Nembhard’s Evolution + Mathurin Top Pacers Moments

This is Tari's Helbert and you're listening to Setting the Pace.

What is up Pace donation?

Welcome back to another episode here of your go to Pace's podcast and returning to the

podcast after a week in the way it is the one the only the president of the Germain on

the Oping Club Michael J Fachi Fachi welcome back brother coming at your lives through

the zoom screen.

I am back.

Oh, good.

I recharge with the family celebrate my nephew's first birthday and family first, but

I am back to talk about these Indiana Pacers doesn't seem that I missed much.

Missed a win.

Those have been hard to discuss this year.

So I can't say I was the rule that we won, but you know, always always stinks to miss recapping

a win.

Yeah.

The biggest games of the season, one of the wildest games of the season on Friday night

to Los Angeles Clippers and the Pacers comes down to the final four tenths of a second.

And that took like 10 to 15 real time minutes, the longest ever that I can remember.

So we'll talk about Matheryn and his return and then of course, Matheryn in general because

we're going to be doing like a top five, Matheryn moments here at the end of the podcast.

But I wanted to start things off with the other person that was drafted in the 2022

class, Andrew Nimmard, 5352.

This has been really such a great opportunity for Nimmard to be the lead point guard to kind

of just showcase what he can do.

And I have a ton of stats, but I kind of want to just get your polls from just watching

without going to all through all the numbers.

What's been your like polls on how Nimmards played this season?

My polls is early on.

It looked like he was out of place.

It looked like it was, hey, this is more of a two guard playing point guard.

And it felt like it's kind of isn't what we imagined when we said, you know, years

ago, hey, they're probably a team like the San Antonio Spurs.

For instance, I would love Nimmard as a starting point guard or anything like that.

And as he obviously then suffered an injury, but came back, became more comfortable.

You really saw him settle in.

So put to put things a perspective, you know, for early on the season, we shoot about

41% sub 34% from three, you know, the assists were about six and a half that the turnovers

were about two and a half.

So nothing too impressive.

And I felt like month after month, he got better and better and you saw his shooting percentages

rise up, his assists rise up, his turnovers come down.

I really feel like you saw Nimmard settle in and a player that has absolutely shown growth

in a bigger role, which is everything that you could possibly ask for.

When you can't replace a man like Tyrie's Hal Burton, but I think we got a guy that

at times has borderline looked like him from a passing perspective.

No, I think he's gotten significantly better as the season has prolonged.

And I think he's just gotten more comfortable with his role.

And I think also you have to like the factor into how many guys were in and out of the line-up

during the earlier parts of the year, how many injuries that the Pacers have, who was

he throwing the basketball to?

We know Matthew missed a good amount of time.

We know Nismith missed a good amount of time.

So he was, yeah, we top it out for most of the season, right?

So it's just like he missed so many key guys.

And then you have all these new guys trying to figure out the system as well, playing on

the fly.

So there's a lot, but you kind of went through some of the stats there for what he's averaging.

He's played 57 games this year, 16.9 points, 7.7 assists and 2.4 turnovers.

Those are all career highs, Fachi.

But listen to this, his usage rate is a 23.6% this year compared to his previous high

of 16.3 last year.

He's got a 7.3 percentage uptick in his usage rate.

So I thought that was interesting.

So although he's averaging more turnovers per game this season than he's ever hatched,

look at the usage rate.

But what's really interesting to me is his turnover percentage is a career best at 13.8.

So based on the amount of times he has the ball, his turn of the ball over a lot less than

he previously was.

So his assists percentage, Fachi, it's jumped from 22.5 last year to 37, 22 this year.

So that is awesome.

And just like, you know, when you mentioned A is his turnovers are career high.

Yeah, you know, give everyone, you know, anyone more responsibility the ball in their

hands, more and more minutes, anything like that.

That'll happen.

But you and I have talked about how for anyone in the top five and assists, he's averaging

like one full few turnover than anybody ahead of him.

And those guys that are ahead of him are like true star players for the most part.

So I've just been incredibly encouraged what I've seen over the past few months.

And also we had to remember, Netmar, to someone that was looked at as arguably, you know,

the most improved player of the year coming into the season, the betting odds were on

him.

And you know, maybe if he and the team had stayed healthy, maybe he could have given,

you know, a bigger run at that, but like 17 points per game, 7.7 assists and, you know,

just improving across the board in many categories is nothing to overlook in a lost season.

This is a big step forward for a player in year four.

I don't know who the odds on favorite is to win the most improved player of the year.

But I think Ryan Rollins is definitely got to be up there.

I mean, the guy from like 6.2 points to 17 points per game.

Like that had been hard for Nimhard to overcome that just because of how drastic of a jump.

But Ryan Rollins was part of that 2022 draft class, believe it or not.

So it's kind of interesting.

But I wanted to share this with you of the 57 games that he's played.

Nimhard has 14 of those where he's had 10 or more assists in a game.

He's also had 20 games with 9 or more assists and then 26 with 8 or more.

So over almost half the games, he's had 8 or more assists in them.

Now, if you go to like the 7 mark, I'm sure it's even more than that.

I'm not going to go down through every starting number.

Hey, you know, but that was interesting to me.

So Nimhard is 7th in the league overall this season and assists per game with 7.7.

He is 11th and total assists for the season with 437 or easy for the amount of time that he missed early on.

He's missed 18 games overall.

So of his top 20 assist game, 14 of them have come this season.

So if you're looking at his whole career and the top 20 assist games that he's ever had,

14 of them from this season, he said his career high against the Lakers last Wednesday with 19 assists

and his previous career high was made against Miami on December 27th this year with 16 assists.

So in those two games, 35 assists for combined total of 88 points responsible for for the team in those two games.

So that was pretty interesting.

Yeah, I really is.

And when you talk about all the double digit assist games he's had,

he said 10 or more assists in his last four.

You can make some of this best basketball right now.

And in terms of the six players above him in the sys per game, look at these names.

Yo, Kade cutting him.

Okay, those are literally MVP candidates.

There's Josh Kitty, you know, as I was giving one outlier.

And there's, you know, there's Luca James Hardin and Jalen Johnson who's having an awesome year

and was an all star like.

So out of the players above him out of the six, five of them are all stars slash former MVP slash

could be an MVP any given year.

And then like I said, there's nemhard.

So out of all those players, Jalen Johnson averaging 3.4 turnovers per game.

That's the fewest of any player above, you know, from the top one to six.

And there's nemhard 2.4 turnovers per game.

So really, really love like the control of the rock that we're seeing, you know,

from Andrew nemhard, it's been, it's been incredible to see.

This is a guy that you, you know, I've really grown.

And now you are anxious to see next to Tyria's Halberd.

And when you know that if Halberd is being picked up at half court,

he can dump it off to nemhard.

And nemhard can initiate the offense for the Pacers.

All right.

Fought you the Pacers as a team have scored 8,416 points this year.

Believe it or not,

Andrew nemhard, his assist have created 1,053 points total in the 57 games that he's played.

So you think about that.

There's 18 games where the Pacers haven't played.

They're averaging like 100 and like 10 or 12, some like that per game.

I didn't do all the math on that.

But I still like just 1,053 points total of the 84, 16.

They score this year.

That is, meaning Andrew nemhard has assisted on 12.5% of Indiana's points this season.

So I thought that was really interesting.

But you kind of mentioned that you said he didn't start off great.

And then it got better as the year went on.

So I went ahead and did a month-by-month assist breakdown in terms of where he ranked

and how much he was averaging per game.

So in November,

27th in the NBA at 6.4 assist.

In December, he jumped up to 13th in the NBA at 7.1.

Then in January had his best month.

He was third in the NBA at 9.2 assist per game only behind Jama Rant and Cade Cunningham.

And then in February, 15th in the NBA at 6.6.

But March, like you mentioned, he's been playing really well this month.

Fourth in the NBA at 9.1 assist per game.

So for the year 2026,

he is fifth in the NBA at 8.5 assist per game.

Pre-all star, 11th in the NBA at 7.5 post-all star.

Fourth in the NBA at 8.3.

This is something to build on.

I mean, hey, to be top five,

I think about that. There's going to be a scenario next year

where the patients are going to have Tari's, Halberton, and Andrew Memhard

in the starting lineup.

Two guys that could be

one-and-fifth in assists.

Like, Halberton, you just get the feeling.

If you'll just lead in the NBA at 10.8 assist per game,

you just feel like Halberton could be the assist leader this year or top two or anything of the sort.

And then another stat that's just, you know,

obviously, Nemhard plays into this.

But the patients tweet this out a day ago.

30 assists are more in each straight games, a franchise record.

How are we doing this without Tari's Halberton?

It shows Andrew Memhard.

He's bringing it, like we said, four straight games,

double digit assists, some of those games, 19 assists, and things like that.

In all four of those games where he's had double digit assists,

he has not had more than two turnovers.

So it's just the stretch that he's on right now

is nothing short of awesome.

No, it's incredible.

And you can just tell he's feeling more and more comfortable back there.

Like the game against the Lakers, I was watching the game.

I was very into it, right?

I didn't even realize he had that many assists.

I kind of looked up at the scoreboard.

I was like, wait, he had 17 assists.

Like, it just kind of felt natural.

It didn't feel like they were forced.

And like sometimes you can tell when guys are trying to force things and whatnot,

especially in a season like this.

It would make sense to force things, but he's not doing that.

So I just felt like this was really cool to see.

Now, just to kind of have a nice transition here,

I went ahead and pulled up this season stats from the 2022 NBA draft class,

but looked at the guards only because we're talking

Matherin and Nimhard Fachi.

So we'll start things off here at the points per game.

Where do you think Matherin lands at and where do you think Nimhard lands at?

And just guards of the 2022 rookie draft class.

So it's kind of all over the place.

But a very specific that is that I'm not the pole of this draft.

So I make sure I'm not missing anybody.

I would say Matherin's really got to be probably do you top two?

Top three.

Matherin is number two.

Yeah, 18.8 points per game.

Guess who number one is?

Is it, that depends where we count him as.

Well, you tell me it's Shaden Sharp.

He's the 21.4.

Yeah, it's kind of questionable.

Like they had Jalen Williams listed as a guard.

So that is exactly where I was at because I was like,

it depends where we're counting them as because like,

I've seen that with Jalen Williams and it's like,

I don't, I would not say he's a guard by any means.

Yeah, he's not a front player.

I mean, he's not a four, but he does play four.

So I don't know.

They, they're, they're terminology of what a guard is versus what a center is,

versus what a board is.

I don't know.

ESPN is worse, but NBA.coms can be kind of whatever.

But this is all from NBA.coms dad.

So then Marta was fifth with 16.9.

So also to go back to your point on there, like,

Shaden Sharp's had the green light for years now.

Like Benedict Mathur was definitely being held back a bit at times early on.

We felt like if he had just been given a full on green light for his first two seasons,

I'm sure those points per game, you know, numbers are up there even higher,

probably higher than Shaden Sharp, I would imagine.

But, you know, that, that's still really interesting.

And obviously, anything that, when you look back at this class, we,

I mean, Carlisle said it first, you know, I came, what do you start off by saying?

When we look back at Andrew Neymar, it would probably be a top 15 player in the strap.

I think it became, well, probably a top 10.

And then it's like, oh, he's borderline, like potentially a top five.

Like, it's, it's pretty crazy how much gold Indiana struck with Andrew Neymar.

But there's so many different names that were taken ahead of him.

Like, you're tied, tie Washington's and you're Patrick Baldwin juniors and you're,

you know, Marjan Bo Chop and so many guys that are just not even like,

worth even being in the league or anything of that sort.

The draft is such a crap shoot.

Yeah, it really is.

And I remember we were, I don't know how you feel, but I remember I was like,

Andrew Neymar, why don't you know their point guard?

Well, yeah, that's how I felt too.

It was like, I didn't really have him on my right.

I know the pastures, I've worked him out and things like that.

But yeah, we were both as all in on Kendall Brown.

Kendall Brown was like, man, that was a moment.

You and I had a moment that when there was a trade up for Kendall Brown, get him.

And then like, they got him and that was, that was the most exciting part of his career.

I felt like, do you remember what team they traded up with in the second round to get in?

Yeah, I remember, I remember it, man, it was, it was live.

It was a moment because you were home, yeah, recording on zoom.

I was actually at L. Emporium eating wings and watching the draft with David and Carson.

And I remember doing like the live reaction, the bathrooms draft with you.

And then on the way home, we talked about the Neymar pick.

And then all of a sudden, I mean, I'm stuck in traffic.

It's just like a random traffic because of a construction.

Of course, Indianapolis.

So I'm like stuck on the road.

And you're like, they're about to trade for Kendall Brown.

I can feel it. I was like, I hope they do.

They need to trade up.

They don't move and have it.

We're like, whoa, you know, crazy man.

You trade for Kendall Brown, you know, car stop.

It's traffic bill bumps.

You know, it was, it was a big deal.

So, uh, yeah, I wish, I wish things played out cooler after that.

But it made for a great live reaction draft pod for sure.

All right.

Let's just run through a couple more of these 2022 NBA draft class guards

categories here.

Just to kind of wrap this segment up here.

Fodgy.

So for three point percentage, I was a little bit disappointed in this one,

especially just since it's just guards.

Like this is not the whole class, but just guards.

This season, Nimhard 10th at 36.1%.

Which is average career after, after that 12 at 32.3%.

So not a great three point shooting.

That's pretty gross.

For Nimhard, he's grown as a shooter.

I mean, at 36% that's career high.

And I just feel like he's the, you know, at times,

had some struggles.

There's been things you desire a little bit more like last season.

He shot 29% from three.

So to go from 29% from three to 36%, but you take double the amount of attempts

from three point land to me is a lot of progress as a three point shooter.

And I think it's only going to get easier next year with getting better looks.

So I mean, what if there's a scenario next year where Nimhard is shooting

38% from three?

Like, that would be, just thing to add to his game.

Watch out.

That's all I got to say.

This was the most encouraging.

Free throws made and attempted per game.

Mathurim first and both and Nimhard second and both.

So that's crazy.

Yeah, for guards.

Of course, of course.

I could believe that with Mathurim.

Like, we saw that day one, but for Nimhard to be number two,

that is like, that is great.

And he's averaging over four attempts per game.

It's pretty much gone up, you know, each year in his career.

And I think that's, that's really solid.

So that's, that's pretty impressive.

Yeah, 5.7 out of 6.6 for, for Mathurim and then 3.4

makes versus 4.1 attempts for, for Nimhard.

86.8% for Mathurim, 82.5% for Nimhard.

Assist per game.

Obviously, Nimhard is the first in the class with a guard.

7.7 this season, Mathurim.

Surprisingly, it was ninth with 2.3.

I was surprised to see him in the top 10.

But a long way, you know.

I was where you weren't getting an assist per night.

But I think he's definitely shared the rock a bit more over the years.

Rebounds per game.

Mathurim is second in the guards with 5.6.

Nimhard, 11th with 2.8.

And would you like to see Nimhard get more than 2.8 rebounds per game?

Yeah, I mean, look, last year, you averaged 3.3.

So that's half a rebound more, which at this point is,

yeah, it's a decent amount.

Look, he's never going to be like, you know,

we don't play that type of style where he's going to be like,

Josh Gidey's pulling down like nine boards or anything like that.

I just feel like the pastures have other players doing rebound.

But I feel like Nimhard, why can't he average 3.5?

Rebound. Nothing, nothing crazy.

You know, less than one more rebound per game.

Nothing, nothing more than just another rebound.

But that would probably happen more if you're not on ball as much

or having to guard the other team's best player,

which also holds a factor because you're not going to get the basketball.

So last couple two here, Fetch, we have steals and minutes per game.

And stills per game, Nimhard's 7th,

Mathurim's 8, Nimhard's at 0.9, Mathurim's at 0.8,

stills per game.

And the minutes per game, that was interesting.

Nimhard is 5th in the class with 31.3 and Mathurim is 6th at 31.0.

So almost playing the same amount of minutes.

No one would have expected that on draft.

And I mean, think about that.

Your second round pick and your sixth overall pick,

playing about the same amount of minutes.

And obviously it's the second round pick

who got the contract extensions.

The first one picked that did not.

But obviously it's a different,

a little bit different factors in there.

But nonetheless, I think Indiana,

you can look back at that draft and say,

there's a scenario where arguably they want in terms of the more

value than just one player.

Like there are certain teams that had great picks.

Later on, you have Julian Williams at 12 to the Thunder

was a big part of why they were able to win a championship.

You look at a little bit later,

Julian Durant at number 13 to the trade to Detroit.

He strapped about the hornet.

So there was like later value,

but no one got second round value quite

like Indiana div of the engine at heart.

I will say that it almost feels like Jalen Durant

being as good as he is where he was drafted at and traded for

makes you feel better about the Jalen Ivy pick and your Detroit.

Like you can almost say, just look at this.

Because man, that would have been,

if Jalen Ivy was who he started out to be,

the Jalen Ivy Jalen Durant tandem of that,

that those duos would have been like,

building blocks for years and years to come.

And at one point, Jalen Ivy looked like that dude

averaging nearly 18 points per game and just,

you know, playing awesome ball before he got hurt.

And obviously a lot of change since.

All right, Fachi, I wanted to kind of get your thoughts

on Matheryn's return to the arena.

Obviously, Isaiah Jackson, part of that too.

But I touched on it a few different times

when I wanted to get your thoughts on just seeing

Matheryn back in the building.

Thought it was awesome.

I thought it's everything like Matheryn has never

once spoke poorly about Indian.

And we've talked about this before.

Even when he was on the Pacers and things weren't going well,

he wasn't one to run to the media and do everything.

Sure, every now and then you could get some

my cryptic Instagram post or something like that,

maybe towards Zen, but everyone's doing that.

I felt like he always kept it professional.

And I think that was great.

And, you know, when the trade happened,

I feel like it was also one that was like giving him

a bigger opportunity elsewhere to get paid and stuff like that.

So I think it was awesome that he got the love

that he deserves from the fan base.

His teammates saw on your article.

I thought Carlisle said it great that it's just like,

it was heartwarming, heartwarming to hear that,

to see that and like one of the louder crowd reactions

from a former player.

Obviously, I mean, when you think of other ones

to compare it to, you think of what Turner got this year.

It was night and day.

I know it's a different scenario, you know, drastically,

but I felt like the fans had veterans back

and he appreciated that.

And I just feel like Indiana's always going to hold

a special part, Matron's heart.

And he's always going to hold a special part

with his fan base.

No matter how you feel about the front office

and their decisions on whether they want to keep you

or not or whether they want to value or not,

in terms of like contract negotiations,

there's two ways you can handle it.

You can handle it the way Matron did with Grace

and maybe you're frustrated off camera,

but you don't run to the media just to express your feelings

and then there's the opposite where you're Miles Turner

and you do everything you can to throw your team,

your players, the city, the fans and the organization

under the bus and then walk back everything

and say that you were just talking about the front office.

And you know, for all of the die hard Turner fans

that are still out there that still get mad,

anytime you mention it, it's just like listen guys,

I mean, even if I like Miles, I think Miles is a good guy.

I thought Miles answered the questions fairly

when Tony and Dustin were really kind of pressuring him

on his return game back, but like, he does it to himself.

Like he pre-planned, closed in the book after the video.

Absolutely, that was, it's all so far in advance.

That was not in the spot, no one could go.

And Matron does a complete opposite, he stands there

and all you can see is almost fighting back tears.

He's just patting his chest.

The crowd's going nuts and appreciation for Matron.

And it's like, Matron is here for what?

Three and a half years, Turner was here for 10.

So, you know, this fan base was loyal to Turner

for 10 years, of course they were frustrated,

but any player that's here 10 years

and doesn't live up to the hype of a 10th overall

or 11th overall pick, yeah, you're gonna get some pushback

from the fan base because you're not rebounding the basketball,

but everybody loves Miles.

I mean, the Miles chance in the playoffs

for something that I'll never forget.

Oh, yeah.

Like Miles, Turner, and like, you just couldn't miss.

And it was just like, what a moment.

And like, he wrote this whole love letter

to the city of Indianapolis during the playoff run

and then says all that he says

because he doesn't know how to just handle it the right way.

And people can get mad about that.

I appreciate Miles being real and open and whatnot,

but like, at the same time, that's what happens.

But we're not here to talk about Miles Turner.

We could do this another 24 podcasts

for the rest of the year, you know.

That's time.

Yeah.

It seems like to talk about Turner,

but Matthew and I thought you said it well.

He did a, it was so great to see him back.

And I love that the fan base gave him such a warm welcome

because it was rightfully deserving.

Whether you thought he was the right fit long term or not,

and he didn't like the trade or you did like the trade,

you can respect that Matthew and gave it as all

of the time he was on the court.

Always give it as all, always look to kill.

Like he wanted it to really be able to just straight up

hoop attack, you know, all of that stuff.

He wanted to be great here.

And I feel like if the role had, you know,

presented itself in terms of what's ideal for both parties,

financially and everything like that,

I think he would have loved to be in your long term, you know, self.

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Let's take a little trip down memory lane.

Let's talk about just some of the best

math or in moments.

Now I try to rank these in order, but my order, look,

it's up to you guys.

So I just think this one could be a lot higher.

I don't know where to put it.

So I could either make it an honorable mention now,

or I could just find a way to weave it in later.

Let's just talk about them.

I'm gonna have to label it.

All right, let's just talk about a few different moments.

I think this one always is forgotten about.

What about math and it's 26 points in game winning free throws

with 0.6 seconds left when it gets fouled against the Celtics,

Porzingus, Faldon, Gosarline, hits the first two free throws,

misses a third one on purpose.

Indiana wins.

They beat the Boston Celtics.

This was at a time where they were really starting to gain momentum

and slays in big teams.

I think it's a forgotten type of math or a moment,

but it's a moment and less.

Yeah, you know, honestly, I was remembering it

as you were talking about it.

Yeah.

Did they win that one at overtime?

They, they, I believe it was right before,

right before overtime.

Because I do remember that he found him right in front of the,

the, it wasn't the opposite side of the pace has been.

I believe it was, and I remember seeing the picture

because my buddy, Ethan, was at the game.

So we'd love to know, because who didn't Halberd

get hurt in that game, too?

Halberd got hurt.

He had the hamstring injury in that game.

So I remember being like, oh, man, this one's probably over.

And for math, they're into get fouled on that.

Like I just remember, you know, just jumping up with joy.

Like, yeah, he's going online.

He's going like, math is a type of guy that you trust at the line.

And, you know, it was great to see him hit those two free throws.

That, that was a 23, 24 season.

Yes.

I was going to hold a trip down memory lane, you know,

go, go on a little bit of a ways back.

Okay.

Obviously a magical type of run.

Like, you got to think of it this way.

It's like, they beat Boston, you know, that year.

And earlier that year, you know,

they lost the Boston 155 to 104.

So like, this is an Acer's team.

That was like, that felt like kind of like rock bottom early on.

We're like, we're giving up a zillion points to everybody.

So to like have a win like that against Boston,

after we had also beat them in the in season tournament,

kind of felt like, yo, we're going toe to toe

with the Boston Celtics this year.

Like, who, who knows?

And I'm just, you know, they were, uh,

they had a really good year that year.

Yeah, they won the championship, but they did.

So, you know, hey, it was, uh, so that was a really good moment.

I got another one for you.

Another kind of forgotten moment.

But to me, I won't forget it.

And I remember coming on this pod afterwards,

and we were, man, that, that pep was stepping that night.

All right, and it's one Benedict,

Matthew and had the strip on Yannis.

Late in the game was 122, 121.

Matthew and comes, gets the steel on Yannis with 30 seconds to go.

He gets fouled, goes to the free throw line.

Hits two free throws.

Indiana ends up winning 126 to 124.

This is like after Milwaukee had owned us for years.

It felt like that was finally us saying,

I'm tired of being pumped around.

We're not your little brother anymore.

And that obviously ended up leading to like a big year

of having Milwaukee's number.

That was an awesome game.

I was actually sitting court side for that game

with my father-in-law and my brother-in-laws.

So, it was really cool because, you know,

first time I'd ever been that close watching the game

for the entirety of a game.

And I believe Oby Topham got in foul trouble early,

and it was Bruce Brown and Matthew,

and starting at the time,

Buddy Hilder and East with coming off the bench,

and Bruce Brown did a really good job

in sending two double teams in that game

to kind of force the ball out of the honestest hands.

And that's where Matthew was able to take advantage

of that and get that steal.

But he was awesome in that game.

And it kind of showed you like, okay, this is big game bin.

And it was like, what, maybe four games later,

he gets benched for Buddy.

So, it was a weird situation,

but it was good to see Matthew and his sophomore season

get the starting job to see what him and Halbert can be.

And there was so much question mark of like,

can they play together?

Do their, you know, play styles coexist,

but if you remember that game, Fauci,

that was the one and only, I believe,

Daniel Ties appearance.

Oh wow.

Man.

Because Oby wasn't foul trouble.

Yeah, seeing the third quarter.

Took the Horde elbow to the chest from the honest.

I, I, I remember that.

I was a hard bow that night,

but yeah, Ties coming in there for a quick moment.

That was, that was great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would just say I just never forget like,

I was sitting right across or more Rick

and the Pacers bench was at.

And Rick goes, Daniel, and Daniel's like, me?

Yeah.

Like, just shot him and like, yeah.

It was honestly like one of those things where you're like,

yeah, like, Ties is a veteran guy

that knows how to play these guys.

Like, he's played international basketball too.

So it made sense to go to him because the Pacers

just didn't have that siacum yet.

So, yeah, it's just really a cool opportunity there

for Mathurine to kind of showcase himself

in a sophomore season.

And I also remember we had seen Mathurine's offense

time and time again, but Mathurine

make like a, you know, defensive play

that really kind of saved the game

with something that we really had not seen yet.

So like, that was awesome.

Now next I got another good trip down memory lane for you.

Rising star MVP, he scores 18 points,

the game winning shop, but it will always be remembered

for the chirping going back and forth with Jade Naivey.

A man picked right before him in the draft

from our own backyard coming out of Purdue.

You just know the chip on Mathurine's shoulder

was to just be like, I'm sorry, man, but as you,

I'm coming for it.

Like, I want to really be able to, you know,

just make his presence known.

I feel like that's exactly what he did

and being the rising star MVP

while the all star weekend was in Indiana

just made it that much sweeter.

Didn't he say something like, you're not better than me

or something like that?

It was something along those lines, which, I mean,

come on with math and beat your guy.

I mean, like our guy like that, that's everything

you want to hear.

Just like, sure, him up.

So always love that, Mathurine.

Oh, he said all gonna.

He said, even in the Rising Stars game, you can't guard me.

That's what it was.

That's exactly what it was.

Yep, yep.

And I absolutely love it because it was here in Indiana as well

at Gameridge Fieldhouse.

And you know, Pacer fans were like going nuts

because a lot of Pacer fans were at that game

and those events because who's traveling to Indiana

for an all-star game, right?

Not a, I mean, there's obvious people that did,

but like not a ton of people.

So that was really cool.

And, you know, I kind of wonder if that would have happened today.

I wonder what Jayden Ivey would say back.

No big matters to that.

Nobody knows what he might say at this point,

but I'd be interesting, Mike Dupconversation.

We should do a whole entire podcast segment

of what Jayden Ivey would say back

to Benedict Mather and now.

Yeah, my guess is going to be there's going to be

a lot of training videos coming out over the next handful of weeks.

But, well, on sound bites and things of that stuff.

But, yeah, that night, Mather and that was the,

the Mike Dup battle you wanted to see.

Yes, sir.

All right, let's get to some more.

All right, now I would say this is another great, you know,

memory, 38 points versus the Nix.

And he does it on 13 of 18 shooting.

And I would say this hands down.

This was the best that him and Tirey's

Haliburde and ever looked together.

Haliburde drops 35 in that win.

And it just felt like those two combining for, you know,

73 points made it seem like when they got it going on.

This team could beat anybody.

The problem is it felt like they rarely

both had it going on, like to this extent,

it never happened again.

Well, and you got to remember two in this game.

No, Andrew Nimhard, no, Aaron Neesmith, no, it'll be topping.

So your Pacer's bench was Jarris Walker,

T.J. McConnell, Quentin Jackson and Rickey Freeman

and then Johnny Furfie played four minutes.

They matched and Rickey Freeman's minutes with Jericho Sims,

who if you don't forget, the Milwaukee Bucks

gave a player option to, it's a sign with their team.

How does Jericho Sims still got a player option?

I don't get that, but Siacum was not very good in this game.

He was five or 13 from the field for 14 points.

Ben Sheppard started and had three points.

Walker played 27 minutes and kind of filled the Sheppard role.

He had six points on two of nine shooting.

So together, they were three of 13.

And that spot is like the fifth starter.

So you needed Mathurne to be great.

And Mathurne had the best plus minus of anybody.

And really just was awesome.

Haliburde was great in that game too with 14 assists.

And Miles Turner was good in that game of 26 points.

You know, probably a season high six rebounds.

Yeah, I am probably, but it's just crazy to even think

of the idea of like Siacum score on like 14 points

and a win.

It's just no consistent.

It's almost like, well, how did that happen?

No, this is the one that I struggled on the placement

of where to put it.

It felt cruel to say, this is an honorable mention,

but I didn't know where to put it.

24 points, 13 rebounds, game seven, the NBA finals,

versus the thug.

Now, I'll be honest, like the majority of those came

in the fourth when the game was out of reach.

Mathurne was like, you know, how to do it a little bit

of bam out of bio late, like give me the rock again.

I want to score it, you know, I'm just like,

well, there's many baskets as possible.

I pour it in like, you know, we're not coming back,

but like, how do you knock a player for 24 points

and 13 boards in game seven, as early as he is

in his career, I felt like at a time

where nobody could buy a basket.

Mathurne couldn't stop getting a basket.

That night is so depressing.

That was hard to like think of it in a positive way,

but if you recall, like it was a fake comeback,

don't give me wrong.

But it was like, Mathurne was making shots

and plays to make you feel like, could they do this again?

There was just a glimmer of hope in that moment.

The team of Destiny, so who knows?

Get it with the horn on, maybe something could happen.

I forget how close I got it.

It was either like, was it five or six?

Maybe six or five?

It might have been something like maybe six points or so,

but it just felt like group possessions.

Yeah, exactly.

He was like the only one doing anything

for that fourth quarter after.

McConnell was the only one doing anything in the third quarter,

but it feels wrong to brush a 24 and 13 board performance

under the Rogen game seven,

because that's crazy for anybody.

Yeah, so I think Audible mentions a good spot

for that one.

I know, I know.

The amount of sting it feels to just talk about that game,

but I completely agree.

It's like, people could forget about getting whistled

for a three-point shot and going online and it's a Celtics,

but I just remember that meant something of like us.

We're taking it out Boston.

Verse like this was like, I didn't speak for like 20 minutes

because I just knew Howell Burton was going to be out

for the entire next season,

and it just felt painful waiting for it to end

so we can podcast and it'd be absolutely depressed,

but it was a great performance nonetheless.

Well, it's hardest at here and save.

His top five moment came in a loss.

I know, I know.

And that is, if I think about like my first real like,

oh, I remember Mathram is when Minu were together

at that nuggets game, he came off the bench

and had like 20 some points in the first half.

And like, here is just Hoopin.

And we're like, holy crap.

Like if he can do this, like,

this is the rookie of the year.

Like we just got the best player in the draft.

Like this guy said, LeBron's got the probies better

than him, like, we were all in on Mathram at the time.

And you know, of course, as the years go on,

you kind of feel differently.

Your opinion shift as the game shift

and they start to matter a little bit more

and you see who's playing above him and who's not.

And whatever, that doesn't really matter.

But that was like my real memory of him

was watching the game with you.

I won't lie, because I think it was one of my first time

to see him in person.

It was great.

And I hate to be this guy.

I don't know if you remember the game ended,

but Turner had a shot to win it and he shot a three.

He hit off the rim move.

We really lost.

You know, what did the cool?

But, you know, it was just like,

I'm coming up short.

Turner came up short against Denver.

It would have been awesome.

Remember that game is we saw Isaiah Jackson make legit move.

I'll never forget.

He never did it again.

It looked like he was adding to his bag.

He like, he like, I don't know,

I don't even know how I would describe it,

but he just like made a move, shook a defender,

hit like a bit of a jumper.

He was a teen footer on the baseline.

Exactly.

And it was like, yo, is this going to be a thing

of the future?

It never happened again.

We like that each other.

We turn and made eye contour.

Like what just was that?

I thought I saw the future that night.

I'll never forget Chris Scenario took us

to the Miles Turner and take a holder event

afterwards in the old practice court.

And Daenerys like, you know, Miles,

how is it up going against Yokeage?

And he was like, he's a heck of a center, but I am too.

And I'm like, I know, I'm supposed to game winner.

You can't let us MVP.

Infamous sound bite where I was like, not tonight, man.

Yokeage is like literally could have won

like four straight MVP's like, let's just,

let's not put them in the same sentence,

but Yokeage did it.

But nah, Miles Turner did it to Yokeage,

but number one on my list, 27 points in 22 minutes

on kind of 12 shooting, 10 points in the fourth quarter

of the NBA finals to be able to win it.

It's a game that we were also together at.

I got the ticket right here,

bearing me with this NBA finals ticket

because it's a memory I will never forget.

I felt like Benedict Matherin rose on to like a national

platform that night with that type of performance.

That's something that I feel like every Pacer fan

can never forget because that game three,

it was something that it gave the Pacers a two one series lead

when no one even predicted them to even win two games

and the entire series outside of Pacer fans.

27 points in 22 minutes.

He was unstoppable.

And when he came into the game with Tijama Khan

I'll be topping, they changed the game.

The Pacers were keeping up with the Thunder starters

but they took it to the Thunder bench.

And it was a beautiful thing to see.

I just, however you feel about Matherin,

I've had my ups and downs where I'm just like,

well, what does this fit like?

You know, whatever that game right there

has solidified in me.

Look, for every misfit that he has,

that is why you need someone like that on your bench.

How much?

It's talent, it's resiliency.

And it's fearlessness because how many times do you see guys

in that moment claim up?

Matherin thrives in those moments.

Matherin lives for the big stage.

And sure, he did have some bluff games

where Carlisle pulled him early

because he was not playing great team defense

and there was things he was needing to do better.

But like this dude literally was the reason

why the Pacers won a game and it'd be a final.

So, you know, that's got to be the number one moment.

No matter what anybody says, it was awesome.

And we'll never forget it.

And wow, it makes me smile just thinking about that.

And I can only imagine how Matherin fell

watching that video and just seeing some of those highlights

of like what the Pacers organization meant to him

and his career and where he's at

and now as a player with the Clippers.

So I thought it was interesting too

that Carlisle after the trade said that Matherin

was one of the players that he spent the most time

with ever as a coach, you know, just trying to see him grow.

Like it felt like they had this like really like

strained relationship.

But I just, I think that people don't understand it

because Matherin is wired so differently.

He wants to be coached hard, but he plays like he's cool.

And it's very weird.

It's a weird complex, but it should not make you think

that oh, he's mad at Rick.

I'm sure there were times he was frustrated

with a regular rule, but he could handle it

and some guys can.

No, I think it's a great point.

And I think that yeah, there's probably a bunch of people

that would just, if you're just looking at the surface

like Carlisle hates Matherin or this or that

vice versa, nope, it's not not the case at all.

I'm sure they had a relationship with a zillion things

that nobody knows any about behind closed doors

of just truly trying to bring out the best in someone.

And when Matherin gets his payday and all of that

has made it, I'm sure who will always look back

and say like Rick, someone who helped coach him up

and got the best out of him and learned and they won.

And if you're not winning and then there's that,

like then you could probably say, all right,

I don't believe this guy.

But when you go to a conference finals without Matherin

and then the NBA finals, the next year,

it's like, all right, hey, you got to do with best to win.

And the pace is we're as close to winning as possible.

And I feel like that's why Matherin will always value

his time in Indiana to just be like,

man, we reached the highest of highs together.

And like, I think that group will always be bonded

by the like, we could have won it all

or we should have won it all.

Like that type of feeling together and I feel like

that's something that's always gonna keep this team special.

I mean, we even heard it is, you know,

when he was getting interviewed after just like the way

he was talking about TGM McConnell and others on the team.

Like, there is legit genuine love

that will always be there for each other.

And I just feel like for Matherin, man, it's like,

that's a player that I'm always going to root for.

You know, like I've said, once a pace,

you're always a pace, or sometimes that's like Jordan

or something like that.

You know, in this situation, it's Benedict Matherin.

I want to see that man thrive, becoming all star,

all of that stuff.

Of course, on the flip side, I also want Zubats

to be very good and the Pacers to have a lot of success.

So I don't regret that we made that type of trade,

but, you know, I'm wishing them nothing

but the best success.

I bet there are a lot of Pacer fans that love Matherin

that are praying that an Al Harrington situation happens again.

You know where they traded Harrington to the Hawks,

first even Jackson and they traded back for him, right?

Yep.

Like something along those lines, like it wouldn't surprise me,

but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised

that if maybe later his career he ended up with the Pacers again.

You never know.

You never know.

Depends the trajectory of his career, you know?

I maybe he ends up being, you know, I don't know,

like a really good player.

He's an all star or, you know, go to guy on a team

and maybe it doesn't work out that way,

but I do think if, you know, for a guy like Paul George,

I'm sure that you look back and there is some sort of regret

that Paul George never had the same type of success

that he had in Indiana, but obviously the difference is

Paul George wanted out.

We don't know that Matherin did and it just seemed like

that was more of just like a part of the business of like,

hey, if you're not going to pay the man, trade the man,

like let him thrive, do that type of thing.

Yeah, I mean, Rick Carlisle said a post came too,

like contractually.

We could not agree to, you know, the terms.

And so we had the trade them.

And so like, sure, I mean, they can say it now publicly,

but like they couldn't at the time for trade leverage,

but I think everybody knew, like you don't think the GM

of the Clippers new, like Lawrence Frank didn't know

that Matherin's agent and had not conversations

about contracts stuff, like come on.

But I think everybody knew that the writing was on the wall

the Pacers and how they operate.

So the only thing that I can kind of remember

I'll talk in my head that was one game that I wanted to bring up

as like an honorable mention Fashi.

Last year during that stretch when Haliburton was out,

he ended up coming back, I think for some of it,

but they got like when Turner got into like a scuffle

with like Watford or something from the, from the nets.

Remember all this stuff that was going down,

it was like crazy.

And like we're like, how are we losing to the nets?

The Pacers win that one 105, 99 and overtime.

Crazy.

In that game, Matherin had his career high and rebound,

16 rebounds.

Not so bad.

Yeah, 28 points on a ridiculous 10 of 17 shooting,

eight of 13 from two and six of seven from the free throw line,

three assists, two steals, three turnovers in that game,

he was a plus 17 and just looking at last year's stats,

there was eight games Fetch where he had 10 rebounds or more.

The Pacers were seven and one in those games.

So we just, we always talked about

how good of a rebounder Matherin was for his position.

And that's another thing that I think people overlook.

Yeah, it's almost like kind of like when he wanted to be

because you would see those performances, 13 boards, 16 boards,

then there'd be another game would be like,

not to say zero, but like one or two or three or things like that.

So I just feel like at times he could be underrated rebounder.

And like you said, he's averaging like 5.6 boards per game this year.

And like I just feel like that's improved.

You know, I think very last year's 5.9,

an early on his career was like four, you know,

for his first two seasons.

So to be, you know, slipping in about two more rebounds per game,

man, it's like a 50% bump.

So I do think that there's going to be a scenario at some point in his career

where I think he probably could average like seven rebounds per game.

And that would be really good production

when you're also scoring arguably 20 points per game.

So I do think that that is something that is in the future for him.

Great to see him, you know, averaging 20 points per game

with, you know, the Clippers seeing them winning,

doing stuff like his play contributing to winning basketball.

So it's awesome to see I'm happy for him.

Just overall, I mean, just this is a guy that like is special.

When he's on, watch out.

He's an absolute assassin.

And, you know, I think just like, get in the free throw line.

I mean, we knew this from from day one.

Like his ability to get to the free throw line

was unlike anything we had seen in Indiana.

I mean, we remember the days where it's like,

as much as, as great production as supporters was putting up,

he wasn't getting the line.

Like, he wasn't getting any whistle period.

And then all of a sudden, you just see Mathurin as a rookie,

almost averaging six free throws per game.

I mean, right now with the Clippers,

he's averaging 8.6 free throw attempts per game.

Like, oh, that's how I was stunned when he missed those

free throws against the pace.

He just felt like it was just like, hey, this is, you know,

interesting because at times, this is a guy that, you know,

first career is, you know, he's, I guess I can 84% free throw

sheer, but there's been times where he's shooting 88% or more

for the free throw line.

Well, it's crazy in that game.

He shot 12 to 15 from the free throw line.

The pace is the team shot 11 to 15.

So, yeah, you know what I mean?

And he missed the second one on purpose because they told him

to. So he really only missed two.

But the last game I'll bring up, and I'm sorry, I just,

I wanted to touch on this one too.

Remember in the 23-24 season against the Mavericks,

when he actually tore his labor in the middle of the game,

played through it, and then wasn't able to play the rest

of the season.

In that game, he had 19 points off the bench.

And the Pacers just absolutely like beat the crap out of the

Mavericks. It was 137 to 120.

Every pace or that played significant minutes in that game,

Walker and Kindle Brown played less than a minute.

So everyone that played significant minutes scored double digits

except Aaron Eastmith, who had six points on one of three shooting.

Okay?

Nimhard had 10, Miles Turner had 20, Halibur had 19, 13 for

Siakum, and then he had 13 rebounds and six assists.

Siakum, it's a really good game from him.

But math running in that game, I remember he'd have stepped back

three over Luca in the corner.

And we were just like, whoa, you know, like, and he was talking

afterwards too, like he wanted all that smoke.

And everybody like Jalen Smith, 11 points, McConnell 13,

top and 14, Shepard 12, Math or 19.

So that was just a really fun game.

And I remember it so like man, everything was clicking

with this team at that time.

And they were kind of heading towards like this like deep run.

You could just kind of feel it like people are sleeping on

the Pacers, but they're fighting to stay out of the play in

and they're trying to be a sick seed.

They are, you know, going to be facing Milwaukee more than

likely, but I just I really wish Math or would have been

healthy for that first playoff run.

Would love to have seen the difference that it would have

been like for him.

Yeah, area really would have been awesome.

It's just like, you know, we can't say that, hey,

maybe we beat Boston or anything, but it was like an

incredibly close, you know, or you know, tight contested

sweet, you know, it was one of those right now.

You can't say, hey, man, we almost took him down and

say, no, we didn't win a game in that conference finals,

but they were all really down to the wire type of games.

And we just missed or like wanted him to have that type of

experience.

So I'm very glad that it worked out where he we were able to

have him go to the NBA finals nearly win it all all of that

stuff. I just feel like, you know, fueled the hunger for him

as a player to just be like, man, I don't want to just score.

I want to win and I feel like when you taste winning, it's

something that you always want to do.

If you have not tasted winning, you could be a player, honestly,

I saw this earlier today, Zion Williamson's one of like two

players to be picked, you know, number one overall and never make

the playoffs through seven seasons.

So like that's got to be rough.

He's just spinning his wheels in New Orleans like while other

players are, you know, winning.

So I just feel like for Matherin, this is a fun trip down memory

lane, some incredible moments that we got to relive that I

think that like this almost makes someone want to be like, you

know what, if I'm watching on YouTube, I'm already here.

Let me just pull up the highlights.

Game three NBA finals or game set, whatever it may be.

I want to see that moment again.

I told you I still got the Matherin jersey.

I ain't ever getting rid of that.

That's always going to be fresh and a little little story over

here for those of you in my, in my, my real identity when I'm

Clark Kent, when I'm not on the pod, you know, when I'm just a

mere human being, I manage a sales team.

And at that time, my, my team chipped in from my birthday and

they bought me a Benedict Matherin jersey.

And I just remember, yes, I just remember getting that and

Matherin was scorching.

Huh, it was November, November 17th, you know, big birthday

guy out there.

And at that point, November 17th, Matherin was the hottest man

alive off the bench.

Like that guy was looking like six man of the year, borderline,

all star, things like that.

So I will always cherish that Jersey, the people who got it for

me. And you know, even the fact that he didn't hear anymore, I'm

obviously going to need like a Halberton Jersey at some point, but

I'm a whole lot of that Matherin jersey and wear it well.

I think that you should invest in whatever rookie we draft in

the top four for their jersey.

I mean, that, that's honestly probably we have really, really

good idea.

Well, I haven't had Halberton Jersey, you know, like obviously

you got to get a Halberton Jersey.

I got a, I just have to get bold, but like, yeah, if it's like

A.G. to be able to say, I want that.

I want that, you know, who's your, do you want it?

A little bit less, a little bit less, but like a little bit

there in Peterson, because you'd ever wear it, a little bit

less.

So like I wanted to pass Jersey, I want that, but the other guys

like come on, I'm going to support you.

If you're a pacer, you put on the Jersey, I'm ready to rock

with you, no matter what.

Just remember, everybody wanted Jay and I, if you've got

Benedict Matherin, everybody wants A.G. to dance, then we might

be getting somebody else.

And I just got to trust the front office.

I just got to trust.

And because I just feel like, you know what, time after time,

did they seem to have their eyes in years, you know,

close to the pulse of what's really going on in the league.

And we might trade for an Aaron Eastmith.

And people might say we got bubble gum and a paper clip

and a piece of string or whatever it is.

And we might say, wow, you know what,

this player is incredible right now.

So yeah, I trust the front office.

If you're lost, you can look and you will find me time after time

and that right, Fachi.

That is, that is great lyrics.

Absolutely right.

All right, we're going to wrap things up.

Fachi is going to be back tomorrow to recap Pacer's

bulls because nobody is more excited than to see no

Andrew Nim, hard, no Aaron Eastmith, no Jared Swalker

and no TJ McConnell.

So it's going to be Quentin Jackson, Ethan Thompson,

Ben Shepard running the point.

We're going to have ourselves a lot of fun.

Oh, Cam Jones, what do I think?

Cam Jones, of course.

I mean, I understand you might be forgetting them.

It's, you know, I think Carlisle forgot him.

Jumping off the page too much.

But it is one of those games that you want to get through.

All right, like, but hey, we're going to bring the entertainment

on the show.

I will be ready to rock.

So if you're not and we will see what happens

from that one.

The tankathon race is absolutely on.

As we speak, it is a edge of the seat material

on absolute nail bider as the season winds down.

So we'll be giving you a tankathon spin at the end of that one.

Fatsheed, the last two spins that I did

have we got a third and second.

I mean, great, that's awesome.

I got to love that.

That is something that you can live with.

It doesn't, we ain't in a world where it's, you know,

first or our bust or anything like that.

It's, this isn't one of those draft classes

or as when be your Scoot Henderson.

You know, so I feel like we can, we can realize that

if we just keep this pick, that that is a win in itself.

Absolutely.

So that is Michael J. Fatshe.

He is going to hold it down tomorrow.

Not sure if we'll be back together this week or not,

but if we're not, we'll be back next week for sure.

We'll knock out a lot of content during the off season,

of course, as we get ready for the draft lottery.

And then hopefully leading up to the draft a lot to talk about.

So with that being said,

Pacen Esch, we appreciate you all so much.

If you haven't already, please follow us on social media

at Pacer's Pod STP.

And if you're looking for us on Twitter,

underscore FACCI, I'm at Alex Golden NBA,

check out all of the articles I've got going on

over at Sports Illustrated for Pacer's on SI.

And then Fatshe's always tweeting throughout the game.

And if you're not following Fatshe Instagram,

it's probably because you don't know him personally.

But he's got some motivational stories

that he's posting every day at cringe fitness.

I mean, I'm in crunch fitness, sorry about that.

Yes, that's good.

That is good.

That is good.

Love a good pump in the morning.

Just trying to keep up with my kids.

You know, I give a lot of piggyback rides,

a lot of running around.

I got to stay fit and I got to show him how it's done.

Yeah, and he might be getting a call from the meds

because they might need some help.

They're down two to nothing to the St. Louis Cardinals

and Jay, Jay Weatherhold, Squirtle Run.

So did he, my man for West Virginia.

Oh, yep, you know it.

You know it.

So I will see how this game finishes over.

I can give you some smack talk like Matthew.

You'll be on the mic, I won't be.

Yep, yep, we'll see.

You won't be able to defend yourself.

So we'll see what we got.

But, hey, appreciate you guys for tuning in.

I hope you enjoyed the highlights of the past,

the math for NEMR and everything in between.

All right, everybody, let's talk tomorrow.

Peace out.