N.F.C. - Neighbors: Whitetails & Mule Deer

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1:04From volume orders to design curation. Plus, members get 20% off. Tax exempt checkout. And flexible payment with no minimums. Learn more at cratenbarrel.com slash podcast. That's cratenbarrel.com slash podcast. Pro football is back and so are predictions. Trade yours on CalShi. America's number one prediction market platform. New England is currently trading at 39% to beat Seattle. Meaning a hundred dollar trade pays out $246 if they win. Download CalShi. Use code. Heart. To get $20 when you trade 20. K-A-L-S-H-I. CalShi. Trade on anything. 18 plus only. Restrictions and eligibility apply. Trading involves risk. Not available in all jurisdictions. Prices values and markets made different from those mentioned. For more see calShi.com slash regulatory. College football is back. On polymarket you can trade what you think will happen against other fans before kickoff. Think your school is finally going all the way? Of course you do. See what other fans they chat live with the polymarket community. Then take your own stance.

2:05Once the game starts keep trading live and exit whatever you want. Or combine multiple trades into one with polymarket combos. Live now in the app. College football isn't all though. Trade on baseball, basketball, hockey, combat sports, tennis and more. Download the polymarket app. New customers use promo code Rover. Deposit $10 to get 50 instantly to start trading. 18 plus. See polymarket's terms and service for more information about restrictions and eligibility. The polymarket app is an independent affiliate of polymarket US and not CFTC regulated. Trading always involves risk. Complete loss could occur. The $50 offer is issued as none with drawable trading credit to use on the platform. Offer exclusively available to first time depositors. All right everybody welcome back to another episode of the 9 finger chronicles podcast. And here's what I've been doing. I have been going back into I would say the first three years of

3:05the 9 finger chronicles. I don't even know collection right year one through you know I've been doing this for 12 years now roughly work. We're I'm going back and I'm I'm trying to dig through some of the names. And today's guest Travis Glassman kind of you popped in my head. But a couple weeks ago and I was like dude. I I enjoyed talking with this guy. I know he's still hard at it and so Travis man welcome back to the show. Hey I appreciate it Dan. Yeah I've been I haven't been a loyal follower just because I've been so stinking busy and we kind of talked about that a minute ago but yeah I just don't have as much time to podcast but anyway yeah I'm a big fan of yours Dan and appreciate all you're doing. Yeah absolutely man. So man it's been like what do you think five six years since you've been on the podcast man. I think so that it sounds right. Yeah and I think when we when we were initial like initially talking you know and you would come on and talk about

4:11your hunting stories and I think we even talked to Turkey and we talked to Mule Dare and we talked some some white tales. You had some young boys at the time and now we fast forward five seven years or I don't even know how long it's been. How old are your boys now. Yeah so I have a freshman in high school now. They just started last week so he's 14 and then I have a 12-year-old and he's in sixth grade and then I have a daughter who's seven. Okay they've grown and that's been interesting as a dad. Yeah yeah man I'll tell you this it's uh you know I I say this all the time right I get these Facebook memories especially right around school start to learn a lot of it's like oh back to school back to school first day of school and then it's me just like holding my my daughter for her first year of preschool or me you know holding my boy for his first year kindergarten or something like that and it makes me sad dude. I'm just like oh yeah oh dude time

5:13has just absolutely flown by and life is so busy you can't even like it goes by so fast you don't even have time to stop and like really remember let it soak in enough so you can go oh I remember that I remember that and I don't that's how that's how fast time's going for me. I agree yeah my wife does a really nice job of doing the before school photos every year and of course get the the reels coming through of the memories and same same feeling hits me and I'm like man like I wish I would have you know stopped and sat down and soaked that in a little more and maybe it's just a good lesson for for me now and for everybody on the on the podcast here to you know take it in if you can. Oh dude it's so important. I just want to like I'm glad that I I uh I was sitting down last night at football practice for my youngest boy and I was so thankful like I miss coaching

6:14football but I don't miss coaching football like I was able to sit down and watch just watch him and I wasn't having to do anything else just observe him and I'm hoping that I can do a lot more of that in the near future uh where I I have a little bit less responsibility and so shout out to all the coaches who continue to coach because I'm still coaching baseball and I'll still I'll do the the fun things with my kids like take them to the batting cage and take them to wrestling practice and things like that but outside of that it's just awesome to slow down and just kind of watch your kids grow up a little bit. Yeah I enjoy coaching and I have some experience with some college baseball back in the day and so I do coach our little travel team and we did the 11 new team last year and of course we're transitioning them to 12 you this year anyway. We have a good group of dads where you know we can hand them off to the next set who are really good at football or basketball and so I'm the baseball guy and so I I completely feel what you're you're feeling as far as like being able to

7:19relax a little bit because we just passed them off to the football guys and they're they're now starting and I can just roll up drop my kid off and come back maybe watch a little bit and go take care of a couple things in town and so it's really nice to coach but it's also really nice to sit back and relax and enjoy it as well. Yeah. Are you still living in western Kansas? Yes sir. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Man and I think what really intrigued me about you initially was you live in an area of of Kansas where there's that that rare crossover of white tails and mule deer kind of like western Nebraska what you know all the way down to Oklahoma and I'm sure Texas has some mule deer in the northwest corner as well and and so I want to talk a lot about that today and living in such a unique part of the country where you're able to hunt giant white tails and giant mule deer so I want to talk

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10:35but all of the newer accessories that go along with it so thank you very much to all the partners all right Travis but last time we talked right you had young kids I don't even know if your daughter was born or not if she did it was a maybe a brand new baby at the time how has your hunting life changed in the last seven years so definitely in the last couple it's more focused on what I can do to set myself up for success but now it's how can I how can I get my kids one out there and two in a position where they can be successful yeah it's been it's been you know my my oldest son he shot a turkey with a crossbow and then he has not shot a deer at all he kind of he's he's my golf kid in my like sports analyst kid he's very analytic and he's

11:35not as outdoorsy and so he kind of slowly faded away a little bit of course I always offered to taking but then my middle child archer he's my 12 year old boy um he's he's definitely taken to the outdoors and I actually just bought him a new bow like two weeks ago and we've got him sighted in out to 15 yards and I told him I said until you can prove to me that you can just keep hammering that target at 15 it you know with groups um we're not going to set another pin past that and I think we're getting close to ready for the 25 yard pin but he's only pulling like you know 26 pounds or something right now yeah and he's left I dominant and it's kind of awkward because he kind of does some things right handed um so he's having to learn how to draw a bow left handed yeah and it's just you know vertical compound for him and so everything's going well as far as getting him set up but anyway he shot his first deer last year with a rifle in Kansas it was a white tail um and so we we've been able to kind of get him out there he shot a turkey uh the spring

12:36uh so he's he's kind of getting the bug now finally I've been waiting for one of them to do that and I wonder if my daughter isn't going to be one who really wants to go and do and uh she's she just hasn't she's not old enough to kind of really take out for a long long day so it's just been short stints but anyway yeah it's been it's been different is it bad um of course I don't have near as much time um is I used to to do all the things I mean of course I get out and put cameras out and I did that uh probably the uh I would say the second week of August which is later than I like to do it but we've got cameras out I've got several reveal cams out there um doing the work you know I can't be out there checking you know pulling cards all the time like we used to so thankfully um thanks to tack to cam they're able to kind of hook me up you know through the through the this time of year where I can't be out there so yeah constantly sending me photos and taking inventory right now our youth season actually starts on the fifth of September and they can actually there's a short time where they can use um any weapon uh if they have a tag

13:40for it of course and they can they can go out and rifle hunt during that short time and in youth season in September so we're hoping to find something mature for archer coming up here in the short time so okay so you like I mentioned earlier you live in that crossover period where there's mule deer and there's um uh and there's white tail uh do you have to have a specific because for example north Dakota I can get a deer tag and in on that deer tag I can I can shoot white tail or a mule deer uh what is the rule in Kansas for that area? Sure so if if I get an archery tag as a resident I can I can get an either species either sex archery tag and I can just boh and and shoot either one so like if I'm sitting and I decide I I seen a mule deer bed down and I want to go after I'm going to go if I'm sitting in tree and a white tail walks by same thing um now for rifle um even as a resident you have to apply and draw a mule deer tag so the rifle tags are

14:47limited for mule deer um for a non-resident they have to also like even for archery they have to apply for like a mule deer stamp or mule deer portion so a lot and even a white tail tag is draw only uh even for archery for out of state or for non-resident so yeah it's it's obviously easier to get a mule deer tag as a resident uh but it's still difficult and I say difficult I probably every few years you'll you'll draw a tag for a rifle for a mule deer yeah but if you're an archery hunter you just you just go hunt yeah for either yeah yeah uh now what about for the kids does that is there different rules for kids or can your boy go out and shoot a mule deer um archery it's the same rules okay um so even even a kid has to apply for a rifle mule deer tag so they're just very limited on those but yeah um if they want a bow hunt or crossbow hunt they can they can shoot either one gotcha talk to me a little bit about maybe the the mule deer let's let's start off with mule deer um

15:54back I think the first time that we talked mule deer were kind of they're they're they're around they're not as heavy as they you know as other parts of the country uh there's way more white tails in your area but there's still some mule deer talk to me a little bit about if that's changed or not what the mule deer populations are like and what you're observing yeah so I think the last time we talked the mule deer were at my all-time low in my career um and for whatever reason I I think it was a chronic wasting thing I most deer that got taken in during that time frame or were testing positive for CWD okay um so it really took a toll on the mule deer herd um now it's going through the white tails and I've got so many places that were just absolute amazing funnels for white tail and what used to you know ten years ago I would get you know over over a nice

16:54water hole in the middle of an awesome drainage this time of year and in August you put out mineral for photos or whatever and you're drawing in you know you might get a hundred pictures of night per camera and now I'm lucky to have like a handful of photos total and and most of those are not mature bugs so the white tails um have really taken a decline out here where I'm at um I think it's better on the eastern side of the state and I think that they've kind of rebounded from some of that disease but right now we are just really struggling on the white tail uh numbers now on the positive the mule deer are slowly starting to come back the numbers are getting a little bit better I think you know white tails tend to push mule deer away um they they just seem to be more dominant they they seem to kind of push them out of an area um and so we we saw a decline in mule deer when that when our white tail numbers were way up um they just seem like they just weren't

17:59in this area as much anyway one now that the white tail numbers have kind of faded a bit the the mule deer seem to to be on the increase a little bit so actually the last two seasons I've taken mature mule deer so um there just hasn't been a good mature white tail buck that I have wanted to go after or even is available just because what I'm seeing is talking about disease uh from what I understand what I've read up on it it's it's kind of in the herd and it doesn't sometimes affect uh a deer until they get to you know past four years old say and it seems like every year I'm getting photos of of white tails that are a nice three year old up and comeer um I want to give them the pass even at four if I decide to pass um you know I'm hopeful that I'll see them at five or six and and I'm just never never seeing those big mature bucks so yeah for whatever reason it's just taken out matured and I don't think it's only bucks I think matured

18:59does obviously too but yeah it's uh I would say mule deer are are a little bit better than last time you and I talked but white tails are definitely down yeah what are the uh like the wildlife biologists and the state agencies saying about this out there um so chronic wasting disease is definitely um kind of what the what they're pointing it as as far as what's been happening um I did see a change in the amount of mule deer tags that have been allocated and that's that's a good thing I mean we've even had surveys for all of us hunters uh to take when that five year period five years ago when you and I talked when they were such a low you know we would get a survey asking like hey what are you seeing do you have any suggestions are you willing to make a change as far as how many tags are out there or you know I even I even answered you know I would be willing to to not hunt mule deer for two or three years just to let them kind of come back um now I don't they never

20:06did you know stop the season of course but they they did bring you know the tags allocated down so I think it helped but as far as like the recent stuff out here west um I haven't seen a lot of new articles on that but I think that they're aware yeah so it sounds like between hunter observations like yourself and state agencies doing their reporting and their due diligence it sounds like the culprit is potentially CWD yes I think that's most of it I really do yeah what about like man you hear especially in the western plain states right everybody knows that they're very susceptible to drought they're very um hitter miss when it comes to rain um throughout the year and it's I didn't understand that that was in normal until I actually went out there and I realized how dry it is and talking to the locals and they're like hey listen this is normal for us

21:08out here to have it be this dry um have you guys had any uh so like outside of the normal ranges of weather over the last handful of years that may have also impacted these these deer herds well it's it's definitely this year has been the best rainfall year we've had for probably the last five yeah um so I think that drought does play a part in it and and I think some of it is because whenever you have fewer water sources you have all of the deer focusing on those and if there's disease there then it's going to be transmitted among the herd right easier um so when there's obviously more water sources they're spread out more and and if there is disease maybe they're they're not coming in contact as much so anyway yeah we we've seen droughts um this year thankfully we're kind of climbing out of that and it's it's more plentiful as far as feed and and water um but yeah I would say I would say

22:09drought definitely does play a part in what we've faced yeah how do you how do you change your hunting strategy well this and here's the the weird part right I'm not necessarily just locating deer for myself anymore I understand like okay uh the the numbers are down I got to go find a deer for me well not only are the numbers down where you're at but you're trying to help locate for a couple other kids too maybe some friends maybe the wife uh things like that how are you like how does your strategy change when you're when you're dealing with a lower quantity of deer water for sure I mean that's the focus um anytime you can put a bunch of cameras you know on trails to and from water that's going to be a big deal anytime there's good feed if you happen to have a low area where you know maybe some of the crops are doing a little bit better you know of course a deer gonna focus on that um but yeah that's it's really difficult like right now what I'm facing

23:16the challenge and I'm facing right now is is can we find enough mature deer for everybody in my family to take one and do we feel right about doing it you know um so like a mature deer I don't I still don't have a problem with taking just because they don't get mature that often you know you know his history says you know it's really difficult to get a deer up to five or six years old so if we can find them we're gonna take them but yeah um they're just fewer fewer and far between and we did it seems like I'm having to buy more and more cameras to try to find anything that's that's worthy of taking you know because I really don't want to shoot a two or three year old deer right now at all yeah so are you that guy then that is okay with eating your tag if you can't find a mature buck yes I am for sure um they do they they've they've brought back a lot of the doe tags too and so you know it used to be like well I'll just go shoot a doe if I want me and

24:18we do enjoy venison and we do eat everything we kill or we have family members who also like it so we share and whatnot so um but yeah I I don't mind at all just eating a tag if I'm not going to take something mature yeah yeah this is and you know I think I live in a much different area of the country than you do I have a lot of of cover right that cover just holds more quantity of deer I'm assuming than what you got going on in western Kansas in a lower cover different cover type of state and um uh I feel like if I if I shoot a three year old there's a chance next year I'll still have a potential five year old now that now that math doesn't add up per se but that just you know that just kind of tells everybody that how much in my area deer recycle through you know uh yes even matured box like oh maybe he may not be here there may not be a five year old the hunt

25:22this year but I'm confident that that I can locate at least one uh and you know next year when it comes up but with that said it seems like even in Iowa and the the style of hunting and the access that I have that is even becoming harder and uh to to find these days and so I've kind of changed my hunting style to just be really flexible and be whatever comes my way if it trips my trigger then I'm gonna you know I'll throw an arrow at it yeah my my focus is definitely changed over the years and I used to be an antler snob you know to where oh he's not gonna hit 160 you know I'm not gonna pull the trigger and this it was the status thing and I was doing it for the wrong reasons that you know my younger career is a bow hunter and you know now I look for one is it gonna be a good experience um am I gonna enjoy you know the hunt is it gonna be you know but everything done perfectly the right way as far as like I mean I always do that but like is

26:26it going is it going to be a great story is it going to make me be fulfilled as far as like what I'm getting out of the hunt can I share with my kids you know I'm not looking as much on inches as I am an experience so I've kind of toned back a little bit on some of that and even the age part you know I'll take a buck that's you know 135 inches that's an eight year old over uh you know a 155 four year old because I think that four year old might get bigger next year you know I just I I'm getting to the point where I'm enjoying just watching and appreciating nature versus you know trying to go shoot a deer for a status thing you know yeah yeah yeah man we've all been there right yeah and most guys would be lying if they said they hadn't you know there's been some you know there's been times in my life where oh I just wanted the biggest buck in the woods and sometimes I got it and sometimes I didn't and um and now I kind of just more go with the flow type of deal right and just really understanding that the joy comes from the journey not the the

27:36trophy shot at the end you know when I got my hands around the antlers okay um all right all you white tail nut jobs it's hunting season and that means football is finally back college kickoff is here NFL is right around the corner and my bookie is where I'm placing my action this season whether you're in between hunts or just checking lines from the tree stand my bookie makes it stupid simple to lock in your place plus new users get the bet back bonus sign up with promo code SE opt-in and your first wager is protected that means if it loses you get it right back no questions asked head to my bookie use promo code SE and get in on the action today bet on anything anytime anywhere this episode of the sportsman's empire is brought to you by Nathan and sons makers of underbrush remineralizing gum I started keeping a pack at my desk for after lunch and honestly

28:36the chew is so satisfying most natural gums turned a mush but underbrush has this incredible texture and natural saps that hold up my favorite is the spirimate it leaves my mouth feeling insanely clean without that artificial fake sugar taste plus Nathan and sons makes it from scratch in northern California using the same mineral that your toothy name is made from it's such a great habit to get into because it supports remineralization and freshens your breath all at the same time if you want a simple daily upgrade for your teeth head over to Nathan and sons dot com and check out why underbrush remineralizing gum is right for you right now you can get 30% off your first order when you subscribe visit Nathan and sons dot com today you live in a state or you live in number one Kansas not a ton of trees right different parts of the state may have different

29:37you know cover even where my uncle lives in eastern southeastern Kansas not a ton of of trees down there either and you even live you live way further west and north west if I'm correct right yeah and it's even way less trees there as well correct correct yeah okay so talk to me about like how the deer are using terrain in a flatter environment in a environment with no trees where these white tail are hanging out and where these mule deer are hanging out and maybe just walk us through some of that so seasons changed everything so right now you have you know standing corn our standing corn in northwest Kansas is not nearly as tall as your standing corn in Iowa but we still have six foot tall corn or seven and that's where the majority of the deer are going to be hanging out a lot of times they're going to be finding a nice you know low spot or drainage in a

30:38cornfield they're going to be betting all day they're going to be stepping out on the edge in the evenings they're going to be working their way toward water maybe out into an open prairie to feed on you know the green grass or whatnot so any any time they have cover over their head they're going to be picking that to bed this time of year as the crops come out the deer you know I'm talking white tails first so the deer are going to transition to any drainage is any out of the way away from roads drainage that they can get hunkered into you know there's not a lot of them and so that's what I'm focused on when I'm hunting is you know those out of the way drainages are maybe it's the back corner of a section where you know if fence comes together there might be like an eight foot patch of tall kosher weed or you know you've got to think outside the box when it comes to cover with with these deer now mule deer you know a lot of times

31:43they like mylow fields those are probably you know four foot taller right now and they like it to where when they stand up they can see out you know even this time of year but then when they want to disappear they disappear they also bet in corn as well but I found that the mule deer seemed to like the the mylow a little bit better so as far as white tails moving into you know after the the crops are out you know they really like bedding in big open CRP field especially if they have terraces in them and we have terraces you know for you I'm sure you know what those are but they basically keep water from draining off of a field that has a little bit of slope to it that's not perfectly flat and so anytime you have natural terraces it of course it creates you know unglace in the in the land and so they're going to be back behind a terrace or in the bottom of a terrace because there's more there's more thick grass there than there would be on top so CRP

32:45fence lines any drainage is that you can thank any any thickets yeah we just don't have near as much brush is is you do an Iowa but yeah that's I'm basically trying to find any high point at all sometimes I'll do like an observation tree stand and look over an area knowing that I probably won't take a buck out of that tree stand it's just more just to find a way to get up off the ground for glassing purposes or I'll find you know I'll find something to climb up on whether it's an old windmill or or something like that yeah absolutely and so does that so basically it sounds to me like when you're when you're actually locating trying to locate these animals you're just trying to get as high as possible and glass as much as possible yes I'll start like this time of year and I'll I'll just cast a big wide net with trail cameras and they don't move much at all and and you're just hoping to be somewhat in a you know close to their bed where you can get a rent you know if all I

33:48need is one picture and that'll tell me like if I find a good mature buck that I want to target then at that point I'll pull a couple other cameras that are not producing and I'll bring you them in and I'll just surround that area and I'll try to figure out okay where's what's what's the closest spot to his bedding area yeah and then once I get that figured out then I find a vantage point and I do behind the glass scouting so I'll basically just keep as you can see narrowing in and then once I once I have a pattern not only with the camera but also with behind the glass watching it in the morning or in evening or multiple then that's when I try to figure out my ambush spot yeah and basically they're just sit and wait you know this time of year the crops are tall like I said so you're waiting on them to step out because most likely you're not going to you know spot and stock this time of year yeah so yeah yeah now the question becomes and let's stick on the white tails out there are they sticking pretty tight to where they're bedding throughout

34:48the entire day or are they actually moving in long ways to get to food and water and then back to bed um this time of year they don't move much at all okay they move you know they step out on the edge of the cornfield they may walk a few hundred yards to water and yeah I just don't they just don't travel I mean they travel more out here probably than they do where you're at but they still don't they don't they still don't travel a whole lot I feel like most of time a half a mile max that's probably more than than they're moving in your neck of the woods but out here it's flat enough that they may they may like say the corner of a cornfield and they need to drop into a draw and travel a little ways to get to a water source or something but they don't travel a lot they're lazy this time of year as you know they they are building up as much nutrients and and what not to get ready for the rut it's just around the corner they're getting ready to shed velvet in fact a few of them have already have oh really so anyway yeah I've seen I've seen a buck already

35:54like shed oh nice oh nice that would get me fired up and that seems and that seems early for it is for that typically it's it's definitely like first week is September at the earliest and I've already seen one hardhorn so yeah so had just out of a random curiosity when does your season start so September five is youth and then just after that I think the 12th or the 15th right around in there is when muzzle loader starts which we can archery hunt during that time we just have to wear orange yeah and that goes for a couple of weeks and then basically it's just archery season from you know early very late September or early October all the way through winter rifle season starts which is like the first week in December have you ever ran into a scenario where you had some deer holding velvet long enough to potentially hunt them with velvet oh yeah yes for sure yeah okay I don't just curious of that so what about the mule deer this time of year what's the

37:02what's the range in a western Kansas mule deer looking like yeah they they roam more than a white tail white tail is a home body they they like their pattern they like their couple of exit routes and they just stick to what they know a mule deer we see I might see a mule deer in a mylo field just in an open random crop field and and be able to hunt him in September but then in the rut he may be pushing does we we've honestly seen the same deer like eight to ten miles away and we've confirmed that because I've got friends you know that far south and you know we will share photos and talk and we're like holy cow that that mule deer was was pushing does down here in this area and you know it's hard to believe and some people don't understand it but they just they're more of a migratory animal than people realize yeah yeah yeah and so it becomes isn't is it possible to pattern a mule deer mule so a mule deer buck specifically

38:08this time of year yes I think they like to have a comfort zone when it comes to like where they're betting during the summertime and I think it's just food and water that's yeah I mean they're not moving much same deal they're they're storing nutrients for the rut and so once the crops come out or the velvet falls off they kind of become a different animal as you know it's mule deer and white till they just they they kind of go into a different mode of their their fall but you can pattern them to a point until it's time for them to decide you know what I'm I'm going to go move to a different area and I'm going to start sent check and you know this is my normal rutting area down you know five miles out the here whatever it is it's really weird yeah yeah I know you've already answered some of this but I want you to elaborate a little bit or on some of you you live in such I'm so jealous of the people who can hunt both right or who get to choose to whatever they want um talk to me a little bit about the similarities between a mule deer

39:14buck and a white tail buck and then also their differences um I could tell I could talk about a lot of differences okay let's hear it find similarities so the differences is a a white tail buck is very aggressive and he is going to stand his ground way more than a mule deer um and I'm not saying that a mule deer won't stand his ground because they will and if they see a buck approaching but if if so like for instance if I approach a white tail buck that's bedded with a doe and he's he knows that she's getting ready to breed and if I grunt at him say 80 yards away he's he may depending on if he feels like I'm at him in his bubble or not he's going to get up and he's going to come and he's going to stomp me off because he knows he's the king a mule deer if they see you know I use decoys a lot and and if they see a mule deer buck decoy at that 80 yards away

40:21as long as he doesn't feel like I'm a threat he's completely fine with it and if he does get up and feel like I'm a threat he's going to work to circle his does and he's going to take his whole herd away and I've actually seen that same behavior with elk as well sometimes they're they want to just keep their herd to themselves and they're they just want to go away they don't want confrontation as much yeah not saying they won't fight they just don't want to fight yeah a white tail they're they're mad at the world yeah and and it doesn't take much to make one mad and if I go challenge one 80% of the time he's going to come in and he's going to try to stomp me yeah so those are the big differences that I see um also a white tail they like to really take their one doe that they're in love with away from the rest of the herd and they want to be left alone a mule deer they want to gather as many deer as possible mostly those of course and they want to breed them all at the same

41:26time I've seen I've seen them hop from one to the next multiple times and a white tail they just seclude themselves you know they're just they just act completely different um I feel like a white tail will push away a mature white tail buck will push away a mature mule deer buck because I've seen you know because I have in living that area where they can both be running in the same area and I've seen it yeah a white tail buck won't he doesn't want anyone around at all yeah so if you've ever furnished a restaurant hotel or an office you know the trail five vendors five in voices five delivery windows but there's a better way to do this creating barrel contract is a business to business program that covers three brands creating barrel CB2 and creating kids with one account one order one delivery they've got durable plates and glasses contract grade furniture and lighting that looks custom that's built for the wear of busy space actually takes and the best part is you're not doing it alone a dedicated rep handles your project end to end from volume orders to design

42:28curation plus members get 20% off tax exempt checkout and flexible payment with no minimums learn more at cratonbarrel.com slash podcast that's create and barrel dot com slash podcast if your dog treats dinner like it needs a better chef check this out sundays for dogs is the food that gets tails wagging at mealtime sundays for dogs combines real meat with a gentle air drying process that locks in flavor and nutrition it looks like food not kibble in an independent taste test all 39 dogs preferred sundays chicken recipe to a premium kibble make the switch today at sundays for dogs.com and get 30% off your first order treat your best friend right and make it sundays for dogs so yeah yeah yeah one of the coolest things I've ever witnessed from a tree stand one year I had a the water came in early spring and flooded out this river bottom right the the crops were already in it the and it was too wet and the farmer just did not replant but it was fertilized

43:33which is you know they put the in hydro song before um then they fertilized it and then the rain came dude and we're talking about 10 foot high grass it was crazy so I climb up in this tree stand to where I can look over top of this sea of grass um and weeds and like thistle and just in gnarly and I watched a I was just glassing and I saw a bedded doe and then next to her a bedded a good bedded buck and so I got in the tree stand about two o'clock in the afternoon and the rest of that day all I watched was young bucks get downwind work their way up a white tail buck stand up like ears back posture drive them off and maybe even jump at them a little bit maybe chase them to turn around and come back to that bedded doe and he did that for like five straight hours so all day he was he was fighting off that and so I thought that was that was one of the coolest things I've ever seen and then he stood up I can't remember if I actually witnessed him breed her but wherever

44:39she went he went like and I was hoping she was gonna come towards me and but she ended up not doing that but um so with that said that that was cool to see when you're hunting mule deer talk to me a little bit about mule deer behavior during the rut so a lot of times how I find them is that they like to be in somewhat of an open area to where they can keep tabs on their their herd all the time they don't like to they don't like to have a lot of brokenness so like cliffy stuff they don't like tall crops they like to just know that they have they can see all their ladies and they know exactly where everybody's at so what I'm doing is of course I'm just covering ground because a lot of times especially in the in the basically all of November yeah I'm covering a bunch of ground and I'm finding just one mule deer I don't care if it's

45:41a doe or a buck because when you find one especially during that rut time you're just waiting for you know you're looking for the rest of the herd so like if you if you find one doe that that stands up and stretches and repositions and beds of course if they're all bedded you can cover a bunch of ground and you may not pick them out of a you know a cut cornfield or whatever they're bedding in and so I'm just looking for a deer and then I'm stopping I'm spending at least 30 minutes if not an hour with binoculars on a tripod standing in the back of my truck or on a hill or whatever vantage point I can get and I'm trying to find if there's a mature buck in there and if he's he's one that I'm I'm wanting to spend time on yeah so that's my tactic on mule deer is is just covering ground going from herd to herd trying to figure out if there's a buck that I want to target Gotcha and does that become difficult to get inside their bubble with a bow in the rut for a mule deer

46:48I mean so I've I caught the tail end of a mule deer rut I went and hunted South Dakota after the gun season I didn't fill my tag in the archery season so I went back during the after the gun season was over and I went chasing them again and I saw some rut behavior but I also know that when the sun was up came up they were on their feet a lot longer the bucks very rarely bedded down in that period of time and if they did bed down they would maybe just take a quick rest and then stand right back up and it just seemed like more deer were on their feet for longer periods of time throughout that that period how do you then creep in during that November time frame or during that rut time frame to get put yourself in a position to shoot them knowing that the terrain is flat knowing that there's going to be more eyes on you yeah it's it's a chest match I mean there's been times where I'll have I'll have a spot picked out that I know that I need to get

47:53to it could be a corner post it could be you know a little clump of grass or a yuck a plant or something like that and it might take me an hour to get there but then I'll be you know chin on the ground just waiting for the next move maybe they're going to get up and reposition and allow me you know maybe they're going to bed facing away at that point time yeah and then that'll allow me to slip in a little bit further and so it's basically you make your move you you go as far as you can and if it's not within range you're waiting for them to make the next move so that it allows you to do something different um I'm a big decoy guy I like to hand LD coils I use heads of decoys is specifically there's others out there um I get within 80 yards and I'm using a dodecoi because back to the comment that I made about if if you're approaching with a buck decoy I've seen more times than not where they're going to push that herd away from you if you have a buck decoy if you have a dodecoi they're thinking huh who's who's this new dough in the area

48:58I want to bring her into my herd I want to sit check her to see if there's something I'm missing here and so even if he stands up and sees you and doesn't come immediately I guarantee you it's in his mind and when when he decides it's ready he's ready he's going to eventually make his way over to you and I've even seen him get up get all of his dose up push the whole herd to me because that's how he's welcoming me into the herd so it's interesting how the herd behavior happens on Mule deer compared to a white tail situation where I'm taking a buck into challenge yeah just and I mean you only know that from being able to observe enough time saying did buck decoy is no good in this scenario where the only thing and time a year matters too right I mean like it's the right what is the Mule deer buck want to do he wants to breed well I don't want to knowing

50:02that he pushes his dose off to away from me the I want to use the the dodecoi yeah I have a situation sorry to interrupt you no go for it go for it at the end of last season aren't there's two seasons ago it was late season I hadn't filled my tag it was after rifle season and I went out and I just had like I think two days left in the archery season but they were still doing some some no I'm sorry this was a couple days before rifle season started and I felt pressure that I needed to get it done before rifle season started anyway a situation was happening where I was in a perfect situation I was out in the middle of a field there was like it was a cut crop field but there was trails through it that I knew that the deer were taking to kind of cut across field to get to a water hole anyway I would just out there in the middle of a field a little bit of cover but I knew I was in the right spot anyway I had the decoy with me that's what I was using as cover that's what I was using as my my way of being there anyway here comes a doe walking down the trail

51:06here comes a mature buck behind her for whatever reason I decided you know what I'm I want to I want a challenge of Mule deer today and I took a buck decoy out with me and had I had the doe decoy that deer would would be dead and he basically came up the doe stopped at 50 yards he was right behind her he ran up and nosed her away completely to take an alternate route the a detour all the way around me and I never got a shot because he just didn't want to he didn't want confrontation yeah if I would have had the doe decoy he would have they would have continued straight down the trail directly at me and I would have had to shoot him and self-defense basically just coming up to sent check probably you know yeah so yeah just I've had situations where I'm like why did I do that you know so yeah that's crazy man and I like the word confrontation that you used because you will of for Mule deer it sounds like you want to avoid it and for white tails it works it works for you

52:12I take advantage of their frustrations or their their testosterone but Mule deer they're they're just built different yeah for sure now how are you talk to walk us through the decoying process for a white tail buck if you love that one whether they're with a doe or without one sure with if they're with a doe it's it's almost a slam dunk because really as long as I always he doesn't yeah I thought yeah I would think the opposite um I'll tell you why because when so back to the story where you were sitting at tree stand when the wind was when when every deer you seen would approach that mature buck and doe downwind because they they were they were obviously cruising they obviously caught wind of a doe that was in he and they obviously circled with their nose in the wind walking straight to that doe and he that's what they do well when the the buck is

53:12on that downwind side of that doe at all times because he knows where the other bucks are approaching from well guess what I'm gonna do I'm gonna take a buck decoy and I'm gonna approach from the downwind side because he's expecting me and he's expecting to run off deer all day every day because that's what they do during the run they don't eat all they do is defend their territory they fight until it's time to breed and they breed and then they move on to the next one that's just their cycle so I'm gonna come in downwind and I'm gonna crawl as far as I can I'm gonna try to get in the bubble that I call it and their bubble it could be 80 yards I've seen I've seen a deer get so mad at 100 yards that they walk that full 100 yards to me and then they just they think they're just gonna run right back to their doe then I've seen one that they're like uh he's far enough away I feel comfortable even though I don't like it I'm not going to get up and go stop him off yeah so sometimes it takes me getting to 40 yards yeah but when I get there and I try different distances and

54:12I try to you know I'm grunting and I'm start wheezing with the with the decoy up on my way in yeah and until it trips them and then ears are laid back and they're coming to run me off so that's I just I just keep heckling them until they just can't handle it so how do you manage keeping that decoy up drawing back when they start to come and then executing the shot how do you make all that work so I've they they make bow mounted the decoy that I run can be mounted to the bow okay I don't like doing that because the western Kansas winds can get pretty hectic and trying to shoot even at 20 yards with a bow jump it all over the place is not good so what I've done is I've developed my own little stake system where you can slide that in clamp it down and then just push

55:17it in the ground with like a steel rod basically and it's it's like a it's like a monopod basically you just stick in the ground anyway I'll stick that in the ground and if it's nasty enough wind I'll kind of try to support it with with my hand until I'm ready to draw or whatever but hopefully it's decent enough wind that I can still be behind it so hands free both hands on the bow I'm basically using it as a ground line at that point in time it's got you know it's up about the same natural height as a deer would be hopefully there's a little bit of taller grass to where it kind of blends everything like a deer naturally would be standing in taller grass yeah but I'm basically just my my head level is below the back line of of what the buck back line would be and I'm just hunkered down underneath that thing and I'm sticking in the ground I'm hands free I'm grunting I'm start wheezing I'm doing everything I can to try to cook something up to my direction yeah

56:18kitchen and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters that's why trade pros trust fiber cement party backer board to keep tile firmly in place resist cracking and help block moisture chosen over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms party backer board what the best build on shop now at participating home depot lows and floor into core stores for more information visit jameshardy.com slash hardy backer shop the sirwin Williams Labor Day sale and get 35% off paints and stains August 28th through September 9th whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior we've got the colors to bring your vision to life and with delivery getting everything to your door is easier than ever shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood Sherwin Williams store click the banner to learn more retail sales only some exclusions apply see store for details delivery available on qualifying orders knowing that deer use their nose to try to get down

57:21wind you potentially even yet how do you have to move when when are these bucks straight lining you like are they coming in in straight line to get you off or are they trying to like half circle you to also get behind you as well most of the time they're going to come straight in because they just their goal is to get you out of there yeah and they know that it's a long ways around to get your wind and they're putting you in between him and the doe and he doesn't want that he wants to stay on between us yeah and so he's most times he's not going down to win I mean he may try to like barely angle around like of course he's going to want to try to get our my wind eventually and I think they they they definitely will eventually but when they try to circle even if I decide I'm not going to shoot a deer you know because I this has happened multiple times on bucks that I just didn't care to shoot they will come within 10 or 15 yards and they will circle downwind and

58:26they'll just I mean they'll be riding your lap the whole time but they will go to your downwind side yeah okay okay and then when it comes to the like decoying how are like what happens if a doe sees you first like at the doe stands up do they get spooked with a with another buck there no no no there's been there you have your one-off times where a doe will act funny but it's back to they're so used to the the rut activity and other bucks approaching they're so used to that they they see it all day every day during the rut they just they think they pay no attention yeah they I've seen them stand up feed reposition bed and and all wind all while I'm within 40 yards yeah okay that's interesting and so talk to me a little bit in maybe both those scenarios with a

59:31a mule deer doe and a white tail buck what are what are some no-nose when you're trying to use a a mobile decoy to not only get yourself closer to them but like the patience and all that stuff um it's if they happen to catch you while you're going in and you haven't gotten the decoy up hmm don't be abrupt with it don't don't just throw it up unnaturally um sometimes it's better to just hit the ground get your chin on the ground try to let them dismiss you if they happen to turn their head and start walking away a little bit a little bit nervous I have ease that decoy up as absolute slow as I can and a lot of times they kind of turn around and they're like huh like that's what was happening and a lot of times they'll come back to you and just kind of start you know looking like those do and try to figure out what's going on and most of the time they're going to dismiss you um mule deer the does a lot of times they just accept you as part of the herd sometimes

1:00:39you'll have like a young buck that'll try to circle downwind and I think I think with a mule deer dodecoi that's probably my biggest concern is if a lot of times there's going to be a young buck with the herd and of course he's going to be staying far enough away not to get his tail whipped but he's going to be around and he's going to try to get you know what leftovers he can sounds funny that way but he'll he'll always just be just far enough just far enough away but just close enough to kind of see what's going on and so you're always going to have those little pesky young bucks that kind of try to come come in down wind and sent check that dodecoi and they're going to blow they're going to jump they're going to once they get your wind they're going to create a little bit of a scene and so you that's where I always go back to you know making sure that my release is clicked on my de-loop and I'm ready that doe is that decoy is stuck in the ground on my stake that I'm telling you about and I'm ready to basically fold draw in case that buck does stand up sometimes you can just shoot him right there you know if you're close enough if they're not close enough you're just praying

1:01:44that that whole herd doesn't get up and get freaked out enough about the reaction that the little buck has that it's going to take the whole herd away for a little bit yeah but if that happens I've let them kind of reset give it an hour or two slip in a different angle and you're back in the game because they just think you're another deer yeah man that's an early that you've had that much success with with that and have found that little niche that works does decoy does decoying work the same outside of the rut like either a late season or early season for you as well as as far as bringing them in or just get using a decoy to get close enough whatever that may be to get within a shot I think that it would be very beneficial I know it's very beneficial to have that doe decoy with you like on Mule deer specifically yeah to have that doe decoy with you even this time of year when it's you know say first the season in September just having it with you

1:02:46and just kind of having your hand to wear like if you're walking in it say say you know that there's a buck that's normally stepping out on the corner of this field and say there could be a doe or two that could blow or ruin the party or whatever I'm gonna just have that decoy with me to where if I can just hit a knee and just kind of raise that thing up it just kind of calms everybody down okay you know it just they hear things and a lot of times deer don't know what noises are and they're just gonna investigate and if they see that there's another deer they're gonna dismiss the whole deal yeah so yeah okay very interesting man like I I feel like the next time I go out west I want to push I want to push my hunts back from early October to right before the gun season and maybe give this decoying thing a try because I've heard a lot you're not the first guy who's told me or has has figured some of this stuff out but it's very it's very intriguing to me to it's basically

1:03:49using their weaknesses against them and not just trying to be as quiet as possible and sneak up on you know when they're in the shade or something like that you know yeah and and decoying is not for everybody some people may not want to use that tactic or feel right about using that tactic or whatever I mean everyone's got their own way of hunting and if you want to just be an engine sneak in between their ears you know and wait for them to stand up like that's that's really cool too you know no big deal yeah absolutely absolutely um what what kind of shot range do you expect every single year or what are you prepared for I'm prepared for anything because out west you have wide open spaces and I'm I practice at long ranges all the time I have 120 yards in my backyard that's protected with trees and you know I'm practicing at long range thinking that if I get if I have to take a shot that's half that far

1:04:5060 or whatever I feel really good about it and I mean that like I spend so much time dialing in my equipment I have all my own bow equipment oppressed I have you know I build my own arrows and I'm doing everything to the infinity degree to make sure that my accuracy is first of foremost and so that that's how I prepare I expect to take close close shots then like with this decoy situation both white tail end wheel deer most of my shots are inside 20 woof and yeah I mean it's if it's gonna happen it happens like it's awesome dude that's your creation enough yeah last year the mule deer that I shot ended up being 30 but I had him dead derides I knew that as soon as he stood up like I knew the exact yardage because I was able to range him you know and and antler while he was laying in the Milo field and as soon as he stood up I had my you know pen already there ready to go so I didn't give him a whole lot of time yeah yeah

1:05:53so the last time we talked I think this was in the wake of you killing a really big white tail buck back in the day and I think you were talking about the importance of pivots at this point and a pivot being like at some point throughout the course of a year the deer kind of gravitate to these these pivot fields is that still the case um so like irrigation yeah I mean irrigation is important this time here because of course spring sprinklers are running throughout the summer um water is is a rare resource and so of course it attracts the animals and so you know I'm I'm looking and I have a lot of cameras around pivots of course you got to stay away you know so they're not getting so can wet all the time but like on the edges of those fields you know if there happens to be a drainage of that that you know touches like say the corner of the field is a natural

1:06:56drainage with some nice prairie grass or whatever and it's a natural natural natural funnel out of that field then that's a good spot for a trail camera setup right but as soon as those crop fields are cut the pivots really don't I mean they shut off and it's it's just another field yeah so yeah okay interesting um what else do we need to know about plant like the the crossover area and and the style of hunt that you use have you ever been in a scenario where you're hunting mule deer out of a tree stand um I encountered really good mule deer out of a tree stand I don't tree stand hunt that much anymore okay and I'll tell you why because I used to only tree stand hunt even though we don't have that many trees I was able to find drainage is that that would have a few trees and of course you're going to find deer because there's just white tails especially love trees and oranges and water and creeks and whatnot so anytime you find those even out here

1:08:00there's going to be deer but most of the time your pictures are going to be at night most of the time out here the mature bucks are not going to be hanging out with the the the the herds mature bucks are pretty reclusive until the rut and then all of a sudden they they start coming in and spend a little more time where the herds are at especially the doe groups the doe bedding areas um when I used to tree stand hunt I was successful but I was shooting bucks that weren't the much the most mature bucks and I was shooting the bucks that were cruising more than the mature bucks yeah of course you're going to have a two and three year old roll through because they don't have they got kicked off of that buck or that buck and so they're off to the next and you know I'm getting shots at good bucks but not great bucks and so when I started realizing that those most mature bucks were out away from all the trees they've taken that doe out away from all those drainage is out

1:09:04into the middle of a field or into a pasture into a CRP field or whatever and when I decided I would hunt morph with my glass or by covering ground you know at a vehicle jumping up on a vantage point in glassing um I started my my big buck harvest success percentage went way up yeah because I was going to the mature bucks I would I would find them and I would go to them with the decoy or sneak in or whatever so I started shooting those five six seven year old bucks consistently once I kind of changed away from tree stands not saying that I don't love tree stand hunting because to be honest with you I enjoy sitting in nature and the piece of it and there's something awesome about it yeah but as far as shooting the most mature bucks a lot of times you and I or or all of us really don't have as much time to dedicate the whole month in November for the opportunity for that

1:10:08one or two times that big six year old might walk by between those I have to take advantage of my wheat yeah and so I'm going to those you know yeah that makes a lot of sense uh one of the last questions I have for you here today is talk to me a little bit about why you love western Kansas as a as a hunting destination and where you live well it's wide open and I like it because it's not looked at as a premiere hunting area yeah and I will tell you it's not for everybody because there's been a lot of people that come out here and they get frustrated quickly because the deer numbers are not here mm-hmm it's hard to find them it's hard to find mature deer yeah and because of me living here all my life knowing exactly the secrets and the little things that that you know you you need to

1:11:13have in order to experience yes the experience for sure um for someone out of state or or out of area to come here and try to dedicate five or seven days and think they're gonna just see mature buck left and right it's not happening yeah you just it it might take me all year with trail cameras to locate a deer that I'm interested in and in fact last year until the day that I killed my mule deer which I never knew about until the rut I didn't have a deer to go after and I had been at it since July I mean it's not easy it's tough so I love it because of that Dan because it's it's not you know I feel like when I find him a true buck he's in trouble and that's gonna sound a little arrogant but I just know their characteristics and I know their tendencies and once I find him I feel like 80% of the battle is won already yeah well especially if you've had the success that

1:12:13you've had over the course of the years where you've really cultivated your strategy and it started paying dividends for you right and so why not keep doing it and so you know everybody you know some guys biggest hurdle might be the amount of time it takes to sit in a tree others the time the time it takes to locate others the you know what buck should I shoot you know maybe it's not a time thing it's a decision thing so yeah um I don't know I just always find that that part of the United States really interesting man like it's so cool for me like western South Dakota any like South Dakota western South Dakota western Nebraska and the cool part about this is I don't know about I've never been to the area where you live but out in western Nebraska there's all this flat Nebraska ground and then all of a sudden you'll come over this hill and it's just like a giant cliff drops off do you do you have that kind of stuff where you're at occasionally yeah there are

1:13:18some rugged pastures in areas I mean there there are some limestone cut nasty you know yeah places in the earth where mother nature cut just a nasty trail through you know yes but they're not they're few and far between gotcha okay cool cool well man I'm I always look forward to seeing what you shoot every year and I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to hop on and and catch up and chat with us man so good luck this upcoming upcoming season in I really appreciate it yeah I always enjoy chatting with you Dan and yeah don't be a stranger yeah absolutely pro football is back and so our predictions trade yours on CalShi America's number one prediction market platform new England is currently trading at 39% to beat Seattle meaning a hundred dollar trade pays out two hundred forty six dollars if they win download CalShi use code hard to get twenty dollars when you trade twenty KALS HI CalShi trade on anything 18 plus only restrictions

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1:16:30moisture chosen over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms party backer board what the best build on shop now at participating home depot lows and floor into core stores for more information visit jameshardy.com slash hardy backer shop the sirwin Williams Labor Day Sale and get 35 percent off paints and stains August 28th through September 9th whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior we've got the colors to bring your vision to life and with delivery getting everything to your door is easier than ever shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood sirwin Williams store click the banner to learn more retail sales only some exclusions apply see store for details delivery available on qualifying orders booking a verbo vacation rental means you get verbo care in 24 seven life support verified reviews from real guests and top rated homes with the love by guest filter i just booked my verbo because there was a sweet line french we all have our reasons if you know you verbo term supply see verbo.com slash

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