Nedra Glover Tawwab: Stop Doing Work That's Not Yours

0:00A lot of the women that are listening, they are the strong ones. They are making it all happen. They are also burnt out and they are stuck. Once you take that on as your identity, you start to think that I am the only person who can do these things. Are we excluding people? Are they excluding us? When you have a big busy job, you have to figure out those other areas of life where you need to be a little more flexible with being the leader. When I just carry it all and then get resentful, that's the problem, right? My guest today is a dear friend of mine. One of the girls that went over there, she's big money, and it was my guest today. Her name is Amy Porterfield. Amy Porterville, the ever-amazing best-selling author of Two Wies Notice, Miss Amy Porterville! Let me tell you something I had to learn the hard way. For years, if something in my business needed to get done right, my answer was basically, I'll do it. It'll be faster if I just handle it.

1:01I know exactly how I want it, and I wore that like it was a strength, like it was the whole reason any of this worked. And then at some point, I looked up and realized I'd made myself the thing everything ran through. Decisions waited on me, projects stalled until I weighed in. I'd built this whole business and that business couldn't really breathe without me standing in the middle of it. My guest today, Nedra Glover-Tawab, has a name for what was going on with me. She calls it hyper independence, and the part I find most interesting is that she says, we were not born that way. We pick it up somewhere, usually back when handling everything ourselves was the safest or the only option we had. So the instinct that helped you build something is often the same one, capping how far it can go. Nedra's the person a lot of us have to thank for the word boundaries even being in our vocabulary. She's a licensed therapist who's been doing this work for almost 20 years and was included on the time 100 list of most influential people in global health.

2:06She's been everywhere from Good Morning America to Oprah, and today she's coming to the show to make the case that doing it all yourself isn't the strength you think it is and to show you what to do instead. If you're watching on YouTube, hit subscribe so you don't miss another episode like this one, and if you're listening in your podcast app, follow the show so new episodes show up automatically. Let's get to it. Nedra, thank you so much for being with me here today. I'm happy to have you here. Thank you for having me. Yes, I've really been looking forward to this. My whole team were a fan and this conversation needs to happen. The women that are listening, they are six figure and seven figure female founders, they are building businesses online, they are their own bosses, and they are taking it all on. So when I heard about what you teach and what you know, I thought we need an expert to come in here because a lot of the women that are listening, they are the strong ones, they are making it all happen. They are also burnt out and they are stuck.

3:07So my first question for you is why is it always the capable ones that find themselves in the situation? I think when you're a capable person, you try to maximize every situation, plan everything, bring the best out in people and be the person in charge even when it's not needed. Yes, you have to learn to relax, you have to learn to have areas where I will not also plan the family trip. I will also not make sure that the holiday is perfect. When you have a big busy job, you have to figure out those other areas of life where you need to be a little more flexible with being the leader. So the women listening that they do all the planning, they do the holidays, they do the big jobs and running the family and in their minds they are thinking, my partner just isn't going to do it as good as I am.

4:09And we'll go into the business in a moment but even in their personal lives and I am very guilty of this. I have a very capable husband but he will never do it like I do it. This is my head and my head. And so I just take it all over and I'm wondering, a little scared to ask because you are a therapist, what is underneath that? Perfectionism. And I would not think of myself as a perfectionist. Really? Yes, because when I think of perfectionists, I think of someone that the color has to be just right on their website or they have to say it just perfectly and I don't feel that way. So what else does it look like? It also looks like needing things to be done a certain way. Oh, I'm a perfectionist. Yes, if it's not done a certain way is wrong. Yes. When an actuality thing can be done in a variety of ways. That's why when you look at parenting books, there's a variety of ways to parent. When you look at being a CEO, there are a variety ways to run a business. So it's no one way. But if you buy

5:10into this is the only way to plan a dinner party. It's, yeah, it's going to be tough to incorporate anyone else's ideas. And sometimes those ideas are better, but we don't give them any room to have those ideas with us. Okay, I could see that because in my head I just thought, okay, there are different ways to do things, but there's a really good way to do it. And it's your way. It's my way. Yes. Yes. And I, you know, I've had this team for 17 years. So I feel on the business side, I can let go. So we can talk about that as well. But I've noticed in my personal life, I feel like I do it a lot better than Hobie and some areas. And then there's some things he does a lot better. So I'm guessing maybe if we decided I do this, you do that. And these are our strengths. Great. But when I just carry it all and then get resentful, that's the problem, right? Yes. And if you believe that you do certain things better, you will always have to do those things. That's it right there. You will always have to do those things. You will always have to do those things because no one else can do them

6:15to your liking. That creates a lot of work for you. And not just a lot of work. Will you talk about the resentment that must come in, right? It's not just me. Yeah, we can resent people for not being like us, for not thinking like us, or for not coming up with an idea first. Or, you know, when when I'm at home, it's very hard for me to relax because I feel like there are so many things to do. But my husband, he comes, you know, he gets off work and he like chills and I'm like, doesn't he see that it's eight o'clock and we should lower the shades? Doesn't he see that they're, you know, we only have four towels left. There's a lot of him. Yes, someone has to wash the time. Doesn't he see? And it's like, wait a minute. Maybe I don't have to lower the shades at a p.m. What a concept. What a concept. Maybe there could be two towels left. And I said, oh, I like I one more day of showering before. Like, maybe I need to relax. Oh, amen. I know. Maybe I

7:17need to relax. I should be able to sit in my home too and not come up with all of these side quests because it's like so many things that could be done that I really don't have to do with this moment. I should be able to relax and chill out. And I think so many of us, it's like, here are all the things that need to be done all the time. And if they're not done, if somebody sees into our house after 8 p.m. Oh my gosh, like something's going to. Yes, it's fine. Yes, I feel like my husband, Hobie, will live a lot longer than me because that man can relax and doesn't worry about everything. Yeah, do you know the statistic about men who are married versus women who are married? No, tell me now. Oh my gosh, married women die sooner than single women their age. Wait, what? Yes. Why do you think that is? I think it's a lot of what we're talking about here. Like we have a lot of care tasks. We have a lot of things to do. We put ourselves on the

8:20bag burner and guess who receives the benefits of that our husbands were telling them, get up, go to the doctor. Who's telling us to make sure we're getting our mammogram zero? Nobody to make sure we check get that mo check that on our leg. Who's telling us to make sure? Oh my gosh, did you get your nails clipped? Do you have a new pedicure? These, you know, all you living in my these are all the things we're telling our children, we're telling our partner that we ourselves are not do you need to relax? We're not relaxed. No. And so I think over time that unfortunately it you know lends itself to more stress, more output of energy whereas you have single women same age is like you know I go home and I make a little dinner and I sit out. Okay, the single ladies listening right now you are on to something. If you think, uh, I really want a really want to partner. Yes, it's wonderful. And there's a benefit here. Yes. And you know, I don't I don't want to make it a thing of don't get married. Right. For sure. I think we have to be

9:26mindfully married, mindfully married. We have to pay attention to taking care of ourselves. And when we're stressed, how we can reduce that stress low and not continuing to carry it because we're women and we should because you can really step into this I need to be the person in the home who does X, Y and Z. I need to be the person in my family who does X, Y and Z. And in actuality, we have to allow other people to support us or sometimes it's like you just can't have the holiday that you want to have because you don't have the capacity to plan it. And done period. Yes. Well, that leads me to this idea of hyper independence. And you have said, or many women think that hyper independence is just my personality, but you have said maybe it's by design. What do you mean by that? Yeah, many of us become hyper independent because we're almost like groomed and pushed toward

10:27it because maybe you do have some qualities of being a leader, being a person who is highly responsible or great problem-solving skills. But once you take that on as your identity, you start to think that I am the only person who can do these things. I am the best at doing these things. Other people can't support me. And when they try, it's not as good as me doing it myself. And so this whole thing, you've made it your identity, your personality, where you're saying, and we talked about this earlier, this does not have to be your truth. It does not have to be your truth. You don't have to be the best cook in the family. You don't have to be the best person at your company. And I think a lot of folks say like if you're the smartest in the room, that's a problem. Yes. Like you want other people around you who can support you in ways that you can't even support yourself. And so being open to having some other people is really important.

11:33And I think we miss the mark there because we get so used and used to and comfortable with doing things ourselves. Okay. So let's talk about the cost of being hyper-independent. I had a woman at a Millie Club Mastermind yesterday where she finally asked for help and had this big breakthrough. But she said, you know, through some childhood trauma that she's had, she is conditioned to not ask for help. It's been proven to her that it's not what you not what you do in her family. But she did ask for help. She had this big breakthrough. And it had me thinking the cost of doing it all yourself and not helping asking for help. A lot of the women will have wins in their businesses. They have their first million dollar year. They had their biggest launch they've ever had. And they look around and there's really no one to celebrate the win with them, especially in their close-knit friends and family because they don't understand it. They've never asked for help. They don't really let people in in that area of their business. So then they go to celebrate. And there's no one there to celebrate with them. So talk to me a little bit about this cost of

12:37always wanting to be in control of everything. We have to let people know we're suffering and we have to let them know when we're doing well. And when you let them know that you're doing well, a lot of women will say it feels like I'm bragging. What do you say about that? Benga human benga is bragging in and of itself. We are all gifted or abled in different ways. If I'm talking to someone who has vision issues and I'm like, well, I don't, is that bragging? Yeah. So you're talking about a financial ability that other people don't have. That doesn't mean that folks can't be proud of you. Yes. I'm proud of Rihanna. I don't know her, but I know she's a billionaire. And I'm like, great. Get it girl. Get it? Yes. Yes. I'm like, oh, I hate Grihanna. It's so true. No. I'm excited for her. I don't have to touch her billion or be able to get on a private jet with her to say, I'm proud of you. Yes. I know how hard that must be to get to that

13:43space. And so this belief that because people aren't in the same situation, they can't be proud of us for that we are bragging. It limits us from being vulnerable and sharing. If you are in healthy relationships with people, they don't have to be at the same income level as you to be proud of you to want to celebrate you by taking you out to dinner or sending you some flowers. So are we excluding people? Are they excluding us? Oh, that's interesting. Are we excluding people or they excluding us? I want, who's ever listening right now that that hit them a little bit. Think about that one because you absolutely could be excluding people by not letting them in. I never thought about it that way. And do we have to be in a space where everything is equal? Ooh, okay. Talk about that. I can only talk about my kids with my friends who have kids.

14:43I can only talk about my issues of being a founder with other founders. I can only talk about wealth with people who have the same level of wealth. It's good to have those sort of circles. And also, you learn a lot from people in other situations. When I talk to my friends who don't have kids, the perspective that they have is when I haven't considered. Yes. Because I'm talking to other parents. Yes, exactly. And we're all in the same boat. No, these kids do do do do do do do. And they're like, well, actually, when I was 50, I mean, they've been a kid before. Right. Right. Exactly. So aren't we all parents? Yes. Absolutely. We've all been children. Yes. So we all have a little advice. Right. Yes. This person isn't as wealthy. But do they have money? Have they used it? Have they played with Nopoli? Is there some sort of thing like, oh, yeah. You know, I think if you have a lot of them, it might be something you didn't even think about.

15:47Yes. They may say some things that you're like, wow, yeah, I didn't even know I was thinking that way or I didn't consider it from that perspective. So excluding people is something that we may feel like we should do. Oh, they don't understand they're not in the same boat as me. People don't always have to be in the same boat. So true. Can they be empathetic? Absolutely. And that is where you find your circle of friends, the people who can. And you have to let them empty even be able to find them because a lot of entrepreneurial women in my space feel very lonely. And so they might be excluding and not even knowing it. But I want to flip this a little bit on the whole other side. I have a girlfriend who every time she talks about her success or her mom sees her success. It's her mom. It's this what we call tall poppy syndrome. I learned in Australia where aren't you so big aren't you so tall? And so she can't celebrate a lot of her success. So in a situation like that where she does have a family member who puts her down thinking,

16:51oh, you think you're so good. Is in that situation does she go find her people elsewhere? She can't or she chooses not to. Okay, talk about that. She can celebrate her success or even mention what she has, what she's accomplished. But the way her mother is responding, she is choosing not to share it as a way to make her mother feel more comfortable with her success. Okay, absolutely. So it's your mom's issue, your mom lives in the world. People are always going to have more things. I don't care how much money we make. Right. There's a yacht, there's a super yacht, there's a, you know, so it's on and on and on. Yes. Yes. So this is something that people have to confront, right? Like people will have more than you. It might be your children. It might be your neighbor. It might be a lady at church. I don't know, but this is the world we live in. And so I don't want to save you from every discomfort in life. Yes, there you go. So if it makes

17:55you uncomfortable to come over to my big fancy house, get ready to be uncomfortable. I actually love that. I'd be disturbed. Yes, because the way you're going to be like, oh, you just, oh, you're going to be itching. We'll give you some Benadry. Yes, because you're going to be tired of yourself. Because what I will not do is dim my light. I will not minimize my success. I will brag. I won't be boastful. Right. But I'm in gratitude about what I have. And I don't want to hide that. No way. I don't want to hide that. And so sometimes it's, you know, when we notice that in people, it can be really helpful for us to just have a conversation like, hey, you know, I want to share these things with you. And when I say things, here's your response to them. Oh, and so I don't know if your intention is to be off putting or to minimize what I'm saying, but that's what it feels like. Some of us have a really hard time admitting that the people we love

19:01are jealous of us. Yes. And that's at the core of that. That's at the core. I am jealous. There is, I feel like I should have this in life. This is something that I won't want. Why do you have a husband that's so nice to you? Oh, your kids just love whatever the thing is. Right. We can be jealous over anything. All pink looks so great on her. It looks terrible on me. You know, we, we just make that. Anything. Yes. That is for that person to manage. We cannot move anybody away from your jealousies because it's personal. Very deep. It's so personal. It's like lots of times when people have behaved as if they're jealous. I didn't even know what I was doing. It's been, it's been very simple things just showing up. I once had a situation where someone was jealous and it came out of me just living my life by being married, by having children, by breaking cycles. And it was, it was nothing that I was doing intentionally to hurt them,

20:02like going to college. I didn't go to college to hurt you. Right. I mean, yeah, that can happen. Get married to hurt you. Exactly. I didn't get, you know, I didn't have these children to rub it in your face. But if you have insecurities or shame, those things come up with me because I am a manifestation of what you want. That's deep. And so our jealousy sometimes when I'm feeling jealous because I feel jealous too. We all feel this. Yes. When I'm feeling jealous, it's an opportunity for me to think about what is it that I want? Exactly. I always say that. What do they have that I want? What? How am I going to go get it? Or not. Sometimes. We have to learn to just allow people to have their stuff and just be an admiration and move on. Because I actually like that. I don't even want the process or what it takes. What it takes or what it, you know, what's needed for them to maintain what they have? Quick interruption. And then we'll get right back

21:07to today's episode. I want to talk to you about many chat. So if you've got a course, you know it takes months to build, but the longer stretch is in the promotion. Staying visible month after month takes systems that you can count on. People find your course through your content, but they've got questions before they'll even buy somebody comments on a post at 10 at night and you get back to them two days later. Many chat can do that for you. Someone comments your keyword and seconds later they get a DM with the one link they came for. If they write back with another question, the DM answers that too and points them to the next step. Same goes for anyone who messages you directly or replies to a story. And you're not living in your inbox to make it happen. A million creators use many chat every day. And it's an official meta business partner. So it works inside the platforms you're already posting on. Go to the link in my show notes and use coupon code Amy Porterfield for 30 days of many chat pro free. All right, let's get back to today's episode.

22:08Sometimes I have to think about that. Like do I want a TV show? Yes. Okay. So everything has to get up at 4 a.m. and work until I don't actually. Okay, wait, I have the best story for you about that. My sister's two years older. She's a school teacher and lives in California. We have very, very different lives. And when I bought my first big beautiful California home pool in the back palm trees everywhere, huge house. She came over. And I felt really guilty. Like she didn't have that and I did. And so we were sitting on lawns chairs in the backyard and I said, Tracy, I feel bad. I really want you to have this as well. And she looked at me and she said, I don't want this. I don't want this big house to have to take care of and a busy life like you and you're running around. I don't want any of that. And it wasn't a dig to me. She's just like, Oh, I'm good. And it was my first time thinking I fully projected someone else's jealousy on me. She had none of it. And so there's always another side. Maybe we're putting

23:12it on that. Maybe my friend, I know she's not making it up. Her mother has said things to her. But in my case, I was making it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It can be either war and it is very unfortunate what it is parent to child. Yes. Sibbling to sibling. It's very personal. It's very personal. And you know, I think there is some therapy needed on both parts to manage that. And also we have to be careful to not minimize who we are to manage someone else's discomfort. Yes. I love that message. That's the biggest one of this this whole thing, I think. So we're going to take that one. Let's talk about self-made. So a lot of women in my space, they wear a badge of honor self-made. I did this all myself. No one gave me any money. No one helped me do it. I didn't even go to school for this. And I love that confidence. I really do. But self-made, is it really a badge or is there something there that we got to talk about? What self-made, I think we are excluding

24:20people, systems, opportunities and resources and maybe no one gave you money. But does someone give you advice? Did you watch a YouTube tutorial by a certain person 1,000 times to figure it out? Was there someone who served as a mentor unofficially? Was there some sort of maybe they didn't give you a hundred thousand dollars, but somebody gave you ten thousand? Are there spaces for us to recognize? I had the motivation to continue this because a lot of success is just being motivated to keep going even though you're failing. Yes, yes. So that's the big self-made piece that you are self-motivated. I like that. You are self-motivated. But why does it matter that they think they're self-made or not? Why is it important that I say, here's an example, my husband was just on the podcast, he's retired,

25:22I'm the breadwinner, and he takes some credit for what I've created, not in a negative way. I was with you when we had no money and I have supported you along that. So he says, I feel a part of this. So why would it be if I'm self-made and knowing he was a part of that? Why is that important? It's like the same feeling we get when we DIY something. I did my own backsplash. Yes, right? It's like all of you pay for you. You pay a contractor. Yes. But me, I had the saw, I did the grout, I didn't, you know, it just feels so tough to be able to say, you know, I was a person who woke up every day and I didn't know matter who supported me or not, there is this feeling of accomplishment. And why is that not good then? It is good. But we also have to recognize because we're communal people. We also have to recognize who

26:22in our community supported that. Maybe they didn't get up with you every day but they sent you a text to be like, have a good day. You know, that's your motivation too. And it reminds you, I think, you do have a community. You are not alone. A community, you are not alone. And even if they're not helping you build the brick and mortar of what that is, they did something. And I love what you say about, you know, even your partner who may not even work in your business, right? You know, but rubs your feet at the end of the night. It's like, you know what, that really gave me the motivation to continue on another day. They did nothing for your business, but they're taking care of you. Very much. And he listens to me talk about this business every day and I'm sure there's days that he wishes I wouldn't it. But just listens and listens. And that's huge for me. Yeah. And so it gives you something. I don't think we'll get away from, you know, the title of self-made. Right. We don't have to. But I do want us to open it up a bit and recognize the people

27:22on the path of success. Yes, we are self-motivated. I mean, I can say that. I'm, I am self-motivated to write books. No one's set there and said, okay, girl, is your writing day, get up it? Or here's an outline or here's a, it's like, no, but guess what the books are about? People. I'm not writing a book with the the word I threw out the book. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, yes, right. No. And you have to get out there and live and be a part of all that to be able to write that. I have to be a part of that. You know, on my first books at Boundaries, Found Peace, I'm like, thank you to my clients. Yes. I wouldn't even have these stories in this perspective. So it's, it's not a self-made book. The people made it. Yes. Yeah. And then it helped me develop some ideas, but that wouldn't have been possible without people. One of my takeaways from that is that a lot of the women I talk to are lonely and entrepreneurship, which is why I do my masterminds and all of that. But then they are also hell-bent that they're self-made. And so if you're lonely and entrepreneurship, but you

28:27wear the biggest badge of honor, I did this myself. It's all me. Maybe look in between that. Because how are you excluded people? Yes. How are you not letting them in? It's very progressive, healthy, and connective for us to have people outside of our professional circle who also have professions. Yes. I have a group chat and the, the people in the group chat, some of them are self-employed entrepreneurs, but some of them are teachers. Some of them are, you know, it's helpful for me to think about things from a variety of perspectives. Some of them are doctors. You know, it's like, oh, okay, well, if I have a rash, I know who to talk to. And then the other person's like, my kid is having this issue at school. Like, yes. Exactly. I like both. I like that. Yeah. It's a balance perspective. And you think that the thing that is most helpful is for you to be around people just like you, but that's not diversity. It's not thinking diversity. You know, I think it helps

29:31shape your business to have the perspective of the people who might work in it. The people who you might work with. How do you get that? You have to create that. You know, sometimes when we see these ads and they've done something wrong, we're like, who was at the table? A bunch of people who think exactly like them. Okay. Yes. A bunch of people who are exactly like them who will be like, yes, yes, yes, not even see a different way. And not see it a different way. So having this diversity in perspective is important. And that's how we have community. Yes. Okay. I love that you said that. I wanted to start leaning toward so the woman's listening, she's taking it all in in her business as well. So we've talked a lot about personal, which I love because I don't do a lot of that on the show. And I think it's needed. But let's go to her business. She's running everything. Her hands are in everything. Now, the women listening, if they're six or seven figure, they have a small team and they have contractors, but they still every decision flows

30:32through them. Their whole launch strategy is in their head and they are running it. They are in it. How do they start letting go from someone with your experience as a therapist in it? Like, you could, we've talked about letting go, but how really do you do that? You have to hire people that you can trust, people who are capable and start to give them small projects. And once they do that, well, you give them two things to do. Then you give them three things to do. It is a trust building process. Trust. So it's not, hey, here's the job. Okay, I trust you with everything. I get it. Like, if you've been doing everything yourself, yeah, it's really hard to step back and allow someone else to do that. I have a therapy practice. And I remember when I first hired a receptionist to answer the phone. It was like, we need to say this exactly. It sounds like me. This is our script. Yes. And then once I started to trust, like, oh, wow,

31:38we're still getting new clients. Like, they know how to talk to people. It's like, I don't have to watch every email. I don't have to helicopter the client's experience with them. And so we have to learn to build trust with the people that we bring in. Yes, it's our business. Yes, it's our baby. And also it is a company. And if you are the only person who can do all of the jobs, you can never rest. Never rest. And so you need to figure out how to hire a person or if there is someone already in place, how to relinquish that control, reduce your oversight from, I have by a meeting every day to we meet twice a week. We meet once a week. Yes. We don't meet for our hour anymore. We meet for 30 minutes. So walking back with that structure of I need to have my hands on everything looks like. And what happens when she starts giving the responsibilities to others

32:43on the team? You're going to run my social media. I'm going to have you manage my launch. And it doesn't go as planned. How does she make sure she doesn't jump right back in? Because that's easy to do. Yeah, the first thing is to remember that you've messed up yourself. Oh, okay. We forget that. Oops, I forgot I'm not pretty. We forget that. Yes. Right. Yes. Like I'd be a mess of a launch too. Yeah. I've messed up many. Yeah. I've messed up a launch too. That's good. It's so simple, but such a great reminder. The other person has to be perfect 100% at a time. I only have to be perfect 75% that is so true. I can take messing up my own stuff with somebody else messing up my stuff. It must have been intentional. It must have been right. Or you just you didn't pay a close enough attention. Or you don't care as much, which those are all limiting beliefs that get us in trouble. Yes. And people can do a great job and it could be timing. It could be, you

33:43know, the climate. It could be so many things. Yes. And so just talking through what could work better next time, talking through strategies for improvement, what work, what didn't work, what do we want to do differently? Those are important conversations to have, but it's still not an indicator that you need to be the person to do it. That's what I want all my listeners to hear. It's not an indicator. It's not a sign. Here's the proof. I should be back in it. It's none of that. If you want to grow as a founder, you have to let go. So we've just got to learn these lessons. I was looking at my cards because one of the things that comes up for me is if I am doing something and I'm doing it really good and I do it well, how do I know that just my gut is no Amy, this is something you've got to own versus I'm just, I'm in the discomfort of letting it go. How do you know between, no, this really should be mine. And no, I'm holding on because I'm uncomfortable to give it away. What are you good at? Okay, that's a great question. Let's see here. I feel like I am

34:48really good at creating content. Let's say for this podcast, I have a podcast producer and she works a lot on the content and I know that I do it really well. Okay, what are you good at? What do you have time to do? Is it the best use of your time? That's it right there. Absolutely not. One, she's great. Two, I can train her. Three, she takes feedback wonderfully. And if I spent my time on this podcast and did all the research and all the content creation, I would not even have a minute to do what is making us a lot of money in the business right now where I really shine. Yes. Okay, so right away you got me. You clocked me. I done my drawing. Yeah, just because you're good at it doesn't mean that you should be the person to do it. You know, Dennis need Dennis, doctors need doctors, interior designers, need interior designers, podcasts, holes need, podcasts producers. No, it's one of those things of, do you have the time to do it? Do you have the resources to

35:52have someone else do it? And like you said, focus on other areas in your business that are more lucrative. I met companies do this all the time. I don't know if you remember Clear Pepsi. You remember Clear Pepsi? No, but no, I do not. Okay, I grew up in the 90s and they used to have a Clear Pepsi. I don't feel like they had it for very long, but I'm sure they were like, this is not selling. Yes, for sure, because I've never heard of it. It's not here anymore. Yeah, yeah, we're going to be done with this. Maybe it was one summer. Like, let's try it. It's done. It's not a lucrative endeavor. I don't care how much of a great idea I thought it was. Let's get away. Let's do away with it. Yes. So, so sometimes we're trying to do like, no, I'm going to keep feeding this thing. Well, what about the main thing, which is the mechanism Pepsi? Yes. Let's go back to the money maker. Yeah, we don't want to sell like cherry Pepsi. Yes. And it's not selling. Well, it's like, let's go to the thing that does well. It doesn't it doesn't matter how much I like this little offshoot of this other thing. It's like, this is the main thing that does very well.

36:58And, you know, if I want to pursue this other thing, maybe I need to give that to another team until it's in a space where it's actually thriving and deserves my energy. Oh, that's good. You know, a lot of founders now are the front of stage. I call it. So we are on the podcast. I'm on stage. I'm making all the YouTube videos. And that is so much work. You know this too. Like getting on camera, it's a lot of work. No one else in my company can be front of stage as much as I can because it's my brand. And so because we live in a time that that getting on camera, being front of stage is a very big part of business building. I feel as though even if I'm great at something like creating content for my podcast, no one else can do that thing. That is my zone of genius right now. And so I have to identify where do I make the biggest impact. And what can I do that no one else in the company can do? And there's very few things in my company that I can do that no one else can. So why don't I do those and do them really well? Yes. And then trust that my

38:01team will be able to figure out the rest. Yeah. You know, I do some things myself and then I have other people do them. Like you said, it's my business, it's my brand. People want to see my face on Instagram. People want me to write my books. Do I need to be the person that adds captions to my videos? No. And nor do I do them well. Yeah. Do I need to be the person who emails everyone who emails me? Yes. Do I need to be the so there are some things where it's like it is very important for me to get on stage and speak. Right. Is it as important for me to respond to every DM? Is it as important for me to be the person to create the graphics for whatever, you know, speaking and getting. Right. No. No. Like I'm okay with doing it, but it's not my, my gift set. I think there are tons of graphic designers who can do that job very well and it's not the best

39:04use of my time. So thinking about what is what is the best use of my actual time? My time is a limited. Yeah. What is the best use of that? Not what can I do? What do I think that needs to be done by me? But what is the best most effective use of my time? Is there someone else who can do it well or do it better? So true. Do it better. That's where I think we need to leave space as founders. There is someone that can do it better. I guarantee you and until you let them shine, you'll never see it. I have a social media manager who kills it. And I took over all my social media about a year ago and said, okay, I'm just going to do this. I need, I need to figure out, you know, why it's not working the way we want. And then I reluctantly gave it over to her and she blows me out of the water. I mean, blows me out of the water. But what was interesting is I spent the time to get it to where I wanted to get it to to communicate to her how I want it in the direction I

40:04want to go. We wanted to go a new direction. That was valuable for me. But being able to get in, do what you need to do and get out fast. I think that's also a big part of this. Not just taking it all over. Also, there is a cost of wearing that badge of honor. I do it all myself. I'm self-made. Look at how much I do. You will always stunt your business. We're talking purely business. Stay small in your team. Stay small in your revenue. I mean, to an extent, we don't need huge teams. But I think that's another problem I see a lot. Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point that some people believe they need a huge team. Yeah. And there's a big waste of money there. Yes. I've seen some people lose a lot of money and stumble because instead of having a person do a job well, they have like three people doing that one job and they're paying them like full benefits and this and that. Exactly. And it's like, whoa, you have how many people? 13 people?

41:05It gets away from you really fast. Yeah, it can get away from you. So finding the right people, being strategic in the job they're doing and making sure they're good at that particular job. Maybe it's not a full-time position. It's a contract position. Yes. You know, maybe that's the way you hire people in. I don't know, but you do have to be strategic around bringing people into the fall because you can't get into this thing of I can't trust anybody. I have 13 people doing it. And it's like, well, you just don't have the right employees. Exactly. That no one can do the job. You haven't found the right people and you're making this this thing or the story around no one can do the job as well as I can because you have the wrong people in place. Yes, that's another thing that I think someone just heard that and they're like, oh, maybe it's the wrong people. It's not necessarily I am doing it the best. I need to do it. I'm so glad you said so. I want to talk about your book, The Balancing Act. So congratulations on yet another bestseller.

42:07I mean, you've had some huge successes as an author. Why did you write The Balancing Act? I want us to get back to community. And I think so much has been individualized and how we show up in our relationships and our business relationships and our social relationships. I don't like late people. I can't deal with any late. The grace has left the room. It has. And it's all in the pursuit of having boundaries or having healthy relationships, but is that the exclusion of communicating, of having difficult conversations, of figuring out ways to be flexible and utilizing our people well? Are you saying that you think some people have gone overboard with the boundaries? We have become overboundaryed in some areas.

43:08I noticed this sum with like beauty services that I like to get. I was looking to book like a nail appointment and I went to this this girl's website and it was it was so many rules and regulations. I didn't even know what to book. I have a very specific one. It was so many things. I didn't even book with her because there's too many rules. Yes. I don't I just want to fill in. What is all of this stuff? What is a rebalancing? What is it? It was just so I'm like I don't even know what this stuff is. I fully understand. There's like this fine line between taking care of yourself as a business owner and asking for what you want and getting what you want, but also forgetting you are serving somebody else. You are serving someone else. I think we have become that way personally and professionally. This is the only type of person I can work with. This is the only type of relationship and people need to do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. And it's like that's a lot for people and I get it. We want to be in a healthy situation,

44:09but there is a time and a place and I think when we're overusing that one everyone, we are even pushing the good people away. There are some people who need some firm boundaries and there are other people who just intuitively get it. How do you know when maybe you've become a little too rigid with those boundaries, whether personal or business, how do you know? You turn people off. You don't have as many people as you like. People aren't answering your calls. You're not getting as many invites. Maybe there's a little chatter or people have even said, you know, you're a little mean, you're a little bracing, you're a little, you know, those are things to consider. Of more than, you know, two or more have said it, I would consider it. Yes. And everything isn't about, well, this is how I am and people have to accept me. They don't. They don't have to accept you. So true. That's actually really true. Yeah. You live in the world and you want to be a good villager. You want to be a resource in your community. You don't want everyone to, you know,

45:15compromise and have to deal with you earlier. Before we started recording, you were talking about, you no longer having a system. Yes. And you are doing your own returns. Yes. I think that's a beautiful thing to do because you know what it, it teaches us so much. You have to consider other people when you go to the UPS store. Okay. Yes. So many lessons in the smallest things. It's true. Okay. So yes, I started to do my own returns. I order all these clothes online and I return them. And I was telling her that feels like I'm getting free money back when I do. So I just spend more. But I love that you said this. And this is so funny. So Susan was my personal assistant until I moved out in Asheville. And she did all my returns. And when I started to do them, I sent her an email and I said, now I know why you always say, please save the box that the clothes came in. I'd throw the box away. Yep. She didn't have it. Yes. We went in consent. I'm really in for sale. And I said, Susan, I get the box thing now. It's the biggest pain in the butt up. I don't have the box. So I just told her there's a little bit more layers than I thought.

46:17So whether I do my own returns or not, giving people grace because I would get annoyed. Why does she need this stupid box? But you never know. So this takeaway of give people a little bit more grace. I love that message. Yes. Yes. And I think we remove so much of the grace and the understanding. And then we're just looking at people almost like they're a character on TV. Like you don't even have a relationship with them. And if we're in relationship on any level, someone we work with, someone we live in the neighborhood with, just understanding or being able to understand a bit about their story, what they might be going through. It allows you to ease up on some of these rules, on some of these things that you think are keeping you safe. Sometimes they are, but sometimes they are not. They're keeping you separate. They're keeping you separate. Mm. So good. What a beautiful conversation.

47:18I've never had a conversation like this on the podcast. So I really appreciate you agreeing to come on. I was looking forward to this. Thank you, first of all. And second of all, where can my audience find you? There's some women out there that's like, I need a little bit more of her. So where should they go? Yes. Well, you can check out my website, nedra2wab.com. I'm on socials by the same name. And I would say for your community, I think it would be amazing to start with set boundaries, fine piece. Okay. That's the one. Set boundaries, fine piece. Set boundaries, fine piece. And then when you set them, make sure you are being graceful. You are being flexible. You are understanding that other people exist in the world. And that's where the balancing act comes in. Oh, it's perfect. Perfect segue, for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you so very much. And I really appreciate you. Thank you for having me. For so long, I thought doing it all myself was the responsible thing. And what nedra just walked us through is that the same drive that built your business is often what's keeping it stuck.

48:20You become the bottleneck by being good at everything. And the part I want you to sit with is this. You were never meant to hold all of it by yourself. You don't have to earn help by burning out first. The right people in the right seats are how this stops living or dying on whether you have a good week. So if you're the one, everything runs through, take that as your sign. Choose one thing this week that doesn't need to be you and let it not be you. See what happens. If this one hit home, send it to someone who needs it and follow the show so you don't miss what's next. See you soon.