NLP Communication Tools For Parenting - Josh Davis,PhD

0:00Hey guys, I want to take a second to thank ComfortPro. Since 2001 ComfortPro has been helping customers stay comfortable where they live, work and play. They stand behind their work with 100% customer satisfaction guarantee. They have 24-7 emergency service, and if you mention the show, you receive a free watchdog maintenance plan for one year. Call ComfortPro at 484-917-1803. 484-917-1803. That's ComfortPro. This is going to be a good one, Hugo. The Brad Reisman show, real people, real life, and everything in between. So what do your kids think of this? I'm so embarrassed. I'm not here for the money, but also taking off. Unfiltered conversations with the people shaping our world. Because you're judging yourself by your intentions, their judging you by your actions. You know my wife said to me, you go to work and you give everyone the Mitchell Buffet and you come home and you give me the straps. And now your host, Brad Reisman. All right, Hugo. Hi. How you doing? I'm good. I'm

1:07working. Bring that microphone down a little bit there. It's a little, is that for a taller person? It was a little higher. Good thing they're adjustable, right? That's right. But how you doing? Good, good. How are you? I don't know. Great. Love your new shirt. Got the new new castle shirt on there. Very, very spiffy. We'll have to let them know that you like it. It looks nice. Looks good. It looks good. So yeah, we got a really good guest coming on here. Like you usually. We have. We have, well, I'm going to tell you what his name is. And then we'll tell you a little bit about him. His name is Josh Davis. He's a dad of three. So he's got something common though. I have some, has some children. A two-time best-selling author. And he's got a PhD in psychology and neuroscience, which we're going to get into. But don't worry. We're not going to nerd out. It's going to be about families. It's going to be about being dads. And how we can be a better dad. And he wrote a book called The Difference that makes the difference. And that breaks down science, back methods for upgrading your mindset, communication, and relationships. And tools, he's adapted specifically to help dads and families thrive. So let's bring him on. All right. Josh, how you doing, man? Your microphone sounds great, by the way. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah. But no,

2:10welcome to the show. We've been, you and I have been going back and forth on a lot of different, the email emails back and forth with information. We finally made this happen. I'm so glad we did. I mean, the book that you have out, I did not get a chance to read, but I've been reading all about it. So all that you've been on some shows. I see a lot of stuff on Instagram, but I just want to say welcome to the show. And where are you at, actually? I think I'm in California. Yeah, I'm in California. That's why I thought, okay, I'm heading there on Monday. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. I'm flying into San Francisco and then headed out to Napa Valley. So drink some wine and hang out with my wife for our 15 year anniversary. That'd be nice. Yeah, look at your nose. Look at forward to it. No podcasting when I'm out there. No podcast. It's all going to be just going. I are going to sneak in a few, a few episodes. Yeah, it's exactly. There you go. So yeah, let's get into this. I just thought it was interesting. What I liked is that when I saw the neuroscience and I saw psychology and, you know, we see that a lot in our guests. And, and this was different because then I started digging into your website. And there's, you know, you're talking about

3:10NLP for dad and the Noral and Wester programming for dads. You get into a lot about families and things like that in using NLP for when you're when you're talking to your spouse or your kids or or whatever. And I thought that was cool. And then you have a course and it's called amazing dad. It's an eight week course that I saw on your website. So let's get into first, you know, what is your background? How did you get into this? And then how did you ease into from the the scientific stuff into, you know, relationships and families and being a dad. Let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'll take it in that order. First, you know, how I got into this stuff. So I think some of the people listening might know about NLP and our linguistic programming. So might not I'll share a little bit of what it is. And as you said, so I also I did a, you know, a doctorate where I, you know, research and psychology and neuroscience. I was at Columbia University. I was a professor there for a while as well. And I uniquely, I think in a position,

4:16like I don't think there's other people in this position to really know the research enough to be able to say, well, what is relevant? What, you know, how, how does the research apply to NLP? And then to also really know NLP. And so, so that is partly just because of my history, how would I grow up with? So if you go back, well, first of all, let me just say big picture. NLP is about how you can make changes quickly and in a lasting way. So how do you change yourself quickly in a last doing? How do you help other people change quickly and in a lasting way? And there really is a lot that many people don't know that can help you change how you communicate, especially, but also how what you do in your communication can enable you to, you know, how you communicate with yourself or with others, help them just get past the things that get in the way. So here's what NLP is, which is connected to how I got into it. So if you go back, this just is just a couple of minutes of history on it. If you go back 50 years, and this helps explain why

5:20it's so different for most people and so useful. If you go back 50 years here in the 1970s, there's all these new forms of psychotherapy that have been coming out. They started coming out maybe in the 60s, but you've got cognitive therapy, gestalt therapy, family therapy, hypnotherapy, hypnotherapy, and so on. All these new outcome oriented therapies that are very different from what had come before. And they're getting results much faster. And they tend to be results that last as well. So you might have someone who's got some kind of anxiety issue, and they're just, you know, talking on the couch for years, and it might or might not change. And then all of a sudden, you have some of these pioneer is creating these new forms of therapy. They're working with people, someone might have a phobia, and then after a couple of sessions, they just simply don't name more. Right. I mean, it's really, now that's that's one of the more dramatic things. It's not always that quick, right? But psychotherapists, they're doing change work all day long, helping people change behavior, attitudes, how they engage with others, any topic, they're working on it. And now these

6:20people who were developing those fields 50 years later, their giants in the field, they're in the text books, their names are well known, their research just support it all. But at the time, if you back in the 70s, and I know this because my parents had a family therapy institute. Well, hands up. They, right? So my mom, especially, wanted to learn about what this guy, Dr. Milton Erickson, who was the creator of hypnotherapy, you know, the primary person behind it, what he was doing, like how did he work his magic? And it really did seem like magic to many people. And all you could do is fly out to Arizona and sit and watch him work. And that was nothing she could do with two little kids. So along comes this, and there were many people just trying to observe and copy and figure it out. And it's kind of wonky. And then this linguistics professor. And a partner of his, they, they took the tools of linguistics, which are really good at looking at people's language patterns and identifying the signal from the noise. So what are the patterns

7:27that are repeatable that we could all use that would help somebody, you know, explore a new idea? What are the patterns we pick up in someone else's language that indicate that there is a limiting belief, for example? And so they're looking closely at what the psychotherapists are doing with language and nonverbal communication and codifying it, like putting it into patterns and then testing it out. And they did a wonderful job. They called it neuro-linguistic programming and LP. And the name you don't need to know the name. I don't think it's a great name. Well, the name's tough to say. I gotta say. I mean, every time I gotta say it's hard. And then you have to explain it, ever. Yeah, it's exactly. So it just, we'll call it NLP, not worry about what it stands for. But it is a collection of tools from psychotherapy that are particularly useful in the way they've been modeled and the way they've been mapped out so that anyone can take them and use them. And now the thing is it's complex stuff. Those you can imagine because it's psychotherapy and you're not asking everyone to be a psychotherapist.

8:29So I and my co-author spent a couple, so after teaching this stuff for many years and so really getting to know it well, then I partnered up with with Greg, my co-author. We spent a couple of years really working out how do you teach this stuff really simply and making it very easy to apply for someone with no background. Yeah. And so that's what the book is all about. Yeah, you're bringing it to the masses. You're bringing it to the masses. So we don't all have a doctorate. We didn't all go to school for all this stuff. So I think in order for it to help the most people, you have to make it understandable to the most people, right? I mean, that's the whole idea of it. Is the more people understand, the more people helps. And I think it's great. But it's not everybody's going to go take a 120-hour course to become a practitioner in NLP. No, definitely not. But you can read a book. Well, let's you do that stuff, okay? Which I love doing. I have this amazing stuff. Once you get into it, you might want to, but that's different. Give me a simple practical use of something that you could say.

9:32This is how it was used as an example and how it helps people. Okay. And so here's a dad example because you know, perfect. Dad examples are perfect. I'm talking about that. We're all dads. Yes. And, and dad, by the way, have nothing to go on. It's like my wife just got like 4,000 WhatsApp groups of moms, right? They know exactly who's doing one. And how did you talk about this? Right. It's just like, and you know, I'm finding out a month later than there was like a field trip. You know, it's like so. So there's your, you know, it's funny. You say that and I say this all the time. I'm just saying this on my own. This is about me, not about other dads. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to what's going over the kids. I just am. Because moms just seem to do, they plan, they plan a lot of things. They make sure stuff happens. They keep things in their head that I can't keep in my head. Like I tell my wife, I just got to be on my schedule. It's not on my schedule. I'm not going to show up. I just don't have that power that they have. It's incredible. So yeah, it's, it is funny.

10:33And you're funny with them. What's that? Like I have one thing, Mitchell Osmond, that's about it. The guy that's the podcast guy, the dad nation, he's the only guy that I know of that, that can help me with dad stuff, you know, it's funny. So go ahead. Now you'll be the second guy that can help me with this stuff. All of us. Yeah. So, you know, we got nothing. We're on our own. We're just walking around. We're the equivalent of like tools haven't been invented yet. We're picking up a rock to try to like smash two things together. Yeah. I guess that's what most dads are doing, right? Yep. And then I know NLP, right? I studied this stuff and, you know, I taught it and, and it's like it's, it's, it's fun to use with your kids because, you know, basically got all these tools. And so I'm just feeling like, well, dads need to know this. You know, my brother, he's a dad too. And I tell him about some things and my friend, you know, it's just like, well, wait a second. Hold on. First of all, dads have nothing. Most dads, right? As you pointed out of this couple of things. But, you know, so most dads are just completely on their own. And then there's this amazing set of tools that we can all actually use.

11:37And so here's one thing that this didn't, this wasn't even that long ago. You know, the kids, I was inside. My wife was still at the office. I'm trying to make dinner and they're all, all three of them are out back. And then they're playing right. And five minutes later, there's less like screaming. There's some crying and everything in this too. So I can, I'm immediately, I'm getting annoyed. And I'm thinking like, you're not letting me do this. And you're like, right. And I go outside and then I want to just, you know, get mad at the one who started it and all that. Right. I'm starting from that point. But I know about this tool, which is called pacing and leading. That before you have to earn the right to influence. You go at somebody's pace. You meet them where they are. You acknowledge their reality. And then they open up to listen, right? And so I just like, I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to do this even though I'm mad right now. And in the moment, there's not something I had to plan ahead for. I just need to know about the tool and have a little practice with it. Right. And so I go outside and I don't let myself say the first thing that comes to my mind and pause for a sec.

12:40I'm like, all right, where are they? What's going on in their minds right now? How can I join them where they are before I try to do anything? And I'm like, okay, I see what's happening. I got it. And I said to them, to all three of them at the same time, I said, nobody wants to be the bad guy here, right? Because they're trying to say she did it. He's doing this and he was mean and blah, blah. Right. Yeah. I'm like, nobody wants to be the bad guy here. And I really, I hit it. I landed on it. Turned out to be the exact one going on. And then and I said, and everyone wants to keep playing. And there was kind of quiet. That's funny. I walked away. And they went back to playing. Right. Interesting. Wow. So you met them where they were? Yeah. That was all I had to do. I didn't even have to lead them somewhere else. And that happens a lot. You just meet someone where they are. And they figured out as long as you're meeting them where there's a little bit of an art to it. Like I spoke to the positive intention behind it.

13:42That's something that comes from NLP also, that every behavior has a positive intention. And when you can speak to that, then you set the person on finding a solution that really works for them. And also if I just said you're all mad right now, I would be meeting them where they are, but then I'd have to do some more work. Right. Right. And it can't be self-serving either, right? Is that can it come up for? I guess it is kind of self-serving. And that you're trying to figure out the problem so that you go back and cook. But you know what I mean? So it's an interesting, it's an interesting way to look at it. For me, the hardest part is exactly what you said when you won't, you go out there and you're in that moment. You want to freak out. I mean, I'm sick, right? Don't we want to freak out? I want to freak out. I want to say, okay, this is ridiculous. I'm trying to make dinner. Yes. You know, I could. And like, and then what's going to happen? It's going to be chaos. So I'm going to get mad. My blood pressure goes up. So it's not doing anything good for me. They're going to be mad at me. Dad's a jerk. Why can't dad do what mom does?

14:44It's that whole thing. So it's interesting. When you took what two seconds, five seconds to think about where they were and how you can meet them there in that moment. I think I had to take a couple of breaths too. It probably might have been even 30 seconds. Okay. Okay. Good. Because then I was going to say because you're really good at this. Because it would take me at least 30 seconds to be like, I'm not that I'm going to flip out. It's just, you know how it is. You're in that moment. You're just like, wait, what's going on here? In a positive way, what's going on here? What do they want in a positive way? What are they trying to do? Like, what's a way in my mind? I can look at them not as monstrous. You know, right? Yes. I get it. Kids, what's the thing? And then like, you know, just like that. And then let me label that. You know, and I met them energetically too. They're all mad and shouting. And I wasn't like, okay, everybody calm down. Right. Because like, what do you do when you're mad? And you're just, and then they're like calm down. Right. You're just like, you need to get louder.

15:44Because they obviously don't get it. Yes. That's an interesting, I like that example. I like the example. With a lot of energy, I looked like I was mad when I said it. Right. You know, it's like, nobody wants to be the bad guy. And you just surprised the hell out of them by what you said. I think so too. It probably broke the state just like. Yeah, because they're, they're, they're looking at a pattern. They're going, oh, dad's, here we go. This is, we ticked off dad. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. And all of a sudden, the words that come out of your mouth, do not match what they're expecting. So the whole thing is just like, it's, it's cool. Very cool. Yeah, it's really cool. I love it. That's a good example. And it helps because like I said, we hear all this NLP stuff. And it's a, we've been hearing this a lot with different guests, NLP, NLP. But it's, it's a lot of times we just don't know how is it used in a practical sense. How can I use it in every day? Is this something that, because I think a lot of people think, oh, this is above this. I can't do that. That's above me. I don't understand how to do those kind of things. So it's just very good.

16:45It's a good problem that Greg noticed also. He's just like, hey, this is amazing stuff. But not everybody's going to be like me and take a class. And that's why he said, he said, I like the way you teach. Do you want to, do you want to teach, like, let's teach a class where we make this stuff accessible for lawyers? He's a lawyer. Oh, okay. And that was the whole idea. That's how we started talking. And then we wrote a book for everyone. And then with him, we're doing class for lawyers. But then on my own, I'm doing classes for dads. That's awesome. Well, really, it's all relationships. It's all, I mean, it could be spouses, dads, could be your work-wise, say, work-wife, work-husband, work-family, leadership that you're dealing with. I know you work with him, coach, business leaders, and things like that. This stuff is used across everything in your life. I mean, it's across everything. Yeah. If you need to communicate. Which most of us do. Most of us do. So let's, let's, and I know it's, when you say something that generic, it applies to everyone. It is a little bit of like, oh, how do I know it's for me and it would work for me?

17:49But, you know, these, this is from psychotherapists who are doing change work all day every day with every kind of person, right? What's the stuff that really you can take out of that, that anyone could use to make a change, you know, to make themselves change or to help somebody else change, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Very cool. So let's go into the book. So the book you wrote is called The Difference That Makes the Difference. You know, so is the whole book about that? I mean, do you want to give us an overview of the book and why it was written? I think you told a little bit of, did you ever, that you wrote it with another writer? Was that the attorney we were talking about? Yeah. Yeah, Greg. Greg, probably. So how did this all come together? I mean, obviously, this became, it's huge. When you write a book, there's obviously you have a, you have a lot of passion for this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I fell in love with NLP 26 years ago when I first started studying it myself, even though I knew about it as a kid, because my parents, you know, used it in their, in their therapy practice. And they actually taught it for a while, but they had stopped teaching by the time I was in my 20s, and I wanted to study.

18:50So, so I fell in love with it. I was just like, I felt like, Neo in the Matrix, like I was looking at the code, you know? It's like, oh my god. Like these, I don't have to continue walking around, you know, feeling like, oh, I could never start my own business, or I could, you know, never, you know, be in a happy relationship, right? Like these words, I was like, wait a second. I know how to make those changes now, you know? And if there's someone else who knows how to do something, I know how to learn, like I might meet somebody who's great at making decisions quickly. I know how to learn how they do it. And draw from that. And it's like, it's fun. Yeah, that's right. So I fell in love with this stuff. And then, you know, here we are years down the line, I also fell in love with teaching. And I would say those professionally are the two things I love the most. Content-wise, NLP, and process-wise teaching. I started teaching in a last-chance public high school in Brooklyn.

19:55And wow, there's a child. Just, you've got kids who are like, they've been to jail, or they've had their own kids, so they had to drop out of high school and then come back. Or, you know, who knows what the reason is, right? Yeah. And so this is their last chance at high school. And, you know, none of the kids came from a similar background as me. They're all from, you know, the inner city, from, you know, and poverty and, you know, and so forth. And I remember early on, there's this little woman who was, you know, under five feet tall, and she was gray hair and wrinkled and everything. And she said it in a teacher's meeting, this is, I'd only been there a month. And she's like, you know, she's kind of getting upset with some other teacher like, hey, when a fight starts, you need to step in there and break it up. And I'm thinking, are you out of your mind? Right. I'm in love with the door. And I'm in love with it. Yes. That would be me. Right. Well, that, that was me too. And three months later, I was stepping into the fight.

20:57Wow. I was just stepping in. And like, because I, the whole relationship, like with the, the students and understanding how they think and who they were, it's like there was a relationship now. They didn't want, it was like an out for them because they didn't want me to get hurt because I was now somebody in their life. Right. And this was a safe way for them to be able to step away from the fight. Yeah. Now, understanding that mental model, like that was just mind blowing for me. Yeah. Right. And I just, I just like found myself in the middle of it before I even understood it. And then there'd be other things where, you know, high school kids will give you immediate feedback on everything if they think it, it comes out of their mouth. Yeah. So at least you're the teacher. And so, so, you know, I mean, it was this incredible learning opportunity for, you know, what happens when I smile in a certain way. And I'm delivering bad news like you're in trouble.

21:58Right. Or what happened, you know, that, you know, and turns out you look like a real A-hole when you do that. You know, right. But like, but we often don't get to get that feedback. And so I'm getting all this exquisite feedback, learning how do you get someone in a position where they're really excited to learn and opening up and talking to you, learning what shuts down learning by accident. That was a real frustrating point. But so it's just like this amazing, this amazing, like set of things to do is like understanding people, the improv of it, the dynamics of different mental models from my own, realizing all these beliefs I had that only apply to me. They don't actually apply to other people. You know, there's, anyway, so these two things happen at the same time. And I just like, so my whole professional life since that time has been about finding ways to teach because it's so interesting to me to figure out how do you take an idea and get it to a point where someone's using it. Because you're because because the student is always different. Yes.

23:00You know, the student, that's the thing about teaching. I think it's interesting. And about being in a place where it's the last chance. I mean, teaching those kids is got to be a different approach than teaching a kid that really that comes in right away off day one wants to learn. So I've taught at at Barnard College at Columbia University. I've taught at NYU. I've taught at, you know, an F taught at this last chance high school. I've taught adult education. Sometimes I've even gotten a chance to do some things with preschoolers. So I experienced a lot of different kids. There are a lot of different learners. And each time there are some adjustments. But one of the things that I learned that is really universal is that everybody wants to learn. Everybody is born loving learning. Like just like when you get the chance to discover something new. And there's a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like I'm anxious about my grade. Or I just learn that I look stupid.

24:01Or, you know, if I do actually are a speaker person. Right. There's a lot of things that get in the way of that. Or it's not clear to me yet how I'm going to use this. Right. We do a lot of things that get in our way. Yep. And so my job is actually to show you the potential. Let you play with it and step out of the way. And that's true for everyone. So curiosity is born. We're born with the curiosity. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and you know, I had these, you know, these kids that like they were loving, they, you know, they had failed. I mean, they're in high school already. And some of them are, you know, basically at, you know, fifth grade level math. And then here they are loving math. Right. So it's, it's not about that they couldn't do it or that they wasn't of interest, but they, there were all these other things that led them to give up on it or think that anyway. So that was a universal, but there's certainly some differences in terms of learning to speak to someone where they're, where they're at. So they felt like I understood them. That was the biggest

25:01difference. Like talking to it. We're talking about dad stuff. And we're like, yeah, yeah, okay, I get it right. But that wouldn't, you know, it's like when I was talking with the kids, they don't, yeah, it's not. Yeah. And so yeah, so it's the content. And then it's also like how you show up nonverbaly. So really match people. And there's always a little bit of learning with that. That's those the differences. Oh, but you, you would ask about, yes, so teach, so then Greg comes along, he's like, I like the way you teach. And then which I take pride in, I've spent my professional life figuring out how do you teach things in simple, useful ways? Like that's like, because I love doing that. And, and he said, you know, let's do this class. And then he said, you know, let's write a book first. And he talked me into it. Oh, it's awesome. So, you know, but yeah, like I, writing the book was, was amazing. Like I just said, it was a chance to like figure out how do you teach it when you have to imagine everything. Because the other person's not there in the room. Yeah, right. You really got to imagine how might they take it and how could they use it? How

26:02do I set them up with a set of just reflection questions so that they get the experience, no matter where they're starting from? Right. And I think, and I think we've succeeded. It's a USA today best seller. That's awesome. That's awesome. I'd agree to be back. That's all succeeded. So let's go into the, but then how did you get into, you have this amazing dad eight week course on your website. Tell us a little bit about that and how that, does that come, did that come as an offshoot from the book? Was it, is it in the book? Is that, you know, where, how did you come up with the amazing dad thing? Well, in the book, because I'm a dad, there's plenty of examples of from my own personal life, but the book is not a book just written for dads, but the course takes, it follows the book, right? You can't cover everything in eight weeks, you know, but, you know, specific tools from the book about there's there's 27 tools total. And we take about 10 of them in those eight weeks where we can, you know, each time here's a tool, let's, here's the context where it's relevant. Let's say, you know, one of the focuses is, I, you know, the things that trigger me where I just,

27:06I know, I could just not get triggered. I'd be fine. I know what to do, but I don't do it because I get triggered. Right. How do I have a different reaction to that trigger? And turns out there's a lot of great things you can do to have a different reaction to a trigger. I can share one of them here on the, yeah, I know, and do it over, absolutely. But so is that kind of thing like where we go through and specific tools for that or how do I get my kids to open up and listen or how do I set boundaries without having them just shut down? Those would be like the topics, then here's a tool, we workshop it, and we kind of learn from each other too. But so, yeah, so here's one thing you can do in terms of getting triggered. Now, actually, I invite you right now, Brad, to think about something that triggers you that one of your kids does. Hey guys, if you're looking to buy or sell a house in Birx County or beyond, let me know. This is Brad Weisman from the Brad Weisman show. You probably know I'm also

28:06a realtor, but I wanted to remind you, if you have any questions or you need anything, please give me a call, 4842565836. Thanks. Not telling the truth. I don't you, okay. Right. About simple things, about stupid things, actually. One's that you see, you see them do it, and then they say, I didn't do that. And those are the ones that really trigger me. Yeah. Right. That's right. And it's annoying, and they shouldn't do that. Very annoying. Not to do that. Right. Also, integrity is everything. So, yeah. Exactly. Integrity is everything. And so if you were to allow it, then you know, what you might end up with these kids that don't have integrity. Sure. Right. I mean, that's unconsciously your mind goes there. Yep. And so therefore, I have to stop this. I have to shut it down. These I'm not going to be embarrassed by having a kid who does that. That's a common thing. Right. So that's all happening running in the

29:06background on that's your unconscious program. This running. Right. And therefore, I have to shut it down. Right. And so if that's the context, if I wanted to get triggered like you, that's all I have to do. I just have to think integrity is everything. And I'm not going to be embarrassed to have a kid who does that. Right. Right. And maybe I start having that feeling, well,ing up to. Right. And right. So it just put those together. Anyone get triggered. Yep. Right. So part of what we do is we unpack. How you actually get triggered now because that already, I'm sure give some solutions. You know, I'm doing a little guessing because we're just here. Sure. No, it's just good. No, it's just good. That's yeah. It probably gives you some ideas already. What could I do differently? Well, I don't have to think that my kids going to end up with no integrity. If I don't shut this down, you know, I, you know, my kids, of course, my kids not going to end up that way. That kid. You know, right. And so there's a few things already just by unpacking that. And I guess I think just right now, when you said I think, okay, why? Like my thing is like, you know, don't just like have like a real heart to it. Like why, why would you do that? Like you know, you know, I saw you.

30:11Right. Why would you say opposite of what you know, I saw? You know, you know, it's right. That's the part. Yeah. They know it. Right. So I just trying to, yeah, I'm trying to think and that's what I'm saying. And that in that, then after it's I'm like, okay, if you know, I saw you, why would you say something? That's the part that I think I start to unpack after the fact of like, why are you doing like so that the kind of the freak out? So yeah, right. The freak out of why are you doing this? I was like, why would you do this? Both of which don't, don't really mean in any kind of a curious way. No, no, doesn't. Right. They're both judgy and different. Yes, absolutely. And you go there. That's part of of an NLT, what we would call this skill. We've actually described that as a skill of getting triggered in that moment. Okay. But you can learn how to get triggered and you can also learn how to knock a trigger. So here's just one thing that you can do in that moment, even. You don't even need to plan ahead for this one. Okay. When they do in the moment, even if you're already getting triggered, that can be very helpful. Nothing is going to work 100% of the time for everyone in every context. But it works a lot of the time for most contexts. Right. And it'll work sometimes

31:17for everyone. So there'll be some context where it does work for you, even if it's not this one. But we call it just the facts. There's a chapter on this called just the facts. And it's about we're going to separate facts from interpretation. And so the facts in this case are your kid was in front of you when you did this thing. And then you said to them that they did it. And they said I didn't do it. And maybe they looked away. These are the only facts. Right. Now there's a whole lot of interpretation going on. Like this is a sign that they don't have integrity. Right. That's an interpretation. Absolutely. It's that's a great. Right. I agree with that. Yeah. Then there's another fact of they might not have integrity down the road. Right. That's then you're interpreting what this will mean down the road. That's a future interpretation. The future interpretation. Exactly. Right. So we separate the facts from the interpretation.

32:18Sometimes a little bit of the way they look at you. Let me know if this is true or not for you. But there's a little bit of a look where they might be. You might be thinking, oh, you think you're you you can pull one over on me or you think you're smart. You know, you're right. Are you think that I'm an idiot or you think I'm a jerk or you think I'm just some disciplinarian. Whatever that thought it that is also an interpretation. And another part is and it's something is now, oh, so you think I'm lying that I saw that. How could they accuse you? Right. See? There's that's the other step. Yeah. It's the other step. You think I'm lying. Right. I'm lying because I said it. So I'm not lying. I saw it. Yeah. But that's mind reading. Yeah. You can't read someone's mind. You can't know that they're thinking that. So that's an interpretation too. So if we just separate the facts and the interpretation, we just say, what are the facts here? And just by doing that, you're already much less likely to get triggered. But there's another step. You can just ask yourself, well, how else could these facts be interpreted? And I'm curious,

33:21how else could those facts be interpreted? How else could they be interpreted? I don't know. Trying to think out. I wouldn't interpret those. Right. Well, protection maybe like they're trying to protect something else, something protection making. Well, I think actually the other thing is that the child could be trying to save themselves from embarrassment. Okay. Right. He might now want to feel embarrassed. He wouldn't that's what he mean. But he might not want you to be mad at him. Yep. Might want to continue to be having fun with you. Yep. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of other reasons. It's a good therapy session. You know, I am I supposed to be laying on a couch while we're doing this or what? The tables have turned here. I don't know if I like this. No, but you're right. And it's funny how we, you know, we attach, I love the fact, the thing that I really like that you said that out of this whole, that's a little example here

34:25is, is there's the fact is that I attach all these things to it that are not fact. I love the fact that they're interpretation. They're my opinion of what just happened. They're not really bad. You're right. I know. Exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Exactly. Right. Yeah. It's really interesting. You're interpretation. They're my feelings. And I can't, I can't, I can't change them always. But what do you do? So what do I do the next time it happens? Next time this happens, next time your kid lies to you right in front of you after you've just seen them doing something. You whip pause and you say yourself. Did you see what you hear? You go say you whip them like no, it's not that kind of thing. That was funny though. Sorry. Go ahead. That was funny. Exactly. And then you just you just crud it's cathartic. You feel good. Exactly. You're like you try to like look at over it and you're fine. You you you pause you just say to yourself in your mind, okay, what are the actual facts here?

35:29Yep. And the truth is because the situation has come up before the next time it is actually going to be similar. So the fact that we thought of different interpretations right now is going to make it that those will come to mind more easily next time. How interesting. But even if they don't simply just try that as an experiment. Do it one time this week. If you do, you know, let me know if you don't mind, send me an email about what happened when you did it. And just pause and say, okay, wait a second, what are the facts here? Yeah. And then when you got clear on that, how else can I interpret down? And with this, this is funny. We're going down this whole thing, but this is good. This is good. Now what about this? What about you don't react that crazy at that moment? You kind of just you you kind of see what's happening. You you get it, but you don't address it in that moment. But let's just say 10 minutes later or 15 minutes later, I say, hey, come here. I just want to talk to you about some. And it's a very calm like a very calm loving kind of conversation. You know, I know I actually did see that. You know, why would you say that

36:34you didn't and not in confrontational try to keep it as as trying to get to understand on their level why they would react the way they did. Is that is that work at all or would that inside possibly working? Yeah. Well, it depends how old the kid is, you know, and how much inside they have. Let's just say he's 11 in this story right here. Let's act like he's 11. Yes. I have known 11 year old who can have that kind of reflection ability. When you use the why question, it really sounds accusatory. Why would you do that? Just because we because we use it that way. It's just not you. Why would you do that? Doesn't mean why like you can go out of your questioning. Right. You can ask that. And whenever I do, you know, with an adult, I say, I'm just going to say this and it's going to sound accusatory. I really, but if I'm just curious, but you have to say all that, right? Yeah. And what you could do instead is you can say, you could name what you think the positive intention is. You can say like, you know,

37:39I imagine you said that because you're mad. You didn't want me to be upset with you or you might have been embarrassed about it. Is that right? And then they can say yes or no. Either way is good. You've made progress. Yeah. I like that. I'll tell you. I like to do that. Another one that you can do, this is a phrase that you'll hear in all kinds of coaching and therapy is how does it serve you? So it's like, okay. So back there, I saw you do this. You said I didn't do this. And I is wondering like, how does it serve you to say that? You know, and so they might be able to use that question or what does it get you as another version of it? What does it get you to say that? That's a little more casual. Yeah. Like what does that do for you to say that? Or what does it get you to say that? And that's a question that a lot of times people, a kid can answer. Yeah. You know, nothing's 100% every context. I know. I know. But it's just good. It's good practice to just do this to have the conversation and to talk about it. It happens. We're dads. We're parents.

38:48We have these things every day. You know, we have, we have, we have, we have, we have, we have not that they lie every day. But no, but that we have things. You know, come up. And I think the ones that it's interesting is your material is different than Mitchell's material. Mitchell's more about, and how he has made me a better father. And I've told him this already. I've told him this, and he always, he's very thankful, you know. And because I try to practice the things that I learn and how what he does is he, he allows me to put my, there's times where it's me where I need to put my phone down when my kids are asking for something. And I'm not being 100% present. And all of a sudden, he died. Come here. Look at this. I don't have time right now. I'm doing something on my computer. Can you just hold on? I'm not, I'm not ready yet. I'll be right over. Mitchell's in my head of, dude, how many times, and this is the stuff he says, when's the last time your son's going to say or your daughter's going to say, hey, come take a look at this.

39:48Ouch. Yeah. Because really seriously, I get chills every time. When is that last time? You don't know when that last time is. We don't have that privilege to know. And I'm not saying that anybody passes or anybody goes anything morbid like that. I'm just saying he says when there's 17, 18 when they're 19, it's not, they're not going to be around to say, Dad, come take a look at this. Dad, why don't we, why don't we watch this show? I mean, we don't have, we don't, we don't know when that last time's going to be. So, so that's the stuff like I love what you're doing. Because it, it definitely is, it's very useful for anybody. It's a parent or a father or whatever, you know, in any way, it's good stuff because it, there might be that time where it snaps in your head. Where you go, you know what? What Josh said, I'm using this now. I'm going, I, this is helping me with my relationship. And that to me is exciting. And that's why we like doing the show too. I can bring in people like yourself on here. So I think that was a really good practice for me, for us right back and forth there. I was really good and I appreciate it. I know you bet. So, so what I'm

40:49hoping for is that, you know, for the next like couple of years, it's just like, Mitchell's in your head and I'm in your head. So great. They don't definitely get a new therapy. I'll be coming to somebody else in these words. So there was one other thing that I wanted to cover before we wrapped this up. And this has been a great show. There was something I saw in here said, how to disagree with your wife without undermining her. Whoa. Yeah. Here we go. Nobody wants to talk about this, right? We're all like, okay, show's over. Gotta go. All right. Yeah. I'm sorry. We're right now. Yeah. Sorry. We're in that time. No, but seriously, let's let's talk about that. I mean, you wrote, I read it somewhere. It was in your material. So let's let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. So and, you know, look, my wife is very savvy also. She's a psychiatrist. Oh, awesome. Wow. And so she's very savvy with all this stuff. And of course, NLP, she's, she's been learning from me too. So she also knows, you know, a lot about it. She sees some of the

41:50stuff. She's like, Oh, that was cool. Yeah. I want to do that with the kids. And then other times she'll say, are you are you using NLP with me? I'll say, yeah, I'm just saying, that's okay. Go ahead. I look. Yeah. That's hilarious. That's good. That's good. But, but yeah. So this is all about coming back to that idea of of pacing, like meeting them where they are. Right. So she's, she's disagreeing with me. You know, unless just take something simple. Right. We, we just moved and we got this, you know, this is something where there's not going to be a whole lot of emotion around it. Sure. But it's the kind of thing where it could, where we both could dig in our heels. Like there have been things in our lives where we have dug in our heels on this kind of thing. And I was like, you know, to use the round table and like get rid of the, the nice, you know, big table squared and rectangular one or should we use the rectangular one and get rid of the round one. And, and we do disagree on this right now. Right. And so like, this is real. Right. There's a real thing. Yeah. There's a real thing.

42:52As we speak, right. And, you know, it's so tempting to just go with, like, just trying to believe even more that I'm right and has to be this way, right? And trying to justify and explain to her why this is better and this fit, you know, and what matters is if I want to influence her some way. Like it does not matter at all. What is in my head? It matters what's in her head. It matters what, you know, why she wants it to be this way. You know, it matters what problem is she trying to solve getting back to that positive intention. Right. It matters what she thinks are the consequences of this, you know. And so when she's saying, like, no, it should be this. And you know, I might say, look, I actually really, in this case, I'm really liking the round table. But what would be the problem with having the round table, right? And then we start getting

43:53somewhere. So, so if I focus on trying to unpack how it actually makes sense that she's right. Yeah. Then we can have a useful conversation. And it turns out there's a lot of things that I don't have a good answer for in this particular case. I did try to unpack it. She wants to be able to have dinner parties with more people, right? And it'd be nice to have a big table for that. I don't have a good solution for that, right? And she wants, she also likes the way, you know, it looks fancier. You know, we want to look, she wants to look like a grown up, right? So it's like, okay, well, at least now I know, like how to, like, let's come up with some ways where we can have dinner parties and feel like grown ups. Yeah, right. Right. So she's, so she's team round in your team squares, that right? She's, in this case, I'm going for the round table. She's going for square. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, so and that's where it's at right now. So you're actually, you're, you think you're going towards her, the square? No, no, I absolutely think the round table's the right thing. That's okay. But I'm done. And I will continue to let that be known, right?

44:57Right. Right. Right. But when I talk about it, I'm going to be talking about like how we have dinner parties and how we dress it up and feel like adults and what we do in the room to make it really feel like, you know, an adult place that we want to have people over to for. Gotcha. You know, like that's, that's the conversation. It's not going to be about the stuff I was thinking about, which is like, it's easy to clean and like, when the kids are running around, they're not going to smack their heads into it. Gotcha. No, I get the, and that's a big thing with kids. The round of square has a lot to do with tables because of the, the, the angles on the squares and stuff like you want a square table. Yeah, it's not three year olds, you know, yeah. Yeah, this is going to be a serious. So are we going to have you back on to talk about who wanders? How's this going to work out? Awesome. Awesome. Well, so ideally, I guess we get to the point where we both feel like we want to. There's our deadline on this thing. Like when, when do you want to, when's the table thing going to be over? I think because like, I think the

45:59deadline is like a default because when you move, right, you give up after a little while. Yeah. So I figure after if we get past the one month mark, then just, you know, just getting used to however it is kind of sets in, right? That's true. And also what works for the house. I mean, that has to do with the flow of the home. I mean, that's, that has a lot to do with it. Josh, let me ask you what, what, why, why do you like the circular table? Oh, well, because it's, it's much easier to clean. And because like, I want the kids to be able to run around. We finally have a house where there's like a circle, you know, and I don't know if you had that as a kid, but like, I know what you mean. Oh, we lost our audio. We lost our audio. How do we lose this audio? That's sorry. That's a circle. Yeah. There's a circle where you know, that's like the funnest thing in the world. I guess like, I'm still imagining, yeah, the kid and running around the house. I got it. I'm also thinking about like, how can you build four sets out of the couch

47:00and things like that? Oh my god. I love really what my wife's thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Bank of fours and stuff. Okay. I mean, that's, we always just to do that stuff. Well, I'll be really excited to hear at a certain point, which table you end up with. So you'll have to let us know that we could let our listeners know and we'll find out, you know, how it all works out. If we see with bruises on your head, if you're on Instagram, right? And you have bruises on your head, we're going to figure that you lost. That's right. That's right. We're going to figure you lost. But no, hey, thanks for sharing all this with us. I mean, we, you know, believe it or not, we're almost at 50 minutes. This is incredible. We had a great conversation. And I just want to say thanks for being on the show. But definitely people have to pick up the book, the difference that makes the difference. Also, check out his website, amazing dad. It's an eight week course. Obviously, you can tell he's going to be very helpful with any dad or any family situation because he did it right here on the show. We kind of tore down the whole lying situation. And I think it was great. So thanks for being on here. Thanks for being open. Thanks for being vulnerable about everything.

48:02And we appreciate it. So how do we get in touch with you and how do we find out who, where you are, who you are? Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned the website, Josh Davis PhD.com. And you couldn't, you know, you can message me there. You can also write to Josh at Josh Davis PhD. If you go to the website, there's also some free downloads, just tools for dads. Moms can use them too. But obviously, I'm, you know, presenting the stuff for dads. Sure. They do work for everybody, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's also an AI like, you can get the book, but you can, you can talk to the book. You can ask questions of the book, you know, so awesome. I'm happy, you know, if you, if you, you know, reach out, I'm happy to chat. I love this topic. I love being a dad. It's just like a really fun, interesting space. Like, let's all be amazing dads and have some fun doing it, you know, I appreciate it, man. I'd seems like you're doing a great job. I just from what you're to saying and everything there. I think you're doing a great job. We're all just trying to be better every day, right? That's all we can do is try to be better. That's right. All right, man. Thanks

49:04for being on the show. We will see you soon. Okay. Sounds great. All right. There we go. All right, guys, you definitely got to pick up this book. The difference that makes the difference Josh Davis, what a great conversation. A lot about dads, a lot about how we can, you know, really listen to our spouses, our kids and maybe not freak out as much as we normally do. I definitely learned something today and I hope you did too. So come back next Thursday, 7 p.m. for another wonderful guest. You'll learn all kinds of things and we are so appreciative that you're here every Thursday. All right, that's about it. Thank you. Hi, this is Brad Weisman. Come back here every Thursday at 7 p.m. to watch the Brad Weisman show. We have new guests every single week and we love having you as an audience. All right, we'll see you soon.