on, you know, high Smith and her big and I know hey, we're told, but at least he's still there. I know TJ is not coming off his best season, but he's still a playmaker. And if he has a little bit of a bounce back too, I could see I'm sneaking up here pretty easily. It shocked me how high the Raiders ranked last year. I mean, they were a solidly average defense. Yeah. I suspect that that crawls be missing time and outside of crawls and then Wilkins obviously missed the entire season. So outside of those two, it's like, man, who is who is even left? So Patrick Graham has a history of elevating

27:12defenses. And this is, I think by far the most talented defensive roster that he's probably ever had. He was in New York, I think, before he was in Vegas. Maybe maybe that with Dexan and maybe Lawrence, if those guys who are around are in the conversation. But Pittsburgh, I'm not even in love with their defense fully because they're so old. But you're totally right, Matt, that once you get to about six here, it's like we can kind of stop the place. And it's like, why can't it be Pittsburgh in this top 10? So I have them at eight because they have a defensive coordinator that's been elevating talent because they have a really great piece in the run game that just still can't run at the turns away runs to the other side more than anybody else in TJ watt. And just kind of a whole host to other fun, deep defensive line pieces like Benton has been improving. He can hold up in the run game and slip gaps as well. Cam Hayward, man, is still just

28:14so good. Top five defensive tackle in the league to me. I put them at five when I made my list this off season. Did you know that Cam Hayward is the highest rated stealer in Madden this year? I think it's perfectly, perfectly fair. I mean, the guy has an unbelievable, bull rush still. He seems like just the biggest player when you look at him on tape. Like his iron headed, burly player, he's so old at this point that it like makes him appear almost bigger, like the big tree or something. Reads the blocking schemes instantly, gets long, holds up, doesn't matter if it's a double team or wide zone where he's got to go chase a sideline to sideline. I mean, this is a guy who can absolutely do it all with a bunch of henchmen alongside him and TJ watt that are useful. So I really like this front overall. And even though there's some pieces on the back end that are a little bit more questionable like Ramsey at this point with his age. And I'm assuming

29:18that with this eighth ranking that I've got them at like Joey Porter Jr. comes back and right. Right. Yeah. Eventually they get that. I don't understand how they couldn't get that done. Like he's your best secondary piece by a mile. He can come in and you can play man coverage and feel good about it. The last time we saw him, he was sonning Nico Collins. He's so long, physical, still pretty good like flipping his hips and sticking with guys. Even though he's kind of got this skeleton. It's kind of a stiff movement that he's got that where it's like he's so tall and slanky that it maybe doesn't always look the most fluid, but like he can flip his hips and stay with guys. I think his run fills could probably use a little bit of work, but as a pure coverage talent, the guys elite. So I assume they'll come in. They can stack the box with a lot of disruptive people and play man on the back end. It'd be decently okay. And Jamal Dean, who Jamal Dean was going to say them and brisker. And did they add Sebastian Joseph Day? I believe they did, right?

30:27If you remember that, I don't think he was on the team last year, that's for sure. Oh, he definitely wasn't on the team last year, but they did. Yeah, so they made a fair number of additions. So I think they're kind of proven and with a good, like you said, defensive line and just pass rush unit. I think that's the most important part of defense. That's what I'm going on here when you've got a lot of teams in the same and the same tier. So I rolled in my top 10. Yeah, I have them at number nine. And I think you're spot on, Matt, that having a good pass rush is important, but they do also have a good secondary. And that's something that I value a pretty decent amount. So they were they were very high on on the back end, I guess, of your right that this list is weird because there aren't just like a ton of teams that you can throw in here. Theo, who did you have at number 10? You said you had the sealers at eight. I'm going to go with the, I think I'm going to go with the Saints. I think I'm going to go with the

31:28Saints. Okay. Yeah. The Saints are in there. It's tough. They're going to need, I think, they're going to need to get off to a hotter start. I think towards the end of last year, they were playing really well in the past or started to click a little bit. Chase Young is kind of my favorite piece. Here, I think that he is very underrated at this point. People still think of him as this kind of one hit rookie wonder that has flamed out since Washington. No, I mean, this guy had the third fastest get off of any edge rusher last year, according to next gen stats, the fifth fastest time to pressure. He ended the season with two straight eight pressure performances in individual games. So I think he was playing at, I mean, at least a pro bowl level, like he is a very, very, very disruptive edge, who is not only a good past rusher, but can set a mean edge as well. And I think has gotten a lot better recognizing blocks and is a real pro at this point. And then outside of him, I just like the size

32:32that they've got on the line, like Christian Miller is a great two-gaping block recognition. I want to tackle. I've been saying, mm-hmm, all off season, I really think he might be able to translate right away as a run defender. And everyone they've got in that detackle room is big, so they could split their safeties and hopefully still be all right. They got Granderson, who's a big defensive end on the other side. I just like that size. I think that's so crucial to the way defense is played right now is just to have that size in the front where you can keep the safeties high and limit the explosive. I think the Saints have that ingredient. They moved on from Demario Davis, which stinks because he's such a good veteran linebacker, but they added Kaden Ellis, who's I think a little bit more dynamic in coverage, like against the play action. And then they weren't a very good blitzing team last year. Kaden Ellis is a very good blitzer. So I wonder if he can, if he can add a little bit more juice there. I like Kool-Aid McKinstree. I like their safeties. I just think that the, I think that the Saints are solid. I think they're solid. I

33:34worry maybe more. This is like the 16th best defense and not top 10. Maybe there are teams with more upside that I should be going with here because there's not a lot of star power outside of Chase. Young I'd say. So that's that's what concerns me. But I, I'm putting them at 10. I'm sticking with it. They are very well rounded. You're, you're kind of convincing me Theo because I was going to leave the Saints out in favor of the Colts because I, I think the Colts have that lead. Star power. Well, I think, I just think the Colts have that star power on the interior defensive line. And in the secondary in, in a way that, that the, that the Saints really just don't, but I am also concerned about their past rush. Right. That's not an area where they've really been able to find a lot of improvement. And CJ Allen, who I like is going to be a rookie. And he is kind of in this demetrious night archetype where like he's experienced, he's a vet. He can

34:36get downhill and tackle and fill and read gaps. But like night did not pan out that way. And even though I love Allen, like there's a big risk that he, that it's like that doesn't translate. And he's also not fluid enough in coverage that he's just like a complete nothing. At right. So I mean, the people who find defensively last year and they're getting sauce for hopefully the entire season. I think that's the argument for it. I don't love them. I don't love the Allen edition. I like Halsey. So I agree with a lot of what you're saying. New Orleans did not make the cut for me. I don't think they're a bad pick. I think Davis definitely as he gets older is not as rangel, but I still think he's very wise and pretty quick to trigger downhill and fill in against the run. I think Ellis is not nearly as strong at that. And that's why Atlanta has not moved on from him. So I saw that as a pretty significant downgrade. But certainly Ellis can do things that Davis can't. That's what makes me nervous about New Orleans defense though. And I'd

35:42have a more in that. I don't know. I'd have them in the same like tier. I guess is like the Steelers and the 49ers and the Browns and all those teams I was saying. It's just that like they, they really like lost kind of a core piece for me this off season. I will say I might put the Browns in a tier below. I think losing Garrett and Schwartz is pretty substantial and knock I'm pretty far down. Even though like Denzel still fine. Well, Denzel is actually still really good. And I like the ice and Campbell and Schwestinger. I don't love anyone else on this defense enough to put them even really in the same tier as some of these other teams we're talking about right now. Yeah, I mean respectfully. I don't want to look at everything is like, well, here's where they finished. Yeah, no, I'm just a trick. And then here's what they gained or lost and then that's it. But on some level like the Browns weren't some like otherworldly defense. They had a lot of

36:43talent around Garrett. They had some good players. Yeah. But they were still like, you know, fighting to be in the top 10. You lose a player like Garrett. It just completely changes the math on absolutely everything. The way that some teams had to go out and play the Browns defense because of Garrett. Like I think about that Steelers game that we talked about a while ago and how you felt like, Oh, okay. Well, Pittsburgh is just trying to make sure that Garrett doesn't get the sacchard. It's like, man, Aaron Rogers really just can't ever possibly be in a situation where Miles Garrett gets a clean shot on him ever or the season is over. So yeah, pretty like I think versus is a good player, but he doesn't have anywhere near that type of impact. And I still think they're talented, but I got to see somebody else emerge as like the centerpiece of the defense or the centerpiece of the past, which even though I like Mason Graham and again, I think versus solid. When the run defense also wasn't quite as good as you would expect them to be like,

37:49the Browns have, you're right. They had like a good defensive line outside of Garrett. And like Schwestinger was so good downhill, maybe even better than J. O. K. was, right? But this was still kind of a league average run defense last year. And I think losing a player like Garrett is only going to make it worse and losing Schwarz who is like so good at dialing up these blitz packages. Like I really have a lot of concern for what their defense is going to look like this year. Yeah, they were a bottom five run defense week 10 on by EPA per play. They also weren't going to lead defense in 2024, right? They were so elite in 2023, one of the best of all time, then had this down year, then we're back in 2025. So even with Miles Garrett, they're kind of that team that was yo-yoing up and down a little bit because of issues in the secondary and issues other parts of the line. So they're not safe from kind of yo-yoing back. And I agree, especially with run defense. I like Collins and I like Graham, but it's especially as past rushers. I worry

38:54about them holding up and run defense and everything. I love Schwestinger in coverage and pursuing runs, but he's not the best tackler at this point in his career. So is the run defense really going to kind of bottom out like it was towards the end of last year? I think it's possible. I'm not as high on versus other people. There's just too many panicking back. There's that clip of him against the on talking. Yeah, that clip of him against Dion Dawkins in training camp. I mean, it's a stutter bowl and Dawkins knows it's coming and then just torx and throws him up the field. And you sure it's training camp. But if you search, you're at verse Dion Dawkins, there's like at least three clips out there floating around of Dawkins doing that exact same thing in games. And when I watched him against the 49ers last year, it's verse against Trent Williams. I mean, he's on the ground four times. He's he just doesn't have the the hip flu editing to really sink and hold up. I feel like even in the run game against these really elite tackles who can kind of turn them out. Can he can he kind of leap and come down and stay balanced and absorb all that

39:57power? That's where I get concerned with verse. He can push the pocket. That's for sure. But he just I just will see will time will tell if I'm right, but I just don't think he holds enough of a candle to to get it to save this defense from collapsing. So there's still things to like the the penetrating detacles. There's still good edges with Alex right in verse Russian, the passer, Schwestinger award, Delphit is really underrated as well as a amazing box safety. So there's definitely a team to consider here at number 10, but the run defense ultimately and losing Schwartz is why I should losing Schwartz almost more than losing Garrett is why I have them them. Yeah, I think they could survive losing Garrett if they still had Schwartz losing both. I think it's totally over Matt. Who do you have at number nine? And number nine, I want to the Patriots, even though I was kind of doubtful of them earlier, I looked at everything on paper and said, you know, I think I underrated them in the AFC East

40:57prediction video that we did and they have a very complete secondary. I know they lost Hawkins, but you still have woods and you brought him by or God's O obviously is one of the best corners. You have Davis on the other side and then Barmore and Milton Williams is one of the best interior duos in the NFL. I have questions about, you know, what the edge looks like, of course, because Landry I believe is on I are currently and you also lost Jason who was a really solid player forum last year, but at the same time, I'm kind of interested to see if a full off season of knowing who your defensive coordinator is going to be and having a little bit more time to kind of set in some of the blitzes that you want to do rather than trying to like learn and adjust during the season can kind of make up for some of those material losses, although, you know, Hawkins and Chase on are serious pieces for him who made a lot of good plays. So it's not like it's nothing. Yeah, I do think I think woodson might have been better than Hawkins last year and

42:01oh yeah, Tonga's Tonga's Tonga might be the biggest one honestly. I do think woodson might have been better than Hawkins last year. I do love the buyer edition. Like I think I might just enjoy their secondary more this year than I did last year, but I could kind of see the argument away from that where like, buyer is getting older and the interception stuff is kind of volatile and it's like if he doesn't have that kind of a season again, then you're not really getting a ton of value out of that. But the Patriots, I'm even higher on them than you are mad. I have them here at number six, which puts them, it's kind of sandwiched between two defenses that we all really like, but I won't spoil right now. But the Patriots, I'm really high on because I do really love their secondary and I do really love their interior defensive line unit. It's both like they are able to get such quick wins in pass rush and and they're pretty

43:01solid run defenders as well. So like you can find ways to have I think a good pass rushing unit even without a good, you know, or like a crazy edge duo or crazy edge singular player just because I do think their interior is so good with with bar more and Williams. Yeah, well Williams, what a revelation. I mean, like coming from that Super Bowl team in Philly as a rotational player, getting a hundred million, I thought, you know, maybe that's, you know, the typical contract you look at and say that's a bit of an overpay. But no, I mean, you cannot pay that guy too much money. He's kind of like an edge rusher almost just with how he's able to turn a corner and you can have him stunt and can contain from the edge, you know, find a wins that way. Like he's just such a great athlete. And then bar more just violence like can throw guys put his foot in the ground and really

44:03get with quickly like just shake him out of their shoes, shake guards out of their shoes, like just dominant, dominant wins. The two of them are really, really good. I had them just outside the top 10, but maybe I shouldn't have they were, they were kind of of a middle of the pack defense statistically. If you look at last regular season, but if you include the playoffs, they kind of rise into a moral elite tier with with what they did in that run. And maybe I should think about that sample size add a little bit more than I did. And they also, they also just had a weird year. I think it's fair to point that that like for as bad as their defensive statistics were last year overall, like they had to switch coordinators and they they came along by the end of the season. So I think there's it's fair to not just take that a face value, I should say. Yeah. I'm probably not as high on their corners as you played in like Ganzo's not

45:05in the number one conversation for me. He's like, I think that's probably ranked him number. He's sticks. What? Yeah. He's not in the conversation for number one for you. No. Mike Jackson on Horn or that good. He's not in Sir Tate. Talk here's here. Yeah. I mean, I'm fine to say Sir Tane is one, but like who do you have outside of that? I had my top five corners are actually you had you had Quinion Mitchell. I think yeah. I'm guessing you didn't have to wreak woolen is in there. I had wreak woolen. You're all in on the wrecked woolen stuff. I'm all in on the wreak. Over. I can give you on the wreak woolen is kind of underrated because he had like a couple of notable stinker plays and he wasn't the best corner on his team and that always is tough and somebody's going to get picked on and so and so, but

46:09man over. Gonzo is not stupid. I know he is witherspoon witherspoon probably too. I have I have Sir Tane and Stingley one and two. Oh, and then I had Witherspoon and then I had sauce and woolen and then I'd have and then I'd have Gonzo and McDuffee and Q and then like Horn and then it would go something like that if I extended out past top five. But with Gonzo, my issue with Gonzo is I just think he's ever so slightly. There is a little bit of truth to him like not playing with an edge and in coverage when there's a really tight break like he's kind of willing to just be like, oh, I'll get there. Like I'll react to that. The level of physicality I feel like and the stickiness like the stickiness no matter what happens isn't there with him as much as

47:13it is with some of the other corners. Like I do think he leaves a little bit of air and can make up for it later 100%. Yeah, Clyde is like the best athlete. He's a great athlete and six is it's it's he's an elite player. They should pay him because he can guard whoever weekend a week out, I think. And there's like a tear break, I think, after Q Trent and him and then that's why I trailed off. But anyway, I'm probably not quite as high on the corner duo of Gonzo and Carlton Davis is you are. But I do love number 25 Marcus Jones shout out. You are on beautiful moving corner back hater watch that's also you also said Jermann McCoy is horrible and terrible and hated him so so so much. Theo Tories ACL that's we want dogs at corn. We want some dogs. Gonzo is

48:15a dog. Jermann I want I want I want I want the beautiful movers person. I want beautiful movers. I think that's what you hate. Well, and the most beautiful mover of them all. I don't hate rule. I don't hate. Well, and I was the most beautiful mover of them all. That's why I was hard to put them out of the top. Like he's the number one mover. Yeah, but I. He's a little bit he's he's got a bit of Trevor digs. He's got a slight Trevor digs gene and he's also. He also has a bit of a hot head. He has a very hot head. I mean, he had a bunch of 15 yard penalty and that's what makes Gonzo so good is he is the most cool calm collected dude on the field. He is low cortisol. He is very low cortisol and you want that for corners. People love like Richard Sherman because of the the trash talk and whatever. But like I would rather my corner just be cool calm collected short term memory and get right back at it. Yeah, because

49:18it's a tough position mentally. I think you might be right. This used to be more children like Steve Smith's wearing the league or whatever and they were trying to bother you and get those 15 yard penalties. Yeah. So Oh, don't go with Josh. Norman beef. Mm hmm. Gonzo would not have gotten that taunting. But no. Once you've gotten that taunting, you've got to stop taunting, right? Once that's happy, you got it out of lock it. He's got it out of lock it. So I have a mid three. Come on. Genuinely like he's got to be more disciplined like he didn't get he didn't get the big contract. He deserves the almost cost than the NFC championship game. It's a new reek wool and going forward. That's what the world isn't ready for. Anyway, it's going to be a heck of a reek wool and apparently. But yes, do you have it nine? I have the Vikings at nine. This is a little lower than I thought.

50:18But I mean, you've listed just the good players and the podium players as I like to say, imagine the Vikings in the Super Bowl. Who do you go into see? I mean, for the Texans, I'll see Stingley and I'll see Hunter and I'll see Will Anderson and Petri and Lasseter and Al Shire like holy cow. That's kind of unfair though. That's that defense is crazy. Okay, even the Steelers. I'll see Wat and I'll see Hayward and I'll see Ramsey and I'll see her bag and you know, or Joey Porter Jr. Like, yeah, that I can imagine that. And then I'm like writing down the players for the Vikings. This is the most rudimentary kind of analysis. And I'm like, Blake Cashman is the first name I wrote down. I was like, man, that's definitely like the worst first name to write down in the top. You didn't write down Ivan Pace first. Interesting. I mean, you could, although Eric Wilson kind of didn't Eric Wilson also go to Sincies or something though. He did. Okay, I believe so unless I'm getting confused. I think he did. He did. Yeah,

51:26he did. Shout out. Yeah. So I don't know. I still have the Vikings at nine, even though they lost Grenard and a bunch of their veterans, which I mentioned in the Hayward episode, just because Brian Flores will hit them with the Brian Flores blast. Like, I just love watching Brian Flores coordinate defenses. It just takes on its own kind of living breathing thing. Like, it almost seems like they're not following X's and O's or anything drawn up. They just kind of understand where the pressure is coming from and where they need to contain. I mean, he'll rush two guys and create this squeeze on the quarterback. And then the rest of the defensive line will just kind of be standing there with their hands up. And it's the worst kind of pocket to be in. Like, it's so tall. The pressure is hitting instantly from a linebacker. And it's not a star player, but it's still hitting because the pressure is just designed so good. And then everybody else is just containing super beautifully. Like you got Van Gankle or Dallas Turner just standing,

52:30waiting to snap, snatch you up. You've got six foot five Kayla Banks in the middle or whatever, who's not even trying to rush you. He's just waiting to batch you down. And they know where they're going to throw the football. And they know what your beaters are. It's really cool to watch. They'll pinch both of the corners and have the safety's taken on with both corners blitzing. I mean, it's so gutsy. It's so unsound. And it just seems to work. So even though there's not a ton of star power on the Vikings, even in the secondary, even the safety's who think would be like an all star pair of safeties because they got to cover so much. They're kind of not, but they just seem to be at the perfect landmark on on every play, on every call. And like, if Florida is going to get them right like that, it almost doesn't matter who the who the personnel are because it's it's just they're in the right spot. It does matter to a limit. I mean, if they add the person out, we put them in number one. Yeah, probably way.

53:31So I think we're being relatively fair with the discount here, but I agree with you. I mean, the play that everyone I feel like was talking about from I think their first preseason game against the Giants was that first sack on Jackson Dart where they just they lined up like they were going to send the house and they just sent the house. And then and not only did they do that, they correctly predicted Darts first read in every single DB turned and ran to that spot. And it's like I got into a second read. It would have been a touchdown, but they just like knew that he wouldn't right. They know where your hot start like they'll send the blitz from just half of the formation. Then the other half will all go out and you're like, damn, like I just they just beat me like that. It's like a chess master. It it's just over. And then people are freaking out about him in preseason. Like, oh, he's he's dialing up the crazy stuff in preseason. This is their base defense. This is what they're doing all that this is vanilla, probably. They're just practicing what they're going to do on first down. Like sometimes like it's just it's it's awesome.

54:36It really is. Yeah. I will say I do think Blake Cashman is the best player on this defense is probably not the case. So it's a I mean, doubt jealous turner and Van Ginkler and those boys. Yeah. I don't know. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's turners pretty freaking good. I think Turner's gonna have a big year. The the thing for me too is that for a lot of this offseason, I looked at their you know, some of their high draft picks. I think I said the exact same thing on the last episode we were doing about everybody. And it's like, you know, I don't really love banks at 18 or anything. He's just an interesting player and a defense that I know is probably going to be good regardless of what I think of the players or gold. I mean, to be honest with you man, staying in this game really, really interesting in this game. He's, you know, super, super athletic. He moves really well for somebody his size. You can see why he like converted from, you know, adger defensive end, but he is really, really slow in terms of his processing

55:44sometimes. And there's a lot of times where it just feels like he is so far away from being ready to make a play on the ball and coverage or to break on a route and really go and and and try to, you know, put some pressure on the receiver. It makes me nervous a little bit on everything just playing out perfectly, especially with banks where it's just like, well, he, he's got pretty big foot issues, you know, and yeah, I like Flores, but I don't think he can prevent injuries from happening, of course. So yeah, he's causing his Flores blast to prevent injuries. Basically, I mean, I had him at seven. So I'm not saying that I any lower on them than you guys, but yeah, I thought that I would have the more like solidly in the top five. And then you sit back and take a look and say, well, I love Flores, but the talent is the talent at some point. And I think I'm going to have to move them down just a little bit. Yeah. And you can bypass these schemes by running the football, right? Like, let's just, let's just keep things simple. Let's run it. And if they want to have a scheme or

56:49half their line bales or something like that, like they can, they can do that. So if they can't hold up in the run game, then they'll have to get a lot less creative overall. That's where I get concerned about them is if they start to have to get static and just like, they can't be so unsound on the back end because they just don't have Harrison Smith anymore to make you right or whatever it is like they just can't, they got to be a little bit more predictable if the talent starts to fail. Right. Matt, you have the Vikings at seven. Who do you have at eight? I have the Jacksonville Jaguars at eight. Okay. Very talented, very talented defensive line, very talented front seven to be honest with you. I know we're upset about Lloyd and whatnot, but ultimately, like, I don't think there's many themes that can boast multiple really strong edges like the Jaguars can. And on top of that, I, we've talked about it all off season. I think Hunter is a really big addition to this defense and getting him in a position where he can be a playmaker consistently. It's been a

57:51weird start to the career and all the conversation around him is kind of negative because I mean, they traded up for him as if he was going to be a two way player. And the reality is, at least for this season, it seems he's going to be a corner who can go and play in a wide receiver, but you don't even really care about it that much because the Jaguars are very deep at receiver at the moment. They have so many guys where you're like, well, why should I care? I have four or five guys. I feel like you can target and I'm happy with. So how often is Hunter going to get to run out on that end? I'm not sure. But on this side of the ball, you're still getting somebody who is an incredible athlete with incredible ball skills, who I think is going to help them maintain some of the turnover, turnover differential that they saw last year, especially early in the season. They were really, really great with it. Some of it was Lloyd. We'll see if losing him is just a death sentence, but I feel like there's enough talent here for me to feel pretty solid about them as

58:52a top 10 defense still. Yeah, the front, the front seven is still very, very good Matt. You're absolutely right there. I, I have them just outside of my top 10 kind of in that same two with the Saints. I am a little bit worried about the turnovers going down and I was already kind of, I'm a little bit lower on their secondary than you guys are, but I've been trying to come around on it more and try not to just picture former Cleveland Brown's legend who shall not be named getting torched night and day out there. He's not, yeah, he's not even on. He's not, he's not even on the team anymore, right? He's a giant. Jordan Lewis is a good player and I do, and I do still really like Travis Hunter, even if he is only going to be playing defense. We're only talking about defenses today. So there is, there is a world where they're definitely in this spot. And I think eight is a fair placement for them, but they just missed for my list. And it's also, it's, it's nice that there's such a strong run defense, even with Lloyd leaving the pieces they have in

59:55the run game feel strong. And with the NFL moving more and more towards like we're trying to make you adjust to our ability to run the ball and get big and then build off of that. Maybe it's good to have a defense that I feel like is better against the run right now. Yeah. Trave on Walker, Josh Heinz Allen, two big heavy edges and then DeFont Hamilton, who's probably an underrated nose tackle. That third spot is Eric Arps, dead. Maybe that's a bit of a weakness in the run game. And then moving on from Lloyd, ventral Miller is probably more of like a a CJ Allen type kind of, the T Rex, the upper. So maybe, so maybe their run defense is like really high. Maybe I'm kind of as you blatant where I worry about the turnovers kind of bouncing the other way. They forced a lot of fumbles last year and recovered the highest rate of them in the league. Antonio Johnson had six interceptions. Devon Lloyd had six interceptions. They played a lot of kind of

1:00:58spot drop zone and got picked off a lot of passes that way. I don't know if it'll quite go that way again, but I was really laboring over them or the Saints. Honestly, it was them or the Saints who to put it number 10. So they're probably I say I said a lot of guys are kind of near that top 10 range. Yeah. If you look at my sheet, it's Jaguars crossed out and then Saints. So they're really the ones I was thinking about. Yeah. I mean, like we've said, there's, there is kind of a pretty big tear drop. And you get some of the defenses. Let me ask the listener something. Does it does it do anything for you guys? Does it make you feel any better? But we like leave your team off or your favorite player off. We're like, we thought about it. Oh, I was thinking about it so hard. It was unbelievable. I was thinking about it. I almost didn't turn the camera on. I almost didn't plug in my bike. I couldn't put a hardly joined Riverside for the podcast. I was too busy thinking about it. It's too busy thinking about it. Yeah, we,

1:01:58if the episode comes out a day late sometimes, just because we were thinking about it, it was doing that much thinking before we left your team off and for others. But at number seven here, I have the Baltimore Ravens where I, I, it's kind of, I already said I have the Patriots at six. So the Patriots, I have just above Baltimore here. Baltimore, we've already talked about. We're really high on the edition of Jesse Minter. I think Kyle Hamilton is one of the five best players, 10 best players in the sport right now. And I do think they're different of lines going to be better now that they've got Matt B. K. back having Kleeous Campbell there, like having just Matt B. K. Travis Jones Campbell. It's just a healthier, stronger defensive line than it was last year, hoping for a bounce back from Rhoquan Smith and hoping the addition of Terrey Hendrixson allows them to get some quicker pressures than they've been able to get in the past. I am nervous about the cornerback room. That is the

1:03:02one thing that gives me pause, but I'm hoping with them being able to get more pressure and maybe just the Jesse Minter blasts can, can elevate them a little. I honestly do believe the Jesse Minter blast will save any, any issues with this Baltimore defense to be real with you. I mean, the big thing that I was worried about is like, okay, where do you get the pass rush from with Baltimore? Because you can game things up, but you do want there to be a level of like we have pass rushing talent. Hendrixson, I think, solves that. I agree about the defensive line being really deep. You've got, again, like the dudes you said, Zion Young, we'll see if I green can be a designated pass rush or piece and have a bigger season. There's a lot to look at on that defensive line, but Minter is just incredibly deceptive in the way that he lines up, who he's going to drop back into coverage and where guys are going. It's really tough for quarterbacks to read. We saw a Chargers defense that was fine, but was not overly talented. I think really overachieve last

1:04:02year because Minter was so creative. So when you bring that into a defense that I think has a lot of talent already, yeah, they were six for me and I could see them pushing even higher things break their way. It's fair to bring up. Yeah, Marlon Humphrey was really bad last year. I mean, really, really like total fall off mode, but at the same time, I still feel like the second theory is pretty talented overall outside of that. I mean, I like Wiggins even though he maybe didn't like completely break out the way that we thought you got Starks there. They brought in Hawkins and then Kyle Hamilton is the best safety in the NFL by a pretty wide margin. And to give Minter a chess piece like Hamilton who can go and do so much and place it close to the line and be great over the top. Yeah, I'm really excited about them. Yeah, Starks. Starks, I was, I should say, pleasantly surprised for the sake of I was low on him, but I've always been just a general fan of

1:05:04the Ravens defensive players. But yeah, I was lower on him in the draft and he has ended up being quite good. So that's that is a good thing for them. I'm excited to see Hamilton in the scheme. And I'm excited to see Reauquan in this scheme again. I feel like he's he's a bit forgotten about, but probably more useful than his reputation is right now. Like he's extremely violent throwback, old school linebacker with coverage skills. You can't ask for too much more than that. I think he got blamed for some issues last year that were just like poor coaching. I just don't think they had a lot of answers, especially at the beginning of this season to like two tight ends on the field. They would just like stretch out a past rushing front front really far and try to defend the run that way. And they would just get killed because there were, you know, two gaps next to each other open. And it's like, Penaisu will can climb free to Reauquan Smith and tag him. And then there's like, nope, there's nobody to either side of Reauquan to help out. It's it was

1:06:08it was some really bad stuff. So I'm hoping that mentor can get some of these frustrating issues that I've seen over the last couple of seasons with a Baltimore fixed. And no, yeah, I'm just concerned about the edges really. I think the spine of this defense with Travis Jones and Mattabique and Reauquan and Hamilton and Starks is just like ridiculous. Like good luck going over the middle. Good luck running up the middle. But you know, is Zion Young and and Trey Hendrix in ready to defend the run really well out on the edge and are the corners really ready to cover on the edge. Those are my questions as well. But I think the core of the defense is good enough and mentor is good enough where I put them at number five. Oh wow. Okay. So do you who do you have it six then? Six. I'm at seven. What? I thought I already saints Viking Steelers 10, 9, 8. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Who's your Simon? Okay. Yeah. Yes. Who is your guess?

1:07:13Your guess of who you have maybe a little strangely low potentially. Strangely high. Oh, strangely high. Oh, man, I thought I thought you were going to be low on somebody. I miscounted. Who do you have? You have strangely high. Hmm. That's the key. We got to give me no. No, I asked. No, I want this one. Yeah. No, I did just go ahead. The green paybackers. Oh, come on. My first though. My first thought was he's better than that. No, dude. I think the Browns might have a better defense than them. Come on. Come on. Let's not get crazy. Crazy. Well, you know, honestly, I mean, I mean, it is crazy. No, this is crazy high for the green paybackers, but yeah, this is crazy high, but let me put them, but let me do this.

1:08:16Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's your list. It's my list and I'm sitting there thinking about how I can push the agenda. And I'm like, well, why am I doing about this defense so much anyway? Like, what's really the problem here that's so bad because the year before last, they worse the seventh best defense by EPA per play. And I was thinking about that a little bit. I'm like, well, they were really great against defending deep, deep shots with a lot of the same personnel that they've gotten now. They had two great safeties and Xavier McKinney and Evan Williams. And those guys, I think really did a good job just preventing explosives. They played a lot of cover two and put a lot of onus on them. And I don't even think that halfly was like a ridiculous defensive coordinator. And they still got those results two years ago. I'll say, and they got a lot of interceptions. That's that's the main reason they were up. So, but it's like, can they have the upside to get up there again, I think, because I think Jonathan Ganon has, I think he's a really

1:09:21good defensive coordinator. And I think he did a good job with what he had in in Arizona. I don't think he had a lot to work with down there. I think it was boot a baker and for one season, Josh Sweat and a lot of and a couple games of Walter Nolan. And I felt apart, like just straight up injury wise by the end of the year. And then they were giving up like 35 every single game or whatever. Yeah. And they had a really good, they had a really good plan and pressure plan. I feel like like there's a there's a clip that I found the other day of that I posted when again, it was in Arizona. And they are swarming almost positionless. And Dak is like looking at the defense and he's making calls and has to eventually call a time out because he just cannot get a read on what is going on. And last season on third, on third down, the Cardinals had one of the most efficient past past rushes and past defenses in the NFL. I've been playing around with the win percentage filter on our BSTM until it tells me the story

1:10:25that I wanted to tell. But if you if you filter out like the 10% outcomes where the game is like 30 to zero or 30 to seven, like there's the other team has a 9% chance to win anymore. And you kind of cut off all those plays. The Cardinals had the best third down past defense kind of by kind of a decent margin last season. So I was wondering if if I and my number one frustration with the Packers last year was just the lack of details in there in their past rush paths like Michael would get the guy off the spot and just no one was there to clean it up. And I just wonder if Gannon can do a decent job getting that done a little bit better. I think they have the personnel. I think Javon Hargrave helps out in the pressure department like he he had over 20 quick pressures last year. He had as many as Jared Versa. I remember that it was like top 20 in the league and quick pressures

1:11:28last season. I thought he had more juice than I initially realized. And I just I just wondered if the Packers with their safeties and Cooper and Micah had a little bit more of a ceiling as a defense or just because they disappointed last year, let's say, can they kind of get back on track and be what they were supposed to be before the Micah trade with him trend and to come back after week four. Will this is this rosy? Yes, very rosy, extremely rosy putting them above the Vikings is probably crazy. But I'm I'm put my faith in Mr. Gannon and I hope he I hope he rewards me. So after the Cowboys game that the Cardinals play last year, they gave up over 40 points the next two weeks, which is not awesome. So whatever they confused deck with everybody else figured out apparently. It may have been a couple of years ago. I think my Cardinals defense stat was at the first eight games.

1:12:31They were like 16th and EPA per plane and the back nine they were 30 second or something like that. They really just like totally fell apart in large part because of injury. I see the vision. I mean, Micah is the type of guy where unless the rest of the defense is truly horrible, I think there's a path the ranking very highly and defensive metrics and he's somebody you have to just build everything around avoiding if you're an offense. And the Packers defense has other talented players. Like you said, it's not like I believe those guys aren't very good. But in the way that you're looking at like, well, here were the results in 2024 and what's different. I would say I would wonder what's different enough from last year. And really, I guess my the feeling is number one, Micah is not on this defense to start the year. Yeah, maybe by the end of the season, he'll be good to go. But it's hard to know what that ramp up process is going to look like. And then number two, did they do enough to fix where they were as a

1:13:36run defense? It was hardgrave and Franklin. It's like, man, that answer right now for me is no, they didn't. And maybe Ganon, maybe Ganon, he is the extra factor if he can kind of anticipate calls and plug certain gaps with blitzes. Like, he's going to have to do a lot of painting over ugly spots because yeah, the starting lineup without Micah Parsons, I think they're all guys who can slot in decently well and play their role decently well around Micah. But man, those first four weeks, they'll probably barely be hanging on. And then the corners as well, like Nixon and Carrington, Valentine or bad tacklers, somewhat talented cover guys, but you know, overly aggressive in coverage and then underly aggressive in the run game. C say though, has looked extremely nice so far in preseason and in camp, crazy athlete doing a great job staying patient in the square in man coverage on the line. Good closing speed to tackles. I think his form could

1:14:37use a little bit of work and and all the nuances of all the calls and when to trigger in the run game could use a little bit of work, but he's got me a little bit excited too. So let me we've talked to death about every fucking team. Let me do some wild shit on this episode. We're not specifically about the and it's just a coincidence that it's just the packet that it happened. And Matt, you have the panthers on here too, right? Yeah, yeah, I got a big hypocrite. I know you've got a pain through this. Oh yeah, that's my issue. I'm always too positive about the panthers. I've always got them a little too high. I'm always expecting too much. Matt, who do you have it six? Did we already talk about your six? Baltimore. Baltimore. So then Theo, you're six and then that'll get us like our bottom five of this top 10. I have the Broncos at six. Okay. I see your vision. It feels a little low and people are going to comment on that, but go ahead. I mean, I have a five.

1:15:40I don't think it's so easy. No, I have yes, no, I'm yes, I have them a five. I thought I had the Patriots mixed up there. Five six. Who cares? I'm saying, would you all hate me if I move the Patriots above the Broncos here? I wouldn't hate it at all. But it's yeah, I wouldn't hate it. Hate to strong word. The Almighty of the Broncos at six. I think the Broncos have a great secondary. That's why they're this high. I mean, I think Riley Moss going back and watching is someone that I've given a little bit too much hate to like opposite Sir Tan. Yeah, he gets picked on a lot because for that reason and yeah, it gets a lot of DPI's, but his pure movement and his ability to like mirror a comeback route or a break to the outside. It might be it's better than Sir Tan's, I think. Like it's so, his springs back downhill are so ridiculously good that it's just hard to complete passes on him.

1:16:44Like if it wasn't for the DPI's, we'd be talking about a corner and just a different stratus here than the way we currently talk about him. And I the more I watch, the more I kind of grew an appreciation for him with Sir Tan. And then HaFongo, right as a free hitter in the box, is really good. They've got both McMillan and Baron as depth for that nickel spot. It's a really, really great secondary that's hard to get open on. And then you have Benito like crashing on the outside and put in a timer on everything. It's a really, really great formula. And the only reason they're at six instead of five or even higher is it's just failed. I think on big stages and at the end of last year and against good teams and MVP candidates in the past, like Burrow and Jackson and Alan, they've been able to score a lot of points on the Broncos. Even the Packers have been able to score a lot of points on the Broncos. I think their defensive tackles in the run game are maybe a little overrated. I'm not the biggest

1:17:48Zach Allen fan. I think Jonathan Franklin Myers and Zach Allen are both good players. But I don't think Zach is like great. And Franklin Myers is like just okay. I don't think there's that big dichotomy. So when they use Franklin Myers, I don't think I think that's a big loss. And Zach Allen remaining doesn't move me like like they've got JJ Watt in there or something. So that in the linebackers makes me think this is a team you can run the ball on a little bit. Play action on take advantage of their aggressiveness a little bit. Yeah, the reason why I have them a little bit lower of like I think the set kind of elite defenses of which I would say there's five and then I put the Ravens in that tier because I'm really high on what they're going to be. But the reason I have a little lowers because they lost some serious pieces on this defensive line and that does matter. I don't think it means that their past rush is doomed because Zach Allen and Benito is better than what most teams have. And like you said, they also have a great second theory plus Riley Moss. It's probably the most given take about a number two

1:18:48cornerback ever. But like he has the hardest job imaginable on the other side from Sir Tan and then on the team that plays the most man and I doesn't blitz the most. There's probably top three and the right at which it blitzes. Yeah, this is all I know it's behind the Vikings for sure though. So I'm really high on them. I think they'll be a great defense again. But like you said, I think I'm a little higher on my other four elite defenses or I feel like they've they're either working from a little bit higher of a place last year like the Seahawks or maybe they've added like the Eagles who I have ahead of though. Yeah. And Jim Leonard is gone. That's a little bit of brain drain. I will say this they picked off a surprising few amount of passes last year. That's a big deal. And that could break that could break the other way. That's a good point. That is true. I am going to move the Patriot ahead of them which maybe that I wish the Patriots had

1:19:54a Benito or that's the thing is they really do lack a pure speed rusher off the edge but they're secondary just kicks so much as I think. And so does Denver's but I think I like I think I like New England secondary more. I'm pretty easily on Denver's secondary over. Yeah, that's because you hate Gonzo so it point invalid. Fair. So real quick before we get into the rest of our top five or just into our top five here just run through your 10 through six. I have cult Steelers Vikings Ravens Broncos going from 10 to six. Have the Steelers Pat's Jags Vikings Ravens. I got Saints Viking Steelers Packers Broncos Ravens that's five through 10. Packers just cracks me up and that's so is it five. So yeah, we're just down to my top four. Yep, so Matt, you have the Broncos at

1:20:54five. I have the Patriots at five now Theo. Who do you have at number five? The Ravens, the Ravens. Okay. Oh yes, yes, we already did. Okay, so we're getting into the four here. Matt, give me who your number four is. Philadelphia Eagles. We've talked about them a lot. So you know how we feel about everybody. I mean, the corners are elite. If you don't have to think Wollin is what the four full best in the NFL to be really high on them between him and Mitchell, the athleticism that they have on the outside is ridiculous and then Kubegin obviously as a nickel is fantastic as well. They're a little questionable at safety. Matt and BK is not coming off of like an amazing rookie year like frankly, I thought he was going to have. So between that and then losing blank. Now what do they mean? Kubek, yeah, I'm going to be in my fault. Between that, like it's not great, but I just feel like outside of that. I mean, the linebackers are the best in the NFL, Campbell and his coverage

1:21:59ability, his movement from that position is unbelievable and bond is obviously still the player. He was, you know, he's been for the last few years. The defensive line, it's a little shaken up, but ultimately I have a hard time believing that Carter is not going to rebound if he's healthy and the same is true for Garnard. So I think they'll have multiple high end pass rushers. I think they're well positioned to be maybe the best they've been in a minute to be honest. If this is the best version of the Fangeo Eagles defense, would it surprise you? I don't think so. I agree with you. Their linebackers are unbelievable. I think this is the best linebacker secondary combo in the NFL, right? With the linebackers and corners they have, even if the safety play is a little bit, isn't quite the level that you think it is. Bond, Campbell, Wolin, Mitchell and D'Aginne is as good

1:22:59as it gets just going like straight across, right? Just what is that? The best like intermediate zone in the NFL is probably what I would say. It's scary to think that they could be the best version of the Fangeo Eagles because they were the, if you include the playoffs, at least in the Super Bowl that they had, they were the best defense in the league by EPA per play in 2024. The best. That's true. I had the Vikings ahead of the Texans like I had everybody and especially if you make the Win percentage filter, say what you want. Well, maybe maybe that's a lofty expectation and there's so many, I think you're right, defensive. But like on paper, again, it really just comes down to where the pass rushers are for me. It's the biggest swing factor by far, but if they're good to go, man, I think you're going to be ridiculous. Bond is so good. Like I have the Eagles at three actually and I don't blame you. And you have the Seahawks at four. I do. Okay. Yeah,

1:24:00so I have, I went back and forth on that forever. That was the hardest decision I think to make on this list was Eagles versus Seahawks. And I know you're upset that you're at four. I ended up putting the Seahawks above the Eagles. But I do think it's just because Seattle, even though they lost some guys and that's kind of what I was weighing was like, well, how, how much am I going to weigh, you know, some of their losses like Wolen because I know Seahawks fans just don't think, what is that good? And they're like not pressed about that loss. But I do think it's a big, a big player to lose. But I do think they kept the core pieces of what makes this defense really, really good. And I think those core pieces are better than the Eagles core pieces, right? And so that's why I have them above like Leonard Williams, DeMarcus Lawrence, Ernest Jones is a really big piece of this defense. The Wozu is still a really good player with their spoons. One of the best corners in the

1:25:03league. Julian Love was a very strong safety for them. And Eman Worry is kind of in that Hamilton role. He can do a little bit of everything. So they are just so dynamic and so explosive still that I do think they're atop three defense in the league. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to bet against Seahawks, one of the best defenses of all time. Yeah. When they were just one of the best defense as ever and one the super and I agree, Bladen, they lost some serious players. But did they keep everybody who like really makes them what they are and allows them to do what they want to do? I think the answer is yes, they did. Yeah. I mean, they kept the defensive tackle duo in Seattle, Leonard Williams, and Byron Murphy. I think number one, that's what allows them to do it. They want to do. Be a nickel, no matter what. Doesn't matter if the Rams are in 13 personnel. The Seahawks will be out there and nickel and they'll they'll stuff the run like they're engaging eight because they've got the best two gapers in the league. They've got Eman Worry who turned into a very good

1:26:04run defending nickel last season. It was even more of a demon against the past. I mean, his NFC championship came and all that. But I almost think that the Eagles have like, they might have better core pieces like just star power. A lot of it is dependent on Carter because Carter last year, I'm not putting at the level of Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy. But if you get a version of Carter that you got as a rookie. And it's somewhat a big if and maybe it's too big of an if to rank them ahead of the Seahawks. Like you get him in Jordan Davis, then like the focus falls to like bond and camp on the back side and how athletic those guys are compared to who the Seahawks have. And then you have this this idea that I mean, they have Cooper to Jean Q and Rik Wolland. That might be the best three corners on the same team that I've ever seen. Like, yeah, I think about their their Bengals game two years

1:27:06back when they won the Super Bowl and how they allowed like zero yack at all to to Jamar Chase and NT Higgins and them like it's they've they've had elite performances and they've got a guy who again, I think is the best mover now in Rik Wolland in the entire NFL like length, pure on speed ability to redirect like all of it. It's a scary sight. They've got two lot of it depends on right. He was another one of those super special movers and they've got you know, dejeans this also great run defender just like even their athleticism and coverage is wild between the linebackers and the corners. I agree. And that's that's pretty special. I don't know if anybody can match it. I will say, I mean, I know you're so high on Wolland. I guess it's not even worth bringing up, but like I do think the Texans give them a run for their money and take it. Yeah, in covering and corners and coverage in general. Yeah. I just I just think like if you had to imagine one of these top four defenses failing without like

1:28:13Piles skirt get hurt. Okay. Like one of them failing. It would be that Carter and Grinard is not as good as we're imagining and they're both coming off of rest seasons and it's not just like they're healthy and awesome and everything's back to normal. So that makes me a hair lower on them, but I think all of these top four it would not surprise me to see them as the number one defense, even without like, oh, we had the most interceptions because we just got the breaks or we had like a million force fumbles that we recovered or something like that. This top four. Oh, this top four. I feel like the Super Bowl champion is going to come from this top four. Like it's such a tear. Well, that's the Rams are the Rams are in there. And we'll talk around. I think it'll be the Eagles Seahawks or Texans guys. I know it's Houston. There's so much that arrives on their offence for that. Matt, where do you have Seattle? I have them at three. Okay. So then we all have the same top two then right here. We'll talk about

1:29:16the Houston Texans or maybe we should just before we get into both of them until we can talk about them in tandem a little bit. Do you want to tell us about our good friend over at dabble fantasy? Yeah, we'll call this the the elite of the elite segment. Before we get into it, I do have to say this episode is brought to you by dabble fantasy. One of the reasons we've been enjoying dabble is that it feels like more than just another DFS app. You can follow your friends or creators, see what everyone's playing and interact with people before kick off. I don't know what they're saying in there right now. It's probably like, is anyone else? Is anyone else feeling the Rams art all that like they're just too stacked? That's probably what's the chats that are happening. It's I'm telling you when Aaron Donald signed, people got lower on them. It's weird. They're like, he's not that big of a he's not that big of an addition actually. It's it's almost like it hit the scales and they like they got too greedy and will now be

1:30:18burned like that that that seems to be the mentality. I just the more big time names they stack up, the more the higher the expectations become, but the issue is that there's kind of a limit on how likely you can be to win the Super Bowl to be honest with you just because the nature of football, the nature of yeah, you know, it's it's not the NBA. It's not a seven game series. It's it's a one game tournament and there's like maybe 10 possessions for each team. So it only takes a hand full of mistakes for you to lose a game. So it does feel like, you know, the way we'll kind of look at them going into the season, it's a disaster if they don't win the Super Bowl basically. I mean, that's there and they should feel like the crazy heavy favorite, but the reality is like, you know, they're like a one in four chance. Yeah. All right. They're actually given the Rams. They're flowers. A Rin Tempest sort of someone said Rams versus Bronco's Super Bowl. Bo about to

1:31:20take Donald's ACL like he did. Well, he's unnecessary. And then another one says, other one says Rams, about to be scary. Glad I got they defense on fantasy. He's just like you played in. He's just like me. So Theo, they're actually replying with. Oh, yeah. If you follow the account, stay hot pod, you'll see the picks that I made. We're talking about the defense. Defense is on this episode. So I made that kind of pick if I can if I can maneuver around and find it here. Let's see. Here we go. Okay. So this is a week one thing. I'm looking at the Houston defense, the Baltimore defense, and then the Packers and Vikings defense. So I went James Cook under 70 and a half rushing yards, say flowers, less than 64 and a half receiving yards, saw silent Kyler Murray, less than 232 and a half passing yards short in law of less than 241 and a

1:32:27half passing yards. So that's my all defensive play there. So you can follow stay hot pot and see every pick that we make over the course of the year. Download dabble today. Use code stay hot. And when you play your first $5, you'll get $10 in bonus cash. You actually get 50 now. 50. Yeah. They just updated it. They're just giving up this. They get a little way. Yeah. It's crazy, dude. It's crazy. So and especially the theo go in all unders right after the all doom episode. People were saying, I don't know how often you guys read comments every day pretty much. But they were saying they've never seen you so happy to be evil Theo and and dooming. Doing's fun. Eat just get to be the scientist that's like see in the meteor coming and be at

1:33:28Mike. We're all gonna die. Like it's it's I'm sure there's a lot to say to say we're all gonna die or something. It's a fun rule to step into. Okay. Would you rather hit on a guy who is like seventh round draft pick your pounding the table for them. And everybody else is like, I don't know. We'll even say it's like a quarterback. So it's not just like, I love this defensive tackle. And everybody is just like, yeah, it sounds cool. Yeah. They're like, you are we like are we serious with this that type of stuff, which I feel like only really happens for Cubase. Yeah. And you're right or or would you rather the other way around? There's a number one overall pick. Everyone's like, yeah, sure fire. And you're saying, nope, you guys are wrong. This guy stinks and gets so would you rather be really high on Brock party in pre draft or really low on like Zach Wilson or maybe Jamar. That's probably the real world examples, but I'm thinking I've done it. I'm thinking even I've done them both ways. I mean, Kukka. Kukka was on my sleeper episodes. I

1:34:35said, like, I think this guy has a sleeper. I picked him up into my dynasty league, like after the draft in the middle of June 2023, probably the greatest fantasy move in the history of the world because it's dynasty. And I still have them on my roster today. So I've done that. And I've also looked at Zach Wilson or or JJ McCarthy or or guys like that and and they're not all that and they haven't been. I think it's better to be really, I mean, I think it's harder. It's in fact, it's way harder to look to go through a day three pick and be like, this guy's great. And then he actually is like that, that is so much more rare and the odds that are so low. I mean, the odds that are first round quarterback ends up being bad is like, actually, I'm kind of high. Well, that's I feel comfortable let pulling the trigger on takes like that. That's why I'm kind of adjusting here, though, because the flip side is that there's a lot more risk with hating on a number one overall quarterback than there is with like, hyping up Pukka, Nakuwa pre draft. Like,

1:35:40if you were wrong about that, would anyone care? Would it make any difference? Like, no, there's not like a bunch of people who would get you for that. But it like, if you hate on number and overall quarterback, and you're wrong, you could be really, really, really, really so wrong. So that's my adjustment there is like, okay, for a quarterback late round, even it's different. Like, Drew Aller, for instance, I know he's not like a day three seventh round pick guy. But Aller would be somebody where I feel like being the Aller dude does kind of get some, some flames torgia. Yeah. Here's what I'll say. I think when it when like Pukka hit, it surprises even me. Like, I'm like, I didn't think he'd be that good. So I don't even feel that right, you know, because you're like, it's hard to say like, oh, this guy is going to be the best, this is the best wide receiver in the league or the best quarterback in the league. And he's just sitting there for anybody to take. Like, if I felt that way about it, and I was right, yes, I'd rather have that happen. But just to

1:36:41identify, this is like one of my guys or, you know, I like this guy. I think he's a sleeper and then he ends up being great. It's like, well, like, I'm glad I was right, but I almost can't fully claim it because like, I didn't think he'd be this good. Whereas when a top pick ends up being bad, I usually feel like, actually, this was kind of how I envisioned it going. Like, I do feel more fully vindicated or more fully corrected where I thought he'd slotted. So maybe it is the haters thing. And I'd rather like identify a, like a problem in judgment at the top than that an error at the bottom. I actually think I, but I don't think I've experienced like the full like man, this guy, Felipe, if Felipe Frank says the best quarterback in the league today, maybe I feel differently. Yeah. I mean, you can, you'll never, are you ever going to be like, well, this student, the fifth round is like literally wide receiver one. There's just no point of doing that to yourself. You know what I mean? Like, this is what this is what I'm thinking. And I'm realizing

1:37:45is that like usually you just like hedge because you just say, and not not even like a hedge, you just believe it to you. Like, well, this guy's a sleeper like this guy would be awesome. Pick and the fourth round. Whereas like, wait, my sleeper is awesome. My number one, and he's going to go on this round. And I don't, I don't get why that's happening. He's just go to men. When Connerley wins protector of the year, I'll be vindicated. Eventually, you've got if Connerley wins protector of the year, that's better than calling like Zach Wilson as a, oh, casual curb, copat, that for sure. It would be among the very greatest draft takes of all time. I would honestly, one, possibly stand to it. If Conner, Lou wins protector of the year, because he have to do it as a rookie, no. Okay. Just ever. I would, I mean, because you were pretty steadfast on the fact that he's just awesome and like should have gone in the first round, dude. I would have said in the first round. Yeah. I'd say if he wins the protector of the year at any point in his career, you're stamped.

1:38:47If he's first team all pro, shit, I'll give you that. Any point. Yeah. First team all pro. If he gets a close third place, we'll take it. Second team all pro, do I get a nod for second team all pro? We'd say that's pretty damn good, too. Okay. Okay. But not quite as stamped as first team. Fair enough. The Houston Texans, we all have, I assume, is the number two defense in the league unless anyone's bold enough to put them in. Hell no. I got them at number one. No, I'm buddy. Number one. Wait, what? Oh, yeah. Number one. Oh, so I'm the only one who is the Rams at number one. Interesting. Okay. Well, then let's talk. The real, the real difference, I think, between the two of them is Shire. Azizel Shire is one of them. I just think that that's a more fluid athletic linebacker who can play Tampa for you and carry guys down the field more than anybody the Rams have. And I think, I think the secondary duo on the outside for the, really the whole secondary

1:39:50nickel. The secondary as a whole is ridiculous. I mean, the Rams made big upgrades at corner. It's not like I think they're weak there or anything. But I mean, blanking ship is a nice ad, Bullock, and then P3 last that are stingly as an incredible, incredible corner room. I mean, they're stacked in the secondary. We've been hyping up the Eagles for it a lot. But I mean, I think I would probably take the Texan secondary overall over. Over. Yes. Just because of the, I think the safety play. The safety is the safety play is better. I think that's fair. I do just think the addition of miles, Garrett is so on. I mean, I did it. Like they were, they were not that far apart. I feel like defensively last year. Like Houston was the better defense last year. Analytically, analytically, but like in reality, I think, I sure, I mean, yes, you would,

1:40:51you would easily have picked the Texans defense. Like if I asked you, you can have any defense in the NFL to build your team around. Like you would pick Texans, no question. Latcher, I would have picked the Seahawks. Like, go on, I'm saying, I'm taking between Houston, and LA, but like, I think in large part, that is because the way the, the Rams had to get pressure was by like everyone does their job, right? Everyone's got their role to fill. And that's cool, but they don't have a will Anderson. They don't have a Daniel Hunter. Now they have miles, Garrett, who really truly gets triple teamed at the highest rate in the NFL, not even double team and chip to the highest rate. He had triple team to the highest rate in football. Like, there is, there is a world where miles, Garrett not only has a more impressive season or a season near is statistically impressive as it was last year because the Rams offensive line is better

1:41:55than the Browns was, but then also like everyone else on that defensive line has the most impressive season they've ever had in their career. And they like break the single season sack record for a team. I mean, I'm not going to say that you're crazy for having the Rams at one. I think the path that is pretty obvious. And it definitely makes me a little nervous to bet against them. Although, I mean, I have the winning the Super Bowl and number two. Yeah, you're not. But it's not one. Oh, we've got it. But um, like, okay, comparing them to last year's defense, it's not the same thing, maybe with the corners, but like now that you have miles, Garrett and Aaron Donnell is back. They're a whole new group. The defensive line is ridiculously stacked. Miles Garrett is the best player in the NFL. And Aaron Donnell, it's really hard for me to, to guess at how good he's going to be on the one hand. It's been a while. And he's coming back. But on the other hand,

1:42:56when Donald does the whole like, I'm not coming back unless I'm on me. And then he comes back. Do you not believe him? You have to. And I kind of believe them. And it really is like not unreasonable to imagine that a player like Donald could be good at this age. It's not like he's coming back. And he's 38 where you're like, this would be pretty crazy. Yeah, if Donald hadn't, yeah, if Donald hadn't retired, you would say this guy's probably still going to be pretty good at this age. And there's guys in the league doing it right now. So I really feel like there's a chance that he's close to the air and Donald of old. And if that is the case, then we're going to see exactly how productive a defensive line can possibly be. I mean, Theo, you asked a question who is on the all time Mount Rushmore for the NFL and is Aaron Donald up there. And I think the answer is actually like, yes, he is. He has the most first team all pros of any defensive

1:44:00player in NFL history. And he's got the most defensive players a year. He's tied for that as well. I think there's a pretty easy argument to make. If you want to say somebody else and you want to go older like fine, but this is one of the all time great players unquestionably. And to be real with you, I was thinking about this when you said it and I've been thinking about it today too, like, what would Miles Garrett have to do to have a goat case like just straight up? And it seems like he's within striking this since if he had his career strong. So on top of that, again, you've got other talented pass rushers like here with like, you know, Kobe Turner and all them. So between that and the corner play being upgraded the way that it has. Yeah, I can't blame you for putting them at one, but I also think the Texans have a great defensive line as well. They have a great pair of pass rushers. And I really like the McDonald ad. I think he's going to be able to make an impact right away. He's just so physical and strong at the catch point. He's got a lot of velocity when he moves. So I'm excited to see how he can be used. And I think I think

1:45:06Houston kind of being really settled in maybe all help them like that. That is the argument above everything else is they are so established already as this elite defensive unit over multiple years. So I do get it. I do. I will say I tweeted out that I think Aaron Donald coming out of retirement adds to Miles Garrett's goat case and people disagreed with me on that. It adds to his mythology, which is kind of different. Like if we're sitting down and debating the facts, some other player deciding like, yeah, I'm going to come out of retirement. Like that doesn't make Miles a better or worse player. I guess I can see what you're saying. I'm is I got Donald has a goat case, but that doesn't yeah, Donald's goat case more to say. But like Donald saying that he like he was done like that there would have to be a ridiculously convincing reason for him to come back. And then Miles Garrett joining is that ridiculously convincing reason.

1:46:10I don't know. There's a lot of mythology that can go down with this Rams team. That's for sure. And Donald, I mean, he had the highest defensive tackle win right in the league when he retired. He had over 60 pressures. He was incredibly productive. He was still being double teams constantly. Although it's almost not worth doing because he splits them like he's made out of water so easily. And with these great ones, man, it's just hard to know. Michael Jordan took a year off. Came back one two more MVPs in his 30s. Then he took two years off. Came back with the wizards. Was an all star twice, scoring 20 points a game. Like if this is wizards, Michael Jordan, Aaron Donald, that's still pretty damn good. Like that's still not someone you want to see flying around looping after Miles Garrett crashes on the stunt. Like it's it's scary. It's scary. Not to mention Kobe Turner, not to mention Braden Fisk. Those guys got to be feeling like missing some attention, like an unloved child. Like mom used to play with me. We used to wrestle.

1:47:18Now no one wants to do anything with me anymore. They're going to start missing offensive slide help. I don't I don't want to speak for Braden Fisk, but he's probably like this is sweet. He probably not like this is he thinks it's sweet now become week 10 and he's like I had just been blowing up running backs and tight ends. I got too many tackles. I got too many cubi hits. My PFF grade is too high. My EPA like no, bro. He's Turner and Fisk don't have rings. I'm sure that they're psyched to be playing exactly. Oh, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's going to just be like, man, who cares about us? Braden Fisk and no one cares about me. I didn't have sex. I promise they'll care about him when his contract comes around and he can get a pretty big bag because he had a really productive year with Garrett and see, but the difference the difference between

1:48:21like even Donald and and wizards Michael Jordan, if you want to look at it that way is like, Michael Jordan was of the age where there really wasn't a lot of precedent for somebody to be like great at that point. 35 defensive tech. Yeah. Like he was he was really old. He was he was 38 or 39. Yeah, both 38 and 39. Yeah. Whereas with Aaron Donald, I mean, past rushers can age really well and it happens kind of commonly for the grades. It's it's it's Reggie White wanted a defensive player of the year when he was 37. I mean, or this isn't this isn't like one of the like grades, but like Cam Hayward has had a really good late career. It's not like he's coming back. He's not like a receiver coming back at 35 where you're like, it's possible, but man, you know, right. There's there's precedent for him to be a first team all pro at this age and it really wouldn't shock you. And the question is that I'm asking myself now,

1:49:24if you really believe that Aaron Donald is a Mount Rushmore player and you really believe that Miles Garrett has a path to having a straight up goat case and they're really on the same team. Are you really not going to have him as the best defense? That's what I kind of think it only because I'm thinking I'm thinking while the Texans are and I'm trying I'm imagining myself like it's like I'll show you're getting to marry the sea. This is okay. Imagine imagine this in 20 years. You have to explain to like your kids. Well, you see the Texans where we're so complete and al-Shayir and and and and they're going to al-Shayir is read like and shit. Ball knowledge. He was he was salt. He was physical. I swear. And they're going to be like, Dad, you had no ball knowledge at all. Dad, you come. Ari Lasseter. Now that's a name that doesn't come up enough. Yeah, you used to come down. I'm Ari Lasseter. Hey, respect Jalen P3. I'm going. I'm going

1:50:26I'm going Rams at one and who cares sick. And this is why I picked them in the 32 fantasy because they're just so scary. I mean, yeah, the Rams have a potential to be like, oh, it's week six or it's week 10. And four of the four of the 10 quarterbacks they've played are out for the year. Some stat like that coming out. That would be a morbid stat. Yeah, but I can't carry the sea. I can't. No, that's that's real true. No reason to carry the sea in if your quarterbacks on the ground. Yeah, I just think you got I got to go Rams. Because I mean, because you don't want to be watching the Rams tape. You don't want to be watching the all 20 to be like, ah, Donald is like Aaron Donald and I kind of well, I had the I just had them at two. That's not about it. It's not. I thought about it. I thought about it forever.

1:51:28Like it's not going to. You're going to listen to that. Look, I've thought about it and I've thought that Petri and Petri is the overhang and Shire said, Karen, the seam, clears. Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald looping and something. Yeah, dude. We don't. We don't care about that. We care about Miles Garrett off the ball. We care about the damn foot sevens, exceeding to the middle and protecting that dig window. And I don't see the that's one thing the Rams have in the dress is is the Ted McMillan in breakers that gave them so much trouble. Both times they played the Panthers. So what are they going to do again? What are they going to do about Ted? What's their answer about? Just answer what their answer is. I hear all these things about how their past rushes so good. What is their answer for Ted McMillan because the path is as good as he is as the size mismatch. The path to a Panthers Brown Super Bowl is looking

1:52:30very clear. It really is all this to stop Bryce Young. He gave him quite the scare. Yes, he had him shook. The thing is is like we can frame it like that. But like it's I think it's probably going to work. I think it's probably going to stay there's offense and a potential matchup. Are they on our schedule this year? Rams. Rams Panthers should be like manning Brady. Like that's just a lot of young. I am not seeing Rams Panthers. That's too bad. We did have them shook. Absolutely. We did. Well, you'll see them in the playoffs. Don't worry. We'll see them in the play. Yeah, we'll see them in the playoffs. Sioux, if they hit Panthers, win the South. It's not that hard to imagine. It will seem in the playoffs. We'll see out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'll be it'll be in Carolina. Oh, yeah, it'll be for all to marbles. Okay, perfect. What is the hair and Donald's answer for it being in Carolina? Okay. What's the answer for the Damien Lewis bless? We're not sure. It's been a long time. We don't know. Yeah.

1:53:36Can they handle Tommy Trumble? I. I'm saying like I'm telling you you don't want to explain to your son that you thought the Damien Lewis blessed would have added very novel. You can't. And Robert Hunt, let me let me tell you something. You don't understand how solid Carolina's guard play was. But I think they'd run duo and Chubo would be able to hit it up the A gap. He wouldn't even have to go to the front side. It would just hit the A gap. Explaining the DVOA numbers too. Oh, their DVOA on runs between the guards who are so good, bro. Braves had no answer for this. They were stunton. We just catch the stunt carrier. I feel that's going to happen. Pulling up the the sports info solutions charts and just showing them. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that

1:54:40will do it for another episode of Stay Hot. Should we run through our each of our list one final time for the peeps going 10 going 10 to one. I have Colts Steelers Vikings Ravens Broncos Patriot Eagles Seahawks Texans Rams Matt. I have Steelers Pets Jaguars Vikings Ravens Broncos Eagles Seahawks Texans Rams. You almost said pack and your voice slipped a little bit. I heard it. No. You're in my head. I have Saints at 10 Vikings at 9 Steelers at 8 Packers at 7 Broncos at 6 Ravens at 5 Seahawks at 4 Eagles at 3 Rams at 2 Texans at 1. I don't do it. Thank you all so much for tuning in. We got one more we did dooming about every team in the NFL. Next episode is Hope Corps for every team in the NFL. It'll be a lot of fun. Make sure you tune in and until then and until next time we'll catch you on the Flippity Flop.